Singapore to buy 4 F-35 fighter jets with option for 8 more; price comparable to F-15SG
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/f35-fighter-jets-mindef-singapore-air-force-buy-4-budget-2019-11300934(Updated: )
Ricky Lim
If we buy F35s, will we engage in a dogfight?
The answer is, the chances are very slim, why?
(1) We have very powerful radar - that can detect any threat few hundred km away and can track more than 1,000 over targets.
This mean the moment if Malaysia airforce scramble their fighter planes - our radar can detect them.
(2) Our air defense can shoot their fighter planes more than 100 over km away with long range missiles - don't even need to scramble our F35s or F15SG to dogfight with them.
(3) If we choose to use our F35s or F15SGs to shoot their fighter planes down - we have plenty of time to scramble our 2 advanced fighters - when they are few hundred km away.
(4) If our F35s is chosen to engage the Malaysia fighter planes - their fighter planes will not be able to detect our F35 stealth planes when it is within our firing range - whereas our F35 advanced sensors and radar will have picked up theirs - and will have fire off our "beyond visual range missiles" - and kill them off before they can even come close to do a dogfight.
(5) If our F15SGs is chosen to engage the Malaysia fighter planes - our advanced radar from the ground, from satellite and from our AWACs or from our drones - will have provided advanced information of the location of the Malaysia fighter planes and the moment they come into our F15SGs radar - the F15SGs can fire off our "beyond visual range missiles" - and kill them off before they can even come close to do a dogfight.
Where are the Malaysia airbases and what aircraft do they have :-
(1) Butterworth airbase - house the 8 FA18
(2) Gong Kedak airbase - house the 18 SU30MKM (only 4 flying) - but assume the rest can be repair and become operational though not likely
(3) Kuantan airbase - house the decommision 10 MiG-29s
(4) Labuan airbase - house the 28 BAE Hawk
The moments these aircraft scramble and come towards us - our radar will have easily pick them out - and we can counter strike them.
So wonder where is the issue of "dogfight" --- when they have no chance to come near us.
The answer is, the chances are very slim, why?
(1) We have very powerful radar - that can detect any threat few hundred km away and can track more than 1,000 over targets.
This mean the moment if Malaysia airforce scramble their fighter planes - our radar can detect them.
(2) Our air defense can shoot their fighter planes more than 100 over km away with long range missiles - don't even need to scramble our F35s or F15SG to dogfight with them.
(3) If we choose to use our F35s or F15SGs to shoot their fighter planes down - we have plenty of time to scramble our 2 advanced fighters - when they are few hundred km away.
(4) If our F35s is chosen to engage the Malaysia fighter planes - their fighter planes will not be able to detect our F35 stealth planes when it is within our firing range - whereas our F35 advanced sensors and radar will have picked up theirs - and will have fire off our "beyond visual range missiles" - and kill them off before they can even come close to do a dogfight.
(5) If our F15SGs is chosen to engage the Malaysia fighter planes - our advanced radar from the ground, from satellite and from our AWACs or from our drones - will have provided advanced information of the location of the Malaysia fighter planes and the moment they come into our F15SGs radar - the F15SGs can fire off our "beyond visual range missiles" - and kill them off before they can even come close to do a dogfight.
Where are the Malaysia airbases and what aircraft do they have :-
(1) Butterworth airbase - house the 8 FA18
(2) Gong Kedak airbase - house the 18 SU30MKM (only 4 flying) - but assume the rest can be repair and become operational though not likely
(3) Kuantan airbase - house the decommision 10 MiG-29s
(4) Labuan airbase - house the 28 BAE Hawk
The moments these aircraft scramble and come towards us - our radar will have easily pick them out - and we can counter strike them.
So wonder where is the issue of "dogfight" --- when they have no chance to come near us.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
And none of Malaysia's FA18, SU30, MiG29 or BAE Hawk and non of their air-defense like rapier or other short range missile system - can lock radar on our F35s --- and no way they can shoot our F35s down.
Malaysia radar can't even detect our F35s flying around them.
But our F35s can lock radar on all their fighter planes and air defense - and shoot them down.
The game changers is - the F35s don't even have to do the job itself when they detect the Malaysia planes with advanced sensors and radar - as it can relay the pinpoint information to our F15SGs, F16C/D, our air defense (many advanced long range missiles) - to shoot the Malaysia planes down.
Where is the need to dogfight --- so archaic.
Malaysia radar can't even detect our F35s flying around them.
But our F35s can lock radar on all their fighter planes and air defense - and shoot them down.
The game changers is - the F35s don't even have to do the job itself when they detect the Malaysia planes with advanced sensors and radar - as it can relay the pinpoint information to our F15SGs, F16C/D, our air defense (many advanced long range missiles) - to shoot the Malaysia planes down.
Where is the need to dogfight --- so archaic.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
Israel Air Force Chief Sings F-35's Praises
"It's more than just an aircraft. It will transform the entire service into a much more effective, much more lethal force," Eshel said.
"We are not adapting the F-35 to the IAF. That would be a mistake. Rather, we're adapting the IAF to the F-35. We'll learn how to do this so that all of the force will rise to the fifth generation," he said.
Israel's top air force officer said he was undeterred by criticism directed at the F-35 program, and that the return on investment was well worth the cost.
"There's a lot of criticism that this doesn't work and that doesn't work. But whoever has a smart phone knows that software changes all the time. This is a smart plane, and there will be different upgrades and versions. … What's important is that it will know how to operate in places that nothing else can, with a very high level of effectiveness across the spectrum of threats and operational scenarios."
In an address devoted to the singular attributes of airpower, Eshel said the F-35 embodied flexibility, speed, agility and survivability that has become a central element of Israeli force strength. "It's a revolution; far better than anything we have and anything that is flying in this region," he said.
Israel's F-35 Adir force, said North, provides strategic deterrence as well as the ability to enjoy freedom of movement not provided by the very best of fourth-generation aircraft. "The Adir uses stealth to get very close and to enable operational decisions as to whether to engage or disengage."
"It's more than just an aircraft. It will transform the entire service into a much more effective, much more lethal force," Eshel said.
"We are not adapting the F-35 to the IAF. That would be a mistake. Rather, we're adapting the IAF to the F-35. We'll learn how to do this so that all of the force will rise to the fifth generation," he said.
Israel's top air force officer said he was undeterred by criticism directed at the F-35 program, and that the return on investment was well worth the cost.
"There's a lot of criticism that this doesn't work and that doesn't work. But whoever has a smart phone knows that software changes all the time. This is a smart plane, and there will be different upgrades and versions. … What's important is that it will know how to operate in places that nothing else can, with a very high level of effectiveness across the spectrum of threats and operational scenarios."
In an address devoted to the singular attributes of airpower, Eshel said the F-35 embodied flexibility, speed, agility and survivability that has become a central element of Israeli force strength. "It's a revolution; far better than anything we have and anything that is flying in this region," he said.
Israel's F-35 Adir force, said North, provides strategic deterrence as well as the ability to enjoy freedom of movement not provided by the very best of fourth-generation aircraft. "The Adir uses stealth to get very close and to enable operational decisions as to whether to engage or disengage."
Jm Chow
Singapore spend BILLIONS on buying the F-35 ..in "developing a capable Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) to keep Singaporeans safe...." said DM Ng.
Is this accurate ?
No. It is just a spin to fool us.
Buying the F-35, a seriously flawed jet fighter..... is not keeping Singaporeans safe. The US Air Force has NOT deployed the F-35 to war zones (like Iraq or Syria)...because it cannot win dog fights..it is too heavy, it is under power...it is poorly designed.
Example:
If Singapore is under invasion by one of our neighbours,.... the invading fighter jets have entered our air space... we have to scrambled the F-35 quickly... to stop the invading jets.
Can the F-35 win the dog fights against the enemy jets ?
NO.
It is utter folly... ...showing that Singapore has bowed to US strong pressure...to buy the F-35 against better judgement.
Is this accurate ?
No. It is just a spin to fool us.
Buying the F-35, a seriously flawed jet fighter..... is not keeping Singaporeans safe. The US Air Force has NOT deployed the F-35 to war zones (like Iraq or Syria)...because it cannot win dog fights..it is too heavy, it is under power...it is poorly designed.
Example:
If Singapore is under invasion by one of our neighbours,.... the invading fighter jets have entered our air space... we have to scrambled the F-35 quickly... to stop the invading jets.
Can the F-35 win the dog fights against the enemy jets ?
NO.
It is utter folly... ...showing that Singapore has bowed to US strong pressure...to buy the F-35 against better judgement.
Bawihtei Bawihtei
Your knowledge is 5 years too late. The F-35 got IOC already, with Block 3F software. Stop regurgitating old news to prove ur point.
Chee Bah Lau
You're way too outdated.
Nowadays, if you're spoted on radar you're already almost dead. No need to dogfight...
Nowadays, if you're spoted on radar you're already almost dead. No need to dogfight...
Sharil Bin Saharudin
The idea is to prevent a war, not to fight in one if we can. We may not be able to stop the likes of mahdey from whining and stirring sh*t against us but with military superiority thats about the worst they can do to us.
Jm Chow
Bawihtei Bawihtei
You said: "Your knowledge is 5 years too late. "
Is that so?
Which battle field, has the F-35 been deployed ... in Syria, ...in Afghanistan...to fight front line air battle ?
NONE...NONE.
You are being brainwashed...into refusing to accept reality and FACTS.
You said: "Your knowledge is 5 years too late. "
Is that so?
Which battle field, has the F-35 been deployed ... in Syria, ...in Afghanistan...to fight front line air battle ?
NONE...NONE.
You are being brainwashed...into refusing to accept reality and FACTS.
Jm Chow
Quakie Memes Alright
You said: "Wdym by dogfights? U do know that now a days is just trading missiles?"
Are you saying, with missiles, we don't need fighter jet (F-35) anymore ?
Then, WHY buy the F-35.... why spend billions of dollars to buy the useless flawed F-35 jet fighters...!!!
You don't make sense.
Ha ha ha...
You said: "Wdym by dogfights? U do know that now a days is just trading missiles?"
Are you saying, with missiles, we don't need fighter jet (F-35) anymore ?
Then, WHY buy the F-35.... why spend billions of dollars to buy the useless flawed F-35 jet fighters...!!!
You don't make sense.
Ha ha ha...
Jm Chow
Chee Bah Lau
Ya... you are talking stealth.
Assuming stealth is fool proof (in real life it is NOT), then
what happened ...if the enemy jets are also with stealth...and are entering our airspace....and will destroy our F-35 and military airfields in minutes... We have no alternative but to send the F-35 to fight them..
Do we need a jet fighter that can win air battle ?
.
Ya... you are talking stealth.
Assuming stealth is fool proof (in real life it is NOT), then
what happened ...if the enemy jets are also with stealth...and are entering our airspace....and will destroy our F-35 and military airfields in minutes... We have no alternative but to send the F-35 to fight them..
Do we need a jet fighter that can win air battle ?
.
Jm Chow
Sharil Bin Saharudin
With neighbours like Pakistan and India, I am sure they too wanted to prevent war...but good neighbours can become bad ones...
Ukraine is another example.
In real life, it is foolish to expect we can prevent neighbour from invading us...UNLESS we have good war machines (including jet fighters that can win air battle)...we can NEVER deter ambitious mad leaders to do the mad thing.
With neighbours like Pakistan and India, I am sure they too wanted to prevent war...but good neighbours can become bad ones...
Ukraine is another example.
In real life, it is foolish to expect we can prevent neighbour from invading us...UNLESS we have good war machines (including jet fighters that can win air battle)...we can NEVER deter ambitious mad leaders to do the mad thing.
Jm Chow
用李
I read it, repeatedly read it.
The fact is..
the F-35 has been tested, re-tested and again teated...by the US Air Force for the last 10 years ..since the first F-35 was delivered (prior to being certified as combat ready )
Why is the US Air Force NOT deploying the F-35 to frontline battle-field duties ..it is still using the F-16 in Syria ?
Why?
Because .. the US Air Force has conducted tests , repeated tests...and concluded that the F-35 is flawed and is not able to do battle with other 5-G fighter jets.
What type of tests SAF can do now...which the US Air force had not do before ?
NONE.
Buying only four units first (for testing) and later to buy the rest 8 is a spin... to fool us.
I read it, repeatedly read it.
The fact is..
the F-35 has been tested, re-tested and again teated...by the US Air Force for the last 10 years ..since the first F-35 was delivered (prior to being certified as combat ready )
Why is the US Air Force NOT deploying the F-35 to frontline battle-field duties ..it is still using the F-16 in Syria ?
Why?
Because .. the US Air Force has conducted tests , repeated tests...and concluded that the F-35 is flawed and is not able to do battle with other 5-G fighter jets.
What type of tests SAF can do now...which the US Air force had not do before ?
NONE.
Buying only four units first (for testing) and later to buy the rest 8 is a spin... to fool us.
Uuthyam Dass
Jm Chow f35 is a new combat aircraft. With sleath cabaplity america wont even tell u if its engaged in confratation..first u cant shooot some thing u cant aim...plus we still have over 50 f16 and many other assets
Like · Reply · 1h
Jm Chow
Bawihtei Bawihtei
You said: "Your knowledge is 5 years too late. "
Is that so?
Which battle field, has the F-35 been deployed ... in Syria, ...in Afghanistan...to fight front line air battle ?
NONE...NONE.
You are being brainwashed...into refusing to accept reality and FACTS.
You said: "Your knowledge is 5 years too late. "
Is that so?
Which battle field, has the F-35 been deployed ... in Syria, ...in Afghanistan...to fight front line air battle ?
NONE...NONE.
You are being brainwashed...into refusing to accept reality and FACTS.
Jm Chow
Quakie Memes Alright
You said: "Wdym by dogfights? U do know that now a days is just trading missiles?"
Are you saying, with missiles, we don't need fighter jet (F-35) anymore ?
Then, WHY buy the F-35.... why spend billions of dollars to buy the useless flawed F-35 jet fighters...!!!
You don't make sense.
Ha ha ha...
You said: "Wdym by dogfights? U do know that now a days is just trading missiles?"
Are you saying, with missiles, we don't need fighter jet (F-35) anymore ?
Then, WHY buy the F-35.... why spend billions of dollars to buy the useless flawed F-35 jet fighters...!!!
You don't make sense.
Ha ha ha...
Jm Chow
Chee Bah Lau
Ya... you are talking stealth.
Assuming stealth is fool proof (in real life it is NOT), then
what happened ...if the enemy jets are also with stealth...and are entering our airspace....and will destroy our F-35 and military airfields in minutes... We have no alternative but to send the F-35 to fight them..
Do we need a jet fighter that can win air battle ?
.
Ya... you are talking stealth.
Assuming stealth is fool proof (in real life it is NOT), then
what happened ...if the enemy jets are also with stealth...and are entering our airspace....and will destroy our F-35 and military airfields in minutes... We have no alternative but to send the F-35 to fight them..
Do we need a jet fighter that can win air battle ?
.
Jm Chow
Sharil Bin Saharudin
With neighbours like Pakistan and India, I am sure they too wanted to prevent war...but good neighbours can become bad ones...
Ukraine is another example.
In real life, it is foolish to expect we can prevent neighbour from invading us...UNLESS we have good war machines (including jet fighters that can win air battle)...we can NEVER deter ambitious mad leaders to do the mad thing.
With neighbours like Pakistan and India, I am sure they too wanted to prevent war...but good neighbours can become bad ones...
Ukraine is another example.
In real life, it is foolish to expect we can prevent neighbour from invading us...UNLESS we have good war machines (including jet fighters that can win air battle)...we can NEVER deter ambitious mad leaders to do the mad thing.
Jm Chow
用李
I read it, repeatedly read it.
The fact is..
the F-35 has been tested, re-tested and again teated...by the US Air Force for the last 10 years ..since the first F-35 was delivered (prior to being certified as combat ready )
Why is the US Air Force NOT deploying the F-35 to frontline battle-field duties ..it is still using the F-16 in Syria ?
Why?
Because .. the US Air Force has conducted tests , repeated tests...and concluded that the F-35 is flawed and is not able to do battle with other 5-G fighter jets.
What type of tests SAF can do now...which the US Air force had not do before ?
NONE.
Buying only four units first (for testing) and later to buy the rest 8 is a spin... to fool us.
I read it, repeatedly read it.
The fact is..
the F-35 has been tested, re-tested and again teated...by the US Air Force for the last 10 years ..since the first F-35 was delivered (prior to being certified as combat ready )
Why is the US Air Force NOT deploying the F-35 to frontline battle-field duties ..it is still using the F-16 in Syria ?
Why?
Because .. the US Air Force has conducted tests , repeated tests...and concluded that the F-35 is flawed and is not able to do battle with other 5-G fighter jets.
What type of tests SAF can do now...which the US Air force had not do before ?
NONE.
Buying only four units first (for testing) and later to buy the rest 8 is a spin... to fool us.
Uuthyam Dass
Jm Chow f35 is a new combat aircraft. With sleath cabaplity america wont even tell u if its engaged in confratation..first u cant shooot some thing u cant aim...plus we still have over 50 f16 and many other assets
Jm Chow
uthyam Dass
If it is indeed a combat aircraft, then it MUST be able win dog fights.
It CAN'T.
What is the use of buying a jet fighter that lost dog fights to the old F-16 ???
Tell me.
A very bad decision...especially the poor people are forced to pay higher taxes (GST)...in order to pay for the purchases
Why raise the GST to 9% ...to raise money for buying this useless jet fighter.
It is expensive and we don't have the money to buy this very expensive flawed jet fighter.
A good leader buy only good fighter jet without raising taxes...like what the previous leaders had done before.
If it is indeed a combat aircraft, then it MUST be able win dog fights.
It CAN'T.
What is the use of buying a jet fighter that lost dog fights to the old F-16 ???
Tell me.
A very bad decision...especially the poor people are forced to pay higher taxes (GST)...in order to pay for the purchases
Why raise the GST to 9% ...to raise money for buying this useless jet fighter.
It is expensive and we don't have the money to buy this very expensive flawed jet fighter.
A good leader buy only good fighter jet without raising taxes...like what the previous leaders had done before.
Sharil Bin Saharudin
Jm Chow Which reinforces my point. As long as we have military superiority, all they can do is bark, whine, complain and the show of flag gestures. They may even react via economic means. Thats the worst they can do.
However, once they out-gunned us, they will shoot first then talk later at our capitulation.
However, once they out-gunned us, they will shoot first then talk later at our capitulation.
Sundar Kannan
First time I agree with you...why not the exact clone from China for much cheaper. Also, we really dont do a lot of sorties and engagements so China planes can last 30 days, that's all we need. Thanks Paki-Ching troll
Sharil Bin Saharudin
Yes go for it. For our peace of mind, while likes of Mahdey go around inciting their people against SG.
Chee Siong Tan
Why just only 4 . Buy 12 to show off to Asian country. Singapore is Rich to maintence the F35 toy.
Joe Joe Bing
Technical comparison took 5 years?
Buy 4 aircraft for "testing"? If I buy a car or a fleet of cars, the manufacturer gives me 1 for testing for free.
What were the other options and why were they dropped? If it is so secret, why publish these news at all?
Buy 4 aircraft for "testing"? If I buy a car or a fleet of cars, the manufacturer gives me 1 for testing for free.
What were the other options and why were they dropped? If it is so secret, why publish these news at all?
Jack Sparroww
Someone was trying to get rid of their underperforming gadgets, and found the stooge who was so happy to buy 12 of these junk on Black Friday.
Stooge: Mr Someone also said that he was greatly appreciative of my decision.
Stooge: Mr Someone also said that he was greatly appreciative of my decision.
Like · Reply · 19m
Eddie Lim
congrats, US only sell F-35 to very strong allied country like Japan, south korea... we are the 3rd asia country to have it....even taiwan wanted f35 badly but US said no to taiwan. Cheers!
Like · Reply · 46m
Sundar Kannan
excatly dude...I think you are real Singaporean. Must be proud that they dont consider us Chinese lackeys and independant else they will never sell this 5th Gen aircraft which has extraofianary capabilities. Maybe we can build from here as a strong non-ching non-racist inclusive nation
Reply · 12h
Eddie Lim
Sundar Kannan yup, we are not anti-china and hope US-Sino relationship is good.... but if war breaks out between US and china, then as a strong allied country of US, our F35 will he called upon to help US fight China Su35 and even J20 in the vast south china sea where our F35 will be most suitable. F35 at the moment is an advantage over Su35 not in dogfight, but before SU35 can detect F35, they are already shot down by F35... imagine this, when japan and korea scramble their F16 and F35 to intercept china Su35/J20 whatever jets they have which by then all jets from all sides are very close and F35 may not be at an advantage, but out of sudden Sg F35 flew from nowhere and shot down all the china jets in the sky from a distant... :)
Reply · 4h
Pher Kim Huat
Ricky Lim, well said and again thanks for your explicit explanation.
This is a timely announcement by our well respected defence minister in Dr Ng to buy the F35 when the vintage Old M from the north again re-start his outdated "vintage Proton engine" to repeat those "morally wrong" statements.
Our capable, firm and kind Dr Ng is now preparing or "prescribing" the "correct & strong F35 antibiotics" to counter those "toxic gas or fluid" released by the poisonous Dr M from Putrajaya.
Though both are medical doctors, we can see the distinct difference. As a qualified surgeon, Dr Ng could have been much better off to be a sugeon as his profession but choose to sacrifice for S'pore with such a heavy responsibility as a defence minister while in contrast, vintage Dr M is just "wayang wayang" with his country and deceiving his own ordinary people as a "borrowed time PM.
This is a timely announcement by our well respected defence minister in Dr Ng to buy the F35 when the vintage Old M from the north again re-start his outdated "vintage Proton engine" to repeat those "morally wrong" statements.
Our capable, firm and kind Dr Ng is now preparing or "prescribing" the "correct & strong F35 antibiotics" to counter those "toxic gas or fluid" released by the poisonous Dr M from Putrajaya.
Though both are medical doctors, we can see the distinct difference. As a qualified surgeon, Dr Ng could have been much better off to be a sugeon as his profession but choose to sacrifice for S'pore with such a heavy responsibility as a defence minister while in contrast, vintage Dr M is just "wayang wayang" with his country and deceiving his own ordinary people as a "borrowed time PM.
Sundar Kannan
Why has not the real snake not woken from his grave...interesting. He would have bought 1/2 the clones from China and then started manufacturing replacement parts every 30 days:)
Reply · 12h
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