Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-malaysia-1962-water-agreement-dispute-price-mfa-11339986
(Updated: )
Ricky Lim
Singapore notes Malaysian Foreign Minister Saifuddin Abdullah’s comments in the Malaysian Parliament on 12 March 2019 that “if they (Singapore) do not want to negotiate, we (Malaysia) should bring this to international arbitration”. Prime Minister Mahathir had also said earlier on 3 March 2019 that Singapore does not want to go to the “world court”, ostensibly because we would lose.
Singapore has been "clear and consistent" over its position that Malaysia has lost the right to review the price of water under the 1962 Water Agreement, said Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) on Wednesday (Mar 13).
Singapore has always been prepared to settle disputes by recourse to appropriate international third party dispute settlement procedures, on terms mutually agreed to by the parties.
In fact, as far back as 2003, then-Minister for Foreign Affairs S Jayakumar said that Singapore was prepared to agree to refer this matter to international arbitration by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the interest of resolving the dispute.”
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Well done.
Singapore has force Malaysia to concede to this step.
Now Mahathir should do what he say - international arbitration by the Permanent Court of Arbitration.
Don't chicken out and flip flop !
Singapore has been "clear and consistent" over its position that Malaysia has lost the right to review the price of water under the 1962 Water Agreement, said Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) on Wednesday (Mar 13).
Singapore has always been prepared to settle disputes by recourse to appropriate international third party dispute settlement procedures, on terms mutually agreed to by the parties.
In fact, as far back as 2003, then-Minister for Foreign Affairs S Jayakumar said that Singapore was prepared to agree to refer this matter to international arbitration by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the interest of resolving the dispute.”
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Well done.
Singapore has force Malaysia to concede to this step.
Now Mahathir should do what he say - international arbitration by the Permanent Court of Arbitration.
Don't chicken out and flip flop !
Victor Land
Obviously Malaysia has forgotten what they said earlier. Espeically during Mahathir first PM term. His secretary is not doing a good job. Please consolidate all his published public speech and re-print a copy for his new government to refer.
A Ganapathy A Ganapathy
We are what we are, will stick to our agreement as per written. You be must be ( malaysian ) bless that what drink all this while is a good clean water, supply by us with good hearted..🇸🇬
Like · Reply · 3 · 28m
Muhammad Fadris Prakash
用李 yup very3 true. Tis old man nid to spent wat short life he has njoying the scenery n time wif his wife rather than meddling wif politics which he is too old for
Lester Tan
If malaysia treat own water and supply to their own country the water bill goes up. If sg cant get water supply and look for elsewhere and it will also cost more and water bills goes up too. To both govts might be fighting for rights but for the citizen of both countries suffer. Hope that things stay put. God bless
Ricky Lim
Lester Tan -
(1) You say if malaysia treat own water - their water bill will go up and will hit the citizen pocket.
The answer is definite.
(2) But when you say Singapore look for water elsewhere, water bill will go up for citizens.
The answer is - you are wrong on 2 grounds :-
Firstly - Singapore process our own water - Newater (recycle water), Desalination (sea water) and our own Resevoir (rainwater + newater). Singapore don't have to go elsewhere to find water.
Secondly - Singapore citizens are currently paying water + water conservation tax --- which is tantamount to paying already high water bill.
So malaysians will have alot to lose.
But Singaporean citizens has not much to lose.
(1) You say if malaysia treat own water - their water bill will go up and will hit the citizen pocket.
The answer is definite.
(2) But when you say Singapore look for water elsewhere, water bill will go up for citizens.
The answer is - you are wrong on 2 grounds :-
Firstly - Singapore process our own water - Newater (recycle water), Desalination (sea water) and our own Resevoir (rainwater + newater). Singapore don't have to go elsewhere to find water.
Secondly - Singapore citizens are currently paying water + water conservation tax --- which is tantamount to paying already high water bill.
So malaysians will have alot to lose.
But Singaporean citizens has not much to lose.
Like · Reply · 1m
Khim Koon Tsn
Ricky Lim . You are right. In fact we must get the lower price for our water. Reason: if we don't have supply water to MALAYSIA, we have access. Therefore can lower the rate.
Victor Land
Malaysia, please think carefully if you decide to turn to international arbitration by the Permanent Court of Arbitration. It's going to be extremely embrassing if you loose... especially when you are so confident. Think carefully before you act. Think about your people. You are representing them. Never embarrass your citizens. They work hard and vote for you. They deserve better from you.
Like · Reply · 2 · 27m
Sharil Bin Saharudin
Eh Mahdey, if SG does not want to go to world court, is becoz we do not agree to the terms of reference, which must be mutually agreed.
So wat was your term of reference? Is it ONLY about the 3 sen/kilo mgd of raw water? If true, no wonder SG justifiably refused becoz it's so one-sided.
So Mahdey, why dont you reveal in full, the term of reference that made SG is so ostensibly afraid to lose at world court?
Havent you learned by now? Every time you spin and spout half-truths, you will end up being exposed and humiliated by us.
So wat was your term of reference? Is it ONLY about the 3 sen/kilo mgd of raw water? If true, no wonder SG justifiably refused becoz it's so one-sided.
So Mahdey, why dont you reveal in full, the term of reference that made SG is so ostensibly afraid to lose at world court?
Havent you learned by now? Every time you spin and spout half-truths, you will end up being exposed and humiliated by us.
Simon Teoh
Can the two governments or someone publish the agreement so we ordinary citizens can see what it says? Can’t seem to find it using google
Joseph Convergence
Got study or not ?
Must read -:- Law Of Contract
(LOC not LOL)
Must read -:- Law Of Contract
(LOC not LOL)
Ricky Lim
If Mahathir study "Law of Contract" - he probably will not challenge us in Court.
The 4 elements of "Law of Contract" :-
(1) Offer
(2) Acceptance
(3) Consideration
(4) Mutual Agreement of legal consequences
--- non of them are fulfilled by Mahathir and his gang. (No offer from us, no acceptance from us, no Consideration perform by Malaysia group with monetary benefits, no legal documents signed - to the effect of revision of water prices).
Conversely, we have all the above 4 elements.
(1) Offer - to revise price in 1987 or status quo
(2) Acceptance - Mahathir want status quo in 1987, in Jan 2018, Najib sign reaffirmation
(3) Consideration -
(a) we build the Linggiu Dam at $300 million after 1987 to reinforce the water agreement.
(b) We supply 16 mgd a day to Johor as goodwill (above the 5 mgd a day - legal requirement).
(c) Singapore has so far spent more than S$1 billion on water projects in Johor.
(4) Mutual Agreement of legal consequences -
(a) (i) in 1962 Water Agreement and in 1965, when Singapore was ejected from the Federation of Malaysia, Singapore took the precaution of ensuring that the 1962 Water Agreement was guaranteed by the governments of both Malaysia and Singapore.
(ii) It forms in effect part of Singapore and Malaysia 1965 Separation Agreement.
Any breach of the 1962 Water Agreement would call into question the Separation Agreement, and this Separation Agreement is the basis of our existence of an independent sovereign state.
Therefore, Malaysia and Singapore must fully honour the terms of the 1962 Water Agreement, including the price of water stipulated in it,
Neither Malaysia nor Singapore can unilaterally change the terms of this agreement between the two countries.
(b) 1987 agreement not to revise water price - signed by PM of both Countries
(c) Jan 2018 reaffirmation of terms and conditions of the Water Agreement (including the water prices) - signed by PM of both Countries
--- All the above are legally binding document that are signed.
That is why our legal ground are very strong ---- good thing they fall into our wish to go to Court.
The 4 elements of "Law of Contract" :-
(1) Offer
(2) Acceptance
(3) Consideration
(4) Mutual Agreement of legal consequences
--- non of them are fulfilled by Mahathir and his gang. (No offer from us, no acceptance from us, no Consideration perform by Malaysia group with monetary benefits, no legal documents signed - to the effect of revision of water prices).
Conversely, we have all the above 4 elements.
(1) Offer - to revise price in 1987 or status quo
(2) Acceptance - Mahathir want status quo in 1987, in Jan 2018, Najib sign reaffirmation
(3) Consideration -
(a) we build the Linggiu Dam at $300 million after 1987 to reinforce the water agreement.
(b) We supply 16 mgd a day to Johor as goodwill (above the 5 mgd a day - legal requirement).
(c) Singapore has so far spent more than S$1 billion on water projects in Johor.
(4) Mutual Agreement of legal consequences -
(a) (i) in 1962 Water Agreement and in 1965, when Singapore was ejected from the Federation of Malaysia, Singapore took the precaution of ensuring that the 1962 Water Agreement was guaranteed by the governments of both Malaysia and Singapore.
(ii) It forms in effect part of Singapore and Malaysia 1965 Separation Agreement.
Any breach of the 1962 Water Agreement would call into question the Separation Agreement, and this Separation Agreement is the basis of our existence of an independent sovereign state.
Therefore, Malaysia and Singapore must fully honour the terms of the 1962 Water Agreement, including the price of water stipulated in it,
Neither Malaysia nor Singapore can unilaterally change the terms of this agreement between the two countries.
(b) 1987 agreement not to revise water price - signed by PM of both Countries
(c) Jan 2018 reaffirmation of terms and conditions of the Water Agreement (including the water prices) - signed by PM of both Countries
--- All the above are legally binding document that are signed.
That is why our legal ground are very strong ---- good thing they fall into our wish to go to Court.
Tony Mok
Mr Saifuddin said, before Putrajaya escalates the issue to international arbitration, it first needs to ensure that Johor state has ample water supply. "We need to work on zero dependency on water from Singapore.
It is what we say in Singlish "Got say like No say"
1) For International arbitration both country must agree and
abide to the ruling. It take many years to reach an agreement
before going to International court.
(It took petra blanca took 10 years to go to ICJ)
2) For Johor to be self sufficient it need to pay and extra of
RM200 million per year to process its own water i.e assuming
that they have the facility and efficiency to produce water to
the same standard as Singapore.
By then Singapore will be able to obtain water at a cheaper or close to the New Johore asking price.
Near 2061 Johor will have excess capacity to produce more water but there will be no market in Singapore. As Singapore Government have said publicly that we will be self sufficient years before 2061
Johor have to start building infrastructure and selling water to other Malaysian states
It is what we say in Singlish "Got say like No say"
1) For International arbitration both country must agree and
abide to the ruling. It take many years to reach an agreement
before going to International court.
(It took petra blanca took 10 years to go to ICJ)
2) For Johor to be self sufficient it need to pay and extra of
RM200 million per year to process its own water i.e assuming
that they have the facility and efficiency to produce water to
the same standard as Singapore.
By then Singapore will be able to obtain water at a cheaper or close to the New Johore asking price.
Near 2061 Johor will have excess capacity to produce more water but there will be no market in Singapore. As Singapore Government have said publicly that we will be self sufficient years before 2061
Johor have to start building infrastructure and selling water to other Malaysian states
Like · Reply · 1m
Pher Kim Huat
Right move and kudos to MFA to be firm, clear and consistent to tell our "morally wrong" neighbour : "Malaysia has lost the right to review the price of water under the 1962 Water Agreement". Let them make a mockery of themselves to be a laughing stock in this 21st century.
Like · Reply · 33m
Kwai Meng Tang
Going to the international arbitration court to settle issues with Malaysia must be the only way Singapore adopt going forward in our relation with Malaysia. Singapore cannot be going into a "pissing contest" with them each time they "cook" up an issue with us.
Niko Nishi
Mahathir's comment that 'Singapore does not want to go to the “world court”, ostensibly because we would lose' is for his own people to consume and to bluff his people that they have the upperhand. Now that our MFA has welcomed the suggestion, the ball is now in their court to bring Singapore to the world court.
Manenough Tan
yes, instead of quabbling and wasting time and resources on this matter, let's settle it once and for all. Do it the INTERNATIONAL way with law and rules.
Reply · 9m
Georgie Tan
High time to go to IA. Cannot talk to someone who is worst then animals. What say you now Mad dog and his gang. SG is afraid to go to court then more so to do it. Let see who underpant will drop.
Shaun Foo
singapore shld juz ignore Malaysia bcos the singapore armed forces is much more powerful than Malaysia. singapore shld juz disrespect Malaysia & demand small Malaysia to abide by the water treaty or force Malaysia to her knees. So as to defend the sovereignty & superiority of singapore for eternity.
Ricky Lim
Don't talk so much, your Mahathir and your Minister Foreign Affair challenge Singapore to go to International Court.
Singapore has accepted.
Now, what is Malaysia next step?
Chicken out or Contest in Court?
Singapore has accepted.
Now, what is Malaysia next step?
Chicken out or Contest in Court?
Like · Reply · 1m
Tun Osman
Foo shaun dont embarrass youself here. Do not show your stupidity.
Reply · 17m
Daniel Choo
Hi,
Armed response should only be used if there are no other avenues of diplomacy. Our armed forces are also used for the sole purpose of defending Singapore.
My 2 cents worth is this as well. Malaysians and Singaporeans are both humans and we are trying to get a consensus on the issue at hand.
Armed response always dehumanises people and nobody really wins.
Armed response should only be used if there are no other avenues of diplomacy. Our armed forces are also used for the sole purpose of defending Singapore.
My 2 cents worth is this as well. Malaysians and Singaporeans are both humans and we are trying to get a consensus on the issue at hand.
Armed response always dehumanises people and nobody really wins.
Ricky Lim
Even today, without Johor water, Singapore is already self sufficient in water.
Singapore needs = 430 mgd a day.
Singapore water supply :-
(1) Newater (5) produce 50 mgd a day = 250 mgd a day.
(2) Desalination (3) produce 70 mgd, 30 mgd (2) = 130 mgd a day.
(3) 2 new Desalination plant (complete by 2020 - next year) produce 30 mgd a day = 60 mgd a day.
(4) 17 reservoirs (estimate 10 mgd a day each) = 170 mgd (reserve not used)
Total water supply = 440 mgd a day + 170 mgd
A new project DTSS (Deep Tunnel Sewage System) can produce = 400 mgd a day (Phase 1 complete by 2025).
Expected water needs in 2061 = 860 mgd a day.
Expected water supply in 2061 = 440 + 170 + 400 = 1,010 mgd a day.
(But most newater and desalination plant will expire by 20 years and 25 years --- new newater or desalination plants that have higher capacity will take its place) - thus the estimated 1,010 mgd a day --- is just a projection.
Singapore needs = 430 mgd a day.
Singapore water supply :-
(1) Newater (5) produce 50 mgd a day = 250 mgd a day.
(2) Desalination (3) produce 70 mgd, 30 mgd (2) = 130 mgd a day.
(3) 2 new Desalination plant (complete by 2020 - next year) produce 30 mgd a day = 60 mgd a day.
(4) 17 reservoirs (estimate 10 mgd a day each) = 170 mgd (reserve not used)
Total water supply = 440 mgd a day + 170 mgd
A new project DTSS (Deep Tunnel Sewage System) can produce = 400 mgd a day (Phase 1 complete by 2025).
Expected water needs in 2061 = 860 mgd a day.
Expected water supply in 2061 = 440 + 170 + 400 = 1,010 mgd a day.
(But most newater and desalination plant will expire by 20 years and 25 years --- new newater or desalination plants that have higher capacity will take its place) - thus the estimated 1,010 mgd a day --- is just a projection.
Masa Soh Mengming
Can the Federal Government even intervene in issues pertaining to water? Thought this is under the purview of the Johor State Government.
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