Islamic militants kill 18 Philippine soldiers in worst clashes this year
April 10, 2016
ricky l4 seconds ago
To engage the extremist Abu Sayyaf group - soft-skin vehicles to transport the troops should be avoided - as they can be easily ambushed with no armor protection.
Armour vehicles to transport the troop should be used - as it provide armor protection to the troop against small arm fire and to a certain extent IEDs. The armor vehicles are also armed with heavy machine guns and medium machine guns - to provide sustain suppressing fire against the militants ---- and the troops will have a higher chance of survival.
Also to combat the militants hiding at higher ground --- close air supports and arty support will be required to soften the ground before the armor troops do the assault.
Otherwise, foot soldiers against the militants will result in high casualties rate - as the militants hold the ground advantage and familiar ground.
therover50 minutes ago
What armor? The heaviest APC they have is the M113 and Amtrak. They are deathtraps when hit by RPG, which the rebels have aplenty. And armor cannot maneuver in jungles. And which conflict showed that "close air support" has any real effect in defeating an enemy especially in the jungles? Furthermore, the troops were out to rescue hostages, not bomb the rebels. You really don't know much, do you?
ricky l1 minute ago
Wait a minute, look at the picture above. Are they in the jungle?
They are ambush in the main road with open terrain. And the vehicle are normal vehicle with no armor protection. Any pistol or assault weapons will have easily kill the troops with ease.
If the troop go in with M113, it will not be one M113. At least dozens of them.
In such ambush operation, how many RPGs can the militants carry?
RPGs need very accurate direct hit to penetrate M113. Assume 1 or 2 M113 is hit, the rest can return suppress fire with machine guns -- and all the ambush team will be eradicated.
Compare to softskin vehicles - your troop used your body to block bullets?
If you are doing hostage rescue operations - commandos type of stealth infiltration will be required. Not transporting troops on vehicles on main road in open terrain. Sure get ambush.
ricky l14 seconds ago
Also in a hostage rescue operations, how can it be conducted in broad daylight and travelling along the main routes in open terrain with so many troops.
It can easily be detected and got ambushed.
It will also alert the militants that a conventional troops is on the way and get the hostages killed - and at the same time jeopardising the rescue troops.
ricky l4 seconds ago
On high ground ---- a heli-insertion with commandos at night with stealth and speed and with accuracy will be the key in hostage situation (supported by night vision goggle).
Also assume the commandos successfully beaten the militants, can it rescue the hostages in a firefight in a deep jungle?
And how to extricate the hostages out from the jungle when helicopter cannot land and vehicles cannot go into the jungle?
ricky l4 seconds ago
Also with a small group of commandos versus hundred of heavily armed militants - can the commandos outfight hundred of armed militants in a firefight ---- unless each and every commandos are Rambo --- that cannot be killed by bullets.
Without air support, without armor support, without arty support ----- how to rescue the hostages and successfully defeat the heavily armed hundred of militants?
In fact, ability to rescue hostages under such situation will be considered a miracle.
Defeating the militants will be more likely if the armor and air support are plan and coordinated properly.
ricky l1 minute ago
Look at the vehicle in the photo that was shot --- they are pelted with so many bullet holes (not RPG). All occupants in the vehicles will definitely be killed.
If M113 are used, the bullets will just get ricochet and all troops will be safe.
The troops can respond with machine guns fire and assault weapons ---- and the militants will be "KIA" --- not the troops.
The results will be very different.
So look at the photo before you comment.
Also even if the militants are hiding in high ground in jungle, the M113 can provide suppressing fire as support base - and fire at the militants on high ground when the troops start the assault on the militants.
The militants under machine gun harassment will be stress out in the fight.
PARIAH7 hours ago
its a pity that non military citizens had the better idea on how to plan/conduct attack on lairs of Bloody Piggy Abus. Did generals had thought of air support or projectiles in case of ambuscades from a fortified higher grounds and blocking forces on all exit points?? Zamboanga siege, a deja vu.
- therover40 minutes ago
- therover24 minutes ago
ricky l4 seconds ago
OK therover - given the photo is outdated --- did not see the date. Wonder why an obsolete photo is pasted here when it is irrelevant.
Now come back to the battle of the militants.
Assume the militants are hiding in the jungle.
You mean the whole place there does not even have a single road of access?
There are no civilisation there?
Then how does the militants survive in the jungle? Eat grass or leaves to survive?
There must be road of access. Don't tell me the troops need to walk hundreds of km or miles walking in jungles to reach the location of the militants ---- i don't buy these ideas.
So there must be roads for vehicles to travel - and come back to the same argument - armor vehicles will provide better for troops and not softskin vehicles. Also armor can also used as a support base to fire from high ground. In the event of successful rescue operation, the armor vehicles can also be used to transport hostages back to camp (if a miracle occurs).
I bet you are not trained in armor operation.
Also if troop is infiltrating into high ground, it will definitely be booby trap or ambush at the foot of the hill.
If you are doing a silent infiltration, the troop must be able to penetrate by clearing the obstacles or mine or booby traps or ambush without being detected - which is very difficult.
Thus it will become an open assault. In an open assault, you will need to clear the ground of obstacles, mine, booby traps and ambush. Then you will need to soften the ground by calling for arty support, air support to bombard the location to clear the ground and deplete the defending force.
Or you can do a heli-insert from high ground and turn your disadvantage into advantage - through the cover of the night with stealth operation. But also bear in mind the high ground could also be booby trap. The heli-insert will need to be conducted by commandos or special forces - who are well trained in this type of operation.
But bear in mind, only a small group of special forces can go in without being detected. The small group need to fight a bigger enemy defending forces --- which is a risky operation for both the rescue team and the hostages.. Also extrication will be difficult in a jungle when helicopter are not able to land to pick up the hostages and rescue force.
Since an open fight is the likely scenarios - then softening of the ground with armor support, arty support and air support - will be the only way to ensure success.
The fate of the hostages is always dangerous in either operation - whether in stealth or open fight - there is no guarantee of success when the militants threaten to kill the hostages and they are tricking the troops to assault and then ambush them.
But defeating the hundred over militants is possible - if the military operation is well planned with proper support.
ricky l4 seconds ago
Also the militants are hiding in high ground, they are trapped.
An armor operation can surround the foot of the mountain or hill. Where can the militants go?
Unless they can fly.
The militants will be cut off and no where to run --- waiting to be KIA.
ricky l20 seconds ago
With armor securing and surrounding the mountain and the militants trap ---- then arty can be called to fire the high ground at will or air support is called in to fire at the high ground at will or the armor itself can fire suppressing fire at the high ground at will.
The only place the militants can run --- is to run down to the foot of the hill where the armor surround them - and then they can be arrested.
Don't even need to commit troops to assault the high ground.
Result :- No casualties to the troop.
Militants casualties or arrest - 100%.
Hostages fate - unknown (unless airdrop leaflets to militants - to ensure the safety of hostages --- otherwise bomb the hills until the cow come home.)
