Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/maritime-dispute-heng-swee-keat-malaysia-singapore-11015496
(Updated: )
Augustine Teo
no need so many top guns come out talk. hen and coastal police are enough . now cow heng chan masoki bala , i dont know who is next , shamugam ? law ma .. this is not leadership .. kiasu leadership indeed.
Bernard Goh
If LKY is around today, what do you think he will do?
Ricky Lim
If Mr LKY is around, he will also handle the issue with caution - just like in the case of Pedra Branca.
This intrusion is exactly the same scenarios like in Pedra Branca - where it is further away from us - and in fact can use stronger measures. But at that time, we still handle the confrontation with appropriate measures - and we came out better.
In terms of military strength - we are way ahead - and can easily resolve this issue with overwhelming force.
But what will be the consequences after that?
Hostility become the norm - like in Middle East.
It is easy to be quick using forces -- but just look at Syria, Yemen ---- the aftermath destruction and human death is unmeasurable.
Do we want that?
We have to note that the Malaysia younger Ministers want closer cooperation and they don't want hostility - we should be firm in defending our Sovereignty and will not give up even one inch - but we must proceed with appropriate measures - bearing in mind we still want to work and cooperate the Malaysia younger Ministers in future -- not to destroy this with a moment of folly of anger - all because of one old man.
(Note :- during confrontation between China and India troop along their border recently - they also adopt measured approach - pushing around rather than gunfight.
Because the moment gunfight erupted, there will be casaulties - and it will escalate into arty exchange, plane bombing and then a big fight emerged.).
We should prod along - and adjust appropriate measures along the way.
We need to be united behind the Singapore Government - as we navigate and proceed forward.
Thus we need to be calm - and develop counter measures as we prod along.
This intrusion is exactly the same scenarios like in Pedra Branca - where it is further away from us - and in fact can use stronger measures. But at that time, we still handle the confrontation with appropriate measures - and we came out better.
In terms of military strength - we are way ahead - and can easily resolve this issue with overwhelming force.
But what will be the consequences after that?
Hostility become the norm - like in Middle East.
It is easy to be quick using forces -- but just look at Syria, Yemen ---- the aftermath destruction and human death is unmeasurable.
Do we want that?
We have to note that the Malaysia younger Ministers want closer cooperation and they don't want hostility - we should be firm in defending our Sovereignty and will not give up even one inch - but we must proceed with appropriate measures - bearing in mind we still want to work and cooperate the Malaysia younger Ministers in future -- not to destroy this with a moment of folly of anger - all because of one old man.
(Note :- during confrontation between China and India troop along their border recently - they also adopt measured approach - pushing around rather than gunfight.
Because the moment gunfight erupted, there will be casaulties - and it will escalate into arty exchange, plane bombing and then a big fight emerged.).
We should prod along - and adjust appropriate measures along the way.
We need to be united behind the Singapore Government - as we navigate and proceed forward.
Thus we need to be calm - and develop counter measures as we prod along.
Like · Reply · 25 · 12h · Edited
Ricky Lim
If Singaporeans are not happy - and want to express your displeasure with the old man - there is a "soft measure" to punish him :-
"Singaporeans continue to make-up the bulk of tourist and international arrivals to Johor with 5.6 million visitors recorded in the first six months of this year.
She said the figure was followed by arrivals from Indonesia (690,998), China (386,778), Philippines (157,594), India (101,750), Japan (59,901), South Korea (62,474) and Thailand (47,758)."
---- If Singaporeans stop visiting Malaysia - then Malaysia will be poorer by S$16.6 billion a year.
But some people here say - Singaporeans are more pragmatic than patriotic woh.
So who to blame?
"Singaporeans continue to make-up the bulk of tourist and international arrivals to Johor with 5.6 million visitors recorded in the first six months of this year.
She said the figure was followed by arrivals from Indonesia (690,998), China (386,778), Philippines (157,594), India (101,750), Japan (59,901), South Korea (62,474) and Thailand (47,758)."
---- If Singaporeans stop visiting Malaysia - then Malaysia will be poorer by S$16.6 billion a year.
But some people here say - Singaporeans are more pragmatic than patriotic woh.
So who to blame?
Like · Reply · 1m
Breeke Lo
He will likely personally call the old snake and issue an ultimatum, if not complied with, the ships will be removed using force ... like what Taiwan did last year when it opened fire at a Chinese vessel that refused to leave.
Ricky Lim
Breeke Lo - Do you have intelligence of what type of ships are in our water - and holding what type of weapons?
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Breeke Lo - No I don't doubt him - but before we take action - we must know what type of weapons they are holding.
Some ships cannot used non-lethal approach - and the only way to chase it out is to sink it before it fire.
Some ships cannot used non-lethal approach - and the only way to chase it out is to sink it before it fire.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Breeke Lo - That is why the only way to chase it out - is to sink it.
But the consequences later is unimagineable.
But the consequences later is unimagineable.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Another way is to trap them - and cut their food and water supply - unless and until they surrender.
This will take very long - maybe a month?
But it will be a good bargaining chip.
The 3 vessels are not intruding - we trap them by water mines until and unless they surrender?
This will take very long - maybe a month?
But it will be a good bargaining chip.
The 3 vessels are not intruding - we trap them by water mines until and unless they surrender?
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
Breeke Lo - When if the dispute is bring into International Court - it will diminshed our standings when we breached the international law.
Now they breached international law - whereas our conscience is clear.
By doing wrong does not make us right. We should not follow their wrong.
Also why Singapore are respected by Countries all over the World - because we always do the right thing and we don't breached International Laws.
Now they breached international law - whereas our conscience is clear.
By doing wrong does not make us right. We should not follow their wrong.
Also why Singapore are respected by Countries all over the World - because we always do the right thing and we don't breached International Laws.
Like · Reply · 1m
Jeffery Tan
Ricky Lim we technically can use our power over them to firmly stop them from doing this by using it as a diplomatic tool
Masa Soh Mengming
Breeke Lo Or like when the Filipinos shot at and killed Taiwanese fishermen during the height of the SCS debacle eh? I wonder what border there is between the ROC and the PRC in the first place.
Yelp Silver
Ricky Lim but if sg really does that, Malaysia will response with calling their FT pple working here to go back home. It'll be a greater loss to sg especially in our daily life. And they'll also do some adjustment to control export to sg. Importing from other countries maybe more expensive due to shipping... etc. I wonder who will win.
Like · Reply · 4h
Ricky Lim
Yelp Silver -
Singaporeans if patriotic - is out of their own resolve to express displeasure with the old man - by not going across the Causeway - but spending it at home. It is not our Gov policy or order to tell Singaporeans not to go. It is individual's resolve.
As Singaporeans, I ask myself why do I want to benefit them - when they do something to harm our interest and the Country's interest?
(1) "Malaysia will response with calling their FT pple working here to go back home. "
Ans :- Malaysians are not stupid - you think their gov ask them to go home, they will go home without a job?
Also Singapore has many labour sources - not depending on Malaysians only to supplement our workforce.
(2) "It'll be a greater loss to sg especially in our daily life. "
Ans :- See my response above in the 1st paragraph. You can buy your groceries in Singapore, dine in Singapore and enjoy recreation in Singapore --- is whether you as individual has resolved or not.
Or you can because of few saving in dollar - let people slap you on your left face - after the old man has already slap you on the right face.
If as individual stop going up - they will lose S$16.6 billion a year - and Singapore will be richer by S$16.6 billion a year.
(3) "And they'll also do some adjustment to control export to sg. Importing from other countries maybe more expensive due to shipping... etc. I wonder who will win."
Ans :- Singapore don't buy goods only from Malaysia. Singapore buy all goods from all over the World.
For every products - easily we have at least 10 suppliers from more than 10 Countries - so that our foodstuff and groceries are not at the mercy of any Countries.
If they stop export - you think their business will not bankrupt?
Singaporeans if patriotic - is out of their own resolve to express displeasure with the old man - by not going across the Causeway - but spending it at home. It is not our Gov policy or order to tell Singaporeans not to go. It is individual's resolve.
As Singaporeans, I ask myself why do I want to benefit them - when they do something to harm our interest and the Country's interest?
(1) "Malaysia will response with calling their FT pple working here to go back home. "
Ans :- Malaysians are not stupid - you think their gov ask them to go home, they will go home without a job?
Also Singapore has many labour sources - not depending on Malaysians only to supplement our workforce.
(2) "It'll be a greater loss to sg especially in our daily life. "
Ans :- See my response above in the 1st paragraph. You can buy your groceries in Singapore, dine in Singapore and enjoy recreation in Singapore --- is whether you as individual has resolved or not.
Or you can because of few saving in dollar - let people slap you on your left face - after the old man has already slap you on the right face.
If as individual stop going up - they will lose S$16.6 billion a year - and Singapore will be richer by S$16.6 billion a year.
(3) "And they'll also do some adjustment to control export to sg. Importing from other countries maybe more expensive due to shipping... etc. I wonder who will win."
Ans :- Singapore don't buy goods only from Malaysia. Singapore buy all goods from all over the World.
For every products - easily we have at least 10 suppliers from more than 10 Countries - so that our foodstuff and groceries are not at the mercy of any Countries.
If they stop export - you think their business will not bankrupt?
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
This soft measure is in fact the most effective - as their people and business will get very angry - to ask the old man to back down and withdraw their intruding vessels.
Because no money, no business, no jobs - their people will jump the roof - and the old man will back down.
But some Singaporeans - backside itchy, no backbone 没骨气 - say we are more pragmatic than more patriotic - then don't complain.
Because no money, no business, no jobs - their people will jump the roof - and the old man will back down.
But some Singaporeans - backside itchy, no backbone 没骨气 - say we are more pragmatic than more patriotic - then don't complain.
Like · Reply · 1m
Breeke Lo
K Tan Don like mentioned earlier, any talks will be possible .. but not before your ships, both armed and unarmed, leave our waters first. Nothing meaningful can come up from a talk under the present tension.
Like · Reply · 18m
Breeke Lo
Ricky Lim the boycott strategy can only work if Singaporeans are not as pragmatic. I personally support that, in fact, I hv stopped going over for sometime already. When formulating strategies u need to consider ground adoption, you can't just look at calculations and logic - that's actually how the term paper general come about.
Breeke Lo
Ricky Lim if u hv studied economics and consumer buying behaviour, you will know that trying to go against the force of "the invisible hand" is harder than moving a mountain. As long as there are no reported hostilities or official advisories against it, the Woodlands>JB flow will continue no matter what you say here. Check out the live traffic cams this weekend.
Like · Reply ·
Ricky Lim
Breeke Lo - I have to clarify that this "soft measure" is not our Government initiative.
So it is not a "strategy formulated" as a counter measure by our Government.
But it is appealing to individual's resolve - as a form of patriotism.
This "soft meausre" based on rational permutation - is the most effective, less destructive form of response - that will have a ground rippling effect - to force that old man to back down and withdraw their intruding vessels --- and this will have the "soft power" display by "common man in the street" resolve to solve our National problem - to teach this old man a lesson --- don't mess around with our National Sovereignty --- without resorting to "military forces" --- which are more deadly.
In addition, we can also send a message that - we are strong, but reasonable - as we want to work with their younger Ministers who want to cooperate and work with us in the future - when this old man step down.
Without using "military forces" - but through our "People's Power" (specifically People Purchasing Power) -- we can stop this old man's nostalgia nonsense.
The moment this old man come into power --- my whole family stop visiting Malaysia --- knowing that one day we will have to "deal with this old man" this way.
Indeed the prophecy comes true.
If more and more Singaporeans response to this call --- even by half responding to this call - it will nip S$8.8 billion or RM$25 billion a year from this old man - will be a tremendous setback to this old man.
So it is not a "strategy formulated" as a counter measure by our Government.
But it is appealing to individual's resolve - as a form of patriotism.
This "soft meausre" based on rational permutation - is the most effective, less destructive form of response - that will have a ground rippling effect - to force that old man to back down and withdraw their intruding vessels --- and this will have the "soft power" display by "common man in the street" resolve to solve our National problem - to teach this old man a lesson --- don't mess around with our National Sovereignty --- without resorting to "military forces" --- which are more deadly.
In addition, we can also send a message that - we are strong, but reasonable - as we want to work with their younger Ministers who want to cooperate and work with us in the future - when this old man step down.
Without using "military forces" - but through our "People's Power" (specifically People Purchasing Power) -- we can stop this old man's nostalgia nonsense.
The moment this old man come into power --- my whole family stop visiting Malaysia --- knowing that one day we will have to "deal with this old man" this way.
Indeed the prophecy comes true.
If more and more Singaporeans response to this call --- even by half responding to this call - it will nip S$8.8 billion or RM$25 billion a year from this old man - will be a tremendous setback to this old man.
Breeke Lo
Ricky Lim as mentioned, i personally support this. But can't say for the regular bargain hunters, where saving dollars here and there do make a diff to their monthly sustenance. Even if there is an initial patriotic response, and JB biz is hurt, economic theory says prices will decrease to the fall in demand. 10%, 20%, 30%.. and a point will be reached where pragmatic singaporeans start to flock there again, and prices inch back up again. The only way foe this to work longterm is to achieve price parity on both sides .. which will never happen.
Ricky Lim
Breeke Lo - How to achieve price parity - when the 2 Countries are in a different stage of development?
(1) Singapore GDP per capita (PPP) = $90,531 (3rd highest)
(2) Malaysia GDP per capita (PPP) = $28,871 (rank 46)
Unless Singaporeans are willing to reduce their :-
(1) House worth
(2) Salary
(3) Wealth
etc by 3 times.
And honestly, i doubt those bargain hunters who drive their car up - are bargain hunters (who desperately need the saving to get by their lives).
A person who can own car in Singapore - are not scrapping for living.
I leave it to those bargain hunters to think for themselves - meanwhile for these people don't complain if the old man stomp on your Sovereignty.
But for what i know, some people who frequently visit Malaysia - no longer do so (including my family).
(1) Singapore GDP per capita (PPP) = $90,531 (3rd highest)
(2) Malaysia GDP per capita (PPP) = $28,871 (rank 46)
Unless Singaporeans are willing to reduce their :-
(1) House worth
(2) Salary
(3) Wealth
etc by 3 times.
And honestly, i doubt those bargain hunters who drive their car up - are bargain hunters (who desperately need the saving to get by their lives).
A person who can own car in Singapore - are not scrapping for living.
I leave it to those bargain hunters to think for themselves - meanwhile for these people don't complain if the old man stomp on your Sovereignty.
But for what i know, some people who frequently visit Malaysia - no longer do so (including my family).
Rush-It Ram
One by one emerge and repeating the same statement. Come on Ministers.. u can do better than that. Chill and chill.
Bernard Goh
Give them a timeline to withdraw or face the consequences.
Like · Reply · 2 · 48m
Ricky Lim
K Tan Don - all your intruding vessels can be sink in a matter of seconds.
We never doubt our Armed forces capabilities.
But what it means afterwards - will be the long term hostilites and a very difficult relationship that will hurt both Countries - because of one stubborn old man.
We never doubt our Armed forces capabilities.
But what it means afterwards - will be the long term hostilites and a very difficult relationship that will hurt both Countries - because of one stubborn old man.
Breeke Lo
M said we are twins, they bigger brother, we smaller brother. Do we agree? No response means consent?
Like · Reply · 42m
Breeke Lo
K Tan Don How to talk when you have ARMED ships in our waters? Can you discuss anything with someone who's pointing a gun at your head?
Reply · 4m
K Tan Don
Ricky Lim I never doubt your army capability...but as I mentioned earlier..once you did that, means that there is a chance many angry mob will surround your embassies, your factories, your invsted properties in Malaysia and burnt them down. Also in the event if you invade Johor, ok fine you can win some terrorities but it would end up in prolong guerrila attacks. Each day, one of you sons (assuming you invaded and conquer some territories) will be hackled to death just like what the Japanese faced during World 2..even though technology superior, you will not have enough manpower to control and sustain your advantage. The Japanese had superior army when they invaded Korea in 1592 to 1592 but ended up withdrawing from the country due to numerous attacks from guerrela warfares.
Ricky Lim
K Tan Don - We also have our tolerance limit.
Once you breached our tolerance limit - we will use our assets to the fullest - when this mean it is an all out war.
Once you breached our tolerance limit - we will use our assets to the fullest - when this mean it is an all out war.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ko Mit
K Tan Don --
I agree with you about the Sg's shortage of manpower problem.
We have to face because Sg's population is only about 2 millions born and bred local Sgreans. It's too small.....
And there is loyalty problem with the Sgrean Malays.....
So go for negotiation first before any physical confrontation.....
I agree with you about the Sg's shortage of manpower problem.
We have to face because Sg's population is only about 2 millions born and bred local Sgreans. It's too small.....
And there is loyalty problem with the Sgrean Malays.....
So go for negotiation first before any physical confrontation.....
Breeke Lo
Guys, there will be no war between SG and MY. Even if one is stupid enough to attack first, the war will be a shortlived one. We're both FPDA members, and as soon as one is attacked, the attacker will be subdued swiftly by allies Britain, Aussie and NZ. So no, there wun be war.
Tommie Vale
Heng only wrote on Facebook. He should be speaking like how CCS did with confidence. Speaking and writing are two different things.
Foong Mun Loh
then what about former M'sians holding minister posts and running our sovereign wealth fund ?
KT Tan
I think the intruders already got the message but chose to ignore. I wonder whether there should be a timeline or is Singapore going to repeat the message over and over again when intrusion has already taken its course...
Richard Lacqua
Malaysia = Third World country, armed with mainly antiquated Russian weaponry. Unable to buy American weaponry because 1) the USA does not trust Malaysia and 2) this Third World country is saddled with USD 250 BILLION worth of debt.
Singapore = First World country armed almost exclusively with sophisticated American weaponry, including the F-15SG. On friendly terms with the only country in the world that matters -- the USA.
Which country do you think will emerge as the victor in the event of a war? A Third World joke of a nation (Bolehland), or a sophisticated, regional military power equipped with the latest and most potent military hardware available?
Answers on a postcard.
Singapore = First World country armed almost exclusively with sophisticated American weaponry, including the F-15SG. On friendly terms with the only country in the world that matters -- the USA.
Which country do you think will emerge as the victor in the event of a war? A Third World joke of a nation (Bolehland), or a sophisticated, regional military power equipped with the latest and most potent military hardware available?
Answers on a postcard.
Like · Reply · 36m · Edited
Ko Mit
Problem 1. Malaysia's population is about 10 times more than Sg's.
..................It's about 25 millions vs 2.5 millions local born and bred Sgreans.
Problem 2. The flashpoint is too close to Sg's centre than 500 kms away from old snake ...................Mahathir's KL.
Problem 3. About the loyalty of Sgrean Malay soldiers.
..................It's about 25 millions vs 2.5 millions local born and bred Sgreans.
Problem 2. The flashpoint is too close to Sg's centre than 500 kms away from old snake ...................Mahathir's KL.
Problem 3. About the loyalty of Sgrean Malay soldiers.
Michael Guan
SG minister Lan Lan. Malaysia still refuse to comply how? Since RSAF and Army are doing live exercise, why not send them to Tuas and do the live firing exercise there.
Breeke Lo
This war is not on hardware, but on resolve... Which i hope we are not lacking.
Reply · 36m
Breeke Lo
Tic for tac. Send our ships into THEIR waters and similarly claim a dispute.
Like · Reply · 13m
K Tan Don
Richard Lacqua, May I know how frequent and how prepare your civilian police control frequent demonstration of 30000 or more people on the streets ? The Malays in Malaysia will never never accept Singapore government even if they managed to conquer some states there..They even akin DAP to Singapore PAP agents. to be honest, you have sufficient and loyal citizens to defend your country but attacking and conquering neighboring countries..and maintaining law and order in the conquered territories is something Singapore will struggle to handle..well in the event you invaded us, you have about 20 millions extremely angry Malays to start wait, waiting to ambush and kill your soldiers every now and then..and you may missed out other races..we don't support our government to attack other people but if our country is being invaded, we can also join our Malays countrymen..every now and then, your parents will have to prepare to prepare funerals for their sons if they are being ambushed in guerilla warfares..also don't forget some of your soldiers are son of PRs..are they willing to die for your cause in the event that you attack us..also after that your country will be severly weakened as half of your arm forces may be Malaysia, so your defence of your motherland will be severly weakened. In history, yes, Malaysia and Singapore always quarrel, but they were merely noises and arguments..the country that actually attacked both Singapore and Malaysia is our neighbor, Indonesia. Army superiority can only win you battles for short term but in long term, you will suffer serious casualty and losses as the Malays in Malaysia will never accept Singapore govern as their ruler..you will no doubt face their wrath..they will hide in jungles and mountains and waiting to attack and ambush your people from time to time..I see a lot of hawkish comments here..get real..most Singaporeans are very comfortable to live in condos..asking their sons to get engage in war for long run when you start invading people, do the parents of your soldiers want that ? Of course if your country is being invaded, it is different story...the very good example is Afghanistan..the Russians had superior weapons but they have to pull out after decades of non-stop battles..the Americans are also suffering both economically and non stop casualty till today..you can now often hear how Americans plan to pull out from Afghanistan..
Breeke Lo
K Tan Don that's not a valid hypothesis. There will be no war between SG and MY. Period. Even if one is stupid enough to attack first, the war will be a shortlived one. We're both FPDA members, and as soon as one is attacked, the attacker will be subdued swiftly by allies Britain, Aussie and NZ. So no, there wun be war.
K Tan Don
Breeke Lo : I am just trying to explain to those war crazy mongers the result of the break-out of the war that they would like to see..true we don't have the most sophisticated weapons but we have a lot of crazy third-world angry mobs ready to pound of the Singapore invaders aftermaths.even our government have difficulty controlling them if they go crazy.
Ko Mit
Rahman Stompel - Just realized my posting/opinion is too sharp and sensitive in a multiracial army and country. And have offended .......( better leave it blank ). So I have deleted my earlier comments.
What i said It's not suitable for open discussion. Let's sweep it under carpet.....I won't say these things again....
But I maintain my believe when worst thing happens and Sg is at war with Malaysia and when Sg is bombed by Malaysian bombers, I still believe its a huge mistake to ask/order a Muslim pilot to fly a bomber to drop bombs on Malaysia's Muslims. It's too difficult and not fair for any Sg Muslim pilot to do it..... Non-Muslim Sg pilots should do the job. I still strongly believe that....
To be fair, It's also a Muslim's huge mistake if he asks/orders a Buddist pilot to fly a bomber to drop bombs on Buddist estate. Multiracial country is complicated ........but it's a reality and there is possibility....I just not good in explaining the situation.
ok closed discussion....
What i said It's not suitable for open discussion. Let's sweep it under carpet.....I won't say these things again....
But I maintain my believe when worst thing happens and Sg is at war with Malaysia and when Sg is bombed by Malaysian bombers, I still believe its a huge mistake to ask/order a Muslim pilot to fly a bomber to drop bombs on Malaysia's Muslims. It's too difficult and not fair for any Sg Muslim pilot to do it..... Non-Muslim Sg pilots should do the job. I still strongly believe that....
To be fair, It's also a Muslim's huge mistake if he asks/orders a Buddist pilot to fly a bomber to drop bombs on Buddist estate. Multiracial country is complicated ........but it's a reality and there is possibility....I just not good in explaining the situation.
ok closed discussion....
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