Death of NSF Liu Kai: Bionix that mounted Land Rover was reversing from 'simulated enemy fire'
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/death-of-nsf-liu-kai-bionix-reversed-away-simulated-enemy-fire-10945900

By Aqil Haziq Mahmud @AqilHaziqCNA

19 Nov 2018 08:11PM (Updated: 19 Nov 2018 08:30PM)

Ricky Lim

1. To extricate by reversing from a "simulated enemy fire" - thought that the vehicle commander should turn around to ensure no one or no vehicle is behind - before giving order to driver to reverse to avoid the enemy fire? Or can the driver of the Bionix do extrication upon "enemy fire" without order from the vehicle commander (even though the Bionix driver has no clear vision on its rear?)

2. The trainer in the Land Rover - should have known that the Bionix in front will have encounter "simulated enemy fire" - and will reverse to do extrication. Wonder why the trainer (as vehicle commander) allow the Land Rover to drive behind a Bionix that will likely to reverse to do extrication?

3. Thought that the tactical distance between armor vehicles during motion - should be at least a considerable distance apart for safety reason- as an armor vehicle may stop and AI troopers need to dismount from behind to do foot assault.
Wonder why the Land Rover is so close to the Bionix ---- it will also endanger the AI troopers from the Bionix if the order to do foot assault is given.

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Alvin Leong

Assuming that the AFV was under fire, it will be "buttoned up" with all hatches closed? Then the commander cannot check behind properly already. Further more, if underfire, getting away from the incoming rounds is more important than to check clear.

PS I know that this is a training exercise, but imagine if it was ingrained into the VC to check behind when an AT round was coming his way for real...

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Ng Wei Liang

If the cmdr's hatch is closed, it is down to the troopers in the back to check veh's rear as the trooper hatches are always open. Unless the troopers have already dismounted, then the cmdr still has to check the rear him/herself.

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Ricky Lim

Alvin Leong - Thought when under fire, the gunner will return fire to keep the enemy heads down while the vehicle commander will also return fire with his machine gun and at the same time issue the order to :-
(1) reverse
(2) speed up
(3) reverse and order AI troop to dismount to mount assault?

Hatch closed is not for ambush - I thought? Because squeezing the trigger to fire the machine gun will be faster than closing the hatch.

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Alvin Leong

Ricky Lim I have to say first, I was not in armor during my NS days, so I cannot say for sure.

But...if they are approaching an area where enemy contact is likely, the AFV could be buttoned up before hand. Also, if the VC is returning fire, he will be facing the front and aiming his MG, not looking at the back unless it was a rear ambush. Further more, he has to see where the enemy is to direct return fire. Finally, if under fire, self preservation is more important than what is behind him.

I know that this was a training exercise, but if they were not trained to keep themselves and their vehicle safe, they will likely be dead in a real war.

Real question is why was the LR behind it? Why did the trainer in the LR allowed it to stop

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用李

Let the investigation to give us the answer.
The rubbish fake account is good at stiring shit. It main intention is to start a stir to attack Singapore so dun fall into it trap!
Unless u r trained in the this tactical war, u can tell what is the likely cost & is definitely an accident involve those in that area.
Let it be a lesson again. We only can try to prevent.

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用李

Alvin Leong faker, trying to act like an Singapirean that serv our country. This account always try so hard to stir shit, throw fake twisted facts to run down Singapore.
Best to just to shut up unless u r trained in the warfare use by SAF!
The investigation will give Singaporean the needed truth.

I smell smell your intention even if you change this fake account name!!

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Ricky Lim

Alvin Leong - Whether under live operation, real war or training --
we are trained to :-
(1) "See where you shoot"
(2) "See where you run or withdraw"
-- we cannot do so blindly whether in :-
(1) Infantry
(2) or Armour

(1) When encounter "enemy fire" - whether simulated or real --- we have to see where are the fire - and fire back by "Commander's order" ---- not to shoot blindly.

(2) When only after keeping the "enemy heads down" ---- on "Commander's order" - decide to counter-attack, or charge forward or reverse (withdraw) ---- Commander have to "see" before giving order.

Else in Infantry - if everyone anyhow run - how to fight as a team? How to counter-attack, how to withdraw orderly without get caught by friendly fire, --- and we have to do so on Commander's order (or if casaulty, 2nd in Command takeover).

The same for armour, the driver cannot anyhow reverse without the Commander's order.
Also the Commander must appreciate the situation - before ordering reverse - making sure that behind has no vehicle - whether in real war or in training ---- not anyhow reverse.

Also i thought armour vehicle like M113 (old armour) and Bionix - don't fight with close hatch - as their main weapon are outside and need to be man by warm bodies = unlike Terrex that are remotely managed - and thus are manned close hatch.

At all time, the M113 and Bionix - need visual by warm body - whether in driving or appreciate the terrain - normally done by vehicle commander. 
Drivers usually drive close hatch.

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Ricky Lim

The immediate reaction when encounter enemy fire --- is to fire back to suppress the enemy fire - not to anyhow run.

The Bionix 40/50 main weapons are very powerful together with the vehicle commander's GPMG -- will have suppress the enemy fire and keep their head down or even exterminate the enemies giving the ambush range are so close.

As long as our main gunner has the chance to squeeze the trigger of the 40/50 main gun - the enemies will have very little chance to survive - given the awesome firepower of the point and area firepower of the 40/50. (Reversing the vehicle to run is a poor option and should be a 2nd option).

Vehicle commander will then have time to "appreciate the situation" - whether to charge forward or reverse.

Turning his head back - is less than 1 second for him to make decision.

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Alvin Leong

用李 So you are saying my NS service certificate issued by MINDEF is fake? Then better call police to arrest me for having fake documents. Also tell them that I am holding on to SAF property (uniform, etc) illegally. I waiting! It will be great if I never wasted 2 1/2 years serving in the useless SAF.

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Alvin Leong

Ricky Lim I will hardly describe Bionix as having powerful weapons. It is at best, a modern version of the old style M8 or SdKfz 221, which purposes were to scout for and report the enemy and withdraw when faced with a MBT as their little cannons have no chance of getting through real armor.

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Ricky Lim

Alvin Leong - Bionix like Terrex are armed with :-
a 12.7 mm machine gun and a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher mounted in a one-man turret. The CIS 40 automatic grenade launcher is belt-fed ready-to-use rounds.

The double weapon system are very high sustained rate automatic weapon system - with 1 squeeze of the dual weapon system ---- will have "melted" any personnel or other Armor target (not including main battle tank) around the vicinity it fires.

The dual weapon system - cover not only "pointed target" - ie. need direct hit of the bullet for the kill - but as it has a grenade launcher as dual weapon - area target by shrapnel of the grenade will cause explosion covering a relatively "large circumference" - rending personnel and light armour no chance of survival within the vicinity.

The weapon system is unlike a Main Battle Tank - that need to load the tank round one by one and the reloading is relatively slow.

Just one trigger of the dual weapon system - will have many rounds fire off causing a "machine gun effect plus many mortar round explosion effect" - where enemy will have very little chance of survival.

You should witness Bionix live firing - to see the awesome firepower of the Bionix.

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Ricky Lim

So if the enemies are infantry or APC firing at the Bionix - return fire will have exterminate the enemies as oppose to reversing - and neutralise the danger.

If the enemies are Main Battle Tank - the MBT must be very accurate to score the 1st direct hit, else if it miss its 1st round, it will take sometimes to reload the second round - and the Bionix will still be able to return fire to harass the MBT (the explosive effects of the dual weapon system will have concussion impact on the MBT drivers, commanders and gunners and delay their retaliatory response - though may not be able to penetrate the armour) while charging forward or reverse and escape the MBT.

To summarise :- return fire on the enemies fire - is still the best extrication option before deciding to reverse or speed up (with eyes open and not do so blindly).

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