Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pmd-fire-safety-ul2272-retailers-left-disappointed-lta-10717460
(Updated: )
Remember this when election day come, users and retailers. Who screw you up.
Like · Reply · 1 · 1h
Patrick Tan
Using UL standards is really silly, only applies to US market. It's pretty obvious whoever decides on this did not do his/her homework.
I think if you see how PMD batteries burst into fire and burn down a flat - you probably will not say this.
And there are many houses that are burned down when charging PMD batteries.
PMD has just evovled only recently - thus i guess safety standard is few and far in between.
But is safety standard required --- after witnessing some live events and recorded CCTVs/videos that saw PMD batteries burst into flame when charging and burnt down the whole house ----- safety become very important - as property and lives are involved.
And there are many houses that are burned down when charging PMD batteries.
PMD has just evovled only recently - thus i guess safety standard is few and far in between.
But is safety standard required --- after witnessing some live events and recorded CCTVs/videos that saw PMD batteries burst into flame when charging and burnt down the whole house ----- safety become very important - as property and lives are involved.
黄柏安 - Because many have realised PMDs during charging can cause it to burst into flames.
Safety in charging PMD batteries is really a big issue.
Safety in charging PMD batteries is really a big issue.
Pradeeban Kalaivarnan
Ricky Lim you know the flame is not cause my batteries itself but due to damage that happen to bad maintenance, footpaths conditions right?
Did you know that escooter uses 18650 and similar battery an exact same uses in your torches, USB fan, number of power banks?
I agree on the risk and incidents happen. But your reason and gov enforced on UL is not going to help with the real problem at hand.
What are u going to say when UL cert device explodes later?
Did you know that escooter uses 18650 and similar battery an exact same uses in your torches, USB fan, number of power banks?
I agree on the risk and incidents happen. But your reason and gov enforced on UL is not going to help with the real problem at hand.
What are u going to say when UL cert device explodes later?
Pradeeban Kalaivarnan -
Pse read this about PMD lithium-ion batteries.
power bank, smartphones etc is 1 cell. PMD batteries can be as much as 35 cells - and when exploded - it is a small bomb - that quickly engulf the whole flat.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/.../lithium-ion-battery...
Pse read this about PMD lithium-ion batteries.
power bank, smartphones etc is 1 cell. PMD batteries can be as much as 35 cells - and when exploded - it is a small bomb - that quickly engulf the whole flat.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/.../lithium-ion-battery...
黄柏安 - I agree that even charging in corridor is a more dangerous fire hazard as it block the corridor escape route - and it can spread to more flats.
That is why, fire safety for the PMD is very crucial.
Just google on "PMD battery fire burn down houses in Singapore" ---- you can see so many news report.
I also witness a live fire where PMD batteries exploded and burn down a flat - and the whole block got power black out - and trigger a few explosion.
Luckily no one was killed and injured --- but the impact of that fire is horrific.
That is why, fire safety for the PMD is very crucial.
Just google on "PMD battery fire burn down houses in Singapore" ---- you can see so many news report.
I also witness a live fire where PMD batteries exploded and burn down a flat - and the whole block got power black out - and trigger a few explosion.
Luckily no one was killed and injured --- but the impact of that fire is horrific.
Pradeeban Kalaivarnan True, who can surely say the UL certified PMD will not explode, cause fire and injuries ? If this happens, what will be the response of LTA ?
Andrew Wang - UL2272 was published in November 21, 2016 - and it is used as standard in US for all PMDs.
That means for about more than 1 year, this safety standard have been applied to PMDs in US --- presumably with no fire explosion.
I think no one can guarantee anything will not go wrong -- but presumably - few will go wrong - if the safety standard is extremely robust - i guess.
Thinking aloud, in Singapore many electrical appliances have to comply with electrical safety standard - isn't it?
That means for about more than 1 year, this safety standard have been applied to PMDs in US --- presumably with no fire explosion.
I think no one can guarantee anything will not go wrong -- but presumably - few will go wrong - if the safety standard is extremely robust - i guess.
Thinking aloud, in Singapore many electrical appliances have to comply with electrical safety standard - isn't it?
Now everyone is unhappy about the pmds. the users cannot use non UL pmds, the sellers cannot sell non UL pmds, the non users wanted the pmds to be banned yesterday. the authority is unhappy about the fire risk, the politicians are unhappy to lose votes. the question is who is the idiot that started it without much considerations, just bite the bullet.
Andrew Wang
That is the key point in PMD discussions. Never set the standards first before allowing PMD for import, certification, sales, customer awareness of fire in PMD and now implement the new standard.
If this process follows strictly like in professional qualifications like engineers, lawyers where all persons are certified competent before allowed to practise their professions, then we will be all happy situations where there is no after thought rules and regulations and new standards to follow. Taking a soft approach has never worked at all.
If this process follows strictly like in professional qualifications like engineers, lawyers where all persons are certified competent before allowed to practise their professions, then we will be all happy situations where there is no after thought rules and regulations and new standards to follow. Taking a soft approach has never worked at all.
Reply · 21m
Andrew Wang - Singapore in an incubator, proof-of-concept hubs for many innovation for many cutting edge technologies - in which learning experience can later be adopted and can export to the World.
This is our competitive edge being a small nation, and a first starter of innovation.
Thus you can see many PMDs pilots, driverless car pilots, drone, Smart Nation, shared bike, private-hired cab etc.... in pilot projects, incubation, sandbox etc.
As technologies evolve and ready for adoption - there will be something called "chaotic theory to adoption" as safety standard or implementation standard evolved.
The 1st well established PMD safety standard seems to be the UL2272 - developed in late 2016.
Thus if Singapore want to stay ahead of competition, and disruptive tech - "chaotic theory to adoption" - could be a condition to stay as we pilot many innovations.
This is our competitive edge being a small nation, and a first starter of innovation.
Thus you can see many PMDs pilots, driverless car pilots, drone, Smart Nation, shared bike, private-hired cab etc.... in pilot projects, incubation, sandbox etc.
As technologies evolve and ready for adoption - there will be something called "chaotic theory to adoption" as safety standard or implementation standard evolved.
The 1st well established PMD safety standard seems to be the UL2272 - developed in late 2016.
Thus if Singapore want to stay ahead of competition, and disruptive tech - "chaotic theory to adoption" - could be a condition to stay as we pilot many innovations.
We can adopt mature technologies later when everything stabilise - but what it means that - we will be a "late adopter" of innovation -- and we will lose our competitive edge.
Hlt Tan
one soluton is to build indenpendent, automated PMD charging stations around every housing astates like electric car charging station that would remove fire risk away from HDB flat.
with regards to cost, then it has to discuss among retailers n gov. on what kind of busines model the built charging station is going to operated.
with regards to cost, then it has to discuss among retailers n gov. on what kind of busines model the built charging station is going to operated.
Winston Ling
i think for those who have bought e-scooters lately its a chance its not certified, and it will be illegal in 3 years time, so its best to wait until retailers bring in Newer models which are compliant to this standard. for those retailers who have lots of stock of those non-compliant ones, i think they have to probably find a way to sell it off to neighbouring countries like indonesia or Malaysia who have not yet enforce this certification on the scooters. Because its unlikely someone will want to buy something that is going to be "illegal" in 2021.
unless the buyer dunno about this new law upcoming
unless the buyer dunno about this new law upcoming
The problem with e-scooters is their BATTERY is very high mA, much much higher than that of a "exploding" Note 7 battery. and a lot of these e-scooters have battery cells from China or other sources which can overheat if left to charge for long hours. of cos there are better ones who use safer and more branded battery cells. but the move to certify them, makes its better for the consumers that they know the product they are buying with the certification is less likely to burst into flames from overcharging.
用李
Andrew Wang
U r rite in a way.
But isn't most fake account, terrorist account & mentally ill account wanted freedom, wanted less control & want removal this removal tat??
This is what happen when given too much freedom. Most retailers push to more hungry profit, just sell anything. User craziness try ways to harm he/herself & worst innocent.
So who to blame actually we had to search our souls.
U r rite in a way.
But isn't most fake account, terrorist account & mentally ill account wanted freedom, wanted less control & want removal this removal tat??
This is what happen when given too much freedom. Most retailers push to more hungry profit, just sell anything. User craziness try ways to harm he/herself & worst innocent.
So who to blame actually we had to search our souls.
黄柏安 - Is drone trial and error?
Is PMD trial and error?
Is driverless car trial and error?
Is new medication trial and error?
Is aeroplane in the beginning trial and error?
Is electrical product in the beginning trial and error?
Is blockchain trial and error?
Is building high rise trial and error initially? Is mass building of HDB flats trial and error?
Is Belt and Road trial and error?
Is Ecocity trial and error?
Is SERs trial and error?
Is VERs trial and errot?
Is ITMs (Industry Transformation Map) trial and error?
Is Skillfuture trial and error?
Is Newater trial and error (and the 1st in the World) - recycle urine and faeces trial and error?
Is Desalination water trial and error?
Is private hire cab trial and error?
Is shared bike trial and error?
Is one model of samsung handphone that burst into flame trial and error? - if don't use how do people know it will burst into flame?
etc etc etc
There must be an "early adopters of innovation" - else Singapore will lose out badly if we are a laggard.
Is PMD trial and error?
Is driverless car trial and error?
Is new medication trial and error?
Is aeroplane in the beginning trial and error?
Is electrical product in the beginning trial and error?
Is blockchain trial and error?
Is building high rise trial and error initially? Is mass building of HDB flats trial and error?
Is CPF trial and error?
Is Ecocity trial and error?
Is SERs trial and error?
Is VERs trial and errot?
Is ITMs (Industry Transformation Map) trial and error?
Is Skillfuture trial and error?
Is Newater trial and error (and the 1st in the World) - recycle urine and faeces trial and error?
Is Desalination water trial and error?
Is private hire cab trial and error?
Is shared bike trial and error?
Is one model of samsung handphone that burst into flame trial and error? - if don't use how do people know it will burst into flame?
etc etc etc
There must be an "early adopters of innovation" - else Singapore will lose out badly if we are a laggard.
There are reasonably pilot adoption of innovation - exploring all possible problems or issues. But mass adoption and subsequently problem that will arise will only surface when project start to run in. This is the time to resolve the issue on run-in.
Evidently you are not in the R&D field.
And evidently you are not involved in policy making.
Isn't it all R&D trial and error?
UL2272 comes about when hovercraft burst into fire in airplane, public places, houses etc in US - and US commission UL to do a safety standard on hovercraft and subsequently roll out to all PMDs - this is how R&D -> pilot adoption -> mass adoption comes about.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
Every innovation will churn out a new industry.
PMD when successful and ready for mass adoption - will churn out the PMD industry. This is an extension to bicycle.
Assume 100,000 buy PMDs at $1,000 - a $100 million PMD industry has been created. People earn from this business and jobs are created - and the Economy richer by $100 million. If we don't early adopt PMDs - Singapore Economy will be poorer by $100 million.
Similarly, other new innovation like driverless car, drone, robotics, Smart Nation, shared bike, private hired cab, eCommerce etc - are disruptors that are starting a new industries - creating new businesses and new jobs for people in Singapore and contributing and increasing our GDP economic growth.
We cannot be a laggard - unless we want our Economy to stagnant, people not enough jobs, people cannot start new businesses.
PMD when successful and ready for mass adoption - will churn out the PMD industry. This is an extension to bicycle.
Assume 100,000 buy PMDs at $1,000 - a $100 million PMD industry has been created. People earn from this business and jobs are created - and the Economy richer by $100 million. If we don't early adopt PMDs - Singapore Economy will be poorer by $100 million.
Similarly, other new innovation like driverless car, drone, robotics, Smart Nation, shared bike, private hired cab, eCommerce etc - are disruptors that are starting a new industries - creating new businesses and new jobs for people in Singapore and contributing and increasing our GDP economic growth.
We cannot be a laggard - unless we want our Economy to stagnant, people not enough jobs, people cannot start new businesses.
There will be some risks to new innovation - be it business risk, usage risk, product risk etc --- that we will need to manage and resolve.
But we cannot dump new innovation just because there are some risk - else we will miss the boat and be left behind economically, financially and become a laid back Country.
But we cannot dump new innovation just because there are some risk - else we will miss the boat and be left behind economically, financially and become a laid back Country.
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