Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/shanmugam-hong-kong-protests-wishful-thinking-china-system-11800102
(Updated: )
Danny Lum
China has “competent, (the) best people” in its government. And over 35 years, the country has lifted 500 million to 600 million people out of poverty, Mr Shanmugam said.
“No country has done that in history, in 35 years,” he said. “Not enough credit is given for that. It’s a huge achievement.”
Could that have been achieved under another system of government? Can another political system do better for the people of China, compared to the current system? There is none – and ideology must square with reality, Mr Shanmugam said.
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Posted on:- 25 Jul 2019 07:01PM (Updated: 25 Jul 2019 07:15PM)
Danny Lum
(1) In retrospect, these HK black protestors fail to size up the context they are in.
(2) HK is part of China. China will not let HK declare independent - and this HK protestors fool themselves by demanding so.
China will commit troop if these HK protestors force this agenda through --- this is the 1st moment of truth that they must realise and accept.
(3) HK protestors demand that their governor must be elected by universal suffrage.
But HK governor during British time are never voted in - they are appointed by UK.
Similarly, the currect governor are "elected" by a group of committee (improvement from appointment).
So to China - the protestors demand is excessive and unreasonable. ---- this is the 2nd moment of truth.
(4) HK protestors must realise that China will gradually exert influence in HK from now and all the way until 2047 where they will then takeover.
HK protestors must not be naive to think the China will not do anything - and come 2047 - take over in a "cold turkey" manner --- then start to infuse China mainlanders in, China system and law come in - and brawl will broke up ---- as the 2 systems are vastly different from 2 opposing ends. -- this is the 3rd moment of truth.
(5) China will emphasize economy and social well-being like in the mainland --- while enforcing a less open system in politics, where China will put high priority in stability - political stability, social order and economic order - this is the 4th moment of truth that HK people must realise and accept.
(6) If HK protestors fail to accept the above 4 moment of truth ---- the deadlock will continue and the protest will not stop --- until a stronger force come down to restore order.
Like · Reply · 1m
“No country has done that in history, in 35 years,” he said. “Not enough credit is given for that. It’s a huge achievement.”
Could that have been achieved under another system of government? Can another political system do better for the people of China, compared to the current system? There is none – and ideology must square with reality, Mr Shanmugam said.
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Posted on:- 25 Jul 2019 07:01PM (Updated: 25 Jul 2019 07:15PM)
Danny Lum
(1) In retrospect, these HK black protestors fail to size up the context they are in.
(2) HK is part of China. China will not let HK declare independent - and this HK protestors fool themselves by demanding so.
China will commit troop if these HK protestors force this agenda through --- this is the 1st moment of truth that they must realise and accept.
(3) HK protestors demand that their governor must be elected by universal suffrage.
But HK governor during British time are never voted in - they are appointed by UK.
Similarly, the currect governor are "elected" by a group of committee (improvement from appointment).
So to China - the protestors demand is excessive and unreasonable. ---- this is the 2nd moment of truth.
(4) HK protestors must realise that China will gradually exert influence in HK from now and all the way until 2047 where they will then takeover.
HK protestors must not be naive to think the China will not do anything - and come 2047 - take over in a "cold turkey" manner --- then start to infuse China mainlanders in, China system and law come in - and brawl will broke up ---- as the 2 systems are vastly different from 2 opposing ends. -- this is the 3rd moment of truth.
(5) China will emphasize economy and social well-being like in the mainland --- while enforcing a less open system in politics, where China will put high priority in stability - political stability, social order and economic order - this is the 4th moment of truth that HK people must realise and accept.
(6) If HK protestors fail to accept the above 4 moment of truth ---- the deadlock will continue and the protest will not stop --- until a stronger force come down to restore order.
Like · Reply · 1m
Like · Reply · 1m
Danny Lum
Danny Lum
(1) There is no right or wrong about a political system - it is whether the Society are ready for it - whether remaining as communism or slowly evolved into democracy.
(2) First and foremost, the Governance must be able to ensure :-
- Political stability
- Social order
- Economic order.
(3) No one can guarantee that a democratic system - will not throw a Society into chaos.
--- We can see many examples of populist, nationalist, protectionist Government on the rise through democracy.
--- Communism also doesn't guarantee success.
(4) But as for now China adopting Communism in politics but market economy in economics seems to work very well for China - as more than 400 million people have been elevated from poverty - and turn China economy to be the 2nd largest Economy in the World - and will likely to become the larget Economy in the World given another decade of economic growth.
(5) I must say that I am not an admirer for Communism - as democracy work for our Country.
But this does not mean that China is ready for democracy at this point in time.
(2) First and foremost, the Governance must be able to ensure :-
- Political stability
- Social order
- Economic order.
(3) No one can guarantee that a democratic system - will not throw a Society into chaos.
--- We can see many examples of populist, nationalist, protectionist Government on the rise through democracy.
--- Communism also doesn't guarantee success.
(4) But as for now China adopting Communism in politics but market economy in economics seems to work very well for China - as more than 400 million people have been elevated from poverty - and turn China economy to be the 2nd largest Economy in the World - and will likely to become the larget Economy in the World given another decade of economic growth.
(5) I must say that I am not an admirer for Communism - as democracy work for our Country.
But this does not mean that China is ready for democracy at this point in time.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Danny Lum
“Hong Kong is part of China. Beijing will expect Hong Kong to adapt to the political structure that prevails in China. Adapt, not adopt," he said.
“Some of the protestors seem to think that China will allow a very different system in Hong Kong. That is wishful thinking replacing reality,” he said. “How will China's leaders look at it?
“You sing the US national anthem, you speak in Mandarin and tell the Chinese tourists to go back and take these ideas back to China. The leaders could think Hong Kong is just the start, for something that some people want to hope to start in the rest of China.”
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Danny Lum
(1) Communism work for China now - as China is too big and central control works for them.
Else China will end up like USSR - break apart.
(2) As long as China don't export communism to other Countries - it is fine for us.
(3) China has some sort of "democracy" - eg. their leaders are voted by a group of elite party, business, professionals --- but not by their people at large.
(4) It will take time for China to evolve their political system.
But China is not ready for democracy as of now.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
“Some of the protestors seem to think that China will allow a very different system in Hong Kong. That is wishful thinking replacing reality,” he said. “How will China's leaders look at it?
“You sing the US national anthem, you speak in Mandarin and tell the Chinese tourists to go back and take these ideas back to China. The leaders could think Hong Kong is just the start, for something that some people want to hope to start in the rest of China.”
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Danny Lum
(1) Communism work for China now - as China is too big and central control works for them.
Else China will end up like USSR - break apart.
(2) As long as China don't export communism to other Countries - it is fine for us.
(3) China has some sort of "democracy" - eg. their leaders are voted by a group of elite party, business, professionals --- but not by their people at large.
(4) It will take time for China to evolve their political system.
But China is not ready for democracy as of now.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Like · Reply · 1m
Dong Lei
Danny Lum Exporting of ideology is not a crime. Isn't democracy also an ideology which is being exported to the whole world by the western countries almost forcefully? Why is it so wrong for another country to export an alternative system? This is very much their right for freedom of expression. Keep your mind open! Democracy is very unlikely to be the ultimate best system for all countries.
Liat Kuan
But will Hongkongers be able to give up their pro-democracy drive & protest? Wishful thinking too.
I Love Video Games
They will finally faced up to reality that it is not possible to realise their dream. No central government is going to change just because of a minority trying to force a change. It will caused upheaval in other part of the country. HongKong is now just a very small contributor to the national economy.
Charles Chong
Hkg does not contribute to China GDP...all the money kept by hkg. Hkg does not pay for the defence of hkg...all contributed by the cities in china.
Charles Chong
Thanks to China, hkg able to attract mnc biz via hkg into china. This is a gift from china n not an entitlement given go them.
So, this ungrateful hkg protestors better re think what they are doing against China.
Hkg just another small city in china, the worst for hkg, that means hkg will never be able to recover again and shenzhen plus the rest of the smaller cities will replace hkg.
So, this ungrateful hkg protestors better re think what they are doing against China.
Hkg just another small city in china, the worst for hkg, that means hkg will never be able to recover again and shenzhen plus the rest of the smaller cities will replace hkg.
Cy Wong
There is an article 23 of the Basic Law which require HK SAR to enact law to criminalise action of betrayal and treason to China. There were protests by pro democracy supporters and the proposed enactment was called off. The basic law state that it WOULD be the ultimate goal for direct election of CE. Head of Liasion in HK said " OK. BUT on conditions everyone pledge loyalties to China." Pro democracy refused. Would anyone in his right mind allow a group of persons who stated intention is to betray you should the chance present itself exist. If not for Taiwan or the present of majority supportive of China, China would have squeeze the life out of HK.
Francis Ong
Do you think he dare to say that if he is politician in Hong Kong? In the first place, he will most probably be one and in the second, he will most probably be hiding now. He mentioned that China has the best people which raise 500~600 million people out of poverty in 35 years. What about our "top talent" ministers who command the highest pay in the world? They make Singapore into a slave driving country and made its own people work into their dying age in 20 years ! How dare they still tell the nation they are the best and still pay themselves undeservely millions ?
Farhana Marican
Agreed. Strongly. In 1960 we got Pulou Senang. Surrounded by Sea.
18 people (Prisoner) Hang. No longer have Pulou Senang..Now have Palau Singapura surroundings by sea... In a model Prison Country. You can't speak to much, if you do you're in trouble. Like model communist country 🐯
18 people (Prisoner) Hang. No longer have Pulou Senang..Now have Palau Singapura surroundings by sea... In a model Prison Country. You can't speak to much, if you do you're in trouble. Like model communist country 🐯
CK Foo
If you deem so, then why did you get your education here? You should have migrated to where you think is a better place for you. I am a proud Singaporean and I do not agree your comment that we are made to "slave" for 20 years.. What a one sided comment... Leave Singapore since you feel so bad about it...
Tan Tuang Ser
Farhana Marican ...disappointing..most ppl like to have cheap talk...honestly how many can be accountable with what they say...first of all Singapore is a super sensitive economy no unrest is acceptable as it will cripple the entire country..if individuals do not have good solutions to problem they say then why complain...our systems..finally there are no perfect governance...if you expect so...ask yourself if you are perfect in the first place
WaiWai Go
Francis... I suggest you brush up your comprehension skills.... he is refering to the best leaders in China to lift a few hundred million people out of poverty.... and there is nothing wrong in earning a couple of million bucks if you are able, even for government leaders. If you are able, you can earn that too.... but again with your comprehension skills, I doubt it.
Raymond Chan
Sky Lin In Honduras people are protesting against the government but no reports in the western media. why? Because the corrupt government is supported by and an ally of US! Be smart, always read more and be well informed. The west a great hypocritic, you can be the greatest dictator but they will support you if you are on their side.
Teo Huai Wei Edmund
Some questions I would ask him:
"“Some of the protestors seem to think that China will allow a very different system in Hong Kong. That is wishful thinking replacing reality,” he said."
There are, however, mechanisms to accord greater local autonomy to specific provinces which already exists under the PRC system. There are already five autonomous regions in China. So why is it wishful thinking if the HKers hope that the PRC may accord at least some level of local autonomy to them too post 2047?
“You sing the US national anthem, you speak in Mandarin and tell the Chinese tourists to go back …See More
"“Some of the protestors seem to think that China will allow a very different system in Hong Kong. That is wishful thinking replacing reality,” he said."
There are, however, mechanisms to accord greater local autonomy to specific provinces which already exists under the PRC system. There are already five autonomous regions in China. So why is it wishful thinking if the HKers hope that the PRC may accord at least some level of local autonomy to them too post 2047?
“You sing the US national anthem, you speak in Mandarin and tell the Chinese tourists to go back …See More
Su Zhi Rong
@Teo Huai Wei Edmund, what he meant they wave US flags during the protest, so they like the "white" US as their father, so of course they will sing their "white" father anthem lah, hehehehe
Tan Tuang Ser
First of all there are no communism ideology this days democracy n human rights have been abused n built with hypocriscy..
Su Zhi Rong
Eng Hong Ong, bcos many of them are anti China & Russia especially the medias frm Western nations. But they will keep silence to criticise or turn over blind eyes on Saudi Arabia, Brunei & Vietnam who are also non democratic & single party govt. Now you see how hypocrites they are, hehehehe
Teo Huai Wei Edmund
Eng Hong Ong of course I know that China is not exactly a communist state. However, we can't escape the fact that the CCP is still expousing communist ideals to their subjects, and they are, for instance, still brainwashing people in Xinjiang about it.
China is more of a authoritarian capitalist state, although unlike us, they basically have a dictator ruling the country now.
Which is why I ask that third question. With comments like that made by ministers, are we surprised that our ruling party supporters are now brazenly taking the view that democracy is bad for Singapore? That they rather have no elections so that their beloved PAP can rule Singapore forever, because opposition supporters are too stupid for us to care about them?
China is more of a authoritarian capitalist state, although unlike us, they basically have a dictator ruling the country now.
Which is why I ask that third question. With comments like that made by ministers, are we surprised that our ruling party supporters are now brazenly taking the view that democracy is bad for Singapore? That they rather have no elections so that their beloved PAP can rule Singapore forever, because opposition supporters are too stupid for us to care about them?
Teo Huai Wei Edmund
Su Zhi Rong the reason is simple. Both Russia and China are actively challenging the current world order and want to impose their values upon the world. I don't see Saudi Arabia, Brunei or Vietnam attempting to do so, so why would anyone care?
Teo Huai Wei Edmund
Tan Tuang Ser like how every "communist" state abuses that label to run dictatorships? If North Korea calling themselves the Democratic People's Republic of Korea isn't the epitome of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.
Tan Tuang Ser
Edmund world order as the words already implied is determine by the all countries not just by ignorant fools of the America, western ideology ...ppl like you are full of hypocricy using small little microscopic issues like a name of north Korea which have no relevance...perhaps I suggest u call yourself differently remove your Chinese name totally ...
Charles Chong
Get a life...
Communism means end of the road?
How much you know of China communism?
Look at Soviet Union. Thsnks to your thinking similar to USA and the western ideology, communism is EVIL, see what happened to the Soviet union. They were spotted into many smaller countries, and they are now still struggling n fighting...in the last 40 years, have these countries developed n better than China?
Nobody can say what system is best for whom. Facts has shown to you!
Communism means end of the road?
How much you know of China communism?
Look at Soviet Union. Thsnks to your thinking similar to USA and the western ideology, communism is EVIL, see what happened to the Soviet union. They were spotted into many smaller countries, and they are now still struggling n fighting...in the last 40 years, have these countries developed n better than China?
Nobody can say what system is best for whom. Facts has shown to you!
Su Zhi Rong
Teo Huai Wei Edmund, did any Chinese or Russian citizens approach & encourage or influence you to say their values are good, etc. Did anyone of them tell u their communism is good while ours are bad, etc, hehehehe. Only the West & some Western people do as they always think their systems are better, hehehe
Su Zhi Rong
Teo Huai Wei Edmund, look at the people of democratic US who voted a clown President that make US not great but an Idiot. Also pls look at the so called democratic UK where all their clown leaders & politicians hv bn wasting their times arguing & fighting over their unresolved Brexit issue resulting their country cannot move fwd, resignation & changing of several of their PMs, their economy suffers, the people also suffer, etc, hehehe
Derrek Chang
Fully agreed with Shanmugan view. Who is there to compliment and write good cover story how the Chinese govt lifted 500-600 million people out of poverty ? Yet the western media randomly choose news to reflect of the negative side of China at most time. You are right. Many democratic and liberal nations voice their votes for party into the government through blinded promises, yet the new government is not able to bring people out of poverty and nation's fallen deeper into debts etc.... There are lot of biases and the world know that. Hongkong youngsters need to know that too, else they will end up become a hooligans to the nations' rather than being a contributor.
Tan Kee Hian
I think our minister is missing the point. Yes for China Chinese, their standard of living has improved over the past 10-20 years. That is why there is no general protests in China. How about Hong Kong residents? Did their standard of living group or down recently? It is pointless praising the good the China government has done for China Chinese in a discussion about Hong Kong protests... the more relevant point should be what good has the China government done for Hong Kong in the past 20 years since 1997? People get fed up when their standard of living drop with respect to what they are used to. Our dear minister would do well to remember that.
Tan Tuang Ser
Hong Kong standard of living have failed because of democracy, human rights n free economy which is abused by the rich..
Augustine Teo
Eng Hong Ong
These opposing bums keep weighing different systems . Go read books la. Systems vigorously adapt to changing times.
Make money and live well and die and let others use your resources and remake.
These opposing bums keep weighing different systems . Go read books la. Systems vigorously adapt to changing times.
Make money and live well and die and let others use your resources and remake.
Su Zhi Rong
Shanmugam, yes l totally agreed with you. Many anti China medias & people who support, encourage & instigate the HK people to protest to cause riots, fighting among the local people & protestors, destroying their own country, economy, etc. are very evils. Medias are reported by reporters who are also humans with emotions & bias. So l hope many people to read carefully the news, videos, etc before jumping to conclusions, hehehehe
Dong Lei
the root cause for what's happening in HK is really not about democracy or communism. it's a power struggle between the western country bloc and China. The protesters are merely pawns and puppets controlled/instigated by foreign powers to cause trouble to and distract China. These idiots are destroying their own society and livelihood for their western masters' interests. Just looking at how they cowered themselves to the American and UK politicians is making anyone with dignity disgusted.
Daryl Shiraz Tan
when he said that ’500-600 million chinese have been lifted out of proverty, over the past 35years“. it is a great achievement, everyone know that and no denying that feat. however it echoed what i have been saying about this hong kong protests. when hong kong was returned back to them 20 years ago, they were regarded as an asian financial hub, well developed and full of potential. what came after was the one country two systems, leaving hong kong to themself while they took care of their own country.
now shenzhen a city opposite of hong kong have developed, and become even better than them.…See More
now shenzhen a city opposite of hong kong have developed, and become even better than them.…See More
Pinkpink Pink
A violent storm is brewing outside and the wind vane is spinning out of control other than that, no further comment.
Nc Prakash
1. Why do we insist other countries to not comment on our domestic affairs and we take the liberty to do so
2. Why do we mention the opinion of Singaporean’s when we don’t have such statistics
2. Why do we mention the opinion of Singaporean’s when we don’t have such statistics
John Low
The political wisdom of our minister is somewhat questionable.
They are too simplistic.
Citizens are not political creatures and they are not out to champion democracy for the sake of democracy. Their forethoughts inside their mind is food, food and food. If your future of getting food on the table, a roof over your head and job to fund the above is threatened, you are ready to go on the street.
They are too simplistic.
Citizens are not political creatures and they are not out to champion democracy for the sake of democracy. Their forethoughts inside their mind is food, food and food. If your future of getting food on the table, a roof over your head and job to fund the above is threatened, you are ready to go on the street.
Tan Tuang Ser
Our minister point of view is perfectly alright...it is your brain dead is the main issue...
Hong Kong young thugs may be poor but food n opportunity may be threatened...but everywhere in the world is the same even in singapore..sharpen your own skills n learn to adapt n carve your place in society ...if you want free lunch no more in this fast progressing world ...their laziness n negative attitude is contributes to their own problem besides the government
Hong Kong young thugs may be poor but food n opportunity may be threatened...but everywhere in the world is the same even in singapore..sharpen your own skills n learn to adapt n carve your place in society ...if you want free lunch no more in this fast progressing world ...their laziness n negative attitude is contributes to their own problem besides the government
Uuthyam Sun
CHINA HAS BECOME rich as in its govt not as in it's people...when the govt is rich and that does not truelly reflect in it's people sooner or later trouble will brew..that is what happened to USSR...CHINA Became strong but in true form it does not have any true friends except a few...while AMERICA more or less have half of the world as thier war partners...AMERICA ..is close buddies with japan.. s.korea..england ..france ..Germany...australia ..newsealand...now even india irag...and pakistan...and not to mention many other states.......CHINA WITH ASIA must unify with INDIA to truly form it's own BLOCK...buy alas china is on a grabbing mission.....
Tan Tuang Ser
I cannot help correcting you...America also do not have true friends at all...in the real world most countries are just looking at what is most beneficial to them ..don't be naive
Uuthyam Sun
Tan Tuang Ser ..u are right they are looking after own intetest...and that interest is for them to work together...look at past history...
Charles Chong
Good n nice to hear from Sham about China!
This is facts and you are making sense from them.
This is facts and you are making sense from them.
WaiWai Go
As usual, the Singapore Minister gave a view that is realistic, factual and clinical. However, I urge the Minister look at the perspective of unhappy Hong Kong people and understand why they are apprehensive about China and its central government. For starters,the promise of one country and two systems is heavily compromised and Hong Kong people is not able to fully exercise their democratic rights as some seats in the government are given to business interest groups who are strongly aligned with the CCP. Secondly, let us consider that
a. Millions of Hong Kong people protest against the ex…See More
a. Millions of Hong Kong people protest against the ex…See More
Raymond Chan
We want a stable and peaceful HK but if they chose chaos and violence, we should not be apologetic about it as it benefit us and Asean countries. Our police force and army are national servicemen. If we have mobilisation of our NS men, you are fighting and harming your own sons and brothers. Singaporeans are not so foolish. HK are naive thinkers. They talk about liberty, what liberty did they not get? Talk about equality, that is their governance not China, they talked about freedom, what freedom, personal fredom that is did they not have? Talk about direct election, it is an illusion which smart thinkers would know.
Ted Jones
Useful lapdog of PM Lee spewing his idiotic mouth to provoke believers in freedom and democracy to be singled out for "extermination" by lawsuits and imprisonment. The world will be a better place if this guy stops talking!
Edward Haxor
Why are Singaporeans messing around with Hong Kong’s issues? Shouldn’t we be more concerned with our coming General Election? EB should be releasing the dates and it is getting bored after waiting for so long
Oliver Weng
“So from that perspective, I think Singaporeans see that and they say if this happens in Singapore, it will be very troublesome and they are grateful that it is not happening here.”
OK Simple Just don't force the lion jump over the wall
OK Simple Just don't force the lion jump over the wall
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