REACH National Dialogue - Views on POFMA
16 Dec 2019

https://www.gov.sg/factually/content/corrections-on-falsehoods-posted-by-sdp
The Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manupulation Act (POFMA) Office was instructed by the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) to issue Correction Directions on a statement, which sought to mislead, stoke fear and anxiety among local PMETs.
Given the current uncertain economic climate, it is understandable that Singaporeans feel anxious about employment prospects and retrenchments. This made it all the more critical that public debate on important issue of jobs is based on accurate facts and not distortions of falsehoods.

What are your views on the role of POFMA to ensure that accurate facts are put out?
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) People should have right to correct facts - and not subject to half-truth or false sensational news.
(2) Social media have been widely used as tool - and abused by many people (including political parties) - to spread news that are half-truth or fake news to achieve their political objectives (very good example are HK unrest - with disastrous impact that throw the whole society into chaos).
(3) Thus I am of the opinion that if anyone particularly political parties or groups - used social media to spread falsehood to create confusion, chaos, doubt, to achieve their political goals - with an attempt to destabilise Singapore and cause chaos or unrest - (worst that has similar effect like HK - where a stable city is thrown into vicious cycle of chaos) ---- I will support a policy that nip the source at the bud.
(4) POFMA look like the sharp and right policy - that nip the source at the bud --- by immediately correct wrong facts from emerging and correct the fake news --- and at the same time "issue warning" that this parties have raised a wrong fact to cause mischief.
(5) Thus I feel that SDP (wrong facts about our PMET jobs), PSP (wrong facts about our Sovereign Fund), Online Citizen (accusation of corruption at the top echelon), Lim Tean (wrong facts about spending more on education fundings to foreigners than local students) --- are all wrong facts that are designed to make the Government look bad, so that Singaporean voters will be angry and not support the incumbent based on wrong facts.
(6) Such propagation of wrong facts are sinister not based on the opposition parties competency - but sinister covert and overt tactics to destabilise the Country to achieve their political goals.
(7) These political parties are unlike the once opposition party led by Mr LKY - who compete based on merits to win election.
(8) So I support POFMA to reveal these political parties - using untrue and fake news to achieve their political goals.
(9) Want to win - win beautifully with merit, competence and performance - not by LIES.
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) Fake news can spread like fire in social media --- eg. HK unrest is one good example - as million can take to the street within a very short time, and then violent unrest take place the next moment.
(2) Those who argue for Court to examine evidence and stop the fake news will be too late.
(3) Immediate stop must be administered to arrest the fake news in social media - that will spread like fire.
(4) POFMA seems to have this edge and look like the right tool.
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) Those with heart at the right place - will not fear POFMA - because they will check the facts with many sources before publishing anything and make objective statements based on facts.
(2) But those with sinister intent - will have alot to fear.
(3) So why fear POFMA when your heart is at the right place?
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) BTW, I am sure everyone in the forum should agree that the following facts brought up by the 4 political parties are wrong :-
SDP (wrong facts about our PMET jobs),
PSP (wrong facts about our Sovereign Fund),
Online Citizen (accusation of corruption at the top echelon),
Lim Tean (wrong facts about spending more on education fundings to foreigners than local students)
(2) If all agreed, then why these political parties did not check the facts before they make those false statements?
(3) What are their underlying objectives in making those statement?
(4) Are they trying to make the Government look bad so that they can score political points based on false facts - so that angry voters will vote for them instead of the Government?
(5) Then these political parties sinister intent - need to be exposed and voters can decide whether to trust these political parties who bent on benefit based on falsehood.
(6) Can Singaporeans trust such political parties who use falsehood to win election - to run Singapore?
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Others :-
pl be CLEAR, Brad Bowyer was POFMAed n NOT PSP. We hv to b clear abt this. Tks.
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Ricky Lim :-
Govt invokes POFMA Act for first time against post made by PSP’s Brad Bowyer
Bowyer had made a number of allegations about Temasek and GIC's investment decisions.
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Others :-
We all know their agenda.  But if there is a rebuttal first before POFMA is used, then SDP will only prove their stupidity.
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) POFMA require SDP to publish true facts beside its false facts.
(2) Rebuttal does not require SDP to do so - and anyone who read SDP fake news without the rebuttal will still be reading fake news.
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) When a member of a political party make political statement - unless he declare he make it in his personal capacity or the party distance themselves from him - then he is deem to represent his party.
(2) eg if a Minister or MP say some political statement - can he say it does not represent the psrty's views?
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Others :-
Surely not
Unless he first disclaims it
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) Else the party can abused free speech -  benefit party, they will claim party view.
(2) Get into trouble - say personal view nothing to do with PSP.
(3) Then all political parties start to abuse free speech.
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Others :-
I won't be surprised he made such remarks, Temasek has been in the news for many failed investments and all
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Ricky Lim :-
Temasek’s net portfolio value in the last financial year surged to an all-time high of S$308 billion.
This is an increase of S$33 billion from the previous financial year, which stood at S$275 billion, also a record at the time.
It also represents an approximate three-fold increase since the peak of the dotcom boom in 2000 (about S$100 billion).
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Others :-
Any investor will know that some investments will succeed and some will fail. Risks are inherent in investments. What is most impt is the overall outcome.
So by focusing on the failed investments is wrong
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Others:-
Yes of course
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Ricky Lim :-
An analogy simply put :-
(1) POFMA is a C-RAM (missile interceptor) - that intercept a nuclear missile before it hit the ground and nuke the target.
POFMA is about speed, and interception to prevent a wildfire or nuclear explosion from festering or happening.
(2) Courts or a Council of domain expert (to argue and waste time) - will be like an aftermath of nuke explosion - to examine evidence and find fault - but then the place is nuke already.
It will be too late - like HK unrest.
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Others :-
C-RAM eh why not Iron Dome
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Ricky Lim :-
we have spyder and aster.
iron drome is short range.
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Others :-
Ok don't act too smart about it
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Ricky Lim :-
what is wrong with some humor?
and what is wrong with an analogy?
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Others :-
Agree!
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Others :-
My observation is our government and leaders can be over confident in their ability to differentiate facts and falsehoods. I remember Mr K. Shanmugam once commented that they are guided by “domain experts”, that’s how they can tell what is truth and what is fake. My concern is they have a belief that these domain experts know everything within their domain. Firstly no one knows everything perfectly, even within their domain . Secondly these domain experts may have ulterior motives in steering our government towards certain directions. Case in point: medical cannabis. Why are we so slow in adopting it? Because our “local experts” have no intimate domain knowledge! First Mr. Shanmugam stated that there were no medical benefits. Then he stated that only synthetic drugs with cannabis may have medical benefits, and that raw cannabis has none, because it contains the psychoactive component THC and drug companies are trying to promote it to get us high. This is nonsense. Drug companies do not promote unpatented plants / supplements. They don’t make big $ from it. Also raw cannabis does not contain the psychoactive component called THC and it does not get us high. This is one example I do not trust our government’s ability to differentiate between truth and lies. The fake news law should be re looked into.
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) I am not sure why you bring up drugs such as cannabis under this POFMA topic.
(2) I am not an expert or a knowledgeable of drugs - but I felt that our Government position and war on drugs misused or coining abusive drugs as medical drugs - is the correct move for Singapore.
(3) Please refer to the various articles on how successful is Singapore in controlling abusive drugs as opposed to US and UK (who treat abusive drugs as medicinal drugs).

(a) Washington Post - Singapore is winning the war on drugs. Here’s how.
Regarding the March 2 news article “At opioids summit, Trump suggests executing dealers to help end crisis”:
Singapore is one of the few countries that have kept drug abuse under control. We take a clearheaded approach.

(b) Singapore's policy keeps drugs at bay
Michael Teo
Many criticise using the death penalty against those in the drug trade, but our strategy has saved thousands from addiction
Sat 5 Jun 2010 16.00 BST

(c) Majority of the young Singaporeans still support death penalty.

(d) As for years to come, death penalty for drug trafficking will stay.
(e) According to the World Drug Report by the United Nations office on drugs and crime 8.2% of the UK population are cannabis abusers; in Singapore it is 0.005%.
(f) For ecstasy, the figures are 1.8% for the UK and 0.003% for Singapore;
(g) and for opiates – such as heroin, opium and morphine – 0.9% for the UK and 0.005% for Singapore.

(h) When ten very different countries around the world have decriminalized drugs and found declines in usage, overdoses, and arrests, ------ but it has hide under the cover as public health issue rather than illegal drug abuse.

(i) Health Impact News
Legal Drug Addiction a far Greater Problem than Illegal Drug Addiction
By Dr. Mercola
In the UK, 1 million people are addicted to over-the-counter (OTC); that’s significantly more than the number addicted to illegal drugs.
US has lose its fight over drug addiction.

(j) Opioid Overdose Crisis
Revised January 2019
Every day, more than 130 people in the United States die after overdosing on opioids.1 The misuse of and addiction to opioids—including prescription pain relievers, heroin, and synthetic opioids such as fentanyl—is a serious national crisis that affects public health as well as social and economic welfare. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that the total "economic burden" of prescription opioid misuse alone in the United States is $78.5 billion a year, including the costs of healthcare, lost productivity, addiction treatment, and criminal justice involvement
(j) It is imperative madness -- for anyone to even suggest legalising drugs or go soft on drug traffickers.
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) But if you do a google search, vast majority of the articles sing praise on abusive drugs such as cannabis, majurina etc - like as though they are miracle drugs.
(2) I am glad that our Government take a "err at the side of caution".
(3) And i have the privilege to see in my eyes how drug inmates and their family members suffer under the drug abuse.
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Others :-
Humor is super important in a country like Singapore...  Humor breaks the ice... Humor cools me down..  Broke my train of thought and brings me to the correct train of thought..  The sense of humor brings joy and laughter... It is super important especially in a very stressful country like Singapore..  A little red dot 🎀
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Ricky Lim :-
(1) Well POFMA is a complex set of policies - that many layman have difficulty in understanding.
(2) The humor analogy of C-RAM - provide a pictorial representation of what POFMA is - that can be easilly understood by a layman, it have an immediate impact on understanding of the analogy, and it can be remember by people for a long time.
As "a picture speak more than a thousand words".
(3) C-RAM (missle interceptor) ---- represent interception, speed in intercepting (a disaster), precision and effectiveness in immediate stopping at the source (nip the source at the bud).
(4) This is what POFMA tool - aim to achieve and indeed all its characteristics - mirror that of the C-RAM.
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Others :-
Humor is super important in a country like Singapore...  Humor breaks the ice... Humor cools me down..  Broke my train of thought and brings me to the correct train of thought..  The sense of humor brings joy and laughter... It is super important especially in a very stressful country like Singapore..  A little red dot 🎀
An analogy is a wise way of showing wisdom... A comparison... But must be done with a pinch of salt... 🎄
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Ricky Lim :-
Well POFMA is a complex set of policies - that many layman have difficulty in understanding.
(2) The humor analogy of C-RAM - provide a pictorial representation of what POFMA is - that can be easilly understood by a layman, it have an immediate impact on understanding of the analogy, and it can be remember by people for a long time.
As "a picture speak more than a thousand words".
(3) C-RAM (missle interceptor) ---- represent interception, speed in intercepting (a disaster), precision and effectiveness in immediate stopping at the source (nip the source at the bud).
(4) This is what POFMA tool - aim to achieve and indeed all its characteristics - mirror that of the C-RAM.
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Others :-
Pardon me..  What is the "C" in your message ?
C-RAM.....  What is C-RAm...  Kindly elaborate
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Others :-
C-RAM is a missile interceptor as he mentioned, a warfare weapon.
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Ricky Lim :-
C-RAM is Counter (Rocket, Artillery and Missiles) - a sophisticated precise anti-air-to-air system.
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Others :-
Thanks very much
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Ricky Lim :-
oops should be C-RAM is Counter (Rocket, Artillery and Missiles) - a sophisticated precise anti-ground (or naval)-to-air system.
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Ricky Lim :-
Alamak - should be C-RAM is Counter (Rocket, Artillery and Mortar) - a sophisticated precise anti-ground (or naval)-to-air system.   ---- POFMA.
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Ricky Lim :-
Thinking aloud.
Social unrest is not uncommon - as it happen in many places around the World.

1. Chile unrest trigger by transport hike.

2. HK unrest trigger by political freedom, housing and jobs.

3. France yellow vest unrest trigger by pension reform and other price hike.

4. India unrest trigger by immigration law.

5. Indonesia unrest trigger by changes in law.

Peru, Algeria, Iraq, Thailand etc.

POFMA is thus an important safeguard to prevent unrest in Singapore that can be trigger by political parties fake news - such as exploiting sovereign funds, pmet jobs, education funding favoring foreigners, corruption of top echelon or for some to invite HK activists to give talk on how to conduct civil disobedience in Singapore.

The possibility of unrest in Singapore seems remote - but all it takes is for some political parties with sinister intent to fake some news - the right combination of some kerosene and a match stick to ignite one.

HK riot, people can run across to China fatherland or Macau for refuge.

If Singapore riot, our only refuge is to jump into the surrounding sea。This is the reason why we are extremely paranoid like formulating POFMA - as we don't have Fatherland and can afford to let riot go on for more than 6 months.

Hence i place my trust on the Government than the opposition parties who expound fake news to cause chaos and unrest.

I support POFMA than to "jump sea".
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Others :-
You have totally and completely missed my point. Our ministers position themselves as the authority on what is true, because they have domain experts to advise them. What I’m saying is that these domain advisers, either due to ignorance or with ulterior motive, can mislead our ministers by feeding them with falsehoods. Medical cannabis was brought up as an EXAMPLE, because Mr. Shanmugam, over a period of time, provided false scientific information about cannabis, which showed very clearly to me that he and other ministers have been fed with wrong information by their advisers. So, if our ministers can be misled by their advisers, how can they be the authority on what is true and tell us that our information is wrong and demand that we make corrections?
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Others :-
Does the POFMA Office make clear where their sources for correction are from? Otherwise, I think it's a necessity based on Anne's viewpoint.
Yes, it's a good point that the correction includes the source for the information.
With our current concerns, I believe by merely quoting ministry sources is hardly enough, especially if "domain experts/advisors" were indeed consulted.
 Agree
Anne, was it you who mentioned about how many people think scientists "eat grass"? I believe that's a great statement.
What we think as innocent can at times be people with ulterior motives and there is no proof to either prove or disprove anything.
After all, science is merely discovery. What comes after science is deeper research into that discovery.
Take the red pill and jump down the rabbit hole. Seriously. Do your friends lie to you? Maybe sometimes, maybe all the time. Maybe due to good intentions, maybe because they feel threatened, maybe they want to cheat you, whatever. We will very often come across false information. We cannot always differentiate what is true and what is not. Read widely. Listen to different viewpoints. Learn to use common sense reasoning. Don’t always assume our government and their experts are always right. Learn to question. For controversial subjects like medical cannabis, vaccines, climate change, etc, don’t just read the mainstream media’s version of these topics. Read the opposite view points as well. You will be surprised at what you learn from some of these “conspiracy…
My sentiment exactly
Splendid viewpoint!
I love to question everything, but it's not because I want to exploit loopholes, it's because I want to understand the reason behind everything that happens so I can determine for myself if that rule or that law makes sense.
It's always good to look at both sides of the picture! 😉
👍🏻
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Ricky Lim :-
Well i thought POFMA allow those who have been POFMA-ed to challenge it in the High Court?
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Others :-
Most of us don’t have the time and energy and $ to challenge all the way to High Court.
$ especially! Most of us here are commoners, where got money to fight gahmen? 😂
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Ricky Lim :-
Then what is your suggestion?
Also coming back to your citation of drug abuse and how Singapore control drug abuse versus US, UK and other Countries that discriminalise drugs that lead to opoid out of control.
Do you agree that Singapore did a good job in drug control?
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Ricky Lim :-
Thought opposition party can raise millions within a short time thru crowd sourcing if netizens buy your points and feel that one is unfairly dealt with?
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Others :-
But what if it isn't an opposition party that's involved? You know of individuals who "talk cock" and don't belong to any party or pledge support for any party.
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Ricky Lim :-
Thought one activist who don't belong to any party got donation from a VVIP brother to fight a case in Court.
but he lose the case - because he anyhow "talk".
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Others:-
Got a lot of "talk cock" people out there, think Roy Ngerng was one of them?
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Ricky Lim :-
POFMA is to prevent people from "anyhow talk" but to talk responsibly.
Free speech in democracy is a privilege and not an entitlement becos a wrong speech can trigger unrest.
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Others :-
"talk cock" but have lots of supporters that is really funny.
I know right HAHAHA
To me I just think people like Lim Tean are just here to create trouble, they don't really have the heart for SG
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Ricky Lim :-
Imagine if our Minister make a wrong decision about drug control and join US, UK and 10 other Countries that lead to opoid out of control in Singapore?
Many families will be destroyed and our Economy will suffer greatly.
I am not sure about the scientific wrong fact about drugs that our experts have make mistake.
But i am very sure that our Minister make the right decision about drug control that have safeguard the lives of all Singaporeans.
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Others :-
Keep drugs away from this country, look at how clean we are as compared to other countries!
But do try to understand Anne's viewpoint more, it's about clarifying "expert" opinions, not so much about whether drugs are good or bad.
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Ricky Lim :-
well POFMA has legal recourse thru High Court.
if the facts are wrong you can win the case.
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Others :-
But the money how ah if you don't get financial backing
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Ricky Lim :-
i mention crowd sourcing.
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Others :-
Yes you did but it's not guaranteed to give you enough to fight your case you see
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Ricky Lim :-
then talk responsibly and don't invite POFMA.
because no one buy your points to support your cause.
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Others :-
To wrap this up, I am very satisfied at how the POFMA office functions and all it usually demands it for a link to the Factually article to be put on the disproven content.