13 May 2020 (12pm - 8pm)
REACH
[1:03 pm, 13/05/2020] : 📢 Topic 📢
1. Do you agree with the Government's approach to test aggressively as a mean to contain the virus (even if it means high number of reported cases now)?
2. How can we encourage more of the community to adhere to safe distancing, checking in to TraceTogether and SafeEntry, in support of the Government’s calibrated approach in reopening the economy?
The Multi-Ministry Taskforce implemented various initiatives to reduce the number of COVID-19 infections in the community, and stabilise the infections at the foreign worker dormitories.
The Taskforce has also implemented plans to clear the migrant worker dormitories and ensure that migrant workers are well and safely go back to work when their sectors gradually re-open after the end of the circuit breaker period.
Our extensive testing regime and contact tracing capabilities have helped to detect these cases quickly. This early intervention has prevented large clusters from forming and most importantly helped reduce deaths.
Controlling the outbreak, preparing for the next phase
https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/controlling-the-outbreak-preparing-for-the-next-phase
Singapore eyes cautious easing of curbs if new cases stay low
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-eyes-cautious-easing-of-curbs-if-new-cases-stay-low
Reopening of the economy will be gradual and phased
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/reopening-of-the-economy-will-be-gradual-and-phased
Minister Lawrence Wong
https://www.facebook.com/LawrenceWongST/photos/a.597730213601659/3759957170712265/?type=3
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[2:27 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Do you agree to test aggressively even though high number is reported now?
(1) Answer is yes.
(2) We cannot fool ourselves by not testing and ensuring everyone is safe, happy that the number is low vis-a-vis other Countries - because the virus will do its jobs quietly to expose us and caught us flat-footed.
How to encourage people to adhere to safe-distancing, use SafeEntry and Tracetogether --- so that we can re-open the Economy in a calibrated approach?
(1) We need to ensure the working condition is safe as we open up our Economy in a calibrated approach.
(2) Because business is suffering and people are losing jobs and income - if we don't open up - but must do so in a calibrated approach to ensure that people are safe and yet able to keep the Economy, business and jobs going to bring in income.
(3) Maintaining safe distancing is a must - to ensure the infection won't flare up - as people are coming out into the Society - and human interaction will happen - that make virus infection a fertile ground.
What are the safe distancing measures to observe :-
a. Wear reusable mask at all times when step out of home, in work.
b. Maintain social distance of 1 meter apart between colleagues and customers and public.
c. Wash hands regularly with soap or sanitizer - and observe personal hygiene.
d. If feeling unwell, don't report to work and consult doctor immediately.
e. Only allow ta bao for breakfast, lunch, break, dinner. Ensure eating alone and not eat together with colleagues, friends or strangers and maintain at least 1 meter apart - because when eating or drinking, mask is off and saliva fly.
If people eat together, cross infection is highly likely to happen.
f. Avoid crowded places when going outside.
g. Avoid socializing, talks and keep meeting short - while maintaining a social distance of 1 meter with mask on.
h. Avoid shaking hands and physical contact.
i. Use SafeEntry by scanning QR code when enter into office, mall, or any establishment to check-in and when leaving the premises, to check-out.
- SafeEntry is a location based contact tracing and tracking mechanism - so that the time in and time out are recorded to facilitate contact tracing on all people in the premises at the same place, same time - in the event if contact tracing need to be conducted.
j. For those who are working and those opening up for, Tracetogether is a requirement as announce by the Government and workers will need to install the apps and activate the Bluetooth (as Government must have done a cost-benefit analysis assessing its benefits versus the risk - and decision is make to go ahead).
- Tracetogether is for the purpose of human-to-human contact tracing who come close to one another to facilitate contact tracing using Bluetooth.
- As individual (especially working people who uses their phone for business purpose or handling confidential transaction using your phone) - to protect your data, remember to activate the setting to save non-confidential data, contact list or other non-confidential apps to the Google Cloud (for Android users).
- For confidential data that should not be stored or save into the Google Cloud, backup your phone folder and data to your laptop harddisk and personal portable harddisk using versioning.
- Do Security virus scan to your phone and use security cleaner to clear your cache and memory at the end of the day - to ensure your phone is free from virus.
k. Will also like to hear about the roadmap of rolling out bluetooth dongle for those who like to adopt Bluetooth dongle as alternative to TraceTogether - which is also touted to do human-to-human contact tracing.
Candice Quek
[2:20 pm, 13/05/2020] : 1. Agree with the aggressive testing strategy. Would rather be seeing high numbers but at least we know the extent of the infection, rather than having low reported numbers just because we're not testing and we wouldn't know what we're dealing with. However, due consideration must be given to the fact that a negative test result is not a "free pass". The concern is whether the general population will form the mindset that "yay, I've tested negative. So I can go anywhere and do whatever I want because I'm certified 'clean'." This would be a dangerous mindset to have because for as long as you have just one person who has not yet been picked up, the rest of those who had previously tested negative is at risk of infection.
2. Think the main concern with TraceTogether (as an app) and SafeEntry (using QR codes) is the amount of personal data being collected, which is at risk if there should be a breach in data security. Especially when so much activity (online shopping, ebanking etc) is done on our phones, any breach would mean that there is a lot more information which is potentially at risk, and this in itself would make the more savvy individuals wary of the potential issues. Perhaps if dongles can be issued to everyone for the purposes of SafeEntry, it may serve to alleviate some of that concern, because even if that information is compromised, it would be limited solely to information in that dongle and not all other information which would be linked to our phones. You will also not have to depend on people to install the TraceTogether app, which is a voluntary action and honestly even if you manage to somehow coax, convince or coerce someone to install the all, they can easily uninstall it the second you turn your back. Standalone dongles would also solve the issue of people who do not use smartphones.
[2:57 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Joint Contribution with my close friend :-
(2) Some may argue that having a human-to-human contact tracer is good enough - why need a location base contact tracer?
(3) The reason being, human-to-human contact tracing is not good enough - even though all human contact with the infected person are identified and trace and quarantine.
(4) Why, because the infected person may be touching lift button, handrail, tables, chairs, unload the saliva and phelgm onto the water basin, toilet bowl, door handle and everywhere.
(5) If no location-tracking such as SafeEntry --- there is no way immediate lockdown on the premises can take place to disinfect the whole premises.
(6) As such infection source don't come from the infected person - but the contaminated premises in which unsuspecting persons can get infected - even though they don't come into contact with the infected person.
Rama
[3:00 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agree
--
[3:04 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Joint Contribution with my close friend :-
(2) What happen if the infected person take bus, take taxi, take MRT, walk around and cycle around - where he don't sign in into SafeEntry or even though he use Tracetogether (it can't identify the place he visit and the places he contaminated).
He will have touch the bus hanger, bus rail, bus seat, taxi door, taxi seat, mrt hangar, mrt seat with his contaminated hands.
(3) Then what will be the solution?
You need a GPS --- to track the route he take.
(4) But what happen, if he go underground where GPS cannot detect - as it is a satellite based system that need line-of-sight?
(5) Durn Durn Durn --- you will probably need the mobile data signal and GPS extender (that extend GPS signal out from underground to the above surface to receive satellite signal) to track him .......
Blue and White Flag Guy
[5:06 pm, 13/05/2020] : I'm sorry what? Bus Hanger? MRT Hangar?
[5:07 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahaha.
Handle.
Poor English.
----
[4:08 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend contribution:-
People can be creative.
Social distancing when travelling on trucks.
Suggest this to be implemented when our FW return to work after quarantine.
Rama
[4:09 pm, 13/05/2020] : Inhumane!
[4:11 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This idea come from the workers themselves who want to protect themselves from mutual infection.
Candice Quek
[4:13 pm, 13/05/2020] : The main issue is whether having those dividers would have an impact on the safety if eg sudden braking occurs. I'm not sure whether the physics of inertia would cause the boards to collapse and crush the ones sitting on the inside closest to the driver. Perhaps someone with a stronger physics grounding should weigh in!
[4:13 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Good suggestion.
Candice Quek
[4:14 pm, 13/05/2020] : if there's no safety concern, then i have to say that the MW(s) who came up with this idea are GENIUSES!
[4:15 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
But notice the partitions are locked down, only not sure if they can withstand the force of a sudden brake.
Rama
[4:21 pm, 13/05/2020] : Comments from LTA/TP/MOM!?
[4:22 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agree
Stanley
[4:24 pm, 13/05/2020] : Why so many theories
Safest is to charter buses
Like fetching factory workers
Cost more but safety first
Rama
[4:24 pm, 13/05/2020] : You have a point
Ben
[4:25 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agreed. Good first step in improving conditions and respect.
Rama
[4:25 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agree
Candice Quek
[4:25 pm, 13/05/2020] : indeed!
Ben
[4:27 pm, 13/05/2020] : Let's see Singapore come out of this tragedy a better place for all her people, including FWs
Rama
[4:31 pm, 13/05/2020] : Yes
Ben
[4:35 pm, 13/05/2020] : I always remember the phrase... "I may not be able to make the world better for everyone, but I can try to make it better for someone." As we start to think about Post Covid - maybe it's a good time to think about small changes we can each make to build a better Singapore for those who make it the country we love.
[4:37 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Some people may not like the idea.
The idea come from the workers themselves based on the video narrative.
REACH is for brainstorming.
Any ideas can be raised.
If people like the idea adopt, if not just put aside if not socially acceptable.
Rama
[4:37 pm, 13/05/2020] : Yes
Ben
[4:38 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agreed - all ideas are valid and worth exploring!
[4:39 pm, 13/05/2020] : Certainly this makes sense in the short-term and any changes take time to implement.
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[5:37 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Come to think of it:-
Actually hired air-con bus, virus will stay inside the bus and circulate. More FW will be infected.
But in this lorry that is open air, virus get blow away and dissipate. In fact, less chance of getting virus infections as the partitions serve as physical barrier to virus transmission.
Bus don't have partitions as physical barrier.
Rama
[5:42 pm, 13/05/2020] : True
[5:39 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
The only drawback:-
1. Whether is it socially acceptable.
2. Whether the partition will collapse under a hard brake.
But no hard push to adopt it if people cannot accept the idea.
Rama
[5:42 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agree
Ben
[5:39 pm, 13/05/2020] : Should Singaporeans also use these open air transportations with partitions then?
[5:40 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
No hard push to adopt the ideas....
Ben
[5:41 pm, 13/05/2020] : Can't imagine why.... 😉
[5:37 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Come to think of it:-
Actually hired air-con bus, virus will stay inside the bus and circulate. More FW will be infected.
But in this lorry that is open air, virus get blow away and dissipate. In fact, less chance of getting virus infections as the partitions serve as physical barrier to virus transmission.
Bus don't have partitions as physical barrier.
Rama
[5:42 pm, 13/05/2020] : True
[5:39 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
The only drawback:-
1. Whether is it socially acceptable.
2. Whether the partition will collapse under a hard brake.
But no hard push to adopt it if people cannot accept the idea.
Rama
[5:42 pm, 13/05/2020] : Agree
Ben
[5:39 pm, 13/05/2020] : Should Singaporeans also use these open air transportations with partitions then?
[5:40 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
No hard push to adopt the ideas....
Ben
[5:41 pm, 13/05/2020] : Can't imagine why.... 😉
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Candice Quek
[6:13 pm, 13/05/2020] : https://www.todayonline.com/world/personal-information-collected-fight-covid-19-being-spread-online-china
And this is what can happen if we're not careful with the data collected for contact tracing...
Rama
[6:15 pm, 13/05/2020] : Cyber security extremely critical!
Ben
[6:16 pm, 13/05/2020] : Yes which is why Trace Tracker keeps data on your phone rather than the cloud and doesn't store personal information.
Rama
[6:16 pm, 13/05/2020] : Good to know @
Candice Quek
[6:20 pm, 13/05/2020] : https://cna.asia/2Lq4ONe
Candice Quek
[6:21 pm, 13/05/2020] : Unfortunately if the app itself becomes compromised, all the data on your device becomes at risk. That's why people who are more sensitive towards issues of data privacy generally prefer to keep their devices/information separate. Thus the earlier suggestion that having a purpose-built dongle may be advantageous so that any information collected for the purpose of tracking is isolated from what we have on our personal devices.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:25 pm, 13/05/2020] : Oh my tian Zen Beng got partner now
Phyllis
[6:26 pm, 13/05/2020] : 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Rama
[6:27 pm, 13/05/2020] : Possibilities being considered, I believe
Ben
[6:28 pm, 13/05/2020] : Not disputing the dongle. Any app can be compromised. Best to avoid owning a smart phone if you are worried. I'm not getting into this any more. 😃
Candice Quek
[6:32 pm, 13/05/2020] : Yeah, no. Not pushing a point. Just sharing some concerns. Cheers
[6:39 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Ha hahaha.
Now I am giving Candice the honour to share your thoughts.
---
[7:35 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend contribution :-
1. Do you agree with the Government's approach to test aggressively as a mean to contain the virus (even if it means high number of reported cases now)?
Whether the numbers are high or low, don't we want know the truth? But we need to be clear when and why we conduct aggressive testing. Examples:
(1) SC/PR community. Cases are trending downwards and reach single-digit. There is no need to perform aggressive testings. Widening the test criteria to include people at risk is a better approach. As shared before, examples are people who face the general public at work and falling ill, people who are working in healthcare settings or face infected patients etc
(2) Migrant workers in dorms. The dorms have little room for social distancing, and if there is an outbreak, widespread is inevitable. Furthermore, in large projects, there are many sub contractors supplying migrant workers from various dorms which will fuel cross infections across different dorms. Our economy is reliant on all these migrant workers. Aggressive testing for dorm occupants will enable authorities to quickly isolate the infected workers, offer appropriate treatment and keep the not-yet-infected workers safe. When the economy is ready to reboot, can we operate with just generals and lieutenants and no soldiers? I was hoping that they all can be tested before CB ends, but at this moment only about 10% tested. There needs to be careful, selection who should be released into the work force.
(3) Nursing home staff/residents. Aggressive testing for nursing home staff/residents when the home in question is linked to an infection. This will ensure that they don't spread to the elderly who are vulnerable to falling severely ill and higher fatality. While SG total cases is high, our death rate is amongst the lowest. This vulnerable group can tilt the fatality scale.
(4) Prisons' inmates. Not sure how social distancing is being implemented. Might be good to test them before they are released.
(5) Schools have implemented measures quite early such as suspending inter-school activities and General assembly. Targeted Testing should be sufficient if outbreak is detected.
---
Candice Quek
[6:13 pm, 13/05/2020] : https://www.todayonline.com/world/personal-information-collected-fight-covid-19-being-spread-online-china
And this is what can happen if we're not careful with the data collected for contact tracing...
Rama
[6:15 pm, 13/05/2020] : Cyber security extremely critical!
Ben
[6:16 pm, 13/05/2020] : Yes which is why Trace Tracker keeps data on your phone rather than the cloud and doesn't store personal information.
Rama
[6:16 pm, 13/05/2020] : Good to know @
Candice Quek
[6:20 pm, 13/05/2020] : https://cna.asia/2Lq4ONe
Candice Quek
[6:21 pm, 13/05/2020] : Unfortunately if the app itself becomes compromised, all the data on your device becomes at risk. That's why people who are more sensitive towards issues of data privacy generally prefer to keep their devices/information separate. Thus the earlier suggestion that having a purpose-built dongle may be advantageous so that any information collected for the purpose of tracking is isolated from what we have on our personal devices.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:25 pm, 13/05/2020] : Oh my tian Zen Beng got partner now
Phyllis
[6:26 pm, 13/05/2020] : 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Rama
[6:27 pm, 13/05/2020] : Possibilities being considered, I believe
Ben
[6:28 pm, 13/05/2020] : Not disputing the dongle. Any app can be compromised. Best to avoid owning a smart phone if you are worried. I'm not getting into this any more. 😃
Candice Quek
[6:32 pm, 13/05/2020] : Yeah, no. Not pushing a point. Just sharing some concerns. Cheers
[6:39 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Ha hahaha.
Now I am giving Candice the honour to share your thoughts.
---
[7:35 pm, 13/05/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend contribution :-
1. Do you agree with the Government's approach to test aggressively as a mean to contain the virus (even if it means high number of reported cases now)?
Whether the numbers are high or low, don't we want know the truth? But we need to be clear when and why we conduct aggressive testing. Examples:
(1) SC/PR community. Cases are trending downwards and reach single-digit. There is no need to perform aggressive testings. Widening the test criteria to include people at risk is a better approach. As shared before, examples are people who face the general public at work and falling ill, people who are working in healthcare settings or face infected patients etc
(2) Migrant workers in dorms. The dorms have little room for social distancing, and if there is an outbreak, widespread is inevitable. Furthermore, in large projects, there are many sub contractors supplying migrant workers from various dorms which will fuel cross infections across different dorms. Our economy is reliant on all these migrant workers. Aggressive testing for dorm occupants will enable authorities to quickly isolate the infected workers, offer appropriate treatment and keep the not-yet-infected workers safe. When the economy is ready to reboot, can we operate with just generals and lieutenants and no soldiers? I was hoping that they all can be tested before CB ends, but at this moment only about 10% tested. There needs to be careful, selection who should be released into the work force.
(3) Nursing home staff/residents. Aggressive testing for nursing home staff/residents when the home in question is linked to an infection. This will ensure that they don't spread to the elderly who are vulnerable to falling severely ill and higher fatality. While SG total cases is high, our death rate is amongst the lowest. This vulnerable group can tilt the fatality scale.
(4) Prisons' inmates. Not sure how social distancing is being implemented. Might be good to test them before they are released.
(5) Schools have implemented measures quite early such as suspending inter-school activities and General assembly. Targeted Testing should be sufficient if outbreak is detected.
---
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