Saturday, May 9, 2020

REACH - 74. Test Elderly to stay safe (SK)
9 May 2020 (12pm - 8pm)

REACH
[12:08 pm, 09/05/2020] : Dear contributors, welcome back! The chat will be open till 8pm, please be reminded to adhere to our terms of use so as to have a conducive discussion😃
📢 Topic 📢
Seniors are at higher risk of developing serious health complications if infected with COVID-19. As such, the Multi-Ministry Taskforce has implemented measures to safeguard the health and well-being of our seniors. Efforts include active testing and safe management measures at senior residential care homes, as well as outreach to vulnerable seniors in the community.
What do you think of the measures taken to support our seniors as we continue the fight against COVID-19?
👉Support measures for seniors during COVID-19: https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/support-measures-for-seniors-during-covid-19
👉All staff, residents at homes for the elderly to be tested for Covid-19: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/all-staff-and-residents-at-nursing-homes-to-be-tested-for-covid-19-starting-with-those-who
👉Coronavirus: Vulnerable seniors being supported during circuit breaker: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/vulnerable-seniors-being-supported-during-circuit-breaker
+changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

[12:09 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://www.facebook.com/LawrenceWongST/posts/3745102008864448
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Straits Times
Life will not go back to normal after Covid-19 circuit breaker ends on June 1: Lawrence Wong
PUBLISHEDMAY 8, 2020, 6:50 PM SGT UPDATED MAY 8, 2020, 11:23 PM
National Development Minister Lawrence Wong during a virtual press conference on Friday (May 8).
He said more precautions will have to be taken, including measures which make use of technology - such as the digital check-in system SafeEntry in workplaces, an enhanced TraceTogether contact-tracing app, and possibly dongles which people can carry around to help with contact tracing.
The solution will be announced when ready, and everyone will be expected to have it in place, Mr Wong added. He said they are also exploring other ways of enhancing contact tracing which do not require the use of a smartphone.
“We are also looking at possibilities, like a wearable, a dongle that people can carry with them when they go out. So for those without smartphones the possibility of being able to track them remains, for contact tracing purposes.”
---

Superhero
[12:37 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/who-readies-coronavirus-app-for-checking-symptoms-possibly-contact-tracing?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=STFB&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1nQBAP6jL9H6GQf6Ub3KQitHDsCbLGNnivm5KNo-5e-FtKLTLlP5tLNbI#Echobox=1588984840

Rama
[12:38 pm, 09/05/2020] : I will stick to trace together

Superhero
[12:39 pm, 09/05/2020] : Am glad that the SG govt said in the press conference last night that they are looking at ways to help improve the trace together app in Singapore and exploring ways for those without mobile devices

Jonathan Lam
[12:42 pm, 09/05/2020] : But having said that they should improve on the security aspect of the app

Superhero
[12:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : Agree hopefully they will take that in consideration too

[12:49 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Government proposing a dongle to speed up contact tracing for those who does not have smartphone.
Wonder can people choose to use dongle even though they have smartphone?

[12:54 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
No liability to government as they do not have to ensure Bluetooth security in smartphone.
Dongle with Bluetooth (I presume) don't offer incentive for hackers to hack dongle.

XaniceAfcai
[1:08 pm, 09/05/2020] :
Dongle.. Hmm..
Maybe can merge with hpb tracker since most of them even elderly also have tracker.

Desmond Koh
[1:39 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://estimote.com

[3:24 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Just wonder how much it cost for one contact tracer  Bluetooth dongle?

Desmond Koh
[3:26 pm, 09/05/2020] : Erm not this brand la, just saying there’s available technology...
It was 95USD for 3 when I used them for development

Blue and White Flag Guy
[3:26 pm, 09/05/2020] : Hahaha Desmond reveal surname ah because too many Desmonds in GovTech? 😆

[3:27 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Huh about USD 30 for one - quite expensive.

[3:29 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
If got cheaper one pse let us know.
Better to get for the whole family then risking handphone hack.

Desmond Koh
[3:38 pm, 09/05/2020] : As I said, is for POC, not for production usage
https://estimote.com/products/

[3:39 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Then let us wait for government to announce when ready.

[3:47 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/covid-19-at-home-saliva-test/index.html



[4:22 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
See I use Google satellite map to do location tracking - 22 places I last visited.
Can even zoom in to actual location.



[4:22 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Got even date and time.


[4:22 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
All these will greatly speed up contact tracing.

Desmond Koh
[4:26 pm, 09/05/2020] : Talk to him haha
https://blog.gds-gov.tech/@jasonbaysg

[4:31 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
I only suggest various approaches. This is what REACH feedback forum is for.
Ultimately it is up to the government to propose what is best for the people.
If government finally decide to use Bluetooth, I will like to opt for a Bluetooth dongle for my family instead of using our smartphone.
Most people I talk to with IT background are not comfortable to turn on their smartphones Bluetooth in public for the obvious reasons.
Some work in high security organisation.

Desomnd Koh
[4:32 pm, 09/05/2020] : Orh

Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:34 pm, 09/05/2020] : So can close your case?

Leonard Lau
[4:34 pm, 09/05/2020] : Is  Jason the leader of the Govtech team that put up Blue Trace white paper ?

Desmond Koh
[4:36 pm, 09/05/2020] : He is SD GDS/GovTech
He lead the COVID-19 support projects
[4:36 pm, 09/05/2020] : All the HIVE people haha

Desmond Koh
[4:36 pm, 09/05/2020] : There no case lei, just comfortable or not comfortable with Bluetooth only...

Leonard Lau
[4:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : “Finally, the experience of Singapore’s contact tracers suggest that contact tracing should remain a human-fronted process. Contact tracing involves an intensive sequence of difficult and anxiety-laden conversations, and it is the role of a contact tracer to explain how a close contact might have been exposed — while respecting patient privacy — and provide assurance and guidance on next steps.” - Jason Bay .

The trace together and the safe together apps can be complimentary to the manual contract tracing process ..
So we still have to observe safe distancing and wear masks moving forward .

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[6:36 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
---
Straits Times
PUBLISHED MAY 8, 2020, 10:00 PM SGT
Coronavirus: 40,000 daily tests have to be done in *strategic*, coordinated way, says Lawrence Wong
"The *tests have to be allocated to areas of priority*," he said, adding that the 40,000 daily tests "is probably ranked as one of the highest rates of testing in the world".
Among the top priorities he cited are *nursing homes*, *front-line medical workers in hospitals* and *migrant workers*, whom, he said, should be tested on a regular basis partly because they work in large groups.
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[6:30 pm, 25/04/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
My close friend comments :-
(1) UK targets to do 100000 tests per day.
(2) What it means is that the longer we delay aggressive testing the more we have to do to catch up because the silent spread is exponential on a daily basis.
(3) In mar south Korea started aggressive testing on a scale of 10000 per day. Our DMS on the contrary said yield little result.
(4) But every asymptomatic case that slip by can turn into a thousand cases in 10days. When it quietly spread until beyond control, we are finished.
(5) Really hope sg is doing aggressive testing.

My comments :-
(1) Yes. *Your suggestion of aggressive testing is the right strategy* to weed out the unlink cases in Singapore - which remain a stealth reservoir in the Community that are stealthly and silently infecting unsuspecting people in the Community.

My close friend response :-
(1) It's about maximising outcomes, minimising disasters. unless we are poor and cannot afford it. Economic shut costs much much more.

My comments :-
(1) Aggressive testings is the right approach, but to test all 5.6 million residents in Singapore at one go - is a very challenging and daunting tasks.

(2) Thus we need to priorities our testing, I suggest that :-
a. Batch 1 - *Dorms for foreign workers* are now undergoing aggressive testing. Majority of the infected people have been identified.

b. Batch 2 - *Foreign workers outside the dorms* are undergoing tests now concurrently - and this form the 2nd largest group after the dorms reported every day.

c. Batch 3 --- Note :- the community local transmission and the unlink cases that are reported everyday --- are coming from this group.
But this group are all the residents in Singapore - citizens, PRs, Long Term Pass Holders. --- which form about 3 to 4 million people.
To conduct aggressive testings to this large pool of people to weed out the 30 to 20 over cases --- will be a challenge.
So I suggest we do the following :-

(i) Batch 3a - Test all essential workers that are working now - as some unlink cases come from this batch - about 300,000 workers.

Batch 3b - *Test all nursing homes* - where some unlink cases - have been uncovered through this batch - number unknown - but not a big number, I guess.

Batch 3c - Test all pre-school students and staff who will be attending pre-school once circuit breaker ends - as some cases also come from this batch - number unknown --- but i guess quite a big number.

Batch 3d - Test all workers that will be going to work for non-essential services when circuit breakers end - as few cases are reported from this group - a big number - potentially about 1 to 2 million workers?

Batch 3e - Test all school going children eg. primary, secondary, JCs, IHLs - that need to go to schools and pose a risk of cross infection - before circuit breaker ends - potentially about 1 to 2 million students?

(ii) Note :- by testing all the Batch 3a to 3e ---- if there is any discovered cases --- their family members or those living with them or come into with them will be tested --- and these will have weed out the unlink cases.

(iii) Can we take the risk of not testing all those staying at home --- yes i think we can --- because if the above batches are tested - with no infection - very likely that those stay at home are not infected.

(iv) If anyone of the tested batchs have people infected, then likely that those stay with them will be infected - and this stay at home can be tested.

(v) Believe in this way --- we have a systematic aggressive way of testings to weed out all the unlink cases in the Community.

My close friend contribution :-

Pleased to see that community cases are dropping. The next step is enlarged the test criteria for the community to institute testing for
(1) those under quarantined/SHN before lifting their movement restrictions. When the community cases start to clear up, there is no reason to release those close contacts without testing them.
(2) occupationally higher-risk groups should be tested once they showed symptoms e.g. *Public facing personnel*, *healthcare support workers* etc.

Rama
[6:46 pm, 09/05/2020] : Needs to be done!

REACH
[6:48 pm, 09/05/2020] : Ministry of Manpower: Requirements for Safe Management Measures at the workplace after Circuit Breaker period
As announced by the Ministry of Health (MOH) on 2 May 2020, as local transmission numbers come down, we can gradually relax our restrictions and selectively resume economic activities. This will help support our businesses and protect livelihoods. To prevent the re-emergence of community cases, our workplaces should begin to put in place safe management measures ahead of time.
More: https://www.mom.gov.sg/covid-19/requirements-for-safe-management-measures

[6:48 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
SKorea with 0 case for a few days open up and contracted a new cluster in a nightclub with 18 cases.
Today CNA, announce it has grown into 40 cases today.

Rama
[6:50 pm, 09/05/2020] : All because one inconsiderate guy decides to bar hop!

[6:51 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
We need to maintain vigilant when we open up.
SKorea flare up is a lesson we must learn from.

[6:51 pm, 09/05/2020] : Sad to say, we have to tell on our fellow citizens to keep the populace safe!
[6:52 pm, 09/05/2020] : Why can't we be like Sweden!?

Elena Woo
[6:53 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/trump-says-us-must-reopen-even-if-more-americans-get-sick-die-from-covid-19?utm_medium=Social

Rama
[6:53 pm, 09/05/2020] : Blady raving lunatic!

Elena Woo
[6:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : Suggest inbound and outbound travel restrictions to stay.
[6:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : Esp to and from US

[6:54 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
What can we learn from Sweden?

Rama
[6:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : No need for cb as all cooperate and do self  social distancing,  wearing mask with no issues whatsoever!

[6:55 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Singapore should do likewise.

Rama
[6:55 pm, 09/05/2020] : Yes

Elena Woo
[6:55 pm, 09/05/2020] : I think bluetooth dongle will be better for everyone.

[6:57 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Most people I talk to support dongle.
They very uncomfortable with using their handphone to install Bluetooth apps.
SafeEntry many are ok and are using it now.



Caleb
[7:08 pm, 09/05/2020] : 👍

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Rama
[7:23 pm, 09/05/2020] : It goes with safe exit
[7:32 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.sg/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-chief-says-high-death-toll-was-surprise-2020-5/amp

[7:34 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Surprise things is when you ask the ambassador where is the QR code to check out.
They say no need.
Check in can already, no need to check out.
Everywhere I go they say the same thing.
Not in synch with news report.

[7:34 pm, 09/05/2020] : Allow smaller shops selling everyday items to resume business https://www.todayonline.com/voices/allow-smaller-shops-selling-everyday-items-resume-business#.XraVTIQbgMI.whatsapp
[7:35 pm, 09/05/2020] : I have to do both at my work place since it is a government building

[7:37 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
You are right - should do check in and check out.
But many supermarkets, malls, banks only practice check in but not check out.
All exit has no QR code to check out.
I find it very strange.

[7:42 pm, 09/05/2020] : Is that an app to download or scan to go?
[7:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : yes
[7:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : download safentry qr scanner
[7:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : Playstore?
[7:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : it will linked to singpass and no need to key in anything just press ok ok on phone will do
[7:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : yes
[7:44 pm, 09/05/2020] : remember look for safentry qr scanner
[7:45 pm, 09/05/2020] : 👍 thanks.
[7:46 pm, 09/05/2020] : Dun need to scan for check out. As long as u check in, leave the page open. When one exits, the same page will display the check out page.

I went to the mall... This mall ppls is very on.. Chase ppls for check out... Must show her.

[7:48 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Oh is it.
Did not notice the check out page.

Next time must look properly.
[7:48 pm, 09/05/2020] : I use barcode scanner to scan. Dun even need to key in the details if u are sec time gg in... Just click check in will do.

Most ppls dun scan, use ic to scan..
[7:48 pm, 09/05/2020] : That means auto checkout once we leave the premises.
[7:49 pm, 09/05/2020] : My hub closes the page the first time so did not realise that the same page will auto change..

Check in is green color. Once one checks out, it will turn blue.

[7:49 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:
Oh I see
Good to know.

[7:49 pm, 09/05/2020] : No. It will auto display the page provided one dun close the check in page.. Then using the same page, click the check out
[7:50 pm, 09/05/2020] : Oh ok, now I know it.
[7:50 pm, 09/05/2020] : But ppls scan ic to mall n ntuc. The mall ppls even stop those who exit to scan their ic again. Hmm...
[7:51 pm, 09/05/2020] : Hello REACH Contributors!

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 10 minutes ⏰

As always, thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight! 😴

- Megan
[7:51 pm, 09/05/2020] : But the other mall I went dun bother to check out.. Say dun need. But I did check out to close the loop.
[7:52 pm, 09/05/2020] : No link to singpass one leh..
[7:52 pm, 09/05/2020] : Will authorities query why check in but no check out!?
[7:52 pm, 09/05/2020] : hmm i do not know now i did find it ... but now is not possible to find it
[7:52 pm, 09/05/2020] : the gantry people will ask you if you did check out
[7:53 pm, 09/05/2020] : Any penalty!?
[7:53 pm, 09/05/2020] : Cant find safe entry app on play store leh
[7:53 pm, 09/05/2020] : Where to retrieve the places that we go to? Which history?
[7:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : Depend on the mall.
Today, the mall I went.. Chase ppls for check out. I was carrying food.. But bo bian.. I clicked n show the mall ppls cos she was raising voice.. Pls check out..
[7:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : Got history huh? How to look?
[7:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : Your singpass app on your phone has a drop down box that shows records
[7:54 pm, 09/05/2020] : If u dun save then I dun think can see. Last wk I save.. But not this wk..
[7:55 pm, 09/05/2020] : My Singpass show 0 tho I got scan many many in last few days.
[7:55 pm, 09/05/2020] : I save but still show 0.
[7:55 pm, 09/05/2020] : Likewise
[7:56 pm, 09/05/2020] : I dun have singpass app install. I use barcode scanner to scan.. Return a SafeEntry  Web browser... Alr auto fill in details..as I saved it. Cos this is not the first time I fill up detail.


[7:57 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: Now then I check out.
Ha ha ha

[7:57 pm, 09/05/2020] : I save but never show any. Ask me fill in everytime.
[7:57 pm, 09/05/2020] : Yes. This is the check out page.. Check in is green one
[7:57 pm, 09/05/2020] : I dun need leh..
[7:57 pm, 09/05/2020] : 👍
[7:58 pm, 09/05/2020] : I only use check in n out when enter mall.i use ic for Ntuc
[7:58 pm, 09/05/2020] : There is a transaction history in singpass app
[7:58 pm, 09/05/2020] : Aiyoh so confusing, it there any easier than this one?
[7:58 pm, 09/05/2020] : Question: SafeEntry must now be used at all businesses right?
[7:58 pm, 09/05/2020] : If u save this page, it will SA e in yr download folder.
[7:59 pm, 09/05/2020] : Including barber and TCM etc when they reopen?
[7:59 pm, 09/05/2020] : Even long John silver n fast food have their own safe entry code. But no one scan
[7:59 pm, 09/05/2020] : not sure if this is legit app but it just disappear from playstore
[7:59 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://labapps.tech/safeentryqr/
[7:59 pm, 09/05/2020] : it does link to singpass though

[8:00 pm, 09/05/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: Oh I see.

[8:00 pm, 09/05/2020] : My scanner dun link
[8:00 pm, 09/05/2020] : https://www.safeentry.gov.sg/deployment

Places where safeentry is required
[8:00 pm, 09/05/2020] : I dun even login singpass
[8:00 pm, 09/05/2020] : different scanner have different functions
[8:01 pm, 09/05/2020] : this one is label SG so i think certain way this guy is authorized since the app can go to Sing pass, i also noted he have another app for only health sector staff only
[8:01 pm, 09/05/2020] : Hi REACH Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight,
Megan ☺
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