14 Apr 2020 (12 pm - 10pm)
REACH
[11:49 am, 14/04/2020] : [Sent by Gov.sg – 14 Apr]
COVID-19: Circuit breaker measures
All, esp elderly, should stay home; go out only for essentials
- Wear a mask when out
- Observe safe distancing measures: at least 1m away from others
π ♂ Penalties for breaching measures
First-time offenders: $300 fine
Repeat offenders: Higher fines or prosecution
π· Personnel at food establishments must wear masks/face shields
- Non-compliance: Up to $5,000 fine, or suspension/cancellation of licenses, or both
π 24 work pass holders found breaching circuit breaker measures
π« Their work passes will be revoked. All 24 workers will be permanently barred from working in SG.
Go.gov.sg/MOM-13apr
[12:00 pm, 14/04/2020] : Dear contributors,
Welcome back! ☺
⏰ Our chat will be open till 10pm today.
REACH is constantly taking note of all the feedback and suggestions shared on our WhatsApp chats, and will send them to relevant authorities for consideration.
π’Topicπ’
Yesterday, Minister Shanmugam announced that the Government will check for fraudulent temporary relief claims if any. The scheme is meant to help those who need quick and immediate help during this crisis period.
How can we as individuals help one another during this tough period?
π https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-fake-temporary-relief-fund-claim-police-msf-jail-12636796
REACH WhatsApp Terms of Use:
- https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms
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[6:30 pm, 14/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://youtu.be/-rEoEZNI9-4
Few key points raised by PM Lee in ASEAN virtual conference on the impact of covid-19 on ASEAN :-
1. pandemic cause trade fracture
2. should build trade and economic resiliency in future shock
3. there should be cooperation in keeping trade open despite the pandemic
4. no country will be spared even when 1 country is still infected
5. strategic assets like food, medical eqipment need to be self sufficient
6. ASEAN still should aim to sign RCEP end this year and ensure economy rebound when pandemic is over
Rama
[6:31 pm, 14/04/2020] : Agree on all points
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:31 pm, 14/04/2020] : Hi Zen beng good evening
[6:32 pm, 14/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Huh?
Long time never heard of this name.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:33 pm, 14/04/2020] :
Trust me, we mention you in G2ers all the time!
At least you're much more sane than some people here π€
Rama
[6:33 pm, 14/04/2020] : Yes
Adam
[6:33 pm, 14/04/2020] : Lol
Rama
[6:33 pm, 14/04/2020] : π€£π ππ
[6:34 pm, 14/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Remember what I say, address the issue - don't do personal attack.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:34 pm, 14/04/2020] :
Not me lor, you see the rest here for yourself
But ok lah peacekeeping task here has been quite doable π️
[6:36 pm, 14/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
We are here to contribute ideas to solve national problem.
If we spend time attacking one another, we deviate from our purposes what we have set out to do.
Our time and effort will be wasted.
Rama
[6:36 pm, 14/04/2020] : Agree
Adam
[6:37 pm, 14/04/2020] : Agree
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:38 pm, 14/04/2020] : Hanor hanor! I say before to everyone liao, fight here fight there got what use nia, we here to feedback and to give ideas
We should not completely assert that we are right and listen to what others have to say - that's what discussion is about!
But of course I would still appreciate it if we all respect all the SMEs if you know who they are and what they specialize in
You've been here for a long time just as I have, you know how it is :)
[6:40 pm, 14/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
(1) The Temporary Relief Fund is to help those people's jobs and business as well as Solidarity Fund to help individual to tie over that are affected by the circuit breaker - to as to ensure the infection curve will be flatten after the measure.
(2) The brewing local transmission - specifically growing unlink cases, new clusters and dorm infection reported everyday demonstrate the needs for everyone to observe and take the circuit breaker seriously - but not to abuse it by flouting the measures --- and lead to failure in the measures --- that need to extend the partial lockdown - that will not only hurt business, individuals as well as jobs --- who are making sacrifices to ensure the measures work.
(3) And the amount of money spend by the Government - the custodian of the taxpayer money - will be wasted --- if the small minorties blatantly flout the circuit measures, and abuse the money given out by cheating.
(4) In this trying time, we should encourage people to stay home - if we see people straying and flouting the circuit measures --- eg. we still can see some elderly sitting in the void deck without a mask on (even though the deck is taped out) or see elderly loitering and wandering around aimlessly instead of staying at home.
(5) It is a consolation that a vast majority of the people are wearing a mask in the street except a few ---- but hopefully peer pressure as well as rule to refuse entry for people going into supermarkets, markets, public transport, banks --- will ensure more and more people wear masks --- that will help to curb and reduce the local transmission that are growing every day.
(6) Hopefully, the local transmission will go down by the next 2 weeks and see the infection curve flatten --- before we can breathe a sigh of relief.
Rama
[6:41 pm, 14/04/2020] : Yes
Kelvin Law
[6:55 pm, 14/04/2020] : No u have crossed the line. I wanted to disregard what u said, but what I stated was my opinion on the matter, nothing against PT. If based on the same yardstick (or line) u have drawn, then many of the participants would have offended you in your eyes since many of us are not the so-called expert as you claimed.
You have crossed the line. Peacemaker my foot. What you said runs counter to what you claimed.
Go back and read the terms or you will be referred to the moderator.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:56 pm, 14/04/2020] : Refer me to the moderator then. Unless you have better ideas on how PT can be run, I suggest you read what I have typed and not disregard it like as if it's not even there.
I gave you your space as SME for Education yet you couldn't for me as SME for PT, shame on you.
Kelvin Law
[7:41 pm, 14/04/2020] : This is my last statement on this matter: That was a load of fantastic excretion. You responded in a very imbalanced manner to my simple response to that article on reducing public transport frequency. Lambasting me on claiming to be SME? Pls......that is your pattern. Anyway u are going to get what u wanted all the while. I'm getting out of this group. The environment is definitely more toxic when I first joined. You are welcome here as long as you,for some odd reason, stepped on the great almighty Nat.
Megan, I came here to contribute my opinion and yet was unfairly attacked. I wonder if you have lost the plot when it comes to administering this feedback group. U can check with me direct for any clarification on my statement.
For the rest of you, I don't know you that well and I have nothing against you all. So forgive my diatribe. You don't deserve this.
With my departure, you will not see anymore of such unhealthy and unhappy exchanges. Can't promise there aren't any more down the road.
See the person for who he is, not for who he claimed.
Stay safe people, unless the Great Nat finds this farewell offensive as well since I'm not a SME.
Kelvin Law left
Dongliang
[7:44 pm, 14/04/2020] : Well, both of you are impressive. I just wish kelvin could have stayed to contribute more.
Blue and White Flag guy
[7:44 pm, 14/04/2020] : Kelvin Law has become too toxic
[7:45 pm, 14/04/2020] : Noticed his sudden change in tone?
Perhaps you haven't but many of us in G2ers have and it's both disappointing and disgusting
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[6:46 pm, 13/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Joint Contribution with my close friend :-
(1) The rise in unlinked cases (167 on 12 apr) and large number of cases (in the hundreds) is alarming as this suggests community spread is (i) becoming pervasive (ii) likelihood that asymptomatic persons are contributing to the rapid spread and (iii) current method of contact tracing is unable to cope.
(2) we hope that the relevant authorities widen the test criteria for covid19 e.g. It was reported that a confirmed case was having fever and cough but was not tested and after the symptoms persisted for several days and was finally tested and confirmed. During the period where the symptoms appear to confirmed it might have spread to several others and chain of transmission proliferates exponentially. When community spread has become pervasive, can the authorities consider widening the test criteria e.g. Persons who showed symptoms and worked in public facing environment should be tested.
(3) In the case of diamond princess cruise ship, asymptomatic cases constitute 18%. In south Korea case, 20% out of 9000 studied. This is a very worrying statistic. In the case of outbreaks at foreign workers dorms, our foreign workers are like the passengers on board of diamond princess cruise who are isolated within their cruise ship cabins. The covid19 virus thrives in the environment and invisibly being carried around. Can we plead with the authorities to rapidly test and isolate and treat those workers who already have been infected and not wait for symptoms to appear please. From the humanity standpoint, we are responsible for their well being. From the pandemic standpoint, we cannot afford to let the cases explode.
(4) With the large daily number of cases and if these were a result of community asymptomatic spread, contact tracing based on closed contact will need to be enhanced. Can the authorities look into contact tracing using mobile signals. The privacy issue related to such tracing should be allowed during such special situation. Once a person is confirmed, can the authorities retrieve from Telcos the mobile signal logs related to the person in question and trace his/her movement over the past 14 days. And all the related mobile signals that were in close vicinity. We can them identify all the persons who have come close the the confirmed case and perform tests in them on them. If positive, isolate and treat quickly without waiting for symptoms to appear and isolate those who are tested negative.
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Shirley
[7:30 pm, 14/04/2020] :
covid-19 - Compulsory to wear mask when leave home
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid19-wearing-masks-compulsory-lawrence-wong-12640828?cid=FBcna
[7:46 pm, 14/04/2020] : REACH: Finally, they found the courage and bit the bullet. Should have done this 4 weeks ago. Very disappointing.
Fulgrim
[8:13 pm, 14/04/2020] : They mention no mask is allowed for strenuous activity like jogging but have to put back after ? Means bring mask and wear till jogging site, take off and jog and after finish, wear back mask?
Ron Ho
[8:22 pm, 14/04/2020] : There is no magic bullet in any of the defences against C19. Just because Govt says 'social distancing' to be observed and yet allow people crammed next to each other, without masks, in the trains 4 weeks ago is quite a farce. I have said it before, and will say it again. When you allow residents and citizens to be dependent on govt for supply of masks, you make them feeble, not robust. Hence, supply of masks is not an issue. People should be motivated to get masks, make masks, etc. That was what happened in HK. People became creative, not lame. I have been pitching NO Mask NO Entry for public transport for weeks on this REACH Forum but no action from Govt till just these few days ago. Why? My feedback is always to Reach to get the C19 Task Force to get tougher and quicker. I should be happy now that all my objectives have now been met. But I am disappointed the delay have caused the local community to increase to over 120 per day and this will go to 300 per day within 10 days. And CB will surely be extended to May end. Business is suffering now. Anyway, I have said what I want to say to Reach and I will shut up now. Will feedback through REACH Online portal.
The mask-wearing requirement takes effect immediately, said Mr Wong who was speaking at a press conference by the multi-ministry task force tackling COVID-19.
Individuals who are caught refusing to wear a mask will be fined S$300 on their first offence, while those who flout the rule a second time will be fined S$1,000. Egregious cases will be prosecuted in court, he added.
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[7:53 pm, 14/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ: --
Straits Times :-
About 5,000 foreign workers to be tested for Covid-19 in next few days, even those who are well but are contacts of confirmed cases
14 Apr 2020 7:30pm
"So if we have any concerns, particularly in any of the dormitories where there is, in fact, an infected foreign worker, then we want to know where they are and we will make plans to test as many of them as is possible."
Work is ongoing to test asymptomatic workers or those with minimal symptoms, Prof Mak said.
"In some dormitories, we have started work to screen close contacts of confirmed cases. For example, they may be fellow workers who share the same room and, because of their proximity of contact in their living arrangements, are deemed therefore as at higher risk.
--
[8:33 pm, 13/04/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
DRAFT :-
Key points are :-
(1) Ring fencing a bigger target.
(2) Then widen criteria to test.
(3) Lesson learned from SKorea.
Joint Contribution with my close friend :-
Part ! - 2 Things that we felt have loopholes - that can be done better (at the backdrop of more and more local transmission)
(1) We are getting increasingly more and more concern as local transmission - is now the predominant infection source. Imported infection is very low and in 13 Apr 2020 is zero.
(2) What is worst, now the main transmission sources come from unlink cases :-
13 Apr 2020 - 167 cases (where 141 are foreign workers working in dorm) and the rest are residents.
12 Apr 2020 - 119 unlink cases
10 Apr 2020 - 71 unlink cases
(3) We felt that mild asymptomatic cases could be the major infection sources in our local transmission.
(4) If this is the case, 2 things we do currently may not go right and may have flaws :-
a. Contact tracing and Testing
b. Quarantine in dorm and Testing
a. Contact tracing and Testing
- by identifying the infected person - and trace those people he/she contacted with - may have misssed important infection sources :-
- eg. the toilet he/she visit (as he/she may discharged droplets and virus in wash basin and toilet bowls.
- eg. infected person use his contaminated fingers to press the lift buttons, hold the handrail in MRT or bus or sneeze or cough in the lift.
- eg. infected person eat in food court and contaminate the chairs, tables, utensils etc
- although other people did not come into contact with this infected person --- they may still get infected - that result in the many unlink cases.
- Tracetogether mobile apps - will not be able to detect such unlink cases.
- So even if the contact tracing is 100% successful and all those who come into contact with the infected person are trace through the Tracetogether apps (assume all people installed) or detective means, tested and quarantine or Stay at Home ----- the above infection sources can still infect healthy people that come into contact with contaminated areas --- as tracetogether won't tell where the infected person has leave his/her trace of contamination.
Even through personal interview, he/she may not remember all the places he/she goes.
b. Quarantine in dorm and Testing
- Currently, we are using gold standard test ktis - a very accurate lab test - that take about 1 day to know the result.
- And in total, can only conduct about 2,900 to 3,000 test a day.
- In a dorm that are currently quarantine, there are 24,000 foreign workers - and it will need 8 to 9 days to complete.
- While waiting for the tests, there could be more infection even though social distancing may be implemented as mild asymptomatic cases may sneeze or cough and infect the doors, chairs, water basin, toilets, food, utensils, TV, gadgets - and anyone touch if may get infected - if the tests are not done fast enough.
- This could have explained why we have 141 dorm workers are infected as unlink cases in 12 Apr 2020.
Part 2 - Proposed 2 Alternative approaches to plug the loopholes
aka datang .............
==============
Joint Contribution with my close friend :-
Part 2 - Proposed 2 Alternative approaches to plug the loopholes
(1) And we will like to propose an alternate perspective and approach (that deviate from how the above 3 things are done) - as the number of local transmission cases and unlink cases are on the rise every day.
a. Contact tracing and testing
- Based on the scenario described in Part 1, where vicintiy and surface areas can be contaminated by infected persons ---- Cannot be based on close contact anymore.
- Adjusting Contact tracing approach become important.
- "Like I heard in HK", one person infected , entire block qurantined, everyone in the block need to be tested and the whole block need to be disinfected.
- By using this approach - we can catch and weed out those mild and asymptomatic cases where they don't come into contact with the infected person - but got infected by contaminated surfaces, aerosol left in the air.
- Thus we felt that using Tracetogether mobile apps and even detective legworks - will not fully cover all the contaminated areas as well as those people who don't come into contact with the infected person - but got infected by touching contaminated areas (as tracetogether don't identify areas that the infected person visit and people may tend to forget certain place they visit when interview by detective).
- A more effective method is to use location-based tracking - such as mobile signal data, GPS location tracking that we can collect from the respective Telcos - that provide all contact data for contact tracers to scientifically traced all people in the vicinity that is visited by the infected person - and get all these people tested, quarantine if need be.
(Question :- Is it possible to use mobile signal tracing to trace all the places that the person has visited over the past 14 days? And trace all the signals that were in the same premises around the same time?
Answer :- Yes. All are logged into the syslog.)
- There is a need to widen the criteria for tests - as we know that there is a limit a test can be done per day using our golden standard test kits - that need lab test to verify the outcome and will need a day to know the test result.
- As such, there is a need to have a faster and cheaper tests --- that is a rapid test kit to quickly test those people in the vicinity that have no close contact with the infected person - though with 95% accuracy.
- For those that show symptoms and for those that come into contact with the infected person --- the golden standard lab test kit - can be retested on these people - to ensure they are not infected - if yes - then sent to hospital for treatment, else quarantine at home.
(The point is - Even if there 95% accuracy, can quickly isolate the infected.)
b. Quarantine in dorm and Testing
- As foreign workers are so many and even by practising social distancing - it is still possible to get infected by contaminated surfaces as mention in scenarios described in Part 1.
- And in total, as we can only conduct about 2,900 to 3,000 test a day using golden lab test kits ---there is a need to quickly ramp up the tests before more and more foriegn workers got contaminated --- as evident in 141 foreign workers are infected on 12 Apr 2020.
- Thus using the rapid test kits will be one way to speed up the dorm foreign workers testing.
- For essential jobs, foreign workers need to undergo the golden standard lab test - as they will need to go out to community to work - and if not 100% proven - can infect the community.
- For those who are symptomatic, golden standard lab test also need to be conducted - and if found infected - got to be treated in hospitals.
Summary :-
- We felt that the above 2 approaches will be able to plug the gaps and bring down the number of local transmission - either through unlink cases, new clusters or continue infection in foreign workers dorms.
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