Three soldiers dead as tank plunges into river in Taiwan

AFP NewsAugust 16, 2016

ricky l7 seconds ago

The CM11 tank normally carry a crew of 4.

Wonder why this one carry 5 crews.

Thought when crossing a bridge or other obstacles, the safety measure required at least a ground guide to guide the armor crossing to prevent any accident.

I think this safety measure is not observed.

ricky l4 seconds ago

Even in tactical operation - when crossing bridges or other obstacles, thought that troop need to dismount to check and secure the obstacles --- and guide the tanks or armor vehicles to cross it --- to prevent being booby-trap, mine or ambush.

Look like this is not done.

Tulip1 hour ago

M-48 Patton tank. They are no match for China T-80U

Reply

• 

  ricky l4 seconds ago

  Thought T-80U is a Russian tank?
• ricky l4 seconds ago
  Also wonder how does the T-80U swim across the straits to fight the M-48 tank?

  Won't it sink in the sea?
  ricky l14 seconds ago

  If you are thinking of a main battle tank battle across the straits --- then you will be deeply disappointed.

  Because all it need is a good coastal defence to deter landing.

  So why talk about whose battle tanks are better?

  党国天朝2 hours ago

  PLA don't use T80U. it was never deployed. type 96 MBT was better.

  党国天朝1 hour ago

  yea. we should show some compassion to the dead. don't try to stir up hostility.

  however, older tanks sure have outdated safety features.

  ricky l4 seconds ago

  Yes we should show compassion to the unfortunate deceased.

  Peace should be the goal, hostility should not be - because in a conflict, no one win - all lose.

  Even an outdated tanks by performing coastal defense - can deter landings. Because sea moving objects become an open target.

  No one will win in such circumstances as even amphibious vehicles can cross the rough sea will have too light an armour and too small a main gun to engage even an outdated tank.

  ricky l4 seconds ago

  Even landing ships in the sea cannot withstand the tank shellings in coastal defense.

  • 

    党国天朝21 hours ago

    those old tanks are sitting ducks. thermal and radar easy lock on. practice targets for naval ships, ballistic missile subs, aircrafts.

    those latest landing and airdrop tanks some can fire missiles from the turrets. thermal vision easy lock on etc.
  • 

    Tulip11 hours ago

    China brought T-80U from Russia. They are put on reserve.
  • 

    ricky l25 seconds ago

    Are you suggesting that they will only use their tanks as coastal defence only?

    They don't have anti-ship missile deployed?

    They don't have anti-aircraft missile deployed?

    They don't have anti-submarine weapons?

    They don't have thermal imaging nor radar?

    They don't have anti-ballistic missile system?

    Don't underestimate and write off anyone and brandishing weaponry at others.

    It is always better to be more humble and preach friendliness.

    Because confrontation - will always hurt both sides.

    

    ricky l25 seconds ago

    The greatest virtue is not to pick up fight with anyone --- because this will cause your own internal injuries - whether economically, politically, militarily.

    One should not easily commit yourself to military adventurism - unless life and death situation.

    One should not let yourself be surrounded by hostilities - but instead making friends and winning allies.

    Military is not just about weapon system.

    Military is about 心法.

    骄兵必败。
  • ricky l5 seconds ago
    Nazi with their superior weapons system and army conquer all their neighbors in 10 direction.

    Ancient Imperial Japs conquer all their neighbors in 10 direction with their superior weapons system and army.

    Both got defeated - in a mammoth scale.

    No matter how superior --- in a war --- is a lose-lose outcome.

    This is the lessons all mankind should learn from the history - never to commit military adventurism.
  • ricky l5 seconds ago
    Both Nazi and Ancient Imperial Japs eventually fail - because they fail in their 心法。
  • 

    党国天朝yesterday
    Taiwan's NRA still using old American main battle tanks.
    
    

    • 

      Jackyesterday

      then ask PRC gov to stop interfere others from selling military equipment to ROC
    • 

      Passoyesterday

      This is an upgraded and super modified M60 or M48 tanks don't just judge by the appearance. Good enough if not for attacking others!
    • 

      党国天朝yesterday

      it is old, more prone to malfunctions. not talking about the capability.

      anyways, modern tanks should only need 3 crews.
    • 

      ricky l25 seconds ago

      Modern tanks should only need 3 crews - is not true. It is a matter of design.

      The reasons for the difference of 3 crews and 4 crews - is due to the autoloaders of ammo.

      And there are pros and cons of using autoloaders or additional crews.

      Combat outcome drive the design why modern tanks do without the autoloaders even though some use autoloaders.

      One direct hit will blow up all the ammo and the tank will KIA including the crews.

      

      ricky l5 seconds ago

      Another thing is that autoloader - may cause jamming.

      

      ricky l5 seconds ago

      Another thing, autoloader cannot change different type of ammo - to engage specific type of targets.
    • ricky l5 seconds ago
      Some very old tanks also need 3 crews - as they also used auto-loaders.
    • ricky l1 minute ago
      So instead of saying 3 crews are better than 4 crews - must as well say :-

      Should the tank use autoloader of ammo or use human loading of ammo taking into consideration :-

      (1) If autoloader cause jamming of ammo in the chamber and render main gun not able to fire vs human loading of ammo and extraction of jam ammo if occur.

      (2) Danger of direct hit that cause all ammo in the autoloader to explode all at one go (and blow up the whole tank( vs separation of ammo chamber from ammo in chamber for firing and when hit in either one, the tank still can survive to fight.

      (3) When engaging different targets (eg. tank and then personnel), the autoloader will not able to change ammo to engage different type of target vs manual feeding of ammo - HEAT to engage tank, tank rounds to engage disperse troops.

      So before start criticizing and looking down at others --- always know this :-

      天外有天，人外有人。
      ricky l6 seconds ago

      何唯：-

      天外有天，人外有人？

      Isn't there is only 1 heaven? Why in a heaven, there are others heavens?

      There are more than 1 heaven:-

      (1) Sensual Desire Heaven (欲界天）

      (2) Form Heaven (色界天）

      (3) Formless Heaven (出色界天）

      And in each of this Heavens, there are many sub-realms Heavens.

      Hence, the statement :-

      天外有天，人外有人？

      The crux of the message :-

      "Never declare war or hostility based on perceived superiority --- because one will never know what is on the other side and the consequences of hostility."

      The virtue is to go for peace, make friends, make allies.

      For only peace, friendship - will only make you stronger, better, prosperous.

      Conversely, hostility and war means destruction - and will cause you internal injuries, weaker, not stronger.

      ricky l6 seconds ago

      Once you perceived superiority, you will use your perceived new found power - oblivious of the consequences.

      ricky l6 seconds ago

      And this is the danger, that must be informed of its danger as it begin to manifest.

      
      China in talks over ministers' meeting with Japan and South Korea
      Posted 18 Aug 2016 22:35
      
      BEIJING: China's foreign ministry said on Thursday it was in talks with Japan and South Korea about holding an annual trilateral meeting between their foreign ministers, but gave no date.
      
      Last month, a senior Japanese foreign ministry official said Japan was considering holding the meeting in late August, but a flare-up in Sino-Japanese tension had fuelled concern it was difficult to have such a meeting now.
      
      This week, a Japanese newspaper said the three were in talks about having the meeting next week.
      
      China's foreign ministry said Japan was this year's convener and so the talks would happen in Japan.
      
      "Recently, Japan has on many occasions brought up that it hopes to invite China and South Korea's foreign ministers to hold the eighth China-Japan-South Korea foreign ministers meeting in Japan, to talk about trilateral cooperation," the ministry said.
      
      "At present the three parties are in consultations about the exact date of the meeting," it added.
      
      The three-way foreign ministers' meetings are an important framework to discuss pressing regional issues, such as North Korea's nuclear and missile programmes.
      
      Tension between Japan and China mounted this month after a growing number of Chinese coastguard and other vessels sailed near disputed islets in the East China Sea.
      
      The uninhabited islands, called the Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, are controlled by Japan but claimed also by China.
      
      Ties were also strained over the South China Sea dispute, with Japan urging China to adhere to a ruling by an international court that invalidated Beijing's territorial claims there, while China warned Japan not to interfere.
      
      (Reporting by Ben Blanchard; editing by Andrew Roche)
      
      - Reuters
    • China Aligns With Russia in Syria, Creating a Headache for the US
      The Fiscal Times
      By Rob Garver | The Fiscal Times – 2 hours 14 minutes ago
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      China Aligns With Russia in Syria, Creating a Headache for the USView Photo
      China Aligns With Russia in Syria, Creating a Headache for the US
      As if the multi-party war in Syria weren’t complicated enough, it now appears that the People’s Republic of China has decided to take a more active role in the conflict, providing increased humanitarian assistance and possibly military training to Syrian forces, according to China’s state-run media outlet Xinhua.
      China’s announcement that it is increasing its commitment to the Assad regime comes just a day after Russia announced that it had launched strikes against ISIS from an airbase inside the Islamic Republic of Iran.
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      Combined, these two events create a major foreign policy conundrum for the Obama administration, as three of the countries most resistant to the US on the global stage appear to be teaming up against a non-state actor that has frustrated the US for years.
      At first glance, it might seem like a lucky break for the US that three of its adversaries are combining to challenge a fourth. However, the problem is that they are doing so in support of a Syrian regime that has brutally repressed a popular uprising through indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations, torture, and the use of banned chemical weapons, a regime that Obama has said must be removed.
      The Xinhua report said that Guan Youfei, director of the Office for International Military Cooperation of China's Central Military Commission, met Syrian Defense Minister Fahad Jassim al-Freij to discuss expanding a relationship that has so far been more low-key.
      “China and Syria's militaries have a traditionally friendly relationship, and China's military is willing to keep strengthening exchanges and cooperation with Syria's military," Guan said, according to Xinhua.
      Related: Kerry Hopes to Work With Russia on Syria
      A decision by China to increase its involvement in Syria would necessarily require closer cooperation between Beijing and Moscow, because Russian forces have been in Syria propping up the regime of Bashar al-Assad for nearly a year now, mainly through air and naval power.
      In a three-way war, Assad is fighting rebel groups that oppose his increasingly brutal regime at the same time that he is fighting the terror group ISIS, which holds territory in Syria. Some of the rebel groups fighting Assad are simultaneously fighting ISIS.
      Iran, where Shia Islam dominates, is a dedicated foe of ISIS, a terror group that holds that Sunni Islam is the only true form of the religion. ISIS holds that all Shia are apostates worthy of death if they refuse to convert.
      Russia’s state-controlled media immediately jumped on the possibility that China’s increased involvement in the conflict suggested a new alliance.
      “China to Play Greater Role in Syria While US ‘Left Out,’ trumpeted RT.com. The Kremlin-backed site added, “Are we seeing the start of a new anti-Islamic State coalition with Russia, Iran and China’s involvement in Syria? How could it influence the balance of power in the region? What reaction could be expected from the West, particularly from the countries involved in Syria?”
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      Immediate reaction from the White House seems unlikely, but the same doesn’t go for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, who has been a frequent critic of the Obama administration’s policies in the Middle East.
      However, the Trump campaign’s path on this question isn’t obvious, either. Trump has spent much of his time on the campaign trail calling for the US to cooperate with Russia in the battle against ISIS. But he has also repeatedly attacked the Iranian regime and has made criticism of the Chinese government a standard talking point on the stump.
      Complicating matters further is a spate of news stories suggesting that Trump’s campaign chair, Paul Manafort, has been a paid advocate of a Russia-friendly political party in Ukraine, whose leader was overthrown in a popular uprising in 2014. Among the allegations leveled against Manafort is that he organized protests against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization -- something that could be seen as working against the interests of the US, which is a member of the NATO alliance.
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      G
      1users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentGuykill Nounverber  •  1 hour 4 minutes ago Report Abuse
      We can't support ISIS, or ISIS type groups, period. If that means Assad, oh well. The meddling thus far has made us look very bad at home and abroad, and it needs to stop.
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      L
      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentLOL Everyone  •  1 hour 9 minutes ago Report Abuse
      China is also going after the oil & if no oil you think they fart care ?
      Reply
      S
      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentSean  •  1 hour 12 minutes ago Report Abuse
      See perfect example of these so called first world countries. Instead of peace they only create confusion and war.
      Reply
      R
      2users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down3users disliked this commentRicohflex  •  1 hour 36 minutes ago Report Abuse
      This is the result of US ganging with Japan in the South China Sea issue.
      China is already being very tolerant, by siding with Russia over Syria.
      China did not threaten the homeland territory of US. Which is what US is doing against China in the Diaoyutai case and the South China Sea islands.
      1 Reply
      J
      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down3users disliked this commentJack  •  1 hour 18 minutes ago Report Abuse
      The south china sea doesn't belong to PRC.
      ricky lComment Guidelines
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      党
      2users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down1users disliked this comment党国天朝  •  1 hour 41 minutes ago Report Abuse
      china did a very smart move. this not only gives goodwill to Russia but also sending a message to US not to mess with china in Asia. the more US mess with china in aisa the more china mess with them in middle east and also gaining a potential neighbouring ally which can aid china on the seas。 一举两得 一箭双雕 围魏救赵
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      J
      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down1users disliked this commentJenny  •  1 hour 50 minutes ago Report Abuse
      Why don't all these countries back off & allow a election for all legitimate & interest parties in Syria.
      1 Reply
      J
      1users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down1users disliked this commentJack  •  1 hour 18 minutes ago Report Abuse
      Fantasy world
      ricky lComment Guidelines
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      2users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down1users disliked this commentRichard  •  1 hour 53 minutes ago Report Abuse
      Smart move by China using SunTze Art of War, 声东击西。
      2 Replies
      L
      1users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down3users disliked this commentLOL Everyone  •  1 hour 12 minutes ago Report Abuse
      But SunTze didn't mention the art of land grabbing leh.
      k
      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentKok  •  51 minutes ago Report Abuse
      War is the art of land grabbing itself. Self defense is excuse only. Rise peacefully is a fantasy and lie
      ricky lComment Guidelines
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      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentAdicats  •  2 hours 0 minutes ago Report Abuse
      The US should just leave the Middle East alone. After all protecting Israel is the main priority..Israel owns the US.Period.
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      0users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentGreasly  •  2 hours 3 minutes ago Report Abuse
      China is in the game , if IS is listening.
      Reply
      D
      1users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down0users disliked this commentDaniel  •  2 hours 12 minutes ago Report Abuse
      good, let them deal with it, we should just pull out
      Reply
    • W

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      William  •  5 minutes ago Report Abuse

      I don't think China's involvement in Syria will last. Once their soldiers, the only sons of individual families in China, start dying in Syria, they will start going back to the 'non-interference' mode.

      Reply