REACH 224 - Safeguard on reopening border and safe travelling (SK)
04 May 2021 (11am - 7pm)
REACH
[11:07 am, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
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[11:10 am, 04/05/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Some safe opening of air travel in 2021 is possible if governments open up cautiously with regions that have a low number of domestic Covid-19 cases, said Transport Minister Ong Ye Kung.
π¬ What are your views on reopening our borders safely and the measures in place to ensure safe travelling for Singaporeans?
In his speech, Mr Ong acknowledged it is a difficult time to talk about reopening borders, with countries facing the threat of new variants of the Covid-19 virus.
But it is an imperative in the immediate to medium term, even though such talks are "fraught with uncertainties, risks and setbacks", he said.
Noting that the air bubble between Australia and New Zealand is undergoing "some stop and start", he said Singapore is grappling with a cluster of infections that emerged from Tan Tock Seng Hospital.
"But fortunately, and as of now, unlinked cases in the community have remained low. Perhaps that is why we call them bubbles, because they are by nature a bit fragile, given the circumstances we are in," he added.
Mr Ong also outlined the four key measures needed to reopen borders safely. Besides opening up only to countries that have successfully controlled the virus, the other measures are testing for Covid-19, bubble-wrapping travellers and vaccinations.
π https://str.sg/Jt5M
π SG-HK Travel Bubble: https://str.sg/JFs7
π Vaccine passports being discussed: https://str.sg/JC6o
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[11:11 am, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Tread with extreme caution
[11:12 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: We have a lot of options where to travel to, which is good. It would be good to know if Gov is going to adjust the rules on return for those who are vaccinated and test negative. Right now we still have to Quarantine I think. SHN is an option but that has big impact on other people who live at the same address.
[11:14 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: We have to be careful because other countries are opening up (some say prematurely) but we don't want Singapore to be left behind or removed from plans.
[11:15 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: If someone is vaccinated (2 doses) by a reliable country and tests negative before departure and negative on arrival - will we accept they are 'safe'?
[11:17 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: I think Mr Lam's statements quoted in the article are exactly right.
[11:18 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: No spaghetti bowl of rules please! ππ«
[11:18 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Let's set the criteria, monitor and enact as applicable.
[11:19 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: One important factor is whether vaccinated people are still spreading the virus. I don't want to travel and bring it back to my family, especially my kid.
[11:20 am, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Good point
[11:21 am, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I think as our own local community cases are on the rise, we should suspend this part and instead increase the quarantine to 21 days. Because it seems that we already have the India variant circulating fast within our own community.
[11:22 am, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I don't think it warrants that they are 'safe' given that our local trend that those vaccinated are infected.
[11:22 am, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I believe they can still spread.
[11:22 am, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: +1
[11:23 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: opening of air travel have its good and bad aspect
[11:24 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: good as in it will restart aviation indus at its minimal, people still have jobs/ planes will not gets rusty and gears stuck / pilots gets to clock and maintain their skill
[11:25 am, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: My opinion is to ONLY allow travelers from countries with low infection rates. And if their side suspend our travelers we need to suspend theirs too cos viruses work both ways and it doesn’t care about nationality.
I still think the low clusters are more of a cause for concern than travel bubble etc. if we don’t control it well no need to talk about travel bubbles. My 2.14 cents as usual
[11:26 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: bad - human kind do not know how evolving this virus can be ; dun any how open buddle with countries that cannot control their infection rate, is not we are disposing or isolating them BUT WE need to protect our self and economy too right? how many time we need to shut down? build bubbles with countries who are strict in their handling of cases and keep it low , let us and these countries set out as an example to the rest of the world THERE IS NO HERO COUNTRY IN THE ERA IS ABOUT HOW COUNTRIES COLLABORATE AND MAINTAIN THAT LEVEL
[11:29 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: What is considered a low number of cases in a country? What if all those cases are in hospital? Is it a daily rate or total? Do we review the trend (going up or down)? Current active cases? Recovery rate? Do we look at death rate? Variants discovered? Testing Rate? Etc - there are many questions to answer in reviewing the safety of another country. We can't close our doors forever.
[11:30 am, 04/05/2021] +Rama: If cases in each country can fluctuate, no one country should be considered low risk!?
[11:30 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: ehh we give some ideas the details let the authorities to work out reh
[11:30 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no need so details
[11:31 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: whatever idea they like those up there will have more reosuces and data than these few of us in here
[11:31 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but ideas and suggestion is what is lacking usually thus ground ideas and usually very practical and truth
[11:31 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Yes, lol. I was illustrating the complexities rather than suggesting we tell them. Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify that! π
[11:32 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no is good to give example i just want to remind all that we here give suggestion not draw battle plan
[11:32 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: else we will be the one sitting at steering committee ..... but too many chefs make the soup bad .. so lets be the critics and suggesters
[11:32 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: hahahahahaha
[11:33 am, 04/05/2021] +Ben: ha yes indeed!
[11:33 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: there is no right or wrong answer in here
[11:33 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but every suggestion how logical and how wild counts
[11:33 am, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: so keep it coming
[11:35 am, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: *Local clusters
[11:39 am, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Hi Admins, can I know how to invite friends to this group?
[11:46 am, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: don't think so, REACH will decide which group to put
[11:46 am, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Thanks, where can they approach if they wish to join any of these groups?
[11:57 am, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Write in to their feedback unit and you will get a reply.
[11:58 am, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: https://www.reach.gov.sg/
[11:59 am, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: scroll down "REACH WhatsApp Chat Group" click on register now
[0:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +Linda: https://www.reach.gov.sg/participate/reach-WhatsApp-group-chat
[0:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Thanks all!
[0:16 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Ong Ye Kung: Difficult time to talk about reopening borders, with countries facing threat of new variants of Covid-19 virus:: https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/ong-ye-kung-difficult-time-talk-about-reopening-borders-countries-facing-threat-new?utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany
[0:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: A total of 26 public places cleaned after visits by those in TTSH Covid-19 cluster
Officers from the National Environment Agency (NEA) were deployed to monitor the cleaning and disinfection works to ensure that they were done according to NEA's guidelines, the Ministry of Sustainability and the Environment (MSE) said in a statement on Tuesday (May 4).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/a-total-of-26-public-places-cleaned-after-visits-by-those-in-ttsh-covid-19-cluster
[0:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: We have been told clearly that the Vaccine is resilient to mutations. ie The virus would have to mutate over years to transform enough for the vaccine not to be effective. Is that information now being revised?
[0:49 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/5/3/22411713/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-double-mutant-india
[0:52 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: "As more people get vaccinated, we expect virus circulation to decrease, which will then lead to fewer mutations." - This is part of the critical message to encourage people to vaccinate. https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-effects-of-virus-variants-on-covid-19-vaccines
[1:06 pm, 04/05/2021] +Peter T Ng: Compelling reason
[1:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Resilient… cause they likely use a site that unlikely mutate based on estimates from past sequence and experience…
If we can find the primal virus then we can determine what rarely change over time. That can come up with a very effective vaccine
[1:09 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. What is the techniques adopted by this covid-19 pandemic?
Covid is adopting "Guerilla warfare".
2. The objectives of guerilla warfare is to :-
a. Strike when people are complacent.
b. Spread to as many people as possible in quick time.
c. Spread terror and try to overwhelm people psychologically.
d. Damage Country Economy - by preventing people from coming out to work, socialise - that will hit business and jobs.
e. Lie low - when Country counter-strike back by ring-fencing the covid spread - "divide-and-conquer" to eliminate them.
Covid will hide in inconspicuous corner for the next strike when conditions are right.
3. How do we tackle such stealth covid - that adopt such "guerilla warfare"?
akan-datang .......
[1:22 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Covid will still be there - ready to strike - whether locally or from overseas.
This is the "Hard Truth" that we must acknowledge as long as covid is still not defeated domestically and the rest of the World.
- We cannot stay low, hide ourselves like turtle hiding in our shelf, wrap ourselves up --- our Economy, our business, our Jobs will die --- because our External Economy is 3 times the size of our GDP and our domestic economy - the malls, retail business, F&B, transport, etc rely on local people to spend to survive.
2. Covid will attempt to devastate our "Local Economy" and our "External Economy" - and this means our domestic business and jobs as well as our trade, travel, tourism etc will be impacted.
- Do we succumb to covid double threat on our domestic Economy and our External Economy?
- My answer is "No".
- We must design approaches to tackle :-
a. Community covid spread ---- by effectively ring-fence them - so that we can continue to operate our Domestic Economy.
b. Imported cases - by effectively trapping them at the border - so that we can continue to allow air-travel, land-travel, sea-travel.
3. Then how do we do it?
aka datang ......
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[1:51 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Then how do we do it?
a. Tackle Community Spread - and keep our "Domestic Economy" going.
- We must be able to do a good projection with some degree of confidence - about how soon can we defeat the covid domestically?
- If we achieve "herd immunity" by Dec 2021 through vaccination --- as we see from Israel, US, UK, Spain vaccination programme ---- mass unmask events ----- then with "cautious projection" ---- I think we can quite confidently say that we can control and contain covid-19 by end Dec 2021.
b. Tackle overseas spread - and keep our "External Economy" going.
- For the rest of the World --- it may take a few years (with 5 years projection -- should be a good objective projection) for the World to reach herd immunity through vaccination.
- Assume some advanced Countries, our main trading partners will be able to achieve herd immunity by 2 years times.
- Also some of Countries may have control their virus spread well - though not achieving herd immunity through vaccination --- but through masking and social distancing.
2. With the above reasonable projection in mind - how do we frame our approaches to tackle the covid - domestically and externally?
aka datang .....
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[2:14 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
With the above reasonable projection in mind - how do we frame our approaches to tackle the covid - domestically and externally?
1. 2 approaches to tackle community spread - to keep our "Domestic Economy" gping.
a. 1st approach (when covid is spreading domestically)
b. 2nd approach (when covid is subdue)
a. 1st approach (when community spreading -- like TTSH cluster we are facing now) as well as (unlink clusters).
- Currently, we are suffering from fast spreading TTSH cluster - when people unmask and most people are unvaccinated - exposing to high virus load.
- We must be able to contain it and ring-fence it quickly - and hopefully by 15 May 2021 - bring it under control.
- With effective contact tracing, testing, and ring-fence (quarantine, SHN) - we must be able to contain it with confidence that TTSH and unlink clusters will no longer spread in the community.
- 15 May 2021 - to do a stock take will provide a good answer for us. Did we contain it, if not we tighten restriction measures to contain it.
- The following picture give a good indication how well we ring-fence the TTSH cluster, ICA cluster and other unlink clusters. Government define it as 9 clusters (as other than TTSH cluster, the rest of the clusters look pretty well contain).
- It may be something like the Changi Airport ICA cluster - where spread is subdue and mostly don't spread to his 130 colleagues who are mostly vaccinated and with mask on.
- ICA approach to progressively vaccinate the working people under 45 years old, proper face masks and good social distancing measures - is a good measure to contain the covid and prevent it from spreading.
- So if we contain TTSH cluster well, I think we can curb this infection wave with cautious confidence.
b. 2nd approach (when covid is subdue) - using the "Spike cool" model - we can slowly relax the restriction meaures if infection number fall and very low and especially when vaccination rate go up to achieve herd immunity.
- Like what we are going through now - Hybrid 50% Work at home and in office - then to 75%.
- 5 people gathering to 8 etc.
- Relaxing of mall number - eg. odd-even, to number of people allow in mall, cinema etc.
2. What are the approaches to tackle imported cases - to keep our "Extermal Economy" going?
aka datang ......
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[2:18 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1752572638263896&id=100005335308340
These are good data points
[2:20 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Can meh?how?
[2:21 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Never check out?
[2:22 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Go to polyclinic and show them the covid exposure.
[2:43 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: -----
1. Approaches to tackle imported cases - to keep our "External Economy" going.
Context :- We must keep our air travel bubble going :-
Scenario 1:- Whether our local community is spreading, but overseas are curb.
Scenario 2 :- When our local community spreading is curb, overseas are also curb.
Scenario 1 - When our local community is spreading, but good control of infection in some Countries
a. Countries with good control maybe hesitant to allow Singaporeans or residents to visit their Countries if our infection is spreading locally.
b. Countries will be afraid to send their citizens to Singapore - in case their citizens are infected here.
c. Thus to instill confidence to keep the "air bubble" going ---- we must design a safe "air travel bubble" ----- even though our community infection is spreading:-
- I propose the "ring-fence" approach to air travel, tours, green lanes, MICE etc - that includes testing, safe distancing, segregation of overseas travellers from local community, isolation, quarantine - from airport, transit areas, hotels, tourists spots, f&b, retail, tour bus, convention areas, meeting place, event halls etc - to reboot our economy.
- We have to maintain our air hub, air travel through organised travel, group insurance and health test - through bilateral arrangements with countries - to ensure covid will not be imported or exported - but targeted MICE, tourism, retail, f&b can be safely arranged for foreign tours to preserve our air hub, aviation sector and our retail. Else our air hub may demise.
- Our keyword, our strategy is known as "ring-fence".
- Ring-fence tours, ring-fence MICE.
- Singapore did very well in ring-fencing our dorms, aged home, hospitals, schools, work place, air transit, malls etc - to prevent infection spreading.
- Similarly, we can extend our ring-fence expertise into organised tours and MICE - so as to reboot our air hub and tourism sector.
- This will give confidence to other Countries that even though our community is spreading - we can quickly bring it under control.
- At the same time, we can protect their travellers coming to our Country - as he/she travel in a "safe corridor, safe bubble" - and will unlikely to get infected while they travel here.
- Also Singaporeans and resident travel up to the corresponding Countries - are tested, vaccinated (I propose) - and will not spread infection to their Countries during visit.
- I believe with such arrangement, we can still keep our "air travel bubble" going - whether community spreadings happen in Singapore or not.
Scenario 2 :- When our local community spreading is curb, overseas also curb.
a. Under such circumstances, we ensure that overseas travellers are tested, preferably vaccinated.
b. Similarly, Singaporeans and residents travelling to overseas are tested and vaccinated before travel.
c. We should allow travellers reasonable and more relax travelling into Singapore.
To conclude - we can ensure "safe air travel bubble" - continue to operate under either of the 2 scenarios --- and keep our "External Economy" going ---- and yet keep pandemic in check and in control ---- no matter how the covid deploy "guerilla technique" against us.
We can continue to keep our Economy resilience - domestically and externally - not succumb to covid guerilla warfare.
And yet able to tackle and defeat the covid - when it spike, and defeat it in the long term through vaccination herd immunity.
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[2:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Got but the recent TTSH cluster one lady works in WWP on the weekends. If you go to WWP during that period sure get this notice.
[3:27 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/covid-19-social-gatherings-should-be-limited-2-day-public-advised-only-meet-regular
Still did not see any push by the gov on limit social gathering to up to 2 groups per day.
[3:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: May 13 Istana Open House cancelled due to worsening Covid-19 situation
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/may-13-istana-open-house-cancelled-due-to-worsening-covid-19-situation
[3:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Vana: But work wise etc, there is also no push by gov
[3:30 pm, 04/05/2021] +Vana: Some companies still asking employees to go back office though surge in cases even though the staff can wfh as well
[3:30 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: π±π¨ MOM to step up surprise check
[3:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: great!
[3:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: these companies are really findings excuse ....
[3:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: some companies dun even enforce mask citing reason like ooo staff drink water so no wear mask
[3:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: So if confirm positive and more than 2 social gathering any penalty? π
[3:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: No requirement check also no use no?
[3:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: As LKY once said, hurt them in their pockets!
[3:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Increase penalties
[3:39 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: It is a reduce chance of serious Covid. Not virus proof need to get that across
[3:39 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: π
[3:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Having the vaccine reduce the percentage of people getting sick at the same time.
Some will gain immunity, which in turns reduce the total chance a person get to be infected by Covid.
With the reduce number of infected personal, resource can be pool to save those that eventually caught the disease even after vaccinated.
[3:41 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/reaching-herd-immunity-is-unlikely-in-the-us-experts-now-believe
US unlikely to achieve herd immunity because the remaining about 50% are anti-vaxx or vaccines-sceptic.
Many vaccination centre see a sharp dip in visitors despite abundance of vaccines.
[3:42 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/eu-drug-agency-starts-covid-19-jab-evaluation-for-12-to-15-year-olds
If vaccines for children is approved, herd immunity can be achieved - and can possibly end the pandemic.
[3:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Hence I did say before mask, is a likelihood to be permanent although I really don’t like it haiz
[3:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: yES
[3:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: I really don’t like the idea that we have to be vaccinated every time, a super bug is around.
Taking vaccine long term for every new diseases might be the future π₯
We don’t want our love ones to die prematurely by this virus. But is it the right way? Only time will tell hopefully the path we are on are the right one.
Or traveling for leisure will become a thing of past. Cause 3rd country will like unable to be vaccinated in a long while… be it reject as they don’t understand it or reject just because of choice or country is unable to purchase for its citizen.
[3:50 pm, 04/05/2021] +jimmy chew: I
[3:51 pm, 04/05/2021] +jimmy chew: I hope it's settled.. how come so unorganized. Just curious. I thought they were doing a wonderful job
[4:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: 17 new Covid-19 cases in S'pore, 5 are linked to TTSH cluster https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/17-new-covid-19-cases-in-spore-5-are-linked-to-ttsh-cluster?&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany
[4:12 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: 5 more COVID-19 cases linked to TTSH cluster, 12 new imported infections
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/moh-covid-19-new-cases-community-imported-may-4-ttsh-cluster-14740616
[4:15 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Oh good.
Look like ttsh cluster number is dwindling.
[4:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Cheers!
[4:21 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Agreed, so strange to see this here in Singapore especially considering how well the vaccine was organised
[4:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Inaccuracies flagged in Financial Times article on S'pore's carbon emissions growth
https://sg.news/?p=537922
[4:33 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Police investigating 19 people for allegedly drinking alcohol & socialising at Fusionopolis pub
https://sg.news/?p=537900
[4:34 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Lol asking for it
[4:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Too early to tell… 2 weeks to be sure
[4:38 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Money more than enough to compensate but never consider jail time
[4:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: If you can operate for long term yes… if not lol..
[4:43 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: 3 repeat offenders among 14 F&B outlets penalised for COVID-19 breaches
https://sg.news/?p=537815
[5:16 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: * A timeline of the Tan Tock Seng Hospital COVID-19 cluster*
The Tan Tock Seng Hospital (TTSH) cluster is currently the largest active COVID-19 cluster, with a total of 40 cases linked to it as of Tuesday (May 4).
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/timeline-tan-tock-seng-hospital-covid-19-cluster-moh-14741614
[5:20 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: i agree too early to tell
[5:20 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: recently the TTSH confirmed cases need a second or third swab to test positive
[5:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: If any one been to TTSH, you will wonder as I did why the in-patients aren't masked up.
[5:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: π±π¨π€·♂️π€¦♀️
[5:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Wear mask throughout the stay?
[5:30 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/visitors-to-wards-in-a-public-hospital-allowed-to-take-masks-off-if-they-have-food
Visitors remove mask in general wards in hospitals.
[5:30 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: you mean those patients inside shared wards don't wear masks? π¨
[5:30 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: All hospital the same lar
[5:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: You warded you know one mah
[5:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Sleep also must wear?
[5:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Dan: https://nypost.com/2021/05/02/thousands-of-revelers-attend-music-festival-in-wuhan/
[5:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Mind as well request for isolation ward
[5:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Lol no need.. as long as you don’t walk around they don’t really care
[5:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: How many can pay for A ward?
[5:33 pm, 04/05/2021] +Dan: Once the epicentre of the outbreak, now they are attending music festival~ Peeps, if Wuhan can do it, so can we~ Hang on!
[5:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: π π€£π
[5:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: In the meanwhile in UK
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thousands-brits-party-uks-second-24021722.amp
[5:37 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: dun do silly thing when the red flag is still waving in your face ...... these so call gangho countries will see the effects and cry no tears
[5:38 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Waiting for 4th or 5th wave I guess
[5:38 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: If they are healthy , they aren’t warded .
[5:40 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: Yes, they don't. And then visitors come, pretend to drink, or eat and lower their masks or remove their masks. Nurses walk in and out, don't even care. Bo chup
[5:40 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: The nurses bo chup
[5:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: https://www.facebook.com/220046891494277/posts/1953197678179181/?sfnsn=mo
[5:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Ah I read it in a commentary too
[5:43 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: Weird hor? My little boy's theory is that the inpatients are staying there, so it's their home. At home don't need to wear masks mah. Smart boy, right? π
[5:44 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: clap clap not full wrong hahhhahaha
[5:45 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: creative thinking
[5:45 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Not all hospitals are like that though. Like SGH you will be told to mask up once you get up from your bed
[5:49 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The message about printing cert is a scam
[5:49 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Confusing
[5:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Boon Phing: How do we know the apps data is real and authentic?
[6:08 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Don't know that's why better don't try.
It could be a phishing site that phish people particular.
[6:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: Many who are not so savvy will get scammed. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
[6:16 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: The project is helmed by Govtech
[6:24 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Is a join project by moh
[6:24 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: ?
[6:26 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
For those who already vaccinated (2doses) can visit notarise.gov.sg to get your digital vaccination certificate. Available 2 weeks after your second dose.
[6:26 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Is this authentic or scam site?
[6:27 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Since you have been tech savvy , Just access and read ..
[6:28 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I better not try.
Don't want my device to be infected by malware.
[6:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: lol .
[6:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: .gov.sg.lolscam
[6:37 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Let the govt with dedicated "dark web" device to try.
They can isolate and trap the malware and do forensic on it - to see whether it's a phishing site with malware or not.
The dark web device is a sandbox.
My device is not.
[6:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Is sounds naughty π€π€£
[6:44 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Omg dark web so scary siol I quaking in my pants
[6:46 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
If not can send the link to security companies such as fireEyes, McAfee, semantec etc to do a "sandbox detonation" - and advise us whether is it a scam sites or authentic sites.
[6:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Chibaboom!!! π₯
[6:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: π π ππ€¦♀️π±π¨π€·♂️
[6:51 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Megan 7pm soon time to close shop liao
[6:57 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: I tried typing this address into my browser on computer. But it says "can't reach this page". Beware!
[6:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: π±π¨
[6:58 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Sounds like a phishing site.
[6:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: So, the link provided is not linking to what what words say.
[6:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Cap of 5 people for social gatherings, household visits to return as Singapore tightens COVID-19 measures
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/cap-of-5-people-social-gatherings-household-visits-covid-19-moh-14742766
[6:59 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Better scan your device with security software in case got malware.
But no guarantee your security software can detect the malware.
[6:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: 5 COVID-19 cases in Tan Tock Seng Hospital cluster have Indian variant of coronavirus
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ttsh-covid-19-cluster-indian-variant-coronavirus-tan-tock-seng-14742808
[7:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Typo error ..
[7:02 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: π Cap of 5 people for social gatherings, household visits to return as Singapore tightens COVID-19 measures
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/cap-of-5-people-social-gatherings-household-visits-covid-19-moh-14742766
π 5 COVID-19 cases in Tan Tock Seng Hospital cluster have Indian variant of coronavirus
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ttsh-covid-19-cluster-indian-variant-coronavirus-tan-tock-seng-14742808
πTravellers with recent travel history to higher risk places will serve 21-day stay-home notice from May 8
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/travellers-history-higher-risk-places-serve-21-day-stay-home-14742884
[7:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
We will be extending the chat to 10pm today
Thank you.
[7:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: OT OT!!
[7:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Good discovery
[7:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Time for the new team to get cracking!
[7:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: I like the changes
[7:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Already suspected liao. The indian variant spreads discreetly and is more deadly.
[7:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: This new committee more decisive
[7:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Nicolette Tan: dont think the committee has changed
[7:05 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Indian variants in TTSH cluster.
No wonder can breach through the vaccination for the medical staff.
[7:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: πCompulsory TraceTogether check-ins at venues brought forward to May 17
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/compulsory-tracetogether-check-ins-at-venues-brought-forward-to-may-17
πGyms and other higher-risk settings to be closed; size limits on large events tightened
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/gyms-and-other-higher-risk-settings-to-be-closed-size-limits-on-large-events
[7:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I think still a bit late sia.
[7:06 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: π€«
[7:06 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Might as well readjust back to Phase 2.
[7:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Different cos the restrictions not the same
[7:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya what i mean we should tighten back to Phase 2. Coz that indian variant goes out of control super easily.
[7:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Laurent: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/cap-of-5-people-social-gatherings-household-visits-covid-19-moh-14742766
[7:08 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Channel 8 news say government will tighten back to phase 2.
[7:11 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Din see leh?
[7:11 pm, 04/05/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The newscaster announced.
Not in news report.
[7:12 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Thank you for your views so far. ⏰ We will be extending the chat to 10pm today. ⏰
π’ Topic π’
What are your views on the tightened Covid-19 measures just announced by the Government to contain the spread of the virus and to keep the community safe?
• Social gathering size in Singapore to be cut from 8 to 5 people from May 8-30
• Only up to 50% of staff allowed at workplaces at any one time from May 8
• Mandatory check-ins with TraceTogether token or app to be brought forward to May 17
• Gyms, fitness studios to be shut from May 8-30
π https://str.sg/JtpC
π https://str.sg/JtpF
π https://str.sg/Jtpy
π https://str.sg/JtpC
[7:12 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Ooh...
[7:14 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: To me it’s more like Phase 2.5 or something
[7:14 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I think the original source is still due to import. If our import was tightened and scrutinized earlier when patterns of surge arise in Mar, probably we don't have to tighten domestically now.
[7:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: And I feel it is a bit late, although better than never.
[7:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: I welcome the decisive steps to curb any further infection. The increase from 14-21 days SHN is a necessary.
[7:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Now can only hope it does not go viral.
[7:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes. Agree with the 21 days SHN.
[7:18 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: If we have their variant and can beat infection rates down we should get a prize from WHO
[7:19 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Back to 5 for gathering is great to curb gathering . At least there will be revenue activities for businesses too.
Closing of gym is also necessary to curb infection .
[7:19 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: π Tighter Covid-19 measures: What you can and cannot do, changes to SHN
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/tighter-covid-19-measures-what-you-can-and-cannot-do-changes-to-shn
π Gan to help MTF co-chairs and to ensure continuity in Singapore's fight against Covid-19
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/gan-to-help-mtf-co-chairs-and-to-ensure-continuity-in-singapores-fight-against
[7:20 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Yes . We can acquire and learn the know how to mitigate the variants .. it will be good for our bio industries
[7:22 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: BREAKING: Singapore will reduce the number of people allowed to interact in social gatherings from 8 to 5, with similar restrictions on the number of household visitors.
Indoor gyms and fitness studios will have to close: https://cna.asia/3tiOnpF
“This is not a circuit breaker,” says Lawrence Wong
[7:22 pm, 04/05/2021] +Timothy Low: We were a bit too late to close the borders.
[7:24 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: The border cannot be close cause we need business… as a hub cannot isolate.
India we need them for manual labour. As most manual labour comes from India due to cost
[7:24 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: We see more BTO delay as it goes
[7:24 pm, 04/05/2021] +Girl Waving Hand: swift decision making π
[7:25 pm, 04/05/2021] +Timothy Low: I guess it’s a chicken and egg thing. Most importantly if next time got such trend emerging we will need to make even more swift decision to close to prevent further damage like what it is doing to us now
[7:25 pm, 04/05/2021] +Timothy Low: Lesson learnt
[7:25 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: We put a non vaccinated officer on the front line and now 3 weeks of plans thrown up in the air...
[7:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: We will always find opportunities to open up… eventually just how long and when.. usually earlier than later
[7:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Valli: For now we need to tighten the border controls.
Our priority now is to contain this new cluster.
[7:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Timothy Low: Another lesson learnt. COVID is here to stay so we need to derive the lesson learnt from current experience
[7:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Possibility of circuit breaker ‘not ruled out’ as COVID-19 taskforce announces tighter measures
Singapore has not ruled out the possibility of another “circuit breaker” in light of the recent increase in COVID-19 cases in the community, but it hopes to avoid that situation with newly announced restrictions, said Health Minister Gan Kim Yong.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/possibility-of-circuit-breaker-not-ruled-out-covid-19-singapore-14742990
[7:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: There are few clusters now eh
[7:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Girl Waving Hand: authorities should allow foreign labour from alternative source countries to ease labour supply crunch in areas such as construction and manufacturing which Singaporeans dont want to take up
[7:27 pm, 04/05/2021] +Girl Waving Hand: especially now that borders with India is closed
[7:28 pm, 04/05/2021] +Valli: But more widespread & contagious virus
[7:28 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya that is the issue.
[7:30 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Most countries that have cheap labour are pretty bad with Covid π
[7:30 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Agree .
[7:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Two hands up agreed
[7:33 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: On the side note those waiting for BTO will have to rent if they already extended.. unless government extend the contract fulfillment
[7:34 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Actually govt has to help with rental sia. Probably get more PPHS units.
[7:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: No choice . Not just construction , maritime and even IT will be affected
[7:37 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Unlike large resource-rich countries, Singapore cannot afford to close its borders for long: Lawrence Wong
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/unlike-large-resource-rich-countries-singapore-cannot-afford-to-close-its-borders
[7:39 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Lol just in time for the discussion π€£
[7:40 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes we can’t close our borders
[7:40 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Yes, I think this is a long running saga we will have to deal with
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Covid is the new norm
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: I still think measures aren't tight enough.
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: As LW said, he expects this to last at least four years .
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: People shouldn’t get shock if we go back to Phase 2.5 or something
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: I am expecting it soon
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: He should have used the threat of fines and jail again to remind people and warn them.
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: There is never a measure that will be tight enough as long there is human movement in and out
[7:41 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Yes
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: How we live with it only
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Also true
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: Y
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: UK has 2,000 cases a day and holds a no mask party. We have 10 cases and go back to phase 2 lol
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Rama: We can't follow them
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: I agree
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Causes when no money… life will have to go back to a certain form if not… those related industries will just be no more
[7:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Going to say this again. We can kena whatever variant but if we all cooperate we can beat this damn virus.
[7:43 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Swift action worked well last year, apart from the dormitories. Good to do the same now.
[7:43 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Gardens by the bay, zoo and everything can’t survive by Singaporean visiting
[7:43 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: WHO should give us an award if we pull this off for a few years
[7:43 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: All those nice stuff won’t exist for long going negative
[7:50 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Our Ks in our blood . Kiasu and Kiasi mentality will bring us far .
[7:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +YT: We do what is right for us and what works for us. Don't need to compare and also no basis for comparison because we don't have the resources and deep pockets like many of these more developed economies.
[8:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Yup
[8:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +CQ: @+REACH what's the status for universities and exams in light of the new restrictions? Is there still any basis for IHLs to demand that we return to campus given the spike in cases?
[8:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Campus only can visit by student and staff
[8:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Cant even buy food from the stalls
[8:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Already start control way back
[8:13 pm, 04/05/2021] +CQ: We are students. The uni had required some faculties to go back to campus for the exam this semester because it's Phase 3, but most of the uni still do the take-home exam. So now that there are new restrictions, there should be no more basis to demand for us to go back. But the announcements are silent on that. Hope the task force can make it clear once and for all
[8:21 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: My token suddenly no bat today
[8:21 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: I last used on Sat nia
[8:21 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: By using the SafeEntry gateway
[8:23 pm, 04/05/2021] +KS Foong: Just want to check, when we use the token to scan in a venue, do we need to scan out ?
[8:25 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Must go all the way back to the centre to change batt? Why don't just give us extra battery to change ourselves. Seems to run out v fast
[8:25 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Shall we use Apple air tag? Lol can last one year π€£π€£
[8:25 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Ya
[8:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Mine 3 months only. Maybe too many exchanges with other devices. π€£
[8:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: No need
[8:27 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: But we should react faster based on trend surges.
[8:27 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: I'm using app all the while cos I see my Frens keep changing batt so mafan
[8:27 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: But think still need to get for back up in case phone no batt π
[8:28 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Ya lor. If use TT app, need to keep charging hp
[8:28 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: So see u want to keep charging HP or keep changing token. π
[8:28 pm, 04/05/2021] +65 8233 5453: if we lose our token
[8:28 pm, 04/05/2021] +65 8233 5453: how to report and do we need to pay for a new one?
[8:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: First lost,no need
[8:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Tbh we can react so quickly now is proof that we can confident on how to handle the ground situation already
[8:29 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: https://token.gowhere.gov.sg/faq
[8:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Nine of the 40 Covid-19 cases in the TTSH cluster who were vaccinated had mild to no symptoms
Of the 40 Covid-19 cases in the Tan Tock Seng Hospital (TTSH) cluster, the nine who had received full doses of the Covid-19 vaccinations were either asymptomatic or exhibited mild symptoms, and none had required oxygen support.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/nine-of-the-40-covid-19-cases-in-the-ttsh-cluster-who-were-vaccinated-had-mild-to-no
[8:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: I still remember last year we were so indecisive until PM Lee had to come out drink water
[8:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: π
[8:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I dun drag controlling the borders after 1 month when the surge trend started in 2nd week of march is considered quick reaction. If quick reaction i think the turnaround will be 7 days ba.
[8:31 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: So cannot use phone?
[8:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +CQ: I don't know if this is a good thing, because this means that those vaccinated are silent carriers.
[8:32 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Import cases surge isn’t the issue
[8:33 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: We catch those before they go into community
[8:33 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Can I know how to register our helpers for the vaccine.
[8:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: The local cases are the issue and it’s only recent week that the cases surge upwards
[8:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: now is for citizens and residents (pr) only
[8:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: other not yet
[8:35 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Thought fdw got priorities?
[8:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but i do echo your concerns helpers should be vaccinated, they are the weakest link in the house hold
[8:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: i might be outdated
[8:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +Daphne See: Agree. They go out with who we roughly know only
[8:36 pm, 04/05/2021] +KS Foong: Make the unit rechargeable !
[8:37 pm, 04/05/2021] +Dan: Can we have more information on the Indian B1167 variant? Public has to know what is this new threat we are dealing with.
[8:37 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: even if yours do not go out , they still minggle with their "friends"in the neighborhood which again is the weakest link
[8:37 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: can someone confirm please if helpers can get early vaccinated too
[8:38 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Try pre register?
[8:38 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Can go thru?
[8:39 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Should be able but don’t think priority
[8:39 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: Yes. Mine is vaccinated
[8:39 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Import cases do not mean that they don't spread into community. If not ttsh won't have the indian variant.
[8:40 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: can someone help dap out, is good to have employer like her to eliminate the weakest link in the family and her neighborhood
[8:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Dan: I agree and wonder if there is a need to issue an advisory to restrict domestic workers to go for their off days. Problem is the employer has no control of where they go during off days, yet liable for their well-being.
[8:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Cos the others complacent otherwise how did it infect of all places the hospital which should be the “holiest” in terms of cleanliness?
[8:44 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If the import is stricter, then it won't even be present coz they are not even let in in the first place. If the border has been tightened in March, it has a lower risk to infect the ttsh staff and turn it into cluster.
[8:45 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: So if a Singaporean in India doing work can’t come back to Sg?
[8:47 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If it was blocked since March, ya.
[8:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Sadly yes
[8:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Indian ethnics is one of the 4 major races in Singapore . So how do close our borders ? Besides there are SG business needs for their construction , domestic and maritime workers ..
[8:48 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Should send both of you there then lol
[8:49 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: My work does not require overseas. They can stagger it like within 7 days of surge trend, they first block the foreigners or work pass dependants, then another 3 days of surge, block the Singaporeans and PRs.
[8:50 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Yup expect more delays
[8:50 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Pray tell your industry
[8:50 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If u see properly, mostly are the foreigners on work pass or their dependants that make the bulk of import cases
[8:51 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: That is why go by country and not for all countries.
[8:51 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Yes .. already blocked .. Business problems started few weeks back
[8:52 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Not really a choice… as most workers comes from badly hit countries π
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: The surge trend analysis shd do by per country and not by all countries. E.g. country A has a surge, the border controls will apply to it first to curb the influx. If country B has done better and has 0 cases, border control will relax for country B.
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Including Malaysia
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: REACH can you get the miniseries to share what the standing orders for travelers from India from a few weeks back?
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: But the reaction time shd not be like 1 month apart.
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Don’t want our people to be ignorant
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: My colleagues don’t get to go home some almost 2 years π₯
[8:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Your suggestion is to deny our Singaporean to return to singapore .
[8:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: let's all be greatful is only phase 2 and not CB yeah
[8:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If it got worse.
[8:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: hope this teaches more of us to wake up and dun be complacent with simple action like safe distancing and proper mask wearing
[8:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Wait and see don’t want full on..
Imagine like Perth 3 case close 3 days
[8:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Some people want our society to become more draconian π
[8:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: The mask issue is hard to educate π€¦π»
[8:55 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: the virus is smarter than we human .......
[8:55 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: All the nose mask wearing people
[8:55 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: And the food eating walking humans
[8:55 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: till date i dun understand wear mask can die
[8:55 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: At least sg mask up better than other countries who celebrate with no mask.
[8:55 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: sorry but if really can die they better die ... den be a bane to the society hahahaha
[8:56 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: maybe new teaching mask up or + 10k fine
[8:56 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: will that help?
[8:56 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Lol government recover cost in no time
[8:56 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: π€£π€£π€£
[8:56 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: else ppl will still think 300 fine only mah
[8:56 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Then why men serve NS when we have possibility a Govt that may close borders on them when they seek refuge ie. Home .
This is a very dangerous preposition if this is coming Real .
[8:57 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: I think caught 2nd time then double… 3 time double the double then will be great lol… see who dare
[8:57 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is it not a win win situation hehehehe
[8:57 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: I hear got exercise for NS overseas still on going is it true?
[8:57 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: 3rd time will be 30k!!!! 3/4 price of coe !!!!!
[8:57 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but now is for a MASK!
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: he better frame that mask up
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: No lar
300
600
1200
2400 and so on
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: 30k too much lar
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Lol
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +CQ: Actually I'd rather they CB one shot, rather than to be reactive. ιΏηδΈε¦ηη
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: There is no long CB can prevent
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: Then what is the value of citizenship? Your own country turn her back on citizen in their time of needs ? Just the Aussie ?
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: We still bring in more people
[8:58 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: 300 too little up the price to 10k i think that will reall teach all resident we mean business dun screw around
[8:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: India ban all Indian from going back previously
[8:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Not something new
[8:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Protect the country so that you have one to come back to
[8:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: That’s why the Aussie are angry with their Govt lately .
[8:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Not bring problems back
[9:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: We aren’t Indians . We are better
[9:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Working overseas is a choice… if you go you have to bare the risk and benefit
[9:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: They will not have emotional bond with the country as she betray them in the first place
[9:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: think the concept of what aus varies from people to people
[9:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: Then there is no point of serving NS .
[9:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +CQ: Yeah... I actually question the legality of that directive. If they are citizens and residents of the country, they have right of abode. I don't know if it's constitutional to turn them away from that right.
[9:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: We are way smaller no room for error
[9:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: No … not true. If companies send on posting ?
[9:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: from the govt point of view i cannot afford to break what had been done locally by letting a few returning residents who might be a high risk
[9:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but i am not abandoning you
[9:01 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Can reject and quit.. is a choice..
Got company you can’t quit?
[9:02 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: We have to deal with it as nation
[9:02 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: look at what happen in the earlier part ...... countries will send bonded flights out to bring their residents home
[9:02 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: In war, we never leave our own behind
[9:02 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: chinese saying do it for the mass not for the small %
[9:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: I will not debate . If this land is going to have such policy. I pack and go and leave town . Simple as that . Why do we sing Home ? Hypocrisy
[9:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: True…
But if you bring back more harm to your own. What will you do?
No right or wrong answer.. the leaders have to decide
[9:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: We can just complaint all we want
[9:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no point to argue on this
[9:03 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: end of the day if the top guy say ok we follow what other countries are doing cos is the safest way
[9:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: what can we do
[9:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: If your carreer advancement and exposure? How can Singaporean manage a MNC if our outlook is only Singapore
[9:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: Don’t complain of FT taking our job
[9:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If govt wants to bring back our own Singaporeans, i remember last year they also have separate case to bring them back with separate arrangements. But in general the travel ban is still there last year.
[9:04 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: riots / protest? no they will have a window to bring those eligible back first am sure citizens will be the first ... no doubts
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Yup… you took up the reward… so comes the risk as well..
This Covid is since 2019 a lot of time for one person to decide to change job or move
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: now the battle ground is not oversea is here in home land
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: But what I mean is the reaction time of 1 mth is too wide when damage has creeped in
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: Yes, they brought back all who wanted to come back
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: pick the battle ground and work on it hahahaha
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: It’s Global. Our neighbours not safe , we won’t
[9:05 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: talk till dragon and phoenix .. but you forget the lion dance here on home ground
[9:06 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If u see india timeline when they had a sudden increase frm 10k cases to 20k cases, that happened on 10 Mar since then. But our 1st measure of border tightening on happened on 22 Apr.
[9:06 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: further more to strengthen our ground ya
[9:06 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: we did well for so long
[9:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If the border tightening was done in Mar e.g. 17 mar, we could have avoided the cluster.
[9:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Popular temples change plans for Vesak day following surge in Covid-19 community cases
Two popular temples have made adjustments to their plans for Vesak Day on May 26, following a surge in Covid-19 cases in the community over the past week.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/popular-temples-change-plans-for-vesak-day-following-surge-in-covid-19-community-cases
[9:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Just 1 relax can cause a turmoil.
[9:07 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: If you read , India suppress information and statistics. The current reported can be 5 to 10 times more
[9:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is always the case ya Elena anywhere in the society .. so sad .. people just dun see the critical level of stuff
[9:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Economic progress more important hence the delay
[9:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: That is suppressed and hidden info. I am referring to stats that is alr in public.
[9:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Yes expert estimate more than that π
[9:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: In feb, their avg cases is less than 10k.
[9:08 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Then come 3rd week of feb, it starts climbing to 10k cases.
[9:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +Boon: Agreed
[9:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no point looking and say if .. now is look forward and think what to do 2 steps ahead of now ya
[9:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +Thomas: True. We cannot block forever and open cautiously. I felt a betrayal if my country blocked me from coming home due to infection high like Aussie
[9:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: When it hits 10k cases, we should alr keep it in tab and be ready to react if it hits 20k
[9:09 pm, 04/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: let's feed ideas to reach and let them go pick out and match
[9:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +Boon: Yup
[9:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: So when 10 mar comes and we monitor for 7 days and it keeps increasing, we shd have 1st cut measure latest by 24 mar.
[9:10 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: But our 1st cut measure comes in only on 22 apr.
[9:11 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: We are not monitoring the trend
[9:11 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: And hence the reaction is late.
[9:11 pm, 04/05/2021] +Boon: Sg’s policy of trade-off?
[9:12 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: If the 1st cut measure e.g. quarantine increased to 21 days, short term visitors, social pass visitors, dependant visitors are cut off at 1st cut, we can minimise the risk of release to community.
[9:13 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: The trade off I am sure they are aware of it.
If my family is outside I will want them home. But similar I wouldn’t want cause they are overseas I bring them back cause more trouble here.
Till we are sure we can bring them back safely, with the best control and treatment we can offer them. Then we open.
[9:13 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: And if 1st cut measure comes in mar instead of apr when the cluster has creeped in, i think we may be better contained.
[9:14 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: We depend on foreign worker a lot really no choice…
1/4 or 1/2 of our pay to do manual labour who want to do?
[9:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: this anyone who says otherwise is a traitor
[9:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: That is why i am hands up when gov says they are looking into relaxing workers from other countries currently with better control of covid 19. Now this is trend analysis... and govt shd continue monitor by different countries and adjust where necessary.
[9:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: hence i think we did very well
[9:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: don't forget we have a new team now
[9:15 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: they're taking quick action as situation shifts and changes
[9:16 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: talk is cheap
[9:17 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: unless we are in the Ministers shoes or civil servants before we won't know the struggles they go through to decide on policies and actions
[9:21 pm, 04/05/2021] +Boon: Haha. True but it’s not the dependency that is the trade off here. It’s the timing of our actions this round that is the trade off. One of our chat participant has shared a well expressed view of what Sg could have done earlier...
[9:22 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Their low pay contribute to our high pay π … no choice lottery born in Singapore
[9:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I believe deciding on policies are not easy and there are many factors to consider. But virus doesn't wait for policy. They creep in whenever they have the opportunity and they mutate faster than vaccines can really handle them. If the reaction time is not quick enough, then our battle against covid will be tougher.
[9:26 pm, 04/05/2021] +Boon: π
[9:37 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Virtual graduation for polys, inter-school games suspended among stricter Covid-19 measures for schools
From Saturday (May 8), students will have to follow exam-style seating arrangements in classrooms and all activities conducted in public spaces such as learning journeys will be suspended.
Group sizes in all activities will also be reduced from eight to five people, and the overall capacity for activities such as lectures cannot exceed 50.
More https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/virtual-graduation-for-polys-inter-school-games-suspended-among
[9:38 pm, 04/05/2021] +Suma Pamu: Tuitionsπ€
[9:42 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: It's sad about these new measures but let's respect that a short sharp response could have the effect we need and prevent a runaway spike in infections.
[9:45 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[9:45 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: ππ
[9:45 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: I'm surprised religious ceremonies can proceed with 100 people untested. That seems like a potential for further clusters if we are genuinely worried about community cases.
[9:46 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: So far Ttsh cluster did not cause other cluster
[9:46 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: So still ok for now I guess
[9:46 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Again, it wound be a shame for so many people to accept the restrictions but a small gap in the net causes problems for all of us.
[9:47 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: I'm hoping we are learning lessons and not effectively making the same mistakes.
[9:49 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gdnite Megan
[9:49 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ben: Why can 100 people gather inside a place of worship but everyone else is limited to a maximum of 5, even outside. Or am I misunderstanding?
[9:50 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Are you self contradicting yourself? On one hand saying it's not easy so it takes time, on the other say we can't wait.
[9:51 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: π€π»
[9:52 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: U see coffeeshop
[9:52 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Is a higher risk
[9:52 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Unmask and eating
[9:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Caleb: Coffeeshop no SafeEntry
[9:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: I think eating places indeed more risks
[9:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Elena Woo: It is not contradicting ar. In normal policy making, it can be longer time. But for covid, we need to change the approach becoz virus does not care abt policy
[9:53 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: any place that allows us to open mouth and take off mask is risky
[9:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: like i said talk is cheap behind the keyboard or mobile
[9:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: unless we are on the hot seat
[9:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: we will never no how long it takes
[9:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: *know
[9:54 pm, 04/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: my 2.14 cents
[9:59 pm, 04/05/2021] +Ken: Yup… 4G have one of the toughest time now
[10:00 pm, 04/05/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
========
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