REACH 223 - How community stay vigilant and encourage vaccination (SK)

03 May 2021 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:28 am, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

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[10:31 am, 03/05/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Overall, the number of new Covid-19 cases in the community has increased from 10 cases in the week before to 51 cases in the past week. 

The number of unlinked cases in the community has also increased from 3 cases in the week before to 11 cases in the past week. This includes two reported in dormitories who had completed their dose of vaccinations. 

💬 How can we as a community continue to stay vigilant amidst the rise in community cases, and encourage others to get vaccinated? 

The cluster at Tan Tock Seng Hospital (TTSH), Singapore's first hospital Covid-19 cluster, has grown to 27 cases since a nurse who works in Ward 9D tested positive for the virus on 27 April. MOH said the hospital completed the swabbing of all inpatients in its main wards on Apr 30 and the results are all negative.

All 12,000 staff members will also be tested. About 7,000 employees have been swabbed and priority will be given to swab staff members working in clinical areas over the next few days.

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ttsh-covid-19-cluster-discharged-patients-visitors-positive-14733552

👉 Experts urge compliance as Covid-19 cases grow 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/be-obsessed-with-wearing-masks-properly-experts-urge-compliance-14731868

👉 Hospitals introduce entry restrictions to those who have been to TTSH inpatient wards https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/hospitals-entry-restrictions-tan-tock-seng-visitors-inpatients-14731792

-----

[10:37 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: For Vaccination wise still the same old: ERP.

Encourage, Reward, Promote.

For community to stay vigilant, get SDA to walk around places other than shopping malls. Eg. hawkers, coffee shops, etc their presence usually will "remind" ppl to treat this more seriously.

I think another way to remind us to stay vigilant is sadly to limit the number of pax into shopping or crowded areas. Hate to say this but maybe going back to Phase 2 or 1.5 will be good. It's better than getting another Circuit breaker which none of us wants. My 2.14 cents.

[10:46 am, 03/05/2021] +REACH: DPM Heng joins Muslim residents for virtual breaking of fast, urges them to get vaccinated

For Ms Sabrina Chong Abdullah and her family, Hari Raya Puasa will be a socially-distanced affair, with home-cooked meals, Zoom calls with relatives, and a drive around the heartlands to top off the day.

More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/dpm-heng-joins-muslim-residents-for-virtual-breaking-of-fast-urges-them-to-get

[10:47 am, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: Hospitals introduce entry restrictions to those who have been to TTSH inpatient wards https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/hospitals-entry-restrictions-tan-tock-seng-visitors-inpatients-14731792

Very too late to introduce this policy

[10:52 am, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Agree

[10:52 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevin: Agree

[10:53 am, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Should have been done for all hospital. 😒

[10:54 am, 03/05/2021] +Ken: From the start

[10:54 am, 03/05/2021] +Ken: I bring my kid to hospital, when warded they aren’t very strict of visitors and wearing mask

[10:55 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: put it this way

[10:56 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: front liners should be well protected - maybe for healthcare have different fit out liek what NS do in our chem warefare

[10:56 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: that will give them better protection ..

[10:56 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: in low peak period may be face shield and mask

[10:57 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: peak season face shield + mask + some form of apron where they can take ake off easily and throw (those used by saf cook house i saw before)

[10:57 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: peak or full blown season den back to the dreaded ppe suite

[10:58 am, 03/05/2021] +Leonard Lau: In hospital .. they are already on PPE when I was there already .

[10:58 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and for ICA please dun put non vaccinated ppl at the front borders ...

[10:58 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: they can be reposition for some other job

[10:59 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: cos not only that is a open risk for the staff but those in contact with the perspn, guess this is an oversight by ica at Airport

[10:59 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: ehh no ley i go poly clinic all is face mask niah

[10:59 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: suggest better protect them with a shield also

[11:00 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: gloves no need say is a must for them espically since last year so no worries on that

[11:02 am, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Plans to relax restrictions on migrant workers' movements on hold amid recent dorm Covid-19 cluster 

Plans to relax restrictions on the movements of migrant workers have been put on hold, given the recent dormitory cluster and surge in infections in some of the workers' home countries, Second Minister for Manpower Tan See Leng said on Sunday (May 2).

More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/plans-to-relax-restrictions-on-migrant-workers-movements-put-on-hold-tan-see-leng

[11:02 am, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Yes

[11:02 am, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Plans to relax restrictions on migrant workers' movements on hold amid recent dorm Covid-19 cluster 

Plans to relax restrictions on the movements of migrant workers have been put on hold, given the recent dormitory cluster and surge in infections in some of the workers' home countries, Second Minister for Manpower Tan See Leng said on Sunday (May 2).

More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/plans-to-relax-restrictions-on-migrant-workers-movements-put-on-hold-tan-see-leng

[11:03 am, 03/05/2021] +Ben: 🙏yes!

[11:05 am, 03/05/2021] +Dan: +1

[11:10 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but i think given the last few days number going up

[11:10 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: we need to spread and reinforce mask on penalty is 10k is it or 300 ?

[11:10 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: many people still think is 300 ....

[11:10 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and reinforce what situation only can mask off

[11:11 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: another area small groups of people are back to the kia si mindset to horde stuff again soooo it will be good if we can correct such mindset among friends and relatives is not end of the world nor tusnami hitting us in 4 hours

[11:13 am, 03/05/2021] +Ken: It’s encouraged not compulsory… where got so much manpower to choose

[11:13 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: example walking ... just walking in a park can mask off

[11:13 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no need social distancing

[11:13 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: have to see on grds also the case we had was reported is medical

[11:14 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: if no other reason then there should be other arrangeemnt and risks share to the person that if kenna everything is self paid ...

[11:17 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Just reported one lady on lrt station with mask down just yesterday on OneService. Not sure what sort of enforcement can be done though.

[11:18 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: evil idea and cause mass social disruption (but everyone shoudl be ok given all is used to grab and whatever disurptive services)

[11:18 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: let's reward those who reported ppl who break the mask law hahahaha

[11:20 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. See a few reported news that mass vaccination among the West Countries - successfully curb the covid pandemic - and has arrange mass maskless events - without infection.

[11:20 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: think u post face book better effect

[11:20 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: wait and see ... they are doing this test cos is summer holiday season soon

[11:20 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心:

https://flipboard.com/topic/dancemusic/view-footage-from-liverpool-s-experimental-maskless-club-night/f-53def6950e%2Fdazeddigital.com                                                                                                          

View footage of UK Liverpool experimental, maskless dancing club night - after mass vaccination.

[11:20 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://breaking-news-today.com/health/uk-lets-thousands-dance-maskless-without-distancing-at-nightclub-test-event/                                                                                                                                      Britain and Barcelona testing maskless dancing events of 4500 to 5000 perople - after mass vaccination - to see whether any infections. Barcelona event held one month ago - and demonstrate no infection.

[11:20 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/thousands-hit-liverpool-rave-in-trial-reopening-from-lockdown                                                                                                                                            UK Liverpool to trial mass events with maskless crowd of 3000 to 8000 people - after mass vaccination --- to test vaccine efficacy against infections.

PM Boris want to lift lockdown in June 2021.

[11:21 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: usa had agree to let ppl who vaccinated to go maskless ...

[11:21 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Cannot lah will be doxxing liao

[11:21 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Noted that some events have been held 1 month ago - with no reported infection.

[11:22 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Wonder how come Israel, US, UK, Spain vaccinated don't get infected with such large unmask, no social distancing - why some Singaporeans who are fully vaccinated can get infected?

Any wrong with the quality of our imported vaccines that comes from the same vaccine suppliers?

[11:22 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Does it implies that when more people are vaccinated - then infection will greatly reduced?

2. If not, even when vaccinated ones are put among the unvaccinated that form the majority - then even some fully vaccinated ones will still face the risk of being infected.

3. Will need medical experts to study and confirm the above 2 facts by:-

a. Information from vaccine vendors.

b. Information gathered from Israel, US, UK, Spain that are experimenting with maskless big events for fully vaccinated people.

c. Peer medical experts assessment.

[11:23 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The above study on the vaccines efficacy will determine how Singapore approach and readjust our:-

a. Vaccination strategy

b. Masking

c. Social distancing

d. How we open our economic activities

- as we face some vaccinated people infected - while in other more fully vaccinated Countries did not face infection despite going maskless in big events.

[11:23 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: I agree. As long as wear PPE and well aware of safety and hygiene should be fine. Last time we don’t have vaccine our front liners still in PPE attending to covid patients.

[11:23 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: hahahah yeah lor pdpa hahahaha

[11:24 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Iirc the ICA officer is related to TTSH staff?

[11:24 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: see another idea , if dun discuss and bring up no ideas will come up

[11:24 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Pls correct me if mistaken

[11:24 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If check based on the above prove good vaccines efficacy, then why Singapore fully vaccinated people can still infected?

Then deeper study will be needed:-

1. Need to check if cold supply chain broken.

2. Is preparation of 5 or 6 doses per vial - done incorrectly that lead to reduce efficacy of the vaccines?

3. Is the person performing the injection - not done correctly.

[11:24 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no he got it at work den infected his wife who suay suay works in ttsh

[11:25 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: already mentioned vaccine reduces your chances of tio toto

[11:25 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But I strongly suspect:-

1. When put fully vaccinated people among largely unvaccinated people with infected ones - even some fully vaccinated ones (whereby their immune system have not fully developed) will also get infected.

2. If this finding is proven true - then mass vaccination strategy similar to Israel, US, UK and Spain - to achieve herd immunity will be the best vaccination strategy to defeat the covid pandemic.

[11:25 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: How you know bro? Was this reported by MOH?

[11:25 am, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Might be the other way around you know

[11:25 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: even WHO people also came out and said a few days Vaccine is only one of the means to reduce the chances of getting hit by covid

[11:26 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: think there was a chart draw can go look for it ....

[11:26 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: cos they are a clustered group ...

[11:26 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

3. Only when herd immunity is achieved, even when one is infected among all fully vaccinated people - covid cannot jump hosts - as the fully vaccinated people act as barriers.

4. Unlike if more unvaccinated people around, it will keep jumping hosts until it find one that is more infectious and breach the vaccinated people.

[11:26 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Look like following Israel vaccination strategy model - can lead the world out of the covid pandemic.

(Based on what we see in Israel, US, UK, Spain - big maskless big events).

Note :- not suggesting we copy them by holding big maskless big events.

But follow their mass vaccination to achieve herd immunity.

[11:27 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/ttsh-patient-dies-of-covid-19-edgefield-secondary-school-student-tests-positive-for                                                                                              One TTSH elderly covid patient succumb.

[11:28 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Imagine if this elderly is vaccinated before admission - then the elderly may not die due to covid complications.

[11:29 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Wonder why those elderly above 60 in ttsh are not vaccinated - when vaccination are open to them?

[11:29 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: got complication wan reh ... some folks cannot inject due to medication and preexisting conditions and must go thru check before ok

[11:32 am, 03/05/2021] +An fan: No COVID-19 vaccines are approved by FDA yet. All are experimental so far.

[11:34 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: so back to basic : mask on / avoid crowded places / wash hands .... keep safe

[11:35 am, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: back to social responsibility: mask on outside house / dun panic and horde stuff / put back mask on once done with whatever mouth exercise or activities you need and all live happily ever after

[11:40 am, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Ramping up vaccination to the 45 years old and below - who are out in the workforce maybe the best solution.

2. Because they are out working and interacting. Vaccination will give them better protection.

[0:00 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: 3 FDA approved vaccines

[0:00 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Just to clarify: https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/learn-more-about-covid-19-vaccines-fda

[0:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Be 'obsessed' with wearing masks properly: Experts urge compliance as COVID-19 cases grow

The growing number of COVID-19 clusters in the community are a concern, experts said, as they urged people to take existing safety measures seriously and monitor their health.

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/be-obsessed-with-wearing-masks-properly-experts-urge-compliance-14731868

[0:05 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I agree that with full vaccination, must wear masks properly.

[0:06 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And maintain proper social distancing measure.

[0:07 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is can be observe mask is often not wear properly aka for example at henderson park yesterday groups of cluster can be seen , ppl are not doing any hard breathing walking , all are in leisure mode gossiping walking all mask off, no safe distance all sooo happy, just because one put on an exercise suite can ask off, like that i put on my pt attire also can mask off while leisurely strolling ?

[0:07 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: many grey areas

[0:07 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: thus this needs to be really enforce

[0:07 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: kill a few to teach others a lesson

[0:10 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Lol, this is so true. People wear sports top and remove the mask

[0:11 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Remember, the vaccine is the best defence we have, but it still only reduces symptoms in 95% That reduction saves the person going to hospital, saves our resources, protects children and elderly who cannot be vaccinated. It is not 100% protection though

[0:16 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Noting that Singapore current 2 jabs is at 15%? (Stand to be corrected as per last statistics).

2. Israel, US, UK, Spain (some cities) are 40% to 55%.

3. Comparing Singapore vaccination rate with these Countries who are boldly opening up - we still have a long way to go to achieve 55%.

[0:27 pm, 03/05/2021] +Dan: Its difficult to enforce as strenous exercise varies for different ppl.

[0:28 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: UK is around 30% for 2 doses, which is very good. The risk there is that the focus on 1 dose may leave many waiting months for their second dose. We don't know how effective the second dose is after such a long wait, nor do we know how lk g 1 dose is effective for.

[0:28 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Please do check your stats before posting, it takes just a few seconds to ensure you are sharing validated info.

[0:29 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-more-than-15-million-people-now-fully-vaccinated-as-uk-reports-14-more-deaths-12293245

[0:29 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As per last status, yes.

[0:30 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Then  share the link showing these stats. The UK has completed 15m full vaccinations which is around 27%, not 40%

[0:30 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: It's not good enough just to say "as per" with nothing to back it up with.

[0:31 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Just spend 10 seconds doing a Google search and share the link with the stats you are claiming to be true, and what you base your case on.

[0:32 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: It's really annoying having to check your stats when you don't share the source.

[0:32 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: We are all aware of the dangers of spreading misinformation.

[0:37 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: And you claimed the UK had also 40% full vaccination.

[0:44 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Correct, 1 dose. Not fully vaccinated.

[0:44 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: The risk in the UK is that many people are now not protected.

[0:45 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Singapore did an excellent job following the vaccine manufactures guidelines

[0:45 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: 2nd dose 3-4 weeks later. UK did not do that.

[0:46 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

UK have a weird way of vaccination.

I don't agree with it.

But nevertheless, they are controlling their pandemic well.

[0:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Yes, logically lots of 1st doses will reduce the infection rate in the short term. If this works long term we don't know. I hope it does work of course, but I think it is safer for Singapore to follow the guidelines and ensure full vaccination for everyone. We didn't have to deal with many cases every day so we could afford to take this sensible approach.

[0:50 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I don't agree with UK model.

Singapore is doing it right - but need to ramp up.

Israel, US are doing it right.

[0:51 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Spain only certain cities vaccination are high but not others - but they are same as Israel model

[0:59 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: I know a case in uk feb dose 1 2nd dose in may

[1:01 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1, Noting that we have :-

a. 2 Big Clusters - namely TTSH and Changi Airport ICA

b. 11 unlink cases

2. We mathematically assume that there are 13 clusters.

3. Among these 13 clusters - there are 51 people infected.

a. 27 people are from TTSH

b. 7 are from Changi Airport ICA

c. 17 are from unlink cases --- the 11 unlink clusters.

4. Logical analysis of the active clusters :-

a. Has the ring-fence successfully formed to contain the TTSH cluster?

b. Has the ring-fence successfully contain the Changi Airport ICA cluster?

c. Has all the 11 unlink clusters being ring-fence and no more infection coming from the 11 unlink clusters?

5. Determination of successful ring-fencing will determine whether the clusters are effectively conatained.

Hence contact tracing become extremely important - to identify all close contacts - and test them to ensure they are not infected ---- so that the clusters are properly ring-fence :-

a. Look like TTSH cases are the biggest clusters - and still not fully contain. Thus need to closely monitor and ring-fence it.

This couple of days become very important --- if we successfully ring-fence it with no reported cases from this cluster ---- then we are safe.

b. Changi Airport ICA cluster - seems to be more stable. No more reported cases from this cluster.

c. 11 unlink clusters --- got to monitor closely anymore infected cases from this 11 unlink clusters.

If no more casees --- then we are safe ---- else got to step up contact-tracing and testing.

6. So even at this stage, there is quiet confidence that we can still contain this wave provided :-

a. TTSH cluster ---- does not have runaway infected cases.

b. 11 unlink clusters - does not have more and more unlink cases.

7. Meanwhile everyone needs to do the following :-

a. Wear masks properly

b. Observe social distancing measures religiously

c. Ramp up vaccination ---- especially for those 45 years and below who are now out at work. These group need to be protected quickly to stamp the spread of unlink cases.

[1:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Yes I know many people in the UK who had dose 1 months ago with no date yet for Dose 2, could also see supplies dwindle and have to go through the whole process again. UK had to do this to stem cases, so was right for them to do, but they need a good plan to address risks.

[1:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: 👍

[1:04 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://wereyouthere.safeentry.gov.sg/

[1:05 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Use this link to check whether anyone has close contact with the infected one.

2. If feel unwell, request for test.

3. This will help government to do ring fence quickly and effectively.

[1:39 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. 14 days from the D-Day where TTSH cluster and Changi Airport ICA cluster exploded ---- will be our benchmark --- using "Spike-Cool" model - to determine whether we need to move up restriction measures one notch or maintain our just announce measures.

2. If within 14 days from the D-Day shows that the infection number are contained - from contact tracing and testing ---- this means we have effecively ring-fence and contained the 2 big clusters.

3. Next is to watch from the 11 unlink clusters - whether any infection cases arise from the 11 unlink clusters ---- and again we should give it 14 days monitoring period.

If within this 14 days - the infection number from this 11 unlink clusters are contained --- then we are in a good stead.

4. Lastly, observe anymore unlink cases surface or not. Again let us give it 14 days to see the numbers.

5. From today until 15 May 2021 ---- it will give us a good indication whether this wave of infection is contain.

a. If contain, we continue to maintain the recently announce restriction measures, and may even loosen malls visit --- to help those retail business. But those work-at-home hybrid with work-at-office should still stay - to prevent more interaction at workplace - unless we see a ramp up of vaccination for those 45 years old and below.

b. If the infection number from the 2 big clusters - still go up or more and more unlink cases surface after the 14 days ---- using the "Spike Cool" model will means tightening up the restriction measures (though not back to CB stringent measures - unless the infection number are runaway and cannot be contain or control with certainty).

6. To conclude, the next 14 days will be extremely crucial --- and let us fix it at 15 May 2021 to do a "stock taking" before deciding the next step forward.

[2:06 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

7. Economic costs will have to be work out through the model.

a. The recent tightening measures (looks not too stringent - may affect some mall business, some transport business).

But noting that the JSS job support scheme is ending Jun and some in Sep. 

Unlikely we need to draw on reserves or warrant another budget.

b. But if after 15 May 2021 (assuming government agree) - 14 days - the infection number are still not coming down - and need to tighten restrictions further.

Based on the model, business and jobs will have a bigger impact.....

[2:47 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Updated Trace Together app now shows Vaccination status, possible exposures and Covid Test results. Good update from the Development team!

[2:57 pm, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: 😒

[2:58 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Pse arrange for test to help government to ring fence quickly.

[3:44 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: What is the view on making people have the vaccine as a condition of their job? I'm in 2 minds.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/03/hong-kong-plan-to-force-covid-vaccines-on-foreign-domestic-workers-sparks-alarm?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[3:47 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

HK use the hard approach.

As for now, I think we should continue to use the persuasive but persistent approach.

[3:48 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: And for FDW? Especially since many have child care duties, and kids can't be vaccinated.

[3:48 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: hmm good suggestion fdw needs and shoudl be vaccinated

[3:48 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think should be the same with the rest of the population.

[3:48 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: That's another gap in the system which could leak and be transmitted  to schools.

[3:48 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but who going to shoulder the cost?

[3:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: The cost of transmission far outweighs vaccination.

[3:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: they will be a stop gap from having the drom infected too cos face it , it is a fact most of them interact with dorm workers ok

[3:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Look at last week, that was just 15 people.

[3:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: this is a hard truth question cos many of their empolyers will ask ...

[3:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and make noise

[3:50 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Our government has said, choice is yours but be prepared to fork out costs for every test and treatment above what is subsidised for those who choose to be vaccinated.

[3:50 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: What is the cost of vaccination, and does the employer pay the cost of their staff cause a an outbreak through not being vaccinated?

[3:51 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Seems like qccination cost is cheap insurance to me

[3:51 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Schools, malls closed. People all put on SHN. That cost is enormous.

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: singaporeans dun see that way

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: TT staff etc, an outbreak probably costs millions.

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: really u can try to test the market i assure you more than 70% will scream why govt cannot pay

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: why fdw cannot pay

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Then they have a choice. Pay vaccine or pay penalty if your unvaccinated staff cause outbreak.

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: why MOM cannot sub ..

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: The cost will be tremendous once things under control  but time factor is unpredictable

[3:52 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think until the vaccines has achieved the status like BCG, smallpox etc vaccines - that had been approved by WHO beyond "emergency use" status - safe for used for "compulsory vaccination" - no choice we have to adopt the  persistent persuasive approach.

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: den another voice why forcing us to vaccine our fwd.. hahaha

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: never ending one

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: ask them put mask already can die

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Fair question. Maybe this becomes an acceptable cost to the nation.

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Emergency authorisation of vaccine carries risk not forseen.

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: on the other hand

[3:53 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: govt cannot sub for everything like that we is the social responsibilities of citizen

[3:54 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: this is a national crisis but what i see is more people are asking for help instead of being part of a solution

[3:54 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: I guess it's a choice to have a FDW, so we pay the associated costs, like medical, insurance etc.

[3:55 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: we are not going to survive a disaster if it does hits cos many are like sitting ducks waiting to be fed or to snatch from others ..

[3:55 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Poorer people shouldn't have to subsidise the costs of FDW

[3:55 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Agree. Simple advice  (wear mask/practice social distance) just cannot be accept!

[3:57 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: whatever the decision let the top go sort it out

[3:58 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but i agree FDW have to get vaccinate they are the weakest link why have we not taught of this before

[3:59 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: since the last 5 gathering rule, it open up them to meeting tehir dorm friends again and whenever dorm is hit there is a chance this will traverse to FDW thru social interaction , aka it will bring forth to the family and boom ....

[3:59 pm, 03/05/2021] +REACH: 8 more infections linked to TTSH cluster among 10 new community cases in Singapore 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-imported-community-moh-hospital-ttsh-may-3-14735594

[4:03 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. So look like ttsh cluster is still growing but not yet stabilise.

2. Changi airport ICA cluster - no case - look like stabilising.

3. 11 unlink clusters - no reported cases - good news.

So only ttsh need to monitor - and ring fence quickly.

If we are able to contain this ttsh cluster - then we are in a better stead.

[4:03 pm, 03/05/2021] +Elena Woo: This is another tuas cluster?

[4:03 pm, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Hospitals introduce entry restrictions on those who have been to Tan Tock Seng Hospital's inpatient wards

Hospitals have introduced entry restrictions on those who have been to Tan Tock Seng Hospital's inpatient wards amid concerns about the growing COVID-19 cluster linked to the TTSH hospital.

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/hospitals-entry-restrictions-tan-tock-seng-visitors-inpatients-14731792

[4:04 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Tuas cluster - is one of the 11 unlink clusters.

[4:58 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: Think need to drive on personal hygiene and hand washing.

[5:00 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: https://str.sg/Jt5U

I hope MOH will test them after 14 days. 

To cast the net wide

[5:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: And don't make this as a loophole for the virus

[5:06 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Yes

[5:06 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As it stands now, Changi airport ICA cluster - seems to be stabilized and well contain.

But like as suggested, should test again 14 days later to confirm.

Then can close this cluster and concentrate on the ttsh cluster and the 11 unlink clusters.

Quietly confident that we can still defeat this 2nd wave - as long as we have a systematic process to tackle it.

[5:11 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: "MOT 'prepared to make adjustments' to Singapore-HK air travel bubble, Government & Economy - THE BUSINESS TIMES" https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/government-economy/mot-prepared-to-make-adjustments-to-singapore-hk-air-travel-bubble

[5:12 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Ripples from India's Covid-19 surge: The struggle to cope with fewer foreign workers in Singapore https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ripples-from-india-the-struggle-to-cope-with-fewer-foreign-workers-in-singapore?&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

[5:23 pm, 03/05/2021] +Elena Woo: I think the cluster has already leaked within community... coz they would have taken public transport etc.

[5:24 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: 🤦‍♀️😱😨😟😞😔

[5:27 pm, 03/05/2021] +Valli: The unlinked cases should be related to them. 

What mutant strain this virus, is still not revealed.

[5:27 pm, 03/05/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya.. worrying.

[5:31 pm, 03/05/2021] +Stan: I have a strange feeling that we might be heading for a one week lockdown if these new clusters continue to keep popping up. Some companies are already announcing a 14 day work from home.

[5:31 pm, 03/05/2021] +YT: One week is not enough. Minimum 3 weeks.

[5:32 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rosemary: I'm curious if all these who are affected by C-19 are vaccinated?  Anyone has this information?

[5:33 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Hopefully, MOH can enlighten

[5:34 pm, 03/05/2021] +Stan: Yeah and whether those who are vaccinated and catch it, do they become sick or did they just become carriers?

[5:36 pm, 03/05/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes knowing what strain is it is very important...

If double mutant 

It might be highly contagious also the current vaccine efficiency for this new one is not known yet

[5:36 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

[5:36 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Interesting that you might test positive after being vaccinated even if you don't have covid.

[5:37 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Mine back to once a week

[5:37 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Correction, I mean test positive on an Antibody test

[5:38 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: You do not test positive on a viral test after being vaccinated

[5:38 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Depends on what test you are doing…

[5:38 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: Correct

[5:41 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: If viral fragment is used for vaccination (example inactived virus) there is chance that will turn positive. If somehow the fragment comes out with your sample during sampling. If you still holding the virus.

For those that uses the vaccine example Pfizer one, unlikely to be tested positive as they are only small fragments of the virus. Which most PCR will be avoiding as they already know that was used for vaccine. There are so many fragment within the virus can use many others to confirm.

[5:46 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: I understand no vaccine actaully gives you the virus

[5:46 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: If based on antibodies is very hard to determine. Antibody is based on specific protein. But also need to depends on the antibodies are made monoclonal or polyclonal antibodies.

Monoclonal is specific but if the virus don’t hold the site which it is produced based on it will not detect. Hard to make and take time to scale up.

Polyclonal antibodies is based on full immune respond so each cell create a slight variation of antibodies.. hence detection rate is higher but there is chance of false positive. As it will also bind to vaccines protein. Easy to make, but may have false positive

[5:47 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac

That is sinovac version.. Similar to small pox that use this version

[5:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Not live ones but inactivated ones

[5:49 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ben: I see, yes this is not so popular it looks like

[5:50 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Actually depends on how you think… cause specific Pfizer ones are only one protein or many specific ones.. if the virus mutate that point. Your vaccine is useless

[5:51 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Inactivated ones you have chance to developed resistance to wider range… but also depends on your body how it respond to it. Hence it has lower effectiveness from person to person.

All system have pros and cons

[5:52 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Hence if given a choice I actually don’t mind taking Sinovac lol… or any other similar tech form.

[5:56 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: https://tdy.sg/3ufL1VI

Looks like we are not prepare for this

[5:58 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Totally unexpected

[5:59 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: It was also near impossible to ask people in the queues to keep a 1m safe-distancing gap between each other, as many bunched up in the shade provided by trees

Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/covid-19-long-queues-waits-5-hours-public-testing-starts-possible-exposures-ttsh-cases?cid=telegram_tg-single_social-free_26012019_today

[6:00 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: Another cluster may come.

Walk-in but wait for covid test cluster

[6:00 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: So, having SDA around would not have made a difference?

[6:00 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: It will become a riot

[6:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Yes

[6:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: Need the head dress with red color  then got use

[6:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Wah so many people.. really positive…

[6:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Ken: Possible I mean

[6:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Yes

[6:02 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: We have testing capabilities, but don't have the means to do mass test

[6:03 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: @+REACH We need to ramp up the capability to do mass testing

[6:04 pm, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Some safe opening of air travel possible if governments open up to countries with low Covid-19 infection rates: Ong Ye Kung

Some safe opening of air travel in 2021 is possible if governments open up cautiously with regions that have a low number of domestic Covid-19 cases, said Transport Minister Ong Ye Kung.

More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/some-safe-opening-of-air-travel-possible-if-governments-open-up-to-countries

[6:07 pm, 03/05/2021] +Suma pamu: :(

Should have Done on Booking Basis.

I hope this is not a biggest mistake🙏🏽

If one person there having it, 

If double mutant virus (which rumoured to be airborne..)

Can not imgine what happens

I hope they fix the issue ASAP

and make Pre booking arrangements

🤞🏽🤞🏽

[6:12 pm, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Swab test cluster lol

[6:13 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: Will gov fine MOH?

[6:13 pm, 03/05/2021] +Caleb: Can't handle long Q

[6:14 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Hope so

[6:15 pm, 03/05/2021] +Stan: Meet the people session are already suspended.

[6:16 pm, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Dun lah left pocket right pocket

[6:17 pm, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Same time and energy resolve and improve better

[6:17 pm, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: *Save

[6:24 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: thats a good move to start working from home

[6:24 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: if we do not reduce humans movement foot prints the rate are going to be worst

[6:24 pm, 03/05/2021] +Kevinn Wang: all efforts for past 1 yr gone

[6:27 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Yup

[6:31 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. If we analysed the current infection wave logically, we may have come out with some findings :-

a. Changi Airport ICA cluster

- the infected ICA officer cannot be vaccinated - because of his multiple allergies to drug.

- he infected all his 6 family members over dining --- all presumably did not wear masks - and all not vaccinated.

- But he did not infect his 130 ICA officers colleagues - presumably most are vaccinated and all wear masks.

- Hence, Changi Airport ICA cluster - stabilised and well contain.

2. TTSH cluster

- TTSH general wards are open wards - where patients, visitors and medical staff can go in and out freely.

- Presumably, all patients are not masks.

- Looking at those patients infected, many elderly, they are not vaccinated.

- So I believe if one patients without mask is infected - his/her virus load must be huge.

- When medical staff - such as doctors and nurse inspect these patients with high virus load - it must be highly contagious - as general wards - I believe don't wear full PPE like gloves, or full PPE suit. Also in general wards, medical staff may not wear N95 masks - could be surgical masks which are less protective than N95 masks.

- Visitors who wear normal reusable masks - not N95 masks -- will have lesser protection than medical staff. So when touch high virus load patients' belongings --- may get infected. 

- Also noted that visitors who got infected are mainly not vaccinated.

3. 11 unlink clusters

- Some clusters could be due to dorm - eg. some are long-term virus shredder --- don't know whether this is actual re-infection or not ----- news did not further report on this.

- Some clusters are due to real infection in dorm.

- Some unlink clusters could be due to TTSH infected - and people run around.

- And these unlink clusters are mainly not vaccinated.

- Re-infected ones are not vaccinated.

Hence, this logical analysis could explain why TTSH is the biggest spreader.

Also noted that, vaccination indeed can control the spread better as can be seen in Changi Airport ICA cluster.

[6:33 pm, 03/05/2021] +65 9127 4138: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-hong-kong-domestic-workers-compulsory-vaccination-14725574

[6:34 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Nothing wrong

[6:34 pm, 03/05/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Channel 8 news report long queues in test center.

This is good as this will help government to quickly ring-fence the ttsh cluster and unlink clusters.

[6:35 pm, 03/05/2021] +Rama: Unknowingly helping

[6:45 pm, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:46 pm, 03/05/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gdnite Megan!

[7:01 pm, 03/05/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

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