Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ahtc-trial-cpg-run-town-council-without-computer-system-10821810
By Lydia Lam
(Updated: )
Ricky Lim
The GRC scheme came into effect on 1 June 1988.
IT firm Action Information Management (AIM) had withdrawn its Town Council Management System (TCMS) from AHTC in 2011. It had bought the software belonging to the People's Action Party (PAP) town councils in 2010, in an open tender.
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That means between 1988 to 2010 - PAP GRC town council have been operating without the accounting software.
Why does the Defense insist that without accounting software, Aljunied GRC town council cannot run?
For the past 22 years, PAP GRC town council have been operating without accounting software with no problem.
Why the Defense are harping on no accounting software cannot run?
IT firm Action Information Management (AIM) had withdrawn its Town Council Management System (TCMS) from AHTC in 2011. It had bought the software belonging to the People's Action Party (PAP) town councils in 2010, in an open tender.
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That means between 1988 to 2010 - PAP GRC town council have been operating without the accounting software.
Why does the Defense insist that without accounting software, Aljunied GRC town council cannot run?
For the past 22 years, PAP GRC town council have been operating without accounting software with no problem.
Why the Defense are harping on no accounting software cannot run?
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Mr Goh had contended that CPG had a contractual obligation to continue with the town council "whether there was a computer system or not”, and added that the lack of a computer system was "CPG's problem to handle".
Pointing out that CPG had no contractual obligation to provide the computer system, Mr Rajah contended that CPG could not have run the town council without this financial and accounting software even if they had been kept on by AHTC.
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People are still using spreadsheet at that time to maintain the accounts without any problem.
Microsoft develop its Excel spreadsheet only in 1987. There is no such thing as accounting software then.
Defense statement is not defensible.
It is just plain lame excuses.
Pointing out that CPG had no contractual obligation to provide the computer system, Mr Rajah contended that CPG could not have run the town council without this financial and accounting software even if they had been kept on by AHTC.
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People are still using spreadsheet at that time to maintain the accounts without any problem.
Microsoft develop its Excel spreadsheet only in 1987. There is no such thing as accounting software then.
Defense statement is not defensible.
It is just plain lame excuses.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Good accounting practices is based on :-
(1) Due diligence in puting right entries at the right place, with right classification
(2) Good document control
(3) Good audit trail for checking and verification
(4) Good segregation and duties with no conflict of interest
(5) Ensure all receipts and payments are properly authorised, verified and checked
(6) Good internal control
etc.
Whether an organisation use accounting software is immaterial - though is a bonus.
If an organisation don't have the above - even with good accounting software don't help - because it will be "garbage in, garbage out".
One can enter account payable as expenses,
investment as expenditure, make payment without checking for invoices etc --- will also result in poor accounting practices.
(1) Due diligence in puting right entries at the right place, with right classification
(2) Good document control
(3) Good audit trail for checking and verification
(4) Good segregation and duties with no conflict of interest
(5) Ensure all receipts and payments are properly authorised, verified and checked
(6) Good internal control
etc.
Whether an organisation use accounting software is immaterial - though is a bonus.
If an organisation don't have the above - even with good accounting software don't help - because it will be "garbage in, garbage out".
One can enter account payable as expenses,
investment as expenditure, make payment without checking for invoices etc --- will also result in poor accounting practices.
Like · Reply · 1m
Hwa Tan
Before computer age everyone is using hand written format for accounting etc then come computer.dont tell there difference between hand written n typing aa auto driving to manual.
Kwai Meng Tang
There is a simple reason why the computer system is taken away the PAP after losing the election wanted to make sure AHTC fail. The PAP did not bother to take into consideration that they hurt not only AHTC but those Singapore citizens that voted against them. All this done out of spiteful and revenge. Which PAP officer does to claim they have a big heart you tell me.
Ricky Lim
The software belong to AIM, a company who own the right to the software - not PAP.
AIM withdraw the software not PAP.
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IT firm Action Information Management (AIM) had withdrawn its Town Council Management System (TCMS) from AHTC in 2011.
AIM withdraw the software not PAP.
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IT firm Action Information Management (AIM) had withdrawn its Town Council Management System (TCMS) from AHTC in 2011.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Just like in Punggol East - WP is not going to give FMSS software to PAP after PAP MP won the Punggol East.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Weng Cheng Ye - Just like any commercial competitors - they will not give away their copyright or intellectual property right to their competitors to come back and beat them.
In politics and in commercial world - everyone must know that.
If a party want to win in politics, or if a business want to win projects in commercial world - one must have the mettle to take over and run it --- and not blame the competitors ---- this is the moral of the story that i have been trying very hard to convey.
MPs is the highest office - commercial world know this "competitive rules" and can come up top --- I am very disappointed that the Opposition Party cannot prove to Singaporeans that they can do better than their incumbent - to even form a new Government - only know how to blame their failure on the Ruling Party.
This show that the Opposition Party - does not have the quality to hold the highest office and form the next Government.
By blaming the competitors for one's failure - is like telling to the World - one cannot make it - and one foul up because competitors don't help him.
In fact, why WP foul up in managing this GRC?
(1) WP is expecting PAP to help him - in which obviously PAP will not.
(2) FMSS - WP's commercial partner - screw up WP big time.
--- that is why WP are now in this deep shit.
In politics and in commercial world - everyone must know that.
If a party want to win in politics, or if a business want to win projects in commercial world - one must have the mettle to take over and run it --- and not blame the competitors ---- this is the moral of the story that i have been trying very hard to convey.
MPs is the highest office - commercial world know this "competitive rules" and can come up top --- I am very disappointed that the Opposition Party cannot prove to Singaporeans that they can do better than their incumbent - to even form a new Government - only know how to blame their failure on the Ruling Party.
This show that the Opposition Party - does not have the quality to hold the highest office and form the next Government.
By blaming the competitors for one's failure - is like telling to the World - one cannot make it - and one foul up because competitors don't help him.
In fact, why WP foul up in managing this GRC?
(1) WP is expecting PAP to help him - in which obviously PAP will not.
(2) FMSS - WP's commercial partner - screw up WP big time.
--- that is why WP are now in this deep shit.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Weng Cheng Ye - Also PAP GRC town council have been running many GRCs for 22 years without AIM's accounting software - without any problem.
Wonder why WP insist must have accounting software - else cannot run the GRC?
Don't understand the logic.
It is the right accounting practices and how one manage the GRC - that ensure success.
By having accounting software - don't ensure WP's success - because if their accounting practices are wrong - accounting software will not help them - "because garbage in garbage out".
Also many enterprises and project team of $100 million size - also do not have accounting software - they only use Microsoft spreadsheet or Open source spreadsheet to run --- and yet can passed audit year after year.
Aljunied GRC town council fail audit year after year.
Wonder why WP insist must have accounting software - else cannot run the GRC?
Don't understand the logic.
It is the right accounting practices and how one manage the GRC - that ensure success.
By having accounting software - don't ensure WP's success - because if their accounting practices are wrong - accounting software will not help them - "because garbage in garbage out".
Also many enterprises and project team of $100 million size - also do not have accounting software - they only use Microsoft spreadsheet or Open source spreadsheet to run --- and yet can passed audit year after year.
Aljunied GRC town council fail audit year after year.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Weng Cheng Ye
Ricky Lim
You write many many but no see you enlighten us who owns AIM.
Also me no go school help me define what is a software and how $100million do accounting.
Please educate illiterates like me.
You write many many but no see you enlighten us who owns AIM.
Also me no go school help me define what is a software and how $100million do accounting.
Please educate illiterates like me.
Ricky Lim
Weng Cheng Ye - Who own AIMs i don't know and also not important to me.
As for how to handle accounts - whether $1 million or $100 million - you will need to employ an accountant with degree in accounting or ACCA - they will handle it the same way.
BTW, accounting course did not insist or teach - corporate must use accounting software to do their accounts in order to pass their audit. They teach accounting practices. (Unless recently ACCA or Accounting degree change their course content - and teach accounting practices insisting the use of accounting software?)
That is all I will stop here. I don't want to keep repeating like a broken record.
Read all the posts again - WP is just finding excuses - don't blame on the accounting software. No need software also can do and I say again PAP have no software for 22 years and has handle more GRCs without any problem passing all audit.
As for how to handle accounts - whether $1 million or $100 million - you will need to employ an accountant with degree in accounting or ACCA - they will handle it the same way.
BTW, accounting course did not insist or teach - corporate must use accounting software to do their accounts in order to pass their audit. They teach accounting practices. (Unless recently ACCA or Accounting degree change their course content - and teach accounting practices insisting the use of accounting software?)
That is all I will stop here. I don't want to keep repeating like a broken record.
Read all the posts again - WP is just finding excuses - don't blame on the accounting software. No need software also can do and I say again PAP have no software for 22 years and has handle more GRCs without any problem passing all audit.
Like · Reply · 1m
Weng Cheng Ye
Ricky Lim
Who owns AIM may not be important to you, but you are trying to sell your superb analysis for the purpose best known to yourself and made claims that you are a neutralist and a notch higher in your yearn to right injustice by conveniently leaving out important details to try creating confusion like a broken record (permit me to borrow your term) singing the same lyrics of PPPLP, PPPLP, PPPLP... you probably learned your marching in the rythm of kanan kiri kanan, kanan kiri kanan..
Who owns AIM may not be important to you, but you are trying to sell your superb analysis for the purpose best known to yourself and made claims that you are a neutralist and a notch higher in your yearn to right injustice by conveniently leaving out important details to try creating confusion like a broken record (permit me to borrow your term) singing the same lyrics of PPPLP, PPPLP, PPPLP... you probably learned your marching in the rythm of kanan kiri kanan, kanan kiri kanan..
Kwai Meng Tang
Remember the Worker s Party won the election fair and square. They did robbed or cheated in that election.
Like · Reply · 12m
Yeok Fong Yong
WP leader Low Thia Khiang boasted to the residents of Hougang n Aljunied to believe them can run the Aljunied GRC because he has 20 years experience. So the residents believed him. Now, when things go awry, they start to blame this and that. Come on, just say you have failed and asked for forgiveness lah.
Like · Reply · 3h
Yeok Fong Yong
Weng Cheng Ye Let's not use software as an excuse. Capable and Resourceful opposition can overcome obstacles and problems. Like the old saying "a bad craftman blames his tools". I have great respect to the Opposition IN MALAYSIA. Despite the Najib's govt hammering, intimidation, even jailing of many, the Opposition fights on and finally won the battle over the Evil regime. This should be how Singapore Opposition inspired to be an honest, capable, righteous group of people. The present Opposition does not measured up because they fouled up even in running the TC, how to gain respect! I think the most damning statement is from Judge Quentin Loh’s statement "if AHPETC was managing corporation subject to the Building Maintenance & Strata Management Act it will be exposed to criminal liability"!!!
Reply · 4h
Ricky Lim
How to effectively take over the Aljunied GRC and run without any problem :=
1. Use a Robust methodology to handover and takeover FM services
2. Build a checklist
3. Take a snapshot of current status, account balance
4. Build a list of outstanding items or issues
5. Take over all inventories, account balances based on the methodology and checklist
6. Reconstruct the account balance, bank balances, creditors, debtors, inventories list, investment instruments, outstanding issues, contractor list based on the various specialised services such as lift maintenance, cleaners, pest management, estate management etc to reflect the current status
7. Take over and run
8. Archive all completed transactions or historical records - and keep for 7 years according to statutory accounting requirements.
Is taking over AIM computer system critical to the sucess of running the GRC town council - not necessary, why :-
(1) If take over AIM accounting software - new GRC town council need to be trained on how to use the software - if not it is as good as not having it. Do you want your competitiors to hand hold you and teach you how to use their software? Or do WP want PAP to babysit WP how to run a GRC - so that this is call "no injustice"?
(2) The new GRC town council management can use its own system or software - and if don't have or not suitable - use improvised tools to reconstruct the current status and standing of the GRC it has taken over such as using Microsoft Excel or OpenOffice spreadsheet supplemented by hardcopy documetation. And then run the GRC.
(3) Then slowly source for new accounting software or ramp up any accounting software the new town council management have while using the improvised system to run.
So is it so difficult to takeover the GRC town council and pass audit without AIM software (and so call injustice - if AIM fail to give the accounting software) - no big deal if no accounting software - in fact it will be a burden if not train how to use it.
The WP woes is not AIM not giving it software and thus cannot run properly.
It is because WP does not have a robust methodology to guide them and using a comprehensive checklist - in the takeover and handover process - that have cause the WP current woes.
In other words, WP is inexperienced and WP competency is a big issue in runnig the GRC.
Many commercial project teams and companies - have been winning competition and taking over projects of similar size of $100 million or bigger - many times over without major problem.
WP make such a huge ruckus over only 1 project of $100 million - and yet people still cry foul, injustice ---- while people in the commmerical world are just laughing it off.
会游就说会游。
不会游不要说游泳裤太大不能穿，所以不能游。
The outcome is very simple - if WP mishandled the GRC account and over paid $33 million - the outcome is to recover it back and put it back into sinking fund.
1. Use a Robust methodology to handover and takeover FM services
2. Build a checklist
3. Take a snapshot of current status, account balance
4. Build a list of outstanding items or issues
5. Take over all inventories, account balances based on the methodology and checklist
6. Reconstruct the account balance, bank balances, creditors, debtors, inventories list, investment instruments, outstanding issues, contractor list based on the various specialised services such as lift maintenance, cleaners, pest management, estate management etc to reflect the current status
7. Take over and run
8. Archive all completed transactions or historical records - and keep for 7 years according to statutory accounting requirements.
Is taking over AIM computer system critical to the sucess of running the GRC town council - not necessary, why :-
(1) If take over AIM accounting software - new GRC town council need to be trained on how to use the software - if not it is as good as not having it. Do you want your competitiors to hand hold you and teach you how to use their software? Or do WP want PAP to babysit WP how to run a GRC - so that this is call "no injustice"?
(2) The new GRC town council management can use its own system or software - and if don't have or not suitable - use improvised tools to reconstruct the current status and standing of the GRC it has taken over such as using Microsoft Excel or OpenOffice spreadsheet supplemented by hardcopy documetation. And then run the GRC.
(3) Then slowly source for new accounting software or ramp up any accounting software the new town council management have while using the improvised system to run.
So is it so difficult to takeover the GRC town council and pass audit without AIM software (and so call injustice - if AIM fail to give the accounting software) - no big deal if no accounting software - in fact it will be a burden if not train how to use it.
The WP woes is not AIM not giving it software and thus cannot run properly.
It is because WP does not have a robust methodology to guide them and using a comprehensive checklist - in the takeover and handover process - that have cause the WP current woes.
In other words, WP is inexperienced and WP competency is a big issue in runnig the GRC.
Many commercial project teams and companies - have been winning competition and taking over projects of similar size of $100 million or bigger - many times over without major problem.
WP make such a huge ruckus over only 1 project of $100 million - and yet people still cry foul, injustice ---- while people in the commmerical world are just laughing it off.
会游就说会游。
不会游不要说游泳裤太大不能穿，所以不能游。
The outcome is very simple - if WP mishandled the GRC account and over paid $33 million - the outcome is to recover it back and put it back into sinking fund.
Like · Reply · 1m
Wan Wan
Town council is a set-trap Scheme by the ruling party for any winning opposition party, be it WP or SDP. The trap is like a quicksand pit, once fallen into it, it will take donkey years to get out and during the years inside it, the intended victim is made to spend its entire life inside the bottomless pit struggling and finding ways and means to survive, let alone HAVE TIME to take care of its residents and voters who had voted for them into Parliament. Had all functions of all the Town Councils of PAP and WP werr STILL under the management and jurisdiction of the HDB(like the good days)no such problems of misused of POWER oops misused of finance funds would arise! Period!
Ricky Lim
That means WP and SDP is not the political quality that Singapore want.
They can't even manage a town council and the estate where their voters vote for them to take care of their well-beings in the estate - how do Singaporeans expect them to take over the Government?
Then they should not contest in a GRC - if they feel they can't make it.
Politics are very serious business - not a ground for "trial and error" - and definitely not for those who are trying their luck.
(1) It is about ability to Govern.
(2) It deal with people's livelihood.
(3) It must demonstrate the ability to run a Government, handle funds, manage an Economy, manage security, healthcare, education etc.
If can't even manage a town council - then why contest in a GRC - and then try tikam tikam, blame this, blame that except themselves?
Unless they are very sure they can do a good job out of it - they can bid for it - if not don't bid as a responsible politicians.
In this case, Aljunied GRC residents lost $33 million from the sinking fund.
They can't even manage a town council and the estate where their voters vote for them to take care of their well-beings in the estate - how do Singaporeans expect them to take over the Government?
Then they should not contest in a GRC - if they feel they can't make it.
Politics are very serious business - not a ground for "trial and error" - and definitely not for those who are trying their luck.
(1) It is about ability to Govern.
(2) It deal with people's livelihood.
(3) It must demonstrate the ability to run a Government, handle funds, manage an Economy, manage security, healthcare, education etc.
If can't even manage a town council - then why contest in a GRC - and then try tikam tikam, blame this, blame that except themselves?
Unless they are very sure they can do a good job out of it - they can bid for it - if not don't bid as a responsible politicians.
In this case, Aljunied GRC residents lost $33 million from the sinking fund.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
If you suggest that WP and SDP should not run a TC - in order to mask their inability to run a TC.
Are you suggesting that Singaporeans should blindfold themselves about opposition inability to govern - whereby running a Government will be 700 times larger in size in terms of money to be managed and alot more complex and sophisticated in terms of organisation structure with so many Ministries, Statutory Boards, Organs of States?
Your suggestion is like - let us not test the Opposition.
- let us fool the Singaporeans voters.
- let us pull a wool over the Singaporean voters about Opposition organisational skills and the governance abilities.
- let us have some oppositions in Parliament for the sake of opposition in the Highest Office - irregardless of their abilities.
Is that what you are suggesting?
Are you suggesting that Singaporeans should blindfold themselves about opposition inability to govern - whereby running a Government will be 700 times larger in size in terms of money to be managed and alot more complex and sophisticated in terms of organisation structure with so many Ministries, Statutory Boards, Organs of States?
Your suggestion is like - let us not test the Opposition.
- let us fool the Singaporeans voters.
- let us pull a wool over the Singaporean voters about Opposition organisational skills and the governance abilities.
- let us have some oppositions in Parliament for the sake of opposition in the Highest Office - irregardless of their abilities.
Is that what you are suggesting?
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
This will be the surest way to sink Singapore into oblivion.
Anyone who aspire to be in Highest Office in Parliament - must demonstrate and tested on the capabilities and abilities to run a Government.
If oppositions are scared to run a GRC town council - that will expose their inadequacies --- then don't contest in a GRC for the sake of Singaporeans.
Anyone who aspire to be in Highest Office in Parliament - must demonstrate and tested on the capabilities and abilities to run a Government.
If oppositions are scared to run a GRC town council - that will expose their inadequacies --- then don't contest in a GRC for the sake of Singaporeans.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
WP is not ask to crack their brain to bring in money like any other business to fund the estate maintenance.
(1) PAP handover a healthy surplus of Aljunied GRC funds to WP.
(2) By law, all residents are required to provide town council fees monthly to WP.
(3) Yearly, Government grants are given to WP.
WP only need to ensure :-
(1) maintain the fund correctly and responsibly
(2) source for contractors for servicing the estate at the best prices
(3) dispense funds responsibly without overpayment
(4) maintain the accounts properly
Even so simple things like that WP cannot do a proper job and overpaid $33 million - and you say they need HDB to run on their behalf.
Then how to entrust more responsibilities to opposition such as running a Government even a simple thing like running a town council - can also overpaid by so much - and still need HDB to handle on their behalf?
If the whole Country handle by opposition - then isn't the whole County going to collapse?
(1) PAP handover a healthy surplus of Aljunied GRC funds to WP.
(2) By law, all residents are required to provide town council fees monthly to WP.
(3) Yearly, Government grants are given to WP.
WP only need to ensure :-
(1) maintain the fund correctly and responsibly
(2) source for contractors for servicing the estate at the best prices
(3) dispense funds responsibly without overpayment
(4) maintain the accounts properly
Even so simple things like that WP cannot do a proper job and overpaid $33 million - and you say they need HDB to run on their behalf.
Then how to entrust more responsibilities to opposition such as running a Government even a simple thing like running a town council - can also overpaid by so much - and still need HDB to handle on their behalf?
If the whole Country handle by opposition - then isn't the whole County going to collapse?
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