Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ahtc-trial-defence-explains-more-than-s-194-000-in-payments-10808074
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Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ahtc-trial-defence-explains-more-than-s-194-000-in-payments-10808074
Sharon Lim
Owen Hawkes, what planet are you on? Call centres actually log real time notes so when a complaint is resolved and closed, that’s certification that the issue has been addressed. Are you expecting a 10 page certification confirmation for every complaint , how about a big ceremony to prove certification as well......get real....
Weng Cheng Ye
His school of thoughts did/do not have this written in their books, as such he would not understand. So anything that is not familiar with the books he read shall be classified as "Improper" for the convenience of auditing (maybe). Permit me to guess that his defence to the Judge would probably be like "Your Honour! This was not in the books I read, blame my school of thoughts for not being up to date with time, as such don't look at me like a shit for brain".
Ricky Lim
Sharon Lim - to be honest - call logs recorded as open and close by call centres are normally not accepted as services completed according to audit standards - because call agents can wrongly record as close when it was not.
For service completion certification - normally need :-
eg.
(1) to be signed off on the maintenance form by the party that "own" or "managed" the facilities that service indeed was rendered and restore into proper working order.
(2) keeping a photo or "video" that the facilities indeed that have been rendered.
The above are the proper audit trail accepted by the audit - as service rendered and completed - as it is "signed off" by the recipients of the services - only then payment can be made.
Else the call agents either incorrectly record the call as complete when it was not, or to meet the call closure target - deliberately close it when the service level is breached - and open a new one to meet service standards. But town council based on call logs make payment even though service is not completed --- then there will be alot of double payment.
This is a major internal control weaknesses that will lead to "improper payment".
For service completion certification - normally need :-
eg.
(1) to be signed off on the maintenance form by the party that "own" or "managed" the facilities that service indeed was rendered and restore into proper working order.
(2) keeping a photo or "video" that the facilities indeed that have been rendered.
The above are the proper audit trail accepted by the audit - as service rendered and completed - as it is "signed off" by the recipients of the services - only then payment can be made.
Else the call agents either incorrectly record the call as complete when it was not, or to meet the call closure target - deliberately close it when the service level is breached - and open a new one to meet service standards. But town council based on call logs make payment even though service is not completed --- then there will be alot of double payment.
This is a major internal control weaknesses that will lead to "improper payment".
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Also it is not correct for the defense lawyer to ask an external auditor why the auditor did not ask WP why S$200,000 was made to FMSS for salaries paid - which flag as "improper payment".
WP should have record as "$200,000 loan from FMSS" - and thus can tally with the invoice of $200,000 made to FMSS.
Auditor should be able to tally all the audit trail in the system.
What happen if MP has lapse memory and cannot remember how the $200,000 was paid?
Thus the auditor flag as "improper payment" is correct.
All accounts must be properly kept and recorded and must be self explanatory.
I notice that the Defense lawyers has make quite a number of mistakes in their defenses such as :-
(1) conflict of interest
(2) improper payment
(3) acceptance of flaw audit trail eg. call logs
(4) waiver of competition
The defenses lapse can be eaily picked up by the plantiff lawyers and the Judges which can be easily rebutted and faulted.
WP should have record as "$200,000 loan from FMSS" - and thus can tally with the invoice of $200,000 made to FMSS.
Auditor should be able to tally all the audit trail in the system.
What happen if MP has lapse memory and cannot remember how the $200,000 was paid?
Thus the auditor flag as "improper payment" is correct.
All accounts must be properly kept and recorded and must be self explanatory.
I notice that the Defense lawyers has make quite a number of mistakes in their defenses such as :-
(1) conflict of interest
(2) improper payment
(3) acceptance of flaw audit trail eg. call logs
(4) waiver of competition
The defenses lapse can be eaily picked up by the plantiff lawyers and the Judges which can be easily rebutted and faulted.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Imagine if 10 calls are made by the residents that the same lift or lighting or electricity is down.
Call agents logs and record will record 10 fault calls instead of 1 fault call.
When the lift is repair, call agents close 10 fault calls.
Imagine the call logs are use to make payment to FMSI, that means 10 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 1 payment is made.
Imagine in 1 day, 10 lifts need maintenance and 10 call logs per lift are open and close - 100 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 10 payment made.
Within 3 years, Aljunied town council will have accumulate "$33 million" of "overpayment or improper payment" - based on this 1 very serious, fatal internal control weakness make by Aljunied town council.
If maintenance form or repair form are used as service completion certification - and properly signed off by FM recipient for proper service rendered - as basis for payment, then Aljunied town council will not subject to "gross abuse of overpayment" based on call logs.
Call agents logs and record will record 10 fault calls instead of 1 fault call.
When the lift is repair, call agents close 10 fault calls.
Imagine the call logs are use to make payment to FMSI, that means 10 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 1 payment is made.
Imagine in 1 day, 10 lifts need maintenance and 10 call logs per lift are open and close - 100 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 10 payment made.
Within 3 years, Aljunied town council will have accumulate "$33 million" of "overpayment or improper payment" - based on this 1 very serious, fatal internal control weakness make by Aljunied town council.
If maintenance form or repair form are used as service completion certification - and properly signed off by FM recipient for proper service rendered - as basis for payment, then Aljunied town council will not subject to "gross abuse of overpayment" based on call logs.
Like · Reply · 1m
Sharon Lim
Ricky lim, I don’t agree with you. The auditor should be doing his due diligence as an auditor and find out what the $200k was for. It could have so easily been answered as for wages but did he,...selective so called improper payments. Also call centres cannot log jobs as complete unless they know it has been resolved. Otherwise, that’s fraud. The town council is a very large organisation and is not pragmatic or reasonable to record every single service completion to nth degree.
Ricky Lim
Call logs are not acceptable as service completion certification for payment. It must be signed off by service recipient as job completion - if you know audit.
And for maintenance or repair service - audit requirement usually require service recipient to acknowledge service rendered and completed by signing a maintenance service completion form or repair service completion form minimally, some even required to take photo or video as proof.
Just curious whether do you have an account cert or audit cert?
Ricky Lim
Imagine if 10 calls are made by the residents that the same lift or lighting or electricity is down.
Call agents logs and record will record 10 fault calls instead of 1 fault call.
When the lift is repair, call agents close 10 fault calls.
Imagine the call logs are use to make payment to FMSI, that means 10 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 1 payment is made.
Imagine in 1 day, 10 lifts need maintenance and 10 call logs per lift are open and close - 100 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 10 payment made.
Within 3 years, Aljunied town council will have accumulate "$33 million" of "overpayment or improper payment" - based on this 1 very serious, fatal internal control weakness make by Aljunied town council.
If maintenance form or repair form are used as service completion certification - and properly signed off by FM recipient for proper service rendered - as basis for payment, then Aljunied town council will not subject to "gross abuse of overpayment" based on call logs.
And for maintenance or repair service - audit requirement usually require service recipient to acknowledge service rendered and completed by signing a maintenance service completion form or repair service completion form minimally, some even required to take photo or video as proof.
Just curious whether do you have an account cert or audit cert?
Ricky Lim
Imagine if 10 calls are made by the residents that the same lift or lighting or electricity is down.
Call agents logs and record will record 10 fault calls instead of 1 fault call.
When the lift is repair, call agents close 10 fault calls.
Imagine the call logs are use to make payment to FMSI, that means 10 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 1 payment is made.
Imagine in 1 day, 10 lifts need maintenance and 10 call logs per lift are open and close - 100 "improper or overpayment are made" instead of 10 payment made.
Within 3 years, Aljunied town council will have accumulate "$33 million" of "overpayment or improper payment" - based on this 1 very serious, fatal internal control weakness make by Aljunied town council.
If maintenance form or repair form are used as service completion certification - and properly signed off by FM recipient for proper service rendered - as basis for payment, then Aljunied town council will not subject to "gross abuse of overpayment" based on call logs.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
Also very amuse by your statement :-
"The town council is a very large organisation and is not pragmatic or reasonable to record every single service completion to nth degree."
This show that you have not managed a mid-size orgnaisation of $100 milion. And it also show that Aljunied Town Council is a novice or inexperienced in managing a town council.
People have been managing a large size organization and even nation-wide - and must account for every single service and its proper closure - any unresolve service -- you will see customer jumping and shouting.
And people have been managing more challenging and complex services far exceed $100 million sized project or systems that required high skillsets and specialised skills - and yet can pass audit - in terms of properly closing every service calls.
Yet your arguments and conjectures of service standards - explain why Aljunied GRC have "improper and overpayment of $33 million" --- because of lack of proper accounting records and proper document control - that leads to many audit failure and audit lapse.
If you have accounting cert or audit cert - then you have fail your competency in carrying out accounting professional duty - and may lead to complain with the accountancy professional body.
If you don't have the accounting cert or audit cert - then your comments show lack of professional knowledge in commenting on audit matters.
"The town council is a very large organisation and is not pragmatic or reasonable to record every single service completion to nth degree."
This show that you have not managed a mid-size orgnaisation of $100 milion. And it also show that Aljunied Town Council is a novice or inexperienced in managing a town council.
People have been managing a large size organization and even nation-wide - and must account for every single service and its proper closure - any unresolve service -- you will see customer jumping and shouting.
And people have been managing more challenging and complex services far exceed $100 million sized project or systems that required high skillsets and specialised skills - and yet can pass audit - in terms of properly closing every service calls.
Yet your arguments and conjectures of service standards - explain why Aljunied GRC have "improper and overpayment of $33 million" --- because of lack of proper accounting records and proper document control - that leads to many audit failure and audit lapse.
If you have accounting cert or audit cert - then you have fail your competency in carrying out accounting professional duty - and may lead to complain with the accountancy professional body.
If you don't have the accounting cert or audit cert - then your comments show lack of professional knowledge in commenting on audit matters.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
Another flaw of using call logs as basis for payments.
Eg.
(1) 10 calls are make on electricity trip.
(2) At the same time, 100 calls are make on lighting failure.
Call agents will record 10 calls for one electricity trip and 100 lighting failure.
Call agents cannot determine what cause the failure and will record based on residents call.
Service engineer go to service and find that one main electricity fuse trip - and 10 calls on electricity trip and 100 calls on lighting failure is in fact 1 failure.
If maintenance or repair service completion form is not used and instead call logs are used as basis for payment - then 110 payments will have been made instead of 1 payment.
Isn't this a gross internal control failure - that are flag by the auditor?
Eg.
(1) 10 calls are make on electricity trip.
(2) At the same time, 100 calls are make on lighting failure.
Call agents will record 10 calls for one electricity trip and 100 lighting failure.
Call agents cannot determine what cause the failure and will record based on residents call.
Service engineer go to service and find that one main electricity fuse trip - and 10 calls on electricity trip and 100 calls on lighting failure is in fact 1 failure.
If maintenance or repair service completion form is not used and instead call logs are used as basis for payment - then 110 payments will have been made instead of 1 payment.
Isn't this a gross internal control failure - that are flag by the auditor?
Like · Reply · 1m
Sharon Lim
Ricky lim. Very few of the MPs running TCs today have experience running $100m companies. In fact, most are novices so what you talking....your comments are so long and over the top.....so boring.
Ricky Lim
I don't get your points - you mention call logs as audit.
And you mention no account entry needed for loans from FMSS.
Now you talk about experience MPs running $100m companies.
I don't understand your coherency in the topics.
Why my comments so long - because you fail to understand the implications of your comments and you cannot understand simple examples that illustrate the call logs weakness as basis for payment.
And you mention no account entry needed for loans from FMSS.
Now you talk about experience MPs running $100m companies.
I don't understand your coherency in the topics.
Why my comments so long - because you fail to understand the implications of your comments and you cannot understand simple examples that illustrate the call logs weakness as basis for payment.
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