After first F-35 crash, Lockheed Martin reassures customers of jet’s ‘excellent’ safety record
In the third of a three-part series on the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, the defence contractor also discusses the jet's closest competitors, the programme’s problem-riddled past and its grand plans for the future.
22 Oct 2018 06:15AM
Ricky Lim
Posted on :- 20 Oct 2018 06:23AM (Updated: 20 Oct 2018 01:16PM)
Ricky Lim
F35s whether F35A or B will indeed be a "full spectrum game changer" not only in air battlefield and could even be the entire war. Also F35s have virtually not vulnerable to any air defense today.
But there are some information that surface that will have to be taken into consideration :-
(1) Pentagon has still not issue the F-35 for Full Rate Production orders yet - The U.S. Air Force declared F-35A Initial Operational Capability (IOC) in August 2016.
The U.S. Marine Corps declared F-35B IOC in July 2015.
(2) 900 deficiencies in the F35s not yet ratified.
(3) Block 3i software fix achieve stability to double the time before the F35 software restart - affecting sensors, comms etc. - but it still will restart during combat operations.
(4) One F35B crash due to faulty fuel tube.
Not sure will RSAF consider waiting till Pentagon issue the F-35 for Full Rate Production orders - for both F35As and Bs?
Will the wait impact Operational Readiness?
If not it may be worth the wait - as it is a long term heavy investment.
Like · Reply · 1m
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Ricky Lim
F35s whether F35A or B will indeed be a "full spectrum game changer" not only in air battlefield and could even be the entire war. Also F35s have virtually not vulnerable to any air defense today.
But there are some information that surface that will have to be taken into consideration :-
(1) Pentagon has still not issue the F-35 for Full Rate Production orders yet - The U.S. Air Force declared F-35A Initial Operational Capability (IOC) in August 2016.
The U.S. Marine Corps declared F-35B IOC in July 2015.
(2) 900 deficiencies in the F35s not yet ratified.
(3) Block 3i software fix achieve stability to double the time before the F35 software restart - affecting sensors, comms etc. - but it still will restart during combat operations.
(4) One F35B crash due to faulty fuel tube.
Not sure will RSAF consider waiting till Pentagon issue the F-35 for Full Rate Production orders - for both F35As and Bs?
Will the wait impact Operational Readiness?
If not it may be worth the wait - as it is a long term heavy investment.
Like · Reply · 1m
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Ricky Lim :-
(4) One F35B crash due to faulty fuel tube.
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(4) One F35B crash due to faulty fuel tube.
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On Sep 28, a US Marine Corps F-35B crashed in South Carolina with the pilot ejecting safely and no injuries reported on the ground. The F-35B is also the short take-off/vertical landing variant that Singapore is reportedly interested in buying.
Initial investigations pointed to problems with a fuel tube, leading to a grounding of F-35 fleets worldwide as safety inspections were conducted and suspect parts replaced. Since then the US, UK and other countries have cleared majority of their F-35s to resume operations.
This total-loss crash was the first in nearly 160,000 hours of flying the F-35 since it first took off in 2006, prompting Mr Over to describe it as an “excellent safety record”.
In contrast, he said more than 50 pilots had been killed at this point in the F-16 programme, attributing the crashes to pilots losing consciousness during extreme manoeuvres. F-16s are now equipped with software that automatically flies the plane when it is going down.
Initial investigations pointed to problems with a fuel tube, leading to a grounding of F-35 fleets worldwide as safety inspections were conducted and suspect parts replaced. Since then the US, UK and other countries have cleared majority of their F-35s to resume operations.
This total-loss crash was the first in nearly 160,000 hours of flying the F-35 since it first took off in 2006, prompting Mr Over to describe it as an “excellent safety record”.
In contrast, he said more than 50 pilots had been killed at this point in the F-16 programme, attributing the crashes to pilots losing consciousness during extreme manoeuvres. F-16s are now equipped with software that automatically flies the plane when it is going down.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Ricky Lim :-
(2) 900 deficiencies in the F35s not yet ratified.
(3) Block 3i software fix achieve stability to double the time before the F35 software restart - affecting sensors, comms etc. - but it still will restart during combat operations.
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(2) 900 deficiencies in the F35s not yet ratified.
(3) Block 3i software fix achieve stability to double the time before the F35 software restart - affecting sensors, comms etc. - but it still will restart during combat operations.
------
In a June 2018 report, the US Government Accountability Office noted more than 900 unresolved technical deficiencies on the F-35, over 100 of which could “jeopardise safety, security or another critical requirement”.
However, Mr Over said the majority of the critical deficiencies have been resolved with the release of a major software update last December, stating that the F-35 can now deliver every operational capability that was promised when the programme started in 2001.
“Does that mean the software today is perfect? No, it does not,” he added. “There are still lower category deficiencies that exist in it. As we’re moving forward, we’re now adding new capabilities in addition to resolving those outstanding deficiency reports.”
These fix-and-add software updates, which started this year and will be released twice a year, also help future-proof the F-35s as threat weapon systems evolve.
For example, the most recent update allowed the F-35 to use a type of bomb capable of hitting moving targets on the ground. Future editions include new weapons and improvements to the jet’s radar, electronic warfare and targeting systems.
“Certainly, this airplane is going through a modernisation programme that will allow it to stay well ahead of the threat for the lifetime of the airplane,” Mr Over said.
However, Mr Over said the majority of the critical deficiencies have been resolved with the release of a major software update last December, stating that the F-35 can now deliver every operational capability that was promised when the programme started in 2001.
“Does that mean the software today is perfect? No, it does not,” he added. “There are still lower category deficiencies that exist in it. As we’re moving forward, we’re now adding new capabilities in addition to resolving those outstanding deficiency reports.”
These fix-and-add software updates, which started this year and will be released twice a year, also help future-proof the F-35s as threat weapon systems evolve.
For example, the most recent update allowed the F-35 to use a type of bomb capable of hitting moving targets on the ground. Future editions include new weapons and improvements to the jet’s radar, electronic warfare and targeting systems.
“Certainly, this airplane is going through a modernisation programme that will allow it to stay well ahead of the threat for the lifetime of the airplane,” Mr Over said.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Posted on :- 20 Oct 2018 06:23AM (Updated: 20 Oct 2018 01:16PM)
Ricky Lim
(1) I agree by replacing F16 with F35 will be indeed a big step forward in Air Superiority and indeed a "game-changer" - in terms of :-
(a) sensor superiority - and aggregate information
(b) One aggregate and consolidated, unambiguous battle scenario context - presented to pilot where pilots do not need to make decision on the battle situation as the battle situation is unambiguously presented to him. Pilot only need to decide on the execution and determine when to press the button to release his weapon to deliver the kill.
(c) Stealth capability that can go in and out - that will give surprises undetected.
The decision is whether to procure :-
(1) F35A --- which is predominantly procure by many Countries - that have :-
(a) Longer range - 2,200km
(b) more weapon arsenal
(c) more experience and track record gather from many forces flying it - and the planes will be more refined through improvement and more robust
or we are buying :-
(2) F35B - where we do not need a conventional airfield - where we can land anywhere like a helicopter (in case airfield is destroyed).
But we have to live with :-
(a) shorter range of only 1600 km
(b) lesser weapon arsenal - as main lift, auxillary lift, nozzle - for vertical lift and air ducts for plane stability take up the spaces.
(c) as lesser airforces buying the F35B variants --- Singapore is taking a bit of risk in terms of the robustness of this variants -- as more airforce buy the planes, more experience, more issues or teething problems can be ironed out. But if less airforce buy this variant, Singapore may take the hit as we will have to face more issues or more teething problems that may surface as we fly the planes.
Thinking aloud, will Mindef and RSAF consider :-
(1) 50% F35A &
(2) 50% F35B ?
I know that if buy all F35A or all F35B --- will be more cost effective as having 2 variants is like having 2 different brand of planes to maintain and manage and require different logistics and maintaneance tools - which will mean more costs.
But isn't it the same like we buy F16s, but we also buy F15s - to satisfy different operational needs.
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Ricky Lim
By having 50% F35Bs and 50% F35As ---- we are not putting "all eggs in one basket".
Eg. :-
(1) If all our airfields come under attack -- our F35Bs from other places (not airfields) can survive the attack - to do counter attack.
(2) In case, if F35Bs encounter some teething manufacturing problems that we discover after we procure, run-in and after performance guaranteed period is over - it will not impair our investment, as at least we have 50% F35As in full operation and will not impair our operational requirements.
This is the risk management that will like to propose - to prevent putting "all eggs in one basket".
But the only downside -- will be :-
(1) higher maintaineance cost
(2) higher logistic cost
(3) need to train 2 sets of pilots - one to fly F35As and one to fly F35Bs --- or can cross trained - but means higher training cost.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
(1) I agree by replacing F16 with F35 will be indeed a big step forward in Air Superiority and indeed a "game-changer" - in terms of :-
(a) sensor superiority - and aggregate information
(b) One aggregate and consolidated, unambiguous battle scenario context - presented to pilot where pilots do not need to make decision on the battle situation as the battle situation is unambiguously presented to him. Pilot only need to decide on the execution and determine when to press the button to release his weapon to deliver the kill.
(c) Stealth capability that can go in and out - that will give surprises undetected.
The decision is whether to procure :-
(1) F35A --- which is predominantly procure by many Countries - that have :-
(a) Longer range - 2,200km
(b) more weapon arsenal
(c) more experience and track record gather from many forces flying it - and the planes will be more refined through improvement and more robust
or we are buying :-
(2) F35B - where we do not need a conventional airfield - where we can land anywhere like a helicopter (in case airfield is destroyed).
But we have to live with :-
(a) shorter range of only 1600 km
(b) lesser weapon arsenal - as main lift, auxillary lift, nozzle - for vertical lift and air ducts for plane stability take up the spaces.
(c) as lesser airforces buying the F35B variants --- Singapore is taking a bit of risk in terms of the robustness of this variants -- as more airforce buy the planes, more experience, more issues or teething problems can be ironed out. But if less airforce buy this variant, Singapore may take the hit as we will have to face more issues or more teething problems that may surface as we fly the planes.
Thinking aloud, will Mindef and RSAF consider :-
(1) 50% F35A &
(2) 50% F35B ?
I know that if buy all F35A or all F35B --- will be more cost effective as having 2 variants is like having 2 different brand of planes to maintain and manage and require different logistics and maintaneance tools - which will mean more costs.
But isn't it the same like we buy F16s, but we also buy F15s - to satisfy different operational needs.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
By having 50% F35Bs and 50% F35As ---- we are not putting "all eggs in one basket".
Eg. :-
(1) If all our airfields come under attack -- our F35Bs from other places (not airfields) can survive the attack - to do counter attack.
(2) In case, if F35Bs encounter some teething manufacturing problems that we discover after we procure, run-in and after performance guaranteed period is over - it will not impair our investment, as at least we have 50% F35As in full operation and will not impair our operational requirements.
This is the risk management that will like to propose - to prevent putting "all eggs in one basket".
But the only downside -- will be :-
(1) higher maintaineance cost
(2) higher logistic cost
(3) need to train 2 sets of pilots - one to fly F35As and one to fly F35Bs --- or can cross trained - but means higher training cost.
Like · Reply · 1m
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Ricky Lim :-
Thinking aloud, will Mindef and RSAF consider :-
(1) 50% F35A &
(2) 50% F35B ?
I know that if buy all F35A or all F35B --- will be more cost effective as having 2 variants is like having 2 different brand of planes to maintain and manage and require different logistics and maintaneance tools - which will mean more costs.
Eg. :-
(1) If all our airfields come under attack -- our F35Bs from other places (not airfields) can survive the attack - to do counter attack.
(2) In case, if F35Bs encounter some teething manufacturing problems that we discover after we procure, run-in and after performance guaranteed period is over - it will not impair our investment, as at least we have 50% F35As in full operation and will not impair our operational requirements.
This is the risk management that will like to propose - to prevent putting "all eggs in one basket".
----
When these customers first buy the jet, they will also get a logistics support package, comprising training equipment, spare parts and maintenance systems, that will cost roughly 20 per cent of the jet’s unit price.
Both of these costs are on top of the jet’s unit price, which for the B variant currently stands at US$115.5 million.
Mr Over said Lockheed Martin’s objective in the next five to six years is for the F-35 to be as affordable to maintain as the F-16. And he is even more confident of hitting the US$80 million-per-jet target by 2020.
Thinking aloud, will Mindef and RSAF consider :-
(1) 50% F35A &
(2) 50% F35B ?
I know that if buy all F35A or all F35B --- will be more cost effective as having 2 variants is like having 2 different brand of planes to maintain and manage and require different logistics and maintaneance tools - which will mean more costs.
Eg. :-
(1) If all our airfields come under attack -- our F35Bs from other places (not airfields) can survive the attack - to do counter attack.
(2) In case, if F35Bs encounter some teething manufacturing problems that we discover after we procure, run-in and after performance guaranteed period is over - it will not impair our investment, as at least we have 50% F35As in full operation and will not impair our operational requirements.
This is the risk management that will like to propose - to prevent putting "all eggs in one basket".
----
When these customers first buy the jet, they will also get a logistics support package, comprising training equipment, spare parts and maintenance systems, that will cost roughly 20 per cent of the jet’s unit price.
Both of these costs are on top of the jet’s unit price, which for the B variant currently stands at US$115.5 million.
Mr Over said Lockheed Martin’s objective in the next five to six years is for the F-35 to be as affordable to maintain as the F-16. And he is even more confident of hitting the US$80 million-per-jet target by 2020.
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Ricky Lim
Posted on :- 20 Oct 2018 06:23AM (Updated: 20 Oct 2018 01:16PM)
Ricky Lim
China 5G stealth plane - J-20 is built like a heavy stealth bomber and J-31 as a fighter jet.
Unlike F35s are a hybrid.
20 Chinese J-20’s are in Low Rate Initial Production - but their engine are still not ready - and other than flying - have not seen to be in operational status.
In addition J20, J31 (which is still far from development) - are not for sale.
Russia SU-57 design to be stealth - have not seen stealth yet.
9 F35 have seen combat operated by Israel.
Ricky Lim
China 5G stealth plane - J-20 is built like a heavy stealth bomber and J-31 as a fighter jet.
Unlike F35s are a hybrid.
20 Chinese J-20’s are in Low Rate Initial Production - but their engine are still not ready - and other than flying - have not seen to be in operational status.
In addition J20, J31 (which is still far from development) - are not for sale.
Russia SU-57 design to be stealth - have not seen stealth yet.
9 F35 have seen combat operated by Israel.
Like · Reply · 1m
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Russia and China’s respective Sukhoi Su-57 and Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters have both been plagued by engine problems, with reports indicating that Moscow will not mass produce the Su-57 and Beijing only nearing mass production of the J-20.
“(The F-35) is going to stay well ahead of those airplanes,” Mr Over said. “We do our own intelligence assessments of where we think our adversaries are located. And I can tell you in my opinion we’re at least 15 years ahead. Not only in stealth but also in the mission systems on the airplane.”
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Russia and China’s respective Sukhoi Su-57 and Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters have both been plagued by engine problems, with reports indicating that Moscow will not mass produce the Su-57 and Beijing only nearing mass production of the J-20.
“(The F-35) is going to stay well ahead of those airplanes,” Mr Over said. “We do our own intelligence assessments of where we think our adversaries are located. And I can tell you in my opinion we’re at least 15 years ahead. Not only in stealth but also in the mission systems on the airplane.”
Tommie Vale
Maybe Singapore can try a few J-20 first or maybe rafale before getting the F-35.
Jun Jie
Rafale is a 4th generation which the rsaf owns F15 sg that is very much more capable than rafale due to modernisation upgrades and inter Israel cooperation of new radar upgrades. China J20 is like American F22 policies, no sales no matter what, Pakistan wanted to buy j20 and got rejected, china’s Best Friend Pakistan also cannot get no way Singapore got a chance to even climb into 1. Russia already lower the classification of su57 as a 4+ generation fighter. The only 5th generation that is capable now is the F35, Chinese J31 for foreign sales is not compatible for Singapore weaponries traditionally USA, EUROPEAN hardware it will have troubles communicating data between systems like ground assets and sea assets. It is guaranteed surely that RSAF will not purchase non western, European hardware because if they do they will have a huge obstacles making the weaponries capable of communicating and collecting data creating a usable battlefield information. 😂
Like · Reply · 1h
Jun Jie
Jm Chow your a YouTube expert, reading your comments, you watched a lot of YouTube videos to come to that conclusion. Currently the F35 is the only operational 5th generation that have seen warfare by Israel. A proven war track record that enemy radar mainly Russian S300 cannot detect it. you are not from the Republic of Singapore Air Force personnel clearly. Singapore hardware predominantly is from USA and EUROPE all our weaponries are integrated to provide a connected and wide information data of the battlefield from the myriad of sensors be it ground based, air or sea. Purchasing the J31 a plane that was assessed by Pakistan to be not up to standard and refused to purchase because of its lacking wf turnofan( their jet engine) yielding Low power to fly that massive plane and lower engine hours required for servicing. All Chinese engines the WF15 are below American standards of capable of flying 10000 hours minimum servicing record. With this in mind the Chinese engines are already no go for now even if Singapore neglect American pressure against Singapore for purchasing Chinese weaponries.
The fact of the matter is Chinese jets is extremely capable due to its YouTube propaganda, but no doubt it will reach what that claimed eventually, but it isn’t today.
If Singapore purchased weaponries deviating from USA, EUROPE it means we have to overhaul all weaponries and system so that it can communicate with Chinese planes or Russian jets so that the sensors on board those jets can provide information together integrated into a battlefield datalink.
I applaud you on your YouTube knowledge. It is extremely obvious and it’s a disgrace for your age to easily be fooled by information online, no wonder the government erected the false information law. 🤦🏻♂️
The fact of the matter is Chinese jets is extremely capable due to its YouTube propaganda, but no doubt it will reach what that claimed eventually, but it isn’t today.
If Singapore purchased weaponries deviating from USA, EUROPE it means we have to overhaul all weaponries and system so that it can communicate with Chinese planes or Russian jets so that the sensors on board those jets can provide information together integrated into a battlefield datalink.
I applaud you on your YouTube knowledge. It is extremely obvious and it’s a disgrace for your age to easily be fooled by information online, no wonder the government erected the false information law. 🤦🏻♂️
Reply · 1h
Angie Huang
...why does SG need F35A, B or C when a terrorist attack on Jurong Island or a rocket attack on MBS will send SG back to a fishing village???!!!...
Jun Jie
Are you from Hong Kong or China? Because your surname is definitely not local here. To answer your question Singapore will always know before a terrorist is able to strike, because all high level locations are protected. And also it wouldn’t be possible to be struck by terrorist made rockets if they cannot smuggle in the first place. The F35 variants guarantees of air dominance far into the future should Malaysia or Indonesia mess with us. Because our policies is ensuring mutual destruction to our aggressors so that it will never be worth attacking Singapore. You are not a singaporean for failing to understand this taught since young.
Reply · 1h
Derrek Chang
Our RSAF is dead stuck with military aircraft from US. We have training ground in US, where our pilots shared the same airspace with the American elite fighter pilots, and there is no rooms for our government to switch to other makers in either Russia or China. Once that is done, we may lose the priviledge to train in the US. Though the cost of stealth fighters made from China and Russia are cheaper, government will honour the strong relationship we have had with US to get our taxdollars to foot for the F35. And most agree F35 is not fully operational, yet such move could literally damage credibility should any incident occur wasting taxpayer money.
Ideally, we should look around the neighbouring regions how the air force is equipped where poses any threat significantly to raise the buy call for F35. If our current outdated F16 is still operational and could protect our airspace from potential intruders from neighbouring nations with less inferior fighter jets, why do we need to invest ? Unlike Saudi, the threat looms from Middle East crisis from Turkey to Syria. That investment is justifable. Japan, threat of China invasion, and that justify its investment. In here, have we figure out whom would be a threat against current batch of F16 in order to raise order book for F35 ?
Ideally, we should look around the neighbouring regions how the air force is equipped where poses any threat significantly to raise the buy call for F35. If our current outdated F16 is still operational and could protect our airspace from potential intruders from neighbouring nations with less inferior fighter jets, why do we need to invest ? Unlike Saudi, the threat looms from Middle East crisis from Turkey to Syria. That investment is justifable. Japan, threat of China invasion, and that justify its investment. In here, have we figure out whom would be a threat against current batch of F16 in order to raise order book for F35 ?
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