REACH 256 - View on going back to Phase 2 (Heightened Alert)? (SK)
20 July 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[3:51 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
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[4:00 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
From Thursday (July 22) till Aug 18, Singapore will revert to PHASE TWO (Heightened Alert) with tighter measures in place to stem the recent spike in community cases. The announcement by the multi-ministry task force on Covid-19 came as Singapore recorded its highest number of community cases since the pandemic began for the second straight day on Monday.
๐ฌ How do you feel about going back to Phase 2 (Heightened Alert)? How does Phase 2 (HA) affect you and your family? How can we encourage more seniors to get vaccinated?
Minister Gan Kim Yong said that given the rate at which new clusters are growing, tougher measures are necessary to slow down the spread of the virus to give time to raise vaccination coverage, especially among the elderly.
Mr Gan said: "I know today's announcement feels like a huge setback to many who have been observing the rules, and doing whatever it takes to keep themselves and the larger population safe.
"We deeply appreciate your efforts. Once we have slowed down the new clusters and hit higher vaccination rates, we would be able to continue with our reopening journey."
The new measures include:
๐ Cap on group sizes reduced to two
๐ Dining in and other mask-off activities to be ceased
๐ Limits for live events cut to 100
๐ Capacity caps for attractions, malls to be cut
๐ Mandatory SafeEntry check-in for all markets, hawker centres
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/no-dining-in-social-group-sizes-cut-to-2-from-july-22-as-spore-returns-to-phase-2
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/schools-to-remain-open-no-school-based-covid-19-transmissions-from-recent-cases
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/tracetogether-check-in-to-be-mandatory-at-markets-food-centres-28-such-venues
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spore-returns-to-phase-2-what-you-need-to-know-about-tightened-covid-19-rules-from
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[4:04 pm, 20/07/2021] +Stan: One step forward two steps backwards!!
[4:06 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Hello! What's the reason of going back?
[4:06 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Make all go for the jab. Unless allergies
[4:06 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: No jab, no dine in
[4:07 pm, 20/07/2021] +Stan: Got jab also no dine in
[4:07 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: I mean after 22 Aug
[4:07 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Os to break the pace of spread
[4:07 pm, 20/07/2021] +Stan: I guess have to wait and see
[4:08 pm, 20/07/2021] +Stan: This cluster is no joke as it is all over the island
[4:08 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Takes another 2 weeks to slow down bah
[4:08 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Cos the sources are where community gather most aka market and nitespots
[4:09 pm, 20/07/2021] +Stan: This is bigger than Changi Airport one, i doubt 2 weeks can settle
[4:09 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Slow not settle....
[4:09 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: But we cannot follow us and uk they are facing a super surge now
[4:10 pm, 20/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Schools and Tuition centers are as usual?!
I really don't understand THE LOGIC behind this?!
What are we experimenting with?!
Talking about seniors but forgetting about young Children?!
I really Minister will give break down of
How many Beds available in KKH for children, and how many Pediatrics ICU beds and staff,
How equipped is KKH in the event sudden rise in cases in schools!(even Symptoms or not Children need to Be Admitted and monitored For any sudden deterioration)
How sure he is that This Variant not going to cause Any harm to Children!
Very disappointed
Despite Knowing the High Infectious rate of variant, not implementing enough measures wilp be a grave mistake.
Unfortunate incidents we can't predict or avoid... But to control spread is in our hands at least for now.
So if we dont act it will be a disaster :(
[4:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +Stan: They are saying Fishing port could have preceded KTV, that is bad news which means it was circulating undetected before KTV revelations
[4:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: People keep forgetting the after effects of covid
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ken Loh: ๐คฆ๐ป♂️
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yeah
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: I said once before if gentle approach cannot work
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Based on what I read, a female social hostess work in KTV as free lance - but is a permanent worker in Jurong fishery port.
Also a few male workers in JFP also are regular visitors to the KTV.
They all tested positive during KTV cluster testing.
Subsequent test in JFP as part of contact tracing discover that many JFP also infected.
Thus now not sure is it KTV cluster infected JFP or JFP infected KTV cluster.
But one thing for sure is, KTV maskless and close interaction is the biggest loopholes that trigger the outbreak - because strangers are in close contact without safeguard (worst than family members) - and covid spread like wildfire.
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Also you may be correct.
KTV don't have Indonesian social hostess.
Indonesia Delta strain come from JFP.
Could be the female and male JFP workers got infected from Indonesian fishing workers that park their fishing ships here - and then visit the KTV and infect people in KTV - who don't wear mask and in close contact.
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Show how ppl die from covid
[4:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Put up the effects of getting covid medically and financially
[4:13 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Why keep on behaving like a nice parent still 'counselling' a spolit brat
[4:14 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: How long more can we go thru such disappointment again
[4:14 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Talk till the cow come home also like that
[4:15 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why like smallpox as quoted by our medical experts where its R0 is similar to Delta variants - only 100% vaccination can work.
That's why coming to the crunch, government may have to dictate 100% vaccination - and this can only be done by mandatory vaccination.
[4:18 pm, 20/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Just to share Few years ago my girl got severe UTI and not eating and drinking and we went to KKH
And to get Bed it took many hours !!
In usual times itself not easy to get Bed For children (I am talking about KKH private we can't afford and i don't know)
So i can not even imagine What they are thinking about Covid?!
They are number of children acroos world Got severe infection
Just because we don't have it here now, no guarantee that tomorrow don't have!!
Why can't we Take action before its too late.
Anyway how much i say is No use it seems.
Take care everyone. Let's not take it easy. Thanks
[4:24 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My close friend comments:-
We have to face the reality that covid virus is a very difficult enemy.
While we retreat allow time to increase vaccination, we should also think about how to effectively allow more relax rules for those who are fully vaccinated.
Say gov come out with some kind of tamper proof sticker where fully vaccinated persons can stick on their NRIC/driver licence cards for adults and NRIC/student pass for students.
Then gov can consider allowing businesses to operate on a model for vaccinated customers. SDAs are empowered to check for strict compliances.
Why this? Otherwise, many of our vaccinated persons' antibodies may wane off before even we start our endemic phase.
Then we are forever in a catch 22 situation.
[4:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: No issue for me
[4:32 pm, 20/07/2021] +65 9296 7168: Hope G will allow 1 pax dine in with 1m or 2m distancing. People eating in vehicles, staircase, road curb is very distressing๐ฉ. No everyone can be home for meals.
[4:34 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Some perspective here:
[4:35 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: People in hospital needing Oxygen: 5
[4:35 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Why aren't schools, tuition centres and enrichment centres closed yet? I recall P2HA included closure of student-related activities
[4:36 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: That's less than .0001% of the population
[4:36 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: This is why case numbers alone are no longer relevant.
[4:37 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: It looks like we are shutting down businesses, preventing travel, increasing social restrictions because of case number, whereas there are just 5 people ill in hospital.
[4:37 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If smallpox which have the same transmission rate - mandate compulsory vaccination --- wonder why covid with the same transmission rate cannot be mandated with compulsory vaccination?
[4:38 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: https://www.gov.sg/features/covid-19#icucases
[4:39 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: I don't know how long those 5 have been seriously ill in hospital, many months and maybe there were unvaccinated.
[4:39 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: 1 person in ICU - 1!
[4:40 pm, 20/07/2021] +Dan: They follow MOE's guidelines of HBL.
[4:40 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: OK nvm, I found the answer!
https://www.facebook.com/129011692114/posts/10158030767912115/
[4:40 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Maybe ppl go in and out
[4:40 pm, 20/07/2021] +WJ: agree.
[4:41 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Mandate the vaccine to get more seniors vaccinated, or remove access to Covid related health care. Why are we still asking this question?
[4:42 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Please legislate this now!
[4:42 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: If 1 person in ICU is shutting down the country then please just enforce vaccination otherwise we will never get back to any kind of normal life.
[4:42 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Yes!
[4:45 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Like many others, we are done with this. We need decisive action. It's not right that people are refusing vaccinations and causing our country to be shutdown even though just 6 people are seriously ill
[4:46 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: We can't open up and put our kids at risk. The spread we are seeing now is because people are not getting their vaccines. Mandate it, or remove access to Covid related health care and keep ill people in quarantine.
[4:48 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: We saw LKY video recently posted here. That's the decisive action we need, and we need it now.
[4:49 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: How can we encourage more seniors to get vaccinated? We have moved beyond encouragement. We must now turn to requirement for the good of Singapore and our Children. They are the innocent ones at risk from people who stubbornly refuse to get vaccinated.
[4:50 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Jurong Fishery Port Covid-19 cluster likely spread from Indonesian or other fishing boats; fish in S'pore still safe to eat: Kenneth Mak
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jurong-fishery-port-covid-19-cluster-likely-spread-from-indonesian-or-other-fishing-boats
[4:50 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My justification for mandatory vaccination is:-
1. We are going through the vicious cycle of lockdown of the economy when 1 wave after another hit :-
a. Wuhan visitor 1st wave.
b. Dormitory 2nd wave
c. Delta variants 3rd wave
d. KTV 4th wave.
2. Our smallpox pandemic show us mandatory vaccination 100% among population can 100% stop the smallpox.
3. Smallpox transmission rate R0 = 8 - similar to Delta variants R0 = 8.
4. Won't it be the right time to stop this vicious cycle waves once and for all - by decisively mandate 100% vaccination --- so that in future there will be no more lockdown.
[4:51 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Question for this group: What do you think about the restrictions, considering just 1 person is in ICU and only 5 are on Oxygen?
[4:52 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Our economy is sufficiently damage by the covid pandemic.
Only decisive and hard action can stop it
We should ride on the current mood and frustration - to drive Mandatory Vaccination so that there will be less political impact and resistance among especially the elderly.
[4:52 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Would help if citizens know how the MTF thinks
[4:52 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
There is severe long covid effects among the unvaccinated.
[4:52 pm, 20/07/2021] +Peter T Ng: In due course, may be good to redeploy resources from vaccine centres to become home and mobile vaccination teams.
This is an ongoing outreach, hope to have more vaccine options in the near future
[4:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: We need to know how many people are being hospitalizations.
[4:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Indeed. They seem to be OK with that.
[4:53 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/long-covid-fears-grow-in-uk-as-curbs-end-and-delta-cases-surge
1 million people in UK suffer from long covid - the long term effects of covid for those infected.
It is not normal endemic flu.
Covid is a severe effect virus.
[4:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: 288
[4:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: 288 all in stable condition
[4:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Not all in hospital
[4:54 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
In stable condition doesn't mean no long covid.
[4:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Some are in community care
[4:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: 288 in hospital, 388 in community care
[4:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: https://www.gov.sg/features/covid-19#icucases
[4:55 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1 million UK previously infected people have long covid and multiple organ damage.
[4:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Numbers in hospital means these grp may end up in ICU
[4:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: They are all stable, so unlikely. No evidence of that. ICU coming down.
[4:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Peter T Ng: Increasing #
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: It's short sighted to say only a few are sick, therfore, there's no need to control so tightly now. Any thinking adult will be able to see that all around the world numbers increase exponentially if no controls are in place. So, I support the swift action to return to Phase 2.
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Then shut down for what ah
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: How about shutdown all the wet markets
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Instead of everyone in SG affected
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: That's in the works!
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Is anyone suggesting 'no controls'? Please don't be so binary.
[4:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: It's not all or nothing.
[4:57 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Irresponsible to have no control
[4:57 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Exactly, no one is saying that. Let's be clear, we are talking about adjustments to keep in perspective.
[4:58 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Yes
[4:58 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: As discussed before, the case numbers alone are not helpful. We need to see in context of how people are affected. If 1,000 get Covid, a headache and no long term affects it's less serious than 10 people geting covid and all going to ICU.
[5:03 pm, 20/07/2021] +Connie: Statistics from Malaysia
[5:04 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Ok, so Long Covid appears to affect unvaccinated people, which concerns me for those who cannot be vaccinated. Medically unfit and children. Those who can be vaccinated but won't are putting them at risk, as well as potentially incubating new variants that could affect us all.
[5:04 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: I am glad the government is not taking the risk to wait until numbers go up.
[5:05 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: This is excellent - and much more informative communication.
[5:05 pm, 20/07/2021] +Connie: I think so too, but we do not hv this kind of numbers
[5:06 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: @+REACH need to update fast. That's the point of this WhatsApp function right
[5:06 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Reach..... :) We like this reporting.
[5:06 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
When government formulate public health policy - the government is not reckless.
If just looking at small hospitalisation and death - and conclude that covid is mild flu will be fatal and reckless.
If many infected people who are unvaccinated develop long covid - the pressure on future hospitals resources will be tremendous.
In addition, many of our people will suffer long medical conditions due to reckless opening - which Singapore with small population cannot afford.
Our responsible actions is to get each and every one vaccinated - so that no one will suffer from long covid and everyone underlying health is safeguarded.
Only then we can start to talk about endemic.
Else all talk about endemic is reckless, ignorance and irresponsible.
[5:06 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: +1
[5:07 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Children below 12 years old could be vaccinated - pending trial conducted by the vaccine vendors which should be ready by late August or September.
[5:07 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: I think we have these numbers, just that it's not reported. I agree that these numbers would be useful. But the numbers should be shown along with how many in each category are vaxxed and how many are not.
[5:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: 182 new locally transmitted COVID-19 cases in Singapore, with 135 linked to Jurong Fishery Port cluster
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid19-new-cases-singapore-jul-20-jurong-fishery-port-ktv-moh-15252624#
[5:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: And please go back to releasing the locations visited by confirmed cases, at least for this period where there's a spike
[5:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Yes
[5:12 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
182 community cases.
Run out of control already.
No wonder need to rollback to phase 2 HA
[5:24 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: Jurong Fishery Port Covid-19 cluster likely spread from fishing boats; fish in S'pore still safe to eat
Fish in Singapore is still safe for consumption although it is likely that the Jurong Fishery Port cluster cases came from Indonesian or other fishing boats and via multiple points, said Singapore's director of medical services Kenneth Mak on Tuesday (July 20).
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jurong-fishery-port-covid-19-cluster-likely-spread-from-indonesian-or-other-fishing-boats
[5:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: That would be even better!
[5:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Makes sense
[5:26 pm, 20/07/2021] +Shane: Sorry just my opinion here, is there anyway perhaps we can balance out by not getting those elderly who do not wish to be vaccinated to remain as they are while ensuring number do come down and maintain?
[5:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Jospeh Ong: The decisions made/restrictions/measures do not have to be binary. Strict lockdowns may be a bit of any overkill or maybe not. We will only know post mortem, and likely only many years down the road.
Right now, it makes sense to err on the side of caution since we are very close to achieving our vaccination targets. It probably will mean a couple more months if everyone corporates and get vaccinated.
The process will evolve, but the progression has to be correct. I am glad that our G has obviously taken that into consideration. On our part, we need patience, trust and probably some sacrifices and discomfort. Also, encourage people you know who are still hesitating about being vaccinated to go get it done.
[5:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Are you advocating for Phase 1, phase 2 or phase 3 controls? They are all different levels of control. I think we should go to phase 4, which means people who refuse the vaccine are not allowed to use PT or dine-in, or cinema or religious service, or frankly any event where there are people attending.
[5:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, they just need to stay home.
[5:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, in principle. However we can't afford strict lockdowns for many years, post mortem. I do agree if everyone gets vaccinated then a month or two more of restrictions is worth the price. I also support Gov in the process, just want to keep case numbers in perspective to impact on our lives.
[5:32 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Not likely
[5:32 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
People staying at home if unvaccinated can still be infected and develop illness.
Virus won't skip those elderly and infect others.
As long as there are humans, it will infect.
[5:33 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, but very hard to get infected at home, if it's its by choice of not getting vaccinated then it's their choice and they would have to stay home under quarantine after that anyway, and anyone living with them.
[5:33 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: Well said!
[5:34 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: These senior when scan their TT app or token cannot go some places lor.
[5:34 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Restricted access
[5:34 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: To maybe to only hospital?
[5:35 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Many who stay at home get infected in the last Delta waves - brought home by their working families members.
[5:35 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Yes
[5:35 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: Urging those not vaccinated to stay home is the ideal. But how to enforce that? Put a tracker on their ankles? Again, idealistic view but reality is different.
[5:35 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: ๐คฆ♀️๐คท♂️๐๐
[5:35 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: By TT token lor
[5:36 pm, 20/07/2021] +Jospeh Ong: Totally agree about not wanting extended, multi-year lockdowns. Which makes it even more important to take the short-term pain for the longer term gains.
Unlike many countries while we go into lockdown, our vaccination program continues.
We are close to achieving the vaccination targets which will allow us to end lockdowns. So, hang in there. Our G has already communicated to the masses, our endemic plan - what targets need to be achieved, what we expect to see, and how (what changes) we will manage the “new normal”.
[5:37 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Stay the course
[5:39 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Stay at home still can get infected.
Who say stay at home will not get infected?
[5:42 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Forum: Beer promoters may be another weak link in spread of Covid-19
As recently as last week, I witnessed these women going from table to table at my neighbourhood coffee shop, taking off their masks to share drinks before moving to other tables.The patrons are usually elderly men.
https://news.nestia.com/detail_share/7105711?media_type=1&nestiaShareChannel=whatsapp
[5:42 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why only 100% vaccination then can get protection.
Hide at home is not fail safe.
[5:45 pm, 20/07/2021] +Jospeh Ong: Yes. That is the issue.
Unfortunately, the ones who refuse to be vaccinated, are also the ones who think that it only affects only themselves. And they will refuse to be confined.
Just based in the limited info on the people who were infected in the latest KTV/JFP wave - mostly unvaccinated, does not wear masks properly, does not adhere to safe-distancing measures etc - i can imagine that they mostly have the (false) gungho attitude. They probably openly mock people who are more careful. In fact, I won’t be surprised if those who catch CV19, but have mild/no symptoms, and eventually recover, will be even more emboldened to continue with their reckless behaviour.
[5:46 pm, 20/07/2021] +Shane: I got a feeling they are really being force to take it like it or not even if they are willing to cooperate to stay home if not vaccinated
[5:46 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Manicurist and pedicures is another possibility of a possible cluster!?
[5:46 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: https://youtu.be/hJUyFU8U1GY
[5:47 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Everything also la. Like that doctors also
[5:47 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Massage
[5:48 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: But masks don't come off for mani pedi...
[5:49 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: Agree. Especially those sleazy ones. Masks off, every piece of clothing also off. ๐คฃ
[5:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Can we know what kind of infection control being currently done on the fishing ports?
[5:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: If not let us down again. Like changi airport
[5:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: There must be something fishy going on down there...
[5:59 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Closed already lor, iirc for 2 weeks?
[6:00 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: Singapore, Hong Kong to review travel bubble when COVID-19 situation allows: MOT
Discussions on the Singapore-Hong Kong air travel bubble will resume only when the COVID-19 situation allows, Singapore's Ministry of Transport (MOT) said on Tuesday (Jul 20).
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-singapore-hong-kong-air-travel-bubble-discussions-15254694
[6:00 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: How will gov do to mitigate this issue of being it porus?
[6:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Can shutdown tuition centers?
[6:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Don't want later outbreak there
[6:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Then prolong this 2HA
[6:02 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Bubble again!!! ๐คฆ๐ป♂️
[6:02 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Thought change to corridor?
[6:02 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Jinx by bubble until this state
[6:03 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: If outbreak there. Means only sch will close? The rest for adult all open?
[6:03 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Agree. Tuition and enrichment centres please. Enrichment centres are not essential. Tuition is arguably important esp leading up to the major exams, but it's less painful to HBL tuition than to do HBL for everything.
[6:04 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: If not why don't open swimming pools for children?
[6:07 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Huh? How does someone at home get infected, and then infected others? In your example they went out for a meal.
[6:08 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: For real? They were sharing drinks? These men are stupid to be sharing drinks with each other and the drinks server. That's just weird.
[6:09 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Social Distancing!?
[6:09 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
All eat at home and the infected person infected all family members.
[6:10 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Bubble or corridor, jinx!
[6:10 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: 100% vaccination is only 90% safe, its not immunity.
[6:11 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Smallpox got 100% vaccination.
Smallpox dies off in Singapore.
[6:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: It's actually less risky than dining cos the masks don't come off.
[6:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Lol, I heard they keep the masks on.
[6:13 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
No vaccines are 100% effective.
They rely on herd immunity to prevent host jumping - and then die off naturally.
[6:15 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: I mean those that are open now
[6:15 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Lol, just worrying to go pop
[6:16 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: So they didn't stay home then, obviously it requires all to stay home.
[6:16 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Are you talking about the fish stalls? If so:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-nea-fresh-fish-seafood-stalls-operations-testing-moh-15243990
[6:17 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Smallpox vaccines is 95% effective - similar to mRNA vaccines against covid.
Smallpox have to rely on 100% vaccination herd immunity - to kill off smallpox pandemic.
If covid Delta variants R0 = smallpox R0 = 8 ----- if no 100% vaccination, how to kill off covid pandemic?
[6:17 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: It won't happen with Covid, until all countries are vaccinated, likely 2026
[6:17 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: We have to learn to live with it
[6:19 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
We don't have to care how other countries do.
We just need to get our population 100% vaccination first.
[6:20 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Else unvaccinated people get infected and develop long covid - that will stress our hospitals resources.
[6:20 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, but the point is that we do have to care. Until our region is safe, cases will keep popping up unless we close our borders.
[6:20 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Unless we don't treat people who refuse the vaccine. They must pay for treatment 100%
[6:21 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Without subsidy
[6:21 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, correct
[6:22 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This will worsen the covid if people don't go for treatment especially elderly.
Our government are compassionate to elderly providing all sort of medical benefits and subsidy.
No need to resort to this.
Just by a stroke of the law - everyone compulsory must jab.
[6:22 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Why should Singapore subsidise the stubborn, who put our children and this country at risk?
[6:23 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: We talk about Iron in our blood and taking tough decisions. Let's put that into practice.
[6:23 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Some are stubborn, some are ignorance, some are fearful that the vaccines will kill them.
[6:23 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: I mean the fishmongers who go to fisher ports and to buy and bring to wet markets.
And workers in fish ports how to minimize being contacted with the virus.
[6:23 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: So you want to force them into it?
[6:23 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: With relevant financial assistance for fully approved vaccine only for side effects. Not sinovac!
[6:24 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
How will that help to ensure 100% vaccination if people don't get treatment?
[6:24 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: This is home truely
Where I know I must be
Where Covid waits for me ..
Where quarantine waits for me
[6:24 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Incentive to get the vaccine knowing that if anything happens you will be looked after.
[6:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: [Sent by Gov.sg – 20 Jul]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 182 new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.
There are 13 imported cases today, who have already been placed on Stay-Home Notice or isolated upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 195 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh200721update
1️⃣ Seniors aged 60 and above can walk into any Vaccination Centre, polyclinic or participating Public Health Preparedness Clinic to get vaccinated.
2️⃣ Seniors who walk into a Vaccination Centre may approach any Community Clubs/Centres’ counter service to bring forward their 2nd dose or call 1800-333-9999 to reschedule.
[6:25 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Elderly incentive and disincentive don't work on them.
Only law will work on them.
[6:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: By refusing the vaccine you are at risk. Seems these people don't care about anyone else's health, or our economy.
[6:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Then they can accept the consequences.
[6:26 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: And maybe their families will 'encourage' them.
[6:26 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: That is after all the topic of today, how to 'encourage' people to get vaccinated
[6:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Give $$$
[6:27 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
No used.
Talk until the cow come home cannot convince them.
Only say Zheng Hu mandate - then they scare.
[6:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=4744336075580957&id=916503765030893&sfnsn=mo
[6:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Top up medisave
[6:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: To who?
[6:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: To those who have vax
[6:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Yes
[6:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Ah yes top up medisave, good idea
[6:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Then those who cannot vax will cry discrimination
[6:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: Ok. Give out in Dec
[6:28 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: When the new vax has been out
[6:29 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: So those can't take mRNAs one go no more excuse
[6:29 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Incentive has criteria and means testing
[6:29 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Or after booster shot!?
[6:30 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: That will be like 1 year later from now?
[6:30 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Then that's not about the vax already mah. That's a totally separate criteria.
[6:30 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Possibly around cny 2022
[6:30 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: But will take a few months to vax all of us. 5 million
[6:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Time is of the utmost essence!
[6:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: Then what about people who just jabbed? No way they're gonna get booster in Feb.
[6:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Let MTF figure it out!
[6:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: From the looks of it, this is gonna become an annual thing
[6:31 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Yes
[6:37 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Government is issuing ART kit to every household. Enter your Postal Code to find the collection location. https://www.gowhere.gov.sg/art
[6:40 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. No countries can ensure watertight borders as long as we continue to trade, export and import goods from other countries and accept overseas travellers.
2. The only foolproof solution is to get our population 100% vaccinated.
[6:42 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: ๐ง
[6:44 pm, 20/07/2021] +YT: I don't know why the vaccination speed is so slow though. Perhaps limited by the supply of vaccines? I read that many countries have done tens of millions of jabs. We can't even get past 5 million 6 months into this exercise.
[6:44 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: The webbie doesn't look right.... See screenshot of FB post by TCJ
[6:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Link is to MOH
[6:59 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Ong Ye Kung say in US and the West, 90% to 95% elderly have vaccinated.
Singapore is emulating these countries to get our elderly Vaccinated.
[6:59 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Right approach
[7:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: It's limited to people who've been to certain locations. It's not every household in Singapore. So the original message was incorrect
[7:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Supermarkets are well-stocked with seafood, don’t panic buy despite market stall closures: sfa
Alternative Supplies To Be Ramped Up To Meet Demand: Grace Fu With the 2-week closure of Jurong Fishery Port, the in Singapore, some Singaporeans were concerned over seafood supplies.They’ll also be given self-testing Antigen Rapid Test (ART) kits, and must test themselves on the 7th day since they were exposed to the virus.
https://news.nestia.com/detail_share/7104808?media_type=1&nestiaShareChannel=whatsapp
[7:10 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: vaccine is a must but that does not means the spreading will stop
[7:10 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: see what is happening to the UK and US
[7:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: even they themselves are struggling with rising numbers from d variant.
[7:11 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Only when reach herd immunity.
[7:11 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: based on news report yesterday uk along in one day jump 50k in cases
[7:11 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Non of these countries have reached herd immunity.
[7:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: thus UK is now on usa high risk country
[7:12 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: 60% of those in hospital are with doube shots
[7:13 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: in our case the aim to is break the chain of spread with restricted movement (good) and forge ahead with the vaccination drive
[7:13 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: BUT society must play along
[7:13 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
All previous pandemic once reach Vaccination herd immunity will stop.
Eg. Smallpox, measles, mumps, diphtheria etc.
Most 100% vaccination.
[7:13 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: dun forget the basic mask up well + sick dun go work or go out
[7:14 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
? Where is the information?
[7:15 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
News say majority in hospitals are unvaccinated.
[7:18 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: It's proportional, SG is doing very well really, in terms of %
[7:21 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: ?
[7:23 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Strange how come there are contradiction reported in many mainstream media that full dose Vaccination results in lower hospitalisation experience in Singapore, Israel, US, EU.
How come UK so different outcomes?
Is it UK mix vaccines?
[7:24 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Change of topic, so I won't press this. https://news.yahoo.com/singapore-murder-schoolboy-charged-over-044846613.html
[7:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Worrying to read that the boy had a history of mental illness and wasn't treated properly.
[7:25 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: UK is mostly AZ, and with a very long gap between doses.
[7:26 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
US CDC reported 94% less likely to be hospitalised for fully vaccinated people.
[7:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Also infection rate very high in UK so likely to receive a much higher exposure to the virus
[7:27 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Can meet many people in 1 day who infect you, so harder for the body to fight it
[7:29 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
BBC report despite rising Delta variants infection, hospitals number did not rise.
Wonder did Reuters get their facts correct or not.
[7:33 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: I think the report is that 60% hospitalised had both doses. That's because a lot of people had both doses, therefore. Any people in hospital will have had both doses.
[7:33 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: If 100% are vaccinated, then 100% of people in hospital will have been vaccinated, if you see what I mean.
[7:36 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
๐คท just find it strange.
If I understand correctly, only 1 fully vaccinated is hospitalised in Singapore but got subsequently discharged.
Hospitalisation is a rare breed for those fully vaccinated - except those who use inactivated vaccines.
[7:37 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: So no one here in hospital is fully vaccinated? That's amazing!
[7:37 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: ๐ฑ๐จ
[7:38 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, I think it is because a) long gap between doses and b) they drink a lot in the UK which affects the efficacy of the vaccine, lol
[7:38 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Also AZ not so effective agains t variant D
[7:39 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Where did you see that stat? I'd like to share it
[7:39 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: When you get covid, depending on severity you either get hospitalized or quarantined.
[7:39 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Most are just quarantined cos they are not severely ill.
[7:39 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I read it long time back. Did not keep it
[7:43 pm, 20/07/2021] +Rama: Noted
[7:44 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Fully vaccinated none ever needed oxygen or icu
[7:44 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
No fully vaccinated were hospitalised.
[7:44 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
At that time.
[7:47 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[7:47 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gdnite Megan
[7:48 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why I urge the government make covid vaccination mandatory.
Because it can protect each and everyone.
100% vaccination can only be achieved by mandatory vaccination!
[7:49 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Sadly it won’t happen cos the full side effects haven’t been thoroughly studied so it won’t be mandatory yet.
[7:50 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I will continue to push and persuade.
[7:50 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: how to when some cannot take the mrna ...
[7:50 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: even with mrna got side effects which are not documented
[7:51 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then they take other non-mRNA vaccines.
[7:51 pm, 20/07/2021] +Thomas: Yes , UK first dose about 80% and they open as of yesterday. Fully vaccinated ? I am not sure of the percentage in UK
[7:52 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: that is where the grey area have to be sorted ... to be supported or not ...this is the tipping point
[7:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Thomas: once Norovax is approved which is non mRNA. Make it mandatory
[7:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: most of them have a gap of >1 mth
[7:53 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Lol, almost no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated
[7:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Thomas: Not true, they policy is to get high percentage vaccinated on first dose then second.
[7:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: ๐
[7:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes!
[7:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: not true or not i dun knwo but my contacts in UK mostly are on 2 mths -> 3 mths gap before 2nd shot
[7:54 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Of course there are exceptions
[7:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ah Heng: soooooo i say we should not model what others are doing but to craft the best approach
[7:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Caleb: So far no gov in the world has made it mandatory. Hmmmm
[7:55 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: 56% fully vaccinated, but most had 12 week gaps between doses so who knows.
[7:55 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Indonesia yes, France considering.
Middle East almost there.
[7:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes correct 12 weeks
[7:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Yes they have
[7:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Even France is mandatory depending on your job
[7:56 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: ๐๐ป๐๐ป
[7:57 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: When you have thousands suddenly infected that 3.2% will make lots of difference
[7:57 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Unvaccinated if infected can get long covid
[7:57 pm, 20/07/2021] +Boon: Dear REACH, we read of many reports of reputable and daily F&B being fined and shut because of Covid standard breaches (https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/eight-fb-outlets-closed-13-other-outlets-and-56-people-in-spore-fined-for-covid-19). Were converted KTVs (into food establishments) similarly actively monitored? If so, how did this KTV cluster happened? If not, did we not learned from the Korean and Taiwanese similar KTV-driven Covid reinfections?
[7:58 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: 1% of a million is 10k
[7:58 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: https://www.statista.com/chart/25326/obligatory-vaccination-against-covid-19/
[7:58 pm, 20/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: We don’t have that many ICU beds
[7:58 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: Let us join them!
[7:58 pm, 20/07/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Only 1000.
[7:59 pm, 20/07/2021] +Boon: If the focus is on the number of Covid cases in Singapore - and tying this to the rate of vaccination, what if re-infections continue even after vaccination program? Will SG continue to experience such open-shut-open-shut social restrictions if this policy woudl continue? Is this the optimal poilicy?
[7:59 pm, 20/07/2021] +Boon: F&B industry is being hit very hard. What shoudl they do?
[7:59 pm, 20/07/2021] +Ben: No it's not, I guess we cross that bridge if it happens, but a good question to raise now
[7:59 pm, 20/07/2021] +Samantha: those who visited 14 Haig road hawker centre the last week also need to take the ART?
[8:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +CQ: It says "you may". So unless you've been picked out for potential exposure, I guess it remains optional
[8:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
[8:01 pm, 20/07/2021] +Smiley face: To: Distinguished MTF, DMS and All Honorable Members
PRIORITY, PRIORITISING & PATRONISING (PPP)
Proposing a Priority Services System (PSS) to manage crowding and overcrowding in common places, goods and services.
Main:
Selected ECONOMICS activities like Clubbing, Cinema, Concert, F&B, Groceries and Shoppings. Proposing a three level determinant of Prioritising individuals using token for physical entry or reservation via phone calling or Internet booking.
Firstl level, the highest priority, will be given to patron who is fully vaccinated (other than sinovac), then partially vaccinated ones. Second level, the fully vaccinated Sinovac ones. Lastly the partially vaccinated Sinovac ones and the unvaccinated ones.
Government & Communities services, sports & leisure and education are excluded from this PSS.
In the good spirit of civic minded, by no means is a punitive act or a draconian one! It is a mitigation of Public risk and not compromising many from the eventual back to normalcy of lives and livelihoods! In a way it works out to be a 80-20 rule that benefits the majority while keeping the rest in mind respectively and importantly never to compromise the minority needs too!
It is a way to manage the effects of overcrowding, off-peak & peak hours at the same time a positive safety measure protocol, this case towards an endemic scenario!
Afterwords:
Sinovac recipients can only enter wet mkt, supermarkets and shopping at the FINAL hour before it CLOSES for the day!!!
For 24hr supermarkets, after midnite and 2 hour shopping limit reserved for all Sinovac recipients and the unvaccinated ones.
Quotations:
Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs.
-- Henry Ford
"occasional run in the tread,... Never to tear our social fabric into pieces ..!
-- Ian T
- Continuation from -
" Convergent of Facts and Reality Checks"
====
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