REACH 251 - HDB EIP & FTA CECA (SK)
06 July 2021 (11am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:46 am, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
[10:00 am, 06/07/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
In Parliament on Monday (5 July), National Development Minister Desmond Lee shared that nearly one in three Housing Board blocks and 14% of neighbourhoods today have reached ethnic quota limits, which helps underscore the importance of having the Ethnic Integration Policy (EIP) which was introduced in 1989 to ensure social mixing.
π’ What are your views on policies that aim to help maintain racial harmony in Singapore, such as the Ethnic Integration Policy? When do you think Singapore will be ready to not require the EIP to ensure social mixing?
Minister Lee added that about 21% households successfully appealed for a waiver of the EIP on their Housing Board flats last year, up from 14 per cent in 2018. Last year, the HDB received 500 such appeals, with more appeals coming from sellers from the minority races.
Minister Lee acknowledged that the EIP is an "intrusive social policy" with "rough edges" that may cause difficulties for some owners looking to sell their flats. But he noted that in these cases, the buyers would benefit from a lower resale price, and thus be less affected should they sell the flat in future.
Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh added in Parliament that the Workers' Party - which has lobbied for the abolition of the EIP since 2006 - said the WP aims to remove the EIP one day, but not before Singapore reaches a state of being race neutral, where such initiatives are no longer needed and agreed that the EIP be in place for now.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/nearly-1-in-3-hdb-blocks-hit-ethnic-quota-limits-eip-remains-relevant-necessary
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/successful-ethnic-quota-appeals-for-hdb-flats-up-to-21-last-year-from-14-in-2018
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spore-more-likely-to-achieve-racial-integration-with-eip-says-teo-chee-hean
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ethnic-housing-policy-should-be-abolished-but-not-before-spore-reaches-race
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[10:15 am, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-11-non-residents-flying-in-from-india-allowed-to-enter-spore-since
[10:15 am, 06/07/2021] +REACH: S'pore's approach in prohibiting offensive speech but not sharing of opinions on race, protects minorities: Shanmugam
Singapore's approach, in strictly prohibiting offensive speech on race, but not the sharing of opinions on these matters, gives greater protection for minorities by making it safe for them to speak about their experiences, said Home Affairs and Law Minister K. Shanmugam on Monday (July 5).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spores-approach-in-prohibiting-offensive-speech-but-not-sharing-of-opinions-on
[10:16 am, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Spike in race, religion-related police reports during year of Covid-19, GE2020: MHA
There was an increase in police reports made over racial and religious matters in 2020, with a number filed amid the Covid-19 outbreak and around the period of the general election, Home Affairs and Law Minister K. Shanmugam said on Monday (July 5).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spike-in-race-religion-related-police-reports-during-year-of-covid-19-ge2020-mha
[11:10 am, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Policies like EIP, CMIO etc all help to keep and maintain racial harmony in Singapore. However, don’t expect the races to be well bonded as such policies actually segregated and in a way undermine true Singaporean identity. It’s just boiling under the surface. The more we restrict racial discussion, the more likely misunderstanding might occur.
As for when we are ready to not require EIP. When we actually have a non-Chinese PM is my answer. My 2.14 cents
[11:15 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Good approach to ensure even distribution of culture across Singapore. It's easy to see this as racism, because it is to judge or restrict based on racial background, however, because it's the same for everyone it doesn't single out one particular race or another so doesn't qualify as a racist policy.
[11:15 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Not sure why there would be a need to remove the policy.....
[11:16 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Policy alone doesn't resolve or remove racism but it is required and helps enforce social harmony. Education and celebrating each other's racial background is the way to solve that problem.
[11:19 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: I don't think the Straits Times does much to help racial harmony. Just my opinion, but it seems to fuel the anti Indian feeling from time to time....
[11:21 am, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Haha I agree. But it does help get viewership I guess. Lol
[11:21 am, 06/07/2021] +Thomas: During our parent times, they call other races or description that is considered racist in this times. But all races knows what they are called and smile about it. Are we getting intolerant, being too sensitive or politically correct in this time ?
[11:22 am, 06/07/2021] +Peter T Ng: There was a question which needed answering:
Mr Iswaran provided the figures in a written reply to a question raised in Parliament by Workers' Party MP Dennis Tan (Hougang).
[11:33 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: I think the world has changed and what was considered friendly before has been used to denigrate now.
[11:34 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Or maybe people just smiled as a way to avoid conflict, rather than get upset about an offensive term.
[11:35 am, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Singapore is not racist compared to other countries but we must remain vigilant and supportive of ending racism.
[11:38 am, 06/07/2021] +Thomas: Remind me of Kumar the comedian where he makes racist jokes of all races but we laughed at it. Guess our very first approach is not be offended but treat it as other person is ignorant.
[11:44 am, 06/07/2021] +Boon: ππ and this was a time when society wasn't as sensitive to many things. Times have changed.
[11:50 am, 06/07/2021] +Thomas: The main issue here is when we see other races start to compete into economic spaces with each other and that is where we start to see other races as a competitor and differently. Our parent time, each race are good in certain trade and even our Chinese certain dialect group are good in shoe making and predominantly they are there. Cantonese are good in some cooking cuisine etc. All work together doing their trade which they are good at. In today's context, the economic scene is different. Now we have to recognise that all are equal and compete with each other base on merit and not on race. There will be some who lost out to other in the competition will use race as cudgel which will stir emotion. Only when we all recognise that we compete base on merit and be seen that the system are fair and not gear towards affirmative policy towards certain race, then we can achieve harmony
[11:53 am, 06/07/2021] +Boon: I do not think that our good Minister should view EIP, in an apologetic manner it seems, as "an intrusive social policy" just because home owners find it troublesome in their wish to sell their flats. It is not intrusive. If not for EIP and similar policies, what are the acceptable alternatives to foster a more racially balanced society then? We should recognise that people tend to gravitate to areas of same culture, same language - and there are already areas with such homogeneous concentration. Without active and balanced management of a racially open society like SG, we can end up with racial enclaves and back to colonial days of racial/religion divide.
[0:02 pm, 06/07/2021] +Boon: I believe that racial and religion tension can be reduced if gaps in income inequality are reduced, and there is a balance of meritocracy and emphathy as a basis for social mobility and representation. For example, academic education is not exactly an equitable means of societal mobility today, given the amount of $ needed. Therefore, in our society development and esp post-Covid, SG should put its action (and try to walk the talk) to further support and promote vocational/skilled professionalism as occupations of pride (versus academic qualifications).
[0:05 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Agreed
[0:05 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: ππ
[0:07 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Racial neutral is a myth.
2. Human by nature since born will distinguish themselves as the race they belong to, the culture they can identify with and will be comfortable and aspire to stay together with the same community in which they share the same common cultural values.
3. If the government don't intervene with policy to ensure the different races mix in harmony - people of same race will stick to their own and form racial enclaves.
4. Not intending to offend, but observing the animal kingdom - monkey group together with their own kind, elephants don't mix with rhino, black ants colony don't mix with red ants colony.
5. Humans like animal kingdom - tends to stick to their own kind.
6. Hence unless government come out with policies such as EIP to ensure a good racial mix - racial enclaves will happen as we observe this happening in so many countries.
7. Selling a resale flats in EIP for minorities is disadvantages because of their smaller group.
But government flexibility to help the minorities when the need arises will be better than to meddle with the bigger issue of ensuring racial mix - that contribute to racial harmony.
[0:33 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. To elaborate why race neutral is a myth:-
a. Different races wear differently.
b. Different races celebrate their festivals differently.
c. Different races eat their food differently.
d. Different races watch their TV program differently.
e. Different races speak their own mother tongue differently.
How will it be race neutral?
Though through government, business or community intervention where occasionally :-
a. Different races wear the same in school uniform or office suit.
b. Different races come together to celebrate each other festivals organise by the government.
c. Different races share food in an office or govt organise events.
d. Different races see the same TV program like national Day parade or Hollywood movie.
e. Different races speak a common language like English in school, work or in social settings.
So without government intervention to ensure good racial mix and racial harmony - how to bring about race neutral?
Hence race neutral is a myth!
[0:36 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Agree with this. Somehow it’s hard to remove racism totally. At best we just don’t address the elephant in the room.
[0:47 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: EIP is Very good to start with, but Seeing How many minority race people suffering to sell HDBs
The policy need to adjusted, given the current technology i Don't think it will be harder, to do that
For example
Currently in Bishan/tpy area Most of HDBs owned by Malay or India can not able to sell to Chinese, some people i know waited more than a year to sell, their flat. The Quota hardly changes even if one wait for 2 years.
So minority suffering
Instead they can adjust like
If given the particular month (or 3 months period) Quota will be applied, even if chinese seller unable to sell chinese
That way One grouo won't suffer and Minorities will get chance at least few times an year.
May be last time it's hard to do this way to Analyse which month need …
[0:49 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Agree with this. Accepting reality is What is neededππ½
[0:53 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Tbh I sold my 5 rm HDB to a minority last year. This is after so many viewings from majority race. I don’t think it’s about racial quota but more on the place, condition of the HDB and floor level etc
[0:59 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Which location?!
Are you from Bishan Tpy then i would say you made some owner luckyππ½
The quota would have opned for Others.
And Not true that its based on Place and condition.
Some estates are like always Chinese quota full for minorities
Bishan tpy. Bukit merah.. where as woodlands and tamp other way round usually quota filled for Malay buyers,
But majority estates minorities are finding hard to sell off. This is based on knowledge i have, you can recheck in HDB webiste randomly and see yourself
[1:00 pm, 06/07/2021] +Wilson Leong: Got it pro and con. Just got to maintain social harmony in HDB. Private you can see certain race occupy certain area. Government can't intervene as is free market
[1:02 pm, 06/07/2021] +Simon: π
[1:02 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Punggol. Not that prime area tbh but still have offers.
[1:02 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Haha
[1:03 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes Exactly
Thats why i mentioned
Just need to tweaked
EIP musr stay.
And as more and more Young singaporean Are inclining to live in Condos, Govt should do something.. I am.nit sure about How, they might have idea
[1:05 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: πpunggol
More indians and also other races (to be precise more PRs than Citizens...)
Again this is based on my limited knowledge in the field :)
I may not be 100% sure but mostly true :)
[1:08 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes an Indian bought my unit. But he’s definitely a citizen.
[1:17 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Okππ½
[1:32 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Min Ong and Min Tan giving statement for FTA and foreign manpower.
[1:36 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:-
Racial harmony is a very difficult issue.
Specific to EIP, why are neighbourhoods reaching their quota limits?
Is it due to our immigration policies or birth rates?
If due to birth rates then likely this is a longer term issue and quotas need to revise to better reflect the ethnic ratio.
If due to immigration, then gov can use it's data to project real change and transient changes and introduce baseline quota (to address real change) and floating quota to address transient changes.
[1:48 pm, 06/07/2021] +Boon: π€
[1:50 pm, 06/07/2021] +Boon: ππthanks!
[2:07 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. In other words, racial mix and racial harmony - cannot let nature take its course.
2. Government must actively intervene and properly manage them.
3. Attempt to assume race will automatically become neutral is a myth and will not happen.
4. In fact the opposite will happen, and racial friction will occur more frequently - if no attempt by government to bring different races together whether in school, work, play, community social interaction, and the place we stay.
[2:21 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Ceca does not allow unconditional entry of Indian professionals into Singapore: Ong Ye Kung
Singapore's ability to regulate immigration and foreign manpower is not affected by the India-Singapore Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (Ceca), said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ceca-does-not-allow-unconditional-entry-of-indian-professionals-into-singapore
[3:58 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We want to HEAR MORE from you!
We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Meganπ
[4:03 pm, 06/07/2021] +YT: It's about time the government refutes these claims. They have allowed these negative sentiments, comments and fake news to fester for too long.
[4:07 pm, 06/07/2021] +Anne: It is good that our G is explaining how all these work as it gives us more clarity. Because people don’t know what the G is thinking, that’s why there are speculations.
[4:10 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: 2 new locally transmitted COVID-19 infections in Singapore; both unlinked
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-jul-6-2-locally-transmitted-unlinked-moh-15163158
[4:10 pm, 06/07/2021] +Caleb: wah
[4:10 pm, 06/07/2021] +Caleb: how come Gov take so long to announce
[4:10 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
In Parliament today (6 July), Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said that Singapore's ability to regulate immigration and foreign manpower is not affected by the India-Singapore Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (Ceca), and the Government retains full rights to decide who can enter the country to live, work or become permanent residents (PRs) or citizens.
Debunking falsehoods about the free trade pact, which has come under fire on social media and by the opposition, Mr Ong emphasised in his ministerial statement that "Nothing in the agreement implies Singapore must unconditionally let in professionals, managers, and executives (PMEs) from India.".
π’ What are your views on the clarifications made in Parliament on FTAs and CECA? How do you think the clarification helps Singaporeans better understand how FTAs support jobs and livelihoods for Singaporeans, and that the CECA does not allow unfettered access of Indian nationals into Singapore?
Minister for Manpower Dr Tan See Leng also spoke in Parliament, and shared that there were 4,200 intra-corporate transferees working in Singapore last year, a number that has remained consistently small, with about 500 of these foreign employees brought in from the overseas offices of multinational corporations (MNCs) are from India.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ceca-does-not-allow-unconditional-entry-of-indian-professionals-into-singapore
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-ftas-and-globalisation-critical-to-singapores-survival-says-ong-ye
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/4200-intra-corporate-transferees-working-in-spore-last-year
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ftas-and-ceca-made-political-scapegoats-by-psp-falsehoods-need-to-be-corrected
[4:11 pm, 06/07/2021] +Caleb: if keep quietm means, something no right
[4:12 pm, 06/07/2021] +YT: Sometimes, what or how the G thinks is a secret because if disclosed, other countries will exploit and put us at a disadvantaged. However there are of course many who believes in full disclosure without thinking that such strategic matters are sometimes best to withhold and only on a need-to-know basis.
[4:31 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Does Ceca give Indian nationals a free pass into Singapore? 5 myths and facts about the trade pact
Singapore's ability to regulate immigration and foreign manpower is not affected by the India-Singapore Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (Ceca), said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/does-ceca-give-indian-nationals-a-free-pass-into-singapore-5-myths-and-facts
[4:31 pm, 06/07/2021] +Timothy Low: How do we ensure the management of a certain nationality does not favour his own countrymen and hire mostly his countrymen?
The reason why I asked is because I got a friend whose company management did the same thing to his company
[4:38 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Err this one is tough lol
Just like if the person favor in hiring a friend how you stop?
[4:41 pm, 06/07/2021] +jimmy chew: if he favors Singaporean, how do you stop?
[4:43 pm, 06/07/2021] +Timothy Low: If favours Singaporeans everyone should be happy right? All locals will get a job and unemployment rate will be Low
[4:46 pm, 06/07/2021] +Timothy Low: Will this deprive a local’s opportunity to be employed considering ceteris paribus?
[4:46 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: For the country to progress we need to hire the right person.
If there is a way to report unfair hiring would be good but serious there isn’t any
[4:47 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Favors Singapore have arh… Government jobs and most are well paid.
[4:48 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: No foreigner to fight with
[4:49 pm, 06/07/2021] +Anne: Nowadays in many job ads I do find that the ads did stress they prefer Singaporeans and PRs. Those companies that favour a certain nationality are probably decreasing. On the other hand, if a certain company favours a certain nationality, even if that company unwillingly hires a Singaporean, will that company treat that Singaporean well? If treat that Singaporean employee badly, then no point. So, I believe that our G’s soft approach in educating these companies has worked. I won’t say 100%, as there always will be some recalcitrant companies.
A Filipino friend of mine (PR) got hired as an IT professional in an MNC, and he’s good and very passionate in IT. That IT department has almost 100% Indians - he’s the only Filipino there.
Things have improved and we have to keep at it.
Or our G can encourage more local entrepreneurs to set up businesses and who are willing to hire locals.
[4:54 pm, 06/07/2021] +Laurent: Singaporeans should ask themselves why foreigners are needed to grow the economy.
To me Singapore has to continue to attract and it doesnt matter where they are coming from.
[4:54 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: The whole point of having a MNC is to bring in talent so that we can learn from. Not MNC here so that they can hire locals.
I work in a Japanese company, top celling forever not gonna be Singaporean. Not happy move, but you learn enough to move from those Japanese on top.
Various countries MNC bring in different culture and work methods.
[4:54 pm, 06/07/2021] +Laurent: As a multi cultural society, Singapore should move on and accept that a non-chinese becomes the PM
[4:54 pm, 06/07/2021] +Laurent: Otherwise the singapore pledge is just nice words which are not put into practivce
[4:55 pm, 06/07/2021] +Laurent: practice
[4:55 pm, 06/07/2021] +Rama: Tell that to the majority and the ruling party.
[4:55 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: If we don’t compete to have high protection from country for jobs. Think that’s what our neighbors has been doing… and did they do well?
[4:58 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Totally… as long as right person really race is not a problem.
Meritocracy if it works should be that way.
Anyway we having more and more mixed race babies in Singapore π soon the mix race babies will take over then the race line won’t be there anymore
[5:14 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The following are some points that PSP has overlook and wrongly harp on FTA CECA - to be the cause the lead to job loss for locals :-
1. Overlook the importance and benefits of FTA - as they open up opportunities in terms of market access, business and investment that will boost our business and increase the creation of jobs.
2. PSP wrongly attesting job loss to CECA - and did not realise disruptive tech are the one that disrupt jobs and business resulting in job loss for the locals.
eg. Digital Fintech - disrupt bank jobs.
Cloud - disrupt IT jobs.
AI, robots, drone, autonomous system - disrupt almost all industrial sectors - and reduce the manpower demand in almost every sectors
3. PSP see many Indians congregating in Changi Business Park and in some banks - because they are IT and tech jobs whereby most IT companies congregate - whereby many talents come from India and China which are good in IT - and draw conclusion that Indians take away local IT jobs.
Singaporeans business and jobs impacted by point 2 - will be misled into believing that indians from CECA are taking away local IT and bank jobs.
However through ITMs, Skillfuture, Train and Job Placement, Prevention of discriminatory job practices, plus other job creation, internship etc ---- transforming business and job placement --- has arrested the job loss among the Singaporeans - whether for youn graduates, mid-career workers and older workers.
[5:24 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. I always believe in building up Singaporean core - as the pillars in the workforce.
2. I also believe in bringing in foreign talents - that can bring values in which Singaporeans cannot create - so that more Singaporeans can benefits from these values in terms of investment, funds, skillsets, new products and services through cutting edge R&D etc.
3. And I believe in bringing in foriegner workers - in which Singpaoreans are not willing to do eg. in construction sectors, domestic helpers, nursing etc.
4. As a vibrant business hub and a cosmopolitan city - we must aim to protect our local workers - but at the same time embrace foreign talents or workers that bring us values, new areas of business, products, services or investments that we don't have as well as jobs that locals don't want to do but is needed by our Economy.
[5:25 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Changi Airport Terminal 4 could be used to process passengers from places with high Covid-19 risk
Travellers flying into Singapore from countries with high rates of Covid-19 infections may be processed at Changi Airport Terminal 4 in the future.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/changi-airport-terminal-4-could-be-used-to-process-passengers-from-places-with
[5:38 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: I work here and have no idea what to say about this. On one hand it's good that we are accepting travellers again. On the other, there is much higher risk of Delta+ and other variants that will slip in our defenses.
[5:39 pm, 06/07/2021] +Rama: Our own have to buck up and fast.
[5:40 pm, 06/07/2021] +Caleb: We going to have so many travelers from high covid risk counties?
[5:40 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: I actually think we are ready for non-chinese PM but politically maybe there's still some reservations.
[5:42 pm, 06/07/2021] +Rama: Elderly old fashion non English education or speaking amongst the majority have to open their eyes, hearts and mind. Otherwise, what LKY, LHL and HSK said will be repeated endlessly.
[5:48 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: 8 highlights from parliamentary debate on FTAs, Ceca
Health Minister Ong Ye Kung and Manpower Minister Tan See Leng delivered ministerial statements in Parliament on Singapore's free trade agreements (FTAs), such as the Singapore-India Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (Ceca), on Tuesday (July 6). Read the highlights here.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/8-key-highlights-from-parliamentary-debate-on-ftas-ceca
[6:03 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Depends on the deal you have with other countries .... if they do the same with their goods and services, like only buying local, then SG will be in trouble!
[6:03 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, agreed.
[6:04 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: When lose then blame the policy…
I am one of the lousy student in school. Didn’t do well for primary school, Poly(fail 7 subjects) GPA no need to see π€£. But still able to lucky go into university(NUS) through various scheme to bring those late boomers back on track.
But with various scheme, there is always a path to success. For those that have family issue, yes we should do more to address those. In terms of policy really I don’t see lacking, don’t expect to be spoon feed everything you fight for your own.
I paid my own school fee, without parents help. So I believe school fee is affordable. As compare to USA.
[6:05 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Not sure this is a big problem is it? Most people are Chinese heritage and China is our biggest partner. Makes sense to have a PM who understands that culture and has trust
[6:05 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Yes correct, this is the perfect solution π
[6:06 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Good. Totally makes sense
[6:07 pm, 06/07/2021] +Laurent: The most capable should be the one getting the job, no matter his/her ethnicity
[6:07 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Once we achieve 80% vaccine and maintain social distancing, Cleanliness etc we have to accept we will be opening up. By 2022 we will be 100% vaccinated and hopefully with boosters!
[6:07 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, and most capable from whose point of view?
[6:07 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Just to stretch the imagination further:-
1. Will US be ready to accept a Chinese as President?
2. Will Japan be ready to accept a Korean as their PM?
3. Will Korea be ready to accept a Japanese to be their President?
[6:08 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: Or a black man in the UK or France, even if they are of that Nationality.
[6:09 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Takes time… but yes they have their first black president..
Korean mayor
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhee_Kang
Really depends on the demographics… and if with the support of the majority.
Why not?
[6:10 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ben: 100% agree, if they have the support of the voters, yes!
[6:12 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Japan and Korea is different there is really very little migrants around… if the population continue to evolve why not? Not don’t have just when… on the needs of the people and we see each other as fellow countryman than race.
[6:14 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: We started with female head of state, super young head of state, over time race barrier.
All the new frontier, whether is it the best we can’t say only time will tell. But eventually it will happen.
[6:18 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: When the first US black president elected happen really, it was really emotional times π₯²
But they also voted the most white and craziest president π
[6:20 pm, 06/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
For that matter, to put things in perspective:-
1. Our President is a female Malay.
2. Our previous Deputy Prime Minister is an Indian.
3. Various Ministers and MOS are Indians, Malays.
[6:21 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: President errmmm…. Not elected π
[6:21 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: The rest π
[6:21 pm, 06/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: Having worked in MNCs throughout my career, my observation, is that the real issue we are facing, is the shrinking of the Global economic pie and a mismatch of skill-sets that has led us to be in the situation we are in today. To be fair, this is not an issue that only Singapore is facing.
Whereas in the past, when businesses were doing well, and the Global economy was growing exponentially, and most of us were able to turn a blind-eye to MNCs not only hiring, but creating positions (in SG), literally out of thin air, just to accommodate an executive from their home country, with pay scales and benefits that were on a whole different level (compared to us locals), no one really complained BECAUSE there seemed to be enough to go around. We, locals were still relatively well-paid compared to our local peers in other companies/industries, and there was never a threat of being made redundant. We locals were not replaced/displaced. The Company simply added to the overall (foreign) headcount because they could afford to.
Fast forward to 2008/9, post-GFC, and I saw how even the foreign MNC that I worked at - which was (and still is) a leading Financial Institution HQ'ed in Europe - terminated the last of the "Expat packages". No more blanket approvals for unlimited (and sometimes questionable) expenses on the company issued Credit card. No more car allowance that can easily pay for the monthly instalment for a 7-series with change. No more housing allowance that is equivalent to a few local employees' combined pay, before CPF. Cost cutting measures extended to literally counting (and limiting) the number of coloured print-outs of each individual employee.
There had never been more thought and conscious effort aka restrictions - due in part to Govt policy - on the hiring process today.
Is the Govt still not doing enough? Or is it simply a case of a shrinking Global Economic Pie that has left even Singapore, with a smaller slice to distribute around, and a workforce, that sadly, is not equiped with the pre-requisite technical expertise that the economy of today requires?
It is a fact that the importance and focus on AI/Technology has accelerated due to the pandemic. Ask ourselves how we are conducting discussions, interactions and transactions. This did not happen overnight, but Covid19 brought the timeline forward at least 5 years.
Then ask ourselves, of the roughly 200 participants in this chatgroup, how many are conversant in AI/IT/Coding/Crypto/Blockchain? How many can actually hold an intelligent conversation around these subjects/topics let alone "code". How many of our friends, relatives, children can? If not, what have we done to make sure we/they are prepard. And if the answer is "no/nothing", then is it any wonder why our lunch is being stolen by that "IT guy from India" - which by the way, alongside China, is the other top-producing nation of IT graduates/talents from a "Developing Nation" aka hungrier, cheaper worker, which the rest of the world is so sorely lacking in.
[6:25 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Really coding isn’t that hard…
I have a friend is now a AD in a government agency.
Background is math degree but got into cyber security. How he learn? By YouTube,redit,forum that was 10 years back.
We have the intelligence but do you have the interest to venture into grounds… when most young kid was into banking, accounting and finance. As well as oil and gas
[6:28 pm, 06/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: Agreed. It’s not that difficult. But the fact remains that the company can’t wait a few years for us to learn how to code when the need is immediate. π
[6:29 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: In the world of internet really any computer related skills can be found online for free…
[6:38 pm, 06/07/2021] +Rama: Well done and a fine example
[6:43 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Please join the Btech program… a degree for all engineering related. As we are very short on engineers.
It is offered in both NUS and NTU
[6:43 pm, 06/07/2021] +Ken: Side note for poly related degree only… some full time student convert so they can work and study.
[6:45 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:48 pm, 06/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Few years before A close friend of mine, discussed this issue with me. We both felt that the real issue is with education system, where super refining is there, its good for the Top tier pupils, but Its clearly demotivating avg and below avg Students. Why Despite Super stressful education System, singapore is depending on FTs for IT and Finance industries?!
Will MNCs hire A poly diploma holder In place of Bachelor Degree holder, Even with same Skills? Which one The MNCs choose?!
Why not every student ( plz read as majority..not each and every student)
Can have basic bachelor cert, ?!
Why only abv avg and elite able to Enter to Uni? (Plz lets not say after ploy also can do Uni.. is nt it a long path than directly doing Bachelor after plus2?!)
Why Not Give…
[6:50 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: End of the day the issue is the majority of workers and employees are just in medium to low tier jobs with average and below average wages. It’s the capitalist model of economy.
[6:51 pm, 06/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: We can just strive for the best.
[6:59 pm, 06/07/2021] +Smiley face: Producer of Public Goods - The HDB Journey
BACKGROUND:
In the first quarter of the twentieth century, under the clouds of Colonialism, the British housing scheme (SIT) was a slow progression and an unfulfilling attempts to house the population then into a proper fit. At the start of 1960, a plain white sheet approach of the young government then, the idea of "home ownership', a social safety net, started with HDB aggressive purpose-built flats to meet the demand of the growing population, quality of life and continuously improving well into the next 60 years! Today, standing taller, our modern homes/towns have won numerous international awards and commendations!
Space is always finite in Singapore; the success is in the creative design, detailed plan and…
[7:00 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
[7:01 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: Swimming, cycling and PE should be avoided after COVID-19 vaccination jabs: MOH
Strenuous activities such as swimming, cycling and running should be avoided for one week after the first and second doses of COVID-19 vaccination, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its latest advisory.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-vaccine-one-week-avoid-exercise-swimming-running-moh-15165086
[7:01 pm, 06/07/2021] +REACH: More support needed for ground-up initiatives that empower vulnerable groups: President Halimah
Ground-up initiatives play a key role in empowering and supporting vulnerable groups, and more support from the community is needed especially during the Covid-19 pandemic, said President Halimah Yacob in a Facebook post on Tuesday (July 6).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/more-support-needed-for-ground-up-initiatives-that-empower-vulnerable-groups
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