REACH 253 - View on new KTV cluster (SK)

14 July 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:42 am, 14/07/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

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Megan 😊

[9:55 am, 14/07/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

There were 26 new coronavirus cases confirmed as at noon on Tuesday (July 13), taking Singapore's total to 62,744. They included 19 locally transmitted cases, of which eight belonged to an emerging KTV cluster. 

📢  What do you think of the new cluster of community cases? How can we as a community continue to remain vigilant in the fight against COVID-19? 

The Ministry of Health (MOH) said that there is likely ongoing transmission at three KTV clubs and lounges, and they are investigating cases of COVID-19 infection among Vietnamese social hostesses who had frequented KTV lounges or clubs currently operating as food and beverage outlets. The premises have also been closed for 2 weeks to allow for deep cleaning and break any potential chain of transmission.

The number of new cases in the community has increased to 37 in the past week from 24 the week before. The number of unlinked cases in the community has also increased to 12 in the past week from five in the week before, MOH said.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/19-new-locally-transmitted-covid-19-cases-in-spore-including-8-linked-to-ktv

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/ktv-lounges-at-balestier-point-golden-mile-complex-and-textile-centre-probed-for

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ktv-covid-19-cluster-nightlife-businesses-reminded-to-be-vigilant-adhere-to-safe

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[10:32 am, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Very silly policy being so restrictive to EP holders. https://www.ft.com/content/8a35725f-2133-4c54-9a21-80b4c749057d

[10:33 am, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Huge cost and effort to get here, then either stuck here away from family, or stuck outside unable to get back. Why so strict?

[10:34 am, 14/07/2021] +Ben: People will leave and not come back and also tells others how bad it was.

[10:36 am, 14/07/2021] +Ben: I met two dad's who have been away from family for nearly 2 years already, both with small kids. Their families are in Malaysia and Australia.

[10:36 am, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Sorry not 2 years, 18 months

[10:59 am, 14/07/2021] +REACH: Dream Cruises ship returns to Singapore after suspected COVID-19 case on board

SINGAPORE: A Dream Cruises ship has returned to Singapore after a suspected COVID-19 case was found on board.

More: 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/dream-cruises-covid-19-case-returned-singapore-world-dream-15216710

[1:30 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Thougt that nightspots are close and not allowed to operate. Though these 3 KTV have been converted to F&B to get by - wonder how come social hostess are allowed to operate and interact with customers?

2. Hope there are no breach of social distancing.

3. These KTV spreading from 1 to the others - whereby social hostess operate and roam - reveal the real risk of spreading as we gradually open up.

4. Wonder are these infected social hostess fully vaccinated?

5. Wonder should more scientific safeguard be put in place - as we plan towards endemic :-

a. Should nightspots insist only 2 fully vaccinated jabs customers visit only.

- Note :- many religious institutions have insist this requirements.

b. All staff serving the customers must also be 2 fully vaccinated jabs.

c. Swab test maybe required for all visitors and staff.

6. The reasons why I propose fully vaccinated jabs when visiting these night spots are because :-

a. Many incidents of nightspots outbreak are due to close interaction, crowded places, drink, sing and eat without mask, customers and now even social hostess roam from 1 nightspot to another nightspot ---- increasing the risk of spreading the virus from 1 place to another. Eg. in South Korea, HK and now Singapore.

b. Out of 5.5 million people in Israel - only a "few hundred" fully vaccinated people are infected - and the fully vaccinated peopel who got infected only get mild or no symptoms.

7. Hence as we plan to mov into endemic - we should reduce our risk of outbreak - and the most potent solutions to prevent the outbreak are :-

a. 2 full doses vaccination

b. Put the face mask on

c. Maintain social distancing

[1:35 pm, 14/07/2021] +KS Foong: These operators claimed the hostesses are guests. Obviously they act blur!

[1:42 pm, 14/07/2021] +james: I thought they re-role to be waitressing staff 🤣

[1:46 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Lol

[1:49 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Note:-

1. 5.5 million Israel have 2 jabs 

But they :-

2. Don't wear mask

3. Did not maintain social distancing.

Yet only few hundred out of 5.5 million are infected only. But only 60% population are fully jab.

If Singapore have :-

1. Much higher fully vaccinated population eg. 80%.

2. Wear mask

3. Maintain social distancing

Then I think even as we move forward towards endemic - via calibrated manner - I think we still can prevent major outbreak.

[1:52 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also important for Singapore not to let up in keeping track of daily infection number.

The reason being - it keep us on our toes and it is our alert system - to warn us how well we are facing against our very stealth but rapidly spreading enemy.

[1:54 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Note :- 80% and above against contagious Delta variants is "herd immunity".

Israel, US, UK, EU etc have not reached 80% ,- but prematurely declare endemic.

We are only 41% fully vaccinated among our population.

Thus we cannot lower our guard.

[2:09 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Important to note:-

Despite rising alarm in Israel, US, UK and EU - as Delta variants hit their shores - they are still doing relatively well - though with rising infection number, their hospitalisation, ICU, oxygen support and death are still respectable - as compared to lower vaccinated countries like India, Indonesia and Malaysia.

[2:10 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So highly fully vaccinated population - is the main key to defeat covid and move towards endemic.

But wearing masks and maintain some sort of social distancing will still be required to keep the infection number down.

[2:13 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: Police should investigate why there are 'social hostesses' at these premises.  There's a saying in mandarin, "hang goat's head, sell dog meat".  All these operators are pretending to be F&B in order to open.  The government and police have all been fooled by these irresponsible, incorrigible, immoral merchants who thrive on immoral earnings and perpetuate social ills (drinking, smoking, casual paid sexual services).

[2:19 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also good to know, all the passengers and crew fully vaccinated with 2 jabs.

If they are, then see even if one infected - are those around these infected person go away unscathed.

If yes, fully vaccinated settings in big events work.

[2:19 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Don’t think they are fooled bah… 

So many Ktv around you think our police never do their job? 

They are there for the reason the exist.

[2:21 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also I noticed in the news that many passengers in the cruise walk around without wearing masks.

If the infection number is low among the passengers especially if many or all are vaccinated - then this could be a good endemic setting for us.

[2:21 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: This is really good, and shows how much we need solar. An enormous project like this only provides 7% of the PUB power required. Long way to go, but a good first step

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/tengeh-reservoir-floating-solar-farm-officially-opens-15217646

[2:22 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Better management of such places need to be in place, as history in TraceTogether I doubt those people which don’t want people to know where they been will scan it willingly.

Makes it harder for TraceTogether

[2:39 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Shouldn't allowed on unless vaccinated, kids and medically unable excempted.

[2:40 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Let's not rush to open nightclubs!

[2:45 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: I support this, if medically applicable: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/europe/france-greece-coronavirus-vaccine-health-workers-intl/index.html

[2:45 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Same for teachers and police

[2:59 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: Yes, these are unnecessary. In fact, those "spas" should also not be allowed to open, in my opinion.

[3:08 pm, 14/07/2021] +Thomas: This going around in whatsapp. If this fake, please track down and pursue by law

[3:08 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Err company very big… to filled up the page not surprising

[3:09 pm, 14/07/2021] +Thomas: But md and cio is high up

[3:10 pm, 14/07/2021] +Thomas: But a collection of this is driving some xenophobia

[3:12 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Not as uncommon as you think

[3:13 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: This is not even half the list 😅

[3:16 pm, 14/07/2021] +Thomas: True and good . But the list circulated aim is to stir emotion and xenophobia

[3:16 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Even cheif

[3:17 pm, 14/07/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

Thank you for your views so far, We want to HEAR MORE from you on today's topic.

Please be reminded to post content relevant to the topic that is being discussed.

Let's keep the discussion related to the topic robust and active.

Megan

[3:17 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: People understanding as you know.. thought those level all goes to them… but don’t know how much extend in the group 🤦🏻

Company so big

[3:17 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: 👍

[3:43 pm, 14/07/2021] +Elena Woo: I think mask wear and social distancing should be the new norm even if singapore is 100% vaccinated.

[3:44 pm, 14/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree... and the govt should continue to release the places that were visited by positive cases... these should not be removed.

[3:53 pm, 14/07/2021] +Valli: Agree 

It keeps us informed , & being cautious & follow the SMM implemented. 

Otherwise we will tend to become complacent & lax.

[4:47 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: At what point would we not need masks and social distancing?

[4:49 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Sure, but maybe we could also see the hospital numbers too. Do we really care if 500 people get a headache and no one is ill for more than a day?

[4:49 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Remains to be seen

[4:51 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: I think people need some indication. Zero cases for a week? A month? 90% vaccinated? What is the goal here?

[4:52 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

When the world pandemic is declare over by WHO - then we can dispense with masks and social distancing.

[4:52 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Very hard as mutation is still ongoing and vaccine have to be modified.

[4:53 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Agree

[5:05 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: That seems like a good starting point

[5:05 pm, 14/07/2021] +Timothy Low: 56 cases today sia

[5:05 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: 41 new Covid-19 cases in S'pore linked to KTV cluster, including passenger on Dream Cruises ship

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/41-new-covid-19-cases-in-spore-linked-to-ktv-cluster-including-passenger-on-dream

[5:07 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: Close all bars and KTVs!

[5:07 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

See.

Covid will just exploit a loophole and a major outbreak breakthrough.

[5:08 pm, 14/07/2021] +Wilson Leong: Total 56

[5:09 pm, 14/07/2021] +Timothy Low: Why do we still allow short term visit pass holder to come in sia

[5:09 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: They will just go underground. Which makes tracking/contact tracing even more difficult if something happens. 

When there is demand, there will always be supply.

[5:10 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Yup

[5:10 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Those people need job… you think close they will stop?

[5:14 pm, 14/07/2021] +Elena Woo: No point. Permanent mask wear.

[5:15 pm, 14/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Maybe permanent

[5:16 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: KTV are open but I can't watch my kid at football training?

[5:16 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: Weird rules.....

[5:16 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: how were 9 already in quarantine?

[5:17 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: KTVs are not in operation. These places "pivoted" to F&B after covid hit.

[5:17 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: oh lol I see. Well there's some initiative there!

[5:18 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ben: People who got covid must be feeling a little shy right now lol

[5:18 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: 🤣

[5:19 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Check Liao those there send for quarantine lor

[5:20 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: KTV lounge involved in COVID-19 cluster closed for disinfection, does not know who infected hostesses are

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/ktv-karaoke-lounge-cluster-covid-vietnamese-hostess-15211724

[5:20 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: He also stressed that his establishment does not hire hostesses, and he did not know who the infected Vietnamese hostesses were. Instead, he said they were likely patrons.

[5:20 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: lol

[5:21 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: 🤣 technically the are not hire by them… just allow to patrons only..

[5:23 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: "freelancers" 😝

[5:24 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: The worry now is whether any of these men had infected their school going kids and then they spread to the rest in schools/enrichment classes

[5:25 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: We will never know anymore, cos no more details reported. Full anonymity....

[5:25 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Did anyone mentioned the word " travel bubble" recently?

[5:26 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: i'm starting to think the jinx is real if it is

[5:26 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: Obviously lying. I know someone who personally knows 1 of the owners of the KTV involved (the Balestier one) ,, and they obviously know what they are doing exploiting the loopholes.

[5:26 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: They did!!!!! With Australia!!!

[5:30 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: 🤦🏻‍♂️

[5:35 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: They're lucky that the whole testing and daily case reporting is now totally opaque and confidential. Imagine if this happened when they used to report the full details including where they worked and when they were last in office..

[5:35 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Yes!

[5:35 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: 😨😱🤦‍♀️🤷‍♂️😔😟😞

[5:36 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: I am not interested to know who/their identity. More concerned whether the Govt thought about this and are considering taking preventive actions to  prevent a breakout in schools.

[5:38 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: But as I mentioned before, the whole process is now reactive. We have to wait for the pings to come from MOH via the phone or on our TT app. We can only wait for one wave of confirmed cases to trigger the next wave of SHN.

[5:42 pm, 14/07/2021] +Suma pamu: 56 new locally transmitted COVID-19 cases in Singapore; KTV lounge cluster grows to 53 infections

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-singapore-local-unlinked-jul-14-ktv-cluster-15217120

[5:47 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/letters-sent-to-gps-primary-care-providers-in-spore-amid-push-to-get-seniors-vaccinated?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg

[5:49 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Going underground- a loose tongue is all the authorities need to snoop on them.

[5:54 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: Having legitmate businesses under official supervision disincentivises illicit businesses. With CV19 spreading so easily/quickly, relying on loose tongues and delayed enforcement will likely be too little too late.

[5:58 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Someone will still spill the beans unknowingly to help the authorities.  All it takes is too much alcohol or a tiff amongst the patrons.

[5:58 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: Now we know why there were unlinked cases. People didn't want to step forward cos they patronized these social hostesses.

[5:59 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: I believe so

[5:59 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: this has been ongoing for more than a year already. Didn't just happen overnight

[6:15 pm, 14/07/2021] +REACH: [Sent by Gov.sg – 14 Jul]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 56 new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection. 

There are 4 imported cases today, who have already been placed on Stay-Home Notice or isolated upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 60 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh140721update

[6:18 pm, 14/07/2021] +Timothy Low: I hope the relevant authorities can:

- explain why such short term pass visitors are still allowed to come in

- are there loopholes for such ktv-turned-food establishments to engage social hostesses

- conduct spot checks on ktv lounges who engaged such social hostesses

[6:19 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: Quite obviously, the penalties are not punitive enough

[6:20 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Many ways to come in…

Can be study pass

Don’t you think why we have so many school setup) 🤣

[6:21 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: I like to think law enforcement has been keeping tabs on this.

[6:21 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Those here are not on short term ones Liao… 

And dancers and singers are skill pass under entertainment.

[6:22 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Can even come in as maid… no way you can stop don’t think too much

[6:22 pm, 14/07/2021] +Timothy Low: It was reported the social hostesses are short term visit pass holders

[6:22 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Oh?

[6:23 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: It never fails to amaze me time and again, that someone like me, who does not have extraordinary connections or even a very active social circle, is aware of such activities taking place, and yet, the Police/Authorities' inaction seems to suggest that they had been completely clueless

[6:23 pm, 14/07/2021] +Timothy Low: Short term pass visitors cannot work as maids lah. Visitors cannot work but maid got work permit

[6:23 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Overstayed?

[6:26 pm, 14/07/2021] +Timothy Low: The index case, a Vietnamese woman on a short-term visit pass, had gone to a doctor on Sunday with symptoms of an acute respiratory infection.

[6:26 pm, 14/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Can able to more info, how many Vaccinated?!

[6:28 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: Aside from these illegal KTVs, I have in the past, reported on a few pyramid schemes/scams - which eventually blew up spectacularly - to the police, To say that the police/authorities' response leaves much to be desired, would be an understatement of the year. Their response is almost always that there is no case, and when i press them to look into it in more detail, it will end up with them explaining to me why they feel that they are not in a position to take any action. 🙄

[6:30 pm, 14/07/2021] +KS Foong: Fully agree

[6:31 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Existing COVID-19 dine-in rules to remain despite 'potentially huge’ KTV lounge cluster: Ong Ye Kung

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-ktv-lounge-cluster-dine-in-rules-ong-ye-kung-15218976

[6:32 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: 🤣🤣

[6:32 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Meeting friends for dinner next week

[6:32 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Tolong pls quarantine yourself if you went ktv

[6:32 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: With such cluster outside please don’t even is allowed

[6:32 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Thanks

[6:33 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Don’t create another side cluster eating with friends or family is not a must

[6:33 pm, 14/07/2021] +StanThe KTV infected appear to be ‘damn free nothing to do players’, might have to check the red light districts. Now this kind of infection will be like mlm on steriods!!

[6:35 pm, 14/07/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Must dictate all nightspots to check in with tracetogether token or apps in future.

This will help contact tracers to track in case got outbreak.

Else nightspots cannot open.

[6:36 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: i think the key is really to form social bubbles with like-minded friends/family whom you can trust to be responsible. A blanket ban would be overkill especially given all the other measures in place.

[6:37 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Agree…

[6:39 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: If it’s allowed then why can’t we eat with friends within the limit? You huan loh?

[6:40 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Just saying… you have your choice… chill

[6:40 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Might as well don’t say

[6:41 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Personal opinion, is open to talk here no?

[6:42 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes opinions are like that

[6:43 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Hence also my opinion that you not say

[6:43 pm, 14/07/2021] +Ken: Sure … 🤷🏻‍♂️

[6:46 pm, 14/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:46 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Thanks

[6:47 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Guess the AG chambers know why cannot proceed further!?

[6:47 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Yes!

[6:48 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Minimise outside of immediate family.

[6:49 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: the buck stopped at the IO (Investigating Officer) stage .. they didn't even go beyond filing the case in the cabinet

[6:49 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: Police has no teeth. This can't. That can't.

[6:50 pm, 14/07/2021] +CQ: There's a longstanding "joke" that police won't do anything unless it's theft rape or murder... These days one more category, unless it appears on social media...

[6:51 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: 1 time, there was a group of 7 clustered together right in front of the 2 police officers in clear violation of safe distancing rules. They pretended not to see, I went up to 1 and pointed it to her (it was a female police officer). She smiled nd went "heh heh ,.. they taking photo" .. True story

[6:53 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: I hope they round up all those so-called hostesses and close those so-called KTV-turned-eating places that still have hostesses.  Extra service with your food. So entrepreneurial.

[6:53 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Lame!?

[6:54 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: 😨😱🤦‍♀️😔😟😞

[6:54 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: 😨😱🤦‍♀️😔😟😞

[6:55 pm, 14/07/2021] +Joseph Ong: To be fair, i think the Govt might have been throwing them a lifeline by closing one eye. But now that they had clearly violated the rules and caused an outbreak, the authorities should come down hard on them

[6:56 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: If true,!?

[6:57 pm, 14/07/2021] +YT: These places are run by gangs. They don't need lifelines. They will just do other things if they don't have the KTVs. Other things like gambling dens, drug running, loan sharks, etc., They are very good at surviving. Maybe even robbery or burglary. They don't deserve sympathy if they want a fast buck and don't want to work hard like every one else.

[6:58 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: 5-persons dine-in rule remains unchanged for now: Ong Ye Kung

https://sg.news/?p=584242

[6:58 pm, 14/07/2021] +Rama: Agree

[7:00 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Huh?

[7:00 pm, 14/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[7:00 pm, 14/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gdnite Megan

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