REACH 250 - Views on Singapore’s approach on differentiating between the vaccinated and unvaccinated as we move towards the new normal of living with the virus (endemic COVID-19)? (SK)
05 July 2021 (11am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! π
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[10:00 am, 05/07/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
To keep the population safe from Covid-19, it is best for 70 per cent to 80 per cent or more of the population here, including close to 90 per cent of the elderly, to be vaccinated against the disease, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on Thursday (July 1).
π¬ What are your views on Singapore’s approach on differentiating between the vaccinated and unvaccinated as we move towards the new normal of living with the virus (endemic COVID-19)?
In the interview, Mr Ong said that perks for Covid-19 vaccinated individuals, such as being exempt from pre-event testing for certain events, are not meant to be discriminatory.
Rather, this differentiation between the vaccinated and unvaccinated is necessary from a public health standpoint as Singapore moves towards creating a sense of normality with endemic Covid-19 as an end goal.
The authorities see this differentiation in terms of risk, whether someone has a higher or lower risk of getting infected and passing on the virus, Mr Ong said.
He also said that the wearing of masks will still be key after Singapore transitions to a new normal of living with endemic Covid-19, and may well be among the last of the measures that will be shed.
The Ministry of Manpower (MOM), the National Trades Union Congress (NTUC) and the Singapore National Employers Federation (SNEF) also issued an advisory on Friday (July 2), stating that employers should not make Covid-19 vaccination mandatory for staff, but those in higher-risk settings may make vaccination a requirement as part of company policy.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/st-exclusive-ong-ye-kung-hopes-that-close-to-90-of-seniors-in-singapore-can-be
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/perks-for-those-vaccinated-against-covid-19-not-meant-to-be-discriminatory-ong-ye-kung
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/employers-in-higher-risk-work-settings-can-require-staff-to-be-vaccinated-mom-snef
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[10:13 am, 05/07/2021] +Peter T Ng: I see it as a classic issue of free riding, and the reality eventually of not differentiating the two.
We can only mobilise the convicted or those who are willing to follow.
Politically I don't think it's tenable to provide long term carrot to the vaccinated, only to be seen as 'discrimination' to the non-vaccinated-by- choice.
[10:39 am, 05/07/2021] +YT: Personally, I am fine with those who choose not to vaccinate themselves.
However, I take issue with those who don't want to be vaccinated and decide that they would take down others with them by sprouting negative/fake news, fear mongering, etc ,
There are plenty of such people around and I hope something can be done to shut them up so that they dont scuttle the national effort to vaccinate the majority of our population.
[10:43 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: I agree and appreciate your no-nonsense communication!
[10:45 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Because the vaccine is not 100% immunity we still need to be careful, so separating vaccinated and non-vaccinated makes sense in public spaces etc. I do think we should exempt under 12's from the rules, and let the parents choose.
[10:46 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: I don't seem the as 'perks' in all honesty, it's normal life. However if it has to be presented that way so be it.
[10:47 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: I'm happy to wear a mask even though I'm vaccinated. Small price to pay to ease the opening up. Maybe at some point we can remove them when in recreation outdoor spaces (park, beach, canals) after 80% vaccinated.
[10:48 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Hoping quarantine free travel for those vaccinated and who also test negative can be reduced to 5 days or removed entirely, maybe first for SC/PR then opened up depending on location arriving from.
[10:49 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: End of the year seems a very long way off and unnecessary IMO. Vaccinated and multiple negative tests seems like a zero risk isn't it?
[10:51 am, 05/07/2021] +Smiley face: A new concern:
With Europe + USA opened, it might cause further mutations of DELTA + GAMMA + (LAMBDA) strains into yet unknown variants emerging from potentially massive infections!
So uncharted path and very worrisome!
[10:54 am, 05/07/2021] +Boon: It is the MOH (and the growing societal) discrimination between Sinovac and non-Chinese vaccines like Pfizer (till date) that is an issue. Why should those who are injected with Sinovac still be required to do pre-event testing? If Sinovac is not good enough for Sg, why make it available for injection?
[10:59 am, 05/07/2021] +Sam: There is no free riding. You win some and you lose some. By "free riding", those people are risking their health and life. I wish them good luck as the high percentage of vaccinated still have transmission risk and pass it on to the unvaccinated.
[11:10 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Everyone has a choice to take a highly effective vaccine for free (Pfizer/Moderna) so why put everyone people at risk because of prejudice against mRNA vaccines? If people want Sinovac instead they do this with knowledge of the consequences. It is their choice, no one is forcing them to do it.
[11:11 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: *other people at risk
[11:20 am, 05/07/2021] +Boon: Why should people who choses a supposedly "less powerful" vaccine on tried and tested methods (versus "more powerful" vaccines on new untested technology) be seen to put people at risks? Why should a choice become a prejudice?
[11:21 am, 05/07/2021] +Boon: Isn't this reasoning a slippery slow to discrimination - because my choice is different from the majority is therefore a "bad" choice that puts everyone else at risk?
[11:26 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: It's based on study, trials and evidence. If Sinovac was as effective as Moderna it would be excellent because we would have an additional vaccine to use in the national program. No one wants Sinovac to be less effective. It just is.
[11:27 am, 05/07/2021] +Smiley face: "tell that to the 1 billion chinese who are now mask free..."
a comment by netizen othet than China nor Singapore.
[11:27 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: The mRNA technology has been tested on hundreds of millions of people. It's not untested.
[11:28 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/02/china/vaccines-sinovac-sinopharm-intl-hnk-dst/index.html
[11:30 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: I trust the news 100% either by the way. Have to filter through the noise, the spin and the agenda to find the facts (numbers!) and how to interpret those.
[11:30 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: I do suppose all vaccines, and recognise people have a preference, which is usually based on a prejudice if they are ignoring the data.
[11:31 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: *support all vaccines
[11:31 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: If we have the world's most effective vaccine available for free. Why not use it? Only for those medically not fit.
[11:32 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Once we reach 80%+ moderna/pfizer vaccination then I think it doesn't matter if the other 20% took Sinovac.
[11:32 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: We don't need to distinguish at that point.
[11:51 am, 05/07/2021] +Boon: Just to continue this discussion a bit more - aren’t there now countries with new Covid flare ups despite using non-Sinovac vaccines? If the new vaccines are unable to better defend against Covid, then, isn’t the risks similar for all people regardless of the brand and type of vaccines they have taken? Therefore, to be consistent, shouldn’t all people be pre-event tested because all the current vaccines are still not effective enough…?
[11:54 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: It's not binary. Yes there are cases in UK where they used mostly Astra Zeneca, also not an mRNA vaccine. AZ is not recognised by the EU so people with that vaccine are not given the same freedoms as those with mRNA vaccines. Even mRNA vaccines are not 100% so people will still get infected. The numbers will be much smaller though and the cases not as serious. mRNA is shown to be signifianctly more effective than non-mRNA.
[11:54 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: I don't object to pre-event testing by the way, for everyone.
[11:55 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Maybe there is a cost problem, not sure why some people don't have to do it, regardless of the vaccine.
[11:55 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: The new vaccines are much better able to defend against covid, evidence shows.
[11:56 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Risks are not similar between mRNA and non-mRNA vaccinated people.
[11:57 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Just because some people get infected after an mRNA vaccine it doesn't mean the vaccines are all the same.
[11:58 am, 05/07/2021] +Boon: This is a single point in time and the effectiveness is still being battle-tested. What about longer term health effects from powerful medicines? It’s just like flu. Even mild cases tend to be treated by powerful antibiotics till new flu strains are now becoming resistant to antibiotics. This sets of a cycle where we constantly need more and more powerful medicine to battle some virus - would this cycle come at an expense of our long term health? I am not saying no to powerful medicine - proportionality, timeliness and calmness to escalate treatment is important.
[11:58 am, 05/07/2021] +Boon: Me too
[11:58 am, 05/07/2021] +Ben: The mRNA vaccine doesn't work like anti-biotics.
[0:00 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: That is what is so revolutionary about mRNA medicine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8053359/
[0:01 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: "Unlike traditional whole virus vaccines, mRNA vaccines can be quickly and relatively easily adjusted to target new variants. The mRNA platform takes advantage of mRNA translation, part of the natural process that cells use to turn genes into proteins."
[0:02 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: “The mRNA vaccines are such amazing technology because they are so simple—it is just the code for the spike protein,” said Akselrod. “In theory, changing that code to reflect the circulating spike protein should produce immunity to the variant.”"
[0:02 pm, 05/07/2021] +Boon: Well…https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.livemint.com/news/world/covid-success-stories-australia-israel-impose-new-curbs-as-cases-of-delta-variant-surge/amp-11624626303780.html
[0:03 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, these vaccines are not 100% effictive. Therefore in a population of 50m fully vaccinated, 5m are still at risk.
[0:04 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: In SG we 'locked-down' after around 150 cases over a week. That's 0.00003% approx.
[0:04 pm, 05/07/2021] +Boon: The point is MOH “discriminatory” approach of those injected with Sinovac and those with non-Sinovac. In view that all vacicines are still not very effective against the ever changing virus, why not everyone gets pre-event tested?
[0:05 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: it's not discriminatory. It's using evidence to show there is a higher level of risk from Sinovac vaccinated people.
[0:06 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: mRNA are very effective, 90%. Why do you say they "are still not very effective"?
[0:06 pm, 05/07/2021] +Boon: Yet folks in other countries with non-Sinovac are still being infected.
[0:06 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: yes, and as I've said, they will continue to be, but with much lower transmission and much lower symptoms.
[0:06 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Going round in circles a bit now....
[0:07 pm, 05/07/2021] +Boon: It should not be A vaccine versus B vaccine, but whether is both sufficient against the virus - and therefore, for our controls to remain vigilant regardless of A or B vaccine.
[0:08 pm, 05/07/2021] +Boon: We have shared our views ππ
[0:08 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Ok, I can see you won't be swayed by data! Happy to let this one go :)
[0:14 pm, 05/07/2021] +Boon: It’s about whether would we let our guard down just because we think A is better than B, when reported news shows it is still not that great against the virus.
Happy to close on this note too :)
[0:15 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, I see your point about this. Not disagreeing and respect your PoV!
[1:15 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: ππ£️ Pfizer is useless now and obsolete in presence of mutations on spike gene. π€π³
From g Dr Oon Chong Jin, WHO consultant who tested the hepatitis vaccine here for safety and responsible for it being given to babies here for more than 30 years.
I have sent by emails to Ong Ye Kung, Gan Kim Yong and Lawrence Wong
1) the WHO (SAGE) report on Sinovac giving a good safety and efficacy report which was sent by a colleague in WHO.
This was copied to Tan Chorh Chuan, Kenneth Mak, John Wong, Vivien Balakrishan & Ng Eng Heng ... all my medical students except Kenneth Mak
2) the scientific reason the mutations on the spike protein has altered the antigenicity.
Result vaccinated can’t recognize B1617 Indian mutant million millions in India.
I suggested stop mRNA as the mutant has gone through our Pfizer vaccinated front liners in six hospitals, airport staff and school children.
Only a killed complete.
Virus with all its seven antigens can still b recognized even when one antigen affected by mutation.
Pfizer is useless now and obsolete in presence of mutations on spike gene.
Shown last night on Channelnewsasia & CGTN that China vaccines can overcome Indian mutants
3) emphasized release and use fully inactivated virus like Sinovac or Sinopham ... same manufacture.
100% and not 60% because 40% infected once mingling starts will.
40% infected and many will die.
4) Yestersdy, I got a nice reply from Ong Ye Kung but no mention of Sinovac
Then saw Kenneth Mak’s reply in ST waiting for WHO report and vaccinating children with Pfizer
I then sent my simplified summary of the WHO Sinovac report to the three Ministers together with the circulating advisory from many doctors and specialists to parents not to have their children vaccinated with Pfizer because disease is mild
5) I drew up a dose schedule for over 60yrs,12yrs & above and for babies a lowered dosage
Sinovac is safe given to 300million but less in children Ong Ye Kung thanked me for views
https://www.memc.com.sg/specialist/dr-oon-chong-jin-gabriel/
You are free to share with those interested
[1:18 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: That’s what I say mah.. that’s why don’t mind taking China vaccine π
Cause mRNA only coded a small fragment… if the virus mutate that portion the whole vaccine becomes useless π
[1:19 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Also why we need to update flu vaccine every now and then π
[1:19 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: Awaiting response from MOH/MTF
[1:21 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: I didn’t take sinovac mainly due to not covered by Singapore government if any complications
π
Anyway all vaccine are not full prove.
[1:21 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: But this is from? Article or source?
[1:22 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: Agree
[1:23 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Then again if we don’t take what are the ways we can let people travel again..
Quarantine will mean no more travel for holiday.
[1:23 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: Dammed if we do/if we don't @
[1:24 pm, 05/07/2021] +Caleb: Ya lor
[1:25 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: It is lucky that only happen recently… but days for us to travel with a passport might become history…
Will end up with zones, when crossing region quarantine will be required
[1:27 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Also means labour crunched in all sectors that highly depended on migrant workers.
[1:27 pm, 05/07/2021] +Vivian: no verification for this piece of news. please don't circulate such news without verification
[1:28 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Was about to forward then looking for source.. lol…
But only his name and email. In the end not written by then π€£π
[1:32 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: Vaccinators & nurses at Bukit Timah Community Club not paid salaries despite working 14-hour shifts
https://sg.news/?p=577781
[1:32 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: ππ
[1:35 pm, 05/07/2021] +Vivian: no offense thou. just that too much of such news will affect how people react to the vaccine
[1:36 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Nah it’s true.. without verification… is the problem of WhatsApp..
Anyway concept wise is correct π
[1:36 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: People overseas allegedly raise $50,000 for British man in S’pore who refused to wear mask & now stuck in ‘oppressive legal regime’
https://sg.news/?p=577804
[1:37 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Based on my understanding… but I am not doctor.. π
Any doctors here?
[1:38 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
To date :-
1. Majority of mainstream media has reported that Sinovac and sinopharm have reported that they are too many breakthrough and their efficacy is very low against many variants especially Delta variants.
2. A good number of countries have see very big breakthrough in infection when using both vaccines.
Some countries have rejected these vaccines despite being offered.
3. China medical expert openly said that these vaccines need booster to make it more effective.
They are exploring using mRNA specially working with BioNTech that will be ready by end July or Aug.
4. Few countries are exploring the recommendation to mixed Sinovac and sinopharm with mRNA vaccines.
Is this doctor credible?
[1:40 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Our panel of medical experts in infectious disease has debunked such views supported by other medical experts in this field.
How come such news have lend credential again?
[1:40 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Mixture is the best of both worlds…
Hence some countries mixed vaccine rather than single companies. Problem is no company with recognize this as no one do cross study on vaccine mixing hence efficacy cannot be determine.
If adverse effectives we blame which companies vaccine? Or the country that allowed mixing?
[1:42 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3
[1:43 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-evaluating-mixed-covid-19-vaccine-schedules-begins
[1:43 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-south-korea-to-run-mix-match-vaccine-trial-14849880
[1:44 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-vaccine-efficacy-not-high-gao/2021/04/11/dafe3ab6-9a8f-11eb-8f0a-3384cf4fb399_story.html
Effectiveness of Chinese vaccines ‘not high’ and needs improvement, top China health official says
[1:44 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/who-approval-chinese-covid-19-vaccines-sinovac-sinopharm-1812733-2021-06-09
Why WHO approval is not enough for Chinese Covid-19 vaccines
Recently, countries such as Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain and Philippines have expressed concerns over the approval granted to Chinese vaccines and their efficacy.
[2:01 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Part 1 - Is our Government Policies entering into Endemic State - discriminatory or guided by Math and Science
1. Our Government effort to tackle and control this covid-19 must be based on math and science.
2. Conversely, our Government policies to finally manage covid-19 as mild flu - to enter into Endemic Stage must also be anchor on math and science - because the covid virus - thrive on those that ignore math and science.
3. Math - refer to transmission rate, infection rate, hospitalisation rate, ICU rate, oxygen support rate and death number.
Science - refer to how effective is the various vaccines in stopping the covid-19 from infection, from spreading, from staying asymptomatic, refrain from being hospitalised due to symptomatic, refrain from being succumb to illness that need oxygen support, ICU and in some unfortunate cases - death.
And Science - R0 refer to transmission rate that will slow and stop covid-19 spreading when it reaches herd immunity - whereby when the majority of the population is fully vaccinated - the covid-19 cannot easily jump host to infect the population - and restricted to a small group - without resulting in an outbreak into a big cluster.
4.By putting the above background into context, we will examine in later Parts to determine whether our Government Policies entering into Endemic Stage - is "Discriminatory" or based on "Math and Science"?
[2:29 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Part 2 - Why fully vaccination must reached 80% to be effective (known as herd immunity - whereby covid-19 cannot easily jump host). And high vaccination rate among the elderly of 90% (in fact 100% will be the best) - to protect against elderly from serious illness.
1. Covid-19 in particular Delta variants has a transmission rate of 1 to 8 (ie. 1 person can easily spread to 8 person).
2. According to UK study, Delta variants with such R0 high transmission rate - 80% and above population need to be fully vaccinated before covid-19 can be effectively curb from spreading - and Country can enter into Endemic Stage (whereby covid-19 can be treated as mild flu - as they will not able to effectively spread).
3. No sizeable Countries in the World has reached 80% fully vaccinated - not even Israel, UK - except their adult population has high vaccination rate (but not the whole population).
Hence we still can see some increase in infection when the Delta variants hit their shore.
But Countries who have predominantly adopted mRNA vaccines - notably Israel, UK, US, EU - has seen good control of infection number, low hospitalisation, ICU, oxygen support and death cases --- despite the Delta variants causing some breakthrough in infection number.
(Note :- Unlike Countries who uses Sinovac and Sinopharm - has seen a big breakthrough with greater number of infection number, hospitalisation and even death eg. in Indonesia where double digits doctors die even when fully vaccinated with such vaccines).
4. US, UK and EU countries have opened up their Economy more bravely even though Delta variants has hit their shores.
Despite some rising number infected, these Countries noted that hospitalisation and death remain relatively low.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/britain-gambles-on-reopening-despite-the-delta-variant
UK model of opening into endemic stage is a good model to watch by Singapore as UK adult have 62% fully vaccinated rate.
5. Noting that UK adult 62% fully vaccinate rate - is still far from whole population 80% fully vaccination (to achieve the herd immunity).
6. But UK subsequent outcome based on their reopening "Freedom Day" -- is a good model for Singapore to watch - as UK has high Delta variants like us --- and we can closely monitor - how UK perform as they declare Endemic stage with just 62% adult fully vaccinated.
7. Hence is our Government target of 80% fully vaccination and elderly 90% fully vaccination ---- guided by Math and Science?
8. My observation is - yes --- whereby our Government target to achieve before entering into Endemic Stage - is achievable, and target set is over and above with "Abundance of Caution" to prevent more transmissible variants from infecting our population.
9. I applaud the Government setting the high bar of vaccination target which is achievable.
10. However, I will like to hear more about what measures the Government will adopt to coax the most vulnerable group - especially the Elderly to get themselves vaccinated - as this group has the greatest risk to be fallen ill by covid - short of imposing "Mandatory Vaccination".
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[2:30 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/britain-gambles-on-reopening-despite-the-delta-variant
Britain gambles on Covid-19 reopening despite the Delta variant
[2:31 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-killed-26-indonesian-doctors-in-juneat-least-10-had-taken-chinas-sinovac-vaccine-11624769885
Covid-19 Killed 26 Indonesian Doctors in June—at Least 10 Had Taken China’s Sinovac Vaccine
[2:32 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Too much, they are irresponsible I think. Unnecessary to open as rapidly as this.
[2:34 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
We just watch how they perform.
We don't need to follow them.
They decided to go maskless.
Our government say wear mask until the pandemic end.
[2:59 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Part 3 - Is the dual track discriminatory or based on "Math and Science" - in getting population to play their part in vaccination to achieve our vaccination target of 80% and elderly at 90% - as we slowly enter into "Endemic Stage"?
1. This last 1 week - we have seen a very encouragin outcome in controlling this Delta variants wave -- as we have seen single digit community cases.
2. In other words, the push to slowly and gradually move ourselves into Endemic Stage is imperative - through calibrated and cautious step-by-step reopening.
3. To reach the 80% whole population fully vaccinated state is a no mean feat.
3. Firstly, age 12 years and below cannot be vaccinated yet - this means we have to minus a sizeable portion of the population.
4. Thus we have to depends on the mainly adult population, elderly and older children 12 years and above to fully vaccinate - to reach our target 80%.
5. Excluding those medically ineligible to vaccinate, the remaining pooulation will play an important role to get ourselves vaccinated to achieve the 80% target (including those who refused to vaccinate or anti-vaxx) --- a tall order indeed.
6. Only when we can achieve total population of 80% full vaccination and 90% elderly full vaccination ---- we can then declare ourselves Endemic --- as we will have step into a "Safe Harbor" not threaten by future covid outbreack.
7. How to achieve this vaccination target? We need dual-track, one for the vaccinated and one for the unvaccinated - for the following reasons :-
a. To soft nudge and persuade those who refuse to vaccinate and the pure anti-vaxx to "Enlighten" - and suddenly discover that vaccination is good for them and not to harm them ---- protect themselves and protect others.
b. Math and Science shows that when fully vaccinated gather together - covid and more transmissible variants including Delta variants - are unable to spread easily. (This can be shown in Singapore context and those in UK, US, Israel and EU --- which uses predominantly mRNA vaccines).
c. Thus by putting more restrictive measures on those unvaccinated group such as more pre-events test, events reserved only for the vaccinated etc - is not purposely to indiscriminate them, or inconvenience them --- because math and science prove this should be the way in order not to trigger a massive outbreak.
(In Singapore context, Delta variants outbreak are largely trigger by unvaccinated people in hospitals, airport, food courts and even infect vaccinated people).
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[2:59 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Watch live: Finance Minister Lawrence Wong addresses Parliament on Covid-19 support measures
Finance Minister Lawrence Wong will give an update in Parliament at 3pm on Monday (July 5) on the support measures for businesses and workers affected by the latest Covid-19 measures.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/watch-live-finance-minister-lawrence-wong-addresses-parliament-on-covid-19-support
[3:16 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:-
We have come a long way in fighting off covid and now finding a safe way to live with the virus.
For as long as the measures are for the larger good of Singapore, then if there has to be some difference in treatments between the vaccinated and unvaccinated, we have to learn to accept them.
If there's 1/3 population who choose not to be vaccinated, there could be sizeable clusters blooming in the community.
And when this happens, our tourism and businesses suffer.
So the unvaccinated should not feel that the measures are discriminatory against their choice.
Such differences are put in place to keep Singapore open, viable and competitive.
[3:25 pm, 05/07/2021] +Jerick Tan: Ok verified. Dr Oon did indeed say that, according to ST. Interesting to see different doctors debating. Shows that it's not so simple. Both doctors have valid arguments, just that they each decided to give more weight to different factors
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/infectious-diseases-expert-david-lye-calls-out-misinformation-about-covid-19
[3:25 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Govt will conduct review of Covid-19 response, COI not an appropriate format: Teo Chee Hean
There will be a wide-ranging review of the Government's Covid-19 response after the situation has stabilised, to allow Singapore to learn valuable lessons and improve its response for future pandemics.
Senior Minister Teo Chee Hean announced plans for an After Action Review (AAR) on Monday (July 5) in response to Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh, who had asked if the Government will commit to setting up a Commission of Inquiry (COI) to review its response to Covid-19.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/govt-will-conduct-review-of-covid-19-response-coi-not-an-appropriate-format-teo-chee-hean
[3:26 pm, 05/07/2021] +Caleb: Ok. Let's jab both mRNAs & SINOVAC. double protection
[3:37 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Part 4 - Is there a discriminatory treatment of those who take mRNA vaccines like Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna and those who take non-mRNA vaccines like Sinovac?
1. Again I will lend math and science to weigh against our Government approach to mRNA vaccines and non-mRBA - to determine is it discriminatory?
2. mRNA vaccines that have been predomninantly taken by many Countries such as Israel, UK, EU, Singapore --- has shown very positive outcome - though dented by the more transmissible Delta variants as I mentioned in the earlier Parts --- supported by many mainstream news media articles.
3. Though infection number rises in these Countries when Delta variants hit their shores, the following vital data hold up :-
a. Hospitalisation number is still hold down except those unvaccinated.
b. Oxygen support is not rising except those unvaccinated.
c. ICU is still manageable.
d. Death number did not rise for those vaccinated except those unvaccinated.
4. Conversely, those Countries that predominantly taken the non-mRNA vaccines such as Sinovac and Sinopharm see higher number in breakthrough infection, and in Indonesia even double digits death as per the URL links :-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-vaccine-efficacy-not-high-gao/2021/04/11/dafe3ab6-9a8f-11eb-8f0a-3384cf4fb399_story.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/china-vaccine-efficacy-some-countries-using-sinovac-and-sinopharm-are-still-seeing-covid-19-cases/ar-AALIFcT
Chna medical experts openly urge the need to mixed such mRNA vaccines with mRNA vaccines such as the BioNTech to boost their efficacy.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/china-considering-mixing-covid-19-vaccines-to-boost-protection-rate-20210412-p57ic8.html
https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/who-approval-chinese-covid-19-vaccines-sinovac-sinopharm-1812733-2021-06-09
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-killed-26-indonesian-doctors-in-juneat-least-10-had-taken-chinas-sinovac-vaccine-11624769885
5. So with all the above information presented, our Government have adopted the following approaches to the 2 types of vaccines :-
a. mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) - is our mainstay vaccines for our population and insured against if there are serious side effect.
b. non-mRNA vaccines (Sinovac) - is predominantly meant for those who have allergy to mRNA to at least get some protection from Sinovac.
Due to lack of efficacy in many overseas Countries, lack of data, China medical experts acknowledgement of its inefficacy ---- our Government only maintain Sinovac as a Special Access Route to be administered by the private sector --- with the intention of not encouraging our population for not taking mRNA vaccines when they are eligible and instead opt for Sinovac.
6. Thus I will support our Government approach on mRNA and non-mRNA vaccines --- as they are anchor on math and science - as presented by real scenarios from many Countries experience and factual data - minus those conspiracy theories, political inclination, doctors not from infectious specialist field.
---
[3:48 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: 4 men investigated for abusing enforcement officers, breaking mask rules
Four men are being investigated over allegations of abusive behaviour towards enforcement officers and safe distancing ambassadors, as well as flouting mask-wearing rules.
More: https://str.sg/3oyd
[3:55 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: π
[4:03 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: 6 new locally transmitted COVID-19 infections in Singapore; 2 unlinked
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-jul-5-locally-transmitted-imported-moh-15156816
[4:07 pm, 05/07/2021] +Caleb: https://youtu.be/OHTTjVOiiwI
Good job MCI! The audio are great now.
[4:07 pm, 05/07/2021] +Caleb: *great
[4:28 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Support measures for companies, workers, to cost $1.2 billion: Parliament
The support package to help companies and workers affected by the period of heightened alert is expected to cost $1.2 billion, said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday (July 5) in a speech on how the measures will be funded.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/support-measures-for-companies-workers-to-cost-12-billion-parliament
[4:30 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Larger groups of five diners expected to be allowed from July 12: Lawrence Wong
Larger groups of five people can be expected to be allowed to dine in together from next Monday (July 12), as Singapore eases measures and opens up further from a recent outbreak in community cases, Finance Minister Lawrence Wong told Parliament on Monday.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/larger-groups-of-five-diners-expected-to-be-allowed-from-july-12-lawrence-wong
[4:32 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ken: Lol if government can include in the protection scheme I would
[4:42 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Extension of credit for SMEs until March 2022 under two loan schemes
Small and medium-sized enterprises can continue to access credit to build their capabilities with the extension of two schemes, said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong in Parliament on Monday (July 5).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/extension-of-credit-for-smes-until-march-2022-under-two-loan-schemes
[5:02 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: ππ» Global tax deal will make it harder for S'pore to attract investments: Lawrence Wong
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/global-tax-deal-will-make-it-harder-for-spore-to-attract-investments-lawrence
ππ» Additional $1.2b Covid-19 govt support measures: How will S'pore firms and workers benefit?
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/additional-covid-19-support-measures-where-the-12-billion-is-going
[5:29 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: MOH investigating case of 16-year-old who suffered cardiac arrest nearly a week after COVID-19 vaccination
The Ministry of Health (MOH) on Monday (Jul 5) said it is investigating a case of a 16-year-old boy who suffered cardiac arrest six days after receiving his first dose of COVID-19 vaccination.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-16-year-old-cardiac-arrest-vaccination-moh-investigate-15158698
[5:38 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Oh he should not do strenuous exercise after vaccination.
It exert undue strain on the heart.
[5:39 pm, 05/07/2021] +jimmy chew: The young will be young π
[5:45 pm, 05/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
MOH should consider revising no physical exercise for 2 weeks after jab.
[5:49 pm, 05/07/2021] +Ben: Let's wait for the results of the examination.
[5:54 pm, 05/07/2021] +Caleb: I only thought cannot exercise for 1 week after the 2nd dose.
[6:34 pm, 05/07/2021] +Caleb: https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/expert-committee-on-covid-19-vaccination-updates-of-assessment-on-myocarditis-and-pericarditis-following-vaccination-with-mrna-covid-19-vaccines/
[6:47 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
[6:47 pm, 05/07/2021] +Kevin: Good night Megan.
[6:49 pm, 05/07/2021] +Anne: The expert committee should investigate whether the vaccine ingredients or the spike protein generated by the body cells cause or exacerbate heart and cardiovascular disease.
Not only are some of the young boys and men suffering from myocarditis and pericarditis, a family member of mine also suffered from an adverse reaction relating to his heart. Also, the media has already reported on 2 deaths - one from heart disease (when our G POFMA someone on the death) and cardiovascular disease (when someone lodged a police report and the coroner found that the deceased who had died after vaccination had clogged blood vessels).
Please investigate and let us know the results truthfully.
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
[6:50 pm, 05/07/2021] +Fulgrim: 16-year-old suffers cardiac arrest following strenuous weightlifting session six days after first Covid-19 jab
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/16-year-old-suffers-cardiac-arrest-following-strenuous-weightlifting-session-six
[6:51 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: π¨π±πππππ₯π°π€¦♀️
[6:51 pm, 05/07/2021] +Fulgrim: Aren't they investigating the cause ? The way it's being reported seems to suggest its the weights that killed him already...
[6:51 pm, 05/07/2021] +Fulgrim: Crap journalism.
[6:51 pm, 05/07/2021] +Rama: Possibly
[6:54 pm, 05/07/2021] +Fulgrim: I mean how can they prejudice it even when investigations are on-going
[6:54 pm, 05/07/2021] +Fulgrim: It's like they are passing judgement already
[7:05 pm, 05/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
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