REACH 355 - What are your views on these two new voting arrangements? Do you support these two new voting arrangements? If not, what are your concerns?

(SK)

01 Jun 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:44 am, 01/06/2022] +65 REACH: Dear contributors,

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[10:00 am, 01/06/2022] +65 REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

ELD has recently announced two new voting arrangements to improve voting accessibility for overseas Singaporeans and residents of selected nursing homes.

For overseas Singaporeans, ELD is considering postal voting so that overseas Singaporeans can cast their votes during an election even if they are unable to travel to the overseas polling stations or back to Singapore due to various reasons.

To improve voting accessibility for voters residing at nursing homes, ELD is considering setting up on-site polling stations at these homes and/or deploying mobile team(s) to bring the ballot box and ballot paper to the voter who is bedbound so that he/she can cast the vote at his/her bed. With this arrangement, voters residing in nursing homes will not have to travel outside of the nursing home to vote. This arrangement will be piloted at selected nursing homes for a start.

💬 What are your views on these two new voting arrangements? Do you support these two new voting arrangements? If not, what are your concerns? 

 New voting arrangements 

📍 Elections Department proposes new voting arrangements for overseas Singaporeans, voters in nursing homes https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/elections-department-new-voting-arrangements-overseas-singaporeans-nursing-homes-2706281

📍 Voting by post could be in place for overseas Singaporeans by next year’s presidential election https://str.sg/w2xZ

📍 ELD unveils proposals to make voting easier for overseas S'poreans, nursing home residents https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/eld-proposals-voting-overseas-sporeans-nursing-homes-1907416

📍 Elections Department looking to make voting easier for overseas Singaporeans, nursing home residents https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/government-economy/elections-department-looking-to-make-voting-easier-for-overseas-singaporeans

📍 Singaporeans living overseas welcome proposal for postal voting https://str.sg/w2fF

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[11:03 am, 01/06/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We’d love to hear more from you on today's topic 😊

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan

[0:00 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: 1 June, 2022

To: Our Established ELD and All Honorable Members 

"The First Happiness Of Convenience... ?" 

Costs of Overseas Postal Voting:

The benefits are inclusiveness of all voters, this case eligible Singaporeans working overseas on a longer term, meaning more than 2 years abroad and unable to travel back home for whatsoever inconveniences to cast their votes.

What's the COST and BUDGET allocated in reaching these overseas Singaporeans? Any prior data or experiences? What's the indicative total number of overseas voters, percentage wise of the entire voting population? 

What's the proposed WAYS our foreign embassies together with Internet access, convergingly in registering eligible Singaporeans prior to any national voting exercises?

What's th…

[0:02 pm, 01/06/2022] +Uncle Law: Oversea voting via online portal is a good way to reduce resources and manpower, as long it is secured and confidential

[0:10 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: 1 June, 2022 

Overseas Singaporeans also include those TRAVELLING for work, business or leisure whenever the election D day happens to coincides with their travel plans.

So Internet voting system may be one convenient way for these affected travellers of all reasons and all overseas locations.

"finding ways and means to reach out..."

- - annoymous

[0:10 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Hello Uncle Law!

[0:12 pm, 01/06/2022] +Uncle Law: Hello!

[0:15 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: " starts with why, when, what, how, who, whom and where...?"

- -  annoymous

[0:27 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Physical ID:

Passport, NRIC, Birth cert and Utilities bills.

Mobile ID:

Registered, verified and designated mobile phone number is the modern mobile ID of a voter. To further this verification process, Thumb print onto the Mobile phone is another check and verify of a valid human (not robot and or AI).

[1:47 pm, 01/06/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Giving citizens the opportunity to cast their vote in a fair and safe manner when the citizen possess the voting rights - will give the citizens a chance to determine the future of Singapore in which they belong.

2. Hence 2 groups of citizens - that are not able to vote currently because they are overseas and have no easy access to overseas mission to cast their votes or the elderly that are immobile in the nursing home and not able to travel to the polling station to vote - will be given a chance to cast their vote under this scheme.

3. These will help Singaporeans station in overseas to feel they have a stake at home - and can entice them to return one day to make contribution to Singapore.

4. Similarly, immobile elderly who have contributed all their lives to Singapore - should similarly feel that they are valued and able to determine the future of Singapore - even though they are not able to physically travel to the polling station to cast a vote.

5. Having establish the merits of letting these 2 groups the opportunities to cast their votes - then it boils down to the technicality on how the votes can be cast in a safe, secure and fair manner, whereby :-

a. Voter can make independent decision on how the vote is cast - free from external influence.

b. Political parties are convinced that voters vote according to their wish free from external influence.

c. Vote cast can arrive safely to the counting centre - and contribute to the vote count that determine the elected candidate(s).

[2:01 pm, 01/06/2022] +SL: Voting by post is the best available method currently, the security risk level of electronic voting remained high (programming flaw, system bug, failure in patch that overwritten the program, hacker activities, foreign threat actors, unethical /sabotage work by system administrator / supplier of the machine)

[2:04 pm, 01/06/2022] +SL: A program may pass the coding check during implementation. Backdoor and remote access via vulnerability cannot be rolled out in APT activities

[2:08 pm, 01/06/2022] +SL: There secure environment for voting on our own devices is not feasible implementation. High-security requirements to prevent APT attacks will hamper the user experience in logon to an online system

[2:11 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Physical post safest?

What if mail fraud from unknown sources outside of our jurisdiction.

EXAMPLE would up to 10k mail in is enough to tilt the balance of the results that will lead to recounting and many inconveniences?

[2:12 pm, 01/06/2022] +SL: The risk and magnitude of Physical post compromisation are lesser and not widespread. Massive compromisation required huge collaboration from many, parties from a security risk perspective.

[2:15 pm, 01/06/2022] +SL: Risk assessment on parcel compromisation usually happens in receiving destination and will then yield economic efficiency

[2:18 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Papers vs paperless

[2:25 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: A model electoral area of contest (SMC or GRC):

Fixed = total number of physical voters

Variables = number of pre-registered  overseas voters (by post or through Internet voting) 

This way perhaps will minimise any potential misunderstanding before, during and post election.

[2:26 pm, 01/06/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Overseas citizens

1. For those citizens who have easy access to overseas mission that conduct the polling, technicality is less of a problem - because the overseas mission will be conducted like any similar polling station in Singapore - run by official polling agents.

2. But for those oveseas citizens who do not have easy access to overseas mission - voting will be a problem - and normally they may give voting a miss.

3. Hence postal voting will provide an easy means to such overseas citizens - a chance to exercise their votes.

4. The issues are :-

a. Is the vote cast by overseas voters - the rightful voters?

b. Is the vote cast by these overseas voters - vote free from external influence and vote not according to their wish?

c. Is the vote cast safely delivered and reach ELD on time to make their counts?

5. Hence technicality of making the vote cast - using postal means will need to be examined :-

a. Login via Singpass by voters to access their electronic voting paper and self-address envelope to ELD - will ensure voter integrity - as only the rightful voter can access their unique voting paper and postal envelope - using their Singpass unique login credentials.

(Likely issue :- overseas voters may lose their Singpass credentials or forget their login password.

Solution :- can seek Singpass to reissue).

b. Download the electronic voting paper and address envelope to ELD and print it - so that overseas voters can cross their votes.

(Likely issue - 

i. Some overseas voters may not have printers, or printer ink run out - hence content of the voting paper and return envelope cannot be seen clearly.

ii. When making their votes, external people maybe around to influence how the voters vote.

iii. Cybersecurity risk - whereby hackers can steal the overseas voters Singpass login credentials and hijack the vote or vote against the overseas voter's wish.

Solution:-

i. Overseas voters will have to ensure they have access to the IT equipment and printer - that are required to make their votes.

ii. Ensure when they make their postal votes - no external people are around to influence how they vote.

iii. Ensure their Singpass credentials are not compromise, and their laptops are secured by personal firewall, anti-virus software etc.)

c. Ensure they sign on the return envelope to ensure no one can can open the envelope and alter the vote.

d. Ensure the voting paper are mail and reach ELD on time to make the voting counts.

e. Political parties must endorse this voting method is safe, free and fair - and they must honour these overseas voters' vote.

[2:28 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Pre registering as one control system for overseas voters.

Using Singpass enough to access or added parameters of checks and verifications?

Govt Tech to examine, dry runs and suggestions ?

[2:30 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: 3 months window to register.

4th month announcements by ELD on the exact count of qualified overseas voters in each constituent SMC or GRC.

[2:32 pm, 01/06/2022] +SL: Antivirus and firewalls may not be able to solve the issue of sophisticated attacks via keylogger, rootkit, injection, and many more.

[2:50 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: 1 June, 2022

MFA and ICA have a good count of the number of Singaporeans outside of our country at any given point in time.

During Covid times, MFA exercised in reaching out to overseas Singaporeans to arrange travel back to home. Though it is two years old, these number of travellers is a start list of the larger probable numbers of voters whom are 21 years and above and eligible too.

Recap:

https://thetravelintern.com/covid-19-singapore-students-overseas-return-home/

[3:11 pm, 01/06/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Immobile Elderly at nursing home

1. Those elderly who can walk assisted to the mobile polling station setup at nursing home.

2. Those who cannot get out of the bed - that need assistant to bring the voting paper to the elderly to mark their votes.

3. Issues are:-

a. Some political parties voice concern that elderly with staff assistance around - may "influence" or "pressure" elderly to mark their votes against their wish - as the elderly are not left alone as they need physical assistance - even though staff are not allowed to physically mark the voting paper on the elderly behalf.

4. The question to ask is - should the immobile elderly be deprived of their voting rights - due to their physical immobility.

- how far political parties can trust the system - that staff assisting the elderly will have high integrity and not influence the wish of the elderly when marking the votes.

- how far political parties can trust the elderly - to cast their votes based on their wish - and not let others influence their choice that determine the future of Singapore - in which they have a stake in - given that they have make contribution all their entire lives.

5. If the answer is positive to all the questions raised - then I feel that we can absorb some risks - and not deprive the immobile elderly of their voting rights.

[3:19 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Exceptions are mental or dementia seniors (not eligible), using Ipad and e-thumb print or signature will suffice such simple requirements.

[3:20 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Trust the ELD officials on site, this case nursing homes.

[3:22 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Voting room at nursing homes.

Doctors or Nurses or Helps are prohibited from entering into this 'sacred' room!

[3:46 pm, 01/06/2022] +Rama: Point three is of concern to me

[4:07 pm, 01/06/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Actually, these 2 groups of people are not too many to be able to affect the results unless in a very close contest.

It is up to the political parties to determine whether they can accept some risks and not deprive these small groups of their voting rights.

I am prepare to accept such risks.

[5:33 pm, 01/06/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: Great idea which should also include those in hospitals.

[5:33 pm, 01/06/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: It would make more sense to do so electronically via Singpass

[5:43 pm, 01/06/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Political parties don't trust electronic votes.

They say govt tamper with it.

They only trust hardcopy - voters physically mark voting paper.

[5:47 pm, 01/06/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: Yes that's true. In any case, good to include overseas voters but especially those who cannot go to vote because of mobility issues.

[5:47 pm, 01/06/2022] +Poh Seng Lim: 👏🏻👍 there was a podcast about how 2016 US elections could not be tampered by the Russians directly because many US local elections were by paper trails which ensured no electronic hacking could falsify the results and hence the integrity was credible

[5:51 pm, 01/06/2022] +jimmy chew: There was a Case in the US state where thr rep collecting the votes tempered with it

[5:54 pm, 01/06/2022] +jimmy chew: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/11/29/true-tale-absentee-voter-fraud-north-carolina-523238

[5:54 pm, 01/06/2022] +Poh Seng Lim: One isolated case, but overall it was so decentralised that it became impossible for Russians to use tech to hack as computers were only used for tallying, not the voting itself, so the source was tamper-proof

[6:09 pm, 01/06/2022] +Rama: Just like trump!?

[6:12 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: Are we  looking at 3 millions eligible voters, 21 yrs and above?

Or lowered the voting age to 18 and above?

[6:15 pm, 01/06/2022] +Smiley face: The point is the risk factor is much lower given 3 million tickets to eyeball and so on compared to other nations of 30 millions voters?

The dynamics involve will be a fraction given our efficient planings and policies, things should be secured?

[6:45 pm, 01/06/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:59 pm, 01/06/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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