REACH 278 - What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures? (SK)
29 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:14 am, 29/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! ๐
⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10.15 am to 7pm today. ⏰
House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:
1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views.
2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.
3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.
4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.
5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential.
Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms
We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.
Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.
The topic will be posted shortly.
Thank you
Megan ๐
[10:16 am, 29/09/2021] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
Singapore's healthcare system is under tremendous pressure, and the latest Covid-19 restrictions are needed to stabilise the situation and prevent avoidable deaths, said Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday (Sep 27). These measures, which aim to slow the pace at which cases are rising, will give Singapore time to build up its healthcare capacity - including facilities outside hospitals - so that it can cope with 5,000 or more cases a day.
Since home recovery was made the default mode of care for COVID-19 patients here from Sep 18, the Ministry of Health (MOH) has tapped private telemedicine providers here to help attend to COVID-19 patients on home recovery. Many have said, however, that they are stretched thin and face an influx of calls, with some patients waiting up to an hour to see a doctor.
๐ฌ What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures?
The latest restrictions on social gatherings kicked in on Monday - a day after Singapore reported nearly 2,000 new cases - and are set to last a month. Under the new rules, people are not allowed to gather in groups larger than two, and working from home is once again the default.
Vulnerable communities such as the visually impaired have been particularly hard-hit by the pandemic, with many struggling to navigate changing restrictions. Separately, Singapore’s population has also been negatively impacted, with the overall population, birth rates, and marriages falling this year due to the pandemic.
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/latest-covid-19-curbs-can-prevent-avoidable-deaths-allow-time-to-boost-healthcare
๐
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/home-recovery-telemedicine-providers-stretched-thin-but-working-round-the-clock-to
๐
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/psle-candidates-in-quarantine-need-to-inform-school-by-12pm-take-daily
๐
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/how-covid-19-and-other-trends-hit-singapores-population-in-8-charts
๐
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/navigating-virus-measures-a-challenge-for-those-with-visual-impairment
๐
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/sporeans-socialising-and-dining-out-less-mental-well-being-has-declined-covid-19
-----
[10:25 am, 29/09/2021] +Dan: Tmr is PSLE. I can imagine the anxiety of the pupils sitting for the national exam. Especially those who are tested positive.
Please give clear instructions for the students on how they can take their PSLE even when they are quarantined. Thank you.
[10:34 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Seems like MOH didn’t anticipate the demands of Home Recovery in advance, resulting in many frustrations of those put on this programme. Perhaps MOH should enlist other ministries help in managing the influx of cases. For eg, NSFs, grassroot leaders and etc
[10:34 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Home recovery need better short and concise explanation, i learnt a case where a person had been just swap but instruction is he still have to submit ART before xx hours? does it make sense? Also which part of the infection phase where health experts are so sure that the care taker or those in the same confine space will not be affected? aka child infected sure needs to have care giver (but care giver no qo and no need swap??) same for adults i positive case but stay in a room within a hdb flat u can confirmed the spread will not take place within the household (maybe very little chance but is still a spread)
[10:35 am, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: +1
I think they have asked SAF for help
[10:35 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Perhaps can even recruit public volunteers
[10:36 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: I got a friend only received a health risk warning 7 days after exposure. That’s a bit too long and who knows he or she might have contacted and spread to other people.
[10:41 am, 29/09/2021] +YT: Home recovery, to me, seems like a idealistic idea. It will work if people are matured enough, socially responsible enough. Unfortunately, we all know people are not all that way. So, it is an ideal state that we wish to attain but may not be able to achieve due to human nature. I worry for the healthcare system if people in home recovery "get around the system" and continue the chain of infection to their immediate family members, neighbours, etc., I have no better recommendations, unfortunately. So, short of being a stone thrower, I am hoping for the best but need to point out the shortfall of such a plan nonetheless.
[11:08 am, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: those Tested Positive can not Attend exams
Only those under QO
HRW HRA
Can attend exams as per MOE clear instructions.
(School also given instructions separately)
[11:13 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: +1
I know of several ppl who hv bn put on home QO.
They all say that the direction is not clr, or they didn't get the self test kits they were promised, etc etc.
Ther is now a Telegram msg grp tt has grown to >11k users, 10% active within the grp.
MOH has assigned a few ppl to assist this grp of ppl on QO.
But ther needs to be more clarity on how other household members of affected person can take care of the affected person & themselves.
In an HDB flat, ther is only one master room en suite.
Then wat abt the rest of the household sharing the common bathroom?
Do they disinfect after every use (or wat)?
How to social distance within such a confined space if ther r, say, more than 5 members in the household?
[11:16 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: With the use of smart technology nowadays, why not MOH create a AI chat robot to manage the enquiries of those put on QO?
[11:26 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: 5 more seniors died ytd.
It seems wat we r doing... getting seniors vax ... is futile...
Is ther sth tt we hv missed abt the virus and its effects on the older population?
Again, I've asked b4 - r u sure booster shot is the answer.
Wat happens another 6 months down the line ...?
๐๐ปHence, I think we need to re examine the situation and try to take a different perspective on this virus - how is it affecting the elderly who r alredi vax
- did the efficacy lvl drop over time?
- how long since their last dose and getting infected?
- which vaccine was taken?
- is a booster shot necessary and is the interval time frame of 6 months sufficient?
I hv a fren whose took her 2nd dose in April . She was invited to take booster shot in October - exactly 6 months apart.
We feel it is too soon?
Is the gov team fatigued & grasping at straws now, just to derive a solution for us but which is nothing more than a temporary fix?
Wat next after this booster shot and infection/death rates still do not stop?
It looks like we may need to go back to the drawing board.
What hv we missed (not noticed) ?
[11:29 am, 29/09/2021] +Dong Liang: Go back to the drawing board means go back to circuit breaker?
[11:31 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: Sori.
Wat I meant was MOH to re look at their approach (investigation & study) to wat the virus is doing,
not at SMM.
[11:34 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: no more CB, pls!
We r barely coping w current SMM restrictions ...
Biz & livelihoods alredi having hard time.
We still need to survive (somehow) amid this crisis!
[11:39 am, 29/09/2021] +Dong Liang: Unfortunately the cases will remain high for a foreseeable future if no CB. We all have to live with that. The anxiety of getting exposed to a positive case is so real now.
[11:40 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: living with a 0 infection and death is not possible that's reality
[11:40 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: neither are we in endemic phase instead is progressing to it
[11:40 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: endemic like govt says certain safety measure still remains like masking on
[11:41 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so society have to drill this into the mind
[11:41 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: next society by hook or crook have to learnt to be responsible not only to themselves but as a social being
[11:52 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210903/Third-vaccine-dose-reduces-transmission-and-severe-COVID-19-nationwide-in-Israel.aspx
Third vaccine dose reduces transmission and severe COVID-19 nationwide in Israel.
[11:53 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The message from Israel is clear: Covid booster shots should be standard.
Third doses are highly effective at preventing people from becoming infected with Delta, among those who are willing to be vaccinated.
When third doses dramatically reduce a person’s susceptibility to infection, it creates a barrier to the onward transmission and spread of the virus.
https://sg.yahoo.com/news/message-israel-clear-covid-booster-104738516.html
[11:55 am, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: and look how the number of cases in Israel went parabolic
[11:55 am, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: If it s really endemic, stop counting cases; stop contact tracing. Those who are sick stay at home or go to hospital if needed
[11:56 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Part 3 - Areas of Improvement - to mitigate the covid breakthrough and live with virus in endemic
1. Preventing or greatly reduce covid transmission.
- Explore nasal spray vaccine - as covid blocker to prevent transmission
- Or other solutions that can prevent covid transmission.
2. Vaccinate the remaining unvaccinated - 5% adults and elderly, 10% children below 12 years old (Pfizer has send all data about the children trial to US FDA, early Oct 2021 should have grant emergency approval).
Source :- https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-talks-over-full-license-covid-19-vaccine-singapore-2021-09-24/
Pfizer in talks over full license for COVID-19 vaccine in Singapore.
Full license is a prelude to compulsory vaccination.
Only when 100% vaccination is achieve like smallpox, measles, TB, polio, diptheria, mumps etc for covid --- and we truly live in endemic.
3. Booster 3rd shot for above 60 years old have shown to be beneficial - and can prevent breakthrough cases leading to death, ICU, oxygen - as the 5 vaccinated death are > 60 years old with co-morbities illness.
4. Keep abreast of theuraptics treatment - eg. monoclonal anti-bodies cocktail treatment that have been effective in treating covid patient.
5. Unless we can do all of Part 3 --- we have to be mentally prepare ourselves from periodic lockdown --- because the moment we reopen for endemic without addressing all of Part 3 --- we will experience the same situation that we are going through currently :-
- Spike in infection number
- Spike in hospitalisation, serious cases or death
- Crippling our healthcare system - and deprive other patients from getting treatment.
This is the Hard Truth --- based on math and science.
=====
[11:56 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: already says is NOT endemic lor... even minister they themslevs say so
[11:57 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is progress towards endemic ... stop sharing the idea is endemic
[11:57 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: people will have misconception and go against what is put in place
[11:58 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: socially we have people who are already irresponsible couple with this o we are in endemic it just adds fuel to fire
[11:59 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Only when whole of Part 3 is address comprehensively - can we effectively tackle this covid pandemic - and transit into endemic.
Else brace for periodic lockdown.
Until and unless we have covid blocker solutions
[0:02 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: To achieve 'full' vacc is only possible for adults.. can't include those who r not eligible for the moment.
Curr stats of 84% of adult pop rcv both doses has bn remained stagnant for a while now.
Wat's happening to those taking Sinovac / Sinopharm?
Speed up the delivery of Novavax ... like I said earlier... End Nov seems like a long way away... U won't get 100% until that comes in.
Dun get me wrong ... I'm alredi fully vax.
But I know of ppl who r waiting for Novavax.
[0:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: I'm also assuming tt the 84% incl those who hv taken Sinovac / Sinopharm ?
[0:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: 9% of population is kids 11 and below. So 84%/91%=92.3% of eligible population are fully vaccinated, no matter which vaccines.
[0:10 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: Tks for the update.
[0:11 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. The concept of Home Recovery Program I support for the following reasons:-
a. Can give up hospital beds for serious cases.
b. Less cost for patients and taxpayer to bear if rest at home.
c. Mentally people are more at ease at home - for the patients and their families members.
2. Understand there will be teething problems in implementing Home Recovery Program - as it is newly implemented and infection cases suddenly spike and overwhelm the call system.
Progressively resolve the teething problem and let SAF help to cope with the surging demand.
[0:17 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I think we have not yet found the solution to block covid transmission.
The moment we found it - the pandemic will stop spreading.
When I read Israel news, it roll out 3rd booster shot to all age groups.
Like Hepatitis B jabs that requires 3 jabs - it seems to have stop the Delta variants from spreading.
Too early to tell, but we can closely monitor and see whether Israel is right or not.
[0:21 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: For home recovery at HDB blocks, maybe we can have a group of people let’s say 4 or 5 people take care of 2 or 3 blocks? A group has SAF and volunteers nearby. Maybe volunteers can be called as national service kind too, like those be called to court. So to ease burden of hotlines and hospitals. Give some training to the group first.
[0:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: Huge lunch crowd in cbd
[0:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: That's how the government will continue to kill F&B in Singapore
[0:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Dan: Thanks, Suma. Actually my feedback is a response to the cna article, where the P6 pupils who were tested positive are left in "limbo".
[0:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Dan: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/parents-cheer-move-allow-quarantined-candidates-psle-covid-positive-students-still-limbo-2201746
[0:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +jimmy chew: Preparing for lock down ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[0:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: Those vulnerable elders, most with critical illnesses, they won’t come to food courts or restaurants at all. So the restrictions of how many people dining can not help much. Only to make business owners suffer.
[0:34 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Dine in still allow for 2.
2. People are not coming out to eat is because people are fearful of the big infection number - not the lock down.
[0:34 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: The family members of elders need to take caution so that do not spread virus to elders. The hospitals and nursing homes are big risk environments to elders.
[0:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Of course WFH will impact office crowd in CBD.
[0:37 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
But all neighborhood f&b are doing well.
[0:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Maybe can enlist grassroot leaders to help. As one myself I’m willing to help
[0:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: Novavax not yet approve in USA FDA and WHO right?
[0:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: Boys under National service can be assigned too, as this is a war to Covid-19.
[0:44 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: +1
Community living. Can activate the PA's Community Emergency Response Team
[0:44 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: Or grassroots
[0:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +KS Foong: May be this is a good time to look into NS for female.
[0:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: And the RC's ect
[0:46 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=230627522437869&id=100064718678925
[0:50 pm, 29/09/2021] +Adrian: Think this might be too reactionary though๐
[0:55 pm, 29/09/2021] +Adrian: While agreeing NSFs as a ready source of manpower, I think should also be cognisant that these are also Singaporean sons whom we also need to take care of. Ideally MOH can settle on their own by ramping up capacity, but I think we should not be too quick to deploy NSFs
[0:56 pm, 29/09/2021] +Adrian: +1 to this though! ๐๐ป
[1:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: +1
[1:05 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Dun forget nsf role is defences military aspect if these are down in big number we are shit too
[1:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +65 9839 9693: The home recovery is not very clear. I believe your entry PCR test is positive and that is where you are given a home recovery. From there till day 10, we will not know the status. What happens if ART test on day 10 is positive, am I discharged still ? This is very unclear and need to be enlightened. Why there is no further test and it is due to some medical reasons and it is good to inform.
[1:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +65 9106 3752: Home recovery and telemedicine are good options provided the, protocol, criteria, infrastructure, and user capacity are provided for.
Vulnerable communities (such as persons with disabilities, with have difficulty moving around on their own) are perhaps already mainly home, or can be encouraged to stay within their neighborhood. If their risk of exposure (and transmission) is reduced or lesser, and the modes of transmission is close contact as per the info available to us at this point, then the necessity of booster for them is questionable.
[1:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Hmm agree
Very sad About it
How do they feel
As every one writing and they end up not able to write
:(
Very unfair to those young children who missed it.
[1:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
More pandemics will happen unless humans repair relationship with nature: Experts.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sustainability/more-pandemics-unless-humans-repair-relationship-nature-2205761
[1:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +KS Foong: No one knows what had hide inside the melting ice from both poles.
[1:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: repair what .. gove land and built jungle for them, stop eating animals? hahahahaha
[1:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: brain storm is there a better way for c+ / suspected case to transport themself as phv and taxi many of the drivers are of 60 and above
[1:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is a risk
[1:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: i do know c+ or suspected case needs to put in remark something like they are a case so the driver can open windows and take extra measure
[1:44 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Human slaughter animals for food to stay alive and earn money.
Now we reap the covid karma - covid damage our health and livelihood.
Karma is always just and equal - I have realized.
If humans have take more than necessary, one day human will have to repay back - this I have realized.
Thus I hope the world plant based meat and cell culture reengineering meat will become mainstream one day and replace animal slaughtering for food.
Then we can prevent future disease X and future pandemic.
[1:44 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but what if the passenger hide all this exposing the driver knowingly
[1:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: in turn the driver will spread to his envrionment including other pax / family / place of his visit
[1:53 pm, 29/09/2021] +Dan: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/citizen-births-marriages-fall-2020-covid-19-impact-couples-babies-2207161
Forgive my pessimism,. Covid may have something to do with the dip. But there are other things too. Gloomy prospects. Stressful education system. Climate change.
[1:54 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: how to dating when exposure maybe high hahahha
[1:54 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: place are restricted so cannot meet new target?
[1:54 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but for courting couple the world is for them now except no travel of country
[2:01 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Need to check vaccination status before asking someone out for a date... ๐คฃ
[2:01 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: [Sent by Gov.sg – 29 Sep]
COVID-19 FAQs on ART and Home Quarantine Order (HQO) ๐ท
Tested positive on an ART or need to serve a HQO?
๐ Visit go.gov.sg/faq-29Sep-art and go.gov.sg/faq-29sep-hqo to get answers to commonly-asked questions:
What should I do if my ART is positive?
️⃣ Should I get a PCR test if my ART is positive?
️⃣ I’ve been informed of my QO via SMS. What should I do next?
️⃣ What are the serious COVID-19 symptoms I should look out for? How can I get help?
️⃣ What if there are vulnerable persons at home, such as the pregnant or the elderly?
[2:09 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: Agree
[2:11 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: yeah yeah , excuse me ... xxxx can i check u vaccinated hahahahaha
[2:18 pm, 29/09/2021] +CQ: "Where's your badge??" ๐
[2:19 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: that will pissed off the suitor hahahahahaha
[2:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Patrick Loke: Nanking Row massacre. ๐ฅ
[3:05 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Then lift all restrictions and kill humans instead lor.
[3:12 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures? Still so focused on case numbers, which I understand can lead to higher numbers of serious illness, but equally people are getting covid and if reasonably healthy and vaccinated are all recovering a few days later. Clearly any type of social interaction will lead to transmission. Until COVID is banished from the Earth we need to accept it, or forever be in lockdown, spending our reserves, impacting our kids and our health service. We need a way for people ro recover without stretching our health services.
[3:13 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: The idea that opening F&B will kill everyone is a great example of how much fear there is in Singapore. Why is there not the same fear about the impact of these restrictions on our health, economy and sanity?
[3:13 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: How are citizens in other countries in Europe all alive, considering there are almost no restrictions?
[3:14 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Yeah lets do it let all get infected after all society is not doing our part. Thanks to that small % of self minded people
[3:14 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: I'm not being flippant, but I sense the nation becoming fixated and obsessive about the fear of covid.
[3:15 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Covid is very infectious we know this, and also often asymptomatic. For all we know many of us had it, and recovered already.
[3:16 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Can we start a programme of testing for anti-bodies?
[3:17 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Opening is not a problem we talk so much how come till now we are still blaming the policies? How about the society? As if the society is damm innocent.
[3:17 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: It takes 2 hands to clap
[3:20 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures?
One thing I'm starting to wonder is - is MOH hiding something from us?
Current case numbers, with 98% mild/asymptomatic cases, and a small minority in ICU - do not warrant aggressive tightening and ongoing contact tracing efforts. There is a significant disconnect here.
One way to resolve this disconnect is to assume the government is overly cautious. If so, then we should relook into this current "brake tapping" exercise.
Another way to resolve this disconnect is that the real situation is actually a lot more serious than what the numbers are saying. If so, the measures are warranted, but MOH should come clean and let us know the truth.
Otherwise, depending on which of the 2 sides we lean on, people will be divided on their opinion.
[3:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: This is a fair way of looking at it.
[3:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Come clean? Society will freak out we saw that with CB. There could be economical implications also look at the current situation we had been listed as dangerous place to visit by USA.
[3:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yep - how ironic is that. We are too dangerous for the US!
[3:24 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: More US people died of Covid than people in WWII, yet with under 100 deaths we are too dangerous.
[3:24 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Also personally i dun find the situation of restricted movement so bad cos outside movement is still allow not cb where everywhere is dead almost
[3:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, I think there might be a sense of "It's not bad for me, so what's the problem"
[3:26 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe if we had more personal choice, people who are vulnerable and anxious can stay home, whilst others who are careful and take sensible precautions can go and live their 'new normal' lives.
[3:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: I agree. People are still out and about. Too many people, in fact.
[3:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Issue is like mentioned is that grp of socially irresponsible types are the case. Unless one is out amd abt everyday, is hard to understand how can such be ...
[3:30 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Misinterpret movement is good for varies reason but must be responsible socially
[3:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Yes even at this current stage the food print still huge, but this helps keeps certain business going, people needs to buy provisions ... Thus i say is not as bad compare to cb
[3:34 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: But that does not means we remain this way
[3:34 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Yes! During CB, retail all not allowed to open. Now no such restrictions. I don't understand why people still complaining.
[3:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Govt is using this time to ramp up resource i think they can see further den us, and maybe to study as part of progression to endemic....
[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +CQ: Best part is that people are still going out and the same people are still complaining.
[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: They simply understand the difference!
[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Public what we do? Grumble, trying to beat the system, saying policies are bad, o it affect people mental health, affect business, affect life style and hahahha latest affect dating leading to marriage
[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: All that is listed exist in a ecosystem call society........
[3:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: So why are we complaining while we are slapping ourselves on the face....
[3:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: ๐ ๐๐คฃ๐คฆ♀️๐คท♂️
[3:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: So hard to please lor. Customer from hell. Hahaha...
[3:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Society mindset yes is hard to change but if u, u u u megan me Reach do our little part the right way we can push 1 cm closer to a better state
[3:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Is not possible neither it is god speed fast but least we can stop ppl having and doing the wrong things
[3:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Being too hard say iron fist ruling
[3:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Totally agree! If we all exercise social responsibility and be more considerate, we won't be in this state now. Or maybe we will be in a less stressful state than now. Can't always depend on laws to make us obey.
[3:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Being too soft we make ourself a joke like apple and being called flipsy
[3:42 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Country Cases Deaths Date of data collection
Austria 733526 10741 28/09/2021
Belgium 1238263 25568 27/09/2021
Bulgaria 495397 20638 28/09/2021
Croatia 400108 8606 28/09/2021
Cyprus 119903 552 28/09/2021
Czechia 1690288 30454 28/09/2021
Denmark 357370 2646 28/09/2021
Estonia 154722 1351 28/09/2021
Finland 139678 1069 28/09/2021
France 6995628 116537 28/09/2021
Germany 4203571 93504 28/09/2021
Greece 648091 14727 28/09/2021
Hungary 821526 30179 28/09/2021
Iceland 11722 33 28/09/2021
Ireland 385721 5209 28/09/2021
Italy 4662087 130742 28/09/2021
Latvia 155076 2689 28/09/2021
Liechtenstein 3445 60 27/09/2021
Lithuania 327896 4946 28/09/2021
Luxembourg 77930 835 28/09/2021
Malta 37103 457 28/09/2021
Netherlands 1997885 18154 28/09/2021
Norway 186926 850 28/09/2021
Poland 2903655 75572 28/09/2021
Portugal 1067175 17955 28/09/2021
Romania 1199761 36450 28/09/2021
Slovakia 798921 12596 27/09/2021
Slovenia 290994 4857 28/09/2021
Spain 4951640 86298 27/09/2021
Sweden 1149407 14821 23/09/2021
[3:42 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
No EU countries is out of the wood yet.
In fact the infection number and death are still very high
[3:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Really called me old minded if LKY is here i sure we see tougher rules amd internal social sanctions hahahaha
[3:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: Agree
[3:43 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Only Norway and Denmark recently want to follow what Singapore is doing - transit to endemic.
[3:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: So word to the ministry draw up ur game plan well, collaborate .... Virus front MOH u are the delta force, society wise whatever ministry u jave to drum up a good war cry to get all on the same line
[3:46 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Trade ministry keep doing ur part to attract business but also teach our business here to fish stop feeding them.... How long u wanna feed dem ...?
[3:47 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Stop making the people happy... Govt job is not that is to secure stability and confidence and overcome barriers for the nations
[3:50 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Individuals have to know we are all in this together from ur house to your kpt to the transport system to your business. There is not me or u affected is WE.
[4:03 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
R0 number = 5 to 9 (Delta R0)
Singapore report R0 spread for Delta is about 5 - as we have >80% vaccinated and we practice wearing mask and social distancing.
(Note :- US report R0 = 9 - as many don't wear mask and vaccination rate are lower than Singapore).
Now let us do a math calculation.
Yesterday infection number = 2,236.
By taking the lower R0 = 5 --->
Day 1 (29Sep2021) = 2,236 x 5 (spread to 5 persons) = 11,180 (within 3 days 1Oct2021 - the highest viral load for Delta after 3 days - and infection spread is the highest.).
Day 3 (1Oct2021) = 11,180 x 5 = 55,900 (by 3Oct2021)
Day 6 (3Oct2021) = 55,900 x 5 = 279,500 (by 6Oct2021)
Day 9 (6Oct2021) = 279,500 x 5 = 1,379,500 (by 9Oct2021)
Day 12 (9Oct2021) = 1,379,500 x 5 = 6,987,500 (by 9Oct2021) --- Singapore total population of 5.45 million totally overwhelm.
We have about 1 million adults, elderly and children below 12 years unvaccinated ---- our hospitalisation overwhelm (1,600 beds to 5,000 beds max for covid patients) and our doctors plus specialists about 10,000 overwhelm. ----- less than 1 month (if we declare Freedom Day for endemic --- and do a EU free-for-all).
No Countries in the World is endemic or a Total Freedom Day --- without high casaulties.
Only Norway and Denmark last week declare endemic --- with high vaccination rate --- but we will have to wait and see whether they succumb to high infection rate and overwhelm their hospitals or not ----- no one knows, yet.
[4:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-emergency-addenbrookes-wait-patients-b1927822.html
[4:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Believe this is not a situation we want here, similar to what US is or India a couple of mths ago
[4:15 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore population = 5.45 million.
[4:17 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Note :- Norway and Denmark population about 5.5 million like Singapore.
But look at the land mass of Norway and Denmark - so many times the size of Singapore - a tiny red dot.
Singapore population density is so compact - and 1 outbreak will spread like wildfire.
Unlike Norway and Denmark - where population are so scatter - covid cannot hop and jump and spread like Singapore.
If Singapore do an endemic free for all - we will be doom.
[4:18 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: ๐ฑ๐ฑ Scary maths
:(
[4:21 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: scary take that numbers and say give very conservative 2% are children
[4:21 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: how that feel ...
[4:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: ๐๐๐
[4:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and imagine Singapore medical system break down .. how does that feel (remember medical system belong not only to covid but other medical issues as well)
[4:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
Totally agree
Thats why i fully support this latest measures.
[4:30 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Thus whatever government policies we make - we cannot monkey see monkey do.
Copy whole log stock and barrel.
We must know our context, learn from people experience - modified and adapt according to our circumstances.
Singapore is unique and we are successful because we use our wisdom and adapt.
Not anyhow copy and paste.
[4:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: same i said this before , cannot just see good and follow, instead take those good points and see if it works in our ecosystem and if not modify ... liek our school teach us wanna copy please be smart .. make some changes
[4:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if we follow US and UK or even France (no pun) think we will be in a worst state ......
[4:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: anyway is high time for the ministry to really work together no more of A is A b is B
[4:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: i hate to see such report about Singapore in international papers unless we consider this news as FAKE?
[4:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: ➡️ Nursing homes to test all residents, maintain separate zones to prevent spread of Covid-19
SINGAPORE - Dividing premises into distinct zones for staff and residents and testing for all residents are some of the measures nursing homes have adopted to minimise the spread of Covid-19.
More: https://str.sg/3T2p
➡️ 5 precautions nursing homes are taking to protect seniors
SINGAPORE - Nursing homes here have been stepping up precautions to safeguard senior residents even as Covid-19 cases continue to rise in the community.
More: https://str.sg/3T2Y
[4:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ace: Does anyone know when nursing homes are likely to allow relatives to visit residents?
[4:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ace: It's been almost two years since some of these residents have had visitors
[4:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ace: I'm sure the ongoing pandemic and unceasing restrictions are having an adverse impact on residents
[4:49 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: Am surprised they were not divided into zones earlier
[5:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Is this in 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or ever?
[5:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe not - he might tell us that we need to keep the country going and to exercise personal judgement.
[5:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: It is very endemic in France and Italy.
[5:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - so we need to get the country going again, and not be so mindful of the fear being spread.
[5:24 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Look at France and Italy infection number and death.
The highest in whole of EU.
[5:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - definitely need some restrictions in place. The debate is about which restrictions, for who?
[5:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: From day 1, or since vaccinations rollout?
[5:26 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Speading fear is not helpful. Easy to create panic and extrapolate numbers into doom and gloom.
[5:27 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Do you have the breakdown?
I don't have.
[5:27 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This is math, not spreading fear
And our daily number show the trajectory. Surely this is not spreading fear.
[5:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: No evidence of this. Even in Europe where numbers went very high. I posted earlier the in depth study of the Covid and Children. 1 in 2 million death rate and they were children with underying health conditions.
[5:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: You are using maths from day 1 when there were no vaccinations, no care, no restrictions and extrapolating those numbers forward.
[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
72% of Singaporean in survey support the current government measures.
[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: You are the one who posted the numbers!
[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Bad math without public health background is spreading fear.
[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: So are we allowing public fear to dictate policy?
[5:30 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed.
[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Government make the assessment and determine the current measures and supported by 72% of the population.
You belong to the minority
[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Imagine? This is what I mean, people are allowing their imagination to run away with each other.
[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Boon: Thanks for the transparency. Shouldn’t this be done earlier when Sg politicians talked about living with Covid and news of elderly dying started to be more frequent?
[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: I support evidence based decision making. Is that the minority?
[5:32 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The current medical systems is indeed under strain.
Many services cancel and postpone.
This is the known fact.
[5:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - and is this because people are scared and putting the system under unneccessary strain?
[5:33 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Scared or sick?
[5:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: If we don't know, that's a problem.
[5:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: R0 is a number that's retroactively derived, based on best available info and varies by environment and population. There's no fixed R0 for a virus. Going by ur projections, everyone in the world would b infected by Delta a few months ago. Duh.
[5:34 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes if no mask no restrictions.
[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Spanish flu wipe out million and million of people.
[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: There's a reason why MOH isn't using primary school multiplication to spread misinformation and fear or to justify ur own point of view.
[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Shrugs
[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: And how is this is a helpful statement?
[5:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Believe what u want man. U r not credible..just cos u type in numbers don't mean u r right.
[5:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +Boon: With all the greatest respect to our healthcare workers and friends, it begs the question what were the MOH preps done in the past 1+ years - that our system is already under “tremendous pressure” just a few short months after Sg opened our borders amidst messages to Sg to live with Covid?
[5:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Go study public health first before touting numbers. U don't know what u r talking about.
[5:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, this is very puzzling. What was the contingency plan if the virus was to spread as expected when we relaxed measures?
[5:37 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And the government current decision is right and supported by the majority.
And this is an important fact.
[5:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Shrugs
[5:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: No one is denying that. We are looking forward to how to get out of this situation.
[5:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: The gov decision is the only choice while there is fear being spread, while there is no thinking about how to deal with the virus and no contigency in place for increased numbers.
[5:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: +1
[5:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: By that I mean that people are scared and anxious, so until we reassure them it's not as bad as they think (as per the evidence) and that personal responsibility and recovering at home is an option, then what else can we do?
[5:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Society needs to come to a more positive and resilient way of thinking. Get real. Get vaccinated. Check the facts and let's work our way out of this.
[5:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Even vaccinated get sick, but only need care if seriously ill.
[5:57 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: there had been reports current state already exceed the spanish flu
[5:58 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: ๐จ๐ฑif so, not surprising!
[6:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: U gotta be kidding. Spanish flu have 25m deaths.
[6:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +Boon: +1
[6:02 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: o sorry my bad is in us history upon double check
[6:02 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: as US death rates makes up 14% of the 4.7 million deaths so far
[6:05 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: covid really isn't as bad as a disease compared to what we have experienced in the past. The problem is that the global population does not have prior immunity against this new viral strain. In the past few years, that has obviously changed (i.e. population has built up more immunity against COVID) and deaths/severe diseases have been lowered (relative to infection rates) primarily due to vaccinations
[6:06 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: BTW - Spanish Flu is much worse cos it causes more severe disease in the younger working/healthy population. If COVID is anything like that, our economy and health systems would have crashed.
[6:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: SARS, MERS all have much worse fatality rates
[6:09 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: our fear needs to be proportionate to the reality of the disease
[6:11 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: ๐
[6:26 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: Can this be checked for facts!?
[6:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Angelica: Recovery at home is a good move by the government to free up space in hospitals and community wards. Data has showed that most COVID patients are asymptomatic or only slightly unwell. (98%)
So staying at home to recover or quarantine should be ok and reduce the strain on our public healthcare resources.
For those who stay with elderly I think the government has said that they can contact the quarantine officer for other arrangements. Also, this should be the minority.
I do think that we as singaporeans do need to exercise personal responsibility and take own initiative etc if covid infection happens and not just 100% rely on the government to settle all this nitty gritty.
Looking at how our cases will continue to rise, it’s not realistic to quarantine ev…
[6:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Spanish flu is carried by soldiers fighting world war 1.
No one wear mask or vaccinate or have access to medical treatment.
That's why its spreading is so fast and so deadly.
[6:36 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Spreading from continent to continent.
[6:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Agree with this - very well put. Whilst I do support the Gov in their general approach, this time around they need to curtail Public Fear that is spreading and creating anxiety.
[6:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Also countries denied they had it, only Spain admitted the problem. Gemany and UK kept it quiet because of the war.
[6:41 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Like you I am not happy with the restrictions measures because it impact livelihood and social interaction.
But looking at current infection number, hospitalisation overwhelm and the number of death compare to when we first started - I support the current government measures to tap the brake.
[6:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:46 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes if they decide to impose restrictions then also please also plan for a way out that doesn't 'surprise' us again and reimpose restrictions. This is the problem.
[6:49 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Before mass vaccination, there are 37 death among the unvaccinated.
After mass vaccination, there are 48 death majority unvaccinated, some partially vaccinated and 9 fully vaccinated.
We need to tap the brake and relook what will be the next best measures - as we tame the current covid rage down.
Doing nothing - we will be doom.
[6:51 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Hence I propose part 3 must be done to prevent future brake.
[6:52 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://www.ricemedia.co/features-seniors-not-vaccinated/
I Work With Seniors, And This Is Why Some Aren’t Getting Vaccinated
[6:57 pm, 29/09/2021] +Angelica: I think this is being overly pessimistic. I don’t think SG ‘will be doom’.
But what would happen is more burden on hospital capacity. And vulnerable people like elderly and immune compromised would be at risk. However the general population would be ok.
[6:58 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Doom refer to more death among the unvaccinated elderly or adults and may comprise all unvaccinated children.
Long covid possiblity are there.
[6:59 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/12-english-pupils-report-continuing-155417049.html
12% of English pupils report continuing Covid symptoms weeks after infection
[6:59 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: +1
[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +Joseph: +1
[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +Smiley face: "Using what one's have or access to the FULLEST..."
-- Ian T
[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Unless people treat death as nothing important.
[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Check dictionary. That's not "doom"
=======
No comments:
Post a Comment