REACH 275 - What are your views on the recent surge in COVID-19 cases? What are you doing to keep safe while going about your activities? (SK)
20 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:53 am, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! ๐
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Megan ๐
[10:03 am, 20/09/2021] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
More than 1,000 new COVID-19 infections were reported in Singapore for the second day in a row on Sunday (Sept 19). Vaccines provide excellent but imperfect protection against severe illness. The Ministry of Health’s data shows that about 0.2 per cent of infected people - or one in 500 people - are at risk of needing intensive care.
๐ฌ What are your views on the recent surge in COVID-19 cases? What are you doing to keep safe while going about your activities? Parents - in particular those with kids taking major exams - what are your views on MOE’s move to home-based learning from Sept 27 to keep the kids safe?
The number of COVID-19 patients requiring intensive care can change very quickly, said Minister Lawrence Wong on Sunday (Sept 19). Therefore, people cannot afford to be complacent and assume that intensive care unit (ICU) numbers will stay low, or that the country's ICU capacity will never be tested, he added. He urged the public to scale back on non-essential social activities, especially if they are living with seniors or are elderly themselves. MOH data shows that no one fully vaccinated and under the age of 70 has been in ICU or died from COVID-19, but unvaccinated seniors above 80 years-old are at a very high risk of falling severely ill.
Organisations serving the elderly have taken a cautious approach by reducing the number of physical interactions seniors are exposed to. The Agency for Integrated Care (AIC), said senior volunteers from its outreach arm, the Silver Generation Office, have temporarily stopped conducting physical engagements.
All primary schools will start full home-based learning for Primary 1 to 5 pupils from Sept 27 until the end of the Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE) sitting on Oct 6 amid a spike in the number of Covid-19 cases. In a statement on Saturday (Sept 18), the Ministry of Education (MOE) said that the measures will also apply to Special Education (Sped) schools offering the national curriculum.
Although Singaporeans continue to go out, many are taking more precautions like avoiding crowded areas as daily COVID-19 cases rise.
yes
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/1012-new-covid-19-cases-in-spore-second-day-in-a-row-new-infections-cross-1000-mark
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/icu-numbers-can-go-up-very-quickly-so-singapore-cannot-afford-to-be-complacent
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/full-hbl-for-primary-special-education-schools-from-sept-27-for-10
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/organisations-serving-the-elderly-cut-down-on-physical-interactions
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/singaporeans-still-out-and-about-but-more-cautious-as-daily-cases-rise
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[10:10 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Tackling current spike in Parts
Part 1 - Context
Part 2 - Superhuman Immunity
Part 3 - Nasal spray potential in stopping covid transmission and spreading
Part 4 - Transit to endemic - and ride out the current spike Versus Hospitalisation Pressure and Strain
Part 5 - As we Pilot-Test, witness sharp spike in infection - we need to do Micro Lockdown to slow the spread
Part 6 - Focus on Vaccinating the unvaccinated among the elderly and the adults who are more vulnerable
[10:11 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Tackling current spike of Delta wave
Part 1 - Context
1. Singapore have achieve high vaccination rate.
More than population 81% has 2 jabs and 85% has 1 jab - that provide the "Foundation Protection" against covid.
2. Economy and our business hub need to reopen and jobs need to be safeguarded and created.
3. Overseas public health data when reopen + high vaccination rate - provide useful data to help us to "pilot test" our transit to endemic state. Notably, Denmark with about 5.8 million population and high vaccination rate of 74% can lend a good example. Other examples like UK, EU, Israel and US with high vaccination rate plus India, Indonesia etc with lower vaccination rate but high Delta infection - help to provide useful data.
. Infection number will rise and spike.
- Hospitalisation number, serious illness or even death will also rise but not correspondingly for those Countries with high vaccination rate.
- The infection number will spike to a tipping point - which is about 70 days maximum (according to many other Countries experience) - and then start to fall.
https://www.breakingbelizenews.com/2021/09/11/with-80-vaccination-rate-denmark-declares-the-epidemic-is-under-control-and-lifts-all-local-restrictions-lessons-for-belize/
4. It is this context and many useful data - that we are pilot testing our transit to endemic without doing :-
a. A hard lockdown - like back to Heightened Alerts or Circuit Breaker
b. Let the infection number run controllably - that lead to overwhelming of hospitalisation resources with uncontrolled serious cases, oxygen support, ICU or death.
5. The pilot test I believe try to achieve :-
a. How far Delta and other covid strains can spread - with our current high vaccination rate of >80%, some social distancing measures like face mask, managed dine-in, micro-lockdown.
At what stage, Delta spreading momentun wane, reach its tipping point and start to fall to a point that Delta become endemic that cause mild or asymptomatic illness which are easily treatable.
b. How far hospitalisation resources are being used up by covid patients (breakdown into unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated) and how many need ward care, oxygen, ICU or even death.
Such data will be especially useful - as we move into endemic state.
c. Hence, I believe the Government will not slam on the brake soon as the infection number exceed 1000 - as we have yet to see all the above scenarios unfolding and capture all the necessary data for us to plan for our endemic.
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[10:15 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Part 2 - Superhuman Immunity
1. Increasingly, overseas study and our local study have discovered that if a person is infected with covid and subsequently received vaccination or vice versa - Superhuman Immunity can be achieved.
That is :-
Vaccination Immunity + Natural infection Immunity (or booster in which Israel, EU, UK and Singapore try to establish whether have the same effect) = Superhuman Immunity
https://sg.yahoo.com/news/evidence-superhuman-immunity-covid-19-092149813.html
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/getting-a-mild-infection-after-covid-19-vaccination-gives-best-protection-against
2. Superhuman Immunity is a strong immune system - that can protect against the current covid, Delta, other strains and future pandemics of coronavirus origin - because the core of the covid does not change and the body immune system learn and recognise every part of the covid to fight against it no matter how it mutate.
3. The anti-bodies can wane over time, but the B-cell (memory cell) can remember and manufacture the anti-bodies when infection is detected to fuse onto the covid and prevent covid from infecting the red cells and replicate itsef.
T-cell will also be effective to attack and kill the covid - if the covid escape the anti-bodies and infect the red cell.
4. But not suggesting people start to get reckless and become gungho by removing mask and get ourselves infected deliberately after full vaccination to gain the Superhuman immunity - because we never know how our body react to the infection.
5. The relief is, if people despite taking precaution but yet still get infected and develop mild or asypmtomatic illness - and subequently acquire Superhman Immunity - then it is a bonus.
6. Thus there is no need to panic for now as the infection number spike. We just get along with our lives especially if we are fully vaccinated, take the necessary precaution such as wearing mask properly and try not to get infected. But if unfortunately get infected, the whole household need to quarantine and if superhuman immunity acquire, then people are lucky.
Those who have children and elderly - who have yet to vaccinate - will need to be more careful not to get infected.
[10:17 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Part 3 - Nasal spray potential in stopping covid transmission and spreading
1. Early trial of nasal spray, 8 of them according to WHO, show initial good result - as it prevent covid virus from infecting the nose, mouth, air passage and the lungs --- if people apply the nasal spray on the nostrils.
https://sg.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-nasal-sprays-aim-shut-160240453.html
2. As viral load are tackle by the nasal spray vaccines at the nose, it block infection and prevent the virus from passing on to others.
3. This is the best solution so far as vaccine injection is not proven as effective in virus transmission.
4. But only 1 such nasal spray vaccine is at Phase 2 trial - and not yet ready to roll out for public use.
5. Nevertheless, Singapore should watch out very carefully on this nasal spray solutions - as a mean to stop covid infection - where vaccine injection have not prove to be totally effective.
[10:18 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Part 4 - Transit to endemic - and ride out the current spike Versus Hospitalisation Pressure and Strain
1. The current spike daily in record number (3 digits jump daily) look alarming.
2. It exceed 1,000 specifically 1,004 on 18Sep2021 (Sat) in infection number.
3. Hospitalisation = 863
Serious case = 123
Oxygen support = 105
ICU = 18
Death = 60 (1 fully vaccinated)
4. The decision whether to hold our horse - to ride out the spike in infection number to transit to endemic ---- or to slam hard on the brake to lockdown to stem the rise in infection number will be contingent on :-
a. Will our hospitalisation resources be overwhelm?
- Currently, the Government is quickly ramping up hospital beds - in general wards in hospitals, community hospitals, get more oxygen supply and more ICU resources --- in anticipating rise in hospitalisation cause by covid.
- As long as the hospital resources can cope with the rising covid patients --- I believe Government will refrain from slamming the brake and declare a hard lockdown --- as we collect important data that is necessary for endemic.
b. To holdout the current spike till 70 days (the maximum spike cycle in which Delta and other covid strains manifest - in low vaccination Countries like India, Indonesia etc to high vaccination Countries like Israel, UK, US, EU) --- and see how and whether our current covid and Delta wave spike and subside.
This wave cycle will be an extremely important data for us ---- how are we going to live with covid come endemic.
If we successfully witness the whole cycle of infection, spike and remission -- without overwhelming our hospital resources ---- then we will have all the vital data and know-how - how to live with covid in endemic.
[10:18 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Part 5 - As we Pilot-Test, witness sharp spike in infection - we need to do Micro Lockdown to slow the spread
1. While we pilot test the transit to endemic - and collect vital data on how to ride out the Delta waves - we still need to take precaution to prevent the current wave from running out of control, overwhelm our hospitalisation resources and result in too many casaulties.
2. Hence smart "Micro Lockdown" need to be implemented as situation arise eg :-
a. Primary school children (who has not yet ready to vaccinate) - do HBL (Home Based learning).
b. Elderly (especially those who have yet to vaccinate) - should avoid social interaction and stay at home.
c. Household members living with the elderly and children must also take special care not to infect the elderly and children.
d. Any cluster form - must quickly test, contact trace, ringfence and isolate.
3. Social distancing measures such as face mask, WFH (Work From Home), restricted dine-in, hygiene etc will still need to be implemented to slow the spread.
[10:19 am, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Part 6 - Focus on Vaccinating the unvaccinated among the elderly and the adults who are more vulnerable
1. Statistics have shown that full vaccination have prevented many age groups from developing serious illness, oxygen support, ICU or death.
2. Many age groups that succumb to serious illnes and even death come from the unvaccinated category and to some extent partially vaccinated category.
3. Hence focusing in giving vaccination to the unvaccinated become extremely important --- as we transit to endemic and eventually become endemic.
Local Infectious medical experts view on getting the remaining adults and elderly vaccinated :-
Frustration with those who refuse COVID-19 vaccination but making it compulsory is tricky: Infectious diseases experts
Ramping up communications to convince those on the fence, along with differentiated measures nudging more to take the shot can help get vaccination rates up, say infectious diseases experts on CNA’s Heart of the Matter podcast.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-vaccine-mandatory-safe-moh-approve-booster-2184751
4. The vaccination number has reportedly plateau and no longer rise in big number - with approximately 285,000 adults and elderly unvaccinated.
But nevertheless there are some progress last week :-
As at 17 Sep 2021, 1st jab vaccination = 4,571,939
12 Sep 2021, 1st jab vaccination = 4,556,377
(15,562 adults and elderly) have done their 1st jab.
5. That means approximately 270,000 adults and elderly left to be vaccinated.
6. More government effort, support group effort, societal effort and individual efforts need to ramp up to get the remaining 270,000 adults and elderly vaccinated - so that our hospitalisation resources, serious cases or death will be tame ---- and Singapore can safely transit to endemic.
7. Else if Singapore cannot achieve vaccinating this remaining group of adults and elderly --- we will forever face the problem of overwhelming our hospital resources ---- and Singapore will never be able to fully transit to endemic.
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[10:24 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: ๐ฌ What are your views on the recent surge in COVID-19 cases? What are you doing to keep safe while going about your activities? Parents - in particular those with kids taking major exams - what are your views on MOE’s move to home-based learning from Sept 27 to keep the kids safe?
What are your views on the recent surge in COVID-19 cases?
I will say we deserve this orbigoot. Nothing to worry since endemic let’s carry on the current policies. Don’t chicken out now!
What are you doing to keep safe while going about your activities?
Nothing special cos government encourage us who are vaccinated to get infected and it’s actually good. Dunno why we don’t do away with masks already. That way we can get infected faster and build immunity faster!
what are your views on MOE’s move to home-based learning from Sept 27 to keep the kids safe?
Why need to move to HBL? Just keep them in school otherwise parents cannot WFH then how? Who take care of the kids? Don’t bodoh leh.
[10:25 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: frankly what comments u wanna to hear....seriously
[10:25 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the frank comments from people already me most yes most give up hope
[10:26 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: they do not know what is right or wrong now locally and oversea media are singing different tunes
[10:26 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: medical pharma are like in cahoots one day say good next day the rest will say good , one say bad den follwoing week all say bad \
[10:26 am, 20/09/2021] +Dan: I saw in the news many parents asking to scrap exam to remove stress.
Is that what you are sounding out?
[10:27 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and the way our news media is dishing out experts view applauding ....
[10:27 am, 20/09/2021] +Dan: I have the same question as Kevin, what comments u wanna hear.
[10:28 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if the experts wants to us to treat this as a normal flu and chicken pox .. is a JOKE
[10:28 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: seriously a JOKE...
[10:28 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: pardon me if this is the next approch PLEASE DUN USE IT ON PUBLIC, GET ALL THE BEST BRAINS AND ECNOMOICALLY influence ppl to infect first
[10:29 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: this is seriously the biggest wet blanket pour on the public , if you do not know this is suggestion irks many on the ground
[10:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: when people are dying, infection rates are up, toddlers and pre schoolers at risk, suddenly come up with this idea ...
[10:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: frankly the ground is not blind nor death,
[10:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: many felt we have lost it
[10:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: like an earlier contributor says why not remove all restriction
[10:31 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dun even wear mask
[10:31 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry to input negative stuff
[10:32 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but that's what i had been gathering when i strike up conversation with people on covid
[10:33 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: This is basically the ground sentiments since two weeks ago but it’s ok the experts know best for all of us to get infected
[10:35 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: before i get ban, and no offense to the task force > you have lost the confidence of the people. people are starting to run around headless, confused by the media the words of experts and how they should protect their young ones or even NOT protect. Stop all the words, the actions in the society does not tally with the direction
[10:35 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: already suggested to secure the society confidence so we work as one and conservatively but no a little results all big head.....
[10:36 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 3rd wave do we need to see a 4th ? at this rate i say yes 4th 5th ....and maybe 6th
[10:42 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: My only advise to MMTF is the two following steps.
1) Show confidence of existing policy and continue opening up and resume back to “normal” and truly let us reach the Endemic state. Show confidence with more ppl getting infected with Covid since they are already vax, would be more convincing if one MP is also infected since they are all vax and show to the nation that the symptoms are mild and no side effects to encourage more ppl to get infected.
2) Circuitbreaker
[11:00 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: You points don't make sense. Look at the published numbers and proof the point of effectiveness of vaccination. For point 2, a big no from the business and economic perspective and will drain our reserves. I believe you are speaking from emotion
[11:02 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Countries are setting vaccination rate to open up and we don't ?
[11:04 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes so choose 1
[11:04 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: There are two drastic paths
[11:04 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Choose one and stick with it
[11:06 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: The choice is clear. We hit the vaccination rate and open up. We will see a rise in infection rate and we deal with it as long the death rate is low . Convince those unvaccinated to get the vaccine. We cannot allow the minority to hold back the majority
[11:06 am, 20/09/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/4mXLeXToJ7c
Lesson #3
[11:17 am, 20/09/2021] +Liew@SG: Maybe good to also taken into consideration of population density per km-square between contries when comparing ?
[11:21 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes I agree so why HBL now?
[11:25 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: The only category not protected is the children. Expect that the vaccine for them will be ready by this year
[11:25 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Seriously, why is it tt whenever the gov makes an announcement to do sth, ther must be a lead time?
Why wait till 27 Sep? Why can't u start mid week or earlier?
Since it was the weekend, why can't u enforce the HBL on, say Tue 21 Sep?
As I say this, wat I got over the past weekend is a surge in infection cases in several schools all over the island!
Obviously then, tt was the catalyst for such announcement to be made.
So, since parents & the schools r alredi aware of the situation, why can't the new safety measures start almost immediately !!??
I m an educator myself and hv students in the affected schools, including a nephew.
Since the gov has alredi decided for us the best way fwd, they shd not wait too long to implement them.
History has shown tt tardiness in implemention of safety measures has caused more disruption than short notice - eg. closing our borders to the Delta variant.
I think ther was a week's time lag btn announcement and implementation.
If the Gov is afraid of creating dissent among us, then shorten the notice period, like I suggested here, 1-2 days, instead of one week.
Tt is my observation & wat I hv bn wanting to say for a long time!
[11:27 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: then what of their parents? cannot WFH leh
[11:27 am, 20/09/2021] +Ken Loh: All moves are consider with consideration of people and support as well as the coffers of the country.
Only can say it is not easy. And weekend see so many people out there like no covid ๐คท๐ป♂️
[11:27 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Let's not forget the parents who some need to arrange their sechedule with company
[11:28 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Ah, yes...
Sori abt tt - that is why I say, gv 1-2 days' notice, so they can make some arrangements.
๐
[11:28 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: One week is too long.
The virus does not wait.
[11:29 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Expect the parents to be vaccinated ? Most are operating 50% WFH except for those who can't
[11:29 am, 20/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Errr I doubt so really
[11:29 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: u very sure!!!????
[11:29 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry i am on the road most days of the road can tell u if like pre covid days
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Agree . 2 days to allow for arrangement
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some companies i know are asking people to go back since months ago when it allow 50%
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: also some stubborn staff just keep going back to office even when is a lock down
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Also, ther is the provision in the rec measures for some sch to stay open to facilitate those parents who hv trouble finding assistance w their kids .
So parents can make use of this to buy more time to get their schedules sorted out.
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: all adults mostly vax but still need to go to work
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Very sure as my company is operating at 50% for those who can
[11:30 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is ur company
[11:31 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but socially there are many are going to back to work
[11:31 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hear the voices when remark on train is .....
[11:31 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Maybe mental well being. My daughter goes to office once a week
[11:31 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus a few contributors are saying is look like post covid recently
[11:32 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: We must move there or our mindset will not able to change to endemic
[11:32 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: which is very risky as people are letting their gaurd down
[11:32 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Totally agree
[11:32 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus we are seeing the infection
[11:33 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: need not medical expert we can observe this virus is a social virus like us human
[11:33 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the more people interact it will ingect regardless u have or dun have vaccine
[11:33 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: not to say we must close down
[11:33 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but restrictive measure have to come in
[11:34 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: this bump was after relaxing the measures
[11:34 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: If you notice, usually the youngster like to go out and interact more than those with families
[11:34 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus it should clearly the restriction of people to miggle does help (bad idea ya)
[11:35 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: totally agree and they are also the one that tries to break the rules of the game
[11:35 am, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: seems to be an achievement for them
[11:35 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: this I can accept. My daughter is going out for dinner tonight and interact with others. So ....
[11:36 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: I can't stop her, it's for her mental well being. She is a social type
[11:37 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Question... Singaporeans who test positive but are not unwell can isolate at home. Singaporeans returning from overseas who test negative have to spend $2k on hotel quarantine. How is that fair and logical?
[11:38 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Policy need to review
[11:39 am, 20/09/2021] +Caleb: Cause it may not be delta variant?
[11:40 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I don't understand.
[11:41 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: I have colleagues who just want to come in to office because of various reasons like home not condusive or just want to be in office to feel that he is working. But very worried of MOM has they conduct check frequently
[11:42 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Why ask someone to quarantine for 2 weeks when they are negative and well, but let someone who is positive stay at home?
[11:42 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Currently, I m out 4x a week for work purposes.
When I was out recently, I hv seen..
* ppl wearing their masks below their noses
* ppl strolling / walking, without masks on sidewalks
* adult parent masked but young 4yo child not masked . The father is going ard the coffee shop to get food, while he keeps an eye in his unmasked 4yo son running ard the whole place. This lasted for the best part of half an hour, where in the boy came close by me while he was playing with some birds nearby....
* Adult parent (masked) pushing pram w baby ( unmasked) and gg shopping for at mall.
* FDW sitting in void decks talking loudly into their hp, with their masks off .
* FDW returning hm after grocery shopping, w masks swinging from ear to ear .
(Wonder wat they were doing b4 tt?)
.... and the list goes on...
Is it laissez-faire (cos they're vax alredi),
or ppl just seem not to care any more
or have they just 'accepted' the sitn?
[11:43 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: In the UK 1/2 million people a week go to the football matches no masks, no social distancing, all shouting and cheering.
[11:44 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: ๐คฆ๐ผ♀️๐คฆ๐ผ♀️๐ฑ๐ฑ
[11:44 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: In Singapore parents are banned from watching their kids play.
[11:45 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Although UK is not a good example, I'm beginning to think we are being over cautious.
[11:46 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: In France there is v little mask wearing, no social distance. Must have vaccine to go to restaurant. Other than that life is normal.
[11:46 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I see the world getting back to normal, with sensible precautions.
[11:47 am, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: I agree with the observation. It is complacency with the thinking that vaccines totally provide protection from infection. Vaccines as of now reduces fatalities to a very low rate but newer mutations seem to be more infectious compared to the original COVID-19 virus.
[11:47 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: My friends 6 year old had fever, tested positive for covid . She was fully recovered in 2 days.
[11:47 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Also, I hv heard of one case recently wher a particular person went out to keep her lunch date w fren, despite being put on SHN.
Her daughter-in-law had tested positive.
But without waiting for her own results to be out, she went out.
Subsequently, she tested positive.
Now my fren, who had lunch w this woman, has bn put on SHN.
Such socially irresponsible ppl are among us!!
[11:48 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: keep kalm
[11:48 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Things are different with the vaccine, but we need to be cautious. I do worry we are being too protective.
[11:48 am, 20/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: it's good to be infected since most of us are likely already vax
[11:49 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I now know a few people who have tested positive for covid. They are all vaccinated. They were unwell for a few days but now have no effects.
[11:50 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I don't want to get covid, nor my kid, or my elderly mother.
[11:50 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: But equally I want us to have a life. Right now the restrictions are becoming too much to bear, for little risk of harm
[11:51 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Cannot travel, cannot socialise, can't go to office, celebrate birthdays, play sports, go to cinema etc etc
[11:51 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: When does this end? What is the goal?
[11:53 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: We got vaccinated and were told we works stop being obsessed with daily cases.
[11:53 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐
I'm limiting my social interactions.
[11:53 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: But here we are, hundreds of cases yes but people not seriously ill. And back to lock down for the kids.
[11:54 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Quarantine for negative travellers, but positive cases can stay home
[11:54 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Are we over reacting?
[11:55 am, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: I talk to a French guy via zoom and discuss on some business in this region. He is concern that he cannot do anything in this region because of border restriction and surprise that we aim for low number of infection. They are accepting infection rate of 20,000 as normal. I am not saying we accept such a high number and I think the french accept it is in relation to their population number. EU is opening when they hit a vaccination target and soon
[11:55 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Are we closing ourselves off and damaging our economy for the right reasons?
[11:55 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Er... Can try to do Zoom type, virtual celeb, just to keep in touch, and for one's sanity?
I know it's not the same as F2F.
But still, better than nothing...
I recently did a Zoom bd celeb.
It was quite "fun" & a boost to my sanity. ๐
[11:56 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Yes,, but we have been doing this for 18 months already. Soon 2 years..?
[11:56 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: ๐คท♀️ Haiz.
[11:56 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: And personally, it's unnecessary to be so restrictive, considering we are vaccinated and won't fall ill.
[11:57 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Precisely
[11:57 am, 20/09/2021] +RH: Possibility of getting infected is ther.
Just tt u won't be hit so badly.
[11:58 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: EU is taking a very pragmatic approach That is what Singapore has traditionally been very good at.
[11:58 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: We are becoming an inward and isolationist country.
[11:59 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: We will not be attractive to business.
[11:59 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: People will not want to come here
[11:59 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Even if they were allowed!
[11:59 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Vaccinated. Test negative on departure, negative on arrival, but still need 2 weeks quarqntine???
[11:59 am, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Why?
[0:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Especially when actual positive cases can just stay home.
[0:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Make no sense and harmful to our businesses.
[0:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Harmful to those with families overseas.
[0:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Lol i already said that in May
[0:02 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, and now we are 85% vaccinated! Very rare that people are seriously ill! People who test negative and are vaccinated are not ill and so not spread the virus.
[0:02 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Why quarantine them?
[0:04 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Cause it is still a norm to quarantined… if death cause of open up… who we will blame? ๐คฃ
[0:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Then why let positive people stay home and quarantine negative people?
[0:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ken Loh: ๐คท๐ป♂️ that I not expert… not sure
[0:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: It was normal to have positive people warded, they changed it. They can change that for negative people too.
[0:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Exactly
[0:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Makes no sense
[0:13 pm, 20/09/2021] +Suma pamu: For HBL part
What i felt is
Its not about That to reduce transmission in school
Nope
Imagine
In mid of exams If any student got Infection,
The children will be Under tremendous stress
Not only children
Its about school staff
For that Reason they PURPOSELY opted for HBL only that exams period.
Of caring about Children health..
Should have implemented Hbl last month itself
It is about EXAMS
to make Sure Exams Will be Conducted in all schools
(Does not matter for them if few children QO and unable to write exams)
[0:15 pm, 20/09/2021] +Sally: So the negative people will get infected by the positive people
[0:15 pm, 20/09/2021] +Suma pamu: And If going Endemic way
The FIRST THING TO DO IS
NOT TO TEST THOSE ASYMPTOTIC
(Only encourage those who work/living with elderly ill patients to take regualr test)
Others SHOULF NOT BE GET TESTED.!
If testing asymptotic
Then please don't say we moving to Endemic!!
[0:17 pm, 20/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Sorry my bad.. my auto key board ๐คฆ๐ฝ♀️
Asymptomatic
[0:17 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I agree, and understand this. Exams are everything here. Let's not risk messing that up for the kids.
[0:20 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Clear from this chat that no one understands the logic of quarantine for vaccinated, multi-negative-tested returning citizens, while those who test positive stay home.
[0:22 pm, 20/09/2021] +Suma pamu: +1
[0:23 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Dr Ong Eu Jin Roy, a family physician in Singapore, says medical workers are nearing exhaustion.
“We’ve been enduring, but there has to be an endpoint where we can see the goal post,” Ong said. “When the government wants us to open up and be endemic, I think that’s great, because really we are reaching the end of our limits. You cannot be in a heightened alert state where the adrenaline is going every day that you go in. It cannot go on.”
[0:24 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/20/can-we-live-with-covid-19-singapore-tries-to-show-how
[0:26 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Our vaccinations success makes us attractive for business,, but our border policy for vaccinated negative test arrivals make us impossible to work with.
[0:45 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Good to know that your friend's child recovered quickly from CV19.
However, we need to much more than anecdotal data from 1 case to conclude that CV19 does not seriously affect children. Also, we do not know if/what are the long covid implications.
I personally would prefer to err on the side of caution until my und-12 child is fully vaccinated, especially since this will potentially start early next year.
[0:48 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Yes me too! 100% agree. The point was not about 1 case. I too won't travel with my child until he is vaccinated.
[0:56 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I think this decision is based on logistics and hospital/medical capacity/considerations.
The G had already explained that the reason for home QO for positive cases is to free up hospital beds (capacity) in anticipation of the rise in severe cases requiring hospital/intensive care as the number of infections rise.
SG patients can serve home QO maybe because we already know which strain/nutation the patient will be infected with, since the infection is spread locally. So far the vaccines have shown to be effective in preventing severe symptoms against the known variants present in SG.
Travellers from abroad may be carriers of a new (unknown) variant/mutation that may have a longer incubation period/dealier/more infectious etc. Therefore, it may be more prudent to keep them away from the local population for a period of time.
I may be wrong.. but these were the first thoughts that came to mind ...
[1:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Yes I tried to apply this logic, but it doesn't make sense. Having people who are positive but not ill stay home is logical to free up hospitals, yes. But they why force vaccinated citizens who test negative to go to a hotel room for 2 weeks, spending $2,000? Having completed 2 negative tests, and being vaccinated - is there really a risk far greater than a person who actually tests positive?
[1:02 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: It is keeping families apart, unless they can afford to pay the quarantine bill and be away from work for 2 extra weeks. It's totally unfair.
[1:03 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Surely the risk of a positive person being at home (unmonitored) is far greater than a vaccinated person who tests negative.
[1:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Just ... in .. case ... since they are coming back from a foreign land, where the restrictions are more laxed, and vaccination rates are lower ie. highly chance of incubators/carriers of new mutations/variants ... just like how even if you want to leave your dog/cat with your neighbour if you are going away for a while, you do not need to place your dog/cat in quarantine first ... but if you brought your dog/cat overseas with you for holiday, when you come back, your dog/cat needs to be quarantined first before being allowed back home
[1:08 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: far greater in terms of infecting/spreading the virus .. but less dangerous since the likelihood is that he/she is infected with a "domestic" known strain/variant which we know, the current vaccine - which >80% of the eligible population has already taken - is effective in preventing severe symptoms
[1:10 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Seems like an assumption with no evidence to back it up. Yes, careful, but are there any cases in the world of a 2 week incubation? Seems like a line drawn too deep and at a cost too high.
[1:10 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: just my guess ... if you agree, maybe it will make you less upset .. if you don't, that's fine too, course I am not insisting that is true/right .. hopefully someone else will be able to provide you with an explanation that you can accept and help you be less upset over
[1:12 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: We are here to debate serious issues for our country. It's not about you making me be less 'upset' I understand this is your guess, just as we all make guesses. In fact we are making guesses about this because the logic is not there! I appreciate your thoughts and comments however.
[1:14 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Seeing how pre-pandemic, travel/holiday promo events are always packed with people who are willing to q hours to make a payment to secure thousand $ holiday packages... I am a bit skeptical about how a $2k quarantine fee that covers accommodation/meals is the main obstacle to a family reunion... esp. after 2 years of savings from being unable to travel for holidays ๐ again.. i may be wrong
[1:20 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I do wonder if the purpose for quarantine is to ensure income for the hotels. We would be better suited to allow vaccinated, multi-negative tests tourists into the country so the hotels can be funded from overseas money, rather than from our own citizens. Or maybe reduce quarantine to 3 days which seems to be a fairer and more logical approach?
[1:20 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: It's $2k, plus 2 additional weeks away from home/work....
[1:21 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: That's quite a barrier!
[1:21 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: You don't see the logic .. you get upset .. you spam the chat with angry messages .. berating the authorities for making stupid illogical decisons .. I suggest a reason which you obviously have never considered, which, if you are being rational, will realise at least has some truth to it, but somehow refuse to accept.
What I am saying is not rocket science, so I believe its easy to understand ... the problem it seems, is that you prefer to be angry that the G is stupid illogical, when implementing that rule, and insisting I have no evidence to support what I suggested could be the reason, allows you to continue to be angry. Unfortunately, the G is not going to change their mind just because a few people are angry ๐
[1:23 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: they were encouraging staycations before this. Remember the vouchers that everyone got that can be used to pay for staycations?
And also .. if that is what they wanted to do, they just need to mandate that all QO for people tested positive will have to be done in designated hotels .. not at home.
[1:24 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: then don't travel overseas unnecessarily?
[1:24 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I think you are getting very personal and I don't know why.
[1:25 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Is seeing family unnecessary to you? Fair enough. To others it is an important part of life.
[1:25 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I am not getting personal... I am merely responding to what you are saying.
[1:27 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: OK.
[1:28 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I am not angry. I am questioning a policy that I don't understand and feel that has a negative impact on people's lives. If you don't understand that OK. If you think it's a good policy OK. I am not saying you are stupid, or angry, or illogical. I am not making statements about your state of mind.
[1:29 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I didn't say seeing family is unnecessary... but I think we all need to also consider the bigger picture.
The restrictions are in place to assure those who are worried about travellers coming back with variants/mutations that may cause more infections/death/lockdowns etc
Seeing family is important, but so is keeping everyone else safe .. .thats why the G is allowing travel... but with the requirement to serve QO at a designated facility when the person returns.
[1:30 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: We are still learning to live with a raging and evolving pandemic .. so inconveniences/restrictions will remain and evolve accordingly
[1:31 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Sure, but it is inconsistent with allowing people who test positive to stay home. The bigger picture is that we have all been suffering this last 18 months. We no longer 'keep people safe at all costs' since we allow Positive people to stay home. I am questioning if it is neccessary to require a 2 week quarantine for returning citizens who are vaccinated and test negative multiple times.
[1:32 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: I don't want to be accused of spamming the group (which I am not) so don't wish to continue this right now, unless there is something new to talk about.
[1:32 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Well, thanks for that insight.
[1:33 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: That is exactly what I see/hear .. that you don't understand .. because you keep repeating that phrase ... so all I did, was share what I thought made sense to me, and left it to you to decide if it makes sense to you too .. so, now I see.. that, what made sense to me .. does not make sense to you .. and you still do not understand why this why that blah blah blah .. .
So... maybe, 1 ,more thing for you ... the G is not going to change their policy just because you/me/us "don't understand" .. ๐
[1:33 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Sure, but maybe they will communicate what the purpose of the policy is, in respect of the other policies in place.
[1:33 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: You don't need to type in bold by the way.
[1:36 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: Maybe just let me have a go at this, sharing my own 2.14c worth
[1:36 pm, 20/09/2021] +Valli: +1
[1:39 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: i type in bold to emphasize my point .. you do you.. I do me .. ๐
[1:48 pm, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: From employee perspective:-
1. Keep safe , wear mask , social distancing , WFH when possible and get vaccinated
2. Do your part for the company and pray hard for business to be fine
From Employer perspective:-
1. Needs a lot of resilience: The start , stop and restart again etc. Daily changing covid situation to adapt to. Reporting requirement for Covid. Surprise visit from Government agencies. Employee kena Covid… all the administrative work and reporting plus deep clean. Each of this, need to bounce back and carry on
2. Needs a lot of innovation: Think and change fast legally or else die faster.
3. Needs a lot of team work: One person can’t think and innovate. Needs the company and support
4. Needs a lot of leadership: All staffs look at you for direction…
[1:48 pm, 20/09/2021] +Thomas: Something light from each perspectives
[1:57 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: http://go.gov.sg/home-recovery
Just a few points re this home recovery policy:
1. It is for "COVID-19 patients who are medically stable and suitable" (iirc, by that it should be referring to patients whose viral load has alr significantly reduced to a level such that they are less likely to be contagious, need to pull for another article if want details).
2. "Household members whom COVID-19 patient are of close contact with will be placed under Home Quarantine Order (HQO)" and "during their HQO, they should not come into contact with others who are not on quarantine order to prevent the potential spread of the virus to the rest". May be unmonitored, but restricted movement.
In view of these and other factors like vax rate, I think the gov is of the opinion t…
[1:59 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: Having said that, do understand and empathise with those who are faced with QO upon return from overseas ๐๐ผ
[1:59 pm, 20/09/2021] +An fan: I think the government has no time to review this policy yet, as they are too busy handling increasing COVID-19 cases locally.
[2:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: think about it this way
[2:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: even after QO cases do surface
[2:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and right now medical resources are already feeling the pressure from this few hundreds of cases daily
[2:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: So if test positive on arrival, can go and QO at home rather than hotel? ๐๐
[2:02 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: imagine a rouge variant came in via a returning person from oversea and have a sweeping infection rate what will happen to the society? Changi import cluster version 2.0?
[2:03 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: imagine indeed! Although I hope we are not leaving policy making to imagination and basing decisions on evidence. ๐
[2:03 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: I think the flow will be hospital and then home recovery if eligible tbh haha, but it means you would have gotten covid lol
[2:03 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Waiver of foreign worker levies during SHN extended till end December: MOM
The waiver of foreign worker levies for S Pass and work permit holders for the duration of their stay-home notice (SHN) period will be extended to the end of the year, said Manpower Minister Tan See Leng on Monday (Sept 20).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/waiver-of-foreign-worker-levies-during-shn-extended-till-end-december-mom
[2:03 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so frankly i agree to the current policy put in place in deed
[2:03 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I may be wrong, but I suspect the Delta variant managed to creep in because travelers from overeeas - SG, PR, WP, family members - were allowed to serve QO at home.
I mentioned previously.... I know someone who had an encounter with a neighbour, PR/WP holder, who just returned to SG after a trip overseas.... was supposed to serve QO at home, but the encounter took place in the lift, while the person was on her way out ๐ณ
[2:04 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: That's a risk that we are guarding against highly as well due to its potential huge impact from risk management pov
[2:04 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Rather a bit of inconvenience then to clear the shit to appease some corners of the society
[2:04 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: True - even on QO you have to leave the premises to get tested 3 times, as far as I know.
[2:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: totally unless the direction is like what experts says please go get infected cos it will make u super human
[2:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: den yeah
[2:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no need shn
[2:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no need qo for both internal and external people ya all can celebrate sg-freedom day
[2:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: Agree, there will always be gaps, but we try our best to close up all the gaps possible, and it also takes time to observe and adjust policies (back then delta may have been quite new and we were not aware of its higher contagious nature)
[2:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: ๐๐๐ผ
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: note we are dealing with delta variant here ..... so is a upper class delta
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: One gap is having positive tested people at home with others, but we have to make adjustments and allowances, right?
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: those western countries they can say what they want
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: we need to look after ourselves
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: If you caught CV19 locally ... you are most likely infected with the known variants - delta being the most prevalent currently - and the current vaccines have shown to be effective against it.
If you caught something else Overseas, it might (might not) be able to evade the current vaccine and cause more damage.
So it makes sense to have more stringent QO restrictions for incoming travelers compared to local/onshore residents who did not potentially catch a foreign variant.
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if our society is to be closed for another 1 mth because we react to their comments
[2:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: who will save us
[2:08 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: France/ UK/ USA? some in some white holy airraft with spots lights and say come singapore i will save u ....
[2:08 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - although there is no evidence that has ever happened. But you are right it could.
[2:09 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed - no more lockdown!
[2:09 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Although we might need to if cases go up, right?
[2:10 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: This yes, like the gov mentioned before, our approach is risk-based, and usu in risk mgmt risk is measured on 2 metrics, likelihood and impact. For home recovery, I think the impact is limited (due to restricted movement) and likelihood is low (due to the conditions to be met before you are eligible for home recovery like less likely to be contagious). As for QO, impact is high (should there be a even more contagious variant) and likelihood is moderate (covid is evolving literally everyday). Just sharing what I know ah ๐๐ผ✌๐ผ
[2:11 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: We are, aren't we? After all we developed the vaccine by ourselves, made all the medical gear here, trained everyone. Who needs to work with other countries to solve the problem?
[2:11 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: Self-reliance is the best reliance ๐
[2:14 pm, 20/09/2021] +ysum: Yupp, as well as monitoring the load on healthcare resources and hence all these measures, so as to avoid another CB as much as possible, pretty much one of the critical objectives I think due to its vast implications in all sectors and aspects of life
[2:24 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Cherry picking comments, making straw man arguments and sarcasm with intentional misinterpretation .... unhelpful and unnecessary i feel ๐
[2:40 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Hands up to the the sarcasm. Can't reply to every comment, so have to cherry pick. Not sure what you mean about Straw Man and Misrepresentation.
[2:52 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: you are even cherry picking within comment ... sarcasm is sometimes necessary .. my statement however, was "sarcasm with intentional misinterpretation"
You picked up on "Ah Heng's" comment that "we need to look after ourselves" and replied with comments that twisted completely, the meaning and context of what was being said.
You intentionally made a sarcastic comment knowing full well, that the message was the complete opposite of what was implied. Instead of addressing the main issue, you did so with a false/different one, because frankly, there should not have been any negative thing to say to an otherwise positive comment, if not for it being intentionally taken out of context. That's what a straw man argument is. And that is what I suggest doing less of.
[2:53 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Make peace!
[2:53 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Make war with covid.
[2:53 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Seems to me the only thing you are sure of, is that you want to be angry ๐
[2:53 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Make peace among humanity.
[2:55 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Covid viruses are very United to defeat humanity defence.
Covid viruses are very effective in dividing humanity.
[2:56 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
To defeat covid virus, humanity must unite and not divide.
[3:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: just goes to show like any society we can have differences but when crisis our society cannot comes together with a common factor my point is right
[3:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Yes bro.. I am trying to unite with a brethren who is lost and angered by what seems to me, are nothing more than a misunderstanding... I didn't insist that anyone agree/accept what i said .. do look closely.. .one of us however, is saying he does not accept... or "understand" ... regardless ๐ ๐
anyway.. a bit busy now .. will check back later ... ๐
[3:01 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: this is not good for a tiny puny country like us ...
[3:02 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: maybe is better we bring back social studies to school hahahaha
[3:05 pm, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: We already have social studies in secondary syllabus. Only thing is the focus on civic education is lacking. Most of what I perceive in the current social studies syllabus is the historical successes instead of the moral values and thinking that ought to be the emphasis.
[3:06 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: old days social studies is in primary school and is on values and respect....
[3:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: historical success sounds like some history lesson hopefully they did not mixed up with History subject hahaha
[3:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Ah yes, the good old days. Where has that gone now?
[3:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: ages gone with the wind
[3:07 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no more
[3:08 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus our small monster now are devils
[3:08 pm, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Just too bad for us, now
[3:08 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: everyting they know about the society is from youtube, tiktok which are pretty toxic
[3:14 pm, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: And it’s going to get worse because the internet has no “cheng hu”. It’s like a pandora box , very difficult to fight back now
[3:16 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus is the internet
[3:16 pm, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Good actors and bad actors have equal megaphone on the internet. Now the US is suffering from making this mistake.
[3:16 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: u lock it den ppl will say china or north korea
[3:17 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus i always share technology is a double edge sword
[3:18 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: likw how covid information is made avalible ready which one is real which one is fake
[3:20 pm, 20/09/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Trouble is, technology is neutral, morality is not
[3:40 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe focus on the topic and not your perception of my state of mind. I am flattered, but really feel this forum is better at trying to resolve Singapore's concerns. ๐
[3:46 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Thank you for your concern. I appreciate you feel it is a misunderstanding and trying to reach out. I am not lost and not angry. Please be reassured about that. We are here to discuss important topics and I am focused on issues that affects many of us Singaporeans, and the country at large. Our border control under the concerns of Covid, is important to us all. I feel there are inconsistencies that are damanging to the country. I am a supporter of the Gov and the measure being taken to handle this crises. Equally that doesn't prevent me from highlighting areas I feel can be re-looked at. I am concerned for people's mental health, their relationships with family, with children's access to overseas Grandparents and our internal social structures. I realise Cov…
[3:55 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion.
Megan
[3:57 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Most public hospitals saw more A&E patients in past week compared with past month: MOH
Some patients requiring admission have had to wait longer for beds, with most emergency departments (EDs) at public hospitals kept busier in the past week compared with the month before, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) on Monday (Sept 20).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/most-public-hospitals-saw-more-ae-patients-in-past-week-compared-with-past-month
[4:11 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Vaccinated Travel Lane scheme to be expanded soon, 1 Covid-19 case detected among 900 travellers
Vaccinated travellers from more countries are likely able to enter Singapore without having to quarantine "in the coming weeks and months".
This comes after a successful start to the Vaccinated Travel Lane (VTL), with only one Covid-19 case detected among some 900 travellers who have come in under the scheme.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/vaccinated-travel-lane-scheme-to-be-expanded-soon-1-covid-19-case-detected-among
[4:18 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: ๐๐๐๐ฅฐ
[5:23 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Antigen rapid test kits sold out at some pharmacies and retailers in S'pore amid spike in Covid-19 cases
SINGAPORE - Antigen rapid test (ART) kits are in short supply, with some pharmacies and retailers reporting that their stocks have been sold out amid a spike in daily coronavirus cases.
More: https://str.sg/3SKL
[5:24 pm, 20/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Lets hope this does not become like the shortage of masks situation we faced at the initial stages of the pandemic ๐๐
[5:37 pm, 20/09/2021] +Caleb: Seems like Gov is shock of the spike if cases
[5:46 pm, 20/09/2021] +Smiley face: [ Photo ]
Updated 19/9/21
734 Hospitalised: 403 FV + 331 Not FV
118 Need Oxygen: 60 FV + 58 Not FV
21 in ICU: 7 FV + 14 Not FV
https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/update-on-local-covid-19-situation-(19-sep-2021)
[5:53 pm, 20/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Looks like Fully vaccinated people getting complacent...
[5:55 pm, 20/09/2021] +Nee: There are far more fully vaccinated individuals than unvaccinated ones. So absolute numbers are misleading
[5:57 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: cos vaccinated can go out eat mah
[5:58 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: c19 social virus .. once mask off
[5:58 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ah Heng: think this is one of the main reason compare this to the time when only 2 allow to go eat per table
[6:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: yes, % of vax people who are ICU is a tiny number compared to unvax.
[6:05 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
270,000 unvaccinated contribute to 331 hospitals, 58 oxygen, 14 ICU.
4.57 million fully vaccinated contribute to 403 hospitals, 60 oxygen, 7 ICU.
All above 70 years old.
Conclusion :- 3rd jab booster shot for 60 years and above - as anti-bodies wane.
[6:34 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
270,000 unvaccinated in hospitals and serious cases consist of age groups 30 years and above.
And 40 years and above for partially vaccinated.
Fully vaccinated are 70 years and above.
Thus 3rd jab booster shot to help 70 year and above - will have plugged the hospitalisation gap for fully vaccinated.
[6:35 pm, 20/09/2021] +Ben: Wow, very interesting stats. Thanks for sharing.
[6:45 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:54 pm, 20/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Therefore we can go endemic with very minimal hospitalisation, serious illness or death - if we are able to:-
1. Give 3rd booster shot to 60 years and above.
2. Fully vaccinate all the remaining 270,000 adults and elderly plus all the young children.
Thus full vaccination is the key!
If the government successfully achieve 100% vaccination - Singapore can happily live with covid and declare endemic.
Hence use whatever method, whatever approach, whatever pattern to get the remaining people vaccinated.
Any 1 Vaccinated, is 1 life safe.
Understand SAF even activate SAF doctors and medic to visit elderly to help to jab. Well done, 400 over more lives have been save.
Our remaining target 270,000 we must persist resolutely........
[6:59 pm, 20/09/2021] +Jerick Tan: Joseph, I really appreciate your contributions to the discussion, and have learned a lot. But I'd like to advise you on something which I think you could improve on:
Could you stop positing that Ben is angry? You've been stating that as a fact that pretty frequently. What makes you so certain, that even after @Ben has calmly clarified multiple times, you still insist that he is? The burden of proof is on you. Same with your assertion that he was "moaning".
You project a lot of stereotypes on him. I think that's really unnecessary. Just focus on his arguments.
[6:59 pm, 20/09/2021] +Smiley face: 20 September, 2021
To: Our Distinguished Ministers and All Honorable Members
"The Darling, The Daring Ones And Their Decisions... "
Lessons:
“You begin your journey not knowing where it will take you. You have plans, you have dreams, but every now and again you have to take uncharted roads, face impassable mountains, cross treacherous rivers, be blocked by landslides and earthquakes. That's the way my life has been.”
-- Lee Kuan Yew
Steady:
Not playing smart or not seizing chances may result in missed opportunities.
Singapore has always been the admirable Darling to many world leaders and nations for our public housing policies, a knowledge based education and relevant trainings, integration of resources to strategic economic infrastructures - city & town plannings, labor unions, transportations, air & sea ports, telecommunications and financial centre.
Singapore, the Daring, solved many real lives challenges of the 1960s to the 1990s and rose above all with each economics transformation from our independence days to the recent years, all have attributed to the sum of lasting positive impressions among many countries; to learn or to emulate or to adopt these successes into theirs.
The keys in these over and again successful initiatives, perhaps are the sum of planning, timing, calibration and decisiveness at each station of our social and economic developments.
As for now and the future, yes we can, simply because we have the mixture, the formula and importantly a steady foundation to build on and grow - Uniquely SG!
https://youtu.be/4mXLeXToJ7c
Afterwords:
If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours sharpening my ax."
-- Abraham Lincoln
"What's next, feels the bottom and please BOUNCE UP! "
-- Ian T
- - END - -
[7:00 pm, 20/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
======
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