REACH 270 - Which of the new additional measures impact you the most? How can we continue to play our part to break the chain of transmission? (SK)

8 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:49 am, 08/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

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[10:00 am, 08/09/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Social gatherings at workplaces will not be allowed from today (Sep 8), with tougher action to be taken if workers are found to be infected. In particular, employers will be required to implement a snap 14 day work from home requirement if a COVID-19 case is detected at a workplace as soon as possible, and no later than 1 day after the positive test result. A follow up plan must also be put in place, with employers adopting precautionary measures upon being notified. 

💬 Which of the new additional measures impact you the most? How can we continue to play our part to break the chain of transmission? 

These are part of the new measures announced on Monday (Sep 6) to buy the country time to get more people vaccinated, and slow down transmission without having to go back to a state of heightened alert, or a circuit breaker. 

The Ministry of Health (MOH) on Monday (Sep 6) said that recent clusters in workplace settings have emerged because of lax safe management measures, especially in areas such as staff canteens and pantries, where people tend to let their guard down and interact without their masks on. 

Tougher action will be taken if there are positive cases among workers who are infected, the ministry said. 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/immediate-14-day-wfh-for-firms-if-infected-workers-returned-to-office-in-past-week-mom 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/no-social-gatherings-at-spore-workplaces-from-sept-8-tougher-action-if-covid-19-cases 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/expanded-testing-health-risk-warnings-and-alerts-among-new-measures-to-control 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/2000-new-daily-infections-in-a-months-time-if-current-rate-of-spread-continues 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/reduce-non-essential-social-activities-for-next-two-weeks-lawrence-wong

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[10:39 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I don’t really understand what is happening. Why the tightening of restrictions again? We are basically vaccinated. There is nothing more we can do. We were told vaccination would create an endemic state. Yes, people will get infected, but not fall seriously ill.

[10:40 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: What is the end game?

[10:42 am, 08/09/2021] +Jack: What about those your kids, baby and maybe those age people who cannot be vaccinated? They are at high risks. At least I am very concerned for my baby and young kid

[10:42 am, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: It’s a game of numbers. No matter how many vaccinated if in large numbers of infection surely many will become critical condition one

[10:43 am, 08/09/2021] +Sam: The issue is vaccinated individual still can get infected. They can infect the unvaccinated.  Unvaccinated individual can die of covid. The balance 20% yet to be vaccinated is still a lot of people. We need to stay vigilant. There should be constant reminder.

[10:44 am, 08/09/2021] +Jack: With the high unlink cases everyday going up. Taking public transport is high risk of getting infected. Unless everyone has their own of transport.. which is not possible.

[10:44 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: SERIOUSLY u really think vaccination is the end game?

[10:44 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: vaccination is a preventive measure

[10:44 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it DO NOT Killed the virus ....

[10:45 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: WHO had reiterate , as long as one country is not part of the current game of Vaccination ... do expect the virus to keep evolving which is true

[10:45 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: why are countries hoarding up sooo much vaccine and not giving other a chance to purchase (if they can) or help out poorer countries

[10:46 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: with each chance of mutation humans are 1-3 steps behind the virus evolution ..... (my take)

[10:47 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: unless society starts to collaborate and work together instead of each selfish / political objective get ready to see this last longer

[10:47 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: even WHO themselves is expecting covid to be a prolong war .. based on current ways of handling things

[10:48 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Sounds like people are in a panic.

[10:48 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: my take on locally why this is happening to singapore -> i say blame us the people / resident here

[10:49 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: You all want to live like this? A few hundred cases, 20-30 people in hospital and we all have to curb out lives?

[10:49 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: we are NOT COPORATIVE / STUBBORN / SMART ARSE but in reality is an arse

[10:49 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: advisory had been provision

[10:50 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: avenues of helps had been provision

[10:50 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: yet many still think is ok to walk their way

[10:51 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: MASKING ISSUE 20 MTH AGO TILL TODAY WE HAVE PEOPLE STILL FLAUNTING IT ..... either mentally retard or simply anti masking yes new term ANTI MASKING (half nose / not wearing, find excuses not to wear)

[10:51 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: vaccination -> healthy ones why u not jabbing ? u are not those old and waiting to die or terminally ill

[10:52 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I support wearing masks, and all reasonable precautions. The school are still open. Malls are still open.

[10:52 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: lessen of foot print in the society -> NOOOOOOOO sreams had been heard, i must go out, i will go crazy facing the 4 walls, i cannot work from home, i MUST EAT AT RESTAURANT

[10:53 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Is Trace Together working? Does the Gov know how the spread is happening and what the consequences are?

[10:53 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: either people are visually and mentally retard in singapore, this virus loves and LOVESSSSS crowd.....

[10:53 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the more the merrier HAVE WE NOT SEEN THIS MULTIPLE TIMES

[10:53 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe if they can share the data we would understand why vaccinated colleagues cannot meet each other at the office for a coffee.

[10:53 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the authorities is dam dam darm ind not to impose another lock down but be considerate

[10:53 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: do your stuff and get your butt home

[10:54 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: "7 Sep 12pm, there are 30 persons infected with COVID-19 who are seriously ill. 24 require oxygen supplementation and 6 are in ICU." Therefore 5 million people need to stay home.

[10:54 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: you can go out but please is not the norm to linger here and there gather in groups, finding ways to social butterfly like some KTV host or hostess

[10:55 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dun forget ONE can get infected, you bring home the unknown virus / death to your family at risk kids and aged folks

[10:55 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: those that tell me kids will not get and recover fast

[10:55 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: What % of vaccinated people are ill and infecting others?

[10:56 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: please dn be frog in the well go read over seas news and tell me kids are up and running in certain countries where spikes is taking place is kids!

[10:56 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: As a parent that's fair enough. Can you keep your young kids at home?

[10:57 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so in short: masking, social attitude and mindset, regulation to ensure society hygiene are a few areas to consider

[10:57 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: also singapore is darn soft and kind

[10:58 am, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: we should have more tough media education on social hygiene.....

[10:58 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: People who are concerned can do a daily test at home, simple swab test. They can stay home. They can have no visitors. Get home delivery of goods. We did the drill last year during lock down. It's easy to stay safe.

[10:58 am, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Those who are less concerned and are vaccinated should be allowed some more freedoms, as long as they don't put others at risk.

[11:13 am, 08/09/2021] +Suma pamu: All 8 cases from Covid-19 cluster at madrasah in Braddell Road from the same Primary 4 class

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/all-8-cases-from-covid-19-cluster-at-madrasah-in-braddell-road-from-the-same-primary-4

[11:18 am, 08/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Every day There are Few Children cases. 

So far Not servely sick 

That's a big relief.

But seeing Other countries news about Children Severity, feeling stress.

Schools Should give option to Parents 

Especially those who take public transportation To school.

And the children can prepare for exams at home.

Those who really need direct help from Teacher the parents can send those children to school.

So many Unlinked Cases, so may be during transport they had infected. We never Know!!

[11:19 am, 08/09/2021] +Jack: When there is serious cases or fatality will be too late.. preventing this happening is an ideas

[11:19 am, 08/09/2021] +Suma pamu: +1

[11:30 am, 08/09/2021] +Angelica: Personally I am not affected by any of the new measures.

However I do feel that these measures, especially for the one about the next 2 weeks doesn't make much sense. Especially since we've been doing a lot of these measures to already try and cooldown infection rates. But its only a temporary solution. Before, we were already holding back again in July and August for the vaccination rates to go up. And then now again. It seems that we are not able to control the virus because its just mutating too quickly for us to catch up. This timeline doesn't make much sense, (i.e. 2 weeks) if it was so important I think it should have been just stated as what it was before. I.E. not 80% vaccination rate but 80% vaccination rate + X% of elderly vaccinated. Is really 2 …

[11:33 am, 08/09/2021] +Stan: ‘We will not go back to lockdown or HL…..’BUT’ we will not hesitate if…..’ hahaha??!!

[11:34 am, 08/09/2021] +65 9438 4383: Our Imported cases is quite low like Hong-Kong but HK domestic cases are controlled better. Is there anything we can learn from HK. Considering their lower vaccination rate than us ?

[11:54 am, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

2 groups of our population still not yet vaccinated.

1. 7% of elderly and adults.

2. Children below 12 years old.

Now is the impetus to get the remaining 7% unvaccinated elderly and adults fully vaccinated first. 

Impose mandatory vaccination if necessary to get them vaccinated.

As for children below 12 years, got to wait for approval to do so.

[11:59 am, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKFKw4LTVMH0PRm3scYmvOsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowocv1CjCSptoCMPrTpgU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

Delta variant outbreak threatens Singapore's 'living with Covid' model.

[0:02 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/2000-new-daily-infections-in-a-months-time-if-current-rate-of-spread-continues

2,000 new daily infections in a month's time if current rate of spread continues.

[0:04 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 2 - Actively explore solutions that block the covid infection.

1. This is the World current weakest link - in preventing Delta variants infection.

2. Vaccination is very effective in preventing serious illness or death and long covid.

3. Vaccination initially is effective in preventing covid-19 - mRNA is 95% effective.

4. But Delta variants change the game plan. Vaccination is still very effective in preventing serious illness, death and long covid - more than 90% effective.

But Delta variants has reduce the effectiveness of 95% prevention of infection to 40% effective in Singapore context. That means there are 60% chance of breakthrough even for fully vaccinated people.

This is especially true if people remove their masks when interact freely - eg, bus interchange where bus captain remove their mask to eat, smoke and talk. Same for Fishery port and KTV.

5. Looking for solutions to block the infection at the source become vital - as vaccination can no longer effective in preventing infection at the source (ie. nose and mouth viral load transmission).

6. 7 Nasal spray that are currently on trial worldwide (eg. Israel, US, Singapore etc)- need to be closely look at.

7. If Nasal spray solutions can effectively block the covid viral load from being propagated - if people remove their masks to eat, talk, sneeze, cough, excrete mucous, saliva or running nose ---- then nasal spray will have cover the inadequacies of vaccination to prevent and block infection.

8. If nasal spray is effective, then covid spread will have been effectively curb - as it cannot jump host.

9. Having say so, vaccination must still be the baseline protection, because nasal spray may sometimes not apply correctly and covid can still infect eg :-

a. When nasal spray is applied to the nose, the nose will be sensititve and sneeze. Hence dosage may not be sufficient to protect the covid - and can still infect.

b. Mucous may flow out from the nose and dosage maybe loss.

c. Nasal spray like vaccination are not 100% effective and there could be breakthrough case.

d. People may not applied the nasal spray when the effect diminished and covid may infect.

Hence vaccination must still be the baseline protection.

10. Vaccine hesitant people who still fear the side effect of vaccination or misplace fear of vaccine trigger death - will be less resistance to get the nasal spray. This will be their 1st line of protection - and reduce the covid from spreading.

11. So nasal spray is something that the Government should explore in our fight with more and more new strains coming out and with infection number going up.

12. Nasal spray could also be our 3rd jab booster.

13. Alternative delivery options like tablet should also be explore.

[0:07 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

5 stalls in IMM food court close shops.

Some are my favourite stalls.

[0:07 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Lives versus Livelihood.

Both are important.

Both are badly affected.

[0:09 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心:

 https://sg.yahoo.com/news/ivermectin-why-us-anti-vaxxers-103602627.html            

Ivermectin, in fact, has a number of alarming potential side effects for humans, ranging from nausea, vomiting, dizziness, diarrhoea, low blood pressure, itching and hives to seizures, comas or even death.

Oxford University meanwhile announced in June that it would study ivermectin as a remedy for the coronavirus as part of its Principle trial on the basis that, although the agent is not an antiviral, some of the laboratory studies investigating its impact on Covid had found that it could block the replication of Sars-CoV-2 but only at much higher, and unsafe, concentrations than those used in currently authorised ivermectin treatments.         

The lack of evidence from large-scale, randomised controlled trials, however, made it impossible for those studies to say for sure that the drug is effective against the coronavirus, although that did not stop some countries like Peru, Bolivia and Colombia from administering it to patients.        

President Trump’s outspoken advocacy for the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine in 2020, which was likewise unproven against the virus – and thought to provoke worrying side effects including heart arrhythmia in some cases.

[0:10 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://nocamels.com/2021/07/sanotize-covid-nasal-spray-israeli-pharmacies/

Israel develop very promising nasal spray drug that can prevent transmission, block infection of lungs and can help as treatment drugs in recovery.

Elderly and vaxx hesitant people may be coax to use this.

As some countries have given interim approval should HSA also explore this?

Elderly may feel less hesitant to take it if it is prove to be effective.

[0:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Well said.

[0:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If not living with covid, then what?

[0:17 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: This is just number scare tactics. It has very little meaning. We can project anything with numbers,just pick the right point in the calendar.

[0:18 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I'm so done with everything revolving around unvaccinated seniors who do not want to get vaccinated.

[0:18 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Why do they have the right to be the cause if such restrictions?

[0:18 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I feel bad for the kids who have no choice, and us parents who are fearful of our kids contracting it

[0:19 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I thought we were moving away from daily case numbers and focusing on the real issue of hospiisation?

[0:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: 2% of vaccinated over 50s are dying? That seems quite high!

[0:20 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/how-many-double-jabbed-people-are-dying-from-covid-151218361.html

How many double-jabbed people are dying from COVID?

[0:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Ivermectin not approved as treatment for Covid-19, consumers strongly advised not to self-medicate: HSA

https://sg.news/?p=620191

[0:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Likewise

[0:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Ho Ching: ‘Slow down’ social interactions, especially where masks are down

https://sg.news/?p=620183

[0:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Ok, so basically the vaccine is a mild suppressant of covid, not a vaccine at all. Better than nothing, but not that effective

[0:25 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 1 - Vaccinate the remaining 20% population - to prevent serious illness and death.

1. Vaccination provide the baseline protection from serious illness and death. 

2. Vaccination is a necessity for the following reasons:-

a. It can prevent serious illness and death.

Medical report reveals that :-

- Vaccination boost immunity system through :-

i. Anti-bodies - which is a protein that fuse with covid virus that enter the body - to prevent the covid virus from attaching and infecting the red blood cell. But overtimes, the anti-bodies wanes and reduce in number - hence not as effective to prevent covid from infecting the red blood cell. Our local study reveals that the vaccine is 40% effective over time to produce anti-bodies that prevent covid Delta from infecting our cells - and 60% will breakthrough as the anti-bodies reduce in number.

ii. T-cell - produce by our white blood cell - that will attack the covid the moment they realise the covid has bypass the anti-bodies and infect the red blood cell. This T-cell trigger by the vaccines are more than 90% effective in killing the covid virus - and hence prevent fully vaccinated people from developing serious illness or death.

b. It can prevent long covid.

- as vaccines destroy the covid virus that enter into our body and prevent the covid from causing long covid - that damage our multi-organs like brain, lungs, heart, blood clot - causing losing smell and taste, pain or discomfort, difficulty breathing, lung damage, brain fog, mental problems such as depression and anxiety.

3. Vaccination according to our local study and US study reveals that mRNA vaccines are very safe and do not induce any long term side-effects --- and is suitable for public for used against covid-19 as baseline protection and to some extent - from infection.

4. We are on target to achieve 85% vaccination end of September.

This means, only 5% of adults has yet to be vaccinated.

That means 285,000 more adults need to be vaccinated - and Government must approach each and everyone to vaccinate --- because the current high daily infection number - reveals that covid-19 will indeed become endemic - and will infect many people like flu or common cold.

5. The remaining 10% infant (11 years and below) - should be vaccinated once the trial is over and safe for vaccination for this group.

6. 3rd jab booster for those immunocompromised should be roll out when more data are available.

[0:25 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 2 - Actively explore solutions that block the covid infection.

1. This is the World current weakest link - in preventing Delta variants infection.

2. Vaccination is very effective in preventing serious illness or death and long covid.

3. Vaccination initially is effective in preventing covid-19 - mRNA is 95% effective.

4. But Delta variants change the game plan. Vaccination is still very effective in preventing serious illness, death and long covid - more than 90% effective.

But Delta variants has reduce the effectiveness of 95% prevention of infection to 40% effective in Singapore context. That means there are 60% chance of breakthrough even for fully vaccinated people.

This is especially true if people remove their masks when interact freely - eg, bus interchange where bus captain remove their mask to eat, smoke and talk. Same for Fishery port and KTV.

5. Looking for solutions to block the infection at the source become vital - as vaccination can no longer effective in preventing infection at the source (ie. nose and mouth viral load transmission).

6. 7 Nasal spray that are currently on trial worldwide (eg. Israel, US, Singapore etc)- need to be closely look at.

7. If Nasal spray solutions can effectively block the covid viral load from being propagated - if people remove their masks to eat, talk, sneeze, cough, excrete mucous, saliva or running nose ---- then nasal spray will have cover the inadequacies of vaccination to prevent and block infection.

8. If nasal spray is effective, then covid spread will have been effectively curb - as it cannot jump host.

9. Having say so, vaccination must still be the baseline protection, because nasal spray may sometimes not apply correctly and covid can still infect eg :-

a. When nasal spray is applied to the nose, the nose will be sensititve and sneeze. Hence dosage may not be sufficient to protect the covid - and can still infect.

b. Mucous may flow out from the nose and dosage maybe loss.

c. Nasal spray like vaccination are not 100% effective and there could be breakthrough case.

d. People may not applied the nasal spray when the effect diminished and covid may infect.

Hence vaccination must still be the baseline protection.

10. Vaccine hesitant people who still fear the side effect of vaccination or misplace fear of vaccine trigger death - will be less resistance to get the nasal spray. This will be their 1st line of protection - and reduce the covid from spreading.

11. So nasal spray is something that the Government should explore in our fight with more and more new strains coming out and with infection number going up.

12. Nasal spray could also be our 3rd jab booster.

13. Alternative delivery options like tablet should also be explore.

[0:25 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 3 - Important to keep track of effective treatment drug such as monoclonal treatment drug.

1. Barring if Part 1 and Part 2 even if religiously implemented - and there are still some breakthrough cases -- which are likely to be in the minority few - effective treatment drugs such as the monoclonal treatment drugs ---- need to be exhaustively look into.

2. WHO has now recommed a large scale trial of 3 cocktail anti-inflammatory drugs to treat covid patients and reduce the risk of death in hospitalisation namely :-

- artesunate

- imatinib

- infliximan

We should watch out for the outcome of this WHO trials and see whether we can adopt it if prove effective and successful.

3. There are a number of monoclonal anti-bodies treatment drugs that are quite effective to treat covid patients - and reduce serious illness or death. eg are Regeneron etc.

Regeneron is a covid monoclonal anti-body treatment. 

It does not replace covid vaccination. It is advisable to get the covid vaccination even though monoclonal anti-body treatment is a promising treatment drug. 

It cut hospitalisation or death by 70%. It prevent 80% in transmission. 

So not 100% foolproof. mRNA vaccines cut hospitalisation or death by more than 90%.

[0:25 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 4 - Keep current restriction measures intact, eg. wearing face mask, maintain 50% WFH and other social distancing measures. Ramp up test, trace and ringfence.

1. Part 1, 2 and 3 - rely on scientific approach - medical science to tackle the covid infection and protection.

2. But it must be complemented by correct social behavior to prevent the covid transmission - as physical barrier, distancing are very effective to prevent the spread.

3. Face mask is a must as it is the most effective personal distancing tool, a physical barrier to prevent covid virus from spreading.

But this can be compromise if people remove their mask to eat, drink, talk, sing, sneeze or cough.

4. Hence congregation of people that will help the covid spread - should continue to be controlled.

- The current dine-in restriction should be maintain barring the high infection number. Wonder how does the bus captain is infected so widely if 2 dine-in per table is implemented ? (Very strange).

- WFH 50% should also be maintained - as in the past this allocation has keep the number low.

- Attendees for large number should continue to be restricted.

5. Test, trace and ringfence - should be pursue and not relax.

- Eg. sewage test

- self test

- Compulsory test

- Ringfence for large clusters.

[0:25 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: For every 100 over 50s unvaccinated, 6 will die, whereas those 100 if vaccinated 2 will die. Much better odds but not really a vaccine.

[0:27 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

S'pore cannot rely solely on vaccines to fight Covid-19 Delta variant, says NCID director.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/we-cannot-rely-solely-on-vaccines-to-fight-covid-19-delta-variant-says-director-of

[0:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: If the data is accurate, 93% of eligible seniors are already vaccinated, so I am not so sure it’s them who are causing the outbreak. 

CV19 spreads through contact, so I would like you to consider, is it really likely that it’s the aged seniors - who tend to be less mobile, and have smaller social circles - the ones who are potentially spreading the virus, or the younger, stronger, carefree/careless youths who are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers of the virus and have more social interactions with different groups of friends.

Let’s not confuse vulnerability to the  infection with how effective the person is spreading it around. 

CV19 requires contact and interaction between persons to spread.

[0:33 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed - this seems like a red herring. How many of these new cases are the elderly? How many of these new cases are causing hospitalisations?

[0:36 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Huh? Health Minister Ong Ye Kung has also said that vaccines are about 40 per cent effective at preventing infection, with the strength of protection likely to wane several months after people have received their jabs.

[0:36 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Vaccines are now only 40% effective?  and only last a few months? This is fresh information - what study is it based on?

[0:38 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/80-immunity-pfizer-vaccine-lost-143209918.html

80% immunity from Pfizer vaccine lost in 6 months: Study.

Inability to prevent infection but protection against serious illness or death.

[0:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Sam: Can it be possibly due to a lot more testing, or rather targeted testing that uncovered many asymptomatic cases that pose no threat to the health care system? Therefore, the recent spike is no as alarming as it should be.

[0:45 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Anti-bodies wane 20% to 40% - cannot prevent infection.

T-cell, the fighter cells still going strong >90% to remove covid-19 virus.

[0:45 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Basically lose control already.

[0:47 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Endemic concept need to be a 100% fully vaccinated well controlled endemic.

My AI predictive simulation model already prove it.

80% herd immunity not good enough.

[0:47 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So we should set our vaccination target :-

1. By National Day - 67% (2/3).

2. Next target - 80%.

3. Last target - 100% vaccination.

Note:-

1. FJP - fishery jurong port despite 80% full Vaccination can breakout into so many clusters - now 100 clusters with KTV help.

80% full Vaccination is not good enough.

Hence 100% full Vaccination is required.

2. This hypothesis is supported by smallpox pandemic R0 = 5 to 8 and chickenpox pandemic R0 = 8 to 9 - where only 100% vaccination can defeat the past pandemic.

3. AI predictive simulation model also simulated that 75% full Vaccination will still have many major outbreak like what we are going through now.

Only 100% vaccination can effectively curb the Delta variants.

[0:49 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But for very infectious strain like Delta variants - notice that at 75% mass vaccination - we will still occasional face large outbreak.

Because 25% unvaccinated will form a Trojan - that will help to trigger the outbreak.

Also as the mRNA us only 88% effective, 12% lobang also help in the outbreak.

Based on the model projection, 100% vaccination through mandatory vaccination - will have completely defeat the covid pandemic just like smallpox pandemic.

That's why I push for mandatory vaccination.

This is critical thinking.

[0:59 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: The elderly and health compromised ones are the people who fall seriously ill. It just means that they caught the virus and their immune system is unable to cope. 

Does not mean that they are the ones who are actively spreading the virus around. 

It is really about people’s behaviour/habits. Unfortunately a lot of people just don’t give a darm and behave like there is no pandemic and/or CV19 is not a serious illness.

[1:03 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: how are the elderly catching it? Presumably TT can show us?

[1:04 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Why can't a group of 30 year olds have coffee together at work - not sure how this plays into protecting the elderly.

[1:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: My first thoughts are that the 30yo would have a wider and more varied social circle, is more mibile, will have more social interactions with multiple different groups/social circles compared to an elderly person. 

Again, it boils down to transmission rate. 

Maybe another way of looking at it, is comparing a baby’s mobility vs an adult’s.

[1:11 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Yes precisely. So is the plan to basically stop people socialising now, even though illness rates are tiny? This will make Singapore a very unattractive place to live.

[1:12 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: And the elderly is probably staying in the same household as the 30yo?

[1:12 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Well then the 30 year old should use common sense and protect their elderly family by not socialising.

[1:12 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: +1

[1:13 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Including people with children not Vaccinated.

[1:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I don't understand why everyone is restricted because of a tiny number of irresponsible people. If you have young kids or elderly in your family don't go out.

[1:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: But young people who live alone are being penalised.

[1:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Some will simply not listen to basic reasoning

[1:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes and the bulk of the unvaccinated is not because they dun wan to be vaccinated but is because the vaccination is not available for them at the moment.

[1:14 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: So for people living with unvaccinated, young kids and elderly, then they should not go out.

[1:14 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I think the G had left it to the people initially, hoping that everyone would do the right thing ..  but obviously that didn’t work out and hence the G has to implement official restrictions.

[1:14 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Don't blame the G

[1:14 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: How did it not work out? What happened? We have a few hundred cases and 30-50 people in hospital

[1:15 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

We still have about 1 million unvaccinated people.

[1:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If that is not acceptable then what is the plan? Everyone stay home for the neext few yearts?

[1:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: 😱😱🤦‍♀️

[1:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Yes and only 50 in hospital.

[1:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: 😂🤣😅

[1:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: a year ago we have 5 million unvaccinated

[1:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Don't you think we are all over reacting a little?

[1:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Aggressive education

[1:16 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

500 over people in hospitals.

[1:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: As of 7 Sep 12pm, there are 30 persons infected with COVID-19 who are seriously ill. 24 require oxygen supplementation and 6 are in ICU.

[1:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: We keep the kids at home. But with social butterflies around they spread to the other parents which can spread to their own children too. The main thing is vaccinated parents can spread to their own children.

[1:17 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: 54 people seriously ill. How many die in car accidents each year?

[1:17 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Believe 1000 beds is set aside for covid-19 cases and we are half way there to max!?

[1:17 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

580 people in hospitals.

[1:18 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree... a lot of people will share the same views like @Ben and hence they think all is ok and this went haywire.

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: What? I don't think this is all ok. Don't put words in my mouth, thanks. I'm also not a type of person who makes this all go haywire.

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is not alot , is majority on this lala land island

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: all think they are god mode

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is ok

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Because I challenge the thinking and approach it doesn't make me irresponsible

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the word is still the same coffin not reach ur door step will not see the pain

[1:20 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: now 50 yeah is small number

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 500 infected for current phase yeah small number

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: excuse me - I'm not in God mode, what does that mean>?

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: not refer you

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: You have a right to your views, please don't get personal.

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: cannot read my statement most not Ben

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: why so sensitive

[1:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: The thing is trading health safety for freedom. It is a either this or that decision. Some want to be safe, so they trade in freedom, be more careful where you go, reduce social interactions, wear masks, gear up hygiene etc. Some want freedom, they will find the govt measures absurd and rely fully on vaccinated status and disregard other factors.

[1:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I'm as fed up as most with the virus. I am feeling sensitive yes, because there seems to be a very closed mind to how we are doing things here.

[1:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: when we do a cumulative of the infectived is the last and current generation sure no problem we did our part our time is little

[1:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: BUT WHEN KIDS FROM STUDENT LEVELS TO TODDLER gets hit

[1:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Shut down, lock down, add restrictions - sledgehammer approach.

[1:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is a waterfall effect on the whole society

[1:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Mental Health is important. Respect is important.

[1:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: maybe ppl on this lala land do not believe about prolong covid effects but overseas is other wise and proved it to be true

[1:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Everyone is restricted because of a few irresponsible people? Why is that ok?

[1:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Why were we told Vaccine is the answer, and then told yesterday it's only 40 % effective?

[1:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: aka do we (1) on personnel level want to see our kids get the virus if yes please unmask and sent them running all over the place

[1:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Am I missing something?

[1:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: (2) do we want to see our society going forth by the future generation to be a sickly bunch of citizens (aka toufu) abit abit sick,

[1:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: (3) do u believe in a society of sick people who can help built and defend the country?

[1:27 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: like i mentioned before socially at this stage, there is good that authorities are got clamping down as in china and vietnam ....

[1:28 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: @Ah Heng i have the same views as you. The future gen is the future pillar of the country. If our measures do not consider to protect them in every way possible until they can be vaccinated, we have to come hard on measures.

[1:28 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but people u me and those around needs to be socially aware of what other -> regardless vacc or no WE ALL SPREAD NOW!!! simple as that

[1:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and with that mindset MASK ON Once out of the house protect urself and kid (regardless urs or other)

[1:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Vaccinated does not mean the virus does not spread.

[1:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: do our part so the society can move on in not a limp but slower pace

[1:29 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Let us achieve 100% vaccination.

Government can take a stronger stance such as Mandatory Vaccination.

Unvaccinated people must also play their part to vaccinate.

Children below 12 years old must also fully vaccinated.

Then we can do a better fully vaccinated controlled endemic opening.

[1:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes, agree. If no 100% vaccination, don't move into endemic.

[1:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if TILL NOW PEOPLE still do not understand COVID is a social virus those who think not and because they are vaccine please I URGE U TO TO NCD and service the infected for 5 days ......seriously self fish ppl needs self fish measures

[1:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: stop using end the word endemic

[1:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: seriously

[1:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: SO WHAT IF SINGAPORE IF 101% VACCINATED while the rest of the world is still either catching up or still fighting new variant

[1:32 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: have not the repeated events globally shown us the virus can beat any county down each time a small battle is thought to be won

[1:32 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is the WAR that globally we as global citizens wants to win

[1:32 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and i echo WHO intents: this war have to be fought on common ground

[1:33 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: not individual country promising some illusion of immunity and normality

[1:33 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: as long as one country on this rock called EARTH is not able to join the fight (vaccine or at least 1st jab) this is a prolong winter war for man kind

[1:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: for this part i am happy to say Singapore have shown others what to do , have surplus share it to neighbours in need

[1:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: they get better means we get better

[1:36 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: brand x or a does not matter because in the end studies shows all vaccine seem to have lesser than advertise efficient rates , but is better than having none. Thus china made or usa made why so selective ..... at least china is rolling out it free to poorer countries like africa

[1:39 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and before anyone see Delta as the final ... please wake up also there will be most as the virus evolve rate is faster than even the studies can be done , reason being again it still have resources to host, grow and mutate ....

[1:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If there is such concern, why are the schools still open? Why are parents not giving a choice for home schooling? It's too dangerous for young people to have coffee at work, but ok for unvaccinated children to take the bus to school.

[1:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: socially we need to change to be more aware and stop being is about me me me and me (i need to go office work because is impossible to work from home, i need to eat at resturant instead of buying back, i need to exercise because i will die 1 day without exercise, i need to see my friends else we will die like plants

[1:41 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I make these points because it feels like we are being reactive and are either wrong about things like vaccine effectiveness, or not thinking through our options properly.

[1:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe I'm out the loop, I've not been following the thread so much these last few days.

[1:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Everyone is in a panic over the cases, but forgetting that people are not getting seriously ill.

[1:43 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I can project that if just 5 people a day recover from serious illness per day then no one will be seriously ill by the end of September.

[1:46 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: It's not tt the vaccine is ineffective  (otherwise,  why get vax?)  .

No,  it is becoz the virus knows no bounds.  It keeps mutating at a rate faster than we humans can catch up with. 

So,  as it changes , and over time, the efficacy rate of the vax in our bodies also starts to decrease. 

So,  if u look at it like tt, it therefore means tt ppl wl get infected sooner or later.

[1:48 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: Which brings me to the next point. 

Of those alredi vax & got infected,  how many of them rcv their vax early last year? 

Is tt also why the G is recommending us to get booster shots?

[1:50 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: As we r discussing this now,  ther r new strains  ... Lambda & Mu  ... tt they r talking abt elsewhere. 

Wat wl we do abt tt?

[1:55 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Not sure that is correct. The mutation has not made the vaccine ineffective. The virus still has the spike protein. It's possible the mutation has made it faster to spread etc, but the vaccines still does the same job.

[1:56 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, and do we have to wait for everyone to get their boosters now and stay inside until they have. Then again the same when there is another mutation? Basically we stay in our homes for years while the rest of the world gets on with it.

[1:56 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because with 100% vaccination, part 1, 2, 3, 4 - will be a fully vaccinated controlled endemic opening.

1. 100% vaccination - can protect against serious illness or death - don't overwhelm hospitals.

2. Nasal spray block infection - no or less host jumping.

3. Anti-viral, monoclonal antibodies treatment - can treat hospitalisation cases and recovery.

4. Mask, calibrated social distancing up or down - to facilitate endemic opening.

Then my 4 parts vision - will ensure the whole population are protected and yet can let our Economy continue to run in a Vaccinated controlled endemic mode.

[1:56 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: At the end of the day, 

The virus wl not stop. ... we all know tt.

How fast can we catch up w the virus is the qn  ... 

Wl ther ever be a day tt we humans can win over the virus?

Everyone shd be Socially responsible  ..

Meaning,  Mask On when not eating. ... In all our social interactions,  wherever we go,  in whatever we do...  Esp in public... 

God forbid the day tt we also hv to mask up at home!!!  😱

Opening up our borders  ... Do it slow,  slow.... 

But it's inevitable  ...

We hv to learn to live & cope w this virus war, the best way we can. 

As long as ther r countries (and ppl),  this war wl drag. 

I m just as fatigued as the rest of everyone. 

Every day, as I go out to work when I hv to,  I worry, even tho I'm fully vax now. 

But wat to do ?

This is the new norm. 

We hv to learn to cope  ... cope  , not just live with it. 

And it's damn hard when u r anxious all the time...  😅😅😅

[1:57 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Everyone shd be Socially responsible  ..

Meaning,  Mask On when not eating. ... In all our social interactions,  wherever we go,  in whatever we do...  Esp in public...

[1:57 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: agree

[1:57 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: that's what i had been saying

[1:57 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: socially huamns needs to change putting on mask do not kill

[1:57 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So 1st step - drive vaccination to 100% - let start with elderly and adults first for the remaining 7%.

Impose mandatory vaccination if necessary.

Then target the remaining 10% children.

[1:58 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it does not make u breathe lesser or make u die earlier via masking

[1:58 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is the basic public health method , actually it keep the society healthy

[1:58 pm, 08/09/2021] +Stan: I wonder if any minister got Covid or is that a privacy issue?

[2:01 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: Sori to make a joke here... 😅

But the only way to stop this is if the whole human race stops existing!  

So,  is tt wat this virus is doing?  

Is it its mission to eliminate the human race?  

😅

As it is right now, and as with any  enemy,  it has served its purpose to divide the human race. ... Look at us...  All w different opinions and interpretations of proper behaviour to fight against it!  

🤔

[2:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: Good qn. 👆🏻

[2:04 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: totally agree!

[2:04 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it is showing the cracks in human kind ....

[2:04 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and people just dun see that

[2:06 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/israel-nz-give-interim-approval-for-sale-of-coronavirus-nasal-spray-says-company

Israel, NZ give interim approval for sale of coronavirus nasal spray, says company

[2:07 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/thailand-covid-19-vaccine-nasal-spray-human-trial-2105791                                                                                                                                                              Thailand start nasal spray on human trial to combat covid including Delta variants.

[2:09 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-some-experts-think-nasal-sprays-are-the-best-approach-for-covid-19-vaccines                                                                                                       Why Some Experts Think Nasal Sprays Are the Best Approach for COVID-19 Vaccines.

[2:12 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: I am also tired with this covid and my household did our own diligence to get vac and get masked up and reduce going out unnecessarily and yet I have 1 infant at home. But if the govt measures keep relaxing and more and more people have the idea everything is ok. Hundreds infected are ok, then later it will become thousands infected are also ok, ten thousands infected are also ok, children infected are ok etc. Then those cannot be vaccinated at the moment due to age limitations become high risk and higher risk of long covid. This means those younger than 12 years old, in primary schools, in kindergartens, preschools are all being ignored because of adults desires to have more freedom and going to endemic as the new norm. And if the younger gen breaks out in …

[2:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Is this safe for young children? 🤔

[2:13 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Still on trial.

When approved, then we can use.

[2:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Wilson Loo: I usually don't comment/remark here but I felt this time I'll add my 2 cents

1. The idea of fully vaccinating is good and noble. 100% vaccination. But we all know those below 12 years old are uneligible. So how do we achieve 100% vaccination without a vaccine for them? Does it mean we should not reopen/resume some form of normalcy (ie no dining at F&Bs, no schools, no returning to workplace, no gatherings) until those below 12 can be vaccinated?

2. We all know and are fully aware that despite vaccination, breakthrough infections can and have occurred. Indeed overseas such as in Israel and now seen locally in Singapore. Hence what's the alternative? Are we supposed to not resume normalcy now and forever? If endemic is deemed taboo - what is the next alternative? If the argument is to get everyone in the world, every single person vaccinated - we should remember that only 1 or 2 diseases were ever eliminated on earth. And that took not a few years but decades. Should then we close economies/businesses and borders until decades later because we deem the virus "too risky to be lived with"?

All these are not suggesting that the virus is mild and to be taken lightly. Rather we need to figure out how best - like in a real war to win the battle with least damage. We all know that in any war casualties and fatalities are inevitable. The faster we as a society can agree on what are the acceptable trade-offs the better we as a country can be united and move forward on how we want to win this war.

[2:21 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Vaccines are very good in protection against developing serious illness or death.

Very good T-cell - the fighter cells that kill the covid.

But anti-bodies that prevent covid from infecting red cells and replicate itself, cause high viral load to spread to others - diminished.

2. Nasal spray block the covid virus from infecting the nose, mouth, airways and lungs and thus prevent covid spreading to others - but don't protect the whole body (only vaccines does).

Nasal spray hence is a good complement that cover the gap left out by vaccines.

[2:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: The virus objective is to spread as much as possible if it is too deadly the hosts will die before they get a chance to spread.

[2:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: On our side, we need to guard against the spreading of the virus.

[2:26 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: 1. I feel the measures should be these:

- Children under 12 no dine in

- Schools open as usual but with reduced social activities and cut down on CCA and cross-class interactions. If there is 1 case of covid in that school, the whole school goes into HBL for 14 days to isolate further cases and cut transmission. In the event a child is on HBL for 14 days, their parents' employers must allow the parents to WFH.

- Employers should set the default work mode as WFH for Parents with children less than 12 years old.

When the group 5 years to 12 years can be vaccinated, when this group achieves at least 80% vaccination, then the above measures can be readjusted to be valid for under 5 years old.

When the vaccination under 5 years old becomes available and 80% of them are vaccinated, then the above measures can be lifted up completely.

2. Resume normalcy has to be progressive with taking into consideration for those under 12 years old as well. Which I think we should only talk about endemic later and not now. Right now the measures are not to circuit breaker but should take into consideration of younger gen to how to protect them. Esp the community cases and unlinked cases are still high. How can the measures be relaxed if the community cases and unlinked cases are more than single digits?

[2:28 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes agree.

[2:28 pm, 08/09/2021] +Wilson Loo: Good! I think this is a starting point for a proper discussion. Workable and tangible policy ideas to shape the path forward.

[2:33 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: So in my household i have 3 generations staying together .. only 1 family member is ineligible for vaccination.. so even without G saying that we should reduce social gatherings etc, we take the initiative to do so to protect ourselves. 

Conversely, People who do not think CV19 is a serious problem to them, will anyway try to circumvent whatever restrictions/guidelines imposed by the G eg. masks not covering nose, pretending to be exercising/doing brisk walk, secret large group/social gatherings etc 

As the saying goes, 不见棺材不流泪, some people can only learn the hard way unfortunately.

[2:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Because you WILL come into contact with someone who is a close contact of an elderly/vulnerable/unvaccinated person. Why is that so difficult to understand? 🤷‍♂️

[2:35 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes i also reduced social gatherings in my household. My elderly parents are vac but i always remind them the infant is not eligible and ask them to reduce going out coz they can spread to the infant.

[2:35 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Exactly

[2:38 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I think you misunderstand fly point. I am not blaming the G. 

I am blaming the people who betrayed the G’s (and fellow citizens’) trust, and instead choose to not do the right thing.

[2:38 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: In the year that we have had over 60,000 cases, how many children have been infected and what were the consequences? I have a child and am anxious every time he is out. He could get hit by a car, fall out a tree, etc etc. An entire school doing 2 weeks HBL because I child is infected? Maybe just test them....

[2:39 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: We should be protective of our kids, but not at any cost. Otherwise they all just stay home until they are 18.

[2:39 pm, 08/09/2021] +Kwok Leong: If a child gets hit by a car can start a chain effect of many others gets hit by cars. Then yes. Should stay home.

[2:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - personal responsibility and respect for each other. Constant mandates on how to behave isn't healthy either!

[2:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: We have more than 1 million unvaccinated for various reasons. If only 1% need to be hospitalized, that would be 10,000 beds… for CV19 cases alone. 

How does that work out?

[2:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I think you know the point I am making. When there is a dengue case, do we all stay home? No one knows if the mosquito has died.

[2:41 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, but in the 18 months of covid we diodn

[2:41 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: we didn't see 1% get infected. If only 0.01% get infected how does that work out?

[2:41 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Anyone can play with numbers to present a case. Look at the evidence.

[2:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If 10% get infected that's 100,000 beds. We can do the maths, but it doesn't mean anything.

[2:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: Agree tt if child gets infected,  working parents shd also do WFH as part of the isolation procedures. 

I think the G forgot abt this when they say social interactions at work shd be limited. 

Sounds like 'dbl' std to me - ie.  apply to adults,  but not children.  🤔

[2:43 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If anyone in the house gets infected, then all should stay home. Kids and Adults.

[2:43 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: This is common sense, but it is not applied. My friend had to isolate for 7 days, but her husband was under no restrictrions.

[2:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: She was in a cab and the driver tested positive. She was tested but husband was not.

[2:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: She had to stay home, but husband didn't

[2:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: These are the odd things not being focused on. Instead we say people can't have coffee at work, but they can get on the train together.

[2:45 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: For 1, people like yourself, change your attitude! It’s not just about YOU. 

Maybe you are young, healthy, vaccinated, do not live with family members who are considered vulnerable, but many others do. 

If everyone can be more considerate towards others, and exercise caution, we can beat CV19. 

Obviously there are enough selfish individuals out there who place their own wants over the collective needs of everyone, which is causing another outbreak.

[2:45 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: https://mothership.sg/2021/09/employers-wfh-1-day-implement/

[2:45 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Change my attitude? I care about this country and the people who live here. You want me to change that?

[2:46 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: A year ago, the CV19 strain was less contagious. It had not mutated to the current delta strain.

[2:46 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I would like to caution against such policy. First it could be hard to enforce. Second, I wouldn’t be surprised if you get laid off once you gotten covid, cos the company doesn’t want to WFH just because of you.

[2:46 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: I m sure ther r many more such anomalies out ther.

Just tt they've not bn reported...  😉

Haiz  .... Like a multiple -tentacled octopus. ... Ther is no end to the chain...

[2:46 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If all that matters to you is the stopping the spread of covid, then stay home. Give up your job. Don't see your friends. Have food delivered. If that sounds extreme to you, then don't accuse me of not caring.

[2:47 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: 50 “only” in hospital despite the stringent restrictions that you are moaning about

[2:47 pm, 08/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors, 

Let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion 😊

Megan

[2:48 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Use the big head to think .. can almost smell your desperation through the screen 😂

[2:48 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: If all people care about is stopping the spread, then everyone should be WFH, kids HBL, close public transport and go back into lockdown. Obviosuly no one wants that, so we are looking for a compromise. My compromise is different from others, but it is not a knee jerk reaction.

[2:49 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I think you need to clean your monitor if it's smelly.... 😉

[2:49 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: In Singapore, tobacco kills approximately 2,500 smokers and 250 non-smokers each year

[2:50 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: How does that compare? Nearly 10 people a day die from smoking, including those who don't smoke.

[2:50 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Then maybe you have to relook at what you have been saying/writing because most of us here are getting a very different impression 🤷‍♂️😳

[2:51 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I can be more careful yes. I can tell people are reading a different message to what I think I am writing!

[2:52 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Also, I am not moaning. Having a different point of view is not a moan. Otherwise I could say people here are all moaning about whatever they are saying. I have more respect for them than that.

[2:52 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: It’s fine to challenge and question.. what matters however, is how you react and whether you accept, when you get answers/responses that disagrees with your initial analysis

[2:53 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: By telling them they are moaning?

[2:53 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Or that they smell?

[2:53 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: If the parents can’t discipline the kids then the teachers should. In this case the gov should enforce more draconian laws if no choice. I still think we are not balancing the policies and the expected outcomes properly. That’s why so many cases rise recently.

[2:55 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Think MOM has to have measures against such employers.

[2:59 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Hopefully

[2:59 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: There is the China approach - tight border controls, vaccinate, isolate, strict lockdowns the moment new cases found.

US Approach - do whatever you like. 

Australia/NZ approach - low vaccination rate, close borders.

SG is adopting a balanced approach - vaccinate, constantly adjusted restrictions (minimal according to new infection rate), gradual border/economic reopening. 

Each country’s strategy as you can see, is tailored/customized to their unique situation/needs. 

There is no 1 size fits all. There is no perfect solution. Whatever measures adopted will have its fair share of supporters and detractors.

[2:59 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I just worry for the common man who is usually very powerless and voiceless

[3:00 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: The commoners usually bear the brunt of whatever policy or rules that are rolled out

[3:00 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: No one said that it’s ok. 

We agree that it is NECESSARY. Know the difference 🙄

[3:01 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Woah guys chill bros

[3:01 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I tot my previous disagreement with Danny was bad pls keep kalm

[3:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: No need to argue

[3:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Just state our points

[3:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Feedback will be given to Ministers

[3:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Hopefully

[3:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I hope they hear and also listen

[3:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: How many times you want everyone to repeat??? DELTA VARIANT

40% effective against transmission, but fortunately much higher effective rate against serious/severe symptoms when infected.

[3:03 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: You are missing lots from what i am seeing. Very worrying. CV19 seems to be the least of your worries imho 🙄

[3:05 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: 👍

[3:09 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: the word is BALANCE

As the current situation stands, people like you already kpkb .. if everything also cannot, i think we will see rioting on the streets. 

Anyway, just remember, the G said “can”.. didn’t say MUST (socialize). Exercise your own judgement especially when it is telling you to be more cautious/kiasi/kiasu.

[3:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Hindsight is 20/20 🙄

[3:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +jimmy chew: Hindsight is an accurate science 🤣🤣🤣

[3:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: You project using what fantasy data bro? 😂

[3:12 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: I also wonder... 🤔🤔

[3:12 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: to be fair to all

[3:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: each have their view wrong right crazy let it be express

[3:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: The Mu mutation has been found to be much more effective in evading antibodies than delta and its predecessors.

[3:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Hence, the talk about the “new normal”

[3:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: because end of the day if one is so good u will be in the recommendation task force group not sitting here and keyboard commentators like me ya

[3:15 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so let's give our view and let the brains up there go do the filtering

[3:16 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Totally agree 👍

I am disappointed that every single time I am outside, i have to remind people around me to keep a safe distance when we are in a queue etc And every single time, their reaction is one of surprise .. like they didn’t realise that they are standing too close (in fact right next to/behind) .. either acting blur or worse, really never been consciously making an effort to maintain safe distance

[3:17 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Huh?

Got meh?

I can't remember already.

I only focus on issues and not the person.

I can't recall quarreling with anyone.

I just focus on solving issues.

[3:18 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: u darn lucky never kenna facebook or youtube for being socially kpo hahahaha but GOOD JOB ! That's what i do also i dun care ppl say i racist or kaypo not happy just stay the hell at home, dun make my singapore into a shit hole .. simple

[3:24 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: We all need to remind ourselves that the restrictions, however uncomfortable and disruptive, is really needs to buy us time while scientists develop more tools/weapons against CV19. 

We have now achieved vaccine v.1. We will get v.2, v.3 etc …. and we will need complementing therapeutic medications for when we are infected .. all these takes time. 

We need to survive long enough to see that happen. And in the absence of these tools/weapons, our only temporary solution is to avoid getting infected in the first place .. which means drum roll .. all the measures like mask up, social distancing, enhanced hygiene etc

[3:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: yes these are still the basic survival measures but alas human social sector refuse to agree

[3:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Wilson Loo: Yes - agree and I think almost everyone here can and will agree safe measurement measures (SMM) are needed.

I guess the part that we all cannot agree and appears divisive is the policy going forward eg how much to open? should open? how to protect children? etc... And that is where we all should be aware there are trade-offs in whatever suggestions we make. May I urge everyone to calm down and try to view the other viewpoints because everyone here has the same interests in mind - we all want to be safe from Covid, we want to be healthy, we want to keep our livelihoods/earnings (which are varied - some can wfh, some can't) and we all want to protect our families and loved ones. How we get there however may vary.

[3:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: masking is death

[3:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: social distance is taking away freedom

[3:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: cannot eat outside or less interaction is living in hell

[3:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hahahahhaa

[3:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: travel quarantine is unfair cos vaccinated are god / goddess

[3:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: have ppl read from SQ web site how residents from singapore is asking please open up more non quarantine lane for the vaccinated ?

[3:32 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: all these are the mindset of society here and in the west

[3:33 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: not trying to be racist or what but see whats happen to the west : anti vax / anti mask / anti social d /.........

[3:33 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: now they can hug their anti life as well to the crematorium ...(fact)

[3:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it takes 2 hands to clap authorities to set the direction, foot solider (society) to play our part to keep the ship steer well

[3:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: elseget ready for the ship to burnt itself

[3:37 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Israel has provided the world with good learning points. 

Even with high vaccination,  daily cases can hit 10k and 20k on 1 sep. 

Serious cases about 500 a day. 

It's population is <10M.

So we can't be laissez faire about cases numbers.

Our daily tests, are around 1% or slightly higher and if we are seeing 185 unlinked cases (7 sep). 

Does that suggest we have another 99 times of 185 around us, asymptomatic and therefore undetected?

It's scary even if it is just another 9 times undetected.

So I'm happy to hear gov taking a strong stance to institutionalized workplace surveillance testing to pick up more cases and enforce micro-lockdown to slow transmission.

Next, I hope gov can institutionalized wearing of TT tokens. 

Possibly to start with all frontline workers. 

Bus captains cases tell us that they are magnets in picking up virus from all over Singapore. 

Similarly, delivery man, retail workers, counter staff will similarly pick virus unknowingly and help to transmit. 

In many instances, they kept their phones and tokens in their lockers and waste the contact tracing opportunity. 

This will then help improve premptive efforts to arrest potential infections.

Vaccination has its limits. 

I'm not asking for more HA measures but target at more aggressive and contact tracing.

[3:51 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Both my close friend views and my views are identical - somewhere in the middle between tighter lockdown or remain endemic.

Slight tightening to bring number down, but remains open for the Economy and allow some social movements.

[4:10 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/jurong-fishery-port-biggest-community-cluster-closes-covid-19-2155351                                                                                                                                                       Jurong Fish Port cluster - with > 1000 cases --- also can close if manage correctly.

[4:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Elena Woo: I am also hands up for in between tighter lockdown and endemic. Now is not a good time to go into endemic mode, nor we can afford to go into circuit breaker mode as well.

[4:21 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: We may be overprotective now.. but only because we do not fully understand why some develop long Covid while others don’t (seem to), and since our children are literally our future, it is not unreasonable to be even more careful/cautious/kiasu/kiasi right?

[4:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: 👍😂 i saw what you did there 😂

[4:22 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Haha no worries. It’s good to have differing views and opinions. That’s why we have REACH.

[4:23 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: But when too many people are not exercising sufficient self restraint, then unfortunately, the G has to step in

[4:25 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but G steps in make sure is a clear direction not something that is sitting on the fence.

[4:25 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: to have a captain to say right and 15mins say left too often will pissed off the foot soldiers too

[4:27 pm, 08/09/2021] +CQ: as it is, i feel that the "should", "encourage" and "ought to" would at best only have an advisory effect on the more conscientious ones. the ones who are contributing to the problem would probably still be "eh, garmen ask you to stay at home. you, asking you. not me!" 😆

[4:28 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: We don’t because staying in - without taking other measures such as insecticides/anti-mozzie sprays etc - might actually increase your risk of getting dengue if you are living in an area with a dengue cluster.

Your arguments are very flawed. You might as well argue for the use of anti-dengue measures be used to combat CV19 😳

[4:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: why are you talking about “if 0.01%” when the data has already shown that it’s higher than that?

[4:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +CQ: i would go as far as to say that that's exactly what the govt is doing! where mozzies are the vectors, they take measures to get rid of the vectors. they enforce the checks on stagnant water, issue fines etc. likewise for C19, except in this case, the humans are the vectors. but since they can't get rid of the humans in the same way as mozzies, they can only ask people to stay home as much as possible!

[4:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Dan: With growing numbers to the staff contacting covid, would u still have enough staff to hold the fort in ur bus interchange?

[4:36 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: We didn’t because of (1) initially was not the delta variant (2) we had movement restrictions/measures such as circuit breaker etc

[4:39 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I urge you to look at the freely available data/information on MOH website about the infection numbers/rate. 

I am not playing with numbers… and you shouldn’t dismiss it simply because it does not fit into your “CV19 is not serious enough to warrant current restrictions” narrative.

[4:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I agree with this

[4:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: And sadly I also agree with this. This is like what’s happening now. Not clear enough.

[4:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: So let me ask you .. why didn’t you ask your friend why her husband didn’t exercise some common sense and play it safe? Just because G/MOH screw up (as you are implying) does not mean that your friend also act blur right? 

It’s precisely because of people like that that we have unlinked outbreaks no? 🤦‍♂️

[4:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: To some covid is not serious because we are not in the situation like usa or sorry msia. Coffin not run out of stock yet

[4:43 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: You have a very unorthodox way of showing card and concern 😂

[4:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: when still manageable we dun shore up the defense, wait till chaotic situation den think about defense line? is like dialect syaing when your sai at the a-hole den look for toilet?

[4:45 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: defense in my context is change the public mindset and culture ..... govt can only do so much and help so much ..... business espically are too spoon feed .....

[4:47 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Is that the current environment/restrictions? 

Stop making straw man arguments.

I am saying everyone do their part, err on the side of caution. Just because you can’t prove with 100% certainty does not mean it is untrue. 

When there is so much uncertainty and unknowns, I agree with more prudent measures. 

That’s all I am saying 🤷‍♂️

[4:50 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: You need a better come back than that 😂 don’t argue like your toddler 😂

And spend some time catching up on knowledge about CV19 and related topics 

Then maybe you won’t be so frustrated about why certain measures are required.

[4:51 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Straw man argument … next …

[4:53 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Oh… but you continue on the same path/line of argument regardless ..  hmmmm

[4:53 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Maybe you have to ask yourself why i did not tell anyone else to stop “moaning” about it 🤷‍♂️

[4:54 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

How bus interchange got cross infection:-

Eg.

1. Bus driver drive out of tampines go to boon lay. Remove mask, Eat lunch with colleagues there infect them.

2. Bus driver in boon lay drive to toa payoh remove mask eat dinner with colleagues there infect them.

3. Bus driver in toa payoh  drive out to clementi remove mask eat supper with colleagues there and infect them.

One day cross infection across many bus interchange.

[4:55 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: hang on … let me get my 7 year old to continue this “discussion” with you … 😂

[4:57 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: Who doesn't!?

[5:01 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Don’t get me wrong.. i am not trying to suppress anyone’s views. 

I comment/reply to a particular comment because i think it is healthy to have a discussion ie. challenging of view points and/or exchange of information/facts. 

Anyone is free to counter my comments as well…especially when it’s backed by facts/accurate data.

[5:02 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: 👍

[5:04 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Of course i don’t be antagonistic immediately .. 

i always try to move further away if possible .. until no choice, kanna cornered and the fellow still “clueless” then i gently remind them to keep some distance. 

Most will comply… fortunately haven’t encountered “sovereigns” yet 😂

[5:05 pm, 08/09/2021] +Dan: Its healthy to have discussion, but I see that you made some personal attacks on another person.

[5:06 pm, 08/09/2021] +Dan: That is not a discussion.

[5:07 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Maybe the G is using this platform to let us understand the challenges they are facing. Imagine this … on a scale 1000x larger 😅

[5:08 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: den hor my word to them is sorry lor ur situation i cannot understand nor help cos u have the best brains and resources so kindly please work it out hahahahaha, if u cannot work out den how to expect us foot soldiers to work it out hiak hiak

[5:09 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: already from reach feed our ideas and suggestion hahahaha

[5:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +Wilson Loo: haha... No one here is completely right or wrong. Everyone's viewpoint bears merits. But we should all also walk one mile in the other persons' shoes and then see why he/she feels that way too. We should try to converge our ideas and find common-ground middle-path solutions

[5:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: That’s true. I also think the G should be more forceful and decisive on this front.

[5:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Exactly.

My point is, (Ben) might be less frustrated if he just revisits some of his arguments/logic.

[5:17 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I am stating the obvious that maybe others are too polite to point out

[5:19 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: 💬 Which of the new additional measures impact you the most? How can we continue to play our part to break the chain of transmission? 

1) Definitely most affected are social gatherings and interaction with colleagues. It’s really weird if the same team or close colleagues don’t lunch or interact together. Might as well WFH suah, don’t make sense to work in office but no interaction. I can tell you ppl take off their masks in office also.

2) The masks on regiment doesn’t seem to get into ppls brain. Maybe it’s burnout maybe it’s complacency but many are NO LONGER taking this seriously. More enforcement is needed here. From workplaces to heartlands to shopping malls etc. catch those who don’t put on their mask properly and take down their particulars. This s…

[5:25 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Perpetuating misinformation/misconceptions should not be a part of any discussion. 

If by calling out someone for making frivolous /unsubstantiated claims and/or arguments is what you term “personal attack”, then i am proud to be guilty as charged.

[5:32 pm, 08/09/2021] +REACH: ➡️ Employers hiring transferred maids should share costs of stay-home notice and related Covid-19 tests: MOM

SINGAPORE - Employers who hire transfer maids should share the costs of the stay-home notice (SHN) and related Covid-19 tests, said the Manpower Ministry on Wednesday (Sept 8).

More: https://str.sg/35RL

➡️ 15 months' probation for man who visited friend while she was under SHN in hotel room

SINGAPORE - A 20-year-old man who visited a friend in a hotel room where she was under a stay-home notice (SHN) was on Wednesday (Sept 8) sentenced to probation for one year and three months.

More: https://str.sg/35Rz

[5:39 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Totally agree as far as opinions are concerned. For example how someone feels about a particular policy and/or share their experience about how it affects them or makes them feel. 

But ..  there should be no room for discussion when it comes to facts/data. Eg. When someone claims that a horse deworming medication is more effective/safer than an mRNA based vaccine for CV19, or that mRNA vaccines are untested even though more than 4 billion shots have been administered globally. Mis-information and inaccuracies should be corrected.

[5:42 pm, 08/09/2021] +Wilson Loo: Yep. Agreed. I think we can all agree on many facts that are also available publicly (just find reliable sources). I don't think misinformation is much of a problem here (I don't monitor this chat group that much I admit). But I think we have a lot of disagreements on approach and policy.

Which is fine in itself except if we don't try to walk a mile (or two) in the other persons' shoes we don't understand why he/she feels that way. But there ought to be enough common-ground to make sensible compromises that everyone can get onboard. It needn't be mutually exclusive one way or the other.

[5:45 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I would say everyone should just take what is said here with a pinch of salt. The only msgs here we can take as the whole truth is directly from REACH themselves when they share the news articles.

REACH will also no correct is here if we say things wrongly, they will only intervene when vulgarities or verbal attacks occur.

[5:50 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Oh… but there are people who share outright conspiracy theorist articles and preach it as the gospel truth here 😅 

And … REACH moderators does not intervene ☝️ at least, not openly 😅

[5:51 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: yeah they don't intervene bro

[5:51 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: they will only share news articles here

[5:51 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: they will not respond whatsoever to "fake news" here

[5:52 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: but if enough of "fake news" appear in their chat groups (G2 is just one out of many), the feedback will be heard and respective ministries will issue POFMA

[6:05 pm, 08/09/2021] +Rama: They do it via PM

[6:06 pm, 08/09/2021] +REACH: ➡️ First vaccinated travel lane flight from Germany lands in Singapore

SINGAPORE - The first flight ferrying passengers from Germany travelling under a quarantine-free scheme has landed at Changi Airport.

More: https://str.sg/35R9

[6:06 pm, 08/09/2021] +Smiley face: US CDC warns against travel to Sri Lanka, Jamaica and Brunei

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-cdc-warns-against-travel-to-sri-lanka-jamaica-and-brunei

[6:10 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: 😅

[6:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +jimmy chew: Facts is neutral how one interprets it may be contentious. Glass half full versus half empty

[6:13 pm, 08/09/2021] +jimmy chew: 👍👍👍

[6:29 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Another record 347 local cases.

[6:29 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: How much was Ytd?

[6:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Also 300+ right?

[6:30 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

328.

[6:30 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Haiz

[6:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +RH: 😰

[6:31 pm, 08/09/2021] +Timothy Low: What is the number of unlinked cases today?

[6:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Haven't announced yet

[6:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: The ministry did not provide the number of linked and unlinked cases.

[6:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: 347 new locally transmitted Covid-19 cases in Singapore

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/347-new-locally-transmitted-covid-19-cases-in-singapore

[6:34 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Sauce ☝🏻

[6:36 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If covid infection is not curb like common cold or flu where R0 > 10, then it could hit 3,842 per day.

Then our hospitals will be overwhelmed already.

[6:36 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is common cold and flu endemic.

[6:37 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Joseph, you are making wild assumptions. 'People like that' ? Like what? My friend's husband stayed home the whole week because he took sensible precautions. You might take issue with me today, I get that. I feel that you are not listening and just being angry. I am not irresponsible, I am careful, I encourage vaccinations, I avoid crowds. Today I am voicing an opinion you don't seem to like and as a result you have become quite personal and disparaging about my views.

[6:38 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I take a balanced view. Life is not just about avoiding covid. We have many issues to deal with, but I feel people are only focusing on one thing.

[6:39 pm, 08/09/2021] +REACH: ➡️ 347 new locally transmitted Covid-19 cases in Singapore

More: https://str.sg/35DU

[6:40 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe be less personal and make less unjustified accusations, if you are just airing your views?

[6:43 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: aiyo mai argue, one bowl of rice got many patterns to eat

[6:43 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: For the record, I have always been v supportive of measures to combat Covid and reduce the spread. I was reacting today to this: "Social gatherings at workplaces will not be allowed from today" and questioning the logic that vaccinated colleagues cannot have a coffee together. Maybe I was extreme in my points, because I am dealing with an extreme reaction that I don't believe gives me much confidence in the future.

[6:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some like nasi lemak , some like it hard .... live and let live, after all no prize like toto if govt take ur suggestion also

[6:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe if there is data to show us that having a coffee with a colleague is a primary source of the spread we might understand why this course of action.

[6:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dun like to see what people say closed eyes hehehehe

[6:44 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: happy dinner alll !!!!

[6:45 pm, 08/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:46 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: My assumptions are based on the information you shared. 

The way you presented it - the story and your preceding comments that suggests you disagree with the restrictions - gave me the impression that your friend’s husband did not self isolate because the G/MOE didn’t tell him to. 

I don’t know you just as you know almost nothing about me. So my comments are directed at what is being said. 

My suggestion is, if you want to participate in discussions related to hot button issues, then be prepared that it can get heated and may even come across as personal. 

I attach the comments not the person (whom i don’t know).

[6:47 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: anyway will it not be good to let a block know there is someone in SHN? just a while thought at least residents can take precaution rather then they heck care and still do their sneaky anti social actions?

[6:47 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ah Heng: need not say which house hold just put a notice there to alert everyone this blk have residents under quaratine ....

[6:47 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Well I didn't comment on whether the husband stayed home or not, so your assumption and comment back to me clearly showed a very negative approach.

[6:48 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Anyway water under the bridge, tomorrow is a new day! No hard feelings.

[6:48 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: I don't hold grudges, especially online! 😁

[6:49 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Yes. i have noticed that your earlier/previous comments are pro sensible measures, but that does not take away the fact that some of your comments today don’t make sense, esp. when you compare dengue measures against CV19 ones… 

There will be days when i might say something that is inconsistent and/or not well thought out … on those days, i expect someone to challenge and correct me.

[6:49 pm, 08/09/2021] +Ben: Let's leave it now, enough said I think

[6:51 pm, 08/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gdnite Megan!

[6:52 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Hmmm… how about also data about eating chicken rice together? or wanton noodles? or fast food? 

Is it really necessary? Isn’t it about minimizing interactions and socializing unnecessarily?

[6:53 pm, 08/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Neither do I

[6:56 pm, 08/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Forgive and forget.

Literally.

Life is tough with pandemic.

地狱在人间。

人间🈶天堂。

问君何出去。

只在一念间。

[6:58 pm, 08/09/2021] +Peter T Ng: Ben and Joseph, thanks both for making your points.

[6:59 pm, 08/09/2021] +Smiley face: 8 September, 2021 

To: Distinguished MTF, MIN-MOM, And Honorable Members 

"The MNCs, Our SMEs And The Meaning Of Survival Of The Fittest." (生在富中要自足) 

How would we run a company, a corporation or a country facing sets of unprecedented situations and a spectrum of challenges and possible failures? 

Consequential:

1) Forever21 Global closes 350 bankruptcies (7 branches in Malaysia)

2) MPH, the largest bookstore in Malaysia has closed 8 branches

3) Starbucks U.S. permanently closed 400 stores (16 stores in Malaysia)

4) Zara closed 1,200 stores at a loss of 409 million (9 stores in Malaysia)

5) Speedy has been in business for 30 years,  all branches are closed 

6) AirAsia retrenched over 1,000 people

7) MAS Application for winding up

8) Ramada Plaza Hotel closed since June 2021

9) Kuala Lumpur, Johor and Penang, a total of 126 hotels closed

10) Langkawi and Malacca City, a total of 115 hotels closed

11) KL Parkroyal Hotel will be closed for renovation for 15 months

12) KL Plenitude closed 3 hotels

13) KL Syeun Hotel Closed

14) Kinta RiverFront Hotel closed

15) Tower Regency Hotel closed

16) Hilton Hotel cuts 2,100 employees

17) FourPoints Hotel closure

18) Expedia layoffs 3,000 jobs

19) Tioman Resort Closed

20) Coldstorage Petaling supermarket closed

21) All tour agencies are either temporarily or permanently closed causing almost 400,000 people in the country out of job

22) All theaters are either temporarily or permanently closed causing more than 40,000 people in the country to zero income 

23) 70% of Hair & Beauty Saloons closed affecting the livelihoods of  more than 100,000 people

24) Colleges, training centers and professional schools are suspended, and more than 10,000 school buses parked 

25) Casinos, entertainment, KTV, bars, SPA, CLUB, GYM, temporarily or permanently closed, more than one million people in the country unemployed

26) National chain milk tea shops also closing one after another laying off 25,000 employees

27) Over 850,000 Malaysia college students graduating with almost nil employment opportunities

Reflections:

"Let the tests of Covid unite us and  stand taller as one homo sapien against all odds, impediments and differences!" 

-- Ian T 

Luxury boutique Pedder On Scotts to close on Sept 26

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/pedder-on-scotts-to-close-on-sep-26

[7:00 pm, 08/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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