REACH 274 - How do you feel about current COVID-19 situation in Singapore? Seniors, will you be taking the COVID-19 booster shot? Why or why not? (SK)
17 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:34 am, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! ๐
⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10.30am to 7pm today. ⏰
House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:
1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views.
2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.
3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.
4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.
5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential.
Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms
We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.
Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.
The topic will be posted shortly.
Thank you
Megan ๐
[10:35 am, 17/09/2021] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
Singapore reported 910 new Covid-19 cases on Thursday (Sept 16), the highest daily number since May 1, 2020. There were 803 new cases in the community and four imported ones, as well as 103 cases among dormitory residents, said the Ministry of Health (MOH). Of the new local cases, 244 are seniors above 60 years old.
๐ฌ How do you feel about current COVID-19 situation in Singapore? Seniors, will you be taking the COVID-19 booster shot? Why or why not?
All seniors aged 60 and above and those living with them have been urged to minimise social interactions in the next two weeks. In a statement on Wednesday (Sept 15), the Agency for Integrated Care (AIC) said: "Seniors are at a higher risk of developing serious health complications if they are infected with Covid-19." They are advised to stay at home as much as possible and avoid crowded places.
The AIC also urged seniors who have not been vaccinated to do so soonest possible as the risk of an unvaccinated person getting severely ill is six times higher. Those who have been vaccinated are advised to get their booster shots, as part of the national Covid-19 vaccine booster programme which kicked off on Wednesday (Sept 15).
Over the next few days, 140,000 seniors will receive invitations from the Ministry of Health (MOH) to make an appointment to receive a booster dose of either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine. Seniors should receive a booster dose of an mRNA vaccine about six to nine months after having completed their primary course of vaccination regimen.
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/910-new-covid-19-cases-in-spore-highest-since-last-may-one-unvaccinated-woman-dies
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/seniors-urged-to-avoid-social-interactions-for-two-weeks-amid-surge-in-covid-19
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-kicks-off-covid-19-vaccine-booster-programme-for-seniors
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/more-covid-19-patients-can-recover-at-home-shorter-quarantine-what-you-need-to-know-about
----
[10:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Liew@SG: ๐คฆ♂️๐
[10:44 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I honest feel the people have been forsaken. Based on articles and press release that everyone vaccinated, is ok to get infected with Covid. This is really heartless. Got no further comments on this. I wish the MMTF the best of luck and other Singaporeans and residents to take care of themselves.
[11:01 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: somehow along the way someting got screw and people on the street noe have the mindset C19 is a FLU.
[11:02 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: If that is what authorities are going to support just because of endemic reason, like Alvin says good luck to not only Singapore but the world. i am really speechless at how residents of Singapore thinks and acts.
[11:03 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Infection is going to be part of our lives yes but not all are doing their best part to keep it down. Like a good % i am very very very concern about our next generation population age 0 - 12
[11:04 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: next sorry to question but 3rd booster is it really required
[11:04 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: more and more reports are coming up with doubts on this needs
[11:04 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: while vaccine last 2 weeks says it boost anti bodies suddenly it can drop in the following week saying no it wane off fast
[11:05 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: please citizens are not rats
[11:05 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: these are lives we dealing here not just a number figure tagged to someone as 1 2 3 4 .....
[11:07 am, 17/09/2021] +CQ: 3rd booster, 4th booster, 5th booster... Does it even end?
[11:08 am, 17/09/2021] +CQ: +1
[11:09 am, 17/09/2021] +65 9339 1411: +1
I feel the government is really relentlessly pushing us into this, and unfeeling towards the sentiments on the ground.
This is a very poor balance of lives vs. livelihoods. More are dying, SMCs are still struggling, yet the rich have been getting richer. Sometimes I feel that it's just a convenient rhetoric to whitewash their promulgations
[11:10 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some compare vaccine to flu vaccine it never ends to but the logical rational was flu vaccine took years to prove itself with little side effects, c19 vaccine were the first to be roll out to population in less than 6 mths thus is an emergency PLASTER. if a small % see this as god gift cure is not
[11:11 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Vaccine like WHO says is a preventive measure only is not a cure
[11:12 am, 17/09/2021] +Boon: Dear MOM, the moment the govt decided to allow more open borders and social movements, the increase in infection should already be expected and be prepared. It’s not about how we feel about the number of cases since the govt has already changed from “zero cases” to live with Covid. The focus should be on ensuring there’s sufficient medical capacity to treat patients. Therefore, does the common people in Sg sufficiently know how we are getting prepared to live and treat Covid? I don’t think we know enough. Thanks
[11:18 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: While other external reports include after effects of covid, it seems locally this is much not reported
[11:19 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: with such information controlled is no doubt segments of society will treat this as a common flu and go ahead in their own conception coupled with the motion of endemic, you think they will lessen their foot prints and social activities
[11:19 am, 17/09/2021] +Boon: If seniors do not get their mRNA booster shot - fot whatever good reasons including health - will they be socially excluded and ostracized?
[11:19 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: frankly walk in the mall and u see how many parents are still risking their kids health by letting go maskless....
[11:20 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: because reports shows that kids get MILD infection and recover Fast ?
[11:20 am, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: I am no senior, but will wait for non mRNAs one for my booster shot
[11:20 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but what about the pro long effects?
[11:21 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: speaking of mrna and non mrna have there been official word locally is advisable to mixed as booster ?
[11:21 am, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: think still in the study
[11:21 am, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: to study how to mix, to get the maximum effect
[11:22 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 2 approach -> one is during jab 1 and jab 2 mix, (dun think we doing it here)
[11:23 am, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: I mean after 2 jabs of mRNAs
[11:23 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no2 is what is of i think good % concern , booster jab can mix?
[11:23 am, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: I think so
[11:23 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: also why are we jumoing so fast into booster jab like usa and isreal
[11:24 am, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: because we are a few months behind USA and Isreal
[11:24 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: in the recent 2 weeks there are reports citing doubts on the need for booster jab
[11:24 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: of cos there are 2 camps to this booster think with each refuting each other via news artciles
[11:31 am, 17/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Feel that because gov is so adamant on transiting to endemic and relaxing the measures so fast, that is why the numbers surge so fast and unlinked cases went out of control until dun dare to report the numbers already.
[11:31 am, 17/09/2021] +Elena Woo: The numbers are likely to continue spiral out of control.
[11:34 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: It is tough to find a balance between economic and lives. With vaccine, there is a chance to open up. If no vaccine, I believe we will be in Circuit breaker stage now. As I mentioned to some people. We are an open economy. If we lock up tight like NZ, and when it is safe to open up ? Which, we do not know with continuous mutation of the virus unless there is a effective treatment which is not likely this or next year. If we close until next year and then open up , we will not have a job to return to. Other countries are setting vaccination target with the experience of the Isreal on how they open up. They know their companies will not survive with too long of lockup
[11:34 am, 17/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Woes to the younger generation!
[11:40 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: there is no qualms about opening up, am sure majority of people will say yeah have to open up sooner or later cannot avoid .. but is the measures put in place, too strict business still complain, too relax we see sky high numbers,
[11:40 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: That's the balance we are still figuring out.
[11:40 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: govt can only do that much (frankly they better stop spoon feeding) and society really needs to play our part (which is not happening)
[11:40 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: People here in Europe are living with Covid. Masks on. Hand sanitizer. Sensible measures. Other than that life is normal.
[11:40 am, 17/09/2021] +Suma pamu+1
[11:41 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Football matches, restaurants, shopping, schools etc all normal
[11:41 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: society wants its way .. the way as life is before covid: dining out / maskless / mass gathering/ etc
[11:41 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 98.2% of infected have no symptoms
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: In Singapore
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: worst is new theory that i leant is some already see c19 as a flu
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Suma pamu+1
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: For the Children, I felt CCA is necessary for their mental health. Notice a lot of recent case of suicides
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 0 1% need oxygen and no one died.
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: In Singapore
[11:42 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is not a situation that just happen it shows our society is not gear for crisis
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: parents are not ready
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus off springs are not ready to face such
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: When covid hit , none of us are prepared
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: We are still learning the best way forward
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We need to take reasonable precautions but not be obsessed with daily case numbers
[11:43 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is not easy to adjust but neither it is impossible to adjust
[11:44 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: i am we are not in total lock down and freedom of movement still applies
[11:44 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: We have watch the death rate and ICU . That is indication of seriousness of the virus variant
[11:44 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but i do understand the stress comes from if i get it anot hahahaha
[11:45 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Take personal responsibility, get vaccinated, keep distance, wear masks, wash hands
[11:45 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: That is the good basic
[11:45 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: this wear mask thing is still a problem
[11:45 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: cos each have their own belief
[11:46 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Yes. The last 28 days 0% died. 0.1% need oxygen
[11:46 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then how come daily cases hitting 1k soon?
[11:46 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Don't be obsessed with number of cases. 98.2% have no symptoms
[11:46 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We are rigorously testing so case numbers are high
[11:46 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: So pls get infected with Covid bro and tell me again
[11:46 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: I think we need a booster shot. Considering there are more potent virus variant coming ... like Mu
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: jin bad u
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hahahaha
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I don't want to get infected, but anyone else to get infected
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Suma pamu+1,
Not only CCAs
Children needs their play time with Their Friends.. Now Even during Recess they hardly able to communicate..
School became a place where STUDY and nothing else matters.
A worest Situation facing by children now!! Except EXAMS nothing matters.
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Talk is cheap
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Until you get infected
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then you see the side effects
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: If you are very worried get vaccinated and stay home.
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I am but my infant isn’t
[11:47 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: this had been shared by myself since day 1 but locally NO ONE SEEMS TO care
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I will wear a mask, keep my distance, wash my hands and take the 3rd jab.
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Exactly lor
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: Notice that the Covid causes us not to inter-mingle and communicate with other socially . That is no good long term
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: all just feel it is a common flu i can get recover and done
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: You wear mask at home?
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Suma pamuI am not good at numbers
Some one commented (in Fb) this Percentage is based on Whole population.. is it true?
Or Based on infected numbers!!
Just asking
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some keep asking show prove
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Lol no, why?
[11:48 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: look prove is over the big news outlets go read them
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then how to ensure I don’t pass the virus to my infant?
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: WFH is driving some crazy. No social life for youngster anymore.
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: special time calls for special arrangement, yes one cannot minggle as before
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: You say infected pax no symptoms
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Suma pamu+1
And seems this weill continue for few more year
Sad but no choice!!
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Because I take precautions not to catch it in the first place
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but is not like 0 person to person gathering ya
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: do things within the red tapes
[11:49 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: How you know you not already infected?
[11:50 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: there are other means like vc or traditional phone call
[11:50 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I don't and nor do you.
[11:50 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is better than nothing
[11:50 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 98.2% no symptoms, that means many on this list might be infected
[11:50 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the gold is suffer now enjoy the sweetness later or we will be like dogs chasing or own tails ways .... round and round in circle
[11:51 am, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: Mass Rapid Transit
[11:51 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: which will be more mental draining
[11:51 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yeah so how I avoid spreading to my infant who is unvax?
[11:51 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: ?
[11:51 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: crowded?
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Get vaccinated and encourage everyone to get vaccinated. It has proven to be 5x more effective than not being vaccinated.
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: If you care about your and your families health
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: vaccine is the most encourage way to go now
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Already vax say how many times
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no one is saying no
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: ๐
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: same like open up of economy
[11:52 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Is everyone on this list vaccinated?
[11:53 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: And all their families?
[11:53 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but it had been shown also vax does not means a country is immune from c19 and family ya
[11:53 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: then suggestion for booster every one clap and blow whistle but WHO and a coupe of reports are questioning if the need is real
[11:54 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: If so, great. It is 5x more effective if you get infected, and many time more effective at stopping you get infected and stopping you spreading it.
[11:54 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We cannot expect zero cases and zero illness
[11:54 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Like any disease
[11:54 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: At this stage
[11:55 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: think u dun get the drift
[11:55 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We have 12 people in icu
[11:55 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: am not saying 0 at all and neither in my conversation
[11:55 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: In a population of 5m during a pandemic
[11:55 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: was saying despite high vacc rate there must be safety measure still enforce to ensure this infection rate stay as low as possible
[11:56 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it tough but doable
[11:56 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 0.00003%
[11:56 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then how come those infected are also vax ppl?
[11:56 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: What do you mean how come?
[11:57 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 4m people are vaccinated, how many are infected?
[11:57 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: In ICU
[11:57 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Or seriously ill?
[11:58 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: This is the % Of our population in ICU
[11:58 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: So this % of ppl suay lor
[11:58 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Their lives doesn’t matter
[11:58 am, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is more impt uto see how many are infected on daily basis
[11:59 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Everyone lives matter, are looking for zero?
[11:59 am, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Then stop smoking too, ban cars etc People die of those as well
[11:59 am, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Wah rhetoric sia
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Comparing durian and apples
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Nice
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I know a virus is different, but we cannot prevent all deaths and illness without total Lock down
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I beg to differ
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: The point is we have to function as a country
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: These deaths are preventable
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Which deaths?
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Covid deaths
[0:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 0% died in the last 28 days
[0:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Ytd someone died
[0:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Which are preventable? There were none, apparently
[0:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: [Sent by Gov.sg – 17 Sep]
As of 16 Sep 2021, 12pm, 837 COVID-19 cases are warded in hospital. There are 77 cases of serious illness requiring oxygen supplementation and 12 in the ICU.
Over the last 28 days, of infected individuals, 98.2% have mild or no symptoms, 1.6% requires oxygen supplementation, 0.1% requires ICU care, and 0.0% died.
As of 15 Sep, 82% of our population has completed their full regimen/received 2 doses of vaccines, and 84% has received at least one dose.
As of 16 Sep, there are 910 new cases in Singapore.
go.gov.sg/moh160921
[0:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: No point looking at the past right now. We are in a totally different place
[0:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-sep-16-death-woman-unvaccinated-2181581
[0:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: 83% vaccinated
[0:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Apparently ppl conveniently read only things they wanna read
[0:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: PM Lee receives his Covid-19 booster jab
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/pm-lee-receives-his-covid-19-booster-jab
[0:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I read the gov update.
[0:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Sorry to read this, very sad
[0:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: ๐๐ป
[0:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: We need more seniors to take their boosters
[0:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I just don't know how to prevent all deaths of covid without keeping every one home.
[0:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Yes
[0:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: ๐๐๐
[0:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: wear mask hahahahah cos we do not know if ourselves is an infected....
[0:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dun find excuses to take off mask when outside
[0:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Mandate everyone to swab weekly
[0:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: That's right.
[0:08 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The government I believe is watching how far Delta variants can go - before it reaches the threshold that starts to overwhelm the hospitals before - the government will slam on the brake.
The threshold I guess is:-
1. Population tolerance appetite.
(Business appetite and Population safety appetite).
2. Hospitals resources hard number.
[0:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Also works, but remember case numbers will go up. Need to manage those expectations.
[0:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: I still waiting for my employer to pass me the 8 sets of ART
[0:10 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
3. Number of serious illness such as oxygen support, ICU and death.
[0:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Nursing homes to receive antigen rapid test kits by next week
All nursing homes should receive antigen rapid test (ART) kits by next week, in a move to allow more frequent Covid-19 testing.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/nursing-homes-to-receive-antigen-rapid-test-kits-by-next-week
[0:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Suma pamu:- As per Experts... Most of the Serious illness cases we are seeing after 2 weeks of Getting infection
So we need to expect more Serious cases in 2 weeks time.
Now 900 also we might feel OK, as Many are Having Mild infection only...
But we don't know what Next 2 weeks Unveil!!
[0:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: Next few weeks critical as Singapore faces unprecedented Covid-19 situation: Ong Ye Kung
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/next-few-weeks-critical-as-singapore-faces-unprecedented-covid-19-situation-ong-ye
The country is riding this wave in a "relatively naive state, without natural antibodies but with vaccine-generated immunity", Mr Ong said. Thus, it is prudent for the Republic to hold its position while deciding on its next steps.
[0:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: PM Lee receives his Covid-19 booster jab
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong received his Covid-19 booster jab at the Singapore General Hospital on Friday morning (Sept 17).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/pm-lee-receives-his-covid-19-booster-jab
[0:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Makes sense, seems like a good approach
[0:16 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Fair point. Hold tight and monitor closely.
[0:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Our daily number i believe is not cumulative for daily infection ya?
[0:21 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/listen/heart-matter/covid-19-vaccinations-should-they-be-made-mandatory-2182431 Heart of the Matter - S2: COVID-19 vaccinations: Should they be made mandatory?
[0:22 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Listen to the podcast carefully on interview with 2 infectious experts.
Mandatory vaccination is push strongly by certain quarters.
[0:23 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Because the infection number is raging.
[0:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-plans-make-covid-19-vaccine-compulsory-yet-spores-vaccination-rate-already-high-puthucheary
This has been addressed in parliament
[0:26 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Not now.
But won't rule out in future.
[0:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Then stop pushing it now
[0:27 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If circumstances warrant it.
[0:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: From very early on we've already said this is not the right time
[0:27 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then when is the right time?
[0:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I think it is unfair to blame the G for this. Utimately, every single one of us, is responisble for our own health & safety. Just like the speed limit on the expressway may be 90km/h, but if it is congested, then you drive at a lower/appropriate speed. Same here. G allow larger group gatherings. Does not mean you MUST gather in large groups esp. when it is unsafe to do so ๐คท♂️
[0:28 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: When it's not now
[0:28 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Until more lockdown?
[0:29 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If not tell us the criteria and when?
[0:29 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Until we're not the first kukus on the world to say it
[0:29 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
We are not the first.
Indonesia, US are among the first.
[0:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed
[0:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: And so far none of that has met any good responses. So until there's a country that actually implements, SG will not want to be the first mover
[0:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: You've been here long enough, you should know our G's pattern by now.
[0:31 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So your criteria is when other countries mandate.
[0:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: That's not my criteria. If only I'm garmen...
[0:32 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Spare a thought for our Reach colleagues lah. Every day say the same thing and spam everyone, Reach also will sian
[0:33 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Reach keep asking how to solve the covid pandemic.
[0:33 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: https://www.instagram.com/p/CT57VW8g2mH/?utm_medium=copy_link
[0:34 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then have you solve the covid pandemic?
[0:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Doesn't mean you keep spamming the same thing which has already been said in parliament that it won't happen in the near future lar
[0:35 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then you also keep repeating what you say here.
Have you solve the covid pandemic?
[0:35 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Difference is i don't mass spam
[0:35 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I also read your reply until Sian.
Because you are also spamming.
[0:35 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: 2nd round of Rental Support Scheme payouts for owners, tenants to start Sept 22
More than 35,800 tenants and owner-occupiers will receive their second Rental Support Scheme (RSS) payouts from Sept 22.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/2nd-round-of-rental-support-scheme-payouts-for-owners-tenants-to-start-sept-22
[0:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Sure
[0:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Oi. We are not here to solve things, we are here to contribute our ideas and suggestions. Wth are you sprouting about.
[0:37 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Appreciate much! ๐๐ผ
[0:37 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Good you acknowledge you are also repeating what you say and it is not spamming.
I attach the CNA medical experts podcast - not my view.
So I am also not spamming.
[0:38 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: K
[0:39 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion.
Megan
[0:39 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And you are entitled to your view.
And I am entitled to my views.
And this is not spamming.
Right?
[0:40 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Lol
[0:40 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Hosey reffee come out liao
[0:40 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Is there a limit to how much a person post it is not helping the group discussed by flooding
[0:40 pm, 17/09/2021] +Patrick Loke: Agree
[0:41 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Haiya like me say before all ideas are welcome den let the Brains up there do their filtering and job
[0:41 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Can’t even read discussion with just spam
[0:41 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: Good to know that I'm not alone
[0:41 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: If we are here to solve problem den how much we are paid, does the idea of an individual be copy right? If not just share ur idea good or bad no one can judge
[0:42 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Lol… not the first time people pointed out
[0:42 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: When Israel fail then no follow up ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[0:42 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Wahhh this one so direct hahahahaha
[0:42 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: ๐
[0:43 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: Then we die ....
[0:43 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Those have eyes know can liao din say mah
[0:44 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: Dear REACH, the govt effort is really admirable. Thank you. As many businesses are in properties that are also in REITS, is there news to show how Sg REITS have lowered their monthly rents to support these businesses; which in turn, should also have alleviated government rental support needs?
[0:44 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: I only pop by on and off to read.. ๐คฃ
Anyway the government of the world all is opening up… cause they really have no clear solution to solve this
[0:45 pm, 17/09/2021] +Anne: Other than Israel, US and UK, we should observe New Zealand. Their cases seem very low.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases
[0:45 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: WHO say not gonna work… if rich countries are holding the vaccine as the poor have time for the covid to mutate further lol
[0:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: What we can do is reduce the amount of damage already done… and try to recover as much as we can…
The death are unavoidable now
[0:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: Now the Rich countries are saving themselves ....
[0:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Moral and obligations… is very clear lol
[0:47 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: For NZ is low because of tight lockup but not sustainable
[0:47 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: NZ land so much bigger than us… with population similar to Singapore or lesser
[0:47 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: A bit hard to use as model
[0:48 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Big cities almost all fail
[0:48 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: Australia begin to realise this after delta hit. They follow NZ but now realise not sustainable. They are following vaacination rate to open up
[0:48 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Other than China unknown ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[0:49 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: ๐๐ tone from the top!
[0:49 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: For me just follow if I think is safe enough… we can’t have too many views…
Half hearted measure will lead to no where
[0:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: ๐๐
[0:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: This Covid allows WFH and tested to be working for some type of jobs. The WFH is a heaven for animal lover. Looking at my niece WFH, her colleague and lunch partner is her dog ........ This highlight a few things..... how to build teamwork and bonding amongst human colleague in the company and this type of job can be easily outsource to different countries
[0:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Team building almost impossible to build ๐
[0:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: Agreed.
[0:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: You can don’t build at all ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[0:54 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: No more small talks over lunch… no more chit chat at one corner to bitch other than online ๐คฃ
[0:54 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well we only have a few choices to solve the high infection number :-
1. Full lockdown again - business suffer, jobs suffer. And when reopen - infection number rise again in vicious cycle.
2. Get the remaining unvaccinated 5% adults and elderly vaccinated. About 285,000. Use whatever method - so that very few will succumb to serious illness, ICU or death.
3. Let the current situation continue and observe how the Delta wave evolve.
I choose point 2.
[0:54 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: which can be a good thing. No office gossip
[0:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: That is the misconception that a lot of people have about the "flu vaccine".
1. Flu vaccines are only 40 -60% effective in reducing the risk of flu
2. Works only against very limited and specific strains of the influenza virus
3. Common side effects include ALL the symptoms of someone who catches the flu
4. Since the influenza virus is constantly mutating, the vaccines are developed based on the predicted, most likely and/or common mutation for the upcoming flu season.
- 3 (most likely/predicted) strains will be chosen to be targeted by the flu vaccine for that specific season. Some vaccines target 4 strains.
[0:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Haha still gossip just that online or WhatsApp ๐
[0:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: MU is coming…
[0:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Delta just a preview only
[0:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/covid-19-mu-variant-detected-in-47-us-states-and-dc-2021-9%3famp
[0:57 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well we only have a few choices to solve the high infection number :-
1. Full lockdown again - business suffer, jobs suffer. And when reopen - infection number rise again in vicious cycle.
2. Get the remaining unvaccinated 5% adults and elderly vaccinated. About 285,000. Use whatever method - so that very few will succumb to serious illness, ICU or death.
3. Let the current situation continue and observe how the Delta or other strains wave evolve.
I choose point 2.
[0:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: ๐
[0:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Totally agree
[0:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: using flu as example. Every year, there is new jab for different strain of flu of the year as they mutate also. If I go to cold countries every year, I have to get a jab before I fly off during winter time. I do catch a cold when back but not serious
[0:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: When you understand how virus work… why preparing for diseases X is important… hope we don’t see it so soon ๐
[0:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: I hope diease X don't come. 2020 when covid hit, the business drop by 90% almost immediately and though we are not going to survive by june of that year. Fortunately the Government grant and help , we manage
[1:00 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Note:-
Most serious illness, ICU or death come from unvaccinated.
If point 2 is not the solution, then what is?
[1:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Globalisation is the key to spread… there is no way to lockdown countries anymore
[1:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: In our lifetime we will expect it just when ๐ฃ
[1:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: the worry is not just about death. Still too many unknowns about the effects of long covid. Just remember that when you are aged/retired, its the ability/capabilities of the (current) younger generation, that will determine what kind of environment we will be in.
[1:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: no way. Our companies too lock into the Global market
[1:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: It for all cities not just Singapore
[1:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: So what’s your solution for POINT 2?
[1:01 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Read point 2 again.
[1:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Read my point again.
[1:02 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
What is your point?
[1:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: What’s your solution to get the remaining pple vaccinated?
[1:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: We will see higher competition everywhere to create jobs or snatch jobs for covid resistant companies and jobs
[1:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Further examples of how the Pandemic is affecting business, our economy and our reserves. It's a fine line to balance opening up with protecting every single life. Crashing our economy will not protect lives. Removing all restrictions will ruin our economy. We need to find a middle ground. To do that we need public support for a measured and planned reopening. We only get the public support by focusing on data (serious illness and death) and not the emotion of ever higher daily cases. It's a tough balance and I admire the Gov approach which is broadly balanced.
[1:03 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Mandatory vaccination
[1:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Is that YOUR solution?
[1:03 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then what is your solution!
[1:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: I’m asking you. ๐
[1:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Covid 19 till now almost going 2 years… why government choose not to do it? ๐คท๐ป♂️
[1:04 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Since so simple
[1:04 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I answered.
What is yours?
[1:05 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Mandatory vaccination is so broad. The question is how?
[1:05 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then how?
[1:05 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Well you tell me ๐
[1:05 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Think about it while I have my lunch tata ๐
[1:06 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why I not answering you
[1:06 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: But making life difficult for all people not taking vaccine ๐คฃ๐คฃ
I also really don’t understand..
[1:06 pm, 17/09/2021] +Angelica: I think the situation is still under control.
While we do have more cases, there has been more testing as well. Furthermore most of these cases are not seriously ill.
Regarding the booster shot, just wondering if this is the right way to proceed. Or will there be long term implications. (Not in terms of side effects)
If we keep getting booster shots, would that really make us stronger against the virus? Or just increase selection pressure which gives birth to even stronger virus strains.
[1:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: I believe our initial shots are waning due to time plus the virus mutating faster than anticipated
[1:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, we were fortunate to have reserves. However, it's not sustainable. We need to transition to living with covid through personal responsibility.
[1:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Your point is well noted…
Virus will continue to mutate… so there is such possibility.
But not taking almost means you are fighting with everything you have… without help.
Is chicken and egg kind of question. ๐
[1:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - personal responsibility. Get vaccinated. Keep a distance. Wash Hands etc. We know this. Let's just do it and not rely on Gov mandates and restrictions.
[1:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Unless we are ok with selection… which likely the poor countries will have over time
[1:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: The booster mean the body more quickly attacks the virus, which prevents spread and prevents mutations.
[1:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Angelica: Yes just wondering if the vaccine (booster shots) will continue to be effective in the long run
[1:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Without the booster your body still has the 'knowledge' how to create antibodies (assuming you are vaccinated) but it takes a bit of time to make them.
[1:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Long run… no one will know really… any effects for the future also don’t know…
It is what we think is best and logical answer only
[1:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Hence the vaccination
[1:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Well the intention is that by vaccinating and boosting we will eradicate the virus quickly.
[1:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +RH: +1
[1:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Our hope that it will mutate to a weaker version… as we gain time… if become stronger lol.. then gg lor
[1:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Everyone has the choice not to get vaccinated and stay home. No one is forcing unvaccinated people to go out, get ill and spread diseases.
[1:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Like what happen to SARS
[1:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: In 2029, we are still fighting Covid 19. Which can be possible ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[1:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I feel bad for those who cannot get vaccinated and face restrictions, like I feel bad for vaccinated people who get ill. I'm not sure what the solution is to this.
[1:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We cannot allow Covid to spread because we are worried about upsetting people who are not vaccinated.
[1:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: It's as simple as that.
[1:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Those have to sacrifice for the greater good… I do pity them..
But there is no total win win solution ๐
[1:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: If there was no vaccine then we would all be in lockdown still. So unvaccinated people are not being penalised.
[1:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Exactly, not until the virus is gone.
[1:14 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/pfizer-moderna-different-studies-claim-165238610.html
In a recent review published in The Lancet, an international group of scientists argued that vaccine efficacy against severe Covid is so high, even for the Delta variant, that booster doses for the general population are “not appropriate” at this stage in the pandemic.
[1:15 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Only immunocompromised and elderly vaccinated people need the 3rd jab booster.
Population at large currently no need the 3rd jab booster yet
[1:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: To be fair immunocompromised individual have much lesser chance of resistance..
even after 3rd jab. ๐
[1:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Pardon my ignore but why is G not imposing mandatory vaccination?
[1:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Timothy Low: *ignorance
[1:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: If the answer is simple they would have done it…..
Check on Japan vaccination you will understand the risk
[1:18 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Why Japan vaccination fail
[1:18 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Why not many countries mandate vaccination unless require by their job nature
[1:19 pm, 17/09/2021] +Timothy Low: If vaccination cannot be made mandatory then there is no point for Danny to keep suggesting mandatory vaccination?
[1:19 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Haha… he tried
[1:20 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: From day one..
Look for the most forefront countries that implemented.
To convince us..
[1:20 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: Currently the vaccine is considered trial by country health authority. Until it is declare official and no issue, then maybe can be made mandatory. US has declare it recently and that's why Biden has make mandatory for government staffs
[1:21 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: The daily infection numbers are important for forecasting potential crisis developing on the critical (health)care front. Keeping severe cases and mortality rate (%) constant, the higher the number of people infected, the higher the actual/absolute number of patients requiring critical care in our hospitals.
Our hospitals currently have about 11,500 beds, of which, the current occupancy rate in our hospitals is between 75 - over 85%. So even assuming we utilise ALL the available beds to only accommodate critically ill CV19 patients - which is not possible btw - we will be in a major crisis very quickly if the severe cases requiring critical care rise proportionately to the number of infected persons.
[1:22 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, they are important for that reason. I see people reacting to the numbers those, as if the worst fears have already been realised. Gov already has provisions in place to increase beds and if we look at the trends then the severe and mortality cases are not constant. We are now at 98.2% without needing care. This is much higher than before.
[1:23 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: excuse the typo
[1:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Other countries are managing. I'm sure we can learn something from them, even though each country has different circumstances. For example NZ is taking a very strict view, because they are not vaccinated much, compared to France which is over 80% vaccinated. Singapore has found a middle ground.
[1:25 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We just need to monitor that middle ground and adjust according to our situation.
[1:25 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: We need to stop using our reserves to bail out business. We need to open our economy. We need people to take personal responsibility.
[1:25 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: 98.2% of infected persons the 500-600 of us here represents less than 0.01% of the entire population in SG ๐
[1:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Yes indeed! and that means there are many people in Singapore who are infected and don't know it. Including maybe people on this list! ๐
[1:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: + 100000000000
[1:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Unless we are catching 100% of infected people each day....?
[1:28 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: To be fair, it can be made mandatory, there are just choosing not to. Danny wants them to change their mind. That's all.
[1:28 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I keep suggesting because US FDA has grant full approval to the vaccines.
I am pushing HSA for the same and hence mandatory vaccination.
Not only I keep pushing, few MPs and even medical experts push too.
But it is up to policy makers.
Listen to the attached podcast.
[1:28 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes.
Ben you got me.
[1:29 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: mandatory -> who is going to be responsible in the event for cases where there are adverse reaction including life long damages
[1:29 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: OK, it's been lively - I need to get back to work! See you all later! ๐ ๐
[1:29 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Many times, I have managed to change the government mind.
I am trying to on this matter - because it will help to curb the pandemic.
We have no other option.
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Haha that’s why.. don’t want mah
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: till now what we saw on local papers one side while within the community there is another side
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: yeah
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: May lose election leh…
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no govt or ogrnisation will wanna tak ethe risk
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: we dun have the freedom of class action here
[1:30 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: NOT WHEN the pharma have immunity ......
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is emergency use for all c19 vaccine now only
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus mandatory is not possible
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Don’t sign don’t give you… beggars cannot be choose
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: the only way is to take extra precautions on your own. For example, ff you were out and about, when returning home, call in advance, have your baby taken to another room/area within your home, so that you can head straight to shower and change into clean clothes (prepared for you in advance) before you interact with your family members/baby. It is all up to us how careful and/lax we want to be. We cab only control what we do. What others do or how they behave, is beyond our control.
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: occupation vaccination yes
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but cannot force ppl to resign
[1:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: redepoly yes -> after all we had been advocating retrain retrain right
[1:32 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: its not easy, but if that is a real concern, then i think you do have a choice of whether you want to take the extra steps, however inconvenient, to protect your child
[1:32 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Not enough people dying so most will think won’t be me..
[1:33 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but their forehead dun have the mark of evil ->> C19-ED....
[1:33 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus many tida apa ...
[1:33 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is ok 90% mask on
[1:33 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 1 dun mask on / i dun vacc is ok
[1:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: will not kenna
[1:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Thomas: I am afraid some MNC may do it . American is doing it ...
[1:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: heaven will bless me
[1:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Americans mah
[1:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: they have their basis of freedom and liberty but are they going down the correct path ?
[1:35 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: french for example yesterday or 2 days ago just lost 3k nurses health care becuase those are not vacc
[1:35 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: pray that their health system dun crash via la france...
[1:35 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some thing can follow some things cannot follow
[1:36 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then don't complain.
Either point 1 lockdown.
Point 3 live with current high infection number.
[1:36 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If don't choose point 2.
[1:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: lock down not possible unless really out of control or run out of idea
[1:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: point 3 is the target i believe
[1:37 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: after all they dun give us tool for no reason .. like mask, finger gadget and ART kis
[1:37 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is not for exhibition at home
[1:38 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: I’ve already been doing that but I still have no confidence of totally protecting her or if she will get infected
[1:38 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: still having that said i agree some of the lifting of restriction is too fast
[1:38 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Point 3 - 85 serious illness - oxygen and ICU.
About 10 death since Delta hit.
58 cases unvaccinated and 2 partially vaccinated.
[1:39 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I choose point 2. All vaccinated
Where I believe most serious illness and death will be minimal.
[1:40 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Ok what’s the solution?
[1:41 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: will take a lot of work and effort to cover "insurance" for the people ....
[1:41 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: MOH points to Denmark's Covid-19 battle, similar to Singapore's, but children more affected there
No child in Singapore has fallen severely ill with Covid-19 so far, but the Ministry of Health (MOH) has referred to the situation in Denmark as cases here continue to climb.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/moh-points-to-denmarks-covid-19-battle-similar-to-singapores-but-children-more
[1:42 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and till the immunity is taken away little country will impose 100% must inject
[1:42 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I not answering you because you offer no answer.
[1:43 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: think now while the brains think of a new layer approach
[1:43 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the society concept must be change
[1:45 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 1) public must and really must stop findings loop hole to not mask on - small and look insignificant but it plays a big part
[1:46 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
HSA report - no death from Vaccination.
[1:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 2) concept of covid should not be tied to flu - similar family but different like PM Lee says china chinese and sg chinese same same but different
[1:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: u dun need death
[1:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: You keep asking pple for solution and you don’t have a solution yourself?
You’re just blatantly spamming us with stuff the same old boring stuff everytime.
[1:46 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Zzzzz
[1:46 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some medically damage or disability how
[1:47 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is very amazing we have also zero casualty rate here
[1:47 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
HSA report - no such incidents.
[1:47 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: not sure is it because the vaccine is based on certain huaman group dna hahahaha
[1:48 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dun forget mr donald was cure using our blood sample .....dun ask me for prove go search for it it was world wide news
[1:48 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Anything new?
[1:50 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If base on your justification, why government has make 85% vaccination already?
And the message is, vaccination is safe.
[1:50 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hais u no see what i push out
[1:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: media is one
[1:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: society is another story
[1:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so just because 85% got it they can safely say unless u die from vaccine then i compensate ?
[1:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no right
[1:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if walking down the mandatory path there must be given assurance
[1:52 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I know is not easy.
285,000 people - not too many and not too few.
[1:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: just like how the old get vaccination .. they need to be convince
[1:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is not just about words and talk it include action as well
[1:53 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
US FDA has given the assurance and approval.
Only waiting for HSA.
[1:53 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
action is more than 4.55 million has jab and is safe.
[1:55 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If don't solve the root cause by vaccination - then it is a vicious cycle - that every other day we keep asking how to solve this pandemic.
The solution is here.
Whether want to take it or not.
[1:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: am is the same as what WHO mentioned to ask countries to stop the stock pile
[1:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: as one country not vaccine we will all end up fight the virus and its cousin again
[1:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: note who have not too mentioned mandatory
[1:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: again ahh not say i am anti vacc ...
[1:58 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but certain action does make sense from a extremely high level no need Brains type of thinking
[1:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus unless the world leaders drop their ego and pride -> fight this together with whatever current market arsenal we have i doubt we will see any light
[1:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: some are ok with infection going high but little death but like some mentioned what about down the road
[1:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the generation that will over take us these aged blood bag...
[2:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: the effects is not only socially but medically
[2:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: no one till date knows the effects of what we inject hahahaha, quote from WHO "they do not even know what the 3rd jab will do to our bodies as of now"
[2:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: FEAR
Never underestimate the power of FEAR,
FEAR is the result of (personal) risk assessment. Obviously, we all assess our risks differently. In a pandemic like this, 1 of 2 things eventually catches up with all of us, which leads to 100% vaccination:
1. A healthy (or greater) FEAR of the virus vs. "vaccine-risks" leading to the decision to vaccinate. This can also take place with further improvements to the current vaccines and/or
2. Death of the unvaccinated because they had underestimated the virus and/or underestimated the risk of infection
It will eventually converge to 100% vaccination rate.
[2:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: that is no doubt it will be 100% ... but till than ... ;)
[2:07 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes everyone agrees that 100% vaccination will solve the problem.
But currently the stomach is not there to push for 100% vaccination.
That's why I am the catalyst to keep pushing.
I only want the outcome not the process.
[2:07 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: u cannot lah
[2:07 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: reminder we are here to suggest niah
[2:07 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Catalyst? ๐คฃ
[2:07 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if you can PM position will be under your name ... dun mind me saying
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: ๐คญ
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Sick burn bro ๐
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: unless u tell me Reach pay u for successful idea hehehe den i will change my tone also and put on my thinking cap (harry potter where are u )
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Lol ๐
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry is not a personnel attack .... just a comments niah
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: harry potter is sorting hat
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Ppl take the feedbacks here too seriously
[2:08 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: we all know vaccination work but till immunity is remove i dun think so it is going to work
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: immunity for the pharma
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes suggest.
To date, I have change government mind many times.
If things work, I will persist.
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Lol
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes gov only need your suggestion
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: aka pifzer today just release they recall many anti smoking med because of cancer causing elements hahahahaha
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Woooooooow reallllly?
[2:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: woo i did not know that
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: All our scholars are Jiak liao bees
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: My toes are laughing
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: good if govt listen and change from the ground is good but i hope they dun cherry pick
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Heng we have him here
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: So what did you get in return?
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Share share
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Otherwise sg collapse liao
[2:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: personal satisfaction
[2:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: A tick off his bucket list
[2:11 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Why government change from 1 week to 2 week?
[2:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: Hiyoh how many times want to repeat.
[2:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes I’m sure MOH only listen to you and not doctors
[2:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: ehhh chill ppl
[2:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: he might have his way and data
[2:12 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If we don't value add. Only sing government tune - then why need Reach?
[2:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: many of us are professional in our fields but end of the day WE ALL MAN AND LADIES ON THE STREET NIAH LEY
[2:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so if danny have a way to get them to listen maybe we can combine power and make them hear us more reh?
[2:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: u never know
[2:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but i believe brains are not stupid also they see us so many ideas they rojak our idea and come up one also
[2:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: actually why make their job so easy hahahaha
[2:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: perhaps a golfing kaki of a very very senior person?
[2:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Timothy Low: It’s good to suggest, but not to the point of harping the same tune every day. Maybe can just PM REACH on a daily basis instead
[2:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: +100000000
[2:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yup so I say once and stop saying again daily cos if it’s already heard no point harping on it again
[2:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: harping harping spotted hahahaha
[2:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: ok lah everyone have everyone way of making a point and naggy
[2:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dun make till the ref come out again
[2:22 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Let us analyse the trend.
Are people happy with the current infection number and serious cases?
Apparently not.
2. Then what will happen?
Lockdown again!
Is this what people want?
3. After lockdown, many businesses fail and people lose jobs.
Then reopen again.
4 And the cycle keep repeating - because many unvaccinated people succumb to serious illness or death.
Then what is the root cause?
Because many people still have not vaccinated.
[2:22 pm, 17/09/2021] +Patrick Loke: 100% agree! Don’t need to keep repeating and sending screenshots of the same point.
Make our point, perhaps respond to a few follow up comments, then let others air their views.
[2:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: what about social mindset
[2:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Hmmm... I do agree that many of your suggestions are sound, but to think that they are unique ie. only you thought of it/vocalised it, is too much of a stretch, don't you think? ๐ Afterall, there are many other similar feedback channels, both official and non-official. And not forgetting as well, that it is quite unlikely that something that you and me (or anyone else here) had thought of it while none of the hundreds of people/teams within the MTF/G had not ๐
In fact, I am more inclined to think that these forums are nothing more than forums for us to convince/inform each other on hot button issues that the G wants the public to pay more attention to.
I would really be worried if our G is waiting for us to come up with the ideas ๐
[2:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: vaccinated also get infected and if there are too many of such case it will give probability of a new mutation
[2:25 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so in shot vaccination is just one of the means to patch the situation
[2:25 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry hot fixed is the word not patch
[2:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: Totally agreed, "...these forums are nothing more than forums for us to convince/inform each other on hot button issues that the G wants the public to pay more attention to..."
[2:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Shhh not too loud bro lol
[2:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: vaccine + dutifully social practice of safe measure will be a patch
[2:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: dam propaganda approach lor hahahahha
[2:28 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: ๐๐ป Indeed... the steps taken by G will be at the right place at the right time. it's like saying that "a major celebrity will die in the next 6 months" and repeating the same message every day until someone dies doesn't mean this person has the ability to predict the future. even a broken clock is right twice a day
[2:31 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
No I don't think my ideas are unique.
But when problems are not solve and keep repeating itself when the solution is there.
Then something is not right.
Else REACH will not have to repeat this topic again and again for coming to 2 years already.
[2:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: covid problem is not only repeating to us
[2:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: globally all are facing the same
[2:32 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Don't believe:-
1. Lockdown again.
2 or let the infection number rise to new high.
And frustration will continue to build.
[2:32 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is how we want to lessen it i think ...
[2:32 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: we need not be in the ranks of others ..... and so wat if we recover first whil ethe rest are still chasing after tehir own tail
[2:32 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: c19 show how inter connected are we on this planet rock
[2:33 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I don't gloss over my ideas.
I am very focus in outcome.
That's solve the problem and not let it repeat again and again.
[2:33 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and because is a social sickness, the approach s doing it globally on the same direction but now is not possible as only many are still struggling to even get hands on the vaccine
[2:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: In order to have outcome, you need to have a plan a process yes?
[2:34 pm, 17/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Going by your logic:
The solution of mandatory vaccination keep repeating itself and yet G is not adopting it.
Then something is not right.
[2:35 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Unless the government or someone propose a better solution to make 100% vaccination.
I will happily support it.
Until now, no one has better ideas and the infection number are raging and lockdown could be impending.
[2:35 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: no ah, his point is nag long enough, he can convince the garmen
[2:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: So you are that someone who can solve the problem la!
[2:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I have no doubts about your (pure) intentions, but I do question the methods.
Stop and listen... especially when more than 1 person is giving the same feedback .. repeating the same thing while expecting a different result makes no sense....and really.. most times, it is more effective when someone else is delivering the message (on your behlaf).
For example, notice how the G is using this channel to let us (others) broadcast the message on their behalf instead of blasting it in our faces over and over again themselves? ๐
[2:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but but even the vaccine are getting infected thus add to raging number
[2:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so is not only abt vaccine as the sole solution
[2:36 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it needs layer and fencing approach .....
[2:37 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Good if the vaccination rate improve, I will be very happy.
[2:47 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: The message is very clear... all that the G can do ie. provide vaccines (affordably, in fact, for free), personal protective gear (masks), education campaigns to encourage better hygiene/limit spread, regulations/restrictions to influence certain habits/behaviours, healthcare when someone falls ill ... has already been done.
We have already achieved over 80% vaccination rate for eligible persons. The rate, if stagnates over the next few weeks/months, will mean rest are the "natural rate" of unvaccinated persons.
The rest...is up to each and every one of us.
The G is not worried about 1000 new cases, but rather, out of the hundreds/thousands, how many will require ICU beds. We have 11.5k of these now. In total, for ALL patients, not just CV19 ICU patients. Of which, abt 80% is currently occupied by patients with non-CV19 ailments.
When the rate of ICU bed requires rise fast enough, the G will have no choice but to call for a lockdown because not doing so, may lead to a collapse of our healthcare system. That in turn will have more severe and longer-lasting impact to our economy and society.
Just remember ... it is now left to us .. nothing more the G can do from here .. unless more positive developments/breakthroughs are achieved on the vaccine and therapeutics front.
[2:47 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
For now we only have 2 choices.
1. Let the current infection number exceed 1,000 - I believe will be coming soon.
2. Slam the brake and lockdown.
[2:49 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Both are not my choice.
[2:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Take a step back, look at the bigger picture,
Not everyone can survive another lockdown. If you have friends/relatives who are small biz owners, you will understand their fear. Its not that people are not afraid of CV19...its that the threat of financial ruin...the inability to put food on the table for the family is more immediate, more certain and at least as devastating as potentially catching CV19.
WE can do our part. The restaurant can be open, but does not mean you have to go. Order take-away if you can. Support and help small businesses and daily-wage workers. Understand that not everyone is as privileged as you to be employed in a role that still pays your wages in full, on time, even if you do not need to step into the office.
[2:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Phyllis: ๐๐ป as a biz owner myself, EXACTLY!
[2:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: that's where society is a problem
[2:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: i did classify c19 is a social sickness
[2:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: it thrive well in a social environment
[2:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: resturant open cannot must go out eat
[2:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: business still screams that cannot survive need to have more opening
[2:58 pm, 17/09/2021] +Patrick Loke: The best comment I’ve seen today. ๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป
[3:09 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: tbh no ones wants to lockdown ever again, me included hence never suggested anything like that
[3:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: but just being vax isn't good enough i feel, need to show recent swab results
[3:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: i hope the gov can do something where everyone goes to swab frequently
[3:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: something like china
[3:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: one estate kenna they swap everyone in the estate over like 1 week period with each person kenna swap like like 15 times at least
[3:13 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1 swab $30.
[3:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but in their case they need to lock down due to huge population
[3:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: i mean i would definitely feel safer if ppl around are vax and negative swab
[3:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: the chance to spread would really be miniscule liao
[3:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: if still can spread like that i think only god can help us already
[3:16 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: really need god to help if the virus like some say have inbuilt AI it seems
[3:16 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hahahaha
[3:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 1st c19 plays the game like musical chair
[3:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: aisa -> us /eu -asia -> us / eu
[3:17 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: den it adds on another layer mutate where now it spreads even fast liek clustered bomb plus stealth ....
[3:18 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: I can understand why the Young adults may not share the same anxiety and worries as someone like myself, who have aged parents and young toddlers living in the same household.
I was also a young adult during the SARS pandemic, and I remember the feeling back then. Truth is, I didn't feel much fear/anxiety, and seriously didn't get what all the fuss was about.
Looking back and comparing to my current circumstance, I realise the reason is not ignorance nor indifference, but rather, it was about our priorities.
Being at different stages in life, means different priorities and risks.
For the young, single adults, the challenge of meeting and cultivating a relationship that will eventually lead to the formation of a family is more real than the fear of our unvaccinated child catching CV19. Can we fault them for that?
In our pursuit of zero infections, have we considered the feelings of those who require the normal functioning of society/economy in order to survive? Just earlier, I picked up my lunch from a previously popular F&B nearby and in the course of making small talk, the guy said "if lockdown 1 more time, we really have to close shop already". It was not just what he said that struck me, but the resignation in his voice that stopped me in my tracks.
We do what we can. Trust and hope that the rest will do their part. to only engage in what is necessary to them.
This pandemic exposes the kind of society we live in and the people we are. The ones where the people are more compassionate, selfless and helpful towards each other, will survive.
CV19 is as much a challenge for science and medicine, as it is a test of our social cohesiveness.
[3:18 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is getting smarter with each mutate
[3:19 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: having all that discuss... something we should be proud of
[3:20 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: singapore besides china had been the ice breaker in sending vaccine to our neighbours ...
[3:20 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hey we are good neighbor ya , think our govt also know they dun do well neither do we.. den open for who ... invite infected to come in again meh ... den dog chase tail again
[3:22 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: this is good strategy
[3:22 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: fight the "war" overseas
[3:22 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: actually is a movement call upon by WHO now
[3:23 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but many countries brush WHO to one side
[3:23 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: infact our Mr Tharman was in that particular conf i listen to ....
[3:23 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: he was the so call fin portion of the committee. so proud fyi in case many singaporeans do not know
[3:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: in this week conf (is open to public) africa now only have 2% vaccine and their population is as ig as india if i heard not wrong
[3:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so imagine 90% of the world is vaccine , we have remaining africa that is not vaccine can we gurantee the end of dog chase tail for C19 stop.. no according to WHO these unvacc in africa will be the mothership for new variants or maybe even new sickness to be unleash....
[3:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: thus they call for global effort
[3:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: there are some other statement WHO made which i dun wan share cos it sure hurts some feeling here hahaha
[3:26 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but am happy to hear those words from a global body
[3:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/POlMKy-Y7ow
[3:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: yes correct all of us is in this together like it or not
[3:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: US as in earthling hahahahahha
[3:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but sadly the basis of many countries are is ''economy'
[3:27 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: ok some good news
[3:28 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: travel bug -> oct 15 thailands sawadi to you again !
[3:38 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-r-number-reproduction-new-cases-2181166
MTF Lawrence say that our Rt number is more than 1. And this is not what we want.
[3:43 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: 100% vaccination is not the solution to open up.
We will open up even if not 100% The point of thinking if 100% vaccinated your problems will be solved. As seen in many countries, it doesn’t work.
The virus constantly changing, booster or what, yah it will help for the current strain, but whenever there is a new one. We might not be in time to create and distribute out.
As social animals, the urge to keep in contact is always there. Is the fabric of our society and civilisation.
The understanding of what we should do in times of pandemic to prevent a secondary spread every time it comes in.
Everyone plays a part in it. Not expect government to do this next that so that it will not happen.
At the rate really when disease X comes, we will see the end to many countries and many lives will be lost.
[3:49 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: When you see infection number more than your theoretical number of protection, based on 82% vaccinated (95% effective)
4.1% or 0.24 mil people infected. Realise will be too late.
[3:50 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Improved standards for new migrant worker dormitories
The authorities have finalised a set of improved standards for all newly-built migrant worker dormitories, including a cap of 12 residents per room and lowering the number of people who have to share toilets.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/improved-standards-for-new-migrant-worker-dormitories
[3:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/getting-a-mild-infection-after-covid-19-vaccination-gives-best-protection-against
[3:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gov wants us to get infected
[3:52 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: It’s “better” for us
[3:53 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
With Vaccination as the foundation protection.
[3:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: does it mean the vaccinated people should hold "covid parties" like "chicken pox parties"??
[3:54 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Look like the government knows what to do - but waiting for the right moment to act.
[3:54 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: is there such a thing? ๐จ
[3:54 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: i haven't heard of it lol
[3:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ah Heng: was about to say this too, remind me of old wife tail but the objective was to get infected asap to reduce suffering later in age
[3:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: errr.... depending on generation lah. when i was a kid, the parents from the hood will bring their young kids over to someone's house if their kid(s) have chicken pox in the hope that they will kena early, so that it doesn't hit during the school term, during PSLE, or there was this belief that the older you kena, the harder you'll be hit with the blisters.
[3:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: ahhh ok
[3:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: cos i haven't kena chicken pox before and i got vax during sec school
[3:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: wah lau, how young are you??? my time don't have chicken pox vaccine!!!
[3:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Actually that’s the only way…
Is a vicious cycle to keep taking booster..
[4:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Not the virus version is not as deadly… with the current vaccine the amount of sick expected is lesser.
There is no amount of vaccine development can compete with the virus development within billions of people..
[4:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: at risk of spamming, i feel it's a matter of messaging. it's one thing to say "sooner or later will kena", vs "it's better for you to kena". because even if you DO develop a stronger immunity on your own, being infected means you can pass it on to an elderly in your household. regardless whether he/she is vaccinated, it's still a risk.
[4:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Hence the elder need to take if possible..
Kids really I don’t want them to take.. not sure what is the future effect is ๐
[4:10 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Legit concern of vaccine develop in such short time ๐ฐ
[4:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: Who should get Covid-19 booster shots next in Singapore?
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/who-should-get-booster-shots-next
[4:11 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The answer to the solution is right there.
Vaccination.
Endemic.
Get infected - vaccinated immunity + natural immunity.
But 285,000 don't even have the foundation protection. So how to adopt this approach?
The answer stare right in front of everyone.
And the Government is very aware of it.
Just waiting for the right moment to act.
[4:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: Pace of reopening amid Covid-19 depends on price Singapore is willing to pay, say experts
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/pace-of-reopening-amid-covid-19-depends-on-price-singapore-is-willing-to-pay-say
The nation can open up faster if it is willing to accept six or seven deaths a day. It may not be able to do that if it wants to keep the death toll closer to what one sees for influenza, which is two a day, he said.
[4:21 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Denmark do the reverse.
Let everyone infected. Many die.
Vaccinate.
Then got natural immunity + Vaccinated immunity.
Now Denmark happily open - with very little death.
Singapore must do the reverse.
Get everyone vaccinated.
Then natural infection.
Then we will have vaccinated immunity + natural immunity.
Minimal serious illness and death.
Then happily we open for endemic.
This is the drive that our government is doing and must do it well.
[4:24 pm, 17/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya. Esp the younger gen. They dun even have vaccine available for them yet!
[4:26 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oct 5 years to 11 years old.
Early next year 6 months to below 5 years.
[4:27 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I think government is waiting for the right moment, when all jigs, vaccines, safety data are in place before they will follow what the US FDA do.
[4:28 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Else if we follow Denmark ways, many households will have to cry in the wake.
[4:31 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/covid-booster-shots-fda-staff-declines-to-take-stance-on-pfizers-third-doses-citing-lack-of-verified-data.html
[4:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Anne: I spoke with 2 seniors who refuse to vaccinate. They are both 80+ years old. Both have no known serious illnesses.
One of them said in her life she has never been vaccinated - so not going to start now. She told me she has been preparing for death for many years. She has successfully raised her grandchild to an adult which was her last wish, so if she goes now she has no regrets. She said one has to die some day, and she will not defile her body with a vaccine that makes her body into a spike protein factory. If the G keeps on harassing her to vaccinate and accuse her of hogging hospital resources, she is willing to sign a waiver form not to use hospital resources when she gets infected with Covid-19.
The other lady just said she’s already so old, please let her die in peace. I had told her the G said she should vaccinate because of her age. Usually she’s very obedient - doesn’t question the G. But this time, don’t know why, she was very stubborn - her “no” means no.
Basically both elderly ladies show no fear of death. Maybe the more a person ages the less he or she fears death.
Regarding the Covid situation, I came across an interesting update from MOH yesterday and today. Yesterday’s update showed that around half of those who are critically ill are fully vaccinated, which was a surprise to me. When I looked at today’s figures I saw that MOH no longer provides updates on the seriously ill by vaccination status. Can the expert committee explain what is happening? Why are more fully vaccinated people becoming seriously ill? Isn’t the vaccine supposed to protect them from becoming seriously ill? Why isn’t MOH providing these seriously ill figures by vaccination status anymore?
[4:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +Anne: Update as at 15 Sep 2021.
[4:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: " if she goes now she has no regrets." will she regret passing on the disease to her grandchildren because she didn't vaccinate?
[4:57 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: Or maybe she can agree not to see her Grandchild anymore so she doesn't risk infecting her.
[4:58 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: The message to older people is not to be selfish. Get vaccinated to protect your family. Stop the Spread - get Vaccinatesd.
[4:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: "Basically both elderly ladies show no fear of death. Maybe the more a person ages the less he or she fears death." If they want to die, that's sad. But why put others at risk?
[5:00 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: I mean, if they are OK to die, then fine, but it's not right to put their families and the public at risk. Why don't they see that?
[5:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: they are putting a strain on the hospital , if they are severally ill
[5:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: can they sign a form or something
[5:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: if they rather die
[5:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: then to be save in the hospital
[5:02 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: The % of people vaccinated is much higher, so the proportion of vaccinated people is therefore much much lower. If there are 4m vaccinated and 1m not vaccinated but there are 50 of each ill, then the vaccine is proven to be 4 times safer than not being vaccinated.
[5:03 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ben: "Why are more fully vaccinated people becoming seriously ill? Isn’t the vaccine supposed to protect them from becoming seriously ill?" does my message above answer your question?
[5:11 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: Today I came across a very "interesting" comment from someone.
She said, she likes Apples, so each time she is at the market, she ends up buying 20 apples at a go. Obviously, she cannot finish eating all the apples and over time, many will turn bad/rot.
Someone told her that placing the Apples in the fridge can extend the shelf life of the Apples She was skeptical and believe that the Apples will still turn bad/rot eventually and in fact, the fridge/cold Apples is bad for health. She decided to give her friend's suggestion a try.
So the next time, she would leave 4 Apples out in the open and keep the other 16 (80%) in the fridge. Since she believes that cold Apples is bad for health, she would only eat those that are not in the fridge. Over time she observed that some of the uneaten Apples in the fridge had gone bad.
She concluded that ALL THE APPLES THAT TURNED BAD, WERE THOSE THAT WERE KEPT IN THE FRIDGE.
[5:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Ugh
[5:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Anal ogy
[5:12 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Analogy
[5:13 pm, 17/09/2021] +Kwok Leong: Agree with Ben. Choosing to be unvaccinated doesn’t only have personal consequences. It could affect everyone you come in contact with. I feel it’s a bit selfish to think that it’s your personal choice and you’re not afraid to die.
[5:35 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If 285,000 unvaccinated people contribute to 59 seriously ill and 58 death
Versus
> 4.55 million vaccinated contribute to 65 seriously ill and 1 death.
Then clearly fully vaccinated people have much higher chance to survive in covid.
[5:47 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My only complain is - how to hasten the process of Vaccinating the remaining 285,000 elderly and adults.
Probably government can offer a big monetary reward to the one that offer good working ideas or actions that successfully Vaccinate the remaining unvaccinated people.
[5:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/RoBz8a14h2I
Lesson #1
[5:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: S'pore's daily Covid-19 cases to hit 1,000 soon in 'rite of passage' before situation stabilises
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spores-daily-covid-19-cases-to-hit-1000-soon-in-rite-of-passage-before-situation
[5:51 pm, 17/09/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/DPLLdLzept4
Lesson #2
[5:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: S'pore's daily Covid-19 cases to hit 1,000 soon in 'rite of passage' before situation stabilises
Singapore is likely to see 1,000 Covid-19 cases a day soon with the number of daily cases doubling every week, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on Friday (Sept 17).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spores-daily-covid-19-cases-to-hit-1000-soon-in-rite-of-passage-before-situation
[5:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: Gov prepared to hit up to 3K right?
[5:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Singapore eases border restrictions for travellers from countries such as Poland, Saudi Arabia and France
Travellers from more countries, including Poland and Saudi Arabia, will be able to enter Singapore with fewer restrictions, after these countries were deemed to have lower risk of Covid-19 infections.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-eases-border-restrictions-for-travellers-from-countries-such-as-poland
[5:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Likely going to hit 1k on weekend
[5:53 pm, 17/09/2021] +Alvin Lim: Brace yourself
[5:55 pm, 17/09/2021] +Boon: No turning back. Sg can’t do/can’t afford another “lockdown” just based on number of reported cases (that is a mix of mild, moderate…)
[5:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +CQ: I'm sorry to say this, but when the experts say "it's better for the immune system to kena", I would like to see them lead by example. Go mask less in a covid ward.
[5:56 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Home recovery scheme to be expanded to fully vaccinated COVID-19 cases up to 69 years old
From Saturday (Sep 18), the home recovery scheme for fully vaccinated COVID-19 cases will be expanded to include patients up to 69 years old, the Ministry of Health (MOH) announced on Friday.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/home-recovery-scheme-expanded-vaccinated-covid-19-cases-69-years-old-2185231
[5:58 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: 100 vending machines to be deployed for collection of self-test kits: MOH
Those who may have been exposed to the Covid-19 virus can collect their self-test kits at 100 vending machines across 56 locations in Singapore from Saturday (Sept 18).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/100-vending-machines-to-be-deployed-for-collection-of-self-test-kits-moh
[5:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Rama: Understand
[5:59 pm, 17/09/2021] +Joseph Ong: ๐
[6:04 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Or better still.
Why not government throw a tender to invite private sectors comprising of socialogist, psychologist, doctors etc - to form groups to knock at the door of those unvaccinated.
Base price + commission for successful persuasion in urging unvaccinated people from vaccinating.
[6:05 pm, 17/09/2021] +Caleb: +1
[6:06 pm, 17/09/2021] +Ken Loh: +1 lol
[6:14 pm, 17/09/2021] +Jerick Tan: I don't think this "rite of passage" is necessary.. It's not as if the country needs this outbreak in order to achieve herd immunity. It's obvious that the outbreak was engineered by the intentional tweaking of policy. It's really appalling, the way OYK has been communicating over the heads of the masses
[6:14 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This will be cheaper comparing to :-
1. Lockdown
2. Runway infection number and hospitalisation.
If contracted private sectors can knock on the door and successfully persuade the vaxx hesitant or anti-vaxx to vaccinate.
[6:15 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Covid-19 home recovery model expanded to include those below 69
This care management model for Covid-19 recovery has been the default recovery setting for suitable patients from Aug 30, when the pilot first started. Since then, 32 patients on this care model have been discharged.
More https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/covid-19-home-recovery-model-expanded-to-include-those-below-69
[6:23 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Private sector can also profile their target audience according to religious faith - so that counsellors and religious teacher can be part of the group visiting the elderly and adults - to persuade them to look beyond life and death and social responsibility.
This could persuade the vaxx hesitant or anti-vaxx people.
Sometimes private sectors have the means to do the unbelievable.
[6:23 pm, 17/09/2021] +Jerick Tan: "Rite of passage" implies necessity. IMO, claiming that it's necessary shows blatant disregard for other options and opinions. I understand that he thinks it's the best option, and can accept that. But to claim that it is necessary, or the only option, really rides roughshod over the people.
[6:28 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Remember how trump target their audience using Cambridge analytica - profiling big data and using AI - to understand their concern - and then target solutions to unlock using the right key.
[6:28 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Trump then go on to win the election.
[6:45 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:54 pm, 17/09/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Vaccination is the Key!
[7:01 pm, 17/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
======
No comments:
Post a Comment