REACH 278 - What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures? (SK)

29 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:14 am, 29/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

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[10:16 am, 29/09/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Singapore's healthcare system is under tremendous pressure, and the latest Covid-19 restrictions are needed to stabilise the situation and prevent avoidable deaths, said Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday (Sep 27). These measures, which aim to slow the pace at which cases are rising, will give Singapore time to build up its healthcare capacity - including facilities outside hospitals - so that it can cope with 5,000 or more cases a day. 

Since home recovery was made the default mode of care for COVID-19 patients here from Sep 18, the Ministry of Health (MOH) has tapped private telemedicine providers here to help attend to COVID-19 patients on home recovery. Many have said, however, that they are stretched thin and face an influx of calls, with some patients waiting up to an hour to see a doctor. 

💬 What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures? 

The latest restrictions on social gatherings kicked in on Monday - a day after Singapore reported nearly 2,000 new cases - and are set to last a month. Under the new rules, people are not allowed to gather in groups larger than two, and working from home is once again the default. 

Vulnerable communities such as the visually impaired have been particularly hard-hit by the pandemic, with many struggling to navigate changing restrictions. Separately, Singapore’s population has also been negatively impacted, with the overall population, birth rates, and marriages falling this year due to the pandemic. 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/latest-covid-19-curbs-can-prevent-avoidable-deaths-allow-time-to-boost-healthcare 

👉 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/home-recovery-telemedicine-providers-stretched-thin-but-working-round-the-clock-to 

👉 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/psle-candidates-in-quarantine-need-to-inform-school-by-12pm-take-daily 

👉

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/how-covid-19-and-other-trends-hit-singapores-population-in-8-charts 

👉 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/navigating-virus-measures-a-challenge-for-those-with-visual-impairment 

👉 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/sporeans-socialising-and-dining-out-less-mental-well-being-has-declined-covid-19

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[10:25 am, 29/09/2021] +Dan: Tmr is PSLE. I can imagine the anxiety of the pupils sitting for the national exam. Especially those who are tested positive. 

Please give clear instructions for the students on how they can take their PSLE even when they are quarantined. Thank you.

[10:34 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Seems like MOH didn’t anticipate the demands of Home Recovery in advance, resulting in many frustrations of those put on this programme. Perhaps MOH should enlist other ministries help in managing the influx of cases. For eg, NSFs, grassroot leaders and etc

[10:34 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Home recovery need better short and concise explanation, i learnt a case where a person had been just swap but instruction is he still have to submit ART before xx hours? does it make sense? Also which part of the infection phase where health experts are so sure that the care taker or those in the same confine space will not be affected? aka child infected sure needs to have care giver (but care giver no qo and no need swap??) same for adults i positive case but stay in a room within a hdb flat  u can confirmed the spread will not take place within the household (maybe very little chance but is still a spread)

[10:35 am, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: +1

I think they have asked SAF for help

[10:35 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Perhaps can even recruit public volunteers

[10:36 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: I got a friend only received a health risk warning 7 days after exposure. That’s a bit too long and who knows he or she might have contacted and spread to other people.

[10:41 am, 29/09/2021] +YT: Home recovery, to me, seems like a idealistic idea.  It will work if people are matured enough, socially responsible enough.  Unfortunately, we all know people are not all that way.  So, it is an ideal state that we wish to attain but may not be able to achieve due to human nature.  I worry for the healthcare system if people in home recovery "get around the system" and continue the chain of infection to their immediate family members, neighbours, etc.,  I have no better recommendations, unfortunately.  So, short of being a stone thrower, I am hoping for the best but need to point out the shortfall of such a plan nonetheless.

[11:08 am, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: those Tested Positive can not Attend exams

Only those under QO 

HRW HRA 

Can attend exams as per MOE clear instructions.

(School also given instructions separately)

[11:13 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: +1

I know of several ppl who hv bn put on home QO. 

They all say that the direction is not clr,  or they didn't get the self test kits they were promised, etc etc. 

Ther is now a Telegram msg grp tt has grown to >11k users,  10% active within the grp.

MOH has assigned a few ppl to assist this grp of ppl on QO.  

But ther needs to be more clarity on how other household members of affected person can take care of the affected person & themselves. 

In an HDB flat, ther is only one master room en suite. 

Then wat abt the rest of the household sharing the common bathroom?  

Do they disinfect after every use (or wat)?  

How to social distance within such a confined space if ther r,  say,  more than 5 members in the household?

[11:16 am, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: With the use of smart technology nowadays, why not MOH create a AI chat robot to manage the enquiries of those put on QO?

[11:26 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: 5 more seniors died ytd. 

It seems wat we r doing...  getting seniors vax  ... is futile...  

Is ther sth tt we hv missed abt the virus and its effects on the older population? 

Again, I've asked b4 - r u sure booster shot is the answer. 

Wat happens another 6 months down the line  ...?

👆🏻Hence, I think we need to re examine the situation and try to take a different perspective on this virus  - how is it affecting the elderly who r alredi vax 

- did the efficacy lvl drop over time? 

- how long since their last dose and getting infected? 

- which vaccine was taken? 

- is a booster shot necessary and is the interval time frame of 6 months sufficient? 

I hv a fren whose took her 2nd dose in April . She was invited to take booster shot in October - exactly 6 months apart. 

We feel it is too soon? 

Is the gov team fatigued &  grasping at straws now,  just to derive a solution for us but which is nothing more than a temporary fix? 

Wat next after this booster shot and infection/death rates still do not stop?  

It looks like we may need to go back to the drawing board. 

What hv we missed (not noticed) ?

[11:29 am, 29/09/2021] +Dong Liang: Go back to the drawing board means go back to circuit breaker?

[11:31 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: Sori. 

Wat I meant was MOH to re look at their approach (investigation & study)  to wat the virus is doing, 

not at SMM.

[11:34 am, 29/09/2021] +RH: no more CB, pls! 

We r barely coping w current SMM restrictions ... 

Biz & livelihoods alredi having hard time.  

We still need to survive (somehow) amid this crisis!

[11:39 am, 29/09/2021] +Dong Liang: Unfortunately the cases will remain high for a foreseeable future if no CB. We all have to live with that. The anxiety of getting exposed to a positive case is so real now.

[11:40 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: living with a 0 infection and death is not possible that's reality

[11:40 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: neither are we in endemic phase instead is progressing to it

[11:40 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: endemic like govt says certain safety measure still remains like masking on

[11:41 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so society have to drill this into the mind

[11:41 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: next society by hook or crook have to learnt to be responsible not only to themselves but as a social being

[11:52 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210903/Third-vaccine-dose-reduces-transmission-and-severe-COVID-19-nationwide-in-Israel.aspx

Third vaccine dose reduces transmission and severe COVID-19 nationwide in Israel.

[11:53 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The message from Israel is clear: Covid booster shots should be standard.        

Third doses are highly effective at preventing people from becoming infected with Delta, among those who are willing to be vaccinated.

When third doses dramatically reduce a person’s susceptibility to infection, it creates a barrier to the onward transmission and spread of the virus. 

https://sg.yahoo.com/news/message-israel-clear-covid-booster-104738516.html

[11:55 am, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: and look how the number of cases in Israel went parabolic

[11:55 am, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: If it s really endemic, stop counting cases; stop contact tracing. Those who are sick stay at home or go to hospital if needed

[11:56 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 3 - Areas of Improvement - to mitigate the covid breakthrough and live with virus in endemic

1. Preventing or greatly reduce covid transmission.

- Explore nasal spray vaccine - as covid blocker to prevent transmission

- Or other solutions that can prevent covid transmission.

2. Vaccinate the remaining unvaccinated - 5% adults and elderly, 10% children below 12 years old (Pfizer has send all data about the children trial to US FDA, early Oct 2021 should have grant emergency approval).

Source :- https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-talks-over-full-license-covid-19-vaccine-singapore-2021-09-24/

Pfizer in talks over full license for COVID-19 vaccine in Singapore.

Full license is a prelude to compulsory vaccination.

Only when 100% vaccination is achieve like smallpox, measles, TB, polio, diptheria, mumps etc for covid --- and we truly live in endemic.

3. Booster 3rd shot for above 60 years old have shown to be beneficial - and can prevent breakthrough cases leading to death, ICU, oxygen - as the 5 vaccinated death are > 60 years old with co-morbities illness.

4. Keep abreast of theuraptics treatment - eg. monoclonal anti-bodies cocktail treatment that have been effective in treating covid patient.

5. Unless we can do all of Part 3 --- we have to be mentally prepare ourselves from periodic lockdown --- because the moment we reopen for endemic without addressing all of Part 3 --- we will experience the same situation that we are going through currently :-

- Spike in infection number

- Spike in hospitalisation, serious cases or death

- Crippling our healthcare system - and deprive other patients from getting treatment.

This is the Hard Truth --- based on math and science.

=====

[11:56 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: already says is NOT endemic lor... even minister they themslevs say so

[11:57 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is progress towards endemic ... stop sharing the idea is endemic

[11:57 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: people will have misconception and go against what is put in place

[11:58 am, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: socially we have people who are already irresponsible couple with this o we are in endemic it just adds fuel to fire

[11:59 am, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Only when whole of Part 3 is address comprehensively - can we effectively tackle this covid pandemic - and transit into endemic.

Else brace for periodic lockdown.

Until and unless we have covid blocker solutions

[0:02 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: To achieve 'full' vacc is only possible for adults..  can't include those who r not eligible for the moment. 

Curr stats of 84% of adult pop rcv both doses has bn remained stagnant for a while now. 

Wat's happening to those taking Sinovac / Sinopharm? 

Speed up the delivery of Novavax  ... like I said earlier...  End Nov seems like a long way away...  U won't get 100% until that comes in. 

Dun get me wrong  ... I'm alredi fully vax.  

But I know of ppl who r waiting for Novavax.

[0:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: I'm also assuming tt the 84% incl those who hv taken Sinovac / Sinopharm  ?

[0:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: 9% of population is kids 11 and below. So 84%/91%=92.3% of eligible population are fully vaccinated, no matter which vaccines.

[0:10 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: Tks for the update.

[0:11 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. The concept of Home Recovery Program I support for the following reasons:-

a. Can give up hospital beds for serious cases.

b. Less cost for patients and taxpayer to bear if rest at home.

c. Mentally people are more at ease at home - for the patients and their families members.

2. Understand there will be teething problems in implementing Home Recovery Program - as it is newly implemented and infection cases suddenly spike and overwhelm the call system.

Progressively resolve the teething problem and let SAF help to cope with the surging demand.

[0:17 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think we have not yet found the solution to block covid transmission.

The moment we found it - the pandemic will stop spreading.

When I read Israel news, it roll out 3rd booster shot to all age groups.

Like Hepatitis B jabs that requires 3 jabs - it seems to have stop the Delta variants from spreading.

Too early to tell, but we can closely monitor and see whether Israel is right or not.

[0:21 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: For home recovery at HDB blocks, maybe we can have a group of people let’s say 4 or 5 people take care of 2 or 3 blocks? A group has SAF and volunteers nearby. Maybe volunteers can be called as national service kind too, like those be called to court. So to ease burden of hotlines and hospitals. Give some training to the group first.

[0:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: Huge lunch crowd in cbd

[0:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Laurent: That's how the government will continue to kill F&B in Singapore

[0:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Dan: Thanks, Suma. Actually my feedback is a response to the cna article, where the P6 pupils who were tested positive are left in "limbo".

[0:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Dan: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/parents-cheer-move-allow-quarantined-candidates-psle-covid-positive-students-still-limbo-2201746

[0:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +jimmy chew: Preparing for lock down 🤣🤣🤣

[0:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: Those vulnerable elders, most with critical illnesses, they won’t come to food courts or restaurants at all. So the restrictions of how many people dining can not help much. Only to make business owners suffer.

[0:34 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Dine in still allow for 2.

2. People are not coming out to eat is because people are fearful of the big infection number - not the lock down.

[0:34 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: The family members of elders need to take caution so that do not spread virus to elders. The hospitals and nursing homes are big risk environments to elders.

[0:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Of course WFH will impact office crowd in CBD.

[0:37 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But all neighborhood f&b are doing well.

[0:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +Timothy Low: Maybe can enlist grassroot leaders to help. As one myself I’m willing to help

[0:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: Novavax not yet approve in USA FDA and WHO right?

[0:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +An fan: Boys under National service can be assigned too, as this is  a war to Covid-19.

[0:44 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: +1 

Community living. Can activate the PA's Community Emergency Response Team

[0:44 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: Or grassroots

[0:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +KS Foong: May be this is a good time to look into NS for female.

[0:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: And the RC's ect

[0:46 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=230627522437869&id=100064718678925

[0:50 pm, 29/09/2021] +Adrian: Think this might be too reactionary though😅

[0:55 pm, 29/09/2021] +Adrian: While agreeing NSFs as a ready source of manpower, I think should also be cognisant that these are also Singaporean sons whom we also need to take care of. Ideally MOH can settle on their own by ramping up capacity, but I think we should not be too quick to deploy NSFs

[0:56 pm, 29/09/2021] +Adrian: +1 to this though! 👍🏻

[1:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +RH: +1

[1:05 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Dun forget nsf role is defences military aspect if these are down in big number we are shit too

[1:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +65 9839 9693: The home recovery is not very clear. I believe your entry PCR test is positive and that is where you are given a home recovery. From there till day 10, we will not know the status. What happens if ART test on day 10 is positive, am I discharged still ? This is very unclear and need to be enlightened. Why there is no further test and it is due to some medical reasons and it is good to inform.

[1:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +65 9106 3752: Home recovery and telemedicine are good options provided the, protocol, criteria, infrastructure, and user capacity are provided for.

Vulnerable communities (such as persons with disabilities, with have difficulty moving around on their own) are perhaps already mainly home, or can be encouraged to stay within their neighborhood. If their risk of exposure (and transmission) is reduced or lesser, and the modes of transmission is close contact as per the info available to us at this point, then the necessity of booster for them is questionable.

[1:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Hmm agree 

Very sad About it

How do they feel 

As every one writing and they end up not able to write 

:(

Very unfair to those young children who missed it.

[1:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

More pandemics will happen unless humans repair relationship with nature: Experts.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sustainability/more-pandemics-unless-humans-repair-relationship-nature-2205761

[1:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +KS Foong: No one knows what had hide inside the melting ice from both poles.

[1:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: repair what .. gove land and built jungle for them, stop eating animals? hahahahaha

[1:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: brain storm is there a better way for c+ / suspected case to transport themself as phv and taxi many of the drivers are of 60 and above

[1:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is a risk

[1:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: i do know c+ or suspected case needs to put in remark something like they are a case so the driver can open windows and take extra measure

[1:44 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Human slaughter animals for food to stay alive and earn money.

Now we reap the covid karma - covid damage our health and livelihood.

Karma is always just and equal - I have realized.

If humans have take more than necessary, one day human will have to repay back - this I have realized.

Thus I hope the world plant based meat and cell culture reengineering meat will become mainstream one day and replace animal slaughtering for food.

Then we can prevent future disease X and future pandemic.

[1:44 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but what if the passenger hide all this exposing the driver knowingly

[1:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: in turn the driver will spread to his envrionment including other pax / family / place of his visit

[1:53 pm, 29/09/2021] +Dan: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/citizen-births-marriages-fall-2020-covid-19-impact-couples-babies-2207161

Forgive my pessimism,. Covid may have something to do with the dip. But there are other things too. Gloomy prospects. Stressful education system. Climate change.

[1:54 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: how to dating when exposure maybe high hahahha

[1:54 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: place are restricted so cannot meet new target?

[1:54 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but for courting couple the world is for them now except no travel of country

[2:01 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Need to check vaccination status before asking someone out for a date... 🤣

[2:01 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: [Sent by Gov.sg – 29 Sep]

COVID-19 FAQs on ART and Home Quarantine Order (HQO) 😷

Tested positive on an ART or need to serve a HQO?

🔗 Visit go.gov.sg/faq-29Sep-art and go.gov.sg/faq-29sep-hqo to get answers to commonly-asked questions:

 What should I do if my ART is positive?

️⃣ Should I get a PCR test if my ART is positive?

️⃣ I’ve been informed of my QO via SMS. What should I do next? 

️⃣ What are the serious COVID-19 symptoms I should look out for? How can I get help?

️⃣ What if there are vulnerable persons at home, such as the pregnant or the elderly?

[2:09 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: Agree

[2:11 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: yeah yeah , excuse me ... xxxx can i check u vaccinated hahahahaha

[2:18 pm, 29/09/2021] +CQ: "Where's your badge??" 😆

[2:19 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: that will pissed off the suitor hahahahahaha

[2:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Patrick Loke: Nanking Row massacre. 😥

[3:05 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Then lift all restrictions and kill humans instead lor.

[3:12 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures?  Still so focused on case numbers, which I understand can lead to higher numbers of serious illness, but equally people are getting covid and if reasonably healthy and vaccinated are all recovering a few days later. Clearly any type of social interaction will lead to transmission. Until COVID is banished from the Earth we need to accept it, or forever be in lockdown, spending our reserves, impacting our kids and our health service. We need a way for people ro recover without stretching our health services.

[3:13 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: The idea that opening F&B will kill everyone is a great example of how much fear there is in Singapore. Why is there not the same fear about the impact of these restrictions on our health, economy and sanity?

[3:13 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: How are citizens in other countries in Europe all alive, considering there are almost no restrictions?

[3:14 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Yeah lets do it let all get infected after all society is not doing our part. Thanks to that small % of self minded people

[3:14 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: I'm not being flippant, but I sense the nation becoming fixated and obsessive about the fear of covid.

[3:15 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Covid is very infectious we know this, and also often asymptomatic. For all we know many of us had it, and recovered already.

[3:16 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Can we start a programme of testing for anti-bodies?

[3:17 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Opening is not a problem we talk so much how come till now we are still blaming the policies? How about the society? As if the society is damm innocent.

[3:17 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: It takes 2 hands to clap

[3:20 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: What do you think of the home recovery protocol and other measures aimed at stabilising case numbers? How have you been adapting to the new measures?

One thing I'm starting to wonder is - is MOH hiding something from us? 

Current case numbers, with 98% mild/asymptomatic cases, and a small minority in ICU - do not warrant aggressive tightening and ongoing contact tracing efforts. There is a significant disconnect here. 

One way to resolve this disconnect is to assume the government is overly cautious. If so, then we should relook into this current "brake tapping" exercise. 

Another way to resolve this disconnect is that the real situation is actually a lot more serious than what the numbers are saying. If so, the measures are warranted, but MOH should come clean and let us know the truth. 

Otherwise, depending on which of the 2 sides we lean on, people will be divided on their opinion.

[3:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: This is a fair way of looking at it.

[3:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Come clean? Society will freak out we saw that with CB. There could be economical implications also look at the current situation we had been listed as dangerous place to visit by USA.

[3:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yep - how ironic is that. We are too dangerous for the US!

[3:24 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: More US people died of Covid than people in WWII, yet with under 100 deaths we are too dangerous.

[3:24 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Also personally i dun find the situation of restricted movement so bad cos outside movement is still allow not cb where everywhere is dead almost

[3:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, I think there might be a sense of "It's not bad for me, so what's the problem"

[3:26 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe if we had more personal choice, people who are vulnerable and anxious can stay home, whilst others who are careful and take sensible precautions can go and live their 'new normal' lives.

[3:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: I agree. People are still out and about. Too many people, in fact.

[3:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Issue is like mentioned is that grp of socially irresponsible types are the case. Unless one is out amd abt everyday, is hard to understand how can such be ...

[3:30 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Misinterpret movement is good for varies reason but must be responsible socially

[3:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Yes even at this current stage the food print still huge, but this helps keeps certain business going, people needs to buy provisions ... Thus i say is not as bad compare to cb

[3:34 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: But that does not means we remain this way

[3:34 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Yes! During CB, retail all not allowed to open. Now no such restrictions. I don't understand why people still complaining.

[3:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Govt is using this time to ramp up resource i think they can see further den us, and maybe to study as part of progression to endemic....

[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +CQ: Best part is that people are still going out and the same people are still complaining.

[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: They simply understand the difference!

[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Public what we do? Grumble, trying to beat the system, saying policies are bad, o it affect people mental health, affect business, affect life style and hahahha latest affect dating leading to marriage

[3:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: All that is listed exist in a ecosystem call society........

[3:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: So why are we complaining while we are slapping ourselves on the face....

[3:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: 😅😂🤣🤦‍♀️🤷‍♂️

[3:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: So hard to please lor.  Customer from hell. Hahaha...

[3:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Society mindset yes is hard to change but if u, u u u megan me Reach do our little part the right way we can push 1 cm closer to a better state

[3:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Is not possible neither it is god speed fast but least we can stop ppl having and doing the wrong things

[3:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Being too hard say iron fist ruling

[3:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +YT: Totally agree! If we all exercise social responsibility and be more considerate, we won't be in this state now. Or maybe we will be in a less stressful state than now. Can't always depend on laws to make us obey.

[3:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Being too soft we make ourself a joke like apple and being called flipsy

[3:42 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Country Cases Deaths Date of data collection

Austria 733526 10741 28/09/2021

Belgium 1238263 25568 27/09/2021

Bulgaria 495397 20638 28/09/2021

Croatia 400108 8606 28/09/2021

Cyprus 119903 552 28/09/2021

Czechia 1690288 30454 28/09/2021

Denmark 357370 2646 28/09/2021

Estonia 154722 1351 28/09/2021

Finland 139678 1069 28/09/2021

France 6995628 116537 28/09/2021

Germany 4203571 93504 28/09/2021

Greece 648091 14727 28/09/2021

Hungary 821526 30179 28/09/2021

Iceland 11722 33 28/09/2021

Ireland 385721 5209 28/09/2021

Italy 4662087 130742 28/09/2021

Latvia 155076 2689 28/09/2021

Liechtenstein 3445 60 27/09/2021

Lithuania 327896 4946 28/09/2021

Luxembourg 77930 835 28/09/2021

Malta 37103 457 28/09/2021

Netherlands 1997885 18154 28/09/2021

Norway 186926 850 28/09/2021

Poland 2903655 75572 28/09/2021

Portugal 1067175 17955 28/09/2021

Romania 1199761 36450 28/09/2021

Slovakia 798921 12596 27/09/2021

Slovenia 290994 4857 28/09/2021

Spain 4951640 86298 27/09/2021

Sweden 1149407 14821 23/09/2021

[3:42 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No EU countries is out of the wood yet.

In fact the infection number and death are still very high

[3:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Really called me old minded if LKY is here i  sure we see tougher rules amd internal social sanctions hahahaha

[3:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: Agree

[3:43 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: Only Norway and Denmark recently want to follow what Singapore is doing - transit to endemic.

[3:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: So word to the ministry draw up ur game plan well, collaborate .... Virus front MOH u are the delta force, society wise whatever ministry u jave to drum up a good war cry to get all on the same line

[3:46 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Trade ministry keep doing ur part to attract business but also teach our business here to fish stop feeding them.... How long u wanna feed dem ...?

[3:47 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Stop making the people happy... Govt job is not that is to secure stability and confidence and overcome barriers for the nations

[3:50 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Individuals have to know we are all in this together from ur house to your kpt to the transport system to your business. There is not me or u affected is WE.

[4:03 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

R0 number = 5 to 9 (Delta R0)

Singapore report R0 spread for Delta is about 5 - as we have >80% vaccinated and we practice wearing mask and social distancing.

(Note :- US report R0 = 9 - as many don't wear mask and vaccination rate are lower than Singapore).

Now let us do a math calculation.

Yesterday infection number = 2,236.

By taking the lower R0 = 5 --->

Day 1 (29Sep2021) = 2,236 x 5 (spread to 5 persons) = 11,180 (within 3 days 1Oct2021 - the highest viral load for Delta after 3 days - and infection spread is the highest.).

Day 3 (1Oct2021) = 11,180 x 5 = 55,900 (by 3Oct2021)

Day 6 (3Oct2021) = 55,900 x 5 = 279,500 (by 6Oct2021)

Day 9 (6Oct2021) = 279,500 x 5 = 1,379,500 (by 9Oct2021)

Day 12 (9Oct2021) = 1,379,500 x 5 = 6,987,500 (by 9Oct2021) --- Singapore total population of 5.45 million totally overwhelm.

We have about 1 million adults, elderly and children below 12 years unvaccinated ---- our hospitalisation overwhelm (1,600 beds to 5,000 beds max for covid patients) and our doctors plus specialists about 10,000 overwhelm. ----- less than 1 month (if we declare Freedom Day for endemic --- and do a EU free-for-all).

No Countries in the World is endemic or a Total Freedom Day --- without high casaulties.

Only Norway and Denmark last week declare endemic --- with high vaccination rate --- but we will have to wait and see whether they succumb to high infection rate and overwhelm their hospitals or not ----- no one knows, yet.

[4:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-emergency-addenbrookes-wait-patients-b1927822.html

[4:04 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Believe this is not a situation we want here, similar to what US is or India a couple of mths ago

[4:15 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore population = 5.45 million.

[4:17 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Note :- Norway and Denmark population about 5.5 million like Singapore.

But look at the land mass of Norway and Denmark - so many times the size of Singapore - a tiny red dot.

Singapore population density is so compact - and 1 outbreak will spread like wildfire.

Unlike Norway and Denmark - where population are so scatter - covid cannot hop and jump and spread like Singapore.

If Singapore do an endemic free for all - we will be doom.

[4:18 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: 😱😱 Scary maths 

:(

[4:21 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: scary take that numbers and say give  very conservative 2% are children

[4:21 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: how that feel ...

[4:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: 😟😟😟

[4:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: and imagine Singapore medical system break down .. how does that feel (remember medical system belong not only to covid but other medical issues as well)

[4:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes 

Totally agree

Thats why i fully support this latest measures.

[4:30 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Thus whatever government policies we make - we cannot monkey see monkey do.

Copy whole log stock and barrel.

We must know our context, learn from people experience - modified and adapt according to our circumstances.

Singapore is unique and we are successful because we use our wisdom and adapt.

Not anyhow copy and paste.

[4:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: same i said this before , cannot just see good and follow, instead take those good points and see if it works in our ecosystem and if not modify ... liek our school teach us wanna copy please be smart .. make some changes

[4:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if we follow US and UK or even France (no pun) think we will be in a worst state ......

[4:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: anyway is high time for the ministry to really work together no more of A is A b is B

[4:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: i hate to see such report about Singapore in international papers unless we consider this news as FAKE?

[4:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: ➡️ Nursing homes to test all residents, maintain separate zones to prevent spread of Covid-19

SINGAPORE - Dividing premises into distinct zones for staff and residents and testing for all residents are some of the measures nursing homes have adopted to minimise the spread of Covid-19.

More: https://str.sg/3T2p

➡️ 5 precautions nursing homes are taking to protect seniors

SINGAPORE - Nursing homes here have been stepping up precautions to safeguard senior residents even as Covid-19 cases continue to rise in the community.

More: https://str.sg/3T2Y

[4:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ace: Does anyone know when nursing homes are likely to allow relatives to visit residents?

[4:43 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ace: It's been almost two years since some of these residents have had visitors

[4:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ace: I'm sure the ongoing pandemic and unceasing restrictions are having an adverse impact on residents

[4:49 pm, 29/09/2021] +Caleb: Am surprised they were not divided into zones earlier

[5:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Is this in 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or ever?

[5:22 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe not - he might tell us that we need to keep the country going and to exercise personal judgement.

[5:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: It is very endemic in France and Italy.

[5:23 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - so we need to get the country going again, and not be so mindful of the fear being spread.

[5:24 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Look at France and Italy infection number and death.

The highest in whole of EU.

[5:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - definitely need some restrictions in place. The debate is about which restrictions, for who?

[5:25 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: From day 1, or since vaccinations rollout?

[5:26 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Speading fear is not helpful. Easy to create panic and extrapolate numbers into doom and gloom.

[5:27 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Do you have the breakdown?

I don't have.

[5:27 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is math, not spreading fear 

And our daily number show the trajectory. Surely this is not spreading fear.

[5:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: No evidence of this. Even in Europe where numbers went very high. I posted earlier the in depth study of the Covid and Children. 1 in 2 million death rate and they were children with underying health conditions.

[5:28 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: You are using maths from day 1 when there were no vaccinations, no care, no restrictions and extrapolating those numbers forward.

[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

72% of Singaporean in survey support the current government measures.

[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: You are the one who posted the numbers!

[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Bad math without public health background is spreading fear.

[5:29 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: So are we allowing public fear to dictate policy?

[5:30 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed.

[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Government make the assessment and determine the current measures and supported by 72% of the population.

You belong to the minority

[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Imagine? This is what I mean, people are allowing their imagination to run away with each other.

[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Boon: Thanks for the transparency. Shouldn’t this be done earlier when Sg politicians talked about living with Covid and news of elderly dying started to be more frequent?

[5:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: I support evidence based decision making. Is that the minority?

[5:32 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The current medical systems is indeed under strain.

Many services cancel and postpone.

This is the known fact.

[5:32 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes - and is this because people are scared and putting the system under unneccessary strain?

[5:33 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Scared or sick?

[5:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: If we don't know, that's a problem.

[5:33 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: R0 is a number that's retroactively derived, based on best available info and varies by environment and population. There's no fixed R0 for a virus. Going by ur projections, everyone in the world would b infected by Delta a few months ago. Duh.

[5:34 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes if no mask no restrictions.

[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Spanish flu wipe out million and million of people.

[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: There's a reason why MOH isn't using primary school multiplication to spread misinformation and fear or to justify ur own point of view.

[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Shrugs

[5:35 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: And how is this is a helpful statement?

[5:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Believe what u want man. U r not credible..just cos u type in numbers don't mean u r right.

[5:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +Boon: With all the greatest respect to our healthcare workers and friends, it begs the question what were the MOH preps done in the past 1+ years - that our system is already under “tremendous pressure” just a few short months after Sg opened our borders amidst messages to Sg to live with Covid?

[5:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Go study public health first before touting numbers. U don't know what u r talking about.

[5:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, this is very puzzling. What was the contingency plan if the virus was to spread as expected when we relaxed measures?

[5:37 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And the government current decision is right and supported by the majority.

And this is an important fact.

[5:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Shrugs

[5:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: No one is denying that. We are looking forward to how to get out of this situation.

[5:38 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: The gov decision is the only choice while there is fear being spread, while there is no thinking about how to deal with the virus and no contigency in place for increased numbers.

[5:39 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: +1

[5:40 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: By that I mean that people are scared and anxious, so until we reassure them it's not as bad as they think (as per the evidence) and that personal responsibility and recovering at home is an option, then what else can we do?

[5:41 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Society needs to come to a more positive and resilient way of thinking. Get real. Get vaccinated. Check the facts and let's work our way out of this.

[5:42 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Even vaccinated get sick, but only need care if seriously ill.

[5:57 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: there had been reports current state already exceed the spanish flu

[5:58 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: 😨😱if so, not surprising!

[6:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: U gotta be kidding. Spanish flu have 25m deaths.

[6:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +Boon: +1

[6:02 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: o sorry my bad is in us history upon double check

[6:02 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ah Heng: as US death rates makes up 14% of the 4.7 million deaths so far

[6:05 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: covid really isn't as bad as a disease compared to what we have experienced in the past. The problem is that the global population does not have prior immunity against this new viral strain. In the past few years, that has obviously changed (i.e. population has built up more immunity against COVID) and deaths/severe diseases have been lowered (relative to infection rates) primarily due to vaccinations

[6:06 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: BTW - Spanish Flu is much worse cos it causes more severe disease in the younger working/healthy population. If COVID is anything like that, our economy and health systems would have crashed.

[6:08 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: SARS, MERS all have much worse fatality rates

[6:09 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: our fear needs to be proportionate to the reality of the disease

[6:11 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: 👍

[6:26 pm, 29/09/2021] +Rama: Can this be checked for facts!?

[6:31 pm, 29/09/2021] +Angelica: Recovery at home is a good move by the government to free up space in hospitals and community wards. Data has showed that most COVID patients are asymptomatic or only slightly unwell. (98%)

So staying at home to recover or quarantine should be ok and reduce the strain on our public healthcare resources.

For those who stay with elderly I think the government has said that they can contact the quarantine officer for other arrangements. Also, this should be the minority.

I do think that we as singaporeans do need to exercise personal responsibility and take own initiative etc if covid infection happens and not just 100% rely on the government to settle all this nitty gritty. 

Looking at how our cases will continue to rise, it’s not realistic to quarantine ev…

[6:35 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心:

Spanish flu is carried by soldiers fighting world war 1.

No one wear mask or vaccinate or have access to medical treatment.

That's why its spreading is so fast and so deadly.

[6:36 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Spreading from continent to continent.

[6:36 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Agree with this - very well put. Whilst I do support the Gov in their general approach, this time around they need to curtail Public Fear that is spreading and creating anxiety.

[6:37 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Also countries denied they had it, only Spain admitted the problem. Gemany and UK kept it quiet because of the war.

[6:41 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Like you I am not happy with the restrictions measures because it impact livelihood and social interaction.

But looking at current infection number, hospitalisation overwhelm and the number of death compare to when we first started - I support the current government measures to tap the brake.

[6:45 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:46 pm, 29/09/2021] +Ben: Yes if they decide to impose restrictions then also please also plan for a way out that doesn't 'surprise' us again and reimpose restrictions. This is the problem.

[6:49 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Before mass vaccination, there are 37 death among the unvaccinated.

After mass vaccination, there are 48 death majority unvaccinated, some partially vaccinated and 9 fully vaccinated.

We need to tap the brake and relook what will be the next best measures - as we tame the current covid rage down.

Doing nothing - we will be doom.

[6:51 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence I propose part 3 must be done to prevent future brake.

[6:52 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.ricemedia.co/features-seniors-not-vaccinated/

I Work With Seniors, And This Is Why Some Aren’t Getting Vaccinated

[6:57 pm, 29/09/2021] +Angelica: I think this is being overly pessimistic. I don’t think SG ‘will be doom’.

But what would happen is more burden on hospital capacity. And vulnerable people like elderly and immune compromised would be at risk. However the general population would be ok.

[6:58 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Doom refer to more death among the unvaccinated elderly or adults and may comprise all unvaccinated children.

Long covid possiblity are there.

[6:59 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/12-english-pupils-report-continuing-155417049.html

12% of English pupils report continuing Covid symptoms weeks after infection

[6:59 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: +1

[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +Joseph: +1

[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +Smiley face: "Using what one's have or access to the FULLEST..."

-- Ian T

[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Unless people treat death as nothing important.

[7:00 pm, 29/09/2021] +John Cheong: Check dictionary. That's not "doom"

=======

REACH 277 - What are your views on the recent tightening of restrictions to slow the exponential rise in COVID-19 cases, while protecting the capacity of Singapore's healthcare system? What can we do as a community to break the chain of transmission? (SK)

27 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:53 am, 27/09/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10.00 am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

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Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 27/09/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

From today (Sep 27), people will only be allowed to gather in groups of two and work from home will be the default for employees who can do so. These measures will last a month until Oct 25, with measures reviewed in two weeks and adjusted depending on the community situation. Home-based learning, which also starts today, will be extended by a day to Oct 7 for all primary and special education schools. Quarantined students will be allowed to take their national examinations this year if they wish to, subject to stringent criteria. 

💬 What are your views on the recent tightening of restrictions to slow the exponential rise in COVID-19 cases, while protecting the capacity of Singapore's healthcare system? What can we do as a community to break the chain of transmission? 

By tightening restrictions now, Singapore is essentially "tapping the brakes" to slow the surge in Covid-19 cases here, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung during a press conference by the COVID-19 multi-ministry taskforce on Friday (Sept 24). The tighter restrictions is needed to ensure that the healthcare system can cope with the ongoing surge in cases, and to allow new healthcare protocols to stabilise, said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong, who also co-chairs the taskforce. 

During the press conference, Mr Ong outlined how the current tightened measures fit into Singapore's four-stage process to treating the virus as endemic. As part of the first, preparatory stage, Singapore began ramping up capacity to cope with an expected surge in cases. While the level of activity has fallen over the past few weeks following a call earlier this month for everyone in Singapore to scale back their activities and slow the transmission of Covid-19, the community transmission of the Delta variant has driven up daily cases much more quickly than expected - before the ramped-up plans are fully implemented and before support systems are fully in place. 

From Oct 4, people aged between 50 to 59 will be invited to take their Covid-19 vaccine booster shots. They will join those aged 60 and above and residents of aged care facilities, who started their booster regime from Sep 15. 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/dining-in-capped-at-two-wfh-the-default-among-6-key-changes-as-spore-tightens-covid 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-is-tapping-the-brakes-to-slow-the-surge-in-covid-19-cases-ong-ye-kung 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/reopening-to-resume-once-new-covid-19-healthcare-protocols-stabilise-lawrence-wong 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/changes-to-covid-19-rules-can-be-confusing-and-unsettling-but-will-buy-spore-time-to-roll 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/students-on-quarantine-or-approved-covid-19-absence-may-still-take-psle-national-exams-moe

-----

[10:11 am, 27/09/2021] +Peter T Ng: Truly whole-of-nation effort to make this restriction work, and to minimise successive brakings.

Everyone needs to adjust and make sacrifices socially and be responsible for testing, isolating self.

Perhaps this exercise will be good roadmap including regulations post Covid for infectious diseases eg flu, chickenpox and HFMD, to minimise impact on society.

We also need to level up sanitisation standards and protocols for cleaning staff everywhere

[10:14 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 1) Totally very happy to clamp down

[10:15 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 2) Residents of Singapore have to WAKE UP and know this is NOT a lock down, rather is a restricted movement else why are people allow to go out and about. Also this is a results of a few % who refuse to corporate with the personnel safety measures that results in this explosion

[10:15 am, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Disappointed that MOH did not ramp up in advance since Delta surge is expected looking at trends in Israel... But understandable given the fast changing environment.

[10:16 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 3) Maybe the authorities should clmap down on the personnel exercise sector ... is a fact many people are ABUSING the system by using brisk walking, jogging, cycling in cluster and mask off

[10:16 am, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Wish MOH to leave more room for individual responsibility and discretion. Blanket restrictions causes much disruption to many individuals and businesses.

[10:17 am, 27/09/2021] +Jess Sunga: What it means if quarantined student, who pass the stringent criteria, do not take their national  exam this year ? Will they be like skipping a year and should still take the exam next year?

[10:17 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: 4) Business have to start to grow up and stop depending on Govt for hand out ... coming to 24mths and still crying always and expecting handout. yes business suffer BUT WHO CAUSES the suffering -> SOCIETY not GOVT

[10:18 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is there not an alternative for p6 students to use their prelim results?

[10:18 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: o levels or n level believe will have arrangement as well

[10:20 am, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: Resident of singapore have to understand such national health program is not only govt effort, majority comes from us the society to make it a success....if till now society still do not understand, it only shows how crackup the local society with individual agenda ......

[10:22 am, 27/09/2021] +Valli: People are just becoming complacent & irresponsible. Not taking it seriously. 

Yesterday saw big groupings 🤦🏻‍♀️

[10:30 am, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Not Exactly prelims 

But They will be Given grades based on Prelims plus Previous Exams Gardes 

All they consider and give the Psle scores

(For those who missed exam with valid reasons)

[11:36 am, 27/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Megan 😊

[11:41 am, 27/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Yes this I agree… we can’t support forever, if they can’t survive can’t expect government to support them constantly. 

Business has to adapt to survive not hopping for grant always.

[11:42 am, 27/09/2021] +Ken Loh: Supporting business that can’t survive after 2 years of help, there is a limit to how much we should help. 

If not business will just depend on government for hand out

[11:52 am, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: 1) understand the need to do so to prevent overwhelming of healthcare facilities, but I do hope the government does a bit more forward planning this time. If we were to truly treat it as an endemic, ~1000+ cases should be "expected". Even after we loosen again, cases will surely continue to rise up again. If hospitalisation facilities is the limiting factor, even if we increase capacity it will just be a matter of time before the exponential increase catches up with capacity, then will kena tighten again. We need to find an equilibrium to avoid the back-and-forth between tightening and restricting

2) based on data, should determine which measure has the biggest impact. for example, if after we implement WFH + HBL + 2 pax social gatherings, case numbers go down, we should study which measure had the biggest impact. For eg, if work places are the issue, we can  maintain WFH but allow 5 pax social gatherings, vice versa. We need a data driven approach in a transparent manner, and not one where it seems the govt just tightens measures in a blanket manner when cases increase. 

3) agree on the need for businesses to adapt (though easier said than done).

[11:55 am, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: 4) for booster shots, are the rise in cases among the vaccinated due to waning protection for vaccinated individuals, or just due to transmissibility of the delta variant? Will booster shots really help? I'm not entirely convinced at the moment. 

Do we have data to show that those vaccinated who got infected have lower antibodies count? If no, perhaps boosters might not be that effective. Think we should focus our efforts on (1) reaching out to the unvaccinated, and (2) reviewing the safety to vaccinate our young children (the only group yet to be eligible for vaccination)

[0:56 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: Agree. 

R booster shots really necessary? 

Wher is the data to support tt antibodies r insufficient after 6 months , to fight the disease?  

How many or wat is the percentage of those who were infected / died,  aged 60 & abv have low antibody count? 

R we targeting the wrong area?  From wat I hv bn reading, it is the quality tt is impt, not the quantity. 

And can we take a diff type of booster,  such as non-mRna type for booster,  instead of the earlier brands? 

6 months gap fr 2nd dose seems rather quick ... My frens ard me who had their 2nd shot in April this year hv bn invited to take their booster. 

But the jury is still out on whether or not the booster shot truly nec. 

I feel as if the gov is beginning to grasp at straws, 

drawing on any available fix-it ideas from other countries. 

Thus far, the gov has bn keeping a steady head .

Now is not the time to grasp at straws. 

Time is wat we need to stay the course. 

However, the virus doesn't care. 

Meanwhile,  we hv no choice but to tighten restrictions. 

Yes, ther r many socially irresponsible ppl out ther. 

I hv been seeing many on the streets without masks, not wearing them properly,  taking risks at being exposed by staying out for long time in crowded areas (with their children),  and even ppl whom I know hv irresponsible family members - like an elderly grandfather who has flu symptoms and dismisses it as such but doesn't see doc, doesn't care to do testing, doesn't let outsiders / visitors know. 

Now, other family members r sniffling and snuffling in the house but all think it's ok not to alert visitors of their situation! 

So ther, even closer to home,  u hv irresponsible behaviour! 😠

[1:01 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: The gov shd continue in its efforts to convince the un-vaccinated & keep review of vaccination for the young. 

A review of booster shots shd be done - is 6 months too early? 

Wat happens after the 3rd shot...? 

Another 'booster' in another 6 months? 

Wat are we saying now? 

Is CoVid gg the way of the flu?  

Let's not go overboard in our zeal to get everyone protected. 

Stay the course and keep focussed.

[1:02 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: Gov shld encourage all to take charger of their own personal hygiene. Hand washing ect

[1:13 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: Yeah, would be good if govt can share data on when was the vaccination date for vaccinated individuals who contracted covid. 

For example, if out of 1000 vaccinated individuals who kena, 70% got their shots >6 months ago, 20% 5 months ago, 10% 4 months ago and none within 3 months of being vaccinated, this might show that covid immunity wanes over time and reinforce the need for booster shots. 

However, if data shows that even those who were recently vaccinated are also contracting covid, then I would question the need for booster shots. (Unless of course it's about mixing vaccines to offer a different type of immunity)

[1:13 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: Two cents worth 🙏🏻

[1:26 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: While the current outbreak is a setback, i hope MOH will not waste the opportunity to do a detailed study to understand CV19 better. 

This is an opportunity to collate data on:

- Vaccine efficacy/lifespan

- Any evidence of vaccine effectiveness in preventing long covid

- Immunity post infection for recovered patients who were previously vaccinated

- Potential implications of “super-immunity” or “hybrid immunity”

[1:28 pm, 27/09/2021] +REACH: 160,000 eligible Singaporeans to receive $100 worth of grocery vouchers

About 160,000 eligible Singaporeans will receive $100 worth of grocery vouchers next month to support them with their household expenses amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

More: https://str.sg/3TdN

[1:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +REACH: Wage support for aviation sector to be extended to March 2022

Employers in the aviation sector will get six more months of wage support for their workers to help them tide over the continuing Covid-19 pandemic.

More: https://str.sg/3Td6

[1:45 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What is the goal right now? We were told that vaccination was the key to opening up.  We did that and we are now back to earlier restrictions.

[1:45 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: +1

[1:45 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Where is the evidence that these restrictions are achieving the goal ( whatever that is?)

[1:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: For MOH to ramp up their operations and elderly to get their booster shots

[1:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: And also which vaccination.

[1:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: I mean what is the purpose? Eg No one in hospital. Under 10 cars a day?

[1:47 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: The elderly didn't all get their 1st shot. How many need a booster to allow us open up?

[1:47 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: So that MOH can handle these large cases lor

[1:47 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Where is the evidence a booster is needed for everyone

[1:47 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What is the actual goal? How do your define ' handle' large cases

[1:48 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: I dun think getting booster shots is the way to go. 

Like I said, after 6 months,  wat next? Not another booster shot,  pls! 

That is just buying time.  Not a solution.

[1:48 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How are other countries dealing with 30,000 cases a day?

[1:48 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

[1:48 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: I find a study that has data about covid and children.

[1:49 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: I don't want my kid to get covid, but I also see that his childhood is being seriouly compromised unnecessarily

[1:49 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: I hate to say this,  

But looks like little choice liao.... 

Shd continue to focus on getting the un-vaccinated Vaccinated...  😳

I dun see nor hear tt call tt strongly  any more of late.

[1:51 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How is that the countries in Europe are coping with no restrictions other than wearing masks indoor?

[1:51 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Numbers are falling.

[1:51 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: If people's choice is for the non-mRna vaccine,  so be it... 

Bring more of it in, (and fast),  so tt the remaining 18% can go get themselves vax...

[1:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What is the condition of people that are overwhelming our hospitals?

[1:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: Can speed up the delivery of Novavax? 

End Nov seems too long now.

[1:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We have 30 people in ICU in a population of 5 5million. How many can we manage?

[1:53 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We have 172 seriously ill people in a population of 5 5 million.  What can we cope with?

[1:53 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Anyone know?

[1:53 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How many children are seriously ill from covid?

[1:54 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: The A&Es are full I think.

[1:54 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: 6 in 1 million are on ICU  seems like a really low number

[1:55 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: GPs and polyclinics too

[1:55 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes,  but why? If people are not seriously ill

[1:55 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Is the plan not to stay home,  like in other countries.?

[1:55 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: And Gov want to QO all the close contact ect.  And do contact tracing

[1:56 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Why not setup facilities at expo again so people can go and rest there?

[1:56 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: Think empty hotels will be staring at Expo.

[1:57 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ken Loh: They removed the QO number from MOH website is it? Cannot find anymore

[1:57 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: Think they can't count already

[1:57 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Maybe we are being too cautious? I worry we are sitting down businesses and killing our economy for a tiny number of cases. 35 in a million people are seriously ill,  and our country cannot cope?

[1:58 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Why are we allowing people to go to a&e when they test positive?

[1:58 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: That isn't the right place for them

[1:58 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Is not an emergency and there was no accident.

[1:59 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What steps are being taken to open up properly,  protect our business our jobs our society?

[1:59 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Why is our only measure to reintroduce restrictions?

[2:00 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What is the point of track and trace right now? It is just focused on issuing QO and sending people to A&E. Perhaps,  now that we are vaccinated,, people are not getting seriously ill so we can take a new approach?

[2:01 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How much of the reserves are we willing to spend on maintaining this strategy?

[2:01 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What is the cost to our mental health?

[2:02 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How do we present ourselves as a competent forward thinking country when we only seem to have 1 strategy,  which is to restrict movement and interaction?

[2:03 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Why use up QO Hotel rooms for people who test negative when we have a shortage of space for those who test positive?

[2:04 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: So many questions.  Are there are answers I wonder?

[2:05 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: HBL ends at 9.50. What do our kids do all day now? How can we be productive WFH with our kids at home needing attention?

[2:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +Angelica: I don’t agree with this continuous cycle of tightening and relaxing restrictions even with the increase in COVID cases. As 95%+ are all asymptomatic or just slightly unwell. And only very few are severely ill or needing hospitalisation. 

The government keeps saying stand down for ‘X weeks’ so it can get better. But it’s not getting better. When cases go down, people and businesses suffer. Technically the government is also losing money since they are pumping more to support people but I think it’s still not enough to support like pre COVID times. 

Wonder what’s the end goal? 

Also the estimation that all seniors unvaccinated falling severely ill due to COVID and thus overwhelming hospital capacity seems does not seem realistic and overly precautious. 

Also we are standing down so the remaining folks can get vaccinated? What’s next, until everyone gets their booster shot? It seems never ending. 

I think people will suffer more from the restrictions first than covid if this continues.

[2:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/explainer-where-singapore-stands-its-fight-against-covid-19-and-why-mindset-shift-needed

[2:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Beyond government policies, however, infectious diseases experts say that there is a need for a mindset shift with regard to Covid-19, and a change in the messaging about how deadly the disease is.

There should also be more personal responsibility, and one way the population can exercise that is to self-isolate and monitor one’s conditions at home, instead of seeing the hospital as the first port of call

[2:10 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes.  And next I assume we'll be waiting for the kids to get vaccinated,  which will be what March? 98% are asymptomatic, or v mild.

[2:13 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: "Admission into hospital for Covid-19 is more of a cultural expectation, but not a standard of care that is required for the patient, he added." This is where Gov needs to step in and stop the flood of people, not by restricting movement but by turning those away, or seeing up covid centres away from hospitals.

[2:14 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-19-is-far-more-lethal-damaging-than-flu-data-shows

The death rate among COVID-19 patients was 18.5%, while it was 5.3% for those with the flu

[2:15 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: The two deaths on Saturday were elderly unvaccinated people with health conditions.  Why is the country being shut down because of this? We cannot stop al people dying and we are not enforcing vaccinations.

[2:15 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: So if SG is 2% for COVID. then should treat COVID like flu?

[2:17 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: This is not applicable in SG. They were unvaccinated and all US based.  The death rate here is 78 out of 70,000 and that number is 0.1% which includes pre vaccination

[2:19 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Health in US has high rates of diabetes over weight,  great conditions etc.

[2:19 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Many more underlying health conditions in the US.

[2:20 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: FRIDAY, Dec. 18, 2020

[2:20 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: That article is way out of date

[2:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +RH: https://www.mewatch.sg/watch/Talking-Point-2021-2022-E21-Thu-23-Sep-2021-Is-It-Worth-Vacationing-During-A-Pandemic-245347

[2:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: So it is a lower death rate for COVID compare with flu?

[2:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: Or COVID need more medical care like oxygen supply?

[2:30 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: they are NOT

[2:33 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: There are many reports/studies done globally to measure the antibodies in vaccinated people of different age groups after varying periods/time. Just google .. copy and past your question into google search

[2:34 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: Numbers REPORTED is falling .. probably not testing as well 🤷‍♂️

[2:41 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How do you define "not coping"?

[2:42 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, antibodies drop, but the mRNA vaccine provides the code to create antibodies. So when you become infected your body creates the antibodies. That is why people who are vaccinated are getting ill but soon recover and don't get seriously ill.

[2:42 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: That is why we see hospitalisation and death rates falling  even while cases are going up.

[2:43 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Cases are going up, but hospitalisation and death is going down. So clearly they are still testing

[2:45 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Simple and clear evidence. Cases up, hospiltisation and death is down.

[2:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: And they have no covid restrictions in place. Which is nuts in my opinion.

[2:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: Your data is outdated .. tolong click refresh instead of asking the same question that many here have tried to answer before.

Daily new infection numbers have consistently exceeded 1k .. only 1k cases a day. 1% of these need hospitalisation, 0.1% need oxygen/intensive care...

>> 10/day needing hospitalisation

Singapore Hospitals have 11.5k hospital beds, of which more than 80% are already occupied by patients with other ailments

That leaves 2.3k hospiral beds available << this is a very optimistic estimtate by the way.

Simple mathematics will tell you that if we don't do something to slow down the rate of infections, we will run out of hospital beds soon, not to mention the strain on doctors/nurses provided care to the sick.

If we do nothing, the (conservative underestimate) 1k daily new infections can easily become 5k/day .... if you still do not understand the implications .. then really nothing to say liao 😅

[2:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Our policies and Public opinion should be based on data, evidence and facts. Not sentiment.

[2:47 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1 in 2 Singapore residents say they cannot cope financially in event of illness or job loss: Survey 

 http://www.asiaone.com/singapore/1-2-singapore-residents-say-they-cannot-cope-financially-event-illness-or-job-loss-survey?utm_source=mobileapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=native-share

[2:48 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments: Serious and sad

My comments: Yes.

This is another sad part about covid.

It damage health and also damage people livelihood.

That is why front of hand is flesh. Back of hand is also flesh.

Both ways it hurts.

[2:48 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Ok, so we need to look at the recovery rate as well. 10 per day, minus recovery. 2,000 bed at 10 per day equals 200 days, even not including the recovery period.

[2:49 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: Foreign construction workers will obediently do that  ... and probably be happy doing that. You seriously think the average Singaporean/locals/PRs/EP/WP  will agree? 😳

[2:49 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Isn't that why we have government policies?

[2:50 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: ya, many will not want to stay at Expo. Is communion leaving

[2:50 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: If people won't agree then how do we enforce the current restrictions?

[2:50 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: It shouldn't be a choice.

[2:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Are we cherry picking policy based on what public do or don't want to do? No, we do what is right for the country.

[2:54 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: From 24th to 25th Sept serious illness in hospital went down, despite 1000+ new cases.

[2:56 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Same for 22nd to 23rd. It went up from 23rd to 24th. Overall there is an increase but not close ton10 per day. So on current stats it will be a year before our beds are full. Plenty of time to make provisions.

[2:56 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: These restrictions are clearly unnecessary.

[2:58 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: NOT doing anything about it .. mostly because they don't have the financial means and/or the political will

[3:04 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: OK, so their society and economies are all fine, despite doing nothing about it?

[3:07 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Basically it looks like many countries are 'living with covid' people are going about their business. There are some restrictions in place, and some people are falling ill. What does it mean to Singapore to 'live with covid'?

[3:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: I'm not clear what it means based on the current policies. Public opinion appears quite divided and we don't know what the goal is.

[3:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We were told to get vaccinated so we could open up. We did that. We opened up.

[3:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We were told to stop being so obsessed with daily cases. But now everyone talks about daily cases.

[3:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We are not looking at serious illness or death. We are focused on going to hospital even if we are not very ill.

[3:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: QO are being issued for anyone in contact with covid, which is overrunning our facilities.

[3:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Is that an accurate assessment?

[3:10 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Sorry for posting so much; I was playing catch up!

[3:13 pm, 27/09/2021] +Jospeh Ong: What your attached charts show is this:

- Negative correlation (and likely causation) between vaccination rate and infection

- Negative correlation (and likely causation) between restrictions/lockdowns rate and infection

>> See the falling numbers from Jan peak coinciding with vaccination  program - which started in late 2020; and movement restrictions/lockdowns

See https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/charts/uk-government-coronavirus-lockdowns

- Numbers rising again form mid-2021 coinciding with emergence of Delta variant

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

Lastly... looking at the post-Delta variant emergence period - high vaccination rate, looser restrictions, population fatigue - the proportion (or ratio, %) of new infections : hospitalisations : deaths have been stable ... which suggests that we can project/forecast with a high confidence level, the % of people who will need hospitalisation and/or will die. It clearly explains why we have to keep an eye on the daily infection numbers because a % of those will likely need hospitalisation and/or will die. Higer infection rate >> more hospital beds needed >> medical services more stretched

[3:35 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: I see cases went up when restrictions ended. I see despite greatly increased cases the hospitalisation went up marginally. Despite greatly increased cases death increased marginally.

[3:38 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Therefore cases numbers alone are not a measure of seriousness. People who are infected are no longer seriously ill and do not require hospitisation. The Gov is telling us that and they are correct.

[3:38 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Therefore policy should adapt to this new approach

[3:39 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: People should not be at A&E unless seriously ill

[3:39 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We need people to go to dedicated facilities to assess their condition and to stay home unless seriously ill

[3:40 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We shouldn't be shutting down businesses and preventing normal life of 'living with covid'

[4:02 pm, 27/09/2021] +Smiley face: Unrealistic for Covid-19 curbs to go on indefinitely, say two-thirds of S'poreans in survey

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/unrealistic-for-covid-19-curbs-to-go-on-indefinitely-say-two-thirds-of-sporeans-in

[4:03 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: hahah singaporeans ...

[4:03 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: ok den ask them if health system break down

[4:03 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We just need a purpose. And actual goal. Like we had for vaccinations, remember that?

[4:03 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: more in the society gets hits including their kids

[4:04 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: can they just shut their mouth and move one and embrace the situation?

[4:05 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: o yesh after all worst case is 12 mths later covid will be a normal flu pifzer and mordena says so ... so whats there to worry right

[4:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: 👍 +1

[4:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: till date is all abt govt govt .. what about the public

[4:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: have we did our part ?

[4:07 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: 👎 -1

[4:07 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: all these while the approach needs 2 hands to clap

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Ask them if all business go bust. Where are we then?

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: govt and society, ask ourselves have we been doin gour part

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: when ur gelth syste breaks down and not able to support ur society is handicapp too

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: health sorry

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Why should they do that? Equally they could say the same about people who want restrictions increased to move on. Not a helpful approach!

[4:08 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: +1

[4:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: certain conversation here is soo one sided

[4:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Mental health goes bust also will take up healthcare capacity. Only difference is we don't measure it.

[4:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: when in any system there is a pull and push

[4:10 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: till the day society understand the bigger part to be played is by themselves going forth for any nation wide situation we could end up the same again

[4:10 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: +1

[4:13 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: We shouldn't look at covid like it's the only issue we are facing. That's very narrow minded and superficial. The situation MTF is facing isn't so simple as 1+1 = 2, lockdown = win.

[4:15 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: These policies have systemic impact - e.g. less people r going for cancer screening cos of covid restrictions. More late stage cancer diagnosis r expected bcos of this.

[4:15 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Mental health. Economy. Jobs. How our trading partners see us. Foreign talents. Etc.

[4:17 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Yes if everyone do our part, covid can b under control. For how long? And how realistic is it to ask everyone to do their part? How many people's mind have you changed so far? How many will listen?

[4:19 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Doing our part means taking sensible precautions. Mask. Wash Hands. Stay Home when feeling ill. Get tested. Get vaccinated. All good actions the public can do. That is working in countries of high vaccination rate.

[4:20 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We must not keep sacrificing our business. Our kids' childhood. Time with friends and families and our health over an unwarranted fear of the virus.

[4:20 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: +1000

[4:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: so what both are indicating is our govt made a stupid decision to close up again ?

[4:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: driving up daily cases much more quickly than we expected, before our ramp-up plans were fully implemented and before our support systems are fully in place," Mr Ong said https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid19-delta-variant-surge-cases-ncid-director-leo-yee-sin-2204181

[4:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Shutting and doors and our borders is like shutting our minds and ignoring the facts and realities. We are in a pandemic yes. We have a very good solution. It is working. We cannot eradicate every case, prevent every death and illness. We can reduce them to almost zero (0.1%) and still open our country. Evidence shows this.

[4:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry not even close

[4:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: I think an issue is that if we have no clarity, we might just end up having "covid fatigue" and not doing all the things we should be doing

[4:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is to put singapore under restricted movement?

[4:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is as if the brains up there have no brains to see the waterfall effect of every closure (x1) and restricted movement phase put in place (x multiple times)

[4:25 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: think they did weight the camps from both sides and rather not risk having the health system break down (like in other countries

[4:25 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 1 - Assessing our current situation

1. Context :-

a. Economy needs to open up. Business need to open up. Jobs need to be safeguarded and created ----- so as to secure the livelihood for our People, our Business and our Nation.

b. As at 26 Sep 2021 :-

- Serious cases = 202

- Oxygen support = 172

- ICU = 30

- Death to date = 78 (5 fully vaccinated) (76 elderly - over 60 years old).

- Hospital = 1,203 (1,600 beds reserve for covid patients - current).

- Doctors = 5,881 (Specialists), 5,641 (GPs)

c. Unvaccinated :-

- Adults = 257,000 (including 80,000 elderly)

- Young children below 12 years old = 570,000 (estimated - 10% of the total population)

- Estimated :- 82% fully vaccinated, 85% 1st jab, ---- 15% unvaccinated (about 827,000 - unvaccinated).

------

[4:25 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 2 - How did we cope with the latest Delta wave

1. As per the AI predictive simulation model and the current statistics and real life situation in Singapore context (as well as overseas Countries) --- 85% vaccination cannot cope with the Delta variants - and large outbreak do occur the moment we open up our Economy.

 

2. Large outbreak will occur - the moment we open our Economy with 85% vaccination --- as R0 = 5 - 9 (Based on US and UK study) and Rt  > 1.5.

This Reproduction figures is equivalent to chickenpox pandemic and exceed smallpox transmission --- wheeby 85% vaccination will not be sufficient to cope with the Delta variants outbreak.

3. As the mRNA vaccines is not 100% effective, 95% for original covid and drop to about 66% for Delta variants --- large breakthrough in transmission occur - as model by the simulation model as well as real life scenarios that happen in Singapore and overseas Countries - even among the vaccinated.

4. Vaccinated despite the breakthrough - are still the best form of protection in terms of serious illness, oxygen support, ICU and death - as opposed to unvaccinated and partially vaccinated. This is reflected in Singapore and overseas hospitalisation situation as illustrated in Part 1 - Singapore.

5. The current vaccination strategy, theraputics treatment and safe distancing measures --- are not perfect ----- and hence watching how the current Delta wave overwhelming our hospital resources, and straining our medical staff ---- is very important ---- as it will cripple our healthcare system if we fail to do so.

6. Hospital resources have been under stress, even though now we manage to stretch and cope. But if this go on further - our healthcare system will collapse ---- as many patients of other illness have been postpone and move to other healthcare facilities.

Other Countries like UK - has already see many death not from covid - but due to lack of treatment - as hospital resources are taken up by covid patients.

Source :-

https://sg.yahoo.com/news/analysis-thousands-more-usual-dying-170117933.html                      Thousands more people than usual are dying ... but it’s not from Covid. As people has no access to hospital services, patients of other illness die from lack of medical treatment in UK.

7. Hence we will have to tackle a few areas - if we want to really live with the virus and operate in endemic mode.

-----

[4:26 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: further more given the hit rate was at major human foot prints interchanges (like our airport) the approach liek they say is to buy time to ramp up the facilities (make sense) and to control the spread again.....

[4:26 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: nobody likes closed up neither restricted

[4:27 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: but if we cannot control an outbreak with numbers sky rocketing how can the society live with the virus .... soon all will come to a breakneck halt which is worst not for one sector but as a whole ....

[4:28 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: is only a national virus and we already start killing each other mental right, business rights, this and that look from a national level if the nation can pull this off is good for everyone

[4:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: if danny AI stats is true

[4:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: till we learnt how to control such mass outbreak and put in place measures we will never get out of this dog chasing tail cycle

[4:31 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ah Heng: do note also we need to be in tandem with global recovery also if for some reason 80% of the world starts downtrend ... what good si it for us to open up instead we should play conservative to prevent being on the same bandwagon,

[4:36 pm, 27/09/2021] +REACH: Supermarkets say they are 'well-stocked' in wake of Pasir Panjang Wholesale Centre closure

Supermarket operators here are assuring customers that there are sufficient stocks of fruits and vegetables in-store, and reminding them to only purchase what they need.

More: https://str.sg/3Tdt

[4:43 pm, 27/09/2021] +Rama: True but there's no tried and tested alternative! Basic safe distancing, wearing of mask and using hand sanitizer is not heeded most of the times! Vaccination is debatable for some which adds to the headache!

[4:45 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Part 3 - Areas of Improvement - to mitigate the covid breakthrough and live with virus in endemic

1. Preventing or greatly reduce covid transmission.

- Explore nasal spray vaccine - as covid blocker to prevent transmission

- Or other solutions that can prevent covid transmission.

2. Vaccinate the remaining unvaccinated - 5% adults and elderly, 10% children below 12 years old (Pfizer has send all data about the children trial to US FDA, early Oct 2021 should have grant emergency approval).

Source :- https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-talks-over-full-license-covid-19-vaccine-singapore-2021-09-24/

Pfizer in talks over full license for COVID-19 vaccine in Singapore.

Full license is a prelude to compulsory vaccination.

Only when 100% vaccination is achieve like smallpox, measles, TB, polio, diptheria, mumps etc for covid --- and we truly live in endemic.

3. Booster 3rd shot for above 60 years old have shown to be beneficial - and can prevent breakthrough cases leading to death, ICU, oxygen - as the 5 vaccinated death are > 60 years old with co-morbities illness.

4. Keep abreast of theuraptics treatment - eg. monoclonal anti-bodies cocktail treatment that have been effective in treating covid patient.

5. Unless we can do all of Part 3 --- we have to be mentally prepare ourselves from periodic lockdown --- because the moment we reopen for endemic without addressing all of Part 3 --- we will experience the same situation that we are going through currently :-

- Spike in infection number

- Spike in hospitalisation, serious cases or death

- Crippling our healthcare system - and deprive other patients from getting treatment.

This is the Hard Truth --- based on math and science.

=====

[4:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Smiley face: S'poreans socialising and dining out less, mental well-being has declined: Covid-19 survey

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/sporeans-socialising-and-dining-out-less-mental-well-being-has-declined-covid-19

[4:50 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How is it that other highly vaccinated countries have opened up and not experiencing major problems? Isn't that the alternative available? We are more vaccinated and better equipped than these other countries so why are we being more cautious?

[4:53 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore population density is very compact. One of the highest density in the world.

Not a big land space.

One trigger, it spread like wildfire in proximity.

[5:03 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: OK, so the debate is between the seriousness of daily cases. If we have decided 5 serious illness a day (based on some restrictions) is too much, and we want to reduce to 2 serious cases a day (tighter restrictions) then someone needs to make that case and tell us the plan to open up and keep cases down to 2. Otherwise we are in an endless situation of tightened restrictions. We have to understand the cost of reducing serious cases from 5 to 2 per day.

[5:04 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: If Singapore is so vulnerable we cannot cope with 5 serious cases a day then we might not be taken seriously as a modern stable reliable country worth investing in.

[5:05 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Please remember - whilst every death is regrettable they are very rare and predominantly unvaccinated people with health conditions. Many more die of cancer and other diseases than Covid. We cannot defy nature.

[5:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: That is why I ask, what is required and expected for us to open up properly, with personal responsibility (mask, wash hands etc) being the prevention of Covid spread rather than mandate isolation?

[5:09 pm, 27/09/2021] +Boon: 👍+1

[5:22 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Bear in mind that covid lead to multi organs inflammation - heart, lungs, brain, blood clot etc.

These complications plus the elderly existing illness eg. Cancer, heart disease etc --- will require many doctors specialists attention.

This overwhelm our precious specialist resources and tremendous strain to our healthcare system.

It is an issue that is larger than the number of hospital beds.

[5:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We are not seeing that in vaccinated people though. You are correct that a lot of bad things can happen with covid. However we need to take a sensible view and not panic due to irrational fear.

[5:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Perspective is important.

[5:25 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence 100% vaccination is crucial.

[5:25 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: I'm unclear why we are looking at worst case hypothetical scenarios rather than looking at other well vaccinated countries who have opened up and have actual data we can rely on.

[5:26 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Crucial for what? Why 100%? 98% will die?

[5:26 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Yes higher vax rates of cos better. But what if that's not possible?

[5:27 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Or u force those who have adverse reactions to take vax? They die how? U pay their family?

[5:27 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Equally - we know that vaccination doesn't prevent 100% of death rates. What is Singapore's target in order to open up properly?

[5:28 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: 100% was never e target and no other country, no expert would say thats "'crucial"

[5:28 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: It's good to have.

[5:28 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Then live with this periodic lockdown.

[5:28 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How many serious cases per day? What % death rate in which age groups? Are they really looking for 0% in elderly unvaccinated people? and over what period? If someone dies in 3 months time, do we close up again?

[5:28 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: One track mind Danny

[5:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Only one solution to your problem

[5:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: One key to every door

[5:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Well done.

[5:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Whilst I agree with 100% Vaccination being a goal, it cannot be what we rely on in order to open up.

[5:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: It is just one piece of the solution

[5:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: And we cannot have have every piece in place to open up.

[5:30 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: I don't think this is achieveable too....

[5:30 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We do our best, we make sensible fact based decisions.

[5:31 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/vaccines-we-forgot-how-bad-diseases-are-doctor-explains-184854328.html

Vaccines: 'We forgot how bad these diseases are,' doctor explains.

[5:31 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

100% vaccination in past pandemics.

[5:32 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That curb smallpox measles mumps rubella diphtheria polio etc.

[5:33 pm, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: +1

[5:33 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Dude.. no one is anti vax here

[5:34 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: I feel that right now it's an emergency vaccine, we shouldn't mandate it. In a few years once we have better data on the potential side effects (aka long covid) then we might potentially make it mandatory

[5:35 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: Right now, I Feel that engagement and persuasion is the way to go. 

Our current Vacfination rate is already very impressive. Once we expand to the last group of children, and also target the unvaccinated seniors, I think we would have done a good job in this regard

[5:36 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Long covid isnt caused by vax tho. I think u mean long term or serious side effects of vax.

[5:36 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

I feel uncomfortable with the exponential rise in covid cases although I have shared earlier that we should not be alarmed having seen the experience of other countries.

But what I feel even more uncomfortable is the divide amongst fellow singaporeans and constituents on what gov should, should have, should not and should not have done. No country has won the war yet.

Rather, I think we should let gov decide on macro issues and have confidence in them. Macro issues like Singapore's competitiveness, economic considerations, healthcare capacity etc.

For us individuals, I'd like to be in control of assessing my own risks and concerns and for people who are close to me such as family members.

But how?

Each of us know our own risk profile eg, age group, health issues, staying with elderly? Have young children who are not eligible for vaccination etc.

Can gov help to up the Trace Together game to make this into a personal radar for us to avoid danger spots?

Close contacts of infected persons must be updated as having highest transmission order. The close contacts of these contacts will be updated as second highest transmission order so on and so forth.

So if I'm travelling on a train or eating at a foodcourt, I can turn on my TT dashboard and watch around me, how many second transmission order , third transmission order persons are around and try to move away.

TT will not give away the personal info but at least let  the user know around him whether he is too close for comfort knowing such info. We will be more empowered to either carry on with our activities or scale back with considerations of our own risk profile. 

This I think is doable but require more thinking on how to update our status real time and without compromising our our privacy.

[5:36 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: Oops sorry yes long covid is the wrong word, but ya you get what I mean haha

[5:37 pm, 27/09/2021] +Adrian: Sorry sorry Salah 😅

[5:37 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: 🙂👍

[5:54 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: https://www.instagram.com/p/CUOUpzrhnKF/?utm_medium=copy_link

[5:54 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Newborn baby kena covid 😱

[5:55 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: I think the virus has spun out of control. Ytd 1.7k. Today maybe 2k.

[5:56 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yesterday 1939.

[5:59 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Pfizer in talks over full license for COVID-19 vaccine in Singapore.

Full license is a prelude to compulsory vaccination.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-talks-over-full-license-covid-19-vaccine-singapore-2021-09-24/

[6:00 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

We are getting closer.

[6:00 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Correct! Already out of control...so why tighten measures? Since already out of control? Might as well reopen.

[6:01 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: What is considered under control? What number of illnesses and cases is the target to open up properly?

[6:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: Actually MOH should just stop contact tracing and stop including asymptomatic cases in e case count. Then we will think that it is "under control"...

[6:06 pm, 27/09/2021] +John Cheong: 🤦‍♂️

[6:11 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Already their figures are trying to be less transparent. In fact to minimize ppl movement, they should retain the places where covid cases have went.

[6:11 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: Basically they are not sick. Agree.

[6:11 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: But they are still spreaders.

[6:14 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Not likely very much if vaccinated. And if people follow wash hands, wear masks protocol then spread is massively reduced as well.

[6:15 pm, 27/09/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

R0 = 5 to 9.

That's one infected person can infect up to 9 person in close contact.

If nothing is done, by a month time, the whole population will be infected.

Close to 1 million people not yet vaccinated.

The whole healthcare system collapse.

[6:15 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: But children are not eligible for vac.

[6:16 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: Newborn in NICU because they caught it.

[6:16 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: The figures nvr really segregate the young ones.

[6:17 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, and they also tell us: 98.0% have mild or no symptoms. They could also tell us "xx number have recovered today".

[6:17 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: "R0 = 5 to 9" what does this mean?

[6:17 pm, 27/09/2021] +Caleb: now if vax, 10 days later u can be discharge. they assume u not spreading

[6:18 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: If this is so bad, why is it that countries with no restrictions in place are functioning normally?

[6:18 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Correct. and also not getting ill from it, right?

[6:19 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: OK, so daily discharge numbers would be helpful too.

[6:19 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: Yeah only the elders are the vulnerable people. People under 50 recovered very soon or showed no symptoms at at all.

[6:20 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107434/victims-coronavirus-age-france/

[6:20 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: For example

[6:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19/latestinsights

[6:22 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: 90% of UK has antibodies.

[6:23 pm, 27/09/2021] +Elena Woo: They are hospitalised and having dependency on oxygen. Not in ICU does not mean not get ill lo.

[6:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: How many children are in ICU?

[6:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: When you read the daily report, unvaccinated 93 old man and so on, we must accept that he is already very old and have other critical illnesses. COVID-19 is just a trigger, even flu may cost his life or accidentally falls down.

[6:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: how many Children dependent on oxygen?

[6:24 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, correct

[6:26 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: No kids at all required oxygen or at ICU

[6:27 pm, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes so far every Day i am Reading this chart...

So i felt bit relaxed..🤞🏽

[6:27 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: UK Death rate by Age (since day 1)

[6:29 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: So in all the pandemic, despite infection rates spiking etc. Kids were at school. No vaccinations. There is not and had not been 1 kid seriously ill from Covid  in Singapore.

[6:30 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: This is what I mean about perspective. Looking at hypothetical worst case scenarios and scaring us about our kids being at risk, is unhelpful. None of that has been seen in reality after 20 months and several occassions of 'out of control' transmission.

[6:31 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Look at the relationship between infection, illness and death by age:

[6:32 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: Business as usual should be fine. Families with elders take special cautions themselves. Hospitals and nursing homes have to be cautious too.

[6:33 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: You see our schools almost open daily and still very few kid got infected from schools. Most from family members.

[6:33 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Bear in mind those stats are from UK. No social distancing in place. No masks etc etc. Very poor policy in my view, and not surprising infection is high. I don't think this is right for Singapore, but I do think we are going too far on our restrictions.

[6:35 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes, personal responsibility is correct at this point. Some basic government mandates about masks and some social distancing measures seems appropriate.

[6:36 pm, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Majority countries Are actually Trying for Herd immunity after certain percentage of Vaccination has been completed.

This is what i am understanding.

If we want to do the same.. first thing is 

STOP Testing Asymptomatic patients.

And Focus resources on People with Symptoms and people having chronic illnesses.

No point Now to Mention Where actually major cases are from, map data or Any other information.

Only thing is Making sure elderly to reduce Outings from home

If people visiting them should make sure they get ART test and if Ok then visit elderly.

This is the approach we should take.

Yday In a Fb group so many complaining about latest restrictions. I felt these group are behaving too much and feeling like its a lock down

No its not a lock down!

Many coma…

[6:38 pm, 27/09/2021] +An fan: Yeah masks and social distancing continues.

[6:43 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Some good points here. Why are we seeing big spike in elderly infections? If vulnerable please stay home, avoid those who might be in contact with Covid. Seems sensible. Yes, maybe stop testing those Asymptomatic. If someone falls ill, get tested. It's not a lock down, but it is severely restricting lives, and crippling business. There is no evidence we will be overrun at hospitals in two weeks if we follow the above. People who are not ill do not need to be in hospital.

[6:44 pm, 27/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:45 pm, 27/09/2021] +Kevin: Good night Megan

[6:46 pm, 27/09/2021] +Phyllis: Nights Megan!

[6:48 pm, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: We are not sure

Exp

In everyday Oxygen/ICU cases 

How many actually got infection 2 weeks before 

Or After some time?

We don't know 

Everyday i am reading 100 plus elederly. (Some people saying that these group will die anyway .) But is Pathetic thought to say that.. if they are sick Govt has responsiblity to Make sure they give treatment to this group 

So avg everyday 100 plus elderly infected.

In that 20 people End up in ICU.. how many days it will take to Full occupy ICU ?!(i told Minimum avg cases.. there will be many more actually!!)

As a developed Country we can not simply ignore this group.

[6:49 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Thanks Megan!

[6:50 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Yes they are not being ignored! 20 people are not ending up in ICU each day, don't worry. Do you agree they should exercise personal responsibilty, or rely on Gov to mandate restrictions on the whole country?

[6:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: We have just 172 in ICU across country, so nothing like 20 added each day. Pandemic has been with us for 600+ days, I lose count.

[6:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Personal care Is a must and every one must follow that

[6:52 pm, 27/09/2021] +Ben: Agreed! Good night :)

[6:53 pm, 27/09/2021] +Suma pamu: Good night👍🏽

[7:00 pm, 27/09/2021] +Smiley face: 27 September, 2021 

To: Distinguished MTF, DMS And All Honorable Members 

"The Productivity, Activities And The Correlations of Public Safety And Private Space" 

Almost certain that these ups and downs waves of infection and disruption of all sorts will affect many countries leading into 2022. Tomorrow comes, how are we going to recreate, live, work and be mindful in balancing the public health concerns and privately at homes? 

Risks Stratification:

Our data shown that based on risk stratification on age group, our seniors are the highest vulnerable group in this present wave of concern. If this is so, perhaps the medical infrastructures will have to PRIORTISE and skew to this group from IMMEDIATE isolation, observation and telemedic: In high gearing to Secure & Stabilise our Seniors once MOH identify such cases through self test or at all clinics at day 1. 

One step ahead, should a family is experiencing C-19 infection and this family has one or more seniors, then the PRE-ALERT medical alarm will be activated for this family. Having a guildline on the scale of 1 to 3, three being the RED alert and one being under observation; the potential risks and seniors whenever a call for help is signal to MOH 24/7 hotline or referal by polyclinics and private clinics at large. 

Four Pillars of Counter-Actions:

Identify >>  Prioritise >> Secure >> Stabilise 

New Ways:

It is an ongoing competition between Covid and Human. In simple tones, the physical, behaviors and social sciences of four sweet spots that are obvious to many but it is critical that we seek a consensus to draft a SOP to optimise economics productivity and permissable social activities.  

Overcrowding

Hygiene

Exposures

Timing

Curb Overcrowding:

The 1 metre Distancing is a measurement of safety and curb overcrowding. 

Pupils not sitting for national exams or have completed these year end exams exams at various levels should be put on HBL for the rest of the school year. 

Starting today, working adults should be encouraged to 50/50 WFH capacity on rotational rooster for the next 8 weeks or extended if necessary. 

Public Hygiene:

Continuous mass media to create awareness towards a social habit of public and private hygiene. A simple set of hygiene to be observed other than wearing masks and washing hands. 

Limiting Exposures:

Public places of entertainment, recreational or relaxation should have an unified time based guidelines to reduce overuse of these venues/entities, this instance is to reduce human to human exposures and potential cross contamination of diseases, the present primary concern is C-19. Ones immunity is vital in fighting against C-19.

Calibrated Timing:

All economics productivities and social activities will have to adjust, adapt and restraint in this early days of endemic. There are limited choices to otherwise openly and daringly ignore the risk of Reinfection, dislocation and continuous waves of surging cases in thousands on a daily basis. 

Equipments and Medicines:

What's the total Spares medical hardwares in three categories namely general, oxygen-equip, CCU & ICU? As a contingent of softwares, the medical staffs from helps to medical specialists, what's the absolute headcount and the ratio of patients to each of these categorised resource, this discussion, both public & private medical resources?

Summary:

Perhaps the combination of sciences, maths and models will predict up to 80% accuracy of the unknown outcomes. In short, there is no correct nor wrong, in simpleton, it is all about HUMAN wellbeing and importantly be overly prepared! 

The daily report of cases and calamities serves as a LEADING indicator and reference of where the pace of infection and stratified risk groups are heading into the following week, it is like a futures indication of things that is coming. This daily report is an important benchmark for policymakers, businesses and societies the present stage of this pandemic prospecting into the longer path of ending this C-19. 

Besides having a leading indicator, the usefulness of having a LAGGING indicator will serve especially well in the key economics activities that are directly or unintendedly affected by this pandemic, this case tracking C-19. 

A balanced and calibrated approach in solving impending challenges and seeking potential opportunities to break out of the present early stage of endemic and drive towards a new normalcy. 

Afterall, millions have called it a RESET of things, this C-19 is a challenge of stamina to persist on and stomach all unintended consequences. The epicity of life and its meaning, risk, that's part of life! 

Afterwords:

"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once... " Julius Caesar (Act 2, Scene 2)

-- William Shakespeare 

"the problem is, we HUMAN are creatures of HABIT with needs to physically INTERACT..." 

-- Ian T

[7:00 pm, 27/09/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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