REACH 143 - Measured immigration to ensure a cohesive society (SK)
25 Sep 2020 (12pm - 8pm)
REACH
[11:29 am, 25/09/2020] +: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! 😊
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REACH
[11:30 am, 25/09/2020] +: 📢 Today's Topic 📢
How can we balance a measured pace of immigration with ensuring Singapore remains a cohesive society?
According to the Government’s annual Population in Brief report released on Thursday (Sep 24), the Singapore’s population declined by 0.3 per cent in the past year to 5.69 million as of June 2020, with a fall in the number of foreigners.
This was mainly due to a reduction in foreign employment in the services sector. In terms of types of passes, the largest drop was for work permit holders. These trends were mainly due to Covid-19 related challenges, brought about by weak demand and travel restrictions, said the report.
The number of citizens grew by 0.6 per cent to reach 3.52 million in June, while the permanent resident (PR) population remained stable at 0.52 million.
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/singapores-total-population-falls-to-569-million-as-covid-19-pandemic-hits-non-resident
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Ken
[11:32 am, 25/09/2020] +: The point to have then study our school and reduce the number of international school. So they can integrate with us more. Kids is the bridge for most parents to talk to each other.
Having close off groups will further isolate and form their own community.
[11:32 am, 25/09/2020] +: Example department should have majority Singapore... rather than all in that department having similar race or citizenship only.
[11:33 am, 25/09/2020] +: So to force interactions and takes years to forge bonds
Alvin
[11:34 am, 25/09/2020] +: For EP holders strictly no DP allowed or LTVP. For PRs and SC yes. This will ensure that EP holders are here strictly for work and if they want to set up roots here with family they will have to be PR or SC.
Berny
[11:34 am, 25/09/2020] +: I dont know when it started, but somehow I feel that Singaporeans are getting xenophobic
Alvin
[11:34 am, 25/09/2020] +: We should continue to issue EP for work.
Ken
[11:35 am, 25/09/2020] +: Yes cause when interest is affected.
Jobs goes to people willing to do the same job with much lower pay
[11:35 am, 25/09/2020] +: Which cause they have families not here
[11:35 am, 25/09/2020] +: They spend lesser
Alvin
[11:36 am, 25/09/2020] +: I think sg ppl are pragmatic lot
[11:36 am, 25/09/2020] +: We know we still need EP, SPass and WP workers
[11:37 am, 25/09/2020] +: I think it’s how these workers behave here that will impact our perceptions
Berny
[11:37 am, 25/09/2020] +: I agree, although there may be some discriminated hiring practices in some company (hiring their own people, be it local or foreigners), generally, from a company point of view, if both candidate can perform the same task in the same time, would you hire the "more expensive" local or the "cheaper" foreigner
Alvin
[11:37 am, 25/09/2020] +: Eg SDA only catch locals and not ang mohs etc
Berny
[11:38 am, 25/09/2020] +: this sentence dangerous leh... ang moh also got tio caught
Alvin
[11:38 am, 25/09/2020] +: Yes I know
[11:38 am, 25/09/2020] +: Before that
[11:38 am, 25/09/2020] +: Hence eg
[11:38 am, 25/09/2020] +: So as long as authorities make amends all is good
Berny
[11:39 am, 25/09/2020] +: before that maybe have la, just that nobody reported
[11:39 am, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
We adopt hard quotas and proportionate balancing of citizens with racial balance and PR as well as non resident foreigners.
So population numbers are always manageable.
Alvin
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: No SDA was sighted in Robertson Quay
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: Even when patrons are flouting rules
Rama
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
Alvin
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: Hence the hoo ha
Ken
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: I was hired over more experience due to my pay is lower... just when the person of different countries the eyes gets bigger
Rama
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
Ken
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: But it is just business
Rama
[11:40 am, 25/09/2020] +: Good point
Berny
[11:41 am, 25/09/2020] +: ☝️ that's true
Rama
[11:41 am, 25/09/2020] +: Yeah
Berny
[11:41 am, 25/09/2020] +: oh LTVP holders dont need to apply for EP or S-pass
[11:41 am, 25/09/2020] +: my wife is a LTVP holder, her headcount is considered "unique"
[11:41 am, 25/09/2020] +: not under foreigner headcount (no levy) or local (no cpf)
Alvin
[11:42 am, 25/09/2020] +: I’m saying foreigner with work passes CANNOT apply LTVP
[11:42 am, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Important is to ensure there are sufficient jobs for the entire population.
Alvin
[11:42 am, 25/09/2020] +: They are not SC or employers
Berny
[11:42 am, 25/09/2020] +: oh, sorry, misinterpret🤭
Alvin
[11:42 am, 25/09/2020] +: Hence they cannot sponsor
[11:43 am, 25/09/2020] +: Ppl not happy when ahem
[11:43 am, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Topics :- Jobs should be created base on economic values - not creating jobs for the sake of employment (with little or no economic values)
1. There are demand to create jobs for elderly and vulnerable groups - which is socially responsible and will help the elderly and vulnerable to stand on their own feet to help themselves to fund their daily living.
2. But jobs created for these group of people must be based on economic market principles - and not create jobs for the sake of employment but of little or no economic benefits.
- Eg. Asking town councils to set aside more jobs for elderly or vulnerables when the work in town councils don't require so many workers --- will be as good as throwing good money away with little economic values.
- Eg. A town council will normally award a tender to a contractor to maintain cleanliness in the housing estate - and assume with the right equipment and tools will only need 10 workers (with salary of $1,500 per month).
- Then it don't make sense to create 1000 jobs for elderly or vulnerables in town council to clean the housing estate. And pay $1,500 per month to 1000 workers.
- Jobs created in this case are not based on economic values and outcomes --- but are just creating jobs for the sake of employment but are not basedd on economic or market needs.
- Residents pay say $70 a month as town council fees to maintain the housing estates - when a contractor of 10 workers @ $1,500 per month each.
- But if town council are forced to create jobs for elderly or vulnerables for 1000 workers -- how much residents need to pay for town council fees? $500 per month for town council fees?
- This is not fair to the residents or to the Government who is a custodian of taxpayer money --- to use money prudently and get the best deal at a cost effective price --- just for the sake of creating jobs not based on economic market principles.
3. Right jobs must be created by the Government, Economy and the Business based on economic market principles -- and then train elderly and vulnerables and put them in the jobs.
4. Jobs that are registered with WSG, e2i, NTUC, social enterpreneurs and other job placement - are jobs created based on economic market principles.
eg. cleaner jobs for mall,
security guards for mall, offices, condo estates etc.
Come across a bank that created "back room" jobs to archive document - for disabled, elderly and vulnerables.
Utensils collection and cleaning at food courts.
Gardening and landscaping jobs in public and private sectors.
F&B that employ elderly, vulnerables, disabled etc.
5. Note:- Singapore is a small nation with no natural resources --- we only have humans who are trained to do value-added jobs and money reserves to help to create wealth for us and tide us over during crisis (like the current covid pandemic) --- we cannot spend and lavish our money reserves mindlessly and carelessly ---- and our future generations will have nothing left - and will live in despair.
6. Very well endowed countries with so many natural resources like oil, rubber, palm oil, durian etc --- also will come a time that their natural resources will be depleted and the whole nation finance come under pressure - if generations of people squander the wealth away with lavish and careless spendings.
7. Singapore all the more must be prudent and invest our money reserves wisely - and not squander it away with careless, mindless or lavish spendings - as if money are falling from the sky.
Alvin
[11:43 am, 25/09/2020] +: Certain groups bring in their entire “village” with these passes
Rama
[11:43 am, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
Berny
[11:44 am, 25/09/2020] +: rephrase:
I thought only a SC or PR can be sponsor of their immediate family member?
[11:45 am, 25/09/2020] +: and then for work pass to apply for ltvp, they need ica and mom approval iirc
[11:45 am, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
CNA
Review on women's issues goes beyond the law, aims to 'deeply ingrain' gender equality in society: Shanmugam
By Chew Hui Min
By Lin Suling
Executive Editor, CNA Commentary
24 Sep 2020 09:00AM (Updated: 24 Sep 2020 09:53AM)
Speaking of his own experience in the legal industry, he said that women were well-represented there, but this was not necessarily the case in other sectors.
The proportion of women on the boards of the top 100 primary-listed companies in Singapore was only 16.2 per cent as of last year.
“I was a lawyer in private practice and in my firm, which was then the largest law firm in Singapore, more than half the partners were women. Three out of the five members of the top policymaking body were women,” he said.
“So, you know you're surrounded by all these highly articulate, talented, very bright women, and you don't go away thinking that women are somehow oppressed.”
But there are some structural issues in Singapore which are “products of (the) socio-cultural system” and have not been dealt with yet, he said. For example, women take up more care-giving responsibilities, and many have to choose between family and career.
These issues cannot be dealt with by the Government alone, he said, noting how in Scandinavian countries, fathers are expected to take time off work to help look after their children.
"It tells you the role that men play is very important in trying to have a changed perspective, and that can't be done by the Government alone ... I think these are all things that need to be looked at."
When asked how far he would go to ensure better representation of women on company boards, as corporate leaders and in Parliament, he said that he does not see quotas as a viable solution.
"Generally, our approach has been to eschew quotas, because quotas are a short route to tokenism, and the women who make it on their own merit, and there are large numbers of them, could also be tarred with the same brush ... there is also that risk,” he said.
When asked for his response to the argument that true equality requires women to do National Service, he laughed and said: “I will ask those people to go and try being a woman. And to get through the lived reality, and … look at the challenges that women go through.”
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[12:13 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Wonder why suddenly the topic of gender equality pop out.
Thought we have treated man and woman equally in our society.
[12:16 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well in parliament, there are many Ministers who are women, there are fair amount of women who are MPs.
[12:17 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
In the workforce, there are fair amount of women in the executive positions.
[12:27 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I am sure if there is a right fit, women will not be pass over.
We have to be mindful that women upon marriage are bearing babies and there will be period when motherhood become predominant.
[12:34 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Depending on individual, if a person display competence, talk sense, display knowledge - who in the right mind will say the women are gullible or ignorant?
This also applies to men.
[12:37 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Don't know.
I don't have the official stats.
Also it doesn't depends on hard figures.
It depends on whether more women want to join politics compare to men.
[12:44 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Construction will see more men because they are stronger and can carry heavy stuff. (Like in NS, woman build and physique is not as strong as men - Minister Shanmugam imply the same. Try to being a woman and understand their challenge)
Nursing, women are more attentive and meticulous and it suit women better.
I don't think this is gender inequality.
It is more like which gender is a better fit.
I don't think we deliberately create such job inequality.
[1:00 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If man is stronger than women which is a scientific fact* - and you say this statement is discriminatory.
Then define in science why man is not stronger than women in bone mass and strength?
[12:50 pm, 21/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I doubt there's any law to discriminate against men or women from entering any professions.
That's why I didn't see any gender discrimination or inequality per se in Singapore.
========
[11:45 am, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: An example of REACH discussion filter into consideration for National Policies.
Whether it is short text or long messages, as long as ideas are good, they can shape government policies.
Thus ideas can be long, can be short or not too long or too short. As long as the ideas are good and can resolve issues.
Alvin
[11:46 am, 25/09/2020] +: DP then for EP holders
Berny
[11:51 am, 25/09/2020] +: wa, but 6k a month is a lot of money
[11:51 am, 25/09/2020] +: Thanks for the info, i learnt something new today
Suma Pamu
[11:54 am, 25/09/2020] +: My 2cents.
As far as I observed Some sectors are Over filled with Foreigners that too from particular races(Nationality)
Also most of those are staying in Some particular areas thus Some estates and someCondos are Dominated by Particular Race& nationalities... This way Very less chance of Integration.
Implementation of Stricter Quotas as by Race also Nationality is needed along with Strict EP Quotas..
Rama
[11:55 am, 25/09/2020] +: Definitely
Alvin
[12:11 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes. That’s what many have observed as well. Well said.
Ken
[12:13 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I do have couple of friend want to convert but can’t.. many do like this place after being here long enough
[12:13 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Specially those with kids
REACH
[12:31 pm, 25/09/2020] +: COVID-19: Singapore, Japan launch 'residence track' for business travellers who are work pass holders
Singapore and Japan launched a "residence track" travel arrangement for business executives and professionals who are work pass holders.
"The residence track will provide for the movement of business executives and business professionals who are work pass holders, with the necessary public health safeguards in place," said Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) in a statement on Friday (Sep 25).
The residence track comes in addition to the business track, also known as "reciprocal green lane", which was launched on Sep 18 and facilitates short-term essential business and official travel between the two countries.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/japan-travel-residence-track-covid-19-13145800
Min
[12:32 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I’m really sad about this.
[12:37 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
When too little jobs chase by too many people - then xenophobic sentiment will arise.
Ken
[12:38 pm, 25/09/2020] +: It’s the same everywhere... no choice meritocracy means compete with everyone
[12:39 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If they're enough jobs - then xenophobic sentiment Will not arise.
CQ
[12:46 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Indeed.... When resources are scarce, one group will say "hang on, I'm the most entitled, I should get priority over the others!" Thus begins "Singaporeans first", "local PMETs first" etc etc etc
[12:47 pm, 25/09/2020] +: It has always been like that, just that now there's social media and the mutterings are being amplified.
REACH
[12:51 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Singapore food manufacturers to get opportunity to list products on FairPrice Marketplace
Local food manufacturers can now apply to list their products on the FairPrice Marketplace platform, under an initiative that will help them improve their visibility in the market and allow them to test the reception to their new items.
The initiative, called YummySG!, was launched by Enterprise Singapore (ESG) and FairPrice Online on Friday (Sep 25).
The initiative "provides Singapore food manufacturers with an additional platform to diversify their revenue streams", said Enterprise Singapore and NTUC FairPrice in a media release.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/fairprice-online-marketplace-yummysg-singapore-food-manufacturer-13145554
[1:00 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Long time back, when you drop a resume into a few blue chips companies, you got call up for interview and even job offers from few companies.
You can choose which one to accept.
Now I heard even you send hundreds of resume, you will be lucky if you get 1 interview and you won't get a job.
This happens in the last few years.
People begin to wonder is it too many foreigners, is it too little jobs, or is it obsolete skillset or obsolete industries.
[1:02 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
So I can understand the change in mood among the population.
Rama
[1:07 pm, 25/09/2020] +: 🤷♀️
[1:07 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
Aida
[1:11 pm, 25/09/2020] +: This I totally agree.
Valli
[1:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: +1
Ken
[1:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: This is very good, hopefully those that afford will able to buy those to support Singapore farmers
Valli
[1:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I totally support this.
Going forward more support should be given to local startups to encourage them
Ken
[1:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: True.. last 2 years I send 50 only 4 got back for interview. 2 offered.
But either I am from different track or cause basic is high. I am not sure.
When I was dip applying for second job I sent out 10 get 10 interview . 20 to 50% increase in pay.
[1:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: 5 offered
[1:22 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: This is the real job seeking scenario share by many people that I have talk to.
I am shock by the sudden drastic deterioration in job seeking in Singapore when our economy are still doing very well.
I thus have been pondering what actually went wrong.
CQ
[1:16 pm, 25/09/2020] +: So when they decide to come here for work, their personal lives are literally put on hold? That's a little harsh....
Ken
[1:17 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Eventually hopefully they can earn enough to compete with overseas farmers
Berny
[1:18 pm, 25/09/2020] +: not very possible, land is scarce here, rental is quite heavy
Rama
[1:20 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Gender equality and what it means for Singapore https://www.todayonline.com/commentary/gender-equality-and-what-it-means-singapore?cid=telegram_tg-single_social-free_26012019_today#.X219_l0SpT8.whatsapp
Ken
[1:20 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Depends on what... shipment is technically not cheap either and those Japanese produce for sure is much more expensive
[1:21 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Hopefully they can drop to profitability and even export eventually. A hope that we have to invest heavily
[1:21 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Taiwan is doing it well.. for some industry. Although land a lot bigger but they produce enough to even export for some
Berny
[1:25 pm, 25/09/2020] +: those are considered a "premium item" that's why the price, having said that, are Singaporeans willing to pay more for their veggies to support the local farmers? or will they stick to the conventional "cheapest option" out there
[1:26 pm, 25/09/2020] +: that's where skillsfuture credit comes in handy
Ken
[1:27 pm, 25/09/2020] +: That the mindset we have to change
[1:27 pm, 25/09/2020] +: If we want local produce to be successful
Berny
[1:27 pm, 25/09/2020] +: the question is, are we willing to do so? I don't really mind since I'm a gardener at home and i know the pain of growing your own veg
Ken
[1:27 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I really don’t mind advocating for them if their products are good
Valli
[1:29 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes this is very true. A foreigner settle here with PR /citizenship, EP or work permit and he start bringing in his relations and this happens in a cycle, where another & another brings in their relations.
This is very common.
Berny
[1:29 pm, 25/09/2020] +: oh, on a side note, if anyone wants to grow veggie at home and felt lost, you can pm me for help 😊 especially if you received the seeds from NParks recently
Ken
[1:25 pm, 25/09/2020] +: The world is improving... hence if we didn’t get better we lose jobs to those country that are improving.
As a country develop the improvement is very incremental. As other countries catch up their pay is much lower jobs slowly will goes to them.
[1:31 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hence r&d is important for Singapore if we want to get ahead of competition and produce products that are wanted by global market.
Ken
[1:32 pm, 25/09/2020] +: R&D takes years and generations... hence only large countries have decent R&D. As knowledge is accumulated over time and money to keep them around long enough for discovery
[1:33 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Hence the tenure system was build to ensure knowledge was not lost if the professors don’t discover anything
[1:33 pm, 25/09/2020] +: And don’t get kick out of the system
[1:33 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore have sizeable amount of r&d - industrial products not commercial ones.
[1:40 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. Autonomous driverless truck in PSA, driverless bus, stealth frigates, drones, satellites, armour vehicles like terrex, warhog, bronco, hunter, self driving arty piece etc.
Eg. Covid-19 test kits, many medical drugs and treatment etc.
[1:45 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: Sensor triggered, video monitor fencing system, advanced combat manpack system etc.
REACH
[1:51 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Singapore’s manufacturing output rebounds in August with 13.7% rise
Singapore’s manufacturing output rebounded in August after contracting for three months, boosted by electronics production and improvement in all but two clusters.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore-manufacturing-output-factory-production-august-rebound-13145988
Eunice Chia
[1:51 pm, 25/09/2020] +: 💪😄
[1:51 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Of course there are r&d in many other sectors that I may not be aware of.
Eg. Financial sector they have fintech, Blockchain, SQ QR code for eWallet, digital banking etc.
[1:55 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Recently hospitals announce our R&d drones, and robots will be used.
Robots serving patients, administer drugs, take temperature, do covid swab etc.
Thermal temperature taking by our R&d robots etc.
I think our R&d culture in Singapore are very rich.
REACH
[1:56 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Stop worrying about being replaced by robots and focus on human strengths: Lawrence Wong
There is no need to worry about robots and machines replacing humans or if people can learn to beat computers.
Instead, the way forward for tomorrow's workers is to double down on human strengths, said Education Minister Lawrence Wong.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/stop-worrying-about-being-replaced-by-robots-and-focus-on-human-strengths
[2:00 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
They are even exported to foreign countries.
[2:04 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. Warhog sold to UK army.
Terrex sold to US army.
Digital fencing system sold to Saudi.
Advanced manpack system sold to Indonesia kopasus elite troop.
Rama
[2:05 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Our defence industry is growing
[2:05 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Still very small pie.
Rama
[2:05 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
[2:07 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I am more concern with the majority of Singaporeans job seekers.
Rama
[2:08 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Likewise
Berny
[2:10 pm, 25/09/2020] +: There are certain sectors where robots cannot replace human, eg. Hospital, or any job that requires the "human touch". Having said that, robots are able to provide some form of automation to speed things up, but the end user must be able to capitalise it to benefit the company. Ultimately... it's still back to square 1, upskilling to remain competitive
Ken
[2:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I am actually working on a few quality checking via image analysis. To reduce like 400 to 1000 man hours of manual checking.
[2:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: And 100% error proof but so far only 98% but better than human might have error
[2:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: And what is check only can know HY checklist
[2:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: By”
Berny
[2:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: This is useful, it can eventually replace most of the worker in the aspect, but we will still need to do random QC or have some standby just in case system breakdown or have some glitch
Ken
[2:13 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes the system is setup by QC personal which is me
[2:13 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I have to come up with all the possible down time and errors in the system
[2:13 pm, 25/09/2020] +: To as much as possible reduce error as much as I can to ensure reliability
Berny
[2:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: but in this context, if a factory worker (as an example) is aware of this change, and is willing to upskill, he/she might be able to retain the job and even get promoted to the QC staff
[2:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: but of course, all these are on "paper discussion", on the ground and actual thing might be different
Ken
[2:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: The system is quite complex not by normal stuff they can teach to operate but not design or change the system
Ben
[2:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes - this is good messaging! Humans will always have more value than Robots in the big picture. People worry about the manual tasks that will be done by Robots and instead should this is as an opportunity for humans to elevate themselves. it will require a concerted effort and lots of support though.
Ken
[2:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I work with the ground to use the system not a paper engineer
Berny
[2:15 pm, 25/09/2020] +: nono, i meant my point, not saying you are paper engineer
[2:15 pm, 25/09/2020] +: i mean the points that i raised are on paper discussion and may sound wonderful or perfect
Ken
[2:15 pm, 25/09/2020] +: These kind of project requires more manpower and not cheap that’s for sure
[2:15 pm, 25/09/2020] +: One project can hire one person to care already
Berny
[2:16 pm, 25/09/2020] +: but the ROI is way better, if company is willing to embrace technology
Ken
[2:16 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Manpower which the company can use for other project to support other site and more similar projects
Berny
[2:16 pm, 25/09/2020] +: don't have to waste time and resources to train a staff, only to have him/she leaving after a year
[2:37 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My friend comments:-
Part 1
In the old school economics 101, Land (& natural resources), Labour and Capital are the 3 factors of production.
When gov talks about population, is gov worrying about Labour as a factor of production. Decrease means consequential stagnation of economy. When layman, talks about population, what comes to mind is competition, crowding, losing out whether the issues stem from foreigners or not. Because the policy boost talent import, and our baby dearth problem, it's very natural to blame it on foreigners.
[2:39 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My friend comments:-
Part 2
The competition from job market didn't start this year. The pandemic made it more obvious to more people and all of a sudden, everyone looks at foreigners as main contributor of job competition.
[2:40 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My friend comments:-
Part 3
Have we noticed, when we walk into day a Chinese bank, all the staff are native Chinese nationals? I wondered. Did they invest but at the same time, bring over their own people, processes and systems?
My friend said, large scale infrastructure projects by China in other countries operate the same way, bring in their machinery (techonlogy), their engineers, workers etc. Complete, collect revenue and handover. I saw a video on how the laying of railroad was automated. How can the local engineers contribute? No idea of how to operate the huge railroad robot, certainly no way to even be a maintenance engineer.
A young graduate who audits Chinese firm could not tell if this firm hires Singaporean. All he met were Chinese nationals.
If this is a model of foreign investment, then it still contributed to economy but create few good jobs.
[2:40 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Part 4
We have to reexamine our education system. It is very effective in producing knowledgeable skilled workers. But they not so at producing competing smartly at workplace. There are many types of soft skills at play.
They are aware that there are doors. But didn't think and realise that there are backdoors and even other doors.
Recent review into the NUS approach to offer more broad based education is certainly welcome but many of the social, communication, negotiation, debating skills have to start very young. Otherwise, all our young will become very frustrated playing workhorses roles reporting to incompetent managers but smart at manipulating them. They burn out and become disillusioned.
Rama
[2:40 pm, 25/09/2020] +: 🤷♀️😔😔
Valli
[2:53 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Agree.
Our education system need to be brainstormed and could start to incalculate skills from an early age probably secondary schools.
[2:55 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Part 5
Large MNCs which use to allow their staff to bid for overseas placement are practicing virtual secondment. Stay where you are (at home) and you now work for xxx country.
To the older worker, cannot lah, very difficult lah. To young graduates, no past baggage, no choice, just try lah. Interestingly, I see hope and resilience in our young. Waking up at wee hours because have to follow overseas office hours. Insecure managers calling and checking on them repeatedly , , learning to conform to foreign cultures virtually etc.
I'm afraid, this may become the norm in the future and there will be few jobs for young Singaporeans because they are unaware that jobs have gone virtual and they lose out without even knowing what and why.
Rama
[2:56 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Agree
Valli
[2:58 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Virtual schooling could become the norm
Ben
[3:02 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes, the labour market will be global. How will taxes be calculated when people can be paid anywhere?
[3:04 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Government got to think how to tax people working from overseas in resident companies.
Valli
[3:04 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Our lives revolves around ‘Virtual’. Virtual Taxing.
Ben
[3:05 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes, Singapore very generously doesn't tax income earned overseas, whereas many countries do.
[3:05 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Part 6
The issue of immigration than to me becomes a short to medium term issue.
If job market virutalised, then foreigners just need to stay in a country that has robust IT infrastructure and with a well-wired home.
Then it bags the question, why people want to migrate to singapore. Jobs are offered virtually from source countries or Singapore?
Should there be more radical and bold imagination that we should have a different class of citizens and PRs. Digital citizens and PRs. We need them to contribute taxes and contribute to jobs in Singapore but they don't need to be here and live here. This will solve our over crowding problem. And for our own young, knowledge and skills not enough. Cannot debate, their hardwork credit went to other people. When comes to retrenchment, cannot articulate value to company. So wasted.
[3:16 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
China must back off, says Taiwan
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/china-must-back-off-says-053622427.html
[3:16 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Taiwan : China's next target? Taiwan news.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4014928
[3:16 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
REACH - Considerations for a F35B aicraft carrier - in lieu of hotbed tension in Taiwan and Guam as well as limited air space
24 Sep 2020 5.48pm
1. Our Taiwan Starlight armour base risk scenario is now becoming higher as China-US-Taiwan geopolitical tension rises - and the frequency and intensity of more dangerous air and sea drill in Taiwan Straits has intensified.
2. If I am not wrong our Airforce is negotiating for an airforce detachment to be base in Guam - 4,700 km away. Guam is strategic and well placed - but unfortunately both China and NKorea are targeting the Guam with nuclear bombers and nuclear missile with simulation and actual launch as Guam has US nuclear bomber detachment - which will cause collateral damage to us - as our detachment also come under the nuclear radar.
3. Also our air space are being squeeze with demand for changes in the FIR (Flight Information Region) under our control.
4. With the above 2 changing scenario that put our overseas base at risk - there is a need to consider a "floating base" that can allow us to navigate away from danger zone and go anywhere we want ---- and hence we should consider building a "nuclear-powered" F35B aircraft carrier.
5. F35B have a short-takeoff capability of 150 meters and vertical landing - which make a small cost effective aircraft carrier suitable for our operational needs.
6. Also a "nuclear-powered" aircraft carrier will virtually dispense with the needs of regular re-fuelling - that allow our carrier to be station outside a land based shore for a long long time.
7. This will ensure our F35B survivability as we have limited land spaces at home and allow diversification and survivability of our airforce military assets - to facilitate a "2nd strike" capability.
8. By having a "floating base" will secure ourselves away from war in hosting countries but at the same time, allow our carrier to participate in joint exercise and build relationship with friendly nations by berthing in ports with friendly nations.
9. Our submarines and frigates can be put into good used to escort our carrier - with anti-air and anti-ships capabilities --- and thus preserving and securing both our air and naval assets --- to allow us to have "2nd strike capability" and overcome our limited land space, sea space and air space at home.
10. We can do a cost-benefit analysis - by comparing the cost of maintaining a small carrier fleet versus leasing cost bases in Taiwan and Guam.
11. We should continue to maintain overseas bases in Australia, US, France etc for training purposes as well as maintaining strategic good relationship with hosting Countries plus preserving and securing our "2nd strike" capability.
12. Note :- We should have a proactive evacuation plan for our armor base in Taiwan Starlight base and Guam (if we already have assets placement there) -- for our personnel and assets station over there - should tension rise to a level that war is imminent.
Please note that to evacuate an armor units need heavy-lift landing ships and needs weeks to extract all our assets and personnel - while if war break out, Mach 1.5 to 2 fighter planes will only needs multiple minutes to hit the base.
=======
Rama
[3:18 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Nice input for thought
REACH
[3:54 pm, 25/09/2020] +: 11 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, including 2 imported infections
Singapore reported 11 new COVID-19 cases as of noon on Friday (Sep 25), the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its preliminary daily update.
There are no community cases based on investigations so far, said the health ministry. It is the fourth day this week that no new community infections were reported.
There are two imported cases and both had been placed on stay-home notice upon their arrival in Singapore.
More updates will be given on Friday night, the ministry said.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-singapore-community-imported-moh-sep-25-13145338
[4:38 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/semakau-landfill-lifespan-materials-other-uses-nea-13145954
R&d to recycle waste into "treasure" and prolong our landfill island.
[5:11 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
US base commander calls Chinese Guam attack video 'propaganda'
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/guam-us-base-commanded-chinese-attack-video-propaganda-13145334
Rama
[5:32 pm, 25/09/2020] +: S'pore should go from being a nation of tech consumers to tech producers : Vivian Balakrishnan http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-should-go-from-being-a-nation-of-tech-consumers-to-tech-producers-vivian?&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany
[5:36 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Brilliant response from our Minister.
[5:39 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hence r&d is important for Singapore if we want to get ahead of competition and produce products that are wanted by global market.
Rama
[5:40 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Agree
[5:47 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore education system can build r&d culture from primary, secondary, JC, poly and university.
R&d can start from young.
Rama
[5:47 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Agree
[5:48 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If we can do so, our education system will break into another new frontier.
Rama
[5:49 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Which will be great
[5:50 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. Every small group of students should invent a product at the end of their school year.
[5:53 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Where we get to a point whereby r&d is an integral part of education.
Education= r&d and vice versa.
Rama
[5:58 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Maybe as a n or o , a level project, even at psle level?
[5:58 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes. Agree.
CQ
[6:03 pm, 25/09/2020] +: we had that back when i was still in school, probably a pilot or something. i absolutely HATED group projects ever since. there are always freeloaders and somehow i always end up being the one person having to collate everyone's work (sent at 10pm the night before an 8am deadline), and inevitably having to re-write the whole thing. please spare the kids... they're already stressed enough
Rama
[6:05 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Oh!
[6:07 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Or add final year poly/uni graduation project!?
CQ
[6:07 pm, 25/09/2020] +: and it was the same cycle all the way until poly. i don't know what was it with my batch, we were always the first batch of something. streaming lah, project lah, problem-based learning lah...
[6:07 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is a common complaint.
But normally those who wrap up the project is the most capable and are talent hunted.
CQ
[6:08 pm, 25/09/2020] +: separate. i kena all the way from primary school to secondary school, (got away with JC), and then multiple module projects in poly. same cycle same pattern every single frigging time
[6:09 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This talents are usually easily spotted by the teachers, professors and boss who are scouting for talents to employ.
CQ
[6:09 pm, 25/09/2020] +: now in uni, STILL THE SAME!!! although now i'm less of a pushover, if people don't pull their weight, i have no qualms pushing and micromanaging them until they cough something up.
[6:10 pm, 25/09/2020] +: nope... usually it's the quietest one and the pushover that kena. so guess who takes credit...... the freeloaders who also happen to be the loudest
Rama
[6:11 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Pioneer
CQ
[6:11 pm, 25/09/2020] +: i would like to claim my Pioneer Generation card please!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Rama
[6:11 pm, 25/09/2020] +7: Nothing beats being the first.
[6:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
[6:12 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Foresight
Suma Pamu
[6:14 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Focusing Majorly on Man power Bussiness in Any country will lead to xenophobic situation
It is about what exactly a govt is Focusing on.
Singapore Has no Natural resources but Still Can Invest in different ways Of Bussiness.. if I am not wrong from past few years man power Bussiness is the major one It focused... (Examples Major Companies Making SG its headquarters .But what exactly it will bring is the Key)
Need to Start investing in Other sectors
Developing own Agriculture horticulture manufacuriNg... And Healthcare Supplies Manufacturing Etc Need to be Focused more...rather than Just Having Financial Services headquarters...
And Also When Comes To education the whole System need to be Changed...Let the Children Have some space where It will give them Time For Exploration.. analysis .. self thinking....
Having Projects or Heavy Curriculum Infact will harm The child curiosity To learn more.
Exam and Grades focused system need to Corrected.
[6:15 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Those who good at talking but can't do are not r&d talent.
Those who can think, design, and produce are those talents that are easily spotted.
CQ
[6:15 pm, 25/09/2020] +: no, nothing beats being the second. being the first means the structure is not fixed, teachers don't know what could go wrong, a lot of loose ends, when the students are confused, the teachers are none the wiser. but after all the teething issues in the 1st batch, the teachers will put stuff in place to "counter" those issues faced by the first batch, and they will be more prepared to give better grades because the batch immediately before totally die-ded. so everyone picks up the candy from the pinata, and by the 3rd batch, the teachers realise they were too lenient before and recalibrates again. this would be more or less the middle ground which continues for the mid- to long term, but yah, 2nd batch is the best.
[6:16 pm, 25/09/2020] +: but it's not the R&D making it big right? it's the ones who can sell the business that's earning the millions, not the worker bees.....
[6:17 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
No r&d what to sell?
CQ
[6:19 pm, 25/09/2020] +: correct. so the ones who can talk will take the hard work produced by the R&D staff to sell, and they're credited for being oh so brilliant, oh so innovative and they make it onto Tatler and Forbes. Don't see the actual R&D people getting there. it's sad, but they will forever be the one silent worker in a group project, pulling it all together for 1 person or a select few to take credit.
Rama
[6:21 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Chan Chun Sing: Covid-19 pandemic will intensify competition for white-collar jobs
https://theindependent.sg/chan-chun-sing-covid-19-pandemic-will-intensify-competition-for-white-collar-jobs/
[6:21 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Okay
[6:22 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Bill gates. Facebook, Alibaba etc are r&d engineer turn CEO.
Rama
[6:25 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Yes
CQ
[6:26 pm, 25/09/2020] +: these are also the ones who can speak and present themselves. not saying that they can't do the work, on the contrary, i think they can! they have the substance! but wonder what happened to the other people on their team and what their contributions were?
[6:26 pm, 25/09/2020] +: sorry i very emo today. so sick and tired of having to drive changes while other people who have similarly vested interests just sit on their bottoms and wait from manna to fall from heaven.
Rama
[6:27 pm, 25/09/2020] +: 😅😃😂😨😱
[6:30 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Very good r&d engineer are CTO if they can't be CEO or very senior technology position.
Ken
[6:33 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Don’t think any engineer can be CEO or have amazing companies.
Those are people with passion and think big or for some crazy.. lol
[6:35 pm, 25/09/2020] +: In the climb towards success, many will die it is a cut throat business world. To be able to do whatever it takes to get there. Which most of us Singaporean will be afraid to cross the line to fake it, till they make it.
[6:36 pm, 25/09/2020] +: To be a dreamer is not easy... being taught in our system don’t create dreamers. More of workers for the MNC.
[6:37 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
MDM Ho Ching is an engineer who turn very successful CEO in finance sector.
Ken
[6:37 pm, 25/09/2020] +: The terms for her is a bit different... not many can go her route
[6:38 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I know of many good r&d engineer who takes on very senior technology role.
CQ
[6:39 pm, 25/09/2020] +: the qualification to be CTO is premised more on his/her ability to manage the staff within the context of the tech space. yes they do have the tech knowledge, but they would not be subject matter experts because at some point, their time and energy would've been diverted to people management rather than technical ability.
CEOs need to be visionaries, but it's a very thin line between vision and brainfart. and even if it comes to pass because the R&D guys managed to cough it up, guess who gets the credit? "oohhh this guy such a visionary". no one ever says "oohhh.... the R&D so talented..."
[6:39 pm, 25/09/2020] +: yah, how many can get to marry a PM. 🤭
[6:40 pm, 25/09/2020] +: not doubting that, but how many of them are on the Forbes list/ Tatler for their technical abilities?
[6:41 pm, 25/09/2020] +: so i guess my life experience taught me that no matter how good you are in terms of your expertise, the guy in sales will always get 70cents for every dollar while you get 30cents
[6:42 pm, 25/09/2020] +: or 20-25 cents if you're female...
[6:42 pm, 25/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Forbes list need very big domestic market to support - at least $100 billion company.
US, China, India, EU, Japan, SKorea can make it.
Singapore market so small how to groom $100 billion company.
Only gic and Temasek Holdings can.
Ken
[6:43 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Cause no matter how good you are making it
[6:43 pm, 25/09/2020] +: If you can’t sell it is a useless product
CQ
[6:44 pm, 25/09/2020] +: https://sg.asiatatler.com/life/singapores-richest-on-forbes-2020-billionaires-list#:~:text=The%20world's%20economy%20has%20taken,drop%20in%20their%20net%20worth.
we have... just need to be able to sell it overseas
Ken
[6:44 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Sales deserve it for the reason, if not they won’t be paid so high
REACH
[6:45 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Dear Contributors!
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
CQ
[6:45 pm, 25/09/2020] +: the guys behind the product need to gain more recognition lah. if they didn't manage to come up with that product, the company won't even be around
Ken
[6:47 pm, 25/09/2020] +: It’s hard... if it were that way I won’t be paid so bad for support roles 😭
[6:47 pm, 25/09/2020] +: They ask headcount so easy
[6:47 pm, 25/09/2020] +: We want headcount wait we shall review lol
CQ
[6:49 pm, 25/09/2020] +: i hope you can get the headcount!!! 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Valli
[6:58 pm, 25/09/2020] +: I totally agree our education system need to be improved & new tech concepts to be introduced from a young age.
Rama
[6:58 pm, 25/09/2020] +: No doubt!
REACH
[7:00 pm, 25/09/2020] +: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
+ changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group.
+ changed the group description. Click to view.
======
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