REACH 137 - Balancing top foreign talents with Singaporean workers (SK)
9 Sep 2020 (12pm - 8pm)
[11:06 am, 09/09/2020] +: Dear contributors,
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- Megan
REACH
[12:00 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐ข Today's Topic ๐ข
What are your views on Singapore's need to balance being open to the world and foreign talent, while ensuring that companies build the Singaporean workforce and that locals have fair access to job opportunities?
On Tuesday, Mr Chan said that Singapore’s foreign worker policies are moving towards quality instead of quantity, but it is not a sign that the country is turning away foreign talent. Rather, it shows that Singapore is serious about discriminatory hiring practices, he said.
"We will continue to make Singapore the preferred hub for companies to connect and do business with Asia and the rest of the world," Mr Chan said, adding that one way to do this is to remain open to foreign talent.
Said Mr Chan: "Let me be clear - we want the world's best and brightest to be with Team Singapore, to augment our skills and capabilities, competing on our side rather than against us, to benefit Singaporeans, not to substitute or hurt them."
Singapore will also continue to invest in transportation infrastructure and trade networks, train its workers and pursue "new frontiers of growth" like biomedical sciences and agri-food technology.
๐https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-foreign-worker-policy-global-talent-chan-chun-sing-13091960
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[12:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Turn our focus from "scholars" and invest more in those who have the actual talent and passion
[12:04 pm, 09/09/2020] +: The returns might not be as good. And passion can be fake more easily as compare to marks.
[12:04 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Passion hard to judge or grade them
[12:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I totally disagree
Our society has focused too damn much on "meritocracy" and neglecting those that actually can contribute
[12:06 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
CNA
Singapore remains open to global talent; aim is to benefit, not substitute Singaporeans: Chan Chun Sing
By Rachel Phua @RachelPhuaCNA
08 Sep 2020 05:10PM (Updated: 08 Sep 2020 05:19PM)
FUTURE OF SINGAPORE AS A GLOBAL HUB
Delivering the keynote address for the forum, titled Singapore – the global hub and gateway to ASEAN, Mr Chan talked about how COVID-19 has changed the way companies do business, and whether there is still a need for regional and global “hubs”.
“In a more fragmented global economy, there will like not just be a single hub, but a series of key nodes in a larger network with other nodes that must be able to connect seamlessly with one other,” said Mr Chan.
“For Singapore, we aim to be one of these critical nodes in the global system, even if the world is heading to bifurcation or fragmentation."
The country must not see itself as just a “gateway” – serving as a location to trade through - but as a “critical node” for businesses as Singapore adds value to their supply chain, Mr Chan said.
“We will continue to make Singapore the preferred hub for companies to connect and do business with Asia and the rest of the world,” Mr Chan said, adding that one way to do this is to remain open to foreign talent.
“We do not take this for granted. We know the competition is stiff. If we do not adapt to the changing nature of how businesses operate, we will be easily bypassed.”
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[7:10 pm, 31/08/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Part 4 - Foreign Affair Policy - that promote trade, business, investment, travel.
(1) As Singapore depends on the World to be our market - to survive and to thrive - we need to be the Air *hub, Port hub, Data hub, Finance hub, Manufacturing hub, Medical hub, Food hub, Water hub, Energy hub etc*.
(2) To build up all these "Hubs" --- we need to have a good, balance and fair foreign affairs policies --- to make friends, and to achieve mutual benefits with all our Stakeholders in the World*.
(3) Hence we must put forward a Holisitc Foreign Affairs Policy Principle and Statement - so that our Foreign stakeholders understand our position and will want to be friends and do business with us :-
"Be Friends with All,
Be enemies with None.
Forge Mutual Benefits with Win-Win outcome".
"ๆๅๆปกๅคฉไธ。
ๆไบบๆ ไธไธช。
ไปฅ้ๆ ้ๅฉ็ๅ ฑ่ฏ，่พพๆๅ่ตข็็ปๆ。“
[5:57 pm, 14/08/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My close friend say: It's also about ๆขไฝ and position sg
---+
Yes.
Singapore got no big hinterland and big godfather to help us.
We must look out and seize opportunity for ourselves.
HK kenna sanction by US. No problem.
HK got big hinterland behind and big godfather China - pour in multi billion dollars into HK to make up lost ground.
Singapore don't have such luxury and we need to stay alert and fight for our survival and rice bowl.
7:58 pm, 31/08/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If no hub.
We will have nothing.
[7:58 pm, 31/08/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
We will be bypass.
[6:00 pm, 14/08/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Got to open up but do so safely.
Once people bypass our hub - we got no hubby - and we will permanently lose hub business and jobs.
[12:07 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/singapore-an-early-mover-in-restoring-international-aviation-links-536162
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[12:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Takes years to find a way to judge.
Passionate takes years to see... and results. I seen many fakes ones around give recommendations and run Liao ๐คฆ♂️
[12:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: After they got what they apply for
[12:08 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
CNA
Singapore remains open to global talent; aim is to benefit, not substitute Singaporeans: Chan Chun Sing
By Rachel Phua @RachelPhuaCNA
08 Sep 2020 05:10PM (Updated: 08 Sep 2020 05:19PM)
Singapore’s foreign worker policies are shifting towards “quality rather than quantity” but the country still welcomes foreign talent, said Minister for Trade and Industry Chan Chun Sing on Tuesday (Sep 8).
Singapore will continue to bring in foreign talent “in a calibrated manner” to create opportunities for Singaporeans, he added.
“Let me be clear. We want the world’s best and brightest to be with Team Singapore – to augment our skills and capabilities, competing on our side rather than against us, and ultimately, to benefit Singaporeans, not to substitute or to hurt them.”
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[6:46 pm, 31/08/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: ---
Part 3 - Macro Manpower Policy
(1) Macro Manpower Policy need to ensure we achieve the following :-
a. A Singaporean core - ensure that all Singaporeans can land a good jobs - so that Singaporeans will have good income and good quality lives can be ensured for Singaporean workers and their families.
b. As our domestic markets are too small - we cannot rely on domestic market alone. We need to make the World our Market.
(2) Thus how to achieve the dual objectives of "A Singaporean core - supplemented and complemented by foreigners to make the World our Market"?
(3) Then we need to adopt 3 Macro Manpower Thrusts - to be our Macro Manpower Policy :-
(i) Don't bring in foreign workers that Singaporean can do and compete with Singaporeans for jobs.
By doing so, we will build "A Singaporean Core".
(ii). Bring in only foreigners that can contribute millions or billions of investment into Singapore, or bring in ideas, r&d and skillsets that Singaporean do not have - but as a result create many new and good quality jobs for Singaporeans.
(iii). Bring in foreigners for those jobs that Singaporeans don't want to do - but needed for our economy.
For eg. constructions jobs - we need alot of construction workers to build our HDB flats, condos, landed houses, shopping malls, water plants, climate protection, airports etc ---- that will help to create good qualtiy jobs for Singaporeans such as architect, surveyors, electrical and mechanical engineers, envrionmental engineers IT professionals to build fiber broadband, smart homes etc.
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[12:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Those volunteer can achieve many things in short time, but won’t continue to contribute after they got what they wanted. Is fact, I still prefer marks. At least you know they can do work. Rather than faking it.
[12:09 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Then too bad that we live in a society as such and no one bothers to do anything about it
[12:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: A very tough act to balance.
[12:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: It’s not easy judge. And many factors to take in consideration.
Also requires good mentoring system to have new blood constantly engaged.
[12:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: In general we should train people to be responsible citizens, like how Japanese pre-school they made great kids
[12:12 pm, 09/09/2020] +: With that kind of mindset, to think for others.
[12:14 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yes
[12:14 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Sadly their high school is the reverse of what we want lol ๐
[12:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: The kids are just so cute and responsible little adults
[12:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I don't suppose my behaviour stems from all these so-called pre-school education
Everyone is different
[12:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: It does affect them somehow. It toot deeply in the culture
[12:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Root”
[12:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: That's a pretty general statement to begin with
[12:24 pm, 09/09/2020] +: re: "Singapore’s foreign worker policies are moving towards quality instead of quantity" - does it mean that Sg has been basing our foreign worker policy on quantity instead of quality until recently? Additionally, what is "quality" - this is a highly subjective term. If a company hires non-Singaporeans, does it mean that it can't find quality Singaporeans? Isn't this divisive? Subjective terms like talent and quality are unlikely to help matters since they contain a "win-lose" element of "I am talented/quality and that's why I am chosen over you who are not".
[12:25 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Can a better approach be thought of, to balance this sensitive issue with our need to be open?
[12:26 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For me it's "Why are you jealous of me when you don't even bother to do anything to be the slightest like me?"
People hate me for what I do but they don't seem to be a "better alternative" to me anyway
[12:27 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yes, and this concerns the other part of the equation - Singaporeans need to be more competitive
[12:29 pm, 09/09/2020] +: They are the silver spoon-fed kids that people talk about
Don't do anything much, apart from complaining pointlessly and endlessly
[12:29 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yup. Therefore, what is to be competitive is something we need to answer too. It is not to study more ...?
[12:31 pm, 09/09/2020] +: In what areas do we need to be more competitive in?
[12:31 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For me personally there's nothing more I can say
I'm the living example but also considered as a scholar but I'll go all out to prove to people that not all scholars are elitist especially when I come from a lower-middle income family
[12:32 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Elitism is an attitude, not an income issue :)
[12:32 pm, 09/09/2020] +: They are intertwined by society if you noticed
[12:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yes. But elitism as an attitude is not exclusive to any part of the society. One too many time, I have seen middle income family wanting their kids only to mix with "the right crowd" and not the "ordinary crowd"... isn't this already looking down on the "ordinary crowd" because they don't have extra to offer?
[12:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: They do their thing, I do mine
I don't look down on people until they look down on me
Otherwise, I'm a pretty nice person to talk with
[12:36 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐
[12:36 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐
[12:37 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Is there a right crowd? I had friends who are gangsters but that doesn't make me one
Rather than looking for the right crowd, enter a typical crowd and just make friends. This way we can reduce the stigmatisation between "classes" in society
[12:38 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Boink. What's the topic for today?
[12:38 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Neh here the topic
[12:40 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Very difficult ar, we locals already have this thinking damn foreigners are take our local jobs and favouring them over us. Not easy ar!
Everywhere alr pple showing ugly face to foreigners. V V V V difficult ar!
[12:42 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Fundamentally how can a country ever favour foreigners over its own people right?
Then again we have to see which industry, sector and sub-sector we're talking about and whether we can train up locals to enter those areas
Otherwise we'll have to live with some jobs practically sticking with foreigners permanently
[12:43 pm, 09/09/2020] +: But also must look at practicality la, where got locals willing to be cleaners, construction workers, helpers etc etc.
[12:44 pm, 09/09/2020] +: But when we look at these roles, we will have to see if society perceives them for the job they do, or the identity they hold
[12:45 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I have an ex-colleague old uncle, worked in Indonesia many years when he was there there were many locals there who are graduates but are willing to work as cleaners. He was really surprised.
But here in Singapore it's different. We see ourselves as an ATAS nation.
[12:46 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ExactLEE, like what gahmen said, we have to lower our expectations
[12:47 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Ya lo super difficult.
[12:58 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Difficult to compare. In Indonesia they may suffer from lack of job opportunities, but in Singapore our G put in a lot of efforts to attract companies to establish their branch offices here, so there are more job opportunity for graduates.
[1:17 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For the “low-level” jobs our G always encourage automation. However not all jobs can be automated and some of them require skills. Eg 1) Building custom musical instruments. One violin luthier said he moved all his operations to Indonesia because of Singapore’s high cost. A local guitar luthier had to move his manufacturing to China. His repair workshop in Singapore employs a Malaysian to do the repair work. Eg 2) Gem/Jewellery manufacturing. Diamond cutting is still done by manual labor. If working with gems that are free form (means doesn’t come in standard shapes and sizes) it requires customization.
These are jobs that employers can’t afford to pay that well (otherwise their products will be super expensive and no customers will buy) and it is difficult…
[1:29 pm, 09/09/2020] +: This seems to be out of topic
[1:29 pm, 09/09/2020] +: We need get talents from abroad for cutting edge technology and skill sets. Agri tech, chemist/chemical technologist/engineer, etc. while local team build up our capabilities by taking on simpler roles in the same industry.
For industries that are seasoned like Banking and Finance etc we should already have our own people leading the organizations. Again I want to emphasize that it’s better to have a few locals but in mgmt roles in orgs than many “local core” who occupy the lower rungs. Hence the shortage of manpower should be lower wage roles and not higher ones.
[1:30 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For unfair hiring practices, go the individuals and penalize them.
[1:30 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Your aim is to benefit Singaporean.. but along the way, the garment has pickup too many.. The best are rare and few to find.. but we have got tonnes of the "BEST"?
[1:30 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Make big news about it and such practices will stop totally.
[1:33 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yes there are. Which brings to a point aren’t our graduates picky in their job selection? That’s another hurdle.
[1:34 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oxford vaccine, 1 person got serious side effects. but expected to recover.
trial halted.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/astrazeneca-puts-covid-19-vaccine-trial-on-hold-over-safety-13093518
[1:45 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Singaporeans in general are very picky. It's not a generational problem.
There are many factors we can attribute to it, one of which our currency's strength against other countries in this region. This means there are many able and willing foreign workers to do the jobs we snobbishly deem as lowly.
Another is the Singaporean hypercompetitive environment. In these graduates' eyes, they would be looking to maximise what they have invested. Low paid, low skilled jobs will not do that.
Plus our leaders are not setting themselves as examples. The closest i can think of is the WP MP, who has done jobs which are seen as lowly. Now that's someone who can inspire our graduates and show them that taking that step will not impede their career (and now importantly, wage) growth
[1:48 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Wonder which job that WP MP is lowly?
[1:49 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Mmm very good, more and more new names coming out to join in on the conversation
[1:52 pm, 09/09/2020] +: https://www.wp.sg/candidates/abdul-shariff-bin-aboo-kassim/
[1:53 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
He is a researcher.
Not a lowly job.
[1:53 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I remember his story being shared widely in the Malay ans Muslim communities because being an undertaker is still considered 'taboo' and lowly
[1:53 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Well done
[1:54 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Please look through his job history. He has other roles listed, not just that one
[1:54 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If he is a student working part time to finance his study it is different when he graduated and work as a researcher.
[1:55 pm, 09/09/2020] +: A taboo is a taboo but who's going to take the role of an undertaker if everyone constantly rumbles about taboos right?
[1:56 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Exactly. There are actually courses asking young Muslims to upskill themselves in this area. I know a number who did so, out of curiosity, and out of willingness to learn about the craft and skill needed
[2:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Researcher not very high usually... and no OT pay. (Non PhD researcher shouldn’t be more than $4k.)
As compare to usual job have OT and progression
[2:06 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For a master and degree holder it stops there unless he do management roles
[2:07 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Non PhD researcher but 1st class honour is $5000.
[2:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐ from where? What field?
[2:07 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: IT.
[2:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: IT I know have.. Life Sci no..
[2:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: IT different league
[2:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Is this true ? My friend’s son is a life science researcher and he has migrated to US for 7 years already because he found no good opportunity here . The father wants to come back and couldn’t find good reasons .
[2:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: IT not much PhD that are like really really good. Very different field
[2:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: A-G Lucien Wong not involved in ex-maid Parti Liyani's case, has recused himself from review which deputy A-G Hri Kumar will lead: AGC https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/ag-lucien-wong-not-involved-in-ex-maid-parti-liyanis-case-has-recused-himself?utm_source=Telegram&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=STTG&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany
[2:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yes very true
[2:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Hence I left R&D
[2:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Was in there 5 years
[2:09 pm, 09/09/2020] +: He said his son was not appreciated here . Thus flew off to US .
[2:09 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Sad!
[2:09 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Agreed! The one I saw with 5k was the AI PhD scholarship with OCBC.
[2:10 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Life science can’t find job here... we train and let them go overseas part of the reason I didn’t take up PhD
[2:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Take Liao you can’t find job in Singapore over qualified
[2:12 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Research in Singapore jobs many... but very stagnant. If you don’t go out you can’t gain enough points for your assist professorship. If you check almost 80 to 90% are from overseas IVY league local PhD not much.
[2:13 pm, 09/09/2020] +: The world is funny . I learn thru a program last week that our grad can’t make pass the google interviews here but got jobs in US/UK.
Heard that so many very talented people wanted to work in Singapore . The competiton is too intense here
[2:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Singapore competition is very high..
we are good enough for overseas lol.. but locally not really, the support for R&D in Singapore is very good that they attract competition from global.
PhD in UK/US life sci (3k to 3.5k USD)
Singapore starting is 4K SGD
How to fight?
[2:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: As in post doc pay range
[2:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: The only good think is for local aspiring researcher get to work in those lab as RA. As part of the requirement by government recent few years.
[2:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Thing”
[2:23 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I rmb my colleague was complaining about this. He was comparing his experience in academia with a PhD, vs others' career and wage growth in the private sector
[2:28 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yup... very sure will lose over time.. hence I switch, my boss consider my pay very high when the time I feel that I need to leave.
Work like a Slave, under appreciated, cause you no PhD you are not treated with respect. Just a lab manager ๐ข
Some post doc are just seriously bad Attitude.
[2:30 pm, 09/09/2020] +: A local who studied in UK shared that he drew less salaries as a ‘IT talent’ in UK than Singapore . That’s why he decided to move his family back .
Also his HK wife got a good job here and the children pay less school fees .
The pull factor is damn good which I believe it becomes competition not just for us as well as foreigners
[2:33 pm, 09/09/2020] +: 4 years as a executive in a MNC decent role you should earn more than a PhD. If you do reasonably well.
PhD you do awesomely good, you will able to join a super noble prize winning research center at a low pay. (Famous places in research pay lesser cause people will come in no matter the pay)
๐คท๐ป♂️
[2:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yup .
[2:38 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Why no one want to do PhD even overseas. To get to into PhD program in IVY league is not as hard as you think.
[2:43 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Low stipend, esp for those who are starting family
[2:47 pm, 09/09/2020] +: In Singapore with PhD what earn the best is Tuition teacher ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[2:48 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Based on among my friends...
unless they are overseas.
[2:49 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Don't need PhD to be a good AI research scholar.
Local universities computer science can already produce very good AI research scholars.
They do complex AI projects like autonomous driverless robots using machine learning, augmented reality, image processing, voice recognition etc.
They also do projects like sentiment analysis, digital analytics, and many other projects
[2:49 pm, 09/09/2020] +: To balance it, only way is that quality of our workers are better and more efficient. I really don’t see it any other way around it.
[2:51 pm, 09/09/2020] +: IT is a very different field ๐
That can pick up skill just being online.
My friend from maths able to become a senior consultant purely by learn its trade online.
[2:52 pm, 09/09/2020] +: You can hack a bank from your home, but you can’t create virus from your home. Some stuff are limited by resource. For IT the resource if unlimited.
[2:58 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Some even build their own servers to do Blockchain and mine bitcoins.
[2:58 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
You don't need a PhD to do it.
[3:47 pm, 09/09/2020] +: 75 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, including 1 community infection
Singapore reported 75 new COVID-19 cases as of noon on Wednesday (Sep 9), with one community infection, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its preliminary update.
Further updates will be announced later on Wednesday, the ministry said.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-singapore-new-cases-community-imported-moh-sep-9-13093760
[3:48 pm, 09/09/2020] +: @☸️ Danny ๅฟ which uni 1st class get 5k at researcher de?
[3:52 pm, 09/09/2020] +: nowadays researcher is a very mis-used title...
those street side survey also can be called researchers
[3:52 pm, 09/09/2020] +: not that low la but must see what time of researchers
[3:54 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
2 local universities.
[3:54 pm, 09/09/2020] +: you must see who is their mentor lei.....
[3:54 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Lol you know the game haha
[3:55 pm, 09/09/2020] +: haha he said 1st class lei, not after getting PHD ma
[3:55 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Oh... you mean that..
[3:55 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
They got outside research jobs not uni research jobs.
[3:56 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes 1st class not PhD.
[3:56 pm, 09/09/2020] +: hahaha NUS & NTU? is cow dung la
[3:57 pm, 09/09/2020] +: i spent 11 year in research (7 in Aus and 4 in SG )
[3:58 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then how much you fetch?
[3:58 pm, 09/09/2020] +: getting 5k for a research position for a 1st class graduate job is very very rare la
[3:58 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Too bad.
People got it.
[4:00 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Agreed. Unless they're in consulting, in such case they're consultants who research and not researchers.
[4:00 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
They do solid r&d.
[4:01 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Not that rare... if you know the right company ๐
[4:01 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Google fresh master 8k
[4:02 pm, 09/09/2020] +: 6 to 8k from what I heard
[4:02 pm, 09/09/2020] +: If we're talking FAANG, their salaries are definitely on the high end. A few years back, UX researcher for 5+k is what they quoted a friend of mine. Pass bachelor degree, private uni
[4:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: But if we're talking the average researcher? Then those salaries are not high
[4:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: haha context context!! @☸️ Danny ๅฟ said researchers ma NOT Software Engineer ๐คฃ
[4:04 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Did I say software engineer.
The title is "research scholar".
[4:04 pm, 09/09/2020] +: haha not a lot can get in FAANG as fresh Grad in SG office...
[4:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: What is FAANG?
[4:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: no la, not about u, was telling @Ken you are saying researcher not SW Engineer
[4:06 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix; and Google.
[4:06 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Researcher degree hmm.. I don’t know them well. ๐คท๐ป♂️
I know DSO do pay well ๐คฃ
[4:06 pm, 09/09/2020] +: or the tech giants
[4:06 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Some people who do IT engineering jobs plus research fetch close to $10k.
[4:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I see Accenture is one of the big one ๐
[4:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: cos non transferrable ma
[4:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: NOT big enough unless the person is going Tech / Biz Consulting
[4:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: very low...
[4:09 pm, 09/09/2020] +: how much can this fetch?
[4:10 pm, 09/09/2020] +: and this?
[4:10 pm, 09/09/2020] +: why are you not doing it? haha
[4:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 9 Sep]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed an additional 75 cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore.
Based on investigations so far, there is 1 case in the community (1 Work Pass holder).
In addition, there are 14 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore.
Amongst the 60 cases residing in dormitories today, 31 are from Westlite Toh Guan dormitory, the vast majority of whom had been placed on quarantine earlier and were tested during quarantine to determine their status.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh9sepupdate
[4:12 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Accenture | Fortune
Years on Global 500 List, 18. Employees, 459,000. Accenture Rank History. 2019: 298 1995 2000 2005 2010 2015 300 350 400 450 500.
Years on Global 500 List: 18
Employees: 459,000
Industry: Information Technology Services
CEO: Julie Sweet
Don’t think you know the company lol
[4:14 pm, 09/09/2020] +: erm.... ACN is my vendor haha
[4:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Then you say they small ๐
[4:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: My sis in law fresh already 3.8
[4:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: erm their employees is like 460k worldwide and look at netflix
[4:17 pm, 09/09/2020] +: 8,600 (2019) employees
Revenue: US$20.156 billion (2019)
Market Cap: 223.60B
VS
Acccenture
460k employees
Revenue: 43.2 billion USD (2019)
Market Cap: 148.01B
[4:18 pm, 09/09/2020] +: haha compared to the FAANG, they are really small haha
[4:18 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐ I noob
[4:18 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I don’t even know what is FAANG
[4:18 pm, 09/09/2020] +: eh no la, we are all discussing here
[4:18 pm, 09/09/2020] +: and we learn from each others ma
[4:19 pm, 09/09/2020] +: we all learn new things every day haha
[4:19 pm, 09/09/2020] +: One is B2B the other is B2C
[4:19 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Market very different
[4:19 pm, 09/09/2020] +: that is true
[4:20 pm, 09/09/2020] +: To earn money from B and G are so hard
[4:20 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Justification and margin cannot be too high
[4:21 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Not so scalable like B2C market
[4:23 pm, 09/09/2020] +: All of them are B2C market
Facebook a bit different lol earning mostly from B2B
[4:26 pm, 09/09/2020] +: haha agree but for some facts sharing
1st year salary:
Research Assistant - Degree (1 or 2.1) - 2.8k - 3.8k (depends of fields)
PHD Candidate - before confirmed 3k - 4k + Employer CPF + any other top up
PHD Candidate - after confirmed 3.5k - 4.5k + Employer CPF + any other top up
Research Associate/Engineer - Masters / Prof Doc / PHD - 3.8k - 6.8k (depends of fields)
Research Fellow/ Post-Doc - Prof Doc / PHD - 4k - 8k (depends of fields)
[4:28 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
University research of course lower pay.
Outside research are commercialised and sold to the market - of course fetch higher salary.
[4:29 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Sadly research outside is very hard to find. For life sci, the rest not so sure. Cause not from that field
[4:30 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Big corporations, GLCs, MNCs will have.
[4:32 pm, 09/09/2020] +: pi la haha can u name a few GLC or MNC that do alot of research? got office in sg de hor
[4:33 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Too bad for you to discover, not my liberty to disclose.
[4:33 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐
[4:34 pm, 09/09/2020] +: GSK move out due to scandal lol, P&G move from japan, novartis move out, GE water/power move out.
[4:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Lol
[4:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I know quite a lot move out after gov no more funding for them
[4:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: P&G likely the case also... so don’t join lol
[4:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Similae with my cohort's experience in finance/banking etc
[4:36 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For private sector
[4:38 pm, 09/09/2020] +: This is the research wing..
[4:38 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Mitsui chemical have a technical Centre here but don’t hire PhD lol
[4:38 pm, 09/09/2020] +: TPC also have R&D but don’t hire PhD
[5:13 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Hi everyone do continue to provide your views on today's topic, thanks! :)
[6:01 pm, 09/09/2020] +: The issue to me is are we training our talented graduate students properly. The current grad studies in the universities are primed towards academia and paper publishing, instead of building deep relevant skills that are demanded by the industry
[6:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: My work allowed me to be some sort of middleman between the university and industry. Many times i have heard that the university researchers do not want to embark on projects cos it is not publishable
[6:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Researchers here refers to both Profs and grad students
[6:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: True... cause once is commercial you cannot publish
[6:04 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Can only publish if patent is applied
[6:04 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yeah, and also what is needed in the industry may not be interesting academically
[6:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Different KPI so oh well.. that’s also why industrial R&D is worth more because of the know how
[6:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: So the need for university to pursue higher ranking -> paper publishing KPI for Profs -> low interest to work on impactful but less academically interesting projects
[6:06 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Prof will take up commercial if the money is high, and they can publish part of the findings.. but only those well established prof will willing to spend the extra man power to do such research
[6:07 pm, 09/09/2020] +: And also we don have enough local students doing PhD studies here. So when govt agency need university to look at more sensitive data, they find that the researchers are foreigners
[6:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Chicken and egg principle haiz
[6:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Sometimes i feel that it is not the case that we don have local talents, but rather that we are ignoring those with potential to contribute
[6:08 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Without enough research no funding to hire, hence no job.
No job no one willing to do PhD.
[6:09 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yes, thats true
[6:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: here is your chances to comment!
[6:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: https://www.nrf.gov.sg/rie2025-feedback
[6:11 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Lol I was from the NRF research group
[6:12 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Will give feedback later thanks for sharing
[6:13 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Think funding can be better manage, but also a gamble not all Singaporean profs are good, but if don’t fund them no future generations of researchers
[6:14 pm, 09/09/2020] +: https://www.tech.gov.sg/products-and-services/trans-grant/
tried but faile....
[6:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: You know how research and clinical study works right? How many will eventually make it.. ๐คท๐ป♂️
If we don’t burn nothing can come out also
[6:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Need long many years to create something useful
[6:15 pm, 09/09/2020] +: yea a small amount only ma 25mil for 3 years
[6:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: We don’t have enough money to give them to fail to learn something so they can improve on the next research
[6:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: caveat: 25mil in research is consider little
[6:16 pm, 09/09/2020] +: For the PhD students, there should ideally be more room for industry-related achievements. E.g. PhD grad requirement can be widened to include completion of impactful industry projects, rather than focusing narrowly on paper publication
[6:17 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Takes year to acquire knowledge and skills... if we don’t burn, things don’t come up from no where
[6:17 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Yeah, prudent spending
[6:18 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Singapore bring in lots of big profs, and we do learn a lot from them. But to be independent it takes long mentorship and friendship establish over the years.
[6:19 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Why overseas develop nation can do it cause of number of years and legacy in research.
[6:20 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Important for the local students to learn from them and develop their research potential, but such interaction has to be created deliberately
[6:20 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Cannot have renowned prof to come in with their own folks and leave after few years in SG
[6:20 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Take me for example I am in research for number of years but didn’t stay on. Cause I don’t see future.. I don’t have the passion to push on cause I have a family to feed to worry about. ๐
Recent push for cpf is good, that’s also part of the reason Singaporean don’t do PhD.
[6:20 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Cause when you study you can’t have income to buy house
[6:21 pm, 09/09/2020] +: That’s normal they do where the money is..
[6:21 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Can feel your pain ๐ซ
[6:22 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Being realistic also part of the reason we fail as we want more Singaporean to be in research.
[6:23 pm, 09/09/2020] +: I really feel that is a lot of missed opportunity; our grad students can be trained to be world-class domain experts in the industry. Yet, we are comfortable letting them focus narrowly on paper publication in the academia
[6:23 pm, 09/09/2020] +: And bring in foreign talents to fill the gaps...
[6:25 pm, 09/09/2020] +: yeah, applies to social workers too, alot left then they increase the salary, but the Volunteer welfare org, don't pay so well
[6:26 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Cause it helps with our ranking... but the thing is Singaporean rarely work overseas the ranking don’t really matters.
Other than putting us on the map.
[6:30 pm, 09/09/2020] +: It draws in top percentage of the talent overseas as well, we get to know them establish network.
[6:31 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Most of us in uni have overseas classmate friend that do well. But we don’t go out even though we are quite good.
[6:31 pm, 09/09/2020] +: SG is too comfortable, which turns out to be negative factor in this case
[6:32 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐คฃ๐คฃ my wife don’t want to go although have offer in aust ๐คท๐ป♂️
[6:32 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Being too comfortable is key
[6:33 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Double edge sword
[6:35 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Agree ๐
[6:59 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Implement flexible workplace hours to prevent crowding in public; first-time F&B offenders will now face enforcement action: Lawrence Wong
Employers have been urged to implement flexible workplace hours to allow workers to travel off-peak and reduce the risk of large crowds, as Singapore continues to resume more activities amid the COVID-19 outbreak.
Said co-chair Minister Lawrence Wong at Wednesday’s (Sep 9) multi-ministry task force press conference: “For workplaces, we are now looking at how more employees can return to work safely.”
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-flexible-working-hours-crowding-fnb-enforcement-action-13095410
[7:00 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Pre-departure COVID-19 tests to be required for travellers from India who are not Singapore residents
Travellers with recent travel history to India and who are not Singapore citizens or permanent residents will soon be required to take a COVID-19 test before departing for Singapore, the COVID-19 multi-ministry task force said on Wednesday (Sep 9).
The announcement was made during a press conference held by the task force, amid reports of a resurgence of infections in India. Singapore has also observed a significant number of imported cases with recent travel history to India, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) in a press release on Wednesday.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-pre-departure-test-travellers-india-13095234
[7:02 pm, 09/09/2020] +: 'Multi-layered' strategy in place to detect, contain new COVID-19 cases at migrant worker dormitories: MOM
The Ministry of Manpower (MOM) has implemented safe living, safe working and safe rest day measures in migrant worker dormitories to prevent the spread and formation of large COVID-19 clusters, said Second Minister for Manpower Tan See Leng on Wednesday (Sep 9).
“We’ve put in place a multi-layered strategy to detect, as well as to contain any new infections, very quickly and very decisively. And obviously, the key thing is prevention so we put in place safe living safe working safe rest days," said Dr Tan at a multi-ministry task force press conference.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-dormitories-new-cases-multi-layered-strategy-13095412
[7:03 pm, 09/09/2020] +: TraceTogether tokens to be issued; some SafeEntry points will soon require visitors to use TraceTogether to check in
The Government will distribute TraceTogether tokens to all Singapore residents from Sep 14, as authorities aim to enhance the existing contact tracing regime with a new system.
The Ministry of Health (MOH) announced on Wednesday (Sep 9) that it will pilot the deployment of SafeEntry that requires the use of either the TraceTogether app or token to check in at venues.
This will be tested out first at venues where there are larger groups coming together, especially when attendees have to closely interact with one another or where masks may not be worn all the time due to the nature of the activities.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/ne…
[7:05 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Senior-centric activities of up to 5, such as exercise sessions, can resume from today; singing classes not allowed
More senior-centric activities will resume from Wednesday (Sept 9) for the seniors' psycho-social well being, given that community infection rates have generally remained low and stable.
However, seniors still have to remain vigilant, conscientiously practise good hand hygiene and safe distancing, and keep to a small regular circle of contacts when going out, the multi-ministry task force announced in a virtual press conference on Wednesday.
Small group activities of up to five people may resume for senior-centric programmes organised by the People's Association, Health Promotion Board, Sport Singapore, and the Council for Third Age.
More: …
[7:46 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Dear Contributors!
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[7:47 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Goodnight Megan!
[7:48 pm, 09/09/2020] +: ๐ค✋๐๐๐๐๐ค
[7:55 pm, 09/09/2020] +: It is important for Singaporeans to have a view of what are some of industries that would underpin the future of Singapore's economy. Such views would then inform Singaporeans and the companies to be ready. Of course, things/situations can change and this would be part-and-parcel of being flexible and competitive enough to pivot. However, our govt should also be steadfast in their pursuit of what should drive our sustainable growth. By understanding the skills and experiences required on an ongoing basis, it can also allow Singapore to be open to accept and take on non-Singaporeans who can fill these skills gaps/train; and to act as a basis for equitability in employment practices.
For some of these non-Singaporeans who eventually wants to call Singapore ho…
[7:57 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/tracetogether-tokens-to-be-issued-to-singapore-residents-some-13095384
[7:58 pm, 09/09/2020] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well done, Trace together token will be given !
[7:58 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Govt's use of "Singapore Core" needs to be better understood by all. What is a Singapore Core? It should not be a matter of employing Singaporeans only, or foreigners only for specific jobs, or an affirmative action program. This will segregate our society, can ironically lead to more inward looking, and promote complacency.
[7:58 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Thanks
[7:59 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[7:59 pm, 09/09/2020] +: Good night.
+ changed the group description. Click to view.
+ changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group.
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