REACH 132 - Fair hiring to maintain a Singaporean Core (SK)
1 Sep 2020 (12pm - 8pm)
REACH
[11:40 am, 01/09/2020] +: Over 13,000 training places for employees in hard-hit aerospace sector; 35,000 other workers tapped support
Workers in the aerospace sector, heavily battered by the Covid-19 pandemic, will now be able to access more training courses with higher rates of subsidies.
More than 13,000 training places across about 100 courses will be made available to the sector. The training will cover topics such as aircraft maintenance, analytics and robotics operation.
Workers who go for the training will have their pay during the training period, as well as their course fees, subsidised by up to 90 per cent.
Trade and Industry Minister Chan Chun Sing and Minister of State for Manpower Gan Siow Huang announced the support measure during a visit to the to Singapore Aero Engine Services facility on Tuesday (Sept 1).
More: https://str.sg/J7F4
REACH
[11:59 am, 01/09/2020] +: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! ☺️
⏰ Our chat will be open from 12pm to 8pm today.
Please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group. ππΌ
The topic will be posted shortly.
- Megan
REACH
[12:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: π’ Topic π’
What do you think of the Government’s efforts to strengthen the Singaporean core, by ensuring that businesses implement fair hiring of Singaporeans?
Companies will not be allowed to practise wanton discrimination against local workers because in the current difficult economic climate as it is “all the more important” that Singaporeans are given fair opportunities to find meaningful work, said Second Minister for Manpower Tan See Leng.
He added that the Government will give Singaporean jobseekers a stronger boost “by working with businesses to give more serious consideration to Singaporeans when hiring, especially those who are wiling to adjust their expectations and adapt”.
While Minister Tan pledged to support two key groups of workers - yo…
+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.
+ changed the group description. Click to view.
[12:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Good afternoon 2G Megan, now the thing is how can we tell locals to lower their expectations and how low can they possibly get? Will this push a change for locals to try jobs that have been neglected or even avoided and were only taken by FTs?
[12:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It's going to be very tricky considering how companies will find loopholes.
[12:04 pm, 01/09/2020] +: But cannot negative cash flow.
[12:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Milk powder cost, child care cost, tuition cost, meal costs...
[12:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: People without family can survive with less
[12:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Mainly is the mindset, people don’t take up jobs for various reasons...
Jurong island have many jobs but no one want to come due to distance, risk etc
[12:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: People with family very tough
[12:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Tuition not a must, and Rc also have much cheaper one might not be as effective but still is a lot cheaper
[12:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I agree, tuition is not a must - in fact don't take it to heart but I think tuition is for those who want to push their kids really far
I admit I did have tuition but I don't see how that improved my scores or whatever, I just had general knowledge way before attending tuition classes which was why I left a positive impression on the tuition teacher
[12:10 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, the 90% subsidy is generous. Is there a way of means testing to be proportionate in subsidy according to need?
[12:10 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Tuition makes my score drops lol... I can’t do much of it.
End up study better when I decide that it is for my own good. Mindset more important than tuition. Singapore education are quite good. We have enough resource to do well. Free library, cheap internet. What else can we ask for?
My parents are bad with English, don’t know science etc. I survive although not top in class but can make a living
[12:11 pm, 01/09/2020] +: When I was single I has a lot more flexibility in my financial need. As a father I am responsibilities I cannot be flexible with. For families in hardship the effect can last generations, not just a frugal few months.
[12:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, Singapore scores high on international education charts. Maybe due to high degree of additional tuition, and the focus on maths, science, English.
[12:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The term Singaporean Core is still vaguely define. The term Locals also used too loosely as it does not includes Only Singaporean.
[12:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: https://youtu.be/HMIA741i-rk
[12:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: What is the purpose of this extra academic tuition? How does it broaden a child's mind?
[12:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fair hiring of "Singaporeans" will be interpreted differently.
[12:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I am from a low income family, i do not really agree with it.
Is expectation, I do not get to travel overseas, bread for school every meal for many many years. New clothes once a year. Adjust spending is doable. And government given quite a bit of assistance if really low income which can apply for pocket money fund for the kids meals, subsidize transport fare etc.
[12:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: One generation, I earn more than both my parent total income.
[12:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, the government here is very support..my question was about making g the supoort proportionate so those who need more get more and those who don't need aren't given.
[12:16 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Transport fare subsidy isn't too helpful either, I managed to apply for the $50 voucher and then poof it's gone
[12:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Just go to MPS for help or social workers then will tell you what kind of help you can apply.. believe me there is more than enough for those that required.
[12:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It has been insufficient all along but we are forgiving lot. The question now is how to ensure those who are retrench still able to get a relevant job.
[12:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: When I say relevant I mean jobs that are not transient or temporary like giving flyers or cleaner jobs etc
[12:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: You clearly worked hard and have done well. You sound appreciative to your parents too, which is notable.
[12:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Govt policy should be a level playing field in education for all, if fairness and upward mobility is to be fostered.
A large middle class will bring stability to society.
[12:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Agreed
[12:19 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Singapore’s education policies are progressive enough but can be further improved.
[12:19 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Ok, I'll not disagree with you. I don't have experience in this. If the system is working then all is well.
[12:19 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not sure if I worked hard, know that money is not easy to earn.
Been working my ass off while studying in poly. Spend time working during Friday and weekends. My results was bad haha.. but manage to pass and move on.
[12:20 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Sounds like you did work hard then!
[12:20 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Impose quota ratio eg. Local 70%, foreigners 30% for all companies.
If ratio don't meet, don't issue work pass to companies.
No support incentive for companies.
[12:21 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
These companies come to Singapore and benefits from our business environment to earn profit.
Thus they're also obliged to help locals to gain employment.
[12:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We need to be careful though to maintain an international focus. There are ways to compensate and mitigate, such as foreign worker tax which pays for retraining Singaporeans, for example.
[12:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I work in MPS few years back. Back then I see many abuse the system as well. Those that need help can get it, those don’t need help still can get it cause on paper they are poor.
I writing for a KTV cleaner that “has no income” can get free voucher and stuff.. even owns the latest iPhone. When I was still using a pretty old one π€¦♂️π€¦♂️
[12:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I think this one hard to implement cos EP no quota one
[12:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Assuming this head count but salary is FT 70%, local 30%, then how?
[12:22 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, it needs a planned process rather than blanket ratio
[12:22 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That's not what they think
[12:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Singapore needs foreign investment. No one owes us anything. Companies make commercial decisions.
[12:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yup
[12:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: CSR is always the last objective of companies - CSR is nothing but PR
[12:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: People want to come and work here for many reasons. Low tax, stable, safe, clean country. Well located for Asia.
[12:24 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Make it too difficult and they won't come.
[12:24 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Right now Singapore looks like a good place to be, but the world is changing. If companies around the globe are work from home people will be less keen to come.
[12:25 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Travel is difficult now. Singapore is small. People come to travel. They will get bored here.
[12:26 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They will want to stay home with families, for fear of being trapped.
[12:26 pm, 01/09/2020] +: These are immediate concerns, but will change in a year or two, we think.
[12:26 pm, 01/09/2020] +: And we do have social system, if you can prove you cannot work and no family to support they give you month sum of money. Not widely known but we do have such programs around
[12:27 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The poor call it the Chas Gold card π€¦♂️
[12:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I am not into giving handouts whereby the receiver rely need constant charity. I am inclined to helping the low income people obtain skills or opportunity to "labour/work" so that they live with integrity and pride
[12:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: But sadly is most of those on those monthly handout don’t usually get out of that cycle.
Where to find $30 monthly one room flat? π
Voucher every month.
Free medical
[12:32 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So now we know the trade off.
Not easy to do right.
[12:33 pm, 01/09/2020] +: This is the reason most of my friends stayed and convert to citizen
[12:34 pm, 01/09/2020] +: School also part of it
[12:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Despite conversion, I think there will still be that invisible line between citizenship by birth and citizenship by naturalisation
[12:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: True. Some are indeed like tat
[12:36 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Eg construction 70% local 30% foreigners, then construction company forever not enough workers because no one want to work in construction.
[12:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I want that invisible line to be visible
[12:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Depends on how you think, if you take them as one of us they will be one of us.
If they decide to convert majority do love Singapore. A few black sheep around.
Many of us, are second generation citizen only. My mum was from malaysia naturalize. My wife is from Hk naturalize.
[12:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Well, gahmen tells people to be realistic, but how to convince people to go work at such sectors as grunts?
[12:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We are in part still majority immigrants society
[12:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes but eventually that wears off and a new divide appears
[12:38 pm, 01/09/2020] +: This group has argued countless times about PR before so perhaps only the slightly newer ones here didn't know that that did occur
[12:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We have no issue with this. But many FT bankers are having sky high salaries. We have many locals who can do such jobs.
[12:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: When they decide to give up on their citizen I believe we should give them a chance. PR still have chance to go back but convert citizen most of them are here for good.
[12:40 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Now what about the deep IT roles I mentioned previously? Any locals able to fill in?
[12:41 pm, 01/09/2020] +: For those who have their families here and truly want to have roots here. I think it is OK. But many super high salary PRs are here alone.
[12:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I have more friends in banking industry
[12:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That's why got some pple suggets a cap on PR duration
[12:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: After 10 yrs no convert
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Immediately downgrade back to s pass
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I like that idea actually
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Think WP had talk on in recently in parliament
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If want to reapply , need to interview
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Me 2
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Then prevent pple from gaming the system
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Then PR kinda becomes Probationary Resident hahaha like probationary plate
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I would suggest a countdown mechanism
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 10 yr is very good liao
[12:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: eg after 10 years no convert, next issue PR will valid for 5 years only
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: After interview
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Every year receive notice from gahmen? π€
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: after another 5 years no convert, another 2 years
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: And second renewal is the last one
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: then after that gg
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: become EP or SPass again
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 3 times
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 10, 5 and 2
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: don't say gov no give chances
[12:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: :3
[12:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Damned at EP/S? Or can they still "climb" back up?
[12:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They have exhausted their route to become citizens as of that point in time
[12:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 17 years in total
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: they would have aged by then
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: we want young ppl to become citizens
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: But wouldn't gahmen say some PRs are like a source of income for them like tobacco tax logic?
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: nope
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: iirc PR is a fixed amount
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: can't remember the exact amount but a few hundred thousands
[12:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: What amount are we talking about? I mean their "contribution" to the economy
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: PR are people that like our country to stay and work but if they don’t convert really I don’t see we keep them forever.
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: it's pretty constant and thousands more willing to become PR
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: getting rid of a few is no heartache
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: many more willing to replace them
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yah. I think no matter how old , if they intene to convert we taken
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not like we have great retirement welfare anywayπ
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Most of these type will go back their countries to retire one
[12:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: When you are too old as a PR you are less likely to get converted
[12:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I get the logic now, golden period is when they are young, if not become silver period liao π€
[12:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: yes
[12:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: twenties to early thirties
[12:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: golden period
[12:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: many are just gaming PR status to max their earning in sg and retire in their home countries
[12:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The more likely to have kids and stay.
[12:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: This 10 year thing is a damn good idea and I'm surprised we didn't have another argument on PRs today, pat yourselves on your backs!
[12:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes
[12:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: another issue is DP and LTVP
[12:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: many EP holders bring in their whole village on LTVP and DP
[12:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: they will take up our local resources and fight for space
[12:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Hahahaha
[12:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: it's how the gov manages this that is crucial
[12:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: So that's why we have congestion
[12:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: EP holders are transient workers
[12:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I do think we need citizen that are loyal to the country. We aren’t growing as we have lesser kids.
People that can travel and work and study here being PR. Are people that we want usually. Hence it is our best to convert them to become Singaporean. Rather then let them leave.
[12:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: they shouldn't be have long term plans to bring their whole families here
[12:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: maybe just immediate family
[12:52 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Loyalty is difficult to plant into these guys, think it'll take at least a couple of years
[12:53 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Or it might never happen at all
[12:53 pm, 01/09/2020] + Think quite a few want to bring family but can’t. But if we allow their families in another problem, LTVP members are not always the people we want around.
Culture difference and their mindset is for short term take care of the grandkids kind
[12:53 pm, 01/09/2020] +: You get the point, they are only here for prosperity sake - once we get into any conflict, you think they'll stay? Obviously not
[12:54 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Hence to bind them by citizen ship
[12:54 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Some of them lose a lot by giving up their citizenship of their Home country
[12:54 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Possibly
[12:55 pm, 01/09/2020] +: When we Singaporeans go abroad to work, we respecti and adjust to their culture. But some of these FT are giving high post in Sg, then they start hiring many people from their own countries and change it to their culture
[12:55 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Actually, I think we have been focusing on EP holders and give them PR for too long.
[12:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Why aren't we taking in SPass and Work Permit holders as PRs or citizens
[12:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i know they want PRs to have a certain qualification and salary
[12:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That might be true, but they bring in significant investment during their time, and pay taxes and CPF.
[12:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: but loyal can be earned if ppl from lower income seek social mobility here
[12:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Maybe better for us if they retire elsewhere, no longer earning and don't take up resources.
[12:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: when they feel they move up the social ladder here, they will plant roots here like our forefathers
[12:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: they didn't come here with engineering degrees or IT diplomas
[12:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The problem is on the lower income group are harder to judge. No paper and usually work from SME.
Not really a way to verify their contributions
[12:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: work and tenure
[12:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If not just about earnings though, people may come enticed by the money, but many stay because of the unique environment, racial equality, safe and honest residents, clean and stable city
[12:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if you can provide you are working very hard here, there should be a path for you to secure citizenship here
[12:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Let's remember the values this country was built on, and they are very attractive.
[12:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, there is.
[12:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if you already paid very highly here and no room to grow anymore, why would you want to become a citizen?
[12:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not sure how to judge it.
Back then US as long as you pay 10 years tax, (as an illegal immigrant you get to apply for green card) π€£
[12:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: you will just cash everything out and retire elsewhere where cost of living is cheaper
[1:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They do, it's not a quick path and does encourage people to stay and invest.
[1:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I think we should open our arms for genuine talents. Unfortunately these people have more places to go. We r not their first choice!
[1:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, but thats OK right? They earned and contributed while here, provided investment and skills sharing.
[1:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Singapore is often a stepping stone for them to go elsewhere
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes but also some just decide to stay on
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, and we are fortunate to be that stepping stone, of all the countries in the world
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I think we should have 2 paths. One for talents and the elites. One for hardworking class and loyalty.
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, and thats good too
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: we can't just have one group of new citizens who are elites
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I see the hint of paperwork vs actual contributions, good job
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We already have that.... rich people bring money, hard workers bring investment. Good combination!
[1:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: it'll cause social issues down the road
[1:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i mean two paths to become citizens
[1:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: right now only the elites are PRs
[1:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I volunteered at a citizenship ceremony and met people from many diverse backgrounds
[1:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: rarely we see Spass or Work Permit holders making the PR cut
[1:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Maybe more people should volunteer and get to know out new citizens a bit
[1:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: With that in mind, we should balance the privileges and benefits to this group so that it is fair to the group of people who have roots here or want to have roots here
[1:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 100% agree
[1:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Balance is a great word
[1:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That's what's really needed
[1:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: This is a good debate, but I have to get back to work!
[1:04 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Balance has been a great word all along, it's always between the pros and the cons and has been my recommendation for everything - even if not perfectly balanced, keep it to the middle as much as possible
[1:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: yes and when ppl say no sinkies want to take these low end jobs
[1:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I have meet many during my work in NUS. Many phd wants to stay but guess Singapore not so much quota to keep phd.
[1:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: you will know which segment of the populace we are lacking
[1:05 pm, 01/09/2020] +: You inflict permanent head damage to the useless ones to free up the quota lor π
[1:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if they get the chance to covert to citizen, pls ask them to do so
[1:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: they will free up EP and PR slots for others
[1:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They want but Singapore don’t give lol
[1:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Even local phd find it hard to find job here
[1:09 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Are they researchers?
[1:09 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We need researchers iirc
[1:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Hopefully the Singaporean PMET is better than the foreign ones
[1:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yah... but life science ones..
[1:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: One of them go back working on the covid vaccine trial
[1:23 pm, 01/09/2020] +: China”
[1:29 pm, 01/09/2020] +: omg we need them!
[1:29 pm, 01/09/2020] +: π¨
[1:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: we need ppl like them
[1:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Oh well here not enough jobs
[1:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If not I won’t have left life science as well
[1:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: π
[1:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: π
[1:31 pm, 01/09/2020] +: we need to develop a way to reduce our waste and trash too
[1:31 pm, 01/09/2020] +: yup
[1:31 pm, 01/09/2020] +: lots of potential in life science and chemical science
[1:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if we can dissemble our waste and garbage and reuse them into materials for products
[1:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not so easy bah... I apply to ministry also no reply lol.. get jobs there also hard
[1:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: we can't say we don't have natural resources anymore
[1:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: no more excuses
[1:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: resources are everywhere
[1:32 pm, 01/09/2020] + Singapore has recycling is one of the lowest around π
[1:33 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Partly due to no market for it.
[1:33 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We can recycle but no market to sell.
[1:34 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Example food/organic waste recycle go where? We not enough farms for that
[1:34 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i am on a few project for sustainable fashion but the financial numbers are making it hard. It is so much easier to look the other way. But I am old and stubborn π€.
[1:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Plastic recycle is bad cause we don’t segregate waste and recycle to low end product which we don’t have such market here
[1:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We recycle our trimming from plant quite well. Hence reduce a lot on fertilizer.
[1:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: For our green city
[1:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We need to ramp out agri industry
[1:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Requires a lot more water
[1:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: *up
[1:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We can manage that
[1:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Live stock not possible other than sea fish.
[1:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Veg and mushroom only lol
[1:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fruits cannot also too much land, water and labour
[1:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: And we're back to that old topic hahaha
[1:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: We can focus on these first
[1:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Labour? Why not use farming drones?
[1:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: NEA give out free seeds for us to plant at home
[1:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Those are when you have scale
[1:38 pm, 01/09/2020] +: US farms are like size of TPY or punggol how to fight ?
[1:38 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If too little drones won’t be profitable
[1:38 pm, 01/09/2020] +: People fly plane to put pesticides, 1 person handle a few hectare lol
[1:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Create awareness and help with finding young blood for farming
[1:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If you realise all are veg seed
[1:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I absolutely love the idea
[1:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: it is so Singaporean
[1:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: old Singaporean
[1:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: style
[1:40 pm, 01/09/2020] +: grandmas always have fresh chilli in a pot
[1:40 pm, 01/09/2020] +: organic
[1:40 pm, 01/09/2020] +: kailan too
[1:40 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Few days ago, CNA news show that Singapore has been using recycling machines to transform food waste collected into compost material.
This will be used as fertilizer or building materials.
Government will be buying more such machines to increase recycling.
[1:41 pm, 01/09/2020] +: that's great
[1:41 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They can use to cut cost of fertilizer.. but not as efficient. Need to adjust depending on content.
[1:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: For trees and garden don’t need to care lol
[1:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: this should be offered to MCST
[1:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: ?
[1:43 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Most recycled materials will be used as building materials as we don't have big farms.
[1:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: most condo mcst need to buy fertilizers for landscape use
[1:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Plastic recycle can be used for farming purpose π
[1:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Organic fert take up space
[1:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Hence commercial usually don’t want to use it
[1:44 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Transport cost also higher
[1:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if no monetary incentive from government, mcst sure wont want.
[1:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Free they take lar lol... reduce on cost π€£
[1:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: no need 100% free,
[1:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: just like roof top garden incentive by government also not %
[1:46 pm, 01/09/2020] +: NEA will send out info to mcst on govt incentives
[1:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: then mcst will see whether it is worth it or not
[1:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not 100%
[1:49 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Food waste soon no longer go to landfill. Especially those in food courts, restaurant, hawker centre.
They are recycled.
[1:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Recycled into fertilizers or other stuff?
[1:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Roof top garden we get sunlight but water lose is high. Due to wind and high heat. Need to design to improve the roof top gardening
[1:51 pm, 01/09/2020] +: And energy to pump water to high floor π
[1:53 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Imagine we tell the world:
We have nothing and start with nothing. No natural resources non hinterland nothing. But we have drinking water from our waste water. We have food from our trash and garbage. Our energy comes from the sun, the wind and the sea. We may have nothing but with greatness we now have everything.
[1:54 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lots of research still need to be done for renewable energy. Implementing and fine tuning is still on going. Hopefully we find something that can redefine us.
[1:54 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes
[1:55 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Agree
[1:55 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes
[1:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Theoretically, Fusion power comes from sea water from what I understand more no one has the technology yet.
[1:56 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Food waste are not recycled as food - but as fertilizer or compost material for building materials - according to the news.
[1:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Agree
[1:57 pm, 01/09/2020] + I love this renewable energy talk but it sure is one expensive kind of talk
[1:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: All the “by products” of living can be turned into resources
[1:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lol still too new
[1:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Many things need to fine tune
[1:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: And proud of how far we have come from our humble beginnings
[1:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Carbon dioxide go into plants, urine go into our water, waste go into fertilizer for crops, etc
[1:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: There's too much "greenwashing"
[1:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fusion power isn’t green
[1:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Electromobility is not "clean", it's just another excuse for profit-making
[1:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: There’s some risk actually
[1:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I want our gov to make a vision
[1:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The technological future of Singapore
[1:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They make visions all the time, but it often ends up as misplaced
[2:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Totally just push the pollution to another unseen format that’s all
[2:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It will inspire more youths into applied research roles and hopefully our gov will invest in them
[2:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Exactly, we need to sit down in a focus group to actually talk about this heart to heart
[2:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: How is it green the power plant can atleast clean the air better and regulated and can tax on carbon π€£
[2:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Vision with proper roadmap (no pun intended)
[2:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I'm certain electromobility WTW is still dirtier than fuel, especially for our context
[2:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not include the waste to upgrade good vehicle to green ones
[2:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Electro mobility help with economy... due to higher tech means more money earn
[2:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The battery is a environmental disaster
[2:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It's all about the money, less about the environment as you can see
[2:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: As long as the way we generate power isn’t clean, things aren’t going to change
[2:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: But if clean means lower carbon footprint then we can do much about it
[2:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lots of battery use rare earth metal which is from conflict zones
[2:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Our government is pressured to follow after the world
[2:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Reduce is the only way that is really green
[2:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Otherwise, I'm sure we can make a proper assessment of whether electromobility is actually the right way for us or not
[2:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: yah.... as it is, more studies are needed to see if all this push for reusable stuff in the name of being environmentally friendly is really going to serve it's purported purpose. more energy is actually needed in the manufacturing process. likewise for batteries. what happens when a battery has exhausted its useful life? you still have to dispose of it properly, otherwise you might end up with a bigger problem further down the road
[2:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I remember there's this LCA for batteries, disposal is the last option for this industry actually
[2:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It helps us get a sense of how future economy is... and what future cities need
[2:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: So we can have a feel
[2:09 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I'm of the opinion that Euro 6 can be cleaner than EVs (WTW of course) as long as a high quality of maintenance is assured
[2:10 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i recall that nuclear was supposed to be the cleanest energy, but the risk of fallout (pun intended) makes it an unappealing choice for many countries.
[2:11 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Nuclear is the cleanest and cheapest
[2:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: But the risk is there
[2:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Why japan manufacturing can be cheaper then us
[2:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Is the electricity is very cheap
[2:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Singapore got throw out the ideal for debate before
[2:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: HAH y'all very punny
But yes, when enel proposed nuclear to me I was like are you outta your mind
[2:12 pm, 01/09/2020] +: For me Singapore go nuclear I will migrate π
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Hence Fusion should be the next step
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fusion will be even cleaner
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Or you should stay in this land and remain opposed to what's clearly bad for us!
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i think if Singapore go nuclear, malaysia and indonesia will also migrate π€£
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fusion or fission?
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Right now only fission
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Same for this
[2:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fusion still a century away
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Helium-3
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I understand enough to oppose it
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: May be the key
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Most likely can be found on the moon
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lol when we can go moon like travel
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: No uh they will invade us in no time :P
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Trapped inside the regoliath
[2:14 pm, 01/09/2020] + You mean US and recent China moon landing is fake news? π¨
[2:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: You know we have much say so far...
[2:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Just a matter of will
[2:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i thought people invade only when there's oil?
[2:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not sure haha.. till I know people that go there I will remain skeptic π
[2:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That one USA only lah
[2:16 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fusion is safer. Fission now is gen 3 reactor. gen 3+ & gen 4 reactor is in pipeline.
[2:16 pm, 01/09/2020] +: But really, if we pursue nuclear option, we will die even before the nuclear kills us
[2:16 pm, 01/09/2020] +: You need nuclear enrichment program to have those warheads
[2:16 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Hence I keep advocating Fusion
[2:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: No no not weaponised nuclear, as in because both countries will feel unsafe about it, they will do whatever they can to stop us from pursuing the option even though we clearly have no ill intent
[2:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It could be built in the middle of the sea but you need to transmit the power back inland
[2:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Actually it all depends
[2:17 pm, 01/09/2020] +: There is enough nuclear material to go around for maybe 200 years for sure. At the current usage.
[2:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If it’s successful, we will have enough power to aircondition the entire of Singapore!
[2:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: With usa and china, the timeline might reduced to decades, without fusion, very hard for space mining industry to growth big.(assumption is no alternative energy source discovered)
[2:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Neighbors will buy power from us
[2:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: oohhhh..... and we can build that dome that can keep out the haze! :P
[2:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Nice! ππ»
[2:18 pm, 01/09/2020] +: π
[2:19 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Good to see some science and tech discussion going on here
[2:19 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It’s up to the governments
[2:19 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fusion power might be able to alter the direction of defense industry.
[2:20 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i'm sure! but as you can see, i don't fix my goals very high. π€
[2:20 pm, 01/09/2020] +: All I know is if you can make people visualize it through a video or whatnot, ppl will be inspired or at the very least supportive of the vision
[2:20 pm, 01/09/2020] +2: Energy defense and weaponised might be able to research
[2:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It took decades at least to reach there, lead by the world superpower
[2:21 pm, 01/09/2020] +: USA i means
[2:22 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The only fusion I know is fusion food :P
[2:24 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Cold Fusion for me
[2:24 pm, 01/09/2020] +: If any IT ppl know what that is :3
[2:25 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That might need 5 decades maybe
[2:26 pm, 01/09/2020] +: It need breakthru in advance material, long time after we able to store months of energy in a miniture device
[2:27 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I mean Adobe Coldfusion
[2:27 pm, 01/09/2020] +: :3
[2:27 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not the power generation technology
[2:28 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Never heard of that before
[2:28 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Opps sorry, not the cold or hot fusion
[2:29 pm, 01/09/2020] +: π
[2:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I though is the Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
[2:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That one is one of the movie
[2:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Can’t remember who acted inside it liao
[2:30 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lol
[2:31 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yes, the concept is brought up couple of yrs ago
[2:35 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Imagine jet engine use fusion power to fly
[2:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: One of the problem for energy industry and consumer is the lack of efficiency and effective devices/technology to store energy produce. Without such, addition energy will be generated daily to ensure the grid is supply with buffer energy. With this limitation, there will be a gap to achieve significant green target in energy management
[2:36 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Can probably go even faster than Mach 5
[2:37 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Batteries production are dirty industry unfortunately
[2:38 pm, 01/09/2020] +: New advance material is needed, existing battery design might not able to handle
[2:40 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I think USA company maybe have breakthru in battery development
[2:41 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lucid?
[2:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Nope
[2:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: That's the only western breakthrough that I know of recent
[2:43 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Any high energy production will means that more safety has to be in place.
Sadly Singapore can try such technology as it will destroy us if it fails
[2:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200819144111.htm
[2:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200825110650.htm
[2:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I dont see the indicator we are suitable to try this
[3:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Any breakthroughs takes another 10 to 15 years to stablise and develop to be more effective
[3:40 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 40 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, including 7 imported infections
Singapore reported 40 new COVID-19 cases as of noon on Tuesday (Sep 1), including one in the community and seven imported infections.
This brings the national total to 56,852.
The single community infection is a work pass holder, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its daily preliminary update.
All seven imported cases had been placed on stay-home notice upon arrival in Singapore, said MOH.
Further details will be announced on Tuesday night, the ministry added.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-sep-1-community-imported-workers-moh-13070400
[3:42 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 62,000 workers still to have mandatory COVID-19 test scheduled ahead of deadline
A total of 62,000 workers have yet to be scheduled for their mandatory rostered routine testing for COVID-19 ahead of the screening deadline on Saturday (Sep 5).
Those who fail to do so will not be able to return to work, the Ministry of Manpower (MOM), Building and Construction Authority (BCA), Economic Development Board (EDB) and Health Promotion Board (HPB) said in a joint press release on Tuesday.
To date, about 1,500 employers have yet to log into HPB’s swab registration system to schedule their workers for their rostered routine testing. This is about 8 per cent of the total number of employers who have to do so.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-62000-workers-rostered-routine-testing-sep-5-deadline-13070842
[3:45 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Singapore, Brunei agree on 'green lane' for business and official travel
Residents in Singapore and Brunei can soon travel between the two countries for essential business and official purposes, after both sides agreed to establish a reciprocal green lane.
This was announced in a joint press statement on Tuesday (Sep 1) by the foreign affairs ministries of Singapore and Brunei.
"Both sides have agreed on an arrangement to allow the safe resumption of cross-border movement of a limited number of people, with the necessary safeguards in place to ensure that public health concerns of both sides are addressed," the ministries said.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-brunei-green-lane-travel-covid-19-13071136
[3:52 pm, 01/09/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 1 Sep]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed an additional 40 cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore.
Based on investigations so far, there is 1 case in the community (1 Work Pass holder).
In addition, there are 7 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh1sepupdate
[3:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Parliament: New Progressive Wage Model Mark to be introduced to encourage efforts to lift workers' wages
Companies which voluntarily pay progressive wages and provide job advancement pathways for lower-income workers will be recognised with a Progressive Wage Model (PWM) Mark, as part of efforts to lift wages for lower-income workers, said Manpower Minister Josephine Teo on Tuesday (Sept 1).
Sectors like food services and retail trade have the potential to come on board, which would expand the implementation of PWM - which she described as a "minimum wage plus" - beyond the three sectors where it is currently mandated: cleaning, security and landscaping.
Speaking in Parliament during the debate on the President's Address, Mrs Teo said that for the PWM Mark to work, there must be a broader movement involving the entire society.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/parliament-new-progressive-wage-model-mark-to-be-introduced-to-encourage-wider-adoption-of?xtor=CS3-18&utm_source=STiPhone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-09-01%2015%3A09%3A14
[3:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/09/singaporeans-two-jobs/
?????
[4:04 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I know CS dont allow, not sure about private
[4:04 pm, 01/09/2020] +: private organisations usually depend on the employment contract, but most companies don't allow.
[4:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: but first job already demands that we burn weekends and work 12 hour days (sometimes with no OT), AND still take on a 2nd job for job security?? how wrong is that???
i can understand if it's a situation where an employee has been furloughed because of covid and there seems to be a prohibitive clause in the employment contract. but this should not be expected of workers just in the name of job security.
[4:09 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Acquaintance of mine went for interview at NTUC. they also told him to 'work two jobs' to support his family while 'he was still very young'. Aka don't wanna pay budget for relevant years of exp lo
[4:10 pm, 01/09/2020] +: wow..........
[4:13 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Employers market now.
[4:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if i may tweak this slightly, it's "exploiter's" market now.
[4:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Most employees do not have the sense of social responsibility that older generation are used to
[4:15 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Supply and demand mah
[4:16 pm, 01/09/2020] +: yah, and that's why got that Delaine Lim post lor.....
+65 8100 9739 joined via an invite link
[4:29 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Well said.
[4:33 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Actually this may really resonate w millenials
[4:54 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I think it's great that they 'should' be allowed. But they should not HAVE to.
[4:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Parliament: Employment Pass quota not unthinkable, but probably unwise, says Josephine Teo
Imposing quotas on higher-end foreign professionals on Employment Passes (EPs) is not unthinkable, but such a move would probably be unwise, said Manpower Minister Josephine Teo on Tuesday (Sept 1).
It is much better to use salary requirements to ensure companies can access foreign professionals of the right quality while committing to build up their local staff over time, she told Parliament.
"Without such flexibility, many of the top-quality investments would have been lost to our competitors, and the job opportunities along with them," she said.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/parliament-employment-pass-quota-not-unthinkable-but-probably-unwise-says-…
[5:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: I suggest a split in EP, one with point system and the other in quota system
[5:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Quota system is for generic or general EP holders
[5:02 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Point system one for specific roles or abilities within an organization
[5:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Not for security!
[5:03 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Eg MNC A could have 10 EP with point system cos they are critical to the company and no locals available for it. MNC A will have to justify for EP quota for their other hires.
[5:39 pm, 01/09/2020] +: 'Right to disconnect' from work should be considered, says MP Melvin Yong:: https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/right-disconnect-work-should-be-considered-says-mp-melvin-yong?utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany
[5:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Singaporeans not getting short-changed in financial sector, says Ong Ye Kung who warns against ‘us versus them’ mentality
Singaporeans are not getting short-changed of senior roles at banks, and there are ongoing efforts to create opportunities for locals, Transport Minister Ong Ye Kung said on Tuesday (Sept 1), as he warned against an “us versus them” mentality towards foreigners, which he said could affect Singapore’s standing as a financial centre.
A week later, the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) singled out the sector in its tightening of foreign worker policies, raising the qualifying salary for Employment Pass holders in finance from S$3,900 to S$5,000 — higher than the new S$4,500 qualifying salary set for other sectors.
In his speech on Tuesday, Mr Ong noted that the financial sector is one of Singapore’s most promising sectors, having created about 22,000 new jobs in the last five years, of which 15,000 had gone to Singaporeans.
More: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singaporeans-not-getting-short-end-stick-financial-sector-ong-ye-kung
[6:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The absolute no. of PRs and foreigners in the same space grew by more than 80% over the same period.
"According to MAS’ estimates, the number of senior positions in Singapore’s financial sector grew from 3,900 to 5,900 from 2014 to 2019, while the absolute number of senior jobs taken by Singaporeans increased from 1,700 to 2,600."
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singaporeans-not-getting-short-end-stick-financial-sector-ong-ye-kung
[6:32 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Construction is well know low pay long hours.. and very rough environment.. unless you ok with it. Singaporean can survive more than 2 years is consider very good
[6:33 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So hard ratio will straight away produce results - to employ more locals.
But the trade-off is - foreign investors may move elsewhere.
So we need a wiser approach though - a slower mixed results - but in the long term better outcomes for Singaporeans.
[6:35 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
This is a scenario play - to test the veracity of a policy - whether it reap the desire outcomes or not or instead bring about the opposite outcome.
[6:46 pm, 01/09/2020] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Architect, quantity surveyor, mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, IT professional, foreman, supervisor, banks that offers loan, insurance for workman, etc - that do construction very high pay (that form 30% of local workforce).
[6:47 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Work life balance was a boomer thing , now is work work balance
[6:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Honestly , how to have a family like this
[6:48 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Even if have family, u will never have time for the family
[6:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Birth rates will plummet more and increase the need for even more talent ?
[6:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Been wondering why don't we study more of the western models especially Germany
[6:49 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They have a very strong union that works out a win win solution
[6:50 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Something that ntuc should study
[6:52 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Oh yes
[6:53 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Expensive to raise children in Singapore.
[6:53 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Fast food also not cheap
[6:55 pm, 01/09/2020] +: well, white rice and taugay also can raise a family............ π "har? want fish ah..... that means you not hungry enough". π
[6:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Some public univerities in Germany and France are free
[6:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: The 3 meals thing from Vivo Bala?
[6:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Lol
[6:56 pm, 01/09/2020] +: wait, not sure if still free
[6:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: bcos i know of people who went to Germany and French universities for free
[6:57 pm, 01/09/2020] +: yes, and swiss too. but the counterargument is "higher taxes there".
[6:58 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if it is higher taxes to support the education system, then it should be ok
[6:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: people should not be deprived of education bcos of money
[6:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: so hard to get scholarship in Sg
[6:59 pm, 01/09/2020] +: we say ok, but plenty of people will raise hue and cry lah. "how can increase taxes??!!! what is garmen doing???" you know the usual lah...
[7:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Well it depends if someone is capable, but who is?
[7:00 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if income below xx, no income tax mah
[7:01 pm, 01/09/2020] +: for us i think it's first 20k? on median income of $4500, plenty of people will be hit leh. the pushback will be massive. GST want to increase by 2% also difficult
[7:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Usually the ones who complain are the rich folks
[7:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Same as scholarships
[7:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Many go to pple who don't need it
[7:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Rich enuff to sponsor their own kids
[7:06 pm, 01/09/2020] +: People need it for the $$ but I need it to masuk the industry lol
[7:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Someone said that how's the rich get richer
[7:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They know how to game the system
[7:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Why pay when u can use the public money
[7:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They can hire all the tuition teachers
[7:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: if everyone can get job, got money to get married, buy hdb flat, raise kids (maybe one or two), pay for kids education up to uni, still have money to retire without worry for medical bills, then how much u want to tax, just tax lah
[7:07 pm, 01/09/2020] +: They have the right networks to get the right references
[7:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Odds are stacked against a poor and talented kid for example
[7:08 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Wonder if @Ken had such an experience? Consider me poor and talented but at least I got the scholarship anyway π¬
[7:09 pm, 01/09/2020] +: i thought it's the middle income? the very rich ones structure their finances in a way which is effective. the low income ones are usually the beneficiaries of the govt initiatives funded by the taxes. the middle income tends to be the have to pay tax but feel that they are not getting enough benefit back out of the system.
[7:09 pm, 01/09/2020] +: Yup
No comments:
Post a Comment