REACH 467 - What are your views on the findings from SM Teo’s review into the rental of the Ridout Road bungalows?
(SK)
03 Jul 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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03/07/2023, 1:59 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
In Parliament today (3 July), Senior Minister Teo Chee Hean delivered a Ministerial Statement on the findings from his review of the rental of the 26 Ridout Road and 31 Ridout Road properties by Minister K Shanmugam and Minister Vivian Balakrishnan, respectively.
This Parliament discussion comes after PM Lee directed for the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (CPIB) and SM Teo to conduct reviews on the situation. Both CPIB and SM Teo’s reports were published on 28 June 2023.
๐ฌ *What are your views on the findings from SM Teo’s review into the rental of the Ridout Road bungalows?*
In SM Teo’s Ministerial Statement, he noted that:
1️⃣ *No evidence of corruption or criminal wrongdoing in the rental of the Ridout Road properties.*
SM Teo said that CPIB had found no evidence of corruption or criminal wrongdoing in the rental of Ridout Road properties by the two ministers. Neither were corrupt intent or any inducements uncovered.
2️⃣ *Both Ministers and the public officers, as well as private sector intermediaries involved, had conducted themselves properly in the two rental transactions.*
SM Teo said that Ministers, public officers and private sector intermediaries were aware of their duty to declare and avoid any conflict of interest and took appropriate steps to prevent any potential or actual conflict of interest from arising.
Nonetheless, SM Teo announced that the Public Service Division (PSD) will work with relevant ministries and statutory boards such as HDB, JTC, NEA and SLA to introduce a standard declaration requirement for selected groups of officers who have access to, or are involved in, leasing and valuation matters. PM will also review declarations required for property transactions for Ministers and PAP MPs.
3️⃣ *Both rental transactions had kept to Singapore Land Authority's (SLA) prevailing guidelines.*
SM Teo said that the rental of the two properties did not deviate from prevailing SLA guidelines for renting out black-and-white bungalows for residential purposes. He added that both properties were within the maximum allowable tenancy of 3+3+3 years for residential properties rented out by SLA or SLA’s managing agents at any one time.
๐ *The Parliament discussion on Ridout Road is still ongoing. Watch the discussion live here:* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn7sGrmdpTw ๐
๐๐ผ *ST live summary on the Parliament discussion* https://www.straitstimes.com/ridout-road-bungalow-rentals-parliament-live-blog
๐๐ผ *Findings from CPIB and SM Teo's reviews*
https://www.pmo.gov.sg/Newsroom/Rental-of-State-Properties-at-Ridout-Road-by-Min-Shanmugam-and-Min-Vivian-Balakrishnan
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03/07/2023, 2:05 pm - +Rama: Sugar-coated
03/07/2023, 2:07 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: in yesterday's sunday times, the following was reported:
03/07/2023, 2:08 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: <Media omitted>
03/07/2023, 2:08 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: is ok to ask your Civil service staff to search for personal home listings for you? i know for some companies, there are personal assistants. does such thing exist in the civil service?
03/07/2023, 2:13 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: even though Shanmugam asked to be recluse from the approval process, will his lower level staff dare to ask for higher rates knowing that it is for their big big boss?
as mentioned before, even though it is legal, the optics is bad. should not get into this compromising situation and cause tongues to wag.
03/07/2023, 2:14 pm - +Poh S Lim: It is all about public perception.
Though a thorough investigation has been conducted and reported, all parties involved appears to be organs of government. There could very well be no improprieties, but does this dispel all lingering suspicions?
Maybe an ombudsman idea would not have been too bad…?
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/k-shanmugam-leon-perera-independent-ombudsman-2536866?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_03072023_cna
03/07/2023, 2:20 pm - +Rama: Shanmugam refutes post suggesting he left event after 5 minutes to avoid ridout road questions
Follow us on Telegram for the latest updates: Shanmugam Refutes “Active Efforts To Spread Falsehoods” About Him Leaving Chong Pang Event Early On Saturday (1 July), Minister for Home Affairs and Law K Shanmugam posted on his social media accounts in response to one alleging that he left a Chong Pang event “after five minutes”.
https://news.nestia.com/detail_share/11231855?media_type=1&invite_code=000562032624&nestiaShareChannel=whatsapp
03/07/2023, 2:23 pm - +Ken: So next time each event he has to time and report how long he is there? ๐คฃ
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Wonder will these be a problem whereby:-
1. Minister of national development cannot buy house - because it will invite accusation of privilege information when they buy houses.
2. Minister of finance cannot do banking because they will invite accusation of privilege banking services.
3. Minister of transport cannot buy cars because they will have privilege information of Coe.
4. Minister of health cannot go hospital and polyclinic - they will have privilege healthcare services.
5. Minister of law cannot be presided by local judges - because judges will be seen as not impartial.
6. Minister of home affairs cannot be investigated by local police because local police will be seen as not impartial.
End of the day, don't be ministers.
Let the country run by its own into abyss.
Then no ministers will be accused of not treading the high moral ground.
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - +Rama: A New Abbreviated Meaning.
CPIB stands for:
*Corrupt Politicians In Bungalows*
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - +Rama: The plot is thickening! The contract to renovate Ridout properties was awarded by SLA to the company that Shanmugam’s son is the CEO! But you bet he got the job on merit.
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - +Rama: Martin See
Here's how the script will be written.
Parliament.
K. Shanmugam will gloat about how he had followed all procedures and had not put a foot wrong. He will rub it in the faces of his critics. He must do this as a clarion call for his PAP online trolls and shadowy goons to step up the intimidation, disruption and discrediting of "oppie forces", particularly targeting Kenneth Jeyaretnam, and thereby creating a chilling effect on all discussions on Ridout.
Vivian Balakrishnan will take a different and softer trajectory. He will be "humbled" by the whole investigation and will pledge to work harder to be more upfront about such matters. He may shed a tear or pause to make some convulsion of choked emotion. Vivian's performance will be more important than Shan's. He will attempt to win back the PAP supporters who had lost some trust over this Ridout matter. This is a crucial component of any gaslighting process - to offer a sweetener to heal the trauma (so that the cycle can repeat itself in the future).
Teo Chee Hean will follow through on Shanmugam's gloat. He will congratulate himself and the PAP - that "the highest standards of integrity" had been adhered to.
Edwin Tong will then follow through on Vivian's pledges. He acknowledges that certain procedures could be tighten to ensure such public outcry will never happen again.
There will be no offer from Shanmugam or Vivian to make any restitutions whatsoever. No offer to compensate rental according to current market rate; no offer to terminate lease. Doing so will only invite accusations of a guilty conscience.
Near the end of the day, PAP MPs will throw softball questions whereby the proceedings will be halted by Speaker Tan Chuan Jin, who declares that enough time has been spent on this personal matter and that Parliament will move on to more pressing national issues the next day.
Parliamentarians will exit wearing nonchalant expressions. Just another day in the office.
26 and 31 Ridout Road
Shanmugam and Vivian's cars will drive by their respective Gurkha guardhouses into their mansions. They will enjoy sumptuous dinners prepared by their wives and maids. Their children will share some jokes and laughter reverberates - without the rustling of trees, the hissing of snakes and the buzzing of mosquitoes.
The End.
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - +Rama: <Media omitted>
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - +Rama: <Media omitted>
03/07/2023, 2:24 pm - +Rama: ๐คท♂️๐
03/07/2023, 2:25 pm - +Ken: It is sensitive information and requires many clearance… if not from government then from where? If don’t trust then have to change…
Who can be trusted with classified information. Of such
03/07/2023, 2:27 pm - +Rama: "The PAP has lost its moral compass.." Someone say, do you agree ?
Here’s why.
A lot of people do struggle to make ends meet. Your grab drivers, riders.. A lot of them relatively young, have some qualifications, but still working in those tough jobs.
And not forgetting those elderly who are working at hawker centres, airports, as labourers, cleaners.. getting paid around $1.8k a month and not having proper savings, can’t retire.
Our Finance Minister has been saying the country would not have enough money to cater more healthcare and infrastructure in the coming years. Hence, raising the GST is absolutely necessary, even though it causes prices to shoot up and inflicting more miseries on the average people.
And yet, the SLA can easily spend more than 600 million dollars public fund to renovate a house and then rent it out to a minister.
The SLA spent more than one million dollars in total of public fund to renovate two houses in order to rent them to two ministers.
I’m sorry but there’s seriously a moral bankruptcy here…
And meantime, SIA which took hundreds of millions in public fund to survive the covid crisis.. has now reported huge profit and paying its CEO nearly 7 MILLION dollars in annual salary.
It was the millions in public fund that helped tide them through covid, now, why hasn’t it thought of paying back those money?
But instead paying its own CEO 7 MILLION DOLLARS as salary?
SIA is majority owned by the pap government.. and had received hundreds of millions over the covid years.
There really is a serious, sickening moral issue.. right here in Singapore.
Don’t people see..?
They had departed from the Party’s manifesto: creating jobs for the people to earn a living to put food on the table, affordable housing healthcare and social welfare: Fundamental Duty of Government.
03/07/2023, 2:27 pm - +Ken: Many politicians have kids in high places.. be it connection or their school.. sure better then general public.
Of course people also consider their background when hiring them as well. As well as the connection they bring.
03/07/2023, 2:28 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
7. PM, DPM lagi worst - cannot do anything at all - because he will be accused of privilege information in housing, Coe, healthcare, law etc etc
03/07/2023, 2:32 pm - +Ken: Pretty sure, Google and check the surrounding location how much is it now to rent. Compare with the ones they have reported in the news.
People can make judgments. Even if parliament push it away. General public if the interest is strong enough, it will continue to be a topic. And sure enough upcoming GE will be a target.
03/07/2023, 2:32 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Witch hunt at its worst!
03/07/2023, 2:32 pm - +Rama: Agree
03/07/2023, 2:32 pm - +Ken: They don’t face it now will face it later in the GE.
We are not all sheep.
03/07/2023, 2:35 pm - +Ken: Report is report. Educate people here have eyes to see. And make educated guess, since it is not clear enough.
03/07/2023, 2:35 pm - +Rama: Unless cotton comes from them!
03/07/2023, 2:36 pm - +Ken: Why it has becomes a topic here… sure enough… it has created enough buzz online
03/07/2023, 2:37 pm - +Rama: Yes
03/07/2023, 2:37 pm - +Ken: I didn’t even known of this issue… till REACH posted ๐คฃ
03/07/2023, 2:38 pm - +Ken: After I read tsk tsk.. ๐ don’t know what to say ๐
03/07/2023, 2:38 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then all those civil servants who work in LTA cannot buy cars because they have privilege information to Coe.
All civil servants work in HDB cannot buy HDB flat because they have privilege information.
All healthcare workers cannot see doctors in polyclinics and hospitals because they will be accused of special privileges.
Then why work in civil service?
Witch hunt getting more and more ridiculous. <This message was edited>
03/07/2023, 2:39 pm - +Rama: Be aware
03/07/2023, 2:40 pm - +Ken: I don’t watch local news.. usually not relevant or informative..
03/07/2023, 2:41 pm - +Rama: On social media at least via sg news
03/07/2023, 2:43 pm - +Ken: There are rules to prevent abuse of information… what is within reasons really depends on the top.
One issue at a time… you pull string to all related events will blur out the current situation.
The way that is presented, is not thoughtful. And how people will perceived the information. Example like SLA spend how much on making it good ๐
It is fact, but why and how come value was high. Don’t taste good after reading. Not sensitive enough in putting out the information.
03/07/2023, 2:43 pm - +Rama: Agree
03/07/2023, 2:43 pm - +Ken: How general day to day people feel after reading such information?
03/07/2023, 2:44 pm - +Rama: Exactly!
03/07/2023, 2:44 pm - +Ken: The person writing the report just didn’t have empathy when putting out the report
03/07/2023, 2:46 pm - +Rama: Possibly
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Which report?
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - +~L: Yea, doesn't look good for the ministers to investigate themselves. Maybe an independent investigation would have been better.
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - +Ken: CPIB one lor
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - +Ken: All facts… hahaha but how you read between the lines
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - +Rama: Yeah
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - +~L: Is this backed up by evidence? Or just a forwarded message with no fact checking? Best to include links to substantiated sources.
03/07/2023, 2:47 pm - +Ken: Who to task? Big enough to be credible?
03/07/2023, 2:48 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Cpib is an independent investigation.
03/07/2023, 2:49 pm - +Ken: Technically credible and able to perform the task.
WP suppose to be able? Since he opposition leader?
03/07/2023, 2:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: “I did not enter public service to maximise earnings”: Shanmugam
Concluding, Mr Shanmugam said he is sorry that parliament’s time has been taken up to address issues which arose out of a personal decision to rent a home.
“I will answer any question you have because it is important that we do the right thing and to hold ourselves up to high standards of integrity,” he added.
“I did not enter public service to maximise my earnings, or try and pay less than I should, to the State.”
03/07/2023, 2:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: He has own high standards level and integrity than take public
03/07/2023, 2:50 pm - +Rama: I'm not quite sure
03/07/2023, 2:50 pm - +TD: Lol. High standards yes, integrity is not a word that should be applied to Sham.
Go ask any lawyer
03/07/2023, 2:50 pm - +Rama: I agree with him
03/07/2023, 2:51 pm - +Frankie Wee: There is no right or wrong their money earn maximum big spent
03/07/2023, 2:51 pm - +TD: Given his well known track record of playing with the office help
03/07/2023, 2:51 pm - +Ken: Yah think Shanmugam also heart pain ๐
03/07/2023, 2:51 pm - +Rama: Really
03/07/2023, 2:51 pm - +Ken: This message was deleted
03/07/2023, 2:52 pm - +TD: not exactly unkown.... it's like an open secret.
03/07/2023, 2:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: Did we vote them PAP how much big spent $$$ collect tax from ppl
03/07/2023, 2:52 pm - +Ken: This event make many ministers don’t want people know where they stay lol…
03/07/2023, 2:52 pm - +Rama: ๐คท♂️
03/07/2023, 2:54 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Very simple, ministers give up their office and let the country run by itself - since people so unhappy with what the ministers are doing.
Else no matter what the ministers do - they won't be able to please high moral people.
03/07/2023, 2:57 pm - +Ken: Singapore already consider much easier… no media go around following them and dig their every move.
When in office behave and be the role you need to be. I don’t complaint about their high salary cause they do their job.
Job include being the role they have to be, include moral and pleasant to the people.
03/07/2023, 2:58 pm - +TD: He has every right to rent whatever he want, and quite sure he went though all the proper processes.
And he can afford it. just that the optics are bad.
But he never stuck me as one who cared too much about optics.
03/07/2023, 2:59 pm - +Ken: Oh well earn so much cannot spend… who want to work hard
03/07/2023, 2:59 pm - +Ken: But yah the optics don’t look good… but they have to play their role… if not be PS don’t need to be public face.
03/07/2023, 3:00 pm - +Ken: Once choose to be the face, you have to do your job all the way. Till you retire. ๐
03/07/2023, 3:00 pm - +TD: Sometimes like Mr Tharman - cannot retire also - kena arrow as president =P
03/07/2023, 3:01 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If shangmugan leave office - wonder will terrorism, drug abuse, and law breakers have a good time.
If Vivian leave office, I think our relationship with the world and benefits we reap from the world will diminish or not.
These 2 are our heavyweight ministers - and if there are no wrongdoing - don't witch hunt.
Because it will hurt us more than it hurt them.
03/07/2023, 3:01 pm - +Ken: He poor thing.. ๐ in order to make sure no one want to run
03/07/2023, 3:02 pm - +Ken: They have to have strong heart lor… if not like our transport minister ๐
03/07/2023, 3:03 pm - +Ken: Keyboard warrior can be really abusive ๐
03/07/2023, 3:03 pm - +Ken: He go up.. I totally no question walk over I also accept ๐คฃ
03/07/2023, 3:05 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Probably no one knows that shangmugan has intercept and prevented a few home terrorism on the verge of eruption in Singapore.
Thanks to him, we survive and come out unscath.
If we sabo him - be prepared for catastrophe.
03/07/2023, 3:08 pm - +Rama: I believe so
03/07/2023, 3:08 pm - +Rama: Yup
03/07/2023, 3:08 pm - +Rama: Definitely
03/07/2023, 3:09 pm - +Rama: ๐
03/07/2023, 3:09 pm - +TD: Sham or the home team?
I'll put that work down to more the boots on the ground than credit it to sham.
Or maybe ISD or SID instead.
Quite... childish to attribute that to sham.
03/07/2023, 3:09 pm - +Rama: Don't forget MSD
03/07/2023, 3:12 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then you don't know how the ministry operates.
03/07/2023, 3:12 pm - +TD: Really - I dont? Or you're thinking sham is a superman
03/07/2023, 3:14 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If ministers don't network with foreign countries and get cooperation.
If ministers don't work across ministries with other cabinet ministers - you think individual units can get everything going?
03/07/2023, 3:14 pm - +TD: He's a brilliant Min-Law. But to attribute all the work of ISD/MSD etc to him..... thats really childish and logically unsound.
03/07/2023, 3:14 pm - +Rama: Yes
03/07/2023, 3:15 pm - +Timothy Low: No one is irreplaceable, not even in political office (?)
03/07/2023, 3:15 pm - +Rama: Yes
03/07/2023, 3:16 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
You think counter terrorism only isd MSD?
How about foreign affairs, cyberIT, civil defense, ADT, community service to detect community terrorists, how about religious harmony if terrorism erupt etc etc.
No heavyweight ministers can?
03/07/2023, 3:16 pm - +Timothy Low: If the entire safety of Singapore is dependable on one minister, I worry for the future of Singapore
03/07/2023, 3:17 pm - +Rama: A vast combination of people and government agencies
03/07/2023, 3:17 pm - +TD: You're making my point for me. So many people involved. And yet it's all due to sham? Lol
03/07/2023, 3:18 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I work in projects with MHA and other Ministries for more than a decade - and how the minister organise the defense against terrorism is interlocking, water tight and cut across multi ministries and shangmugan leadership is invaluable.
03/07/2023, 3:18 pm - +Timothy Low: Ministers are not gods. They are here to serve the people. Don’t idolise them.
03/07/2023, 3:18 pm - +Rama: Thanks Danny
03/07/2023, 3:18 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If shangmugan don't lead, who lead?
03/07/2023, 3:19 pm - +Rama: Exactly!?
03/07/2023, 3:20 pm - +Thomas: We don't idolise them but will look at their competency , integrity and honesty.
03/07/2023, 3:20 pm - +TD: Lol. I really wonder.
Everything I hear from the CS I know is that they just want the political heads to get out of the way so that they can do their work
Leadership my ass.
03/07/2023, 3:21 pm - +Thomas: If you don't have good CEO , do you think a company will work ?
03/07/2023, 3:21 pm - +Timothy Low: Anti terrorism should be a team effort, and not dependable on one single person alone. If a minister makes himself indispensable, then he or she is not successful as a leader in developing the next generation of leaders
03/07/2023, 3:21 pm - +Thomas: It is not indepensible, it is a leader forsight, vision and get team to work and things done. Kick butts if needed
03/07/2023, 3:21 pm - +Rama: Nope
03/07/2023, 3:22 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So no leadership, everything run by itself - all go haywire?
03/07/2023, 3:22 pm - +TD: Company yes. Civil service no.
Look at the amount of incompetents and yet the CS still manages to get things done.
03/07/2023, 3:22 pm - +Sam: I am seeing a lot of messages that trying to sow distrust against our government and civil service. Are the originators of these messages are ordinary citizens, opposition parties or foreign actors? If you doubt the integrity of our ministers, our government and our public service, after they serve us so long and produce results that so many other countries try to emulate, I feel sad for the country
03/07/2023, 3:22 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then in war, no need general.
Let the units run by itself.
03/07/2023, 3:23 pm - +Thomas: CS is still a company , there are many unit of people in there and need leaders. You thing all policies and things will magically work ?
03/07/2023, 3:23 pm - +TD: Your perm secs fake one ah?
03/07/2023, 3:23 pm - +Rama: They hide their incompetence from the public
03/07/2023, 3:23 pm - +Timothy Low: Usually it’s the CS doing all the job
03/07/2023, 3:23 pm - +Thomas: Who make the final decision ?
03/07/2023, 3:24 pm - +TD: You haven't heard of ministers being overruled or torpedoed by their perm secs? Go look at GYs time in mica
03/07/2023, 3:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oh yes
Look at overseas countries where their politicians change hands and their civil service run by itself.
See what happens, currency value go down, inflation go up, no leaders can secure benefits with overseas countries, economy in doldrums, food shortage .
Is that what we want in Singapore?
03/07/2023, 3:25 pm - +TD: Strawman arguement as usual
03/07/2023, 3:25 pm - +Thomas: Policies are make by Government , CS implement them
03/07/2023, 3:26 pm - +Thomas: If only CS , they will be a headless chicken
03/07/2023, 3:26 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore is doing very well in governance.
This is a fact.
Reported by world competitive body and other world bodies.
This is a fact.
Indisputable.
03/07/2023, 3:26 pm - +Rama: Agree
03/07/2023, 3:27 pm - +KL: I think cos since 2011 till now the lower population hardship was not bring up to the higher management thus causing today issue when they realise it abit too big
03/07/2023, 3:27 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
03/07/2023, 3:27 pm - +TD: No one argues this. But to attribute everything and the sun rising to the ministers is chilsish
03/07/2023, 3:27 pm - +TD: *childish
03/07/2023, 3:27 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore government is world ranking.
03/07/2023, 3:28 pm - +Rama: Agree
03/07/2023, 3:30 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And Singapore government is make up of :-
Ministers (political appointees) - the steward of public service
+
Civil Service (the administrative function of public service)
03/07/2023, 3:30 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
+ parliamentary MPs.
03/07/2023, 3:33 pm - +Thomas: Our children are exposed to Western concept of "democracy" where each party will sow distrust through hyperbole, disinformation and other methods against each other. That's why now USA is so divided in the society . If this GOP and Donald Trump won the election, we can possibly see USA sliding into authoritarian type. This is the danger.
03/07/2023, 3:44 pm - +Thomas: Now they are sowing distrust against the Supreme Court because of ruling they don't like. It is one of their strong pillar of democracy . If this is corrupted , this pillar is gone , I am not sure if US society can be peaceful. Note that Russian trying to influence their election in 2020 and succeeded in 2016 where Donald was elected. If these are done against Singapore , we don't need one cycle election. A few years , we are done for
03/07/2023, 3:48 pm - +Thomas: So the son of Shanmugum has not contract with SLA. Those information has no basis , and a lot of Singaporean falls for this type of disinformation propagated by oppie , foreign actors ?
03/07/2023, 3:49 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Ministers are the final decision makers in all policies - develop jointly between ministers and the civil service.
Ministers are the stewards of all government policies and make the policies into law in the parliament.
Don't mistaken that civil service is the one.
If a bright Minister is not helming the ministry but a mediocre one, I think Singapore will be in serious trouble because no matter how bright the civil service is, good policies cannot make it to the parliament.
Just look at trump that change all the civil service personnel that don't do his biding.
03/07/2023, 3:52 pm - +TD: I really don't know why this is an issue though. Sham is entitled to rent what he rents.
He went though the process. He's overpaying somewhat.
Optics are bad. but nothing wrong with it. KJ is just stirring.
03/07/2023, 3:52 pm - +TD: Given how moronic some of them are - calling them bright is more than a stretch.
03/07/2023, 3:57 pm - +Thomas: Facebook Kuanyewism is agitating against Shanmugum . I am just curious who is behind this . This is the exact method where Russian Troll use simplify catchy messaging to attract and agitate. They use it against, Hilary Clinton in FB in 2016 and I have seen a number of those and I find it ridiculous but somehow , it does influence the election.
03/07/2023, 3:58 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Such as?
03/07/2023, 3:59 pm - +Rama: Our government is aware for some time now
03/07/2023, 3:59 pm - +Rama: Possibly
03/07/2023, 3:59 pm - +Rama: Polarised society
03/07/2023, 4:01 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That means you are brighter than them.
You must be earning more than the ministers and doin very well to pass such comments. <This message was edited>
03/07/2023, 4:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Why wonder why both of them rental out the house by SLA instead of owned a house.
LKY make mentioned everyone can owned a flat instead rental HDB.
03/07/2023, 4:08 pm - +Rama: Did they give up the house their previously owned!?
03/07/2023, 4:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Maybe
03/07/2023, 4:09 pm - +Rama: Find it odd though!
03/07/2023, 4:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: But their salary very high pay how it can be rental
03/07/2023, 4:09 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
When world bodies rate our government world class - yet your assessment is moronic.
Wow.
03/07/2023, 4:09 pm - +Rama: Another grey area!?
03/07/2023, 4:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/building-on-mr-lee-kuan-yews-legacy-of-housing-a-nation
03/07/2023, 4:10 pm - +Rama: It shows how narrow minded our opposition is!
03/07/2023, 4:10 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/singapores-star-banker-piyush-gupta-creates-succession-dilemma-dbs
Singapore’s star banker Piyush Gupta creates succession dilemma for DBS.
03/07/2023, 4:10 pm - +Rama: Any local competent!?
03/07/2023, 4:11 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore top banker.
Yet finding another talented successor is extremely difficult.
03/07/2023, 4:11 pm - +Rama: Hope we can find a female
03/07/2023, 4:16 pm - +Rama: Any grey area!
03/07/2023, 4:19 pm - +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/shanmugam-says-he-rented-ridout-bungalow-ahead-of-family-home-s-sale-did-not-make-money-from-rental?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg
03/07/2023, 4:20 pm - +Rama: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ridout-road-properties-officers-privileged-information-declaration-renting-government-sm-teo-3602056?cid=telegram_cna_social_28112017_cna
03/07/2023, 4:21 pm - +Rama: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/ridout-road-shanmugam-vivian-explain-rent-renovation-2203806?cid=telegram_tg-single_social-free_26012019_today
03/07/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So be careful don't be exploited by opposition.
Do critical thinking.
Opposition has nothing to lose.
We have plenty to lose, if a good government fall.
Then we only have ourselves to blame if we don't protect our homeland.
03/07/2023, 4:22 pm - +Rama: Agree
03/07/2023, 4:22 pm - +TD: This message was deleted
03/07/2023, 4:23 pm - +TD: Really - do you need a list?
Amy Khor's retarded war on plastics?
Jo Teo's constant gaffs?
Chee Hong Tat insulting of industry leaders to their faces?
this is just off the top of my head and I'm not trying hard.
You must be really blind and deaf to ignore all these
03/07/2023, 4:23 pm - +TD: childish
03/07/2023, 4:23 pm - +Rama: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/monetary-authority-singapore-lawrence-wong-replaces-tharman-shanmugaratnam-chairman-3602051
03/07/2023, 4:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oh you are expecting a saint with flawless showmanship.
03/07/2023, 4:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
But still, Singapore government is world class.
03/07/2023, 4:25 pm - +TD: Don't disagree on this
03/07/2023, 4:26 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Good that you agree.
03/07/2023, 4:26 pm - +TD: I'm expecting something decent - not intellectually lazy.
Amy Khor is an epic example. Intellectually lazy and dishonest.
03/07/2023, 4:27 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Other than the plastic bags that I don't agree, I give high marks to environment Ministry including nea - who did a good jobs in many areas.
03/07/2023, 4:31 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And disagreement with how the plastic bags are implemented doesn't means moronic.
Because carbon credits is a very complex topic and the world is still not yet ready for international exchange.
My suggestion has gone ahead multiple steps whereby the current plastic bags charge is a low hanging fruit.
I won't be surprised that nea will finally adopt carbon credits for plastic bags when the world body and business world is ready.
03/07/2023, 4:37 pm - +TD: It's totally moronic in Singapore's context.
1) Amy khor herself said less than 4 years ago that there is no plans to ban plstic bags and that it does not make sense in Singapore's context.
2) we burn and landfill everything. Nothing kills the turtles. Flotsam @ East Cost is mostly from the anchorage or our neighbours.
3) Alternative to plastics especially plastic bags have a heavier environmental footprint than our plastics bags, especially whole of life.
NTU has a 2020 paper on this.
4) this whole supermarket plastic bag tax is just forcing the cost down to consumers, and not helping the environment in the first place.
NTUC has always wanted to do this and now they finally managed to lobby the legislation into place to force the other big chains to follow suit.
For a Minister of the Enviroment to back this, it is intellectually lazy and moronic.
03/07/2023, 4:52 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Actually, is my close friend in my private chat group that proposed carbon credits.
Correction.
03/07/2023, 4:55 pm - +lesli: Coming back to topic...new updates:
‘Leave my family alone’: Shanmugam says allegation of his son awarded SLA contract for Ridout Road properties ‘utterly false’
https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/leave-my-family-alone-shanmugam-says-allegation-his-son-awarded-sla-contract-ridout-road-edwin-tong-livspace
03/07/2023, 5:00 pm - +TD: Getting out of hand. Sham did nothing wrong.
03/07/2023, 5:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: How about black and white paper didn’t he read and realised
03/07/2023, 5:05 pm - +Rama: Let's move on
03/07/2023, 5:06 pm - +Rama: ๐คท♂️
03/07/2023, 5:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livspace
03/07/2023, 5:13 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
In Parliament today (3 July), Senior Minister Teo Chee Hean delivered a Ministerial Statement on the findings from his review of the rental of the 26 Ridout Road and 31 Ridout Road properties by Minister K Shanmugam and Minister Vivian Balakrishnan, respectively.
This Parliament discussion comes after PM Lee directed for the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (CPIB) and SM Teo to conduct reviews on the situation. Both CPIB and SM Teo’s reports were published on 28 June 2023.
๐ฌ *What are your views on the findings from SM Teo’s review into the rental of the Ridout Road bungalows?*
In SM Teo’s Ministerial Statement, he noted that:
1️⃣ *No evidence of corruption or criminal wrongdoing in the rental of the Ridout Road properties.*
SM Teo said that CPIB had found no evidence of corruption or criminal wrongdoing in the rental of Ridout Road properties by the two ministers. Neither were corrupt intent or any inducements uncovered.
2️⃣ *Both Ministers and the public officers, as well as private sector intermediaries involved, had conducted themselves properly in the two rental transactions.*
SM Teo said that Ministers, public officers and private sector intermediaries were aware of their duty to declare and avoid any conflict of interest and took appropriate steps to prevent any potential or actual conflict of interest from arising.
Nonetheless, SM Teo announced that the Public Service Division (PSD) will work with relevant ministries and statutory boards such as HDB, JTC, NEA and SLA to introduce a standard declaration requirement for selected groups of officers who have access to, or are involved in, leasing and valuation matters. PM will also review declarations required for property transactions for Ministers and PAP MPs.
3️⃣ *Both rental transactions had kept to Singapore Land Authority's (SLA) prevailing guidelines.*
SM Teo said that the rental of the two properties did not deviate from prevailing SLA guidelines for renting out black-and-white bungalows for residential purposes. He added that both properties were within the maximum allowable tenancy of 3+3+3 years for residential properties rented out by SLA or SLA’s managing agents at any one time.
๐ *The Parliament discussion on Ridout Road is still ongoing. Watch the discussion live here:* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn7sGrmdpTw ๐
๐๐ผ *ST live summary on the Parliament discussion* https://www.straitstimes.com/ridout-road-bungalow-rentals-parliament-live-blog
๐๐ผ *Findings from CPIB and SM Teo's reviews*
https://www.pmo.gov.sg/Newsroom/Rental-of-State-Properties-at-Ridout-Road-by-Min-Shanmugam-and-Min-Vivian-Balakrishnan
03/07/2023, 5:19 pm - +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/sla-acted-properly-in-renting-out-ridout-bungalows-to-ministers-on-reasonable-basis-edwin-tong?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg
03/07/2023, 5:21 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: I think thx should be to the civil servants who discovered those terrorist plots. I doubt that Shanmugam alone has enough time to sift thru the events. He probably only made the executive decision to give team the go ahead to start prosecution. It’s the perm sec and his team that do the heavy lifting.
03/07/2023, 5:22 pm - +Rama: All a effort of ISD/SID/MSD
03/07/2023, 5:34 pm - +Singapore Maid Agency: Well I can only say that they are pro in doing it step by step carefully however ไธ็ฉๆ ไธไธ just like the Keppel issues it’s a matter of time and who are able to dig out the “TRUTH”
03/07/2023, 5:38 pm - +Thomas: But if the execution goes wrong. His head will be chopped. That’s the burden
03/07/2023, 5:49 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If shangmugan don't have leadership skills to plan and work with the civil service to integrate with foreign intelligence services, identify all the right agencies such as govtech, isd, MSD, community service, foreign affairs, adt from mindef, prison, police, scdf etc cover all possible loopholes and angles - you think individual units can cross inter ministries, stat board, special units, and foreign government?
You think civil servants has such power, seriously?
03/07/2023, 5:52 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
All Ministries, stat board and special units are setup by Ministers - not civil service.
Civil servants are appointed to this units by ministers and they have to meet the specific goals, missions and objectives in which the units are formed as plan by the minister. <This message was edited>
03/07/2023, 5:55 pm - +Rama: Our ministers don't just swallow all security threats from rank and file no matter how authentic. They have great foresight to sieve through even the slightest doubt with close contacts of heads of foreign intelligence and security services
03/07/2023, 5:55 pm - +Rama: Yes
03/07/2023, 5:56 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Eg. Adf (Army Deployment Force) are setup by Ministers (specifically to combat terrorism).
Cyberunit against scam are setup by Minister.
They appoint civil service to run.
If the ministers have no foresight to plan this, you expect civil service to invent those units? <This message was edited>
03/07/2023, 5:56 pm - +Rama: Nope
03/07/2023, 5:58 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Eg. Govtech and imda are formed and broken into 2 from Ida.
Minister plan this, not civil servants.
CEO of these 2 units are then appointed by the minister to meet the vision of the Minister.
03/07/2023, 5:59 pm - +Rama: Wife & I rented Ridout Road property to keep extended family under one roof: Vivian Balakrishnan
https://sg.news/?p=1061951
03/07/2023, 6:03 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then ask yourself why not let police anti-terrorism team handle domestic terrorist, why need mindef Idt?
Because home terrorism abroad are soldiers with heavy weapons and explosive.
Can MHA perm sec setup soldiers and pull resources from mindef?
Obviously not.
Only Ministers have the foresight and muscle to form adt to fight terrorism.
If heavy armour column are needed, if airforce are needed, if demolition team are needed, ministers can activate.
You think seriously without minister - everyone will be safe?
03/07/2023, 6:04 pm - +Rama: Our security services have to overlap and interlap due to the nature of our country
03/07/2023, 6:04 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Also foreign intelligence don't just come from foreign police forces, it also comes from military intelligence.
Do you think foreign military ministry will talk to our perm sec in MHA?
03/07/2023, 6:08 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So Singaporeans have to be careful not to let opposition and their supporters pull down our political appointees especially our Ministers and top civil servants.
You may not know the extent and the depth of the harm that cause to our country.
One day we may even pay with our lives if we let opposition has their way.
By that time it will be too late to regret - because our country has no buffer and room for error.
We are only a tiny red dot.
03/07/2023, 6:11 pm - +Rama: I believe we have the equivalent of a national security Council comprising senior law enforcement officers, top military, perm sec, full cabinet ministers, top intelligence and security officers who meet regularly to keep abreast of domestic, regional and international security issues, terrorism and military conflict that can threaten our trade, defence and survival.
03/07/2023, 6:11 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If CEO mess up like Twitter - the worst is can be is to file for bankruptcy.
If people mess up the ministers - we may have to pay with our lives and our assets.
03/07/2023, 6:11 pm - +Rama: Yup
03/07/2023, 6:15 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And domestic terrorism also involves the marine.
Our police coast guard only got machine guns, and rifles but no missiles.
Minister have to activate our Navy frogman to storm terrorist ships as well as fire missiles to sink an explosive laden terrorists ship if need be.
Civil servants in MHA can activate navy frogman and missile frigates? <This message was edited>
03/07/2023, 6:17 pm - +Rama: Exactly!
03/07/2023, 6:21 pm - +~L: Equally, ministers can't do whatever they want and hold the country to ransom because they are all powerful. Singapore has thrived because of the population having trust in the government. If we lose trust, it's the same consequences as having an army with no weapons. We don't want to create unnecessary distraction or noise about trivial matters, equally ministers are well paid enough not to game the system.
03/07/2023, 6:22 pm - +Rama: Yes
03/07/2023, 6:32 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Eg. A neighbour terrorist say want to shoot a mortar shell over.
Imagine MHA perm sec tell his police to catch the arty shell with bare hands?
03/07/2023, 6:33 pm - +Rama: ๐ณ๐๐คฆ♂️
03/07/2023, 6:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If the ministers don't have foresight to setup adt unit - our air defense cannot activate in time to intercept the arty shell.
03/07/2023, 6:34 pm - +Brandon Lin: Well said. ๐๐ผ
03/07/2023, 6:34 pm - +~L: Isn't this a much bigger scandal right now? https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/singapore-airlines-ceo-goh-choon-phong-annual-pay-2022-23-rises-88-s673-million-3591986
03/07/2023, 6:35 pm - +Rama: We have been observing overseas intelligence and security services along with various law enforcement agencies to adapt and function with our own alertness and preparedness.
03/07/2023, 6:35 pm - +~L: Bailed out by Singapore Reserves (justifiably) so shouldn't this money be given back to Singaporeans?
03/07/2023, 6:35 pm - +Rama: Yes
03/07/2023, 6:35 pm - +Rama: It should !
03/07/2023, 6:38 pm - +~@: the profit is 2billion, aka 2000 million. and he's given about 7 million.
03/07/2023, 6:38 pm - +~@: not even 1 % of the profit
03/07/2023, 6:38 pm - +~L: Sure, how much of the profit goes to the people doing the work?
03/07/2023, 6:39 pm - +~@: 6.65 months bonus
03/07/2023, 6:39 pm - +~L: what % of the profit, so we can do a like for like comparison
03/07/2023, 6:39 pm - +Rama: Still, must return to the treasury what was loaned!
03/07/2023, 6:40 pm - +~@: wait for the annual report
03/07/2023, 6:40 pm - +Rama: Hopefully before end of current financial year
03/07/2023, 6:40 pm - +~L: You mean 1.5 months, only to eligible employees: "SIA will also award 0.5 months of ex-gratia bonus for each of the last three financial years, or a maximum total of 1.5 months, to eligible employees."
03/07/2023, 6:41 pm - +~L: So he get 88% pay rise, and everyone else get 15% one-off
bonus.
03/07/2023, 6:41 pm - +~L: Not exactly fair is it....
03/07/2023, 6:41 pm - +Rama: ๐ณ๐คฆ♂️๐๐
03/07/2023, 6:41 pm - +Rama: Nope!
03/07/2023, 6:42 pm - +~@: ๐คฃ
03/07/2023, 6:42 pm - +~L: I guess $3m a year wasn't enough for him, he feels he should get $6m. What's the message to Singaporeans?
03/07/2023, 6:43 pm - +~L: Maybe he will give the extra $3m to Singapore Charities as a thank you for being bailed out.
03/07/2023, 6:43 pm - +Rama: Everyone must work for less and struggle together!
03/07/2023, 6:43 pm - +Rama: President Star Charity 2023
03/07/2023, 6:47 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
03/07/2023, 6:49 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So if WP and oppositions successfully bait gullible voters to believe in them that civil service alone can run Singapore very well.
Ministers are immaterial - then prepare for Singapore to go downhill and vanish.
These oppositions are doing each and every Singaporeans a disservice - because they don't have the vision how a great country is run.
Just look at our neighbours.
A poor political outcome even with good civil service don't function well.
Civil service will just go by auto pilot mode - and may not be able to transform themselves to meet new challenges.
Only bright Cabinet Ministers will have the political clout and long term vision to transform the civil service to meet new challenges.
03/07/2023, 6:52 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
See how Trump close their country to the world and how Biden engage the world.
The political outcome are very different.
Everyone hated US when trump is helming the post.
But many allies respond to Biden.
US has good civil service - but look at the political outcome when the president react differently. <This message was edited>
03/07/2023, 6:52 pm - +Timothy Low: To be honest i don't WP said that?
03/07/2023, 6:52 pm - +Timothy Low: *think
03/07/2023, 6:53 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I think many years ago when I read in a social media news.
03/07/2023, 6:53 pm - +Rama: True
03/07/2023, 6:53 pm - +Rama: Exactly
03/07/2023, 6:54 pm - +Timothy Low: Please substantiate
03/07/2023, 6:54 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Many years I didn't save the news.
03/07/2023, 6:55 pm - +Rama: ๐ณ๐
03/07/2023, 6:55 pm - +Timothy Low: If no proof...cannot everything bad says it's WP and opposition's fault?
03/07/2023, 6:55 pm - +Rama: Also True
03/07/2023, 6:55 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oppositions have been saying this in rally
03/07/2023, 6:56 pm - +Rama: OK
03/07/2023, 6:56 pm - +Khuan Yew: There may not have been any corruption or criminal wrongdoing but more questions need to be asked on whether the ministers had preferential treatment. Firstly, did SLA receive interests from other parties to rent those bungalows in the past but their requests to SLA to improve or upkeep the properties was turned down? Secondly, why did SLA agree to what looks like a financing arrangement to pay for the upfront costs and then to collect it back from the tenant? Thirdly, why did SLA allow the properties to fall into a state of disrepair for so many years such that there was no tenants but when a minister showed interest, funds were plowed to improve the condition of the property. What caused a change in SLA's thinking with regard to this if its previous mentality was not to put in money into maintaining the property but suddenly it was worthwhile to do so?
03/07/2023, 6:56 pm - +Timothy Low: You mentioned specially WP - and i highly doubt they will said that
03/07/2023, 6:56 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes I remember WP member say that also.
03/07/2023, 6:57 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
During ltk time.
But I can't recall who say this.
03/07/2023, 6:57 pm - +Rama: Check sph and mediacorp archives
03/07/2023, 6:58 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
<Media omitted>
03/07/2023, 6:59 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Can dig out more if more time.
03/07/2023, 7:01 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
03/07/2023, 7:02 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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