REACH 481 - What are your views on the efforts to make public housing accessible for Singaporean singles and second-time public housing buyers? Do you have any concerns about the housing options for them?
(SK)
31 Jul 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
31/07/2023, 9:46 am - +REACH: *Dear contributors,*
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31/07/2023, 10:02 am - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
As part of the ongoing Forward Singapore exercise, National Development Minister Desmond Lee addressed suggestions for more equitable access for singles to housing types across mature and non-mature estates and prime locations on Sunday (30 July).
To address affordability concerns, some ideas being considered include a variation of “rent-to-own” models – where tenants have the option to buy the property they are renting after some time – and the possibility of buying flats sold with shorter leases. This is to cater to some singles who may wish to rent initially because of financial reasons, or for flexibility.
*💬 What are your views on the efforts to make public housing accessible for Singaporean singles and second-time public housing buyers? Do you have any concerns about the housing options for them?*
Issues discussed included concerns over singles being barred from buying new prime location public housing (PLH) flats directly from the Housing Board as well as from the PLH resale market.
Mr Lee said: “We continuously identify where the social compact lies. It is very clear that our society is evolving. People are getting married later, having fewer, if any, children, and more are remaining single. We are also seeing increasing transnational families. These are the trends that are here to stay... but we must get a feel of the pulse and make adjustments along the way.”
He added: “We spend a lot on public housing and are committed to spend more, if necessary, to keep public housing affordable, accessible and inclusive, in response to social changes. But we must also make sure our land resource and carbon constraints are featured in our calibrations, and that any decision we make today must be something that can be sustained well into the future.”
For second-timers, Mr Lee said some may have started out with smaller homes, but now require larger homes to accommodate a growing family. Others, such as empty-nesters, may wish to right-size to a smaller unit, while those who have fallen on hard times may require stronger support to buy homes again, he added.
Mr Lee said this supply-demand imbalance would be corrected in time. Meanwhile, second-timers who require greater support for a second chance at owning a flat can get help from several schemes, such as the Assistance Scheme for Second-Timers for divorced or widowed parents with young children, and the Third Child Priority Scheme for larger families with three or more children.
*👉🏻 More equitable access to housing types for singles being studied: Desmond Lee*
https://str.sg/iiLw
31/07/2023, 10:02 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
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31/07/2023, 10:10 am - +Smiley face: "When things go faster, the shorter the route. Why?
The faster it's goes one unable to chase this speedster because you are running against time and time is against you! So how? "...
- - anonymity
31/07/2023, 10:14 am - +Caleb: Yes. Nothing was being done for now.
31/07/2023, 10:15 am - +~L: Excellent. Great to see attention being paid to this previously excluded group of society. Addressing both financial and lifestyle circumstancrs is very encouraging.
31/07/2023, 10:16 am - +~L: Rent to own is motivating and fair, and creates stability and independence.
31/07/2023, 10:17 am - +~L: Happy that government sees its role as supporting people rather than directing them.
31/07/2023, 10:56 am - +Doris Ho: Finally...they noticed!!!
31/07/2023, 11:13 am - +KL: A bit too late , I feel they know singles won’t benefit from any housing scheme than release the change . <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 11:14 am - +KL: Or any form of housing resale as well
31/07/2023, 11:14 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: Better late than never. Maybe the current singles won't benefit but there's always going to be singles in the future. I hope it gets executed soon. As fast as when they increased petrol tax.
31/07/2023, 11:15 am - +KL: They would rather let forginer or pr earn the money . My ex ex manager with her sister ( Both PR ) even before they reached 35 buy a town hdb resale in 2015 <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 11:26 am - +Rama: Agree
31/07/2023, 11:28 am - +TD: This Loophole needs to be closed up.
How can 2 PRs be allowed to buy resale when 2 Single SC cannot.
Makes no sense
31/07/2023, 11:29 am - +KL: Part of the rule was closed in 2015-16 under slibing rules but feel shitty , all these money is mail back and can see they merging with hk to impacting our economy <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 11:30 am - +KL: Every single cents mail back now is weaponise against sg economy
31/07/2023, 11:30 am - +KL: Which I foresee long ago .
31/07/2023, 11:43 am - +Smiley face: just simply divided by a fixed period of " instalments" and a smaller and simple initial sum to start living in a flat?
31/07/2023, 11:43 am - +Rama: PE2023: Tan Kin Lian applies for certificate of eligibility
https://sg.news/?p=1081029
31/07/2023, 11:43 am - +Rama: 😳🤷♂️🤦♂️
31/07/2023, 11:44 am - +TD: 🤦🏻♂️
31/07/2023, 12:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Why not?
31/07/2023, 12:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: SPR can’t apply BtO single buy
31/07/2023, 12:09 pm - +TD: ? 2 PR singles can buy HDB before 35. 2 SC singles cannot.
31/07/2023, 12:09 pm - +TD: this should be the case. Why should PRs have equivalent benefits as SC?
31/07/2023, 12:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Nope I don’t think so. Let me check find out details
31/07/2023, 12:10 pm - +TD: Please do.
31/07/2023, 12:10 pm - +KL: in 2015 can ,but closed off in late 201Xs
31/07/2023, 12:11 pm - +TD: there's another one now. Someone brought it up previously
31/07/2023, 12:11 pm - +TD: can't remember specifics
31/07/2023, 12:12 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 12:13 pm - +KL: so still can ah ?
31/07/2023, 12:13 pm - +KL: omg
31/07/2023, 12:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think PR who are single mother allow them to buy resale
31/07/2023, 12:13 pm - +KL: i see is "or" not "and" right ? <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:13 pm - +TD: OR
31/07/2023, 12:14 pm - +KL: So the still alive omg
31/07/2023, 12:14 pm - +KL: So many problem ah lol
31/07/2023, 12:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Who are windowed or ophan allow to buy
31/07/2023, 12:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: All this state mental
31/07/2023, 12:34 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 12:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Because they know marriage is not easy sometime issue burden or divorce case
31/07/2023, 12:37 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. 2 million singles in Singapore.
2. Government cannot ignore the needs and wants of such a large group of people - to stay relevant.
3. Though it means catering to their needs for housing will compromise the TFR (Total Replacement Rate) for our population which is hovering around 1.05 - unable to replace our population. <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:38 pm - +Smiley face: What are the differentiation of a BTO buyer vs Resale flats buyer vs a Rent to Own tenant?
What will be the longer term implications from the point of economics, social and politics in this Systems of Dwelling; this portion that is Rent to Own policy worked out very well?
31/07/2023, 12:38 pm - +KL: Thanks Danny on point 2 , a bit too late even they action now , still touch by your action <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 12:42 pm - +KL: They should ask themself why TFR low then :)) <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:46 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Earlier if this topic is raised, I will still be worried about our population situation - I will not be supportive about providing more housing needs to the single.
2. However the ground situation change my thoughts.
The growing size of singles - which is a reality - and no matter what efforts are done eg. Baby incentives, flexible work time, more family friendly policies etc - the trends cannot be reversed.
3. Deeper study will be needed why more Singaporeans are staying singles.
4. Hence to sustain and replace our population needs for labour, for security, to support our aging population - accepting immigrants that can immerse into our Singapore culture will be the next best options.
31/07/2023, 12:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 12:48 pm - +KL: Ur point 4 will hit point 2 cos in 2012 they did not do well and last for 2 decades causing a huge damaged to the root
31/07/2023, 12:48 pm - +KL: Your point 4 is correct if they do well in 2010
31/07/2023, 12:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 12:49 pm - +KL: it is because the MOM that time did not forsee the issue or turn a wildfully bilnd eye .
31/07/2023, 12:49 pm - +KL: I say before wor
31/07/2023, 12:50 pm - +KL: I call this Em3 issue :0
31/07/2023, 12:51 pm - +KL: U know who think of HSR (KL Link) should also be whack as well . They thinking to move poor Singaporean to KL and rich to SG . <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:52 pm - +KL: These is because a lot civil servant not sure local or not doing project, without thinking. <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:52 pm - +~.@: most young people finished their degree studies at 25 years old, come out to work finding their own career aspirations, along the way they meet people, but not all people share the same aspirations, then bouncing back and forth between dates
31/07/2023, 12:52 pm - +~.@: by the time they wanna settle down, they already in the late child bearing age
31/07/2023, 12:53 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
5. Singapore labour needs and security situation cannot wait for singles to get married and have children - when all families policies are not able to coax people to get married and have children.
And as such accepting good immigrants that can fit into our labour, serve our national service and immerse into our culture become imperative.
31/07/2023, 12:53 pm - +KL: frankly i see those in Uni one married jiu marry liao those out of uni then find maybe much harder <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:53 pm - +KL: cos the girl will know what they want , after uni <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:53 pm - +~.@: and a sizeable number of my friends who married early, are either divorced, or pending divorce
31/07/2023, 12:54 pm - +KL: my side 50% single lol
31/07/2023, 12:55 pm - +~.@: at the last gathering, 6 ladies, 1 almost divorce, 1 already divorce and remarried, 1 seeking divorce, 1 not married,
31/07/2023, 12:55 pm - +KL: How many serve ? most retain as PR then jiu go backliao right where is Security situation ? <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 12:55 pm - +~.@: 1 guy also the wife wanna divorce after 2 years of marriage
31/07/2023, 12:59 pm - +KL: Can i ask Singapore , those PR thinking to retain the HDB in Singapore as rent and move back Malaysia / USa what Singapore action on these ? once you solve this u can solve a small portion of population issue and hdb issue <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 1:00 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
6. Imagine 2 million singles out of 5.65 million have no replacement - what will be our labour and security situation - with not enough workers and soldiers?
A disastrous outcomes.
7. Hence immigrants will be our next best solutions.
31/07/2023, 1:01 pm - +KL: then maybe u can resolve single hdb issue as well
31/07/2023, 1:01 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
8. Without such solution, our economy will collapse, and aggressor can easily overrun Singapore.
And we stop to exist.
31/07/2023, 1:02 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
31/07/2023, 1:04 pm - +KL: a bit late la
31/07/2023, 1:25 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 1:26 pm - +KL: This is precovid right ? Data as of June 2022 , re reopen ard march 2022. I will be interested in Full year 2022 and 2023 data. Why need a year to update the data ? <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 1:26 pm - +~L: Do PR Lose their PR if they move away for more than 5 years though? If PR is lost, do they have to sell, or give back to HDB?
31/07/2023, 1:26 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
31/07/2023, 1:29 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore citizens are 3.55 million.
If 2 million Singapore citizens stay single, only 1.55 million left to serve Singapore as labour and soldiers.
And out of 1.55 million minus elderly, woman, children - how many left to be soldiers?
How many Singapore citizens to work as labour?
So Singapore must be pragmatic and realistic to look at situation and prescribe the right solutions and cannot be self-serving and selfish look at only their personal needs - at the expense of the macro perspective.
If the country fall, everyone fall - so what in short term a personal needs is fulfilled?
31/07/2023, 1:31 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
31/07/2023, 1:32 pm - +TD: They don't. Or at least I've never heard of anyone losing it, especially malaysians
31/07/2023, 1:34 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
31/07/2023, 1:36 pm - +Khuan Yew: I think that the priority for HDB flats should be (1) first timer couple, (2) first timer single (for 3 room or studio flats) and (3) second timer couples and singles. HDB should consider building more studio flats that are targeted at singles. After they have lived there and end up finding a life partner, they can always sell the studio flat to buy a 4-room or 5 -room flat. At least, they have an asset that they can sell to buy the next one.
31/07/2023, 1:42 pm - +~.@: if i understand correctly, PR usually within 10 years time frame. upon renewal, ICA will assess their stay. i have fren who got reduced to yearly PR status.
31/07/2023, 1:42 pm - +Khuan Yew: For the rent-to-own model, I think this is tricky to implement because people will figure out that it is putting less cash upfront to rent but they effectively get the option to buy the property at a confirmed price in the future. If HDB prices are up, they will then switch to owning it because they know that they will definitely be able to sell the flat for a nice profit. If HDB prices, are down, they will just continue to rent and not suffer any loss. I can already imaging many property agents pitching this rent-to-own model to their prospective clients as yet another way to make money out of HDB flats. Furthermore, it is actually a cost to HDB because instead of selling the flat to a buyer, HDB is not able to realize the sale and is only receiving rental income from the tenant. When the tenant finally decides to own it and sells the property for a tidy profit, HDB does not gain anything from this "financing" arrangement. If HDB were to implement this rent-to-own model, it would need to have strict rules at the start to make sure that tenants need to rent and can't afford to buy and it needs to be monitored every 1 to 2 years instead of just letting them rent indefinitely.
31/07/2023, 1:42 pm - +~.@: PR also tag with something called a re-entry permit, without which they cant enter as PR even though their PR status is still valid.
31/07/2023, 1:52 pm - +~L: Yes and if REP expires, then ICA can ask them to relinquish PR
31/07/2023, 1:54 pm - +Darius Lee: Having a home is an important part of anyone's life. One of HDB's goals is to provide quality and affordable housing for all.
I think we can prioritise housing for married couples (especially those with children) without necessarily penalising or making things difficult for singles. For example, it could be possible to lower the limit of 35 years for singles for smaller flats (e.g. 3-room flats).
Conversely, it should make sense for larger families with more children to have more support to get larger flats.
31/07/2023, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
As part of the ongoing Forward Singapore exercise, National Development Minister Desmond Lee addressed suggestions for more equitable access for singles to housing types across mature and non-mature estates and prime locations on Sunday (30 July).
To address affordability concerns, some ideas being considered include a variation of “rent-to-own” models – where tenants have the option to buy the property they are renting after some time – and the possibility of buying flats sold with shorter leases. This is to cater to some singles who may wish to rent initially because of financial reasons, or for flexibility.
*💬 What are your views on the efforts to make public housing accessible for Singaporean singles and second-time public housing buyers? Do you have any concerns about the housing options for them?*
Issues discussed included concerns over singles being barred from buying new prime location public housing (PLH) flats directly from the Housing Board as well as from the PLH resale market.
Mr Lee said: “We continuously identify where the social compact lies. It is very clear that our society is evolving. People are getting married later, having fewer, if any, children, and more are remaining single. We are also seeing increasing transnational families. These are the trends that are here to stay... but we must get a feel of the pulse and make adjustments along the way.”
He added: “We spend a lot on public housing and are committed to spend more, if necessary, to keep public housing affordable, accessible and inclusive, in response to social changes. But we must also make sure our land resource and carbon constraints are featured in our calibrations, and that any decision we make today must be something that can be sustained well into the future.”
For second-timers, Mr Lee said some may have started out with smaller homes, but now require larger homes to accommodate a growing family. Others, such as empty-nesters, may wish to right-size to a smaller unit, while those who have fallen on hard times may require stronger support to buy homes again, he added.
Mr Lee said this supply-demand imbalance would be corrected in time. Meanwhile, second-timers who require greater support for a second chance at owning a flat can get help from several schemes, such as the Assistance Scheme for Second-Timers for divorced or widowed parents with young children, and the Third Child Priority Scheme for larger families with three or more children.
*👉🏻 More equitable access to housing types for singles being studied: Desmond Lee*
https://str.sg/iiLw
31/07/2023, 2:00 pm - +KL: Now single can only ballot non mature 2 rrom BTO and a lot of single fell for it . <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 2:01 pm - +KL: why we cant live at mature estate ?
31/07/2023, 2:01 pm - +KL: now then can do you know why many of my friend balloted those non mature estate at tegah ?
31/07/2023, 2:04 pm - +Suma pamu: 1. PR household Can not rent out whole unit HDB even they stay in Singapore, or any where.
2. PR renewal is every 5 yrs, if The main PR not living in Singapore ICA not issuing Auto renewal, Instead they are giving yearly renewal provided the Main applicant move back and work in Singapore.
3.with Out Citizen parents,/SC sibling PR children Can not buy Hdb any more. (as far as i know)
4. A PR household must be Family nucleus with 3yrs Completed to buy
Resale Hdb (can not Buy BTO)(at least One SC spouse then only can buy BTO)
Everytime this topic
Insteaf of raising one important And Valid Question every one focussing on different things. But I repeat again
To buy Any HDB one(if Family, both Spouses)Should not own Any residential property any where else in the world, also should not have disposed any residential property with in the last 15 months. This Rule has been violated many many times, as PRs own Houses still come here buy HDB (working in big Banks/MNCs from years if any one thinks this group wont have Houses in their Home country i don't know how to believe!). A Sc And PR spouse also some cases i heard PR Spouse own Properties else where but still come here and buy BTO /resale Hdb.. if the rule applies to A citizen strictly why PR Getting away with this? How many cases HDB/MND handled where PRs bought Houses in other countries Before owning HDB alsp during MOP of HDB. I sincerely hope all ypu focus on this major issue first before The other questions, as this is the big loop hole giving advantage to PR (PRs also need to Declare That they shouldn't have any property any where before buying HDB, but hardly any PR follow this strictly). I hope this loophole will be permanently Closed .
31/07/2023, 2:05 pm - +Suma pamu: plz reread as PR Orphan children... point 3
31/07/2023, 2:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
My friend comments:-
In land scarce Singapore, it will be very wasteful for single to own an apartment.
A 2 room flexi with 36-45sqm is atrociously space luxurious.
Compare with a family of 4 living within 91sqm.
Consider new co-living concepts.
Singles are less likely to cook their own meals, so the layout can do away with the kitchen, service yard etc.
Most new condos have already reduced the kitchen into a counter-top and washer tugged underneath it.
And this is packaged into "open concept".
I don't know why HDB is not catching up with time?
Are we hopeful that the singles will get married one day and form a family unit?
I'm not in favour of the rent-own model. If the rental if low, I won't buy and continue to rent.
Money saved can be invested to make more money or spent and enjoy 🤭.
Gov subsidised my spending and enjoyment, why buy?
And if the rental is high, I cannot afford, so it is not a solution at all.
I will continue to complain!
Short lease and smaller co-living concept may worth considering.
31/07/2023, 2:06 pm - +Khuan Yew: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 2:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 2:08 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Thanks for the corrected stats.
But still the argument is the same.
As the number of singles are still very large.
31/07/2023, 2:10 pm - +KL: from this , I forsee higher ppl seek healthcare help <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 2:11 pm - +Smiley face: Rent to Own?
Are there added financial costs versus the usual BTO flats customers? Is it similar to a hire purchase whereby a buyer pays more interest for the use of an asset? And in some instances of HP; an initial smaller outlay of cash and a balloon sum of payment at the end of a HP period?
Or in this Rent to Own scheme; just simply divided by a fixed period of " instalments" and a smaller and simple initial sum to start living in a flat?
31/07/2023, 2:11 pm - +KL: Cos ppl will eat out and those in hawker anyhow cook
31/07/2023, 2:11 pm - +KL: more salt and sugar cause more disease .
31/07/2023, 2:11 pm - +KL: saw the circle ?
31/07/2023, 2:14 pm - +Khuan Yew: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 2:17 pm - +Smiley face: The Systems of Dwelling? (residential, commercial, industrial)
The systems of owning, renting and the ratio of a population matters to any modern society. The imbalance of either the owners or the tenants (shortest to longest lease) will have profound adverse effects on the longevity of a developmental economy....
31/07/2023, 2:19 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I look at the stat you provided. Are they singles?
If yes, I will add up all the singles from 20 years onwards and it is definitely not 557,748.
Correct me if I am wrong.
31/07/2023, 2:21 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Because your first stat is single.
Your 2nd stat is residents.
And it didn't break down citizens, PRs or foreigners.
31/07/2023, 2:23 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 2:23 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 2:28 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: And this is bad for Singaporeans because???
It should be seen as one of them good things being Singaporean.
It will attract foreigners to come stay and work in singapore, improve economy and make the asset enhancement a reality.
If economy kaput whole property price crash!
31/07/2023, 2:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And if I add up the singles + widow + divorce = 1,332,300 people are not married.
31/07/2023, 2:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
31/07/2023, 2:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
So only 2,151,800 are married versus 1,332,300 - still a big number of citizens are not married out of 3,484,100 citizens. <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 2:37 pm - +KL: This mean HDB will lost more money lor given they say HDB making loses. if u think this is good for Singaporean. IF you think this is bad for Singaporean then will be good for Singapore. What Khuan Yew said make sense . hearsay HK have same model for public flat ( rent to buy model if i not wrong) also got lot of issue. Their issue is more unique. cos the risk will be at HDB . Since long ago , ah gong encourage ppl to buy flat , not go back old policies. I hope which person suggest this policies , should have his background check as well <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 2:46 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Aiyoh. In the olden days. Hahahaha. Single argue why need to get married to buy flat . They contributed to the success of Singapore Inc so need to share the fruits. Why PR marries can get flat. Now take away. Votes will be affected. Already young ones complain about cost of living, car, housing. Take it away from single hahaha they will lie flat
31/07/2023, 2:57 pm - +KL: OMG , do MSF aware ? I thot they got a matching making website under SDN ? Still working ? I mean the URL <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 2:58 pm - +Smiley face: One possibility...
31/07/2023, 2:59 pm - +Smiley face: Changed in the demography and over 40 years of developments.
31/07/2023, 3:00 pm - +Smiley face: Whenever someone mentioned about lost, it means there are trade-offs to consider and NOTHING happens to be FOC.
What are the 6 components of Developmental Economics?
31/07/2023, 3:02 pm - +Smiley face: As assumed our Singles is currently standing at 1 million... by singles we meant of 21 yrs and above.
For convenience to all, let's model this 1 previous million people vs the other 2.5 millions...
1:2.5
31/07/2023, 3:03 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
31/07/2023, 3:04 pm - +Smiley face: 31 July, 2023
"Demand meets Supply?"
Comparatively, new to new, all HDB flats are more affordable compared to all EC and Condor.
If our present singles are standing at 1 million (equal gender) and remained unmarried, then a HDB 2 room would be ideal going into the next 15 years or longer.
Would 600-700sqft comfortable and liveable for one or two people to live in?
What will HDB build to solve the demand for flats of all sizes and the full consideration of the ratio of race representation. Below is an estimated breakdown of types of flats in one block, 60 floors.
Distribution of flats type: (projected estimates 2030, +/-5%)
Studio - 15%*
2 Rm. - 25%
3 Rm. - 30%
4 Rm. - 20%
5 Rm. - 10%**
*Studios can accommodate either a Senior or a Single person or Senior with spouse shall receive additional grants and incentives.
**For 5 room flats, additional incentives such as grants for multi-gen family, one ageing parent living with one child and grandchild shall receive more grants and other incentives compared to no grandchild and two or more grandchildren shall receive the maximum grants and other incentives.
- - in progress - -
31/07/2023, 3:07 pm - +Smiley face: There is an even urgent need to equalise this population equation from 1 million young people and ADD ONE million...
2.0:2.5
31/07/2023, 3:08 pm - +Smiley face: Are we looking at 7 million by 2035 or sooner?
31/07/2023, 3:08 pm - +Smiley face: 31 July, 2023
"The war on jobs and skills?"
"In the context of global trades, tax, tariff, quota and subsidy are four areas of buffer to sustain or to secure all direct or indirect contributions into a domestic economy, jobs and skills. You just have to fight both at one goal!"
- - anonymity
31/07/2023, 3:15 pm - +Khuan Yew: Your argument was that the singles need a flat and they are a large number. Those who are widowed or divorced are likely to still have a flat and are not in the same boat as the singles. Unmarried = singles, widowed and divorced. But with regards to HDB flats, it is really referring to the singles and not the widowed and divorced.
31/07/2023, 3:27 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
No my argument is not single need a flat.
In fact if singles stay with their parents are even better.
My argument is single, divorce and widows don't have replacement - hence immigrants are needed for replacement.
31/07/2023, 3:33 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
In fact singles demanding a flat to themselves aggravate the land needs, demand more land space and drive up flat prices.
These is the position that myself and my close friend are worried about.
But the reality on the ground leave with no choice for the government.
Hence, creative solutions to squeeze some spaces for single needs will be required.
But flat price will go up, as land space pricing correspond with demand for more flats. <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 3:44 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Imagine close to one million singles demand a flat to themselves - how many more flats and land spaces are needed compare to married people?
A married couples of 1 million will only require 500,000 flats compared to 1 million flats for single.
Also have to allocate flats for immigrants to replace the 1 million singles?
More land space needed.
So imagine the flat price - with such an upsurge demand for flats?
Macro perspective can multiply exponentially.
But when people only look at and think of only their own needs - will not be able to see the macro perspective.
This is what bright government are needed - who are voted to look into our macro needs.
31/07/2023, 3:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
"Japan records steepest drop in population".
Korea, China, Singapore also experience fall in birth rate.
But Japan is the most acute.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/japan-sees-record-drop-in-population#:~:text=Japan%20records%20steepest%20drop%20in%20population
31/07/2023, 3:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
"Era of mass closures': The Japan businesses without successors".
Japan economic powerhouse also facing problems.
Together with China economic uncertainty - doesn't look good.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/japan-business-closures-no-successors-ageing-population-3651871#:~:text=Era%20of%20mass%20closures%27%3A%20The%20Japan%20businesses%20without%20successors
31/07/2023, 3:55 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Look at the population situation in Japan, S Korea - the birth rate decline very serious.
In fact, their races will be wiped out going by this rate and yet they are not responsive to immigrants - as they value their native races.
Singapore face the same fate, and if we close up like what these countries do and refuse immigrants - Singapore by a few decades cease to exist.
31/07/2023, 3:55 pm - +Ken: Japan just too many aged business that refuse to change or adapt. One of the country with many companies over 100 years old
31/07/2023, 3:55 pm - +Ken: Hence Japan is starting to take more immigrants
31/07/2023, 3:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If they don't, Japan become irrelevant to the world.
31/07/2023, 3:57 pm - +Ken: Their population still higher than Singapore 🤣
With many expat overseas. They can try by integrating all their foreign mix blood Japanese.. or give them free pass to go to japan as long as they have a Japanese parent
31/07/2023, 3:58 pm - +Ken: Currently most mixed Japanese or foreign educated find it hard to integrate into the country
31/07/2023, 3:58 pm - +Ken: As for Singapore it is much easier… we don’t discriminate as much as Japan
31/07/2023, 3:58 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Because their culture is too enclosed - and they treasure their pure breed.
31/07/2023, 4:00 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
We are very lucky to be cosmopolitan and have been embracing diversity.
But if more people become xenophobic - then Singaporeans can kiss goodbye to our existence 50 years later. <This message was edited>
31/07/2023, 4:01 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
As part of the ongoing Forward Singapore exercise, National Development Minister Desmond Lee addressed suggestions for more equitable access for singles to housing types across mature and non-mature estates and prime locations on Sunday (30 July).
To address affordability concerns, some ideas being considered include a variation of “rent-to-own” models – where tenants have the option to buy the property they are renting after some time – and the possibility of buying flats sold with shorter leases. This is to cater to some singles who may wish to rent initially because of financial reasons, or for flexibility.
*💬 What are your views on the efforts to make public housing accessible for Singaporean singles and second-time public housing buyers? Do you have any concerns about the housing options for them?*
Issues discussed included concerns over singles being barred from buying new prime location public housing (PLH) flats directly from the Housing Board as well as from the PLH resale market.
Mr Lee said: “We continuously identify where the social compact lies. It is very clear that our society is evolving. People are getting married later, having fewer, if any, children, and more are remaining single. We are also seeing increasing transnational families. These are the trends that are here to stay... but we must get a feel of the pulse and make adjustments along the way.”
He added: “We spend a lot on public housing and are committed to spend more, if necessary, to keep public housing affordable, accessible and inclusive, in response to social changes. But we must also make sure our land resource and carbon constraints are featured in our calibrations, and that any decision we make today must be something that can be sustained well into the future.”
For second-timers, Mr Lee said some may have started out with smaller homes, but now require larger homes to accommodate a growing family. Others, such as empty-nesters, may wish to right-size to a smaller unit, while those who have fallen on hard times may require stronger support to buy homes again, he added.
Mr Lee said this supply-demand imbalance would be corrected in time. Meanwhile, second-timers who require greater support for a second chance at owning a flat can get help from several schemes, such as the Assistance Scheme for Second-Timers for divorced or widowed parents with young children, and the Third Child Priority Scheme for larger families with three or more children.
*👉🏻 More equitable access to housing types for singles being studied: Desmond Lee*
https://str.sg/iiLw
31/07/2023, 4:02 pm - +Ken: We are immigrants society… I don’t understand what’s the push.
Even me, I am second gen, my wife is first generation.
Competition is good, keep us competitive. It’s tough being Singaporean. But at least there is hope and prospect as compare to some other asean counterparts
31/07/2023, 4:02 pm - +Ken: My dad is xenophobic as well… ironically my mum from Malaysia 🤣
31/07/2023, 4:05 pm - +Ken: Housing is basis for most people wanting to stay in Singapore. As well as education for kids. Safety etc.
We trust in HDB cause we think there is value. Same for foreigner staying in Singapore. Those PR that brought houses. If they are deeply integrated eventually they become Singaporean.
How to keep HDB price low, to ensure all citizens gets a fair chance to have a house. Really not an easy question. To balance supply and demand.
Yet keeping price stable.
31/07/2023, 4:08 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Based on economic demand and supply, with land space as scarce resources, the additional demand from singles for flats - will drive up flat prices for HDB and private houses.
I am not able to see a price fall for housing going forward.
31/07/2023, 4:13 pm - +Ken: Going downward for those want to retire or buy at peak will not able to service their loan…
The price will just go up based on inflation + interest rate.
Anything goes below will trigger panic 😅
31/07/2023, 4:14 pm - +Ken: Getter Marco economic is not easy
31/07/2023, 4:14 pm - +Ken: Greater”
31/07/2023, 4:19 pm - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/I2CK-j-pR7M
The old cardinal rule for real estates or property is location, location and location!
The new revelation is People, People and People!
31/07/2023, 4:23 pm - +Frankie Wee: Taiwan everything never change development and society. Next generation will be the same problem.
31/07/2023, 4:38 pm - +Smiley face: What are our fresh grads starting salary? Uni, Poly, ITE?
31/07/2023, 4:42 pm - +Smiley face: The Systems of Dwelling? (residential, commercial, industrial)
The systems of owning, renting and the ratio of a population matters to any modern society. The imbalance of either the owners or the tenants (shortest to longest lease) will have profound adverse effects on the longevity of an developmental economy.
As an extreme example to elaborate the power of ratio in play is the longer run of an economy with more than 80% are owners will significantly reduced the magnitude and marginal utilities of tenants and the economic drivers from transactions, derivatives to the multipliers effect as a whole economic structure and demeaning the essence of an inclusive and an open economy.
On the flip side of more than 80% renting to live and to do business will yield lowered economic returns of 5% or less. Both scenarios, in the longer term for the sake of economic growth, developments, sustainability and reputation would be more challenging just to chase and balance all of it. Affordability?
Two key considerations when dealing with dwellings and businesses is to strike a balanced ratio of tenant and owner (60-40) coupled with the influx of new migrants as the buffer or added variable to rebalance and realign to achieve the ratio of a thriving and liveable urban city...
31/07/2023, 5:37 pm - +Smiley face: Hi ken,
Why do people matter over location?
Simply, a location with insufficient people will not be an ideal location.
People must be of quality and coupled with the correct quantity, then the location shall be more vibrant and relevant for trades and living and etc.
The key is quality followed by quantity.
Thanks, Ken
31/07/2023, 5:40 pm - +Smiley face: 人气、富气、财气
Growth & Prosperity
31/07/2023, 5:41 pm - +Smiley face: 勇气！Courage !
31/07/2023, 5:44 pm - +Noraini: Your point ? pr more quality?
31/07/2023, 6:34 pm - +Jimmy Chew: depends on who, can't say all Singaporean good qualities too. All human born equal but not equal hahaha
31/07/2023, 6:42 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Actually, if they can stay with parents old big flats and still demand for a 2 rm flat and subsequently rent out, we are all subsidizing their asset acquisition.
The problem is difficult to assess who is really in need of accommodation vs those who want to secure an asset.
Shortening lease is one way to discourage HDB flat investment
31/07/2023, 6:45 pm - +Smiley face: The in coming foreign Talents must possess special skills sets that are able to RUN not walk plus contribute to our economy!
Quality followed by quantity! That's the scaling for talents!
One reason for migrations is Talent, jobs and skills!
31/07/2023, 6:46 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
31/07/2023, 6:46 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/07/2023, 6:53 pm - +Smiley face: Needs over wants !
31/07/2023, 6:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
This is the main reason why my close friend and I reluctantly agreed with single flats.
It will distort the housing market demand, supply and pricing.
This is more a political manoeuvre due to skew social needs rather than an economic need.
31/07/2023, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: More are not getting married and some are delaying their marriages...
A new trend in the making....
31/07/2023, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: Freedom and freedom of burdens...
31/07/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 31 July, 2023
"People, Purpose and Policy"
The Systems of Dwelling? (residential, commercial, industrial)
The systems of owning, renting and the ratio of a population matters to any modern society. The imbalance of either the owners or the tenants (shortest to longest lease) will have profound adverse effects on the longevity of an developmental economy.
As an extreme example to elaborate the power of ratio in play is the longer run of an economy with more than 80% are owners will significantly reduced the magnitude and marginal utilities of tenants and the economic drivers from transactions, derivatives to the multipliers effect as a whole economic structure and demeaning the essence of an inclusive and an open economy.
On the flip side of more than 80% renting to live and to do business will yield lowered economic returns of 5% or less. Both scenarios, in the longer term for the sake of economic growth, developments, sustainability and reputation would be more challenging just to chase and balance all of it. Affordability?
Two key considerations when dealing with dwellings and businesses is to strike a balanced ratio of tenant and owner (60-40) coupled with the influx of new migrants as the buffer or added variable to rebalance and realign to achieve the ratio of a thriving and liveable urban city.
Rent to Own?
Are there added financial costs versus the usual BTO flats customers? Is it similar to a hire purchase whereby a buyer pays more interest for the use of an asset? And in some instances of HP; an initial smaller outlay of cash and a balloon sum of payment at the end of a HP period?
Or in this Rent to Own scheme; just simply divides by a fixed period of "instalments" and a smaller and simple initial sum to start living in a flat?
What are the differentiation of a BTO buyer vs Resale flats buyer vs a Rent to Own tenant?
Should this portion that is Rent to Own policy worked out very well? What will be the longer term implications from the point of economics, social and politics in this Systems of Dwelling?
Afterwords:
Simplicity, Patience and Compassion (SPC): these three "evergreens" are enablers of thrive and survive in a complex and complicated society even in an under developed economy to a highly developed economy. (infinite)
Simplicity will create many good things, Patience will bring multiple rewards, Compassion will reduce people's temperament and anxiety, and lift people's spirit from the lowest point to a higher point. (definite)
Re-examine and re-think?
Whether you are an individual, what are your purposes in life and the policymakers rebalancing and aligning ways to attempt many challenges at times seems not to achieve its intentions and continue the path of unknowns and unintended consequences? (finite)
How many meaningful initiatives, worthwhile projects, and workable policies can be built on the foundation of the three virtues? (3 in 1)
https://youtu.be/I2CK-j-pR7M
- - in progress - -
31/07/2023, 6:59 pm - +GLCM: Yes. Depending on take up rate, it might raise alarm bells regarding rising percentage of singles in Sin.
31/07/2023, 7:00 pm - +Smiley face: It's more than the HDB not able to chunk out houses in SPEED.
31/07/2023, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
31/07/2023, 7:02 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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