REACH 442 - What are your views on the suggestion that an English test should be part of Singapore’s citizenship application process? How can we ensure that new citizens are able to integrate into our society?
(SK)
05 Apr 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[11:15 am, 05/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[11:16 am, 05/04/2023] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
According to a survey commissioned by Channel News Asia, it was noted that a large majority of Singapore-born citizens believe that an English test should be part of the country’s citizenship application process. 80 per cent of 500 Singapore-born citizens polled were in favour of an English test being part of the country’s citizenship application process.
๐ฌ What are your views on the suggestion that an English test should be part of Singapore’s citizenship application process? How can we ensure that new citizens are able to integrate into our society?
On Feb 27 during the Committee of Supply debates, Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh said that he would advocate for an English test when assessing a person’s application for citizenship or permanent residency in Singapore.
In response, Second Minister for Home Affairs Josephine Teo said that while the Singapore authorities does consider an applicant’s ability to integrate in Singapore, they do not find using a naturalization test or interviews helpful. Instead, the immigration authorities would “consider various markers of social integration” such as an applicant’s family ties to Singapore or whether they completed National Service.
Sociologists, Assistant Professor Shannon Ang from Nanyang Technological University weigh in on the topic and disapproved with the suggestion of an English test as it could favour people who have more resources. Fellow sociologist Tan Er Ser from the National University of Singapore concurred and pointed out that what should be looked at was whether applicants “have shown some significant evidence of integration into Singapore society and acceptance of our shared values and ethos”.
Labour economist Walter Theseira from the Singapore University of Social Sciences added that he does not think the majority of high-skill talent globally will find a basic English requirement "onerous" when applying for citizenship. However, there are other areas where this raises concerns, including the issue of foreign spouses. "(This is) particularly if they are less well educated. It is generally already very difficult for such spouses to obtain residency and citizenship here, so the English requirement would be another barrier," he said.
๐๐ผCNA poll finds majority welcome English test to be part of Singapore citizenship application process : https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/english-test-new-citizens-pr-application-survey-3368571
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[11:22 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: Am I alone in finding this discriminatory?
[11:23 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: It is a practical requirement similar to becoming a US citizen.
[11:23 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: I don't think having a basic command of the lingua franca is discriminatory.
[11:23 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Punishing those who do not have a basic command is discriminatory.
[11:24 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: We should not punish them but neither should we openly condone non-integration.
[11:24 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: But we're not the US are we?
Also our National Language is not English?
[11:24 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Which is why I used 'lingua franca' not national language.
[11:25 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: We are already condoning non integration - just look at the Condos in Simei and Chennai Business Park
[11:25 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Or Tanjong Rhu condos yes I get what you mean
[11:26 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: English is required foreigner speak
How they communicate in contractor
China and India speak English
[11:26 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Let's take a brief straw poll of just the members of this group. How often have we encountered new citizens or PRs who are unable to even communicate with us?
[11:26 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: I am very sure plenty of us will kee chiu.
[11:26 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: Singapore English come first
Malaysia Malay come first
We are different
[11:27 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: personally - none. but I'm an oddball in that I speak 3 languages
[11:27 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: So do I and yet I myself have encountered instances.
[11:28 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: but I do get your point - often have to end up translating for my neighbourhood Indian mamashop
[11:28 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: Zero basic English how they understand communication each other different race languages
[11:28 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Nothing too insane but just a mild inconvenience easily overcome. Point is, we should encourage integration.
[11:31 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: No!
[11:31 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: Morning Andrew =)
[11:31 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[11:32 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: We are a multi racial country. A common denominator is a must!
[11:34 am, 05/04/2023] +Murphy Choy: If we choose one language, then I think this is inappropriate. Someone can be weak in a common language but has no issues with their preferred language. In Singapore, we recognised 4 languages and in my humble opinion, we should request them to be conversant in two languages, one as the main lingua franca and the other as secondary lingua franca. Afterall, we are taught two languages in school.
[11:35 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Wrong!
[11:35 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Cannot la.. If we punish later we will be called a cruel society.
[11:36 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Some really can't grasp.
[11:37 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: If our forefathers knows that people would integrate they would not have created an official language English, it is also a commercial language. I am Chinese and I speak Malay, because I am Peranakan, got scolded by a Chinese national for not honoring my heritage. I practice Chinese culture but I don't speak it. I think the idealogy in these foreigners' subtlety is that their culture is superior that the Singapore multi-racial culture base on English. We need to use a language that integrates all cultures which is the official language of English
[11:39 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/tiktok-chew-shou-zi-singaporean-ceo-speech-accent-american-features-3395481
[11:40 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I thought this was a good example of intregration, he could change to suit the occassion, as Singaporean we should do the same for our races too. honoring those MPs who can speak all dialect and language
[11:40 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: Hwa Chong Boy/ UK/US educated. He has it all.
[11:40 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: I love Peranakan because of culture foods and dress
[11:41 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Quite frequently!
[11:41 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes
[11:41 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I grew up with Chinese Nationals who exclaim that China will be number one. I understand in Myammar the business language is Mandarin, because all the business own by chinese national haha
[11:41 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Not necessarily!
[11:41 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Just like in the earlier days when you talk to some Americans, in the 70s, they say America is number one haha
[11:42 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: parents born in singapore ?
[11:43 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: Should be. No idea. Only know the schools.
[11:43 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: https://www.nhb.gov.sg/what-we-do/our-work/community-engagement/education/resources/national-symbols/national-pledge
[11:43 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: We are national pledge our different languages
[11:43 am, 05/04/2023] +Suma pamu: No amount of English can force people to integrate
I will just say this.
The sggregations already happening
Many condos
Some estates
Whether you force for Test or no test. This group never tries to integrate
They are forming enclaves, buying renting houses only where they have friends of their own race, religion.
Many of us w korean Series/movies across the world, and most of us don't even know the language. With so much technology in hand it's the thought and sincerity makes difference not whther they speak or not.
[11:44 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: How do others assist locals of the various races if even a common language cannot be spoken or written!?
[11:45 am, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: Have good point.
Technology is advance nowadays use google translate language but not perfect 100%
[11:47 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: agree, like returning plates, I hate it but because of the fine, I did it and now it's second nature. So the government need to have a rallying focus on integration, I have American friends who master Mandarin when they are in China, and the locals respect him.
[11:47 am, 05/04/2023] +SL: What is the basis of English test help in integration? Is this to segrgate who commands English better ?
[11:47 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Like why have an entry exams for University. It's a start
[11:48 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Re: your second last para
Pretty sure this is how The Mafia started. Lol
[11:48 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: As previously mentioned, it is a practical requirement similar to US citizenship tests.
[11:50 am, 05/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Yes I support that a pass in rudimentary English test is mandatory. English is the common language that binds all our races together.
Without a means to communicate, it’s going to be difficult to continue to have one people, one nation, one singapore. In hawker center when u see different races sit together, my opinion is that 99% of them use English to communicate.
[11:50 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: Given how much the US has failed at nearly everything other than causing chaos, I really don't like them being used as an example.
[11:50 am, 05/04/2023] +SL: Why not test German and French? There are experts and potential candidates from Europe. Isn't it Singapore a place open to all?
[11:51 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Okay that is understandable and I can agree to that. Other nations have this requirement too e.g. Canada, Portugal the list goes on.
[11:52 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Lingua franca my friend. We are not speaking German and French in this group now are we?
[11:52 am, 05/04/2023] +SL: The candidate is not getting citizenship in USA or UK. Am I right they are to be Singaporean?
[11:52 am, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Foreigners who take up pr/citizenship tends to form clique within their own network so learning English does not help the locals.
[11:52 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Even UK has this
[11:52 am, 05/04/2023] +SL: We are a global city. We can speak any language, isn't it?
[11:53 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I can't order in English now, the Chinese national workers feel that they are superior, and don't want to acknowledge me when I ask for items. Reply Mandarin to me... haha.. but I don't wanna learn Mandarin but am willing to pick up Hokkien, and Cantonese to help old folks home. No choice, old uncles and auntie who contributed to Singapore's Success, I will support
[11:53 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Of course you can! We are discussing citizenship here not freedom of speech.
[11:53 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: Think maybe not a full blown test like the TOEFL, but a basic spoken and conversational English proficiency - This I can get behind.
[11:53 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Being a Singapore resident is totally open to all. Being a Singapore citizen is a different matter altogether.
[11:54 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Yes that is agreeable. Full blown would be a little too heavy.
[11:54 am, 05/04/2023] +SL: This topic maybe need to discuss together with the national language according to the Singapore constitution?
[11:55 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: One step at a time I think. I can bet many do not speak the national language itself here in this group which is why I said 'lingua franca'
[11:56 am, 05/04/2023] +Umar M: Speaking the national language of Malay is a different topic and onus is more for native Singaporeans rather than requiring new citizens to simultaneously grasp English AND Malay.
[11:56 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: To be fair - if you t ry to order in English at a Malaysian run Chai Png stall, you'll get dirty looks too.
[11:56 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: haha, yeah, we all have our experiences.
[11:56 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: they speak cantonese
[11:56 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: or hokkien
[11:57 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: maybe if they are force to learn English, they will get connectd with all races?
[11:57 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: rather than their own lingua franca
[11:58 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: I dont believe this will happen. The other large enclaves all can speak English as well. And they don't integrate.
[11:58 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: we have a standard in our corporation, if there is a minority group, all must speak english, if we don't the minority has a right to complaint to management
[11:59 am, 05/04/2023] +TD: I dont believe a command of English will enable integration. Just look at a few of the large communities who can already speak english.
But a working command of spoken English will lessen the friction on a day to day basis.
[11:59 am, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I remember in Singapore the corporate language before this SOP was Mandarin, then In JB center it's Indian haha..
[0:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: it allows me to connect at least at a certain level, hopefully you find my life interesting and I can explain to you my peranakan culture and bridge to integration
[0:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: slowly but surely
[0:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: no english is like a duck and chicken, english helps bridge the gap
[0:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: duck and chicken can talk
[0:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: well if china be number one superpower, then maybe mandarin could be the integrator
[0:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: This is a problem @
[0:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 April, 2023
"Language: It's functional and it's meaningful!"
- - anonymity
"If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his own language, that goes to his heart..."
- - Nelson Mandela
[0:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[0:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: It is a first step!
[0:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: In the Singapore constitution, clause 123(1)(e) “has an elementary knowledge of one of the following languages, namely, Malay, English, Mandarin and Tamil.”
Is test should be conducted for all 4 languages since it is mentioned the candidate need to have an elementary knowledge of 1 of the 4 languages.
[0:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: So why is MCI JT saying otherwise!,
[0:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: what's MCI?
[0:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Ministry of Communication and Information
[0:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +~L: Singapore has 4 National Languages, and it makes sense that Citizens are required to speak the one that is used in School and Commerce and on all our national signs
[0:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: South Africa has eleven official languages (see table): English, Afrikaans and nine ethnic languages, of which Zulu and Xhosa are the most widely spoken. While most South Africans can communicate in more than one language, English is the most commonly spoken and the language of official business and commerce.
[0:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Definitely English!
[0:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: JT’s comments are accurate in assessing the elementary knowledge of one of 4 languages that didn't need to have a test by itself.
[0:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: I disagree!
[0:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: he's a fine example of adaptation but integration hmm
[0:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Agree to disagree
[0:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Another way of putting it!
[0:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: I ordered chicken rice at a store in english, lots of pointing of finger at the glass display and mandarin which I didn’t quite understand. I just my nodded head. Collected food, sat down to eat, my chicken turned to duck!
[0:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly the test is just another way to say local are not equally treated .
[0:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I met a Vietnamese who speaks Mandarin, but we can't connect, she doesn't want to learn English, and wants me to learn Mandarin haha so business does take precedence for a ASEAN country to learn the language and affects integration
[0:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: In my say should ask they need to serve ns or pay ns equallvant tax only MAY change my opinion . The last decade flood gate open it a disaster to local
[0:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: First thing First:
If a person cannot speak a language properly and or clearly, this person will probably not be able to write and or read and it will make communication a big problem to whom he or she interacts or transacts?
[0:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: English as a common language is a must!
[0:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes!
[0:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: maybe learn English and Mandarin, because China gonna be number one, one of my American friends shared that LKY was strategic to make us learn Mandarin. Sad to say that I am one of the dropouts haha
[0:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hello Andrew, you are highly active today...
Kudos to you!
[0:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: A common language denominator is a definite must!
[0:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Beware of the consequences and implications of mandatory this English test to attract foreign talent from around the globe. It might impact the images if an exemption was given to a group.
[0:19 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: The opposite has helped!?
[0:19 pm, 05/04/2023] +m6dm6n: I rather have a psychology assessment to reject the person identified as racist, rather than accepting a person that is very good in English but being racist Mindset
[0:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Is this possible?
[0:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: assessment will be done in which language?
[0:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +m6dm6n: To me behavioural assessment is more important than language
[0:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: This can be hidden professionally!
[0:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Must be English!
[0:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Both!
[0:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: yes, but people behaviour change over time, I have old old chinese seniors who hates Japan and America, they embrace China
[0:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: or don't haha
[0:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: because of their past experience with the Japs and American in the early years
[0:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: This should show after getting permanent residency status!
[0:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Terrie Wong: Agreed. I was at a fast food front counter once & the guy who was to take orders couldn't understand a bit of English so there was a bottle-neck at the counter because there were Malays, Indians & elderly Chinese who couldn't speak Mandarin!
[0:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Great policy!
[0:23 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. First thing, information to gather - what are Singapore losing if we insist all new citizens must pass English test before they are granted citizenship:-
a. Will we be losing investors that create alot of jobs for Singaporeans?
b. Will Singapore be losing important talents that we sorely need?
In the absence of such information, I will not be foolhardy to insist all new citizens must pass English test before granting citizenship.
2. Eg. I come across french boss, Japanese boss, China national boss, Italian boss, Indonesian boss - who cannot speak well in English - but they are the decision makers that will setup companies creating thousands of jobs in Singapore.
3. There are also foreigners who have special talents for cutting edge technology who barely can speak English.
[0:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Terrie Wong: I think simple or basic English is a must, just like for our helpers.
[0:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "English, Malay, Chinese and Tamil are our four official languages, with Malay the national language and English the main language of commerce and administration."
- - One Solid Foundation - SG
Let's discuss and find new meaningful ways for the incoming new people (aka Talents)!
Thank you.
[0:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we insisit people to speak english ask within your own family if your kids can speak your own dialect first bet many cannot nor can even understand. is our own roots language
[0:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: give and take lah why act high class
[0:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: haha We need to form our own Singapore language like papua new guinea haha
[0:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: u go other country they got insist you speak japanese, thai, cantonese, etc etc
[0:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if all lang fail den use universal lang hand signals lor
[0:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I heard some old folks are saddened by the speak Mandarin culture, we lost our heritage/roots
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: already lost ages and if you read certain book, it is a decision which was regret
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: ๐๐๐ช๐☝️
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: ๐
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: whats the freaking problem so one day if a certain local race auntie come to me and buy food and cannot comms in english den what
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: agree
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: use sign language
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i also dis her for being NON ENGLISH SPEAKING when she is 100% merdeka auntie
[0:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[0:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: please reh dun make a ant sounds like a dinosaur
[0:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: ๐
[0:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: A recent example at ntuc supermarket which caught the attention of Ho Ching!
[0:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no wonder seriously singaporeans this terms is detest by some countries in our region -> asia
[0:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we are already well known for complaining royalties
[0:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: now new title self entitlement .....
[0:29 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
4. All the more, insisting their spouse to pass English test is a bit too long a stretch.
[0:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: have anyone read about article about how Singaporeans go oversea and hide our identify ..... cos we think we are god like from heaven perfect in every way
[0:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: in short we live in a society give and take, be kind and understanding
[0:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Got link? interesting!
[0:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: not all humans are made the same not to mentioned some are from overseas (well they too better behave when here)
[0:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: some are not well behave
[0:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i think can search for it Jimmy but one think for sure some thais in bkk dun like us
[0:31 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
5. Singapore is a little red dot, one of the smallest country in the world, wonder will investors and talents choose Singapore to sink their root here if we are unreasonable demanding?
[0:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: incidences in condos and hdb attest to it
[0:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: my foreign superior says, Singapore is like a fortress, safe, rule of law, good transportation, good education, good airlines, can travel for holidays and Singaporean are not racist, Freedom of speech, safe to walk at night etc etc
[0:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: we all wanna migrate overseas haha
[0:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: and learn Thai, Vietnamese, why do we do that because to integrate into the village life
[0:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: and met with the locals
[0:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: maybe singaporeans
[0:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: attitude different
[0:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Are you sure the person taking ng order is Singapore Citizen and not on WP/EP?
[0:34 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
6. Both my parents until now can't speak English.
But my parents have breed a vast descendants of graduates in many fields for Singapore - now all can speak and write good English and Chinese.
He also created more than 10 companies - 2 are public listed creating many jobs.
[0:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: ๐๐๐
[0:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Blady hypocrites
[0:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: But arrogant !?
[0:38 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. I am of the opinion that the person who are investors or talents contributing to Singapore economy will have at least conversation English.
(Need not be an English test)
2. Spouse (English competency is optional).
3. Children that enrol in Singapore schools will be conversant in English and a 2nd language.
[0:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: For #2, those ultra rich from arab..?
[0:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Facts: only a handful of people can be fluent in two languages!
Exceptional, translating from one language into another language according to each grammatical rules and instantaneous?
Either-or, proficient on one Language and less on the other language!
[0:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Terrie Wong: Young foreigner. Kept looking at his colleagues for help in translation into Mandarin.
[0:39 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Yes.
[0:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Due to current situation in eastern Europe, there are moving of talents (non English speaking) from Europe. Singapore maybe need to consider giving exemptions for these and others group
[0:41 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. My father only speak mandarin, dialects and Malay but no English.
[0:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Just curious, Is any ultra-rich family members all write English well?
[0:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: For me, all points English!
[0:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Not likely
[0:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: They might need to be exempted from test...
[0:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Not a good idea
[0:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Switzerland's financial talent speaks German or French (their official language). This group of talent and their client might not be good candidates of citizen if no exemption given for the English written test.
[0:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: We are Singapore!
[0:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Agree.
English is the common language tt is used here for business and for common interaction among the rest of us.
Due to our diversity in cultures, achieving at least a Basic standard in Conversational English and in Reading English shd form part of the citizenship appn process.
Also agreed it shd extend to foreign spouses .
I hv also encountered instances wher I've bn told : "No need to learn English ... Chinese is good enough ... "
So, does tt mean that speaker only wants to keep to his ethnicity and not bother to integrate w the rest of SG society?
English is the common language tt binds our multi-racial society and fosters unity among us.
If we allow foreigners - who dun care for our way of life - to become citizens , purely for their own sel…
[0:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: English is a commercial language unless the parent's company is superior technology or new. Then don't need. Like China now
[0:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: We're a nation of immigrants. We need a common language to bond
[0:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Definitely!
[1:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Government strategic.. we have all languages for the major economies.
[1:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Yes.
We r not talking TOEFL here, but just Simple Standard English as one wud use in every day communication - like basic greeting, ordering of food at hawker ctr , paying for groceries at supermart, chatting w nbrs ...
[1:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Some of my friends who are scholars in the earlier days speak French and German
[1:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: But culturally Singaporean loves Cha kway teow, pigs trotters
[1:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Terrie Wong: Even China found it fit to make Mandarin, a Beijing dialect in 1911 to unite the people of many Chinese dialects & sub-dialects into a common language.
[1:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Imagine if China don't speak English will they advance as quickly?
[1:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Certain values in them have changed too
[1:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Caleb: +1
[1:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Oh ... For integration, I wud like to suggest ...
Compulsory community work for , say, 20 hours (5 half days) ...
Hopefully, this wl gv the 'aspiring' new citizen a first-hand insight into our local culture & get them to think harder abt integration ,
and not just getting citizenship.
[1:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Exactly!
[1:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Haha why reach in English hmmm
[1:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Investors dun necessarily wanna be Citizens!
They just wanna make money & see profits, continued growth!
Jobs 'created' by Investors shd be gg to Locals, Not Foreign Talent! (subject for another day).
So, I dun see relevance here for talking abt 'Investors'.
[1:12 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Haidilao, Facebook co-founder, Lee Lian Jie - and plenty more.
[1:12 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://theindependent.sg/china-born-billionaire-li-xiting-continues-to-top-singapores-richest-list-with-22b-net-worth/
China-born billionaire Li Xiting continues to top Singapore’s richest list, with $22B net worth
[1:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: We need investors because they bring their families and whole Village here for integration
[1:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Population boom and voters
[1:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: And keeping property prices up
[1:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: And spend. The we charge GST
[1:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Not all but unfortunately we can observe many nowadays fall in this group
[1:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +~L: Americans do, because they are charged tax in their world-wide earnings, no matter where they live. They have to relinquish their US Passport to avoid this massive taxburden. Singapore is a number one choice, due to lower tax, stable government and high level of security.
[1:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Like I said, they dun nd to be citizens in order to invest.
We r talking abt incl some basic literacy in English as part of the appn criteria for citizenship.
[1:16 pm, 05/04/2023] +Suma pamu: +1
[1:16 pm, 05/04/2023] +~L: It does help though if there is a common language.
[1:16 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
"Real life Crazy Rich Asians: 10 of the richest people in Singapore in 2023"
https://sg.style.yahoo.com/10-richest-people-singapore-2023-032336300.html#:~:text=All%20rights%20reserved.-,Real%20life%20Crazy%20Rich%20Asians%3A%2010%20of%20the%20richest%20people%20in%20Singapore%20in%202023,-Trinetra%20Paul
[1:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +~L: Yes, agreed. Should be for anyone with a LTP and up, maybe a higher test for Citizen and PR, lower level test for residents on other passes.
[1:21 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Half of Singapore richest billionaires are investors and foreigners turn new citizens.
[1:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Well, based on everyone's input here,
it wud seem tt it's up to the incumbent if he thinks it's worth his/her while to jump thru an extra hoop to gain citizenship.
I mean, if China has taken steps to change some of its ways of communucating w the rest of the world, then surely, if the 'investor' sees value in conversion, despite the extra hurdle, he/she wud still go for it, dun u think?
Besides, like I said, we r not testing rocket science English here, just for our own (Singaporean) assurance tt the new citizen wud be able (and is willing to) integrate w us on our home turf. ๐คช
[1:29 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3199336/hong-kong-must-launch-new-investment-products-tax-incentives-compete-singapore-family-offices-scmp
Hong Kong must launch new investment products, tax incentives to compete with Singapore for family offices, SCMP panel told.
Hong Kong has all the fundamentals required for being a family office hub, Credit Suisse specialist says.
Greater Bay Area will also help city attract such firms, Raffles Family Office executive says.
[1:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: ... and not either stick to their own community (cos alredi hv relatives/frens here) or see themselves as superior over the rest of us or try to impose their own brand of communication on us.
[1:31 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore if adding additional restrictions - will have to compete hard with HK and other countries to get this ultra rich investors to set up office and turn citizens.
Our magnet for ultra rich is not a given.
If we lose such people sinking roots here - be prepare to lose good jobs.
[1:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Besides including working knowledge basic English (spoken & reading), wat abt putting in Community Service , to encourage integration ?
[1:33 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.scmp.com/business/money/article/3215728/hong-kongs-moneymaking-genes-help-it-trump-charmless-frankfurt-la-and-singapore-says-tycoon-ronnie
Hong Kong’s ‘moneymaking genes’ help it trump charmless Frankfurt, LA and Singapore, says tycoon Ronnie Chan.
Hong Kong’s strategic location, its role in the Greater Bay Area, its government and its ‘moneymaking genes’ make it a natural choice for families and family offices looking to establish a presence in Asia-Pacific, Chan says.
Investments that have flocked to Singapore can return to Hong Kong, tycoon tells the Post.
[1:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Agree to disagree.
I dun think these ppl wl go away just becoz of us making English - which is the working language anyway - a part of admission criteria !
[1:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Hong Kong worse -- English + Cantonese !
M not sure if it's official criteria but such investors wud also face similar communication issues.
[1:37 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
In greater bay area, Singapore r&d people station there only speak mandarin to the China national.
They don't speak English.
[1:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: " Who needs Who most!"
PR or Citizenship?
Does the English language matters to qualify for PR or Citizenship or other tangibles and or intangibles matter most?
[1:46 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Who need who most.
This is the crux and the root of the whole issue.
[1:47 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore a little red dot need the rest of the world more.
This is the crux!
[1:51 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
NUS and NTU internship in the greater bay area only speak mandarin there.
They won't speak English to the interns.
[1:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Enough to cause unhappiness and resentment!
[1:54 pm, 05/04/2023] +Sam: I do know that there are many Vietnamese bride that can't speak English. They have no problem living here as they can communicate in Mandarin. Now, tell the Singaporean husband that their wife will not be granted PR or citizenship because of the English test. Let's see how they react.
[1:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree. In Rome, do as the romans do@
[1:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly maybe I should ask how many public sector ppl interact with new citizen privately and personally . Than we can see if that hold true
[1:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Still needed!
[1:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Sam: Ultimately, if the citizens are staying here for good, they will pick up a language that will convenient them in daily living
[1:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: The constitution might need to amended for clause 123 (1) (e)
[1:56 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
When I did some eco-city projects with China - they only speak mandarin through video conferencing.
All paper and report submitted must be mandarin.
Else we can't do their projects which are multi million or billions of $.
[1:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Danni, coming out of the rainstorm of words!
Bingo!
Thank you!
[1:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: He can pass emglish test right?
[1:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "Before you decide to migrate to a new country (new environment), you will check many THINGS out! When you arrive into this new place (new home), you will begin your new journey to live and to work or to meaningfully put your big money to work even harder for you and your previous home (old) original)! It takes time for you to immerse and truly understand the new place ethos, cultures, ethnicity and local politics! Only if you are ready to cement your feet into this new haven, you will naturally pursue the path for a Permanent stay or even attempt to be part of the actions, aka citizen!
Summary: it takes guts, convictions and time to decide on these life decisions, it's not about one person, it involves the entire family and the future generations! Candidly …
[1:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Good point.
Having said tt, it takes 2 to ๐๐ป clap.
Integration works both ways. ๐
[1:58 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
He probably say, you want money and jobs or want me to pass English test?
[1:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Both!
[1:59 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If you say both, I think Singapore GDP could be cut by half - as many such rich new citizens will go elsewhere.
Why Singapore?
[2:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: You mean gdp is because the rich mean their is a even bigger problem Incone unequally
[2:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Still Both!
[2:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: The financial/investment world is very complicated and competitive among countries. I saw the news that Thailand is pushing out a VIP program for foreigners.
[2:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
According to a survey commissioned by Channel News Asia, it was noted that a large majority of Singapore-born citizens believe that an English test should be part of the country’s citizenship application process. 80 per cent of 500 Singapore-born citizens polled were in favour of an English test being part of the country’s citizenship application process.
๐ฌ What are your views on the suggestion that an English test should be part of Singapore’s citizenship application process? How can we ensure that new citizens are able to integrate into our society?
On Feb 27 during the Committee of Supply debates, Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh said that he would advocate for an English test when assessing a person’s application for citizenship or …
[2:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: GDP = private consumption + gross private investment + government investment + government spending + (exports – imports)
[2:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Private investment is a pillar in gdp growth.
[2:02 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes.
I think many Singaporeans think that the world evolve around us - and do what we say.
Little do Singaporeans know how difficult we need to appeal to others to make ourselves competitive - rather than throwing spanner and obstacles to trip ourselves.
[2:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: They have their reasons
[2:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Like they say ..
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
So, if they wanna be citizens in SG, then flw our rules.
Having a basic command of English is an advantage and shd not be seen as discouragement!
The gov shd be careful on how they can sell this to the applicant & not create negative feelings towards this!
As for those locals whose spouses r foreigners, they shd encourage their spouses to go for English courses, or teach it themselves.
Why r our own 'locals' not supporting locals?
(r they 'converted citizens' themselves?)
๐ค
[2:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Exactly!
[2:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thai-elite-visa
Thailand pull factors for foreigners.
[2:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 April, 2023
'The Either-Or-All Tests!"
How to test language abilities?
Three broad based competencies; Basic, Intermediate and Professional
Each paradigm is a set of requirements and test standards crafted for both written (read) and verbal (converse). The higher the vocation (job) is the higher the language skills and abilities are required in each test module.
Basic Tests (Functional)
Basic Language can be daily simple understanding/listening and communication skills. A good language skills equivalent to the primary level of English language.
Intermediate Tests (Proficiency)
Intermediate is above the basic tests with higher standards taken from existing secondary school English language module of comprehension and oral examinations.
Profession…
[2:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Danny ...
We r talking about passing
Very Basic English
test here --- not even textbook!
Just simple use of every day English like greetings: How are you?" "I'm fine."
"How much is this plate of rice?"
- u mean , a biz man can't say tt, wher $$ is concerned?? ๐คญ
[2:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Maybe about integration maybe u all should check at those club in the east and yacht clubs and a lot of places . Than u tell me got integration or not :)) don’t tell me good time come sg to escape tax and work and got issue quick pack and left sg . The gdp got in this way is not a long term gdp .
[2:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[2:07 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Do Thailand require investors turn Citizens to be conversant in Thai before awarding citizenship?
I think Thai government not stupid.
[2:08 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then kindergarten English good enough?
[2:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: I wud say at least Pri 1 level.
This is acceptable.
[2:08 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My father know ABC..Z
[2:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Good point!
[2:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Good point.
[2:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: So those not doing it the last 18 years are not intelligent enough ?
[2:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: P6 please.
[2:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: No country would not be welcome...
If you have the big money to invest or you have the skillsets to contribute!
Exceptions will happen for these folks!
[2:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: A lot places got ancestor citizen ( meaning as long u can proof ur ancestor is Spain etc u can get back ur citizen ship ) sorry to say a example I remeber Spain got but can’t confirm now . So it really unfair to local
[2:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Haha!
See?
Ther r those who wud go for a higher std!
Fyi, P6 std of English nowadays is way too high ...
We, in SG, learn English as a 1st language ...
Therefore , to impose P6 std is not possible for the foreigner to meet.
I teach it every day ... Even your kids can't cope!
[2:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Noraini: My colleague is Japanese. His wife Malaysian. Both are blue IC
[2:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Nothing to do w being smart or not.
[2:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi RH, what is a P1 Standard of English?
Thank you.
[2:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Why they don’t want convert ?
[2:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Basic knowledge of the alphabet.
Able to converse & follow simple instructions in English.
As a 2nd language ...
Like how we learn our Mother Tongue languages.
[2:14 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore has 600,000 who are seniors many don't speak English.
They only speak mandarin, dialects, malay, tamil.
Yet they can call themselves Singaporeans and can integrate very well.
Kampong style.
[2:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Noraini,
It's been a while...
Japanese culture has a long history! It's an exclusive community!
Their visas are for work/studies purposes, strictly no PR or Citizenship!
[2:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Over a long period of immersion.
[2:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Good point!
[2:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: I think even they convert they can convert back to Japanese if they proof they are Japanese ancestry.
[2:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: But not sure if applied to now
[2:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Every country has its own rules, needs & wants.
We r a sovereign nation.
We shd set our own standards, as we hv always done.
[2:19 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Even Malaysia grant premium visa for wealthy investors - no need to take malay test.
Singaporeans think that wealthy people only want to come to Singapore?
HK, Thailand, Malaysia and many others are going for the same small group of wealthy people to be citizens - yet Singapore want to give ourselves obstacles and make our job difficult.
[2:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: If that the case we can try a year as 80% agree to it
[2:20 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
End up most wealthy investors give us a miss - and we become a poorer country if we are too egoistic.
[2:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Don't go soft!
[2:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: haiya why force ppl to take test
[2:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly they still can get PR . As per my opinion PR no different from citizen
[2:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: they dun learnt they will be in a corner of the society and will eliminate themselves out
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also many who get PR here u really think they wanna stay here
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I force you to take mandarin test, you want or not?
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: U think the weathly will care to integrate with us ?
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: from s pass to ep to pr most are using here as a spring baord wake up reh
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hahahha take local dialect test
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no pass no stay here
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cannot pass singlish get out !
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hahahahaa
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Heng ah I can pass
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I force you to take Tamil test you want or not?
[2:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Isn't this basic assessment currently done by ICA staff who process the application? ๐ค
[2:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: in short just be cordial to each other
[2:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: one hand wanna be open society lah, be in the world ranking but on the other hand want this and that
[2:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Not part of community bonding!
[2:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just let them be lah
[2:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: come to cdb u think many o fthe whites speak english
[2:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: when they flock together with their own kind is back to their comfort lang again (french, german, etc etc etc )
[2:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: That u go to the yacht club u can see got integration or not lol
[2:23 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
China will overtake and become the largest economy.
Mandarin become predominant not English.
[2:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: go changi business park tell me got integration anot , speaking english?
[2:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Local do grab ppl sunshine at beach wor
[2:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Wealthy people, if they are sgprean isn't should they integrate and develop Singapore together?
[2:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just behave when in rome be a fake roman lor
[2:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: give a reason for them to integrate ...
[2:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: they will only mingle with people from their circle not integrate if i put in plainly
[2:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: I think so as well
[2:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sorry for my lang but what shit the general public can give them in return
[2:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: when the real drivers and wealth can give them more with the correct connection so what even if they do not speak english ....
[2:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: as long as it is a bridge to the market that is making their dollar grow
[2:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Hmm ... ๐ค
[2:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: seriously dun take thing till so far put ourselves as tourist to other countries do we behave like them or we still behave like who we are and from
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: They set up a company in Singapore, hire staffs and bring in investment, and their circle will be bigger than their group, isn't it?
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: not all wealthy need to set up a company here
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. China GDP $19 trillion
US GDP $23 trillion.
2. China debt $9 trillion
US debt $32 trillion.
3. China reserves $3 trillion.
US reserves $129 billion.
China already becoming the largest economy overtaking US.
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Good point.
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: have u not know there is this think call pte banking and investment
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: even if open business u think the boss is really working
[2:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: owner do not work
[2:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: he paid ppl like u me and 90% of the society to work to make their money grow
[2:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hard truth people
[2:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "There are choices to make in life and this case is about identity (unity), existence (more than survival) and economics (even more than jobs and prosperity)! "
- - anonymity
[2:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: time for us singaporeans to stop being so atas and royalty
[2:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: One thing at a time.
We wl cross tt bridge when we come to it.
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun forget we live in a society like ants and bees we need each other
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Good point!
Step by Step!
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we can be an example globally how different lang can co-exist
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Good point, Ah Heng!
Thank you
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if still dun understand
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: The private bank running in singapore + the office of ultra rich management, lawyers, accountants, private bankers, financial advisors etc maybe those living in Singapore
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
India is up and coming economic power - force you to take Tamil test.
You want or not?
[2:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: go walk china town
[2:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: there is this street where chinese temple, indian temple and mosque all sit along this same street tell me which part o fthe world u can find this
[2:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: In India, English is a language of commerce.
Thank you.
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Great point!
Thanks, Ah Heng!
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and frankly in those years when this happens english is not the core lang and neither did either of the 3 caretakers (i believe demand english be made a common lang) for them to understand each other
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: We shd know OUR Worth & Value.
Be proud of it.
Dun bow to wat others think.
If u wanna balance investors vs ordinary citizenship, then draw the guidelines ...
But still hv some semblance of English literacy as a norm.
Or choose btn English literacy and Community Service ??
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so why if our forefather can do it we cannot and try to act smart
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Many Indian who are in Singapore don't speak English.
I use sign language to talk to them.
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just because of a few years of school and some toilet papers certs to certify your are educated!?
[2:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: What jobs are they holding?
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Contractors.
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: even if they do frankly hard to understand
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Got to verify certificates!
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not about able to speak is more of able to speak in such people understand you
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and frankly i think singlish do very well in this area hahahahaa
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes.
That's why I use sign language.
But they are very nice chaps.
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Assence...just like Singlish!
[2:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Exactly!
[2:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[2:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: see universal lang -> it works always
[2:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Exactly
[2:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no lah is AB-sence hahahahaha
[2:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Frankly if reach have eye and ears u will see most complaints made are actually drill down to the basic things in lifes as in respect and understanding
[2:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Exactly!
[2:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like how ft are saying rents are killing them ..
[2:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: well if cost of living is not high will rents be increased also there is demand and supply
[2:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Just when one thinks she/he speaks proper English, however, it may not necessarily be comprehensible to other English speaking folks...?
[2:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Relevant!
[2:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Still, our own identity is important!
[2:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so they expect us to lower our earning while feeding a high cost of living while they enjoy lower cost of leaving hey equation not match
[2:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Important too!
[2:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: u mean too chim or too slangg for people to understand hahahahaha
[2:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Mutual Respect!
Ah Heng, Ahh!
You got it!
Thank you!
[2:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thanks smiling face .. i think that's what make us human society a society
[2:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: else we will be like animals society who in fact fare much better than us
[2:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: respect and empathy for each other
[2:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like what is happening in the States .. do we want to degrade to that level where they are the royal and the rest of the world is peasants
[2:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Each English speaking nation has its own lingo...
These are NON (non native) English speaking countries.
UK, US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc...they are known as ENGLISH SPEAKING SOCIETIES/COUNTRIES!
Thank you!
[2:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Too extreme division!
[2:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ok good clarification but personally i dun care
[2:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Mutual respect, dignity and empathy!
Never be PRESUMPTIONS over one another!
Thank you, Ah Heng!
[2:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if the country speak english i speak if not i will try to be a fake local and well sign lang with them hahahaha
[2:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Mute?
[2:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: even in singapore like mentioned early if i bump into someone who well dun understand singlish or english or whatever lang
[2:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Your dressing will tell if you are a local or a foreigner!
No hiding!
Thank you
[2:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: best part help the person out is simple by pointing / drawing / or techy use google translator
[2:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Clever! Using technology and hp!
[2:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cannot tell u but those who go oversea will know to react ...
[2:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but agree many singapore very easy to id wan from jb to kl to vietnam to bkk to japan to china to eu
[2:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: darn bloody easy ... we are as easily id as those prc (ok they loud mouth and extreme dressing hahahahaha)
[2:43 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: One comment is, Singaporeans tend to speak louder than others? Is it true?
[2:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: depending on who they are with ... but this i agree with feedback from local in that few popular destination in our region singapore are easy to id
[2:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not only accent but the way we carry ourselves
[2:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: anyway lets not divert
[2:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: lang is only one form of communication there are other ways to communicate
[2:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun let ONE ENGLISH lang and thus create a fuss when attention can be better spend
[2:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: am not sure how well will we be if we became a society like japan where is japanese only or french only or german only or dutch only
[2:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Hope not ever!
[2:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i believe we all know how holy the french take their lang and culture ....u will be French by them even if you speak french but use the wrong whatever noun / verb etc
[2:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: japanese still pretty ok they most they luff at your at your back
[2:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but here at least my observation i cannot speak for all
[2:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we dun luff we help each other
[2:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like how aunties help each other in the market
[2:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sure we are not as friendly as the 60-80s society and time but hey there is still that Singaporean sprit in us somewhere inside
[2:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yup
[2:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Ok Ah Heng,
One long essay akan datang...
Your critic (่ฏ่ฎบ)
Thank you.
[2:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 April, 2023
" Who needs Who most!"
EP or PR or Citizenship?
Does the English language matters to qualify for PR or Citizenship or other tangibles and or intangibles matter most?
For working purposes, the command of English is important!
A different ballgame, to integrate into a society; it takes more time to achieve the melting pot effect, that is able to blend-in and mixing around with the locals.
"Before you decides to migrate to a new country (new environment), you will check many THINGS out! When you arrived into this new place (new home), you will begin your new journey to live and to work or to meaningful put your big money to work even harder for you and your previous home (old) original)! It takes time for you to immerse and truly understa…
[2:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to that aunty who dis the super market person maybe she having her pms and is shitting in one corner right now (cos for all that we know she is not such a person)
[2:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: wah boss long story can cut short
[2:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: this one i agree -> A different ballgame, to integrate into a society; it takes more time to achieve the melting pot effect, that is able to blend-in and mixing around with the locals!
[2:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Your critic please ่ฏ่ฎบ!
[2:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: my view arhhh
[2:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: More..
Thank you
[2:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: ๐๐คฆ♂️๐ณ
[2:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: 0 ..... no comments i am serious cos some part of teh article make sense
[2:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but it might not digest to all
[2:54 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like this -> Language, human speaking, is a social and cultural means of communications and adaptation purposes.
[2:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: agree and it make sense is a language and how many lang are there in the world to certain extend in some society hand lang is better than the spoke .. italian if not wrong ask them whats the sign to eat and ahem to scold people .. it easily id
[2:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: communication take forms in many ways
[2:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: english is just one of the many platforms
[2:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: agree on this also ->
[2:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Summary: it takes guts, convictions and time to decide on these life decisions, its not about one person, it involves the entire family and the future generations!
[2:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and of cos an objective for the calculative ones -> get pr then stay a few years and apply for another country ....
[2:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: end of the day do i want to test people for lang skills -> bloody hell no
[2:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: for what seriously .....
[2:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: As part of what!?
[2:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cos humans are intelligent animals we will adapt and pick up skills though not 100% like the native but will still know how to mince a word or too and a small understanding of what that particular lang is
[2:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: come on no one is born to know how to walk
[2:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we learnt and adapt
[3:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: again those atas one who refused will be alienated and they will move on to another shore so why bother
[3:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so everyone take a breather and enjoy the day with or without english ya
[3:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun bash the other who cannot speak english
[3:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: very interesting to see the 2 camps also yes and no
[3:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: To some extent ...
Test 'sincerity' in whether they truly wanna be part of our society or is it just for their own convenience?.
That's why having a 'simple' test is good enuff, for now.
To hv 'better quality' new citizens who wl uphold our SG harmony for generations to come.
[3:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sorry but that is useless
[3:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: u mean now those who come here and work are quality people also meh
[3:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: their objective is to work
[3:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: get monthly paid
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: will they tell u ooo i want to be part of your society
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: We r talking abt applying for citizenship.
Not all who come here to work wl apply.
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is bull shit i say
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: No
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to them is more of i wanna come here work because the money is good, cost of living is low but do i wanna be one of the so call singaporean gang answer is NO
[3:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: because end of the day my real family is back there where i come from
[3:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[3:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes!
[3:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so what if you move ur roots to say downunder
[3:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: majority of your family your memories your freinds are still here
[3:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: So, we r not discussing this grp of ppl. ๐
[3:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: maybe one's kid will feel belong to the new land but many will still feel attached to where the land one is born
[3:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but if we are saying to work in a company one need certain lang yes that i agree
[3:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like japan company up from u have what jpl etc etc
[3:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: chinese company you know chinese etc etc this is not call lang discrimination but skill
[3:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: because one will be a bridge between the 2 worlds
[3:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: anyway my stance ... is dam bo liao to what english test lor
[3:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: seriously ....
[3:08 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Time's up for me ...
Gotta start work.
But like I said earlier,
Yes!
Hv basic English literacy (as a 2nd lang) incl in appn criteria.
Also consider Community Service ...
Bye, all!
Nice chatting w u...
Pls continue ...
๐
[3:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not like we exclusive only die die sppeak one bloody english lang here
[3:09 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we are mutli racial society aka many langagues also mah
[3:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: My work ...
Teaching kids like yours ... English as a 1st language !!!
Reach ... U can contact me to help u craft out the guidelines . . I m serious ! ๐
[3:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "Reasonable and Moderate" "bersikap munasabah dan jangan melampau"
"ไธๅไธๅ, ๆๆ ไธๆฃ"
[3:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: unless now got new definition multi racial but only and strongly and dam insist communicate in english for society -> that seems what is being push for by a small portion of the society
[3:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[3:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ehh copy right reh 881.....
[3:11 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: jit lang jit pua ... gam qing buay suahhhh
[3:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: jit lang jit su kuuuuu, gam qing jia eh kooooo
[3:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: opss sorry i speak hokkien hahahah joking lah
[3:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 50/50
[3:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Thank you, Ah Heng for your kind critic!
[3:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is comment not critic i no study wan
[3:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: only psle cert only
[3:13 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Me, fluent English spoken and written but broken hokkien and malay spoken only
[3:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Lagi satu essay datang, sila komen, terima kasih!
[3:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just wanna hope we dun change into some cold heartless society just to be on par and look good on global level
[3:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i really wan our young to carry on this uniquely singapore platform
[3:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: One more essay...
[3:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 April, 2023
'The Either-Or-All Tests!"
How to test language abilities?
Three broad based competencies; Basic, Intermediate and Professional
Each paradigm is a set of requirements and test standards crafted for both written (read) and verbal (converse). The higher the vocation (job) is the higher the language skills and abilities are required in each test module.
Basic Tests (Functional)
Basic Language can be daily simple understanding/listening and communication skills. A good language skills equivalent to the primary level of English language.
Intermediate Tests (Proficiency)
Intermediate is above the basic tests with higher standards taken from existing secondary school English language module of comprehension and oral examinations.
Profession…
[3:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if anyone forget what i mean remember this street always in chinatown where a chinese temple, indian temple and a mouse sits .....
[3:15 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My close friend comments:-
I might have missed the point on why an English test should be part of Singapore's citizenship application process.
I cannot appreciate this proposition.
It sounds very micro. I would expect Singapore leaders to have much broader perspectives, being far-sighted, and able to perform deep thinking. Surely there must be a framework of criteria for approving citizens?
Yes?
Then it follows that, there should be a basket of considerations within the framework?
Are there any mandatory criteria?
How is English speaking importance compared to these mandatory criteria?
[3:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that is we -> singapore
[3:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Ah Heng?
[3:16 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: den where does us the citizens fall in
[3:16 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: remember we are educated in english based school from age 3-0 levels (18 yrs of age)
[3:16 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: before we classify others dare we classify ourselves ?
[3:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: bet some of us cannot even understand what is a action noun or noun or verb or past tense or present tense
[3:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: this just reminds me of japan
[3:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and if i am say really an investor seeing such requirement i will be like wth, i am giving you money to grow and still have to be scrutinsed by your language gate keeper -> hey singapore see this 10billion is going to Thailand where i can get better returns......bigger resources pool .... plenty of human for work and a fraction of what u have here .. u know what keep your English test to urself me and my circled of friend will avoid u ...
[3:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: If English a criteria, my parents won't meet it and become a Singaporean. And I won't be a Singaporean who serve the Army and contribute to the economy. This criteria is a very short sighted. English is considered as working language. Should we consider mother tongue as a criteria instead or speak singlish as a criteria to show we are Singaporean.
[3:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: This criteria of English is a insult to older generation and my generation. A lot of people in my generation don't speak good english
[3:21 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Agree.
[3:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: frankly even a auntie who is 60 who cannot speak english but if she is in fnb as a hawker and cook good food ... i think that is more important .. cos she is doing the society a service -> another good food place .. who cares she speak english .. ppl walk up just point here and there
[3:22 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Exactly.
[3:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: wahhh u warm the hum of my heart
[3:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: such word insult hahahahahaha
[3:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if me i think i will use rainbow lang
[3:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: see me no up is it hahahaha because me no understand and speaking english
[3:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: frankly who came up this idea hahahaha sorry
[3:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if it appear in parliment serious why are we paying people to come up such idea when there are others more concern
[3:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like USD dollars dropping
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: actually WP Pritam in parliament ....
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: how we are being caught in us /china ties
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: omg i tot is from psp reh
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ehhh mai reh
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: respect to mr low arhhh
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: he also dun speak very good ang mo ok
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Thomas,
Perhaps this English test is meant for incoming people who are seeking employment.
Thank you.
[3:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sometimes i dun understand his ang mo also better he speaking cheinse
[3:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Times have changed
[3:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: times will change again when china is part of a global lang
[3:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: then what we have to add chinese to the list
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: This case is referring to our Seniors and not a new person who will work at any premise.
Thank you.
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: Are we looking at Ang moh countries for immigrants ?
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: den when india become another world power another layer hahahahahaha
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: never ending
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just give and take lah
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: aiyo
[3:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: ๐คท♂️
[3:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: English criteria smell of elitisms and xenophobic
[3:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: We want quality people to uplift our economy to a new high... hopefully we are able to attract by the Quantity too?
Not referring to ourselves.
Thank you.
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: We need immigrants who can work in Engineering . They don't come from Ang moh countries
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: ENGLISH is a common language for commercial purposes.
Chinese Language is just as important too, to link China, Taiwan and other Chinese speaking people/communities.
Thank you.
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: actually there is a saying if one wants anything good internally it must starts from within .. think there is a discussion on also are we doing enuff within. if yes why are the MNCs still crying no singapore u dun have that talent we need
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: seriously how many uni we have
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: how many poly we have
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: how many ite we have
[3:28 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My close friend comments:-
Does sg give out citizenship easily? I wonder. I would presume the applicants must have stayed in Singapore for some time, if not, quite a number of years? How did they survive or go around without knowing some English? And is that insufficient? What level of English test is the applicant supposedly required to pass? Written? Conversational? Colloquial Singlish? Integrating into Singaporean culture, values and way of living encompasses much more!
I have encountered on 2 occasions, foreign students who each take up 2 seats for themselves on public buses. Sat on 1 seat and put their bags on the other seat when the bus was packed with rush hour passengers. I asked one of them to remove her bag as I felt strongly I needed to educate her. On the other occasion, the bus was so packed I could not go near the student. They both alighted at French International School located in Serangoon.
If we have an equivalent of Jack Ma who can't speak/write English, we denial him of citizenship? But he can afford to build a world class english school and surround himself with English translators!
I agree English is very important in Singapore but debating having an English test as a pass fail/ criteria for citizenship is so narrow.
[3:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: each ploy and ite how many courses is being offer
[3:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: What if an organisation has all nationalities in it?
What will be the common language of communication?
Internally and externally?
Thank you.
[3:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: spot on -> I agree English is very important in Singapore but debating having an English test as a pass fail/ criteria for citizenship is so narrow.
[3:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Good point
[3:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: -> this is another example of so what if cannot speak english but is an assets -> If we have an equivalent of Jack Ma who can't speak/write English, we denial him of citizenship? But he can afford to build a world class english school and surround himself with English translators!
[3:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: There is a need for commonality or there will be communication breakdown and there goes opportunities and income challenges?
[3:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Integration is needed with a common language
[3:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: Er ...
I think we shd be thinking forward ...
as in letting in new citizens who wl form the backbone of the next gen ...
By then, all of us wud either be over 60 or the even older ones wud hv retired. Does not matter any more.
Look at the no. of hawker stalls now tt hv either new citizens running them or younger folk who wan to be their own bosses ...
Sori .. Can't help commenting.
[3:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Of course there are exceptions, in the long essay it stated that exceptions and step by step approach.
Thank you, Ah Heng!
[3:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and when mr LKY was integrating singapore was there a common lang ?
[3:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: NO
[3:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: he spoke in all the bloody local lang he knew to comms with people
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thus again is a display of understanding
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "English, Malay, Chinese and Tamil are our four official languages, with Malay the national language and English the main language of commerce and administration."
- - One Solid Foundation - SG
"่ฑ่ฏญ, ้ฉฌๆฅ่ฏญ, ๅ่ฏญๅๆณฐ็ฑณๅฐ่ฏญๆฏๆไปฌ็ๅ็งๅฎๆน่ฏญ่จ, ้ฉฌๆฅ่ฏญๆฏๅฝ่ฏญ, ่ฑ่ฏญๆฏไธป่ฆ็ๅไธๅ่กๆฟ่ฏญ่จ."
- - ไธไธชๅๅฎ็ๅบ็ก - SG
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: of cos in teh end he force all chinese to speak mandarin and killed our local dialect culture
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ooo shit did u say malay as well
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: den die lah
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: many dun speak malay also
[3:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: espically in the 90s
[3:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: oo nooo then how
[3:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: must go take malay test for non malay local citizen
[3:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no right
[3:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +RH: .... So, we need to start from somewhere ...
right? ๐คช
[3:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: It was to be in the making
[3:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: One commonality.
[3:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: That was the idea
[3:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: How many dialects in China itself?
Is HanYu (simple Chinese) a commonality that binds the entire China as ONE?
Thank you.
[3:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Thank you, is it valid today!
Thanks Andrew!.
[3:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: something LKY did also mah.. but in here we have different race ... there is almost all same race and same culture
[3:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but we still fare better -> despite not having a common lang we still came out as a peaceful loving society
[3:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: I doubt it is valid today!
[3:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: ๐ Internally is Singlish . Dealing with external party, we have the manager or supervisor . But during this period before they become supervisor, they go for English class or daily conversing will pick up . After a few years , they can make it My point is that, we do not just look at English as criteria, it is very elitist thinking. If you don't speak English , you are lower class and cannot be a citizen . We have to consider all factors of a person before granting citizenship
[3:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Why so?
Pls critic, thanks Andrew.
[3:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: elitist thinking - > very self center self upright mindset ...
[3:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if i may add
[3:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also if we wanna really blame someone
[3:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hey dun blame the person coming here to work
[3:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: blame the system ok
[3:43 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Thomas, great robust critics!
Slang ?
Slang or Singlish or American slang or British cockney.
These are local ethos and formed over time!
Nothing wrong, it's adaptable for foreigners who wish to blend in.
Thank you Thomas!
[3:43 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: Yes, hanyu is like English commercial language and official setting but at province level and home , their individual dialect
[3:43 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: In order to transmit and translate policies, meanings and usefulness!
Thanks Thomas!
[3:43 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Plastic on the surface to save face.
[3:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: why we need to import even a super market worker ....
[3:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Why a save face?
Pls elaborate with the example. Thanks
[3:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: why we getting more and more outsiders in front liner role
[3:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: Because cannot find local to do the job ....
[3:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: why our local cannot have skills to work in such environment
[3:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: Pay and long hours
[3:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: multipolar currency system brings the benefit of security, equality, and efficiency. I read it from an IMF article published in June 2019
[3:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is the answer is not cannot find is cannot give the pay .......
[3:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Talent or the best person for the job or relatives or friends or kaki to the job?
[3:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: Our local like Finance job, office type and good pay plus work life balance
[3:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: 2.5k how to suruve for a local family here ... with balance family life
[3:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: both papa and mama have to go out and slog
[3:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: the kid go child care
[3:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or kid run around like hooligans
[3:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: What is his party trying to bring to?
[3:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Thomas,
In some foreign banks, they pay very well and they EXPECT YOU to work EXCELLENTLY and overtime too!
No free lunch.
Thank your.
[3:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thus papa and mama have to take on more jobs to ensure family no cash flow issue kid still can have normal life
[3:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Interaction with others on the ground, in the neighbourhood and sometimes with civil servants is a feeling one get of the opposite.
[3:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes
[3:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi SL,
Which party?
Thank you.
[3:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so if the pay is right who will not take up
[3:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Does it mean the English test will cover the group of WP/EP/LTP/SP/PR/new citizens?
[3:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: This question is reserved for our Policymakers.
[3:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like if in aussie a plumper can earn about say 90k to 100k per annum why here cannot
[3:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Sh Koh: The policy maker decides. But setting a criteria is gd. Maybe can be point system. For different skills and lang is one of them.
[3:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: English is not primary language in Europe....
[3:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and japan i believe
[3:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and in china
[3:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and in bangkok i believe hahahahaha
[3:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or even in indonesia
[3:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: yes , but it is a working language .
[3:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: not really
[3:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dutch and german comms in german too
[3:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is only one of the platform for communication
[3:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: But with eternal party is english . I work with Dutch and French, they communicate with me in English but with accent
[3:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like in canada primary lang is french i think
[3:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: certain part of canada is french
[3:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but working lang is english but ppl still comms in french / english no must be in english
[3:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: There are a lot of engineers from European countries.. But not good at English. Engineers from Taiwan are not strong in English as well. Tsmc and Foxconn engineers should not be accepted?
[3:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: put across canada to bind is english
[3:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so let's be flexi when it comes to work people know what works best for them
[3:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: We should accept and why English as criteria .....
[3:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: to admit them
[3:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: when it comes to society we should know what is best but also be flexi ..
[3:54 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: should be flexible and ensure the policy comes out not be elitist . Else we breed elitisms
[3:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: imagine if eu country put in such a rule for and those man with spouse from thailand how ahhhhh
[3:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or vietnam
[3:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: very ke lian is like the govt tearing the couple apart or telling the guy u get out of the country to be with ur wife lor
[3:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but forgetting the longer run rewards if the family can live in the country happily and developed
[3:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Thomas: in other way, our Single Singaporean need to find a spouse who can speak good english else ......
[3:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sorry cannot liao
[3:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no more vietnam / thailand / laos / etc gf or wife ...
[3:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: This brings up a discussion point. If the candidate of a new citizen stayed and worked in Singapore for many years, it is presumed they communicate in English. What is the point of having an English test? Where will the English test be conducted? How much will the cost be, and which company will earn the revenue?
[3:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hahahahah cos usually these cannot speak very conversational english
[3:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: maybe our locals ladies will be happier cos now all the men dun have 2nd market to look at hahahahaha
[3:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Jack Ma is an English teacher; however, based on the opensource records, he seldom speaks English., if I m not wrong
[3:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: den whats our english level for working adults here ? before we test others should it not we test ourselves
[3:59 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Exactly
[3:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: proper business lang
[3:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no lah no lor
[4:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: proper verbs, nouns , tenses, punctuation , etc etc
[4:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
According to a survey commissioned by Channel News Asia, it was noted that a large majority of Singapore-born citizens believe that an English test should be part of the country’s citizenship application process. 80 per cent of 500 Singapore-born citizens polled were in favour of an English test being part of the country’s citizenship application process.
๐ฌ What are your views on the suggestion that an English test should be part of Singapore’s citizenship application process? How can we ensure that new citizens are able to integrate into our society?
On Feb 27 during the Committee of Supply debates, Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh said that he would advocate for an English test when assessing a person’s application for citizenship or …
[4:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: english proficiency and competency -> should be part of every company KPI going forth
[4:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: majority is blind and small minded ! ask them for a very solid rocket booster reason each
[4:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: most will echo the same sheep lang cos they read and spread from the same source
[4:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +TD: "Sociologists, Assistant Professor Shannon Ang from Nanyang Technological University weigh in on the topic and disapproved with the suggestion of an English test as it could favour people who have more resources. Fellow sociologist Tan Er Ser from the National University of Singapore concurred and pointed out that what should be looked at was whether applicants “have shown some significant evidence of integration into Singapore society and acceptance of our shared values and ethos”. "
I would value someone who wants to integrate into Singapore more than someone who just speaks good English
[4:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: another word from the ground GO FIGURE OUT WHY WE ARE CALL SHEEPS on global level
[4:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +TD: Look at the existing enclaves of Pinoy/CECA who speak English but make no attempt to integrate
[4:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun say them lah the whites also mah
[4:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: speak english
[4:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +TD: AMDK also
[4:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: do they integrate no
[4:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: they draw an invisible line me up you local down
[4:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or me white u no white
[4:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: who dun knwo
[4:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is just dun say niah cos we know they here not long will by by
[4:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sometimes is better to face the hard truth then to try and make people to live in a fairy tale odyssey
[4:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Credit Suisse overtaken by UBS
[4:10 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Elon Musk trying to revive SVB.
[4:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Why are we sheep?
[4:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 4 April, 2023
Will the World Bank (ไธ็้ถ่ก), going forward, play an even greater leadership role in the developing countries in particular, Africa and one of the lead financiers for the transformation of a carbon free world?
What commitments will the World Bank play in this unprecedented challenging time, the uncertain Geopolitics, the persistent inflation and the changing climate?
Does the World Bank see China as a funding partner or will China form a "Global Bank" to serve all developing nations and developed nations. In other words, China is becoming competitive and playing level with the World Bank?
Thank you.
[4:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: China will form a global bank
[4:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: One long essay ...
[4:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: will world bank force all to speak english hahahahaha
[4:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Svb (usa) took over by first citizen bank
Svb (uk) took over by hsbc
[4:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sorry take a english test before speaking hahahaha
[4:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 April, 2023
"New Power and Old Order!"
"It's all about lowering the cost of production!"
- - anonymity
Negaraku!
There is renewed hope in Malaysia to regain the lost decades of economic development! This well timed and troubled times will drive a new paradigm shift for Malaysia to collaborate with the Chinese from financial backings to talents moving from China into Malaysia for economic gains and prosperity! Simply unstoppable!
Malaysia, the latest RM170 billions trades by China is the strongest signal to ASEAN and the World that is China meant big business!
The recent PM visit to the Philippines has highlighted one uncomfortable truth, that is the sovereignty of Sabah in the open questioning of the past history of the Borneo hinderland comprisi…
[4:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: one sheep bah the rest all bah no need to think
[4:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: EM not fast enough!
[4:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian and Spanish are official language at UN. UN promote multilingual ish, it enables communication between the UN's linguistically and culturally diverse Member States within the meeting rooms and halls of the UN
[4:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and here we have majority in society asking for english test ?
[4:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hahahahah
[4:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so much for a multi race society hor ... might as well ask them to tear down the 3 places of worshipped in chinatown hahahaha
[4:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: https://tnp.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/commuters-pay-no-mind-russian-man-2-kids-stroller-boarding-mrt-lift
[4:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: maybe the guy no speaking english
[4:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thus nobody hiew him ?
[4:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Hock Lee Bus Riots Round Two!?
[4:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: will not lah
[4:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cos now the reason no speak english is the reason hahahaha
[4:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: ๐คท♂️
[4:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: stupid majority ....
[4:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that's why other countries got issue cannot embrace differences / cultures and practices ....
[4:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thus this street in this little island is very special to me and is in fact a bigger attraction than orchard road
[4:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: it have great significant
[4:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Thankfully not us!
[4:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes
[4:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Great
[4:38 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that's why to me i say we should not follow what is happening outside of us always use our brains to think what is best for us here
[4:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[4:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: others can talk till the heaven falls cos they dun live here but those born, breed, here better use our bloody brains ... not just see fb / ig/ main stream media and take those info as real, learnt to weigh the pros and cons
[4:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: 1 tooth pick break easily but try a box of tooth pick it can even blind someone ...dun say breaking them
[4:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Totally agree!
[4:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sometimes is good to be different -> like that street i mentioned
[4:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yeah
[4:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if anyone forget about social peace and harmony please take a walk down that street and ask yourself how can this stay that way for more than 50 years
[4:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Cannot speak English?
Perhaps or maybe not?
[4:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: how; why and who .....
[4:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or maybe that guy where i am russian u know russian is not gloablly favoured now hahahaha
[4:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: 7 billion vs 6 million
[4:42 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: wear sorry see i no study make mistake
[4:43 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: There will be significant changes regarding financial orders for another 10yrs, I assume. Is the world bank and IMF relevant in regard to development based on the Current trajectory? We will know when the time comes.
[4:44 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Including the Asian development bank.
[4:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: UN have language days:
The purpose of the UN's language days is to celebrate multilingualism and cultural diversity as well as to promote equal use of all six official languages throughout the Organization. Under the initiative, UN duty stations around the world celebrate six separate days, each dedicated to one of the Organization's six official languages. Language Days at the UN aim to entertain as well as inform, with the goal of increasing awareness and respect for the history, culture and achievements of each of the six working languages among the UN community. The days are as follows:
Arabic Language Day (18 December)
Chinese Language Day (20 April)
English Language Day (23 April)
French Language Day (20 March)
Russian Language Day (6 June)
Spanish Language Day (23 April)
[4:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Is language days good initiative for Singapore to promote integration? ๐ค
[4:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Rate of Replacement (RR)
Assuming a country annual birth rate is 30,000 and its death is 40,000.
To cover this population attrition, this country will have to "import more than twice" based on the number of annual deaths over the following 10 years?
Is it a sound analytics and how about the quantum of input?
Thank you.
[4:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Interesting . why Spanish were they a super power?
[4:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Let us study the feasibility
[4:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Ours not possible currently
[4:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: I think cause they use to colonised a lot places this a lot ppl speak spainese .
[4:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: ABD, the future is not foreseeable. I have no detail on its outlook.
[4:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, SL.
[4:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly I think the RR was a miscalculation decade ago . In fact the further import may really displacecall local soon
[4:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Cos if u calculated carefully there a hidden issue soon
[4:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[4:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: The more we import the more issue
[4:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Corrections?
[4:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Spanish is well speaking in South America, French use as foreign language in Africa continent
[4:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: The more you don't import, doesn't mean problem will go away?
So how?
[4:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly the issue should have highlighted in 2014 by ppl to higher up not sure only now got highlighted
[4:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: So a lot of ppl never do the job
[4:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: We have no choice!
[4:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: The Philippines was colonised by the Spanish for 333 years, how about Formosa?
[4:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Thank you, Andrew!
[4:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Formosa 16 yrs (1626 to 1642)
[4:54 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Andrew, Ah Heng, Thomas, SL, RH...pls read this long essay and all your valuable critics, please.
Thank you.
[4:54 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 16 March, 2023
Baby Baby Baby - Birth or Burst?
"When you intentionally plan for child birth, you are looking at the timeline, you needs time and you may ends with more unintended consequences...?"
- - anonymity
Nature?
Women are the driver of baby birth rate? Why so, the willingness to carry a pregnancy for 9 months over and over again is a big decision for all women! What are the benefits for women to bear a child or children when they are on the escalator of their career? How to compensate in order to motivate more women to give birth to two or more baby? Let's start from the mindsets of women in an urban society. Women are more educated compared to women of the last half century. Women are able workers at all stations of the workplace compared to…
[4:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Let's start thinking deeper, these TFR interrelated issues that will collapse any nation demography for decades in if the TFR is 0.5. For sure, it will be a longer struggle to reach the ideal TFR 2.0!
[4:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly by right gdp need to go to ppl than to country . But a lot of stuff if country wanted a shares causing a lot of problem .
[4:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: If the motivation is to ensure a common language for communication, the suggestion is understandable. However, the English language should NOT be a necessary criteria. If it becomes a necessary criteria, this becomes discriminatory. Singapore risks favouring new citizens from countries with English emphasis. The English test ignores cultural, values in life and philosophical fit with today Singapore. It also risks limiting Singapore’s ordinary citizens perspectives if everyone would only read and discuss English articles and not those of other languages. It depends on the new citizen’s roles too - please remember we still have a generation of elders who can’t effectively communicate in English. There are already challenges in hospital wards between care givers and patients. Finally, we should also ask, is there sufficient emphasis in Singapore, and our education, in our mother tongues in Mandarin, Malay, and Tamil to ensure we don’t lose our roots even as we pursue a common working language.
[4:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Regardless need to strive a balance if not result still the same
[4:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: mai read liao cos this one chiken and egg thing
[4:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: the chiken dun wan to give birth also useless if the rooster wan it hahahaha
[4:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: then sometimes is rooster no like chiken but like rooster
[5:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but majority is chiken and rooster see other fowls got no small chicklets can fly here and there very happy so these fowls also follow
[5:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly from the whole argument seem like there no cure liao .
[5:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Boon, valid points.
Service like hospital cares need good language skills. In our health care system, our medical staff are multi racial. If one could not speak in English, the other nurse can converse in Mandarin or Malay or Tamil.
Thank you.
[5:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to them is so what i dun have chicklets .. other will do mah
[5:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: talk till dinosaur come back also no ending one
[5:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun wan to brunt my brain cells
[5:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Don't laugh...wait no more chicks! Then susah !
[5:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Different paradigm.
[5:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and raising a kid is not easy remember it take a village to raise a chicklet....
[5:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and not many are willing to take up the responsibility -> which to me i think is socially responsible
[5:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Freedom...don't hope!
When ageing time, ownself care ownself!
[5:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cos dun have the guts and time and responsibility dun do it and let other clean up the mess
[5:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly when I was young so many ppl fight for job no money leh who want me .
[5:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: more importantly dun drag the kid into the mess KID are innocent
[5:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Finding many short cuts in life...later on kena cut deeper!
[5:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: True TRUE!
[5:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: then the rooster and ckien will die lonely lor but no worries they end up in kfc or McDonalds, too late by then
[5:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: That's why it is important to RR!
[5:03 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: u see sending old aged people to homes is liek sending them to kfc and mdc slaughter house hehehehe
[5:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: RR? relax and reproduce?
[5:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: When you are short of nurses ..then how?
Worse than all
[5:04 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Rate of Replacement....
[5:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: worry what .. import lor (but must speak english wan hahahaha)
[5:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i find it impt too why -> to expereinced what is parent hood (if you have the means) is another stage of human growth
[5:05 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: This brings up a topic that I am still investigating the phenomena.
I discover I have been leading to a box thinking of an issue when I read reputable Western media. The news write up is contradict by other media (those from India, Hong Kong, Singapore, UAE etc); it confused me.
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: the joy is not something your lv, bmw or even eu holiday trip can give
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: it makes one a better or worst a person
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: perception in life changes with a kid
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Simply, many nations are rushing to bring in manpower to cope with their demographics whether it is due to ageing or for economic growth or for other reasons!
" Every decision there is reason(s)"
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that's where family bond become closer
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: where one eye open to another dimension
[5:06 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not fairy tale but those who are parents will know
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: As per my humble opinion I think want to use English to unified the country u read history book year BC 259
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like tan ah tec will say long time ago .....
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Excellent...the chicks learned from their chicken and Rooster!
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Important too!
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Agree
[5:07 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and when your bonds are close and strong (positive) it tends to spread onto the society
[5:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Is TFR impotant in Industry revolution 5 and 6? Space industry, AI/big data processing (eg chatgpt5 etc)…๐ค
[5:14 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: So is impt couple dating think Abt RR to me it must be educated to them
[5:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Yes
[5:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Is not all about dollars and fun and enjoyment as a couple but he next stage of enlightenment brought about by a kid
[5:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi SL...
"In some extraordinary situation, if you are unable to reason or find an answer. Perhaps the beneficiary is the person who planned it."
- - anonymity
Thank you.
[5:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: A household electric/ washing appliance/door and security can be assisted and managed by the current remote control / AI. AI dogs as pets.
[5:15 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: A saying an elder once told me a married couple is not a family of there is no KID in the family
[5:16 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: So again is back to basic of life which our foreparents learnt and pass on
[5:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "Till that day arrives,... crafted robots are able to smile or cry indifferently and perfectly like humans laughing or crying, that's the day, true and perpetual Intelligence!'
- - anonymity
[5:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: As the old saying goes, "Everything new is well forgotten old."
[5:17 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: That why our RR so low , cos EM1 female or male can’t accept EM2 or EM3 ,
EM 2 can’t accept EM3 . EM2 and EM3 makes find forginer bride. female all left over for EM1 and EM2 . Of course if ur family got money different case lol .
[5:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Some are not fortunate for some reasons
[5:19 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: The scenario I wrote happened in real life. There are products available in market. AI dogs, just 2 grand USD.
[5:19 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Socioeconomic status
[5:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Work stress, cost of uploading too play a part
[5:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, is real
[5:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: That what I observed and when foreigner white collar enter from Malaysia it seal the fates of local
[5:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Well said in layman is call STOP BEING OLD FASHION hahahaha
[5:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: I mean cheap white collars
[5:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Subsidies will not help
[5:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: "The meanings of life have shortened post Covid. Work to live, to pay bills, to avoid financial embarrassments, to take care of family and to stay healthy, so many things to consider,...to remain single is perhaps an easier way out for a young person's lifetime?"
- - anonymity
[5:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Agree. I hope to have an AI assistant soon too.
[5:21 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Yeah this understand and is not cheap for ivf despite govt help and ivf is not 100% will have egg
[5:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Long time ago Sony came out aibo go check it out
[5:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 25% or less hit rate.
[5:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, the Japanese robot and now the Chinese does it even better
[5:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Espically with living conditions now, women age,rooster sperm quality affected by environment and food intake etc
[5:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: I think your openness to read different media is really important for balanced views. Thanks for sharing!
[5:23 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Yeah even their sex robot is better den the west hahahah
[5:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Darn this is another dent to the RR plan
[5:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: Great points too!
[5:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Hahaha u got sex robots better and prettier den real human
[5:24 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Aibo is an obsolete invention. The current pet dog is like Boston dynamic’s dog.
[5:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Boon, what are you investigating, can you share your thoughts?
Thank you
[5:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: That is use mainly for corporate or military currently and is darn ugly....cannot replace real dogs yet
[5:25 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Aibo frankly it can replace dogs cos is cute
[5:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: But expensive during that era
[5:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Pets is to relieve ur stress and share ur love
[5:26 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: That Boston thing is like sharing ur live with a tv or fridge will anyone?
[5:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Imagine u go home and hug or pet ur tv or fridge expecting it to response with love darn is a horror show to me hahaha
[5:28 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Sorry I mean love not live or life
[5:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: The future!
[5:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: If really like that I hug toilet bowl better hahaha
[5:30 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: AI hologram with emotion? The current virtual assistant only got sound.
[5:31 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Cos is the I only things that take my waste with love and not complain
[5:32 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Yeah but there is no feel, the physical sensation is not there. Like that happy guy who married that HOLogram green hair big eye happy character
[5:33 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: He have to still have stuff toys of her around his place ....else is can see but cannot touch like go geylang see fish tank
[5:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Mr Akihiko's marriage became news last year. I don't know how they are leaving now.
[5:35 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: I think still together
[5:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: The one that broke up was the lady frm some English speaking country that married herself to a toy 747 plane
[5:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: And the lady who married to herself and file for divorce something like 24hrs later hehehehe
[5:36 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: That how RR is affected
[5:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Even a toy plane can be married to duh
[5:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Next u hear marry to a molecule
[5:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Please be reminded to keep to the topic that is being discussed. We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Thank you.
Megan
[5:44 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Rich foreigners spurn New Zealand after visa rule changes.
The ultra-wealthy appear to be losing interest in New Zealand.
A new investor visa, aimed at luring high-net-worth individuals who can pour millions of dollars into the nation’s companies, has attracted just 14 applications since it was launched about six months ago.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/rich-foreigners-spurn-new-zealand-after-visa-rule-changes
[5:46 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So don't suka suka add additional hurdles to wealthy investors or talents.
They are short in supply and highly sought after.
Singapore attraction is not "bao jia" .
We try to act tough - people will look elsewhere.
[5:47 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Frankly how many ultra wealthy u looking at ? Compare to 30,000 new citizen ?
[5:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Are u saying the 30,000 new citizen a year are all ultra wealthy ? Hope they never do the 99-1 tax evasion that harm local
[5:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: If u live in landed and enjoy the high property price I don’t think is nice to say about ultra rich as 60 % local love in hdb yea
[5:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: $1m HDB sold they don’t instead to buy EC or condominium
[5:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, there are plenty of choices!
Thanks, Danny!
[5:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Different folks, different strokes.
[5:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: Rich enjoy property tax lower than EC
[5:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: HDB exceeded income $15k allow them buy.
[5:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Wealth tax very hard to implement!
[5:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: To add a point on religious harmony. A question to answer is also whether would today’s Singapore religion balance risks becoming imbalanced if English is a necessary test for new citizens (how many new citizens are we discussing?)
[5:57 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why harping on making English test a compulsory for citizenship is too narrow focus.
There are many more important criteria that we should look at.
[5:58 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Boon, an exceptional point!
Race and or Religion will be an important consideration in shaping our intent(s), to balance our existing demographics and introduce new people into SG.
Thank you.
[5:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: SG welcome all able people, the talented and the wealthy!
(ไธๆไฝ ๆฅ, ๅฐฑๆไฝ ไธๆฅ!)
Correct or wrong?
Thank you.
[6:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew, there are ways for indirect tax and luxury tax too.
" You see, this tax thing is about creation..."
That's another big topic!
Thank you.
[6:01 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: This was mentioned by our PM some time ago so still under discussion for the time being.
[6:02 pm, 05/04/2023] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
According to a survey commissioned by Channel News Asia, it was noted that a large majority of Singapore-born citizens believe that an English test should be part of the country’s citizenship application process. 80 per cent of 500 Singapore-born citizens polled were in favour of an English test being part of the country’s citizenship application process.
๐ฌ What are your views on the suggestion that an English test should be part of Singapore’s citizenship application process? How can we ensure that new citizens are able to integrate into our society?
On Feb 27 during the Committee of Supply debates, Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh said that he would advocate for an English test when assessing a person’s application for citizenship or …
[6:11 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I have ex China national colleagues, Indian national colleagues, Indonesian colleagues who speak English but their spouses speak their native languages.
They are talented in their respective fields.
They got their PRs but applying for citizenship.
If English test are impose on them, their spouses may not passed - and chances they will leave Singapore.
And will lose all these talents.
[6:12 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Dammed if you do and Dammed if you don't!?
[6:17 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why I say:-
1. Conversation English for them (not the test type).
2. Spouse optional.
3. Their children will be conversant in both English and 2nd language.
We won't lose alot of integration because they also join RC activities as volunteers.
They can integrate very well.
[6:18 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Can't agree but must fine a way to strike reasonable balance somehow
[6:19 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Sorry can I ask what is RC activies ? How it link up with intergtion ?
[6:19 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 April, 2023
"Language abilities is one complex cognitive skills to attain, it can also be an early indicator of a person's level of literacy and socioeconomic status in one's country,...who you are and about you...?"
- - anonymity
The final answer (in English):
To test all incoming people or categorize them according to function/vocation) profession?
Is it necessary to test all or to test selected candidates with salary of $10,000 and below?
What criteria to load these tests?
How about the candidate country of original birth and the main language?
How many other languages his/her is able to speak and or write?
There are many choices to make in life and this case is about a country's identity (unity), it's existence (more than survival) and most importantly, the economics (even more than jobs and prosperity)!
[6:20 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The projects they handle are national, international and global.
The Chinese national translate my project proposal into mandarin - for a China eco-city projects.
Without him, China could have rejected our project proposal.
So don't jump the gun too fast.
Pritam Singh don't have a 360 degree views of what is going on in the world.
[6:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Engagement with the neighbours in the constituency helps.
[6:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: Intention is real or just for show lol
[6:20 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Show!
[6:22 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Residential community services in the cc.
[6:22 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If they want to be citizens, they need to participate.
[6:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +KL: See lah got agenda
[6:22 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Fake participation!
[6:26 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And these new citizens contribution truely make Singapore a global city by plugging into the world.
Eg. Indonesian know their Kendall industrial park well (JV with Singapore).
India national know the India industrial park well.
So is Chinese national who know Suzhou, Tianjin, Nanjing, Chongqing industrial park.
Think which Singapore with good English can pull such feat?
[6:27 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: I think it depends on the sample size and sample bias - where and how did the sampling took place? In Raffles / Tanjong Pajar or Serangoon or AMK; or random? 500 is not a large sample considering our population of about 5 mil.
[6:29 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: Maybe another (and other) sampling can occur thru REACH groups?
[6:34 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Sample size, age group and location of surveys.
Thanks, Boon!
[6:37 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So whether Singapore need the world more?
Or the world need Singapore more?
Without these 30,000 new citizens from all over the world - Singapore will be very much poorer.
English wor...
[6:37 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Both
[6:38 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: "China's Xi says ties with Singapore set benchmark for region"
Xi willing to work with Singapore on land, sea channel.
https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-xi-ties-singapore-set-134343748.html#:~:text=China%27s%20Xi%20says%20ties%20with%20Singapore%20set%20benchmark%20for%20region
[6:39 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: More than 30,000!
Well Said!
Thanks, Danny
[6:39 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Chongqing connectivity will connect the land and sea route from west China to all of South east Asia to Singapore port.
[6:40 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Plus east Asia eg. Japan, Korea.
[6:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: We're providing security clearance for all exports to USA
[6:40 pm, 05/04/2023] +Boon: Thank you Smiling Icon ๐
[6:41 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And all the way to India, Europe, US and middle East and Central America.
[6:41 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: You are most welcome!
Thanks, Boon!
[6:45 pm, 05/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
[6:46 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: I got a colleague from India, the English are not the first language or second language of their family members. this will not attract them to stay if without exemption.
[6:48 pm, 05/04/2023] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes.
That's why a basket of criteria is important - and not just harp on English.
Because other factors could be more important.
[6:48 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: 30k is the past records, what is the current data and which category?
[6:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: I got a very honorable intelligent Indian national boss. he don't want to be in Singapore because he says he don't want to be like us, dependent on the government. He wants to be independent and take care of himself and his family and not be dependent on government
[6:49 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Agree. Their 2nd language is French.
[6:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: The new order of things....
" Finding the fittings and not the fittest, to strive and thrive!"
[6:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Rama: Fair enough
[6:50 pm, 05/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: He is from the priestly class
[6:51 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Contributing factors are equally important when selecting candidates.
[6:52 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: The order continues evolving.
we need something suitable in Singapore to bridge all without affecting core interests.
[6:53 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: As long as the two big ones are Fighting!
[6:54 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Usually people surrounding them will speak the language, that this class commonly use.
[6:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: That will not end soon, I guess.
[6:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes!
[6:55 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: But that's fine too, opportunities!
[6:56 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Turning challenges and chaos into advantages!
That's competitive!
[6:57 pm, 05/04/2023] +SL: Agree; the opportunity is everywhere. Risk can become an opportunity.
[6:59 pm, 05/04/2023] +Smiley face: Taking calculated risks and taking risks, two different fear factors.
Thank you.
[7:00 pm, 05/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
=====
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