REACH 450 -  What are your views on the increase in ABSD and other measures to promote a sustainable property market and pre-emptively dampening demand by investors, both local and foreign, for residential property?

(SK)

 27 Apr 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[1:18 pm, 27/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

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[1:31 pm, 27/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

The Government has announced increases in the Additional Buyer’s Stamp Duty (ABSD) rates to promote a sustainable property market. The revised rates will apply to all residential properties acquired on or after 27 April 2023. 

National Development Minister Desmond Lee said the increases in the ABSD are a “pre-emptive measure” to dampen local and foreign investment demand amid renewed interest in residential properties. “We have made these measures for those two reasons – prioritise Singaporeans who are buying for owner occupation, but also pre-emptively dampening demand by investors, both local and foreign, for residential property,” he said.

💬 What are your views on the increase in ABSD and other measures to promote a sustainable property market and pre-emptively dampening demand by investors, both local and foreign, for residential property?

📌 Increase in ABSD rates

In a joint statement, the Ministry of Finance, National Development Ministry and Monetary Authority of Singapore announced the following changes:

1️⃣ For Singapore citizens buying their second residential property, the rate will be raised from 17% to 20%. For third and subsequent property, the rate will increase from 25% to 30%.

2️⃣ For Singapore permanent residents (PRs) buying their second residential property, ABSD rate will increase from 25% to 30%. PRs purchasing their third and subsequent properties will face an increase from 30% to 35%. 

3️⃣ For foreigners buying any residential property, ABSD rate will increase from 30% to 60%.

Based on 2022 data, the ABSD rate hikes will affect about 10 per cent of all private residential property transactions - involving foreign investors as well as those buying their second and subsequent property.

The ABSD rates for Singapore citizens and permanent residents purchasing their first residential property - which constitutes about 90 per cent of residential property transactions based on 2022 data - will remain at 0 per cent and 5 per cent respectively.

📌 Increases in Housing Supply

The revisions to the ABSD rates to help moderate investment demand will complement the government's efforts to ramp up supply in order to alleviate the tight housing market for both owner-occupation and rental. The supply of private housing under the Government Land Sales programme has increased from 3,500 units on the Confirmed List in the second half of 2022 to 4,100 units in the first half of 2023. On the public housing front, HDB will launch up to 23,000 flats in 2023, and up to 100,000 new flats between 2021 and 2025.

In addition, the authorities said there will be significant housing supply coming onstream over the next few years, with close to 100,000 public and private residential units expected to be completed from 2023 to 2025.

📌 Third round of cooling measures since Dec 2021

This is the third round of cooling measures in the past 16 months. The Government said that while the earlier two rounds of measures in December 2021 and September 2022 have had a moderating effect on the market, property prices showed “renewed signs of acceleration amid resilient demand” in the first quarter of 2023.

👉 https://www.mnd.gov.sg/newsroom/press-releases/view/measures-for-a-sustainable-property-market

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/govt-to-further-raise-absd-rates-s-pore-citizens-buying-2nd-home-to-pay-20-up-from-17

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/business/absd-raised-to-preemptively-dampen-property-investment-demand-desmond-lee

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/new-property-cooling-measures-absd-pre-emptive-dampen-investment-demand-homes-desmond-lee-3447796

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[1:34 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: Why is there a different tier for PRs and Foreigners? Shouldn't they be the same? I mean PRs ARE foreigners,

[1:34 pm, 27/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: And gov asks why is rent going up so much?????

[1:37 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Minimum in line with inflation and price increases 🤣

[1:38 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Taxi can also take grab jobs but yes grab earns quite a big piece

[1:38 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: The GCB doesn't come cheap hor

[1:39 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Foreigners in this case refer to this with PR. Mainly targeting those who buy property here for investment or park wealth but don't stay here. PRs stay here

[1:39 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: I think gahmen is trying to get more ultra rich to convert PR or citizen

[1:41 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Errr they are our future… unless we don’t want them to stay to contribute to Singapore

[1:41 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Singaporean giving birth so little eventually we run out of singaporean

[1:44 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Singaporean only 17% stay in condo… so you know where extra money comes from?

[1:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Thanks for sharing

[1:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: if not i don't even know about the huge income gaop

[1:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: Stay here doesnt mean they are Singaporeans no?

They are still Foreigners. Why are they not taxed like foreigners?

[1:46 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: I agree also :)

[1:46 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Cause them being PR means they contribute enough or they are the ones Singapore wants to keep as part of our future hoping they convert after seeing all the good we has to offer

[1:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Frankly what to say?

It's like getting headache but got medicine for stomach ache LOL

[1:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: If they convert. Sure. Why do they get benefits without getting converted?

[1:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: My view

They mentioned only 10% of Transactions will be afftected by this. So all this time the 10% are the reason for Sky rocketing prices.

🙄

And HDB resale prices gone too high, much higher than 2013 peak, For that no action has been taken.

I guess As long as HDB resale prices not controlled majority will not be happy.

Seems These measures aimed at  Getting more income to Govt than providing affordable housing to poor and middle income.

So the less one can discuss about this the better.

[1:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: it unfair for local as for past 18 years , it cause more single and less birth

[1:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: They are getting way lesser than they first use to have…

[1:48 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: No they have 2 years head start and in career they can keep jump around

[1:48 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: as their parent can be rear using 200 but we need 4 times

[1:48 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Very lame Measures aimed to collect tax than solving the issue.

I was telling Don't know how many times already

The PROBLEM IS WITH JUST MOP AND ECs HDBs

For this Ridiculous market

[1:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: 😅 you like that might as well say we bring up kids overseas then bring back? 😂

[1:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: got wor

[1:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: i think on face book got such case

[1:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: HDB prices gone super high because of Bubble formed with Newly MOP hdbs

And many rich PRs buying Non mature Estates also with sky rocketed prices

[1:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Also Rich New Citizens

[1:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: one even rush to give birth in Malaysia and ICA help her to get over quickly

[1:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: But they are still getting. should be szero.

[1:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: HDB is really scary 😂 didn’t expect in my lifetime to see 600 to 700k is average for 4 room in mature area

[1:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: cos too many PR getting Falt

[1:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Flats

[1:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: No action has been taken To Control HDB market

Which is actually the main issue,

Also Crazy rentals scaring away foreigners

[1:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Then who come here to work?

[1:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Aiya 

Forget mature area

Now Sengkng punggl also 4rm 600K liao

[1:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: 😂 which country PR policy is to chase them away?

[1:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: once get over board is no longer chase

[1:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: PR is an idiotic policy. It's either Citizens or Foreigners.

[1:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Why HK become like that also due to influx of China ppl

[1:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Huge income gap is also apparent when u see how many % of Singaporeans actually pay income tax

[1:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: The Rich wll become richer poor wll become poorer

Thos middle class who slowly earning to climb up ladder will never able to With the Second house ABSD 

The rich can easily afford 20% tax

What ever yday measures are Deffinatly Pro rich 

And Didn't really address actual problem

[1:53 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: Agree. This ABSD is closing the door on a lot of potential investment opportunities for middle income households.

[1:54 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: No Policy To stop PRs buying HDB, 

Or putting Income ceiling!!!even temporary 

I am definitely shocked. 

Don't know which expert gave these suggestions

That guy didn't even study the market at all

[1:55 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Q1 2023 has more than 21 units of 4 room > $1m.

[1:55 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: only 500k. Can easily replace with non resident.

[1:55 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: They say this is Very less

But how many closer at 800-1mil bracket 

No one cares

[1:57 pm, 27/04/2023] +Joseph Yap: I applaud MND’s bold move on ABSD for foreign buyers. 

This marginal increase in ABSD for local will not be effective to curb the demand, a larger increase should be implemented.

With significant speculation also seen in commercial properties, it is time to assess imposing similar ABSD on commercial properties for both local and foreign buyers.

[1:59 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Frankly foreigners who buy are majority (not all) buying to wash their money

Mere increasing tax will not stop them doing it.

[1:59 pm, 27/04/2023] +Timothy Low: I have friends who are PRs and refused to take up citizenship cause they intend to sell off everything and retire at their birth place. They are taking our benefit with no intention to take their roots here

[2:00 pm, 27/04/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Partially right there are more reasons behind

[2:00 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Cos when in danger they can escape back to their home land

[2:01 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: A lot of ppl ( one SC and another PR ) will wait till the person close to 50 than applied cause they are seeing which side is better off

[2:03 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: What they should have done

Strict standards for Valuation by banks

MSR to be implemented For all not only Condo, to atop over leveraging of banks

Should have started Income ceiling for PRs  buying Hdb or just 5 yr old EC.

Increase overall Condo BSD to 4%

[2:05 pm, 27/04/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: PR have to “contribute” CPF

[2:08 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I think the increase in ABSD for 2nd houses and above is to curb housing speculative activities as well as investment purpose rather than genuine housing needs.

2. I fee this measure come timely for the following reasons:-

a. Economic headwinds are underway that global economic recession is looming as quarterly GDP, manufacturing figures and export figures reflect falling global demand.

b. Contagion in bank run in US eg. SVB, FTX, First Republic, and others plus EU Credit Suisse bank run - indicate flight in cash outflow, default in bond payment - dampening consumption and investment.

c. Distressed property listings gone up and bankruptcy on the rise.

3. All these point to a housing bubble bursting that will have a very adverse impact on our economy - if people can't pay housing loans, banks experience more bad debts, then our nation as a whole will face a very adverse financial crisis.

4. The still very strong housing demands by both local and foreigners - that does not correspond to a buyoant economic backdrop - is a strong indicator of a bubble going to burst - liken the US subprime crisis and the China property bubble.

5. Hence the emergency measures to raise the ABSD to curb speculative and investment on residential houses comes timely.

6. Else we will experience a bad recession trigger by housing loan default, and distressed banks - if the housing bubble burst.

Many businesses will fail and many jobs will be lost.

[2:09 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Distressed property listings in S’pore jump in Q1 as bankruptcies rise.

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/distressed-property-listings-in-s-pore-jump-in-q1-as-bankruptcies-rise

[2:10 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rose M K Ho: Agree.

[2:12 pm, 27/04/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: I have more than 1 Propety.

I am very supportive on this as this specifically target on the very rich whereas the restriction of cancer treatment is a TOTALLY disappointment as it is ONLY helping the insurance company!!!

[2:13 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rose M K Ho: Agree

[2:17 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: To stop this 

MSR is the Solution

Not the ABSD

Also LTV is the Solution alonh with strict rules of Valuation process

Absd is deffinatly not the solution

[2:21 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Anyway as i said Hdb prices are making people Unhappy

No action has been taken

Now i am afraid even Rich PRs/Citiens will scared to buy private, with all these rules, they may feel if Can not make Profit why to invest in Singapore? 

Rather they buy hdb stay there, shift o

Their portfolio to else where (deffinatly there will be certain people who thinks this way.. today one client alrdy mentioned abt this)

So this Upper middle class feel rather buy nice Hdb and pay higher price live happily

And invest in other countries

(This is alternative thought i got after talking to a client)

[2:23 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: Any cooling measure if not addressed all sections of property market, 

The measures won't be effective enough

[2:25 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rose M K Ho: Agree.

ABSD is Not the solution.

Altho it contributes to the gov's coffers, it increases the income gap further.  

Mid-income earners wl now find the goal post has shifted -- yet again -- and bringing up kids without a secure home is not viable. 

This cooling measure therefore also affects other areas ... it wl discourage the next gen fr settling down here & raising families here.  May as well migrate elsewhere, where ther is less pressure ... especially to finance our basic needs ... food, clothing, house, education, transport ... 

Whoever thot of this round of measures does not have his head on the ground.

The HDB pricing issue has still Not bn resolved yet.

Focus shd be on making pricing more affordable for next gen on Resale flats and/or new flats.  Not on the private sector.

U shd hv let sleeping dogs lie and fix the elephant in the room instead !! [2:25 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: And Not addressed anything about sky high rentals.. scares away foreigners. If this is what Govt wants

I am happy, but i dont think thats their intention

[2:30 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rose M K Ho: As pte properties become more expensive, this wl drive ppl to the HDB resale market. 

Thereby increasing the already over demand for more of such flats and increasing prices ... all over again!

The timing of these measures are ... UN-timely and shd hv bn held bk till the overall housing sitn (on HDB) has stabilised!

[2:31 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I feel that keeping 0% for citizens, and 5% for PRs for our 1st house is appropriate - as it encourage house ownership and an attempt to keep the house price down.

2. Raising ABSD on 2nd house for both citizens and PRs is appropriate - to curb speculative and excess investment not for housing needs.

3. By doubling ABSD to 60% for foreigners regardless of 1st or subsequent houses - will discourage foreigners buying up properties and chasing up housing prices - so that citizens and PRs who have a direct stake in our economy - by setting up business, jobs, serve NS etc - will be given a good chance to own our houses and contribute to our economy.

4. Singapore citizens comprise 3.5 million, PRs   490,000 (with a good chance to be new citizens - to replace aged citizens or supplement our low birth rate) - is a reasonable replacement plan. 

5. Foreigners who are non-PRs form 1.47 million people - hence if they buy houses - will beef up our government coffers by paying 60% ABSD - a good sum of money to benefit our fiscal budget.

[2:35 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. The supply of BTO flats are going up - as well as condo and private houses - as construction activities ramp up after post pandemic.

2. As long as supply exceed demand - housing price will come down.

3. Now it is to curb speculative and investment activities such as buying more than 1 house - to buy and sell for quick gain as well as to curb hot foreign money coming into Singapore to buy up houses for investment.

[2:36 pm, 27/04/2023] +~L: Not exactly.... they are also PRs' on the road to becoming Citizens. Perhaps there could be an additional tax when they sell if they didn't become citizens, or if they move overseas. Otherwise, let's not put another obstacle to people who want to settle here.

[2:37 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Agree with you.

[2:38 pm, 27/04/2023] +Suma pamu: If one Can wait for BTO they don't complain about resale

We are talking about resale prices. Those who need immediate housing, especially in thia kind of rental market wants to buy House ASAP, so this issue must be addressed.

[2:41 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Anyway throughout my studies and careers - I have benefitted from PRs around me whether as student or colleagues.

We learn and grow with one another - and have benefitted directly or indirectly in studies, work, or business.

Without the PRs I will have been poorer in terms of knowledge, skills or wealth.

We mutually benefitted.

I will also like to emphasize - foreigners play a part as well.

[2:41 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Is this real data ?

[2:41 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I Google.

Unless Google provide wrong or outdated data.

[2:41 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Sorry to ask why 2021 got 2.99 M? but there only 2,651,435 registered electors in 2020 ?

[2:42 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: so in one year our population increase by 10% ?

[2:42 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Can children vote?

[2:42 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Thanks for the information , Understand

[2:43 pm, 27/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Property in Singapore is one of the few investment that is fairly safe and tracks inflation. It beats CPF hands down.  Gov just made it more difficult for retirement planning for citizens.

[2:44 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Errr so easy to say then done.. 500k where to find?

[2:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Most Singapore don’t pay income tax if you earn below 40 to 50k annual. With NS, kids and parents for exemption.

[2:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +Sh Koh: When private price come dn.. so will the HDB issit it ? As valuation of land price and the rest will come dn.

[2:47 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Many companies having issue in filling up positions…

[2:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: willing to pay anot, is it one position cover everything role

[2:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: else the usual feedback ooo singapore dun have the talent i need

[2:49 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Need to earn enough to pay lor… not all company earn a lot 😂

[2:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Then end up those who still in company pay the same double role till find replment

[2:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Replacement

[2:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: then is mgt issue ... not no one to fill the role ..

[2:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: market is smart now too low ball pay who wants

[2:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Frankly a lot of bank hire foreigner or PR  . Ji ko ji  yi xia, :))

[2:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: even if you get a headcount dun bet on it will stay log

[2:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: else company can ask for temp staff

[2:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Tiagong one firm in Newtown a lot of wor

[2:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: think this will be more fair and might have more resources

[2:51 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no need tia gong u go dbs see can liao

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: go changi business park see can liao

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: go cdb see can liao (note we not talking about blue collar here ahh) is those shiok shiok office job roles ahhh

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: IT also ft

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sales also ft

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: HR also ft

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Newton, it a local firm somemore quite big one

[2:52 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: HR agency also ft

[2:53 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Fund accountant ( OPS ) also

[2:53 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: local happy mah

[2:53 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cos grab and food delivery also can earn 8k

[2:54 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: own boss

[2:54 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but slog for more than 8 hours under the sun and rain

[3:07 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Recent BTO flats launch - the price of the flats quite reasonable.

So take the 5 room flats at $452,000 non-mature estate.

Young graduates couple only need to pay $1,977 monthly instalments including interest for 20 years housing loan with CPF.

I think a reasonable sum.

Kudos to our MND Minister and MOS for solving our BTO flats pricing problems for our younger generations.

[3:09 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Young graduates CPF can pay monthly housing loans without the need to fork out cash - as long as both young graduates are working.

[3:09 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not a big financial burden.

[3:09 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: THen how about ITE ppl ?

[3:10 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Got to pwm.

Government got to work on it.

[3:10 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Sorry what is PWM ?

[3:10 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Progressive wage model.

[3:11 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: How long ?

[3:11 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

🤷

[3:12 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

"MAS launches $8m grant scheme for polytechnic graduates, students to boost finance talent pool"

 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/mas-launches-8m-grant-scheme-for-polytechnic-students-graduates-to-boost-finance-talent-pool#:~:text=MAS%20launches%20%248m%20grant%20scheme%20for%20polytechnic%20graduates%2C%20students%20to%20boost%20finance%20talent%20pool

[3:12 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun forget cpf does not mean u can use everything hor there is a limit

[3:13 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ah Heng: despite you take full hdb loan once cross certain years get ready to pay in cash

[3:14 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Polytechnic students are giving opportunities to work with foreign banks that normally hire uni graduates.

Hence job by skills instead of job by qualifications - are being implemented on the ground.

[3:17 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

2 university graduates assume $5,000 each will have at least $2,000 in CPF ordinary account.

So no cash payout.

As for my case, 20 years housing loan from CPF - I can pay out in full - without paying a single cent in cash.

So doable.

[3:27 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Actually quite a lot is only one side convert while the other side keep PR

[3:27 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: So they enjoy benefits of both sides

[3:31 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: That's why this PR thing needs to stop. You're either a citizen or a foreigner

[3:36 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: So easy.. everyone do Liao 😅

[3:37 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: As you work your pay increase extra can use for investment

[3:39 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes.

Can even pay back all the housing loan to CPF plus interest - then earn interest income from CPF.

[3:41 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Thought no one can become new citizens unless one becomes PR for a certain number of years, verified his/her suitability before converting to become new citizens?

Thought all countries do this.

[3:43 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

US also have permanent resident scheme call green card if I am not wrong.

If Singapore go against world convention - then our population demographics must be very mess up.

[3:44 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Can but really is morning to night with heavy toll on your body and mind

[3:44 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: New class of coolie

[3:44 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: 😅 still honest work

[3:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Don’t like that say leh..

[3:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: With the trend of price increases and inflation, the available extra is shrinking

[3:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Coolie is honest work also but just saying it as it si

[3:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Is

[3:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Sorry ah, I not good at sugar coating one 🤣

[3:45 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Japan permanent resident requirements- foreigners need to stay and work in Japan for a minimum 10 years.

So if Singapore has no concept of permanent resident - then Singapore will be a very alien country compared to the rest of the world.

We will be a xenophobic country.

[3:53 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And I realised something:-

If our mind is big, our heart is big, to be able to accommodate people - we will do well in our study, our careers, our families, our relationship with people.

[3:53 pm, 27/04/2023] +~L: Exactly - many countries have a successful PR model, to help people transition to full citizenship, or to make temporarily settlement a realistic option. We could look at financial penalties for moving money out of Singapore if that money was earned through real estate profits.

[3:56 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Don't persuade others to be kind without knowing other suffering. If you suffer same as me, you may not be as good as me

[3:57 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh I give up my last job to a Malaysian PR who needs the job more than I do.

[3:58 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: i can only say your situation is not as bad lor

[3:59 pm, 27/04/2023] +TD: You call it Xenophobia.

I call it looking after Singaporeans.

[4:01 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh it's a $8,000 job a month.

[4:02 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: are u sole bread winner ?

[4:03 pm, 27/04/2023] +Frankie Wee: Singaporean breadwinner can’t make rich

[4:07 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes I am.

[4:11 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: frankly i cant comment as i do not know the full situation thou :)

[4:12 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: Plus era may different so i also cant comment .

[4:40 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But being resourceful, I now make more than this.

[4:40 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Just need to have a big mind and a big heart.

[4:42 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Need not be resentful or willfully spiteful or negative.

Good thing will come naturally.

[4:47 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And being xenophobic, we hurt Singaporeans more than we help Singaporeans.

Because Singapore need to be an open city to welcome the rest of the world - so that we can benefit in talents, investment, capital and business.

Hence we need to have an open heart and open mind.

Xenophobic help only for a short term - but hurt us long term.

[4:57 pm, 27/04/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: So sorry to hear, hope it’s all past otherwise please share and all people here whom are resourceful can offer some suggestions on where can get help.🙏

It reminds me of my past, please feel

Free to PM if you’re not comfortable to share openly.

[4:59 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: it just a idiom . I don't persuad ppl to be kind cos i never go thorugh other ppl suffering , so i cant bring myself so easy be big heart. it a little not right.

[5:00 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: i saw a lot of unjust but it out of my power nor ability to help them.

[5:01 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: It will drop to a level where children of pr will double our best efforts to repopulate the local population

[5:03 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Would reintroduced evaluation report help to control!? No selling above valuation price!?

[5:03 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Yeah

[5:03 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Economic issues holding back!?

[5:04 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Possible hdb issue last to be dealt with!?

[5:10 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Fast track for certain categories of the super rich to entice them to pack their funds here for x number of years with incentives!?

[5:27 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I don't think so.

Family offices requirements very stringent.

[5:40 pm, 27/04/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Just sharing that there is this super kind group name “Mummy Yummy” I was a junior volunteer.  They managed w/o govt assistance and to the extend to sell the HDB to provide food etc for the poverty.  Recently they just gotten help/assistance from MSF.

They help w/o question ask 👍🥰

Another group is Tzu Chi (Buddhism) am also a junior volunteer and we had Muslim friend who got help/assistance too 🥰

[5:42 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/new-criteria-for-family-offices-in-singapore-to-receive-tax-incentives/ 

New criteria for family offices in Singapore.

[5:45 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The 2,300 high net worth if $8 million investment -cannot even qualified under this requirement.

This new requirements need to be verified over time to ensure the required Capital are sunk in, new jobs are created for Singaporeans and philanthropy funds are disbursed.

Hence the family offices scheme so benefits Singaporeans immensely.

[5:46 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Wonderful

[5:46 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore dismisses 'highly misleading' prediction of 3,500 high-net-worth foreigners becoming citizens.                                                                                                            https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/highly-misleading-prediction-mha-singapore-citizenship-high-net-worth-individuals-3442176

[5:47 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oops my mistake not 2,300 - it is 3,500 - they don't qualify as family offices.

[5:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Super sensitive lol… if true china will knock on our door

[5:50 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: 😂

[5:53 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes.

This innocent information normally cannot release.

It put our diplomats in a very uncomfortable position.

[5:54 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: 😂 why our news cover in the first place 🤷🏻‍♂️

[5:55 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Editor never do their job lol

[5:55 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Foreign news anyhow announced without checking the facts.

[5:56 pm, 27/04/2023] +Ken: Can poke the other side… in point to make us stand the right side

[5:56 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

China very sensitive to capital outflows.

That's why they have capital controls on yuan.

[5:59 pm, 27/04/2023] +Rama: Smoke Screen!

[6:11 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: if they buy expensive watch / jewel and bring out :))

[6:12 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This one I don't know.

[6:14 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: By accident i saw the news.

[6:14 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/news-trends/article/3187496/where-are-millionaires-moving-2022-high-net-worth

[6:16 pm, 27/04/2023] +KL: tiagong is 2800 but never say clearly and i don't really that trust SCMP but cos is the free paper :))

[6:21 pm, 27/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If we are xenophobic and treat PRs and foreigners badly - all these HNWI will just bypass us.

They create wealth funds for our banks to manage, create business and jobs.

If we make them unwelcome, they go elsewhere.

Then we become worst off.

If we have big heart and big mind, then we become a magnet to attract the right people, talents, capital, money, business and jobs to our country.

[6:45 pm, 27/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[7:00 pm, 27/04/2023] +Smiley face: April 27, 2023

"Sly Boy 1"

"The legality of the transfer of ownership is the least important...?"

- - anonymous 

First:

What are the motivations for avoidance? (circumvent)

The 5-8% fee is based on the price of the property purchased.

If the fifth year of the property ends, a commission of 5-8% is charged depending on the amount of capital gains.

Assuming the property is financed for 5-8 years.

Are these attractive enough to do it?

"Sly Boy 2"

"What you owe me, I owe you too...!"

- - anonymous 

Part Two:

How to cooperate? (circumstance)

The property can be sold to someone else bypassing the proper transfer of title.

After the sale is completed, 2% goes to the seller.

The seller will then be looking for a new property.

"Sly Boy 3"

"Frien…

[7:00 pm, 27/04/2023] +Smiley face: April 27, 2023

"Sly Boy 6"

"It's all because of greed,... sex, love, money?"

- - unnamed

Part Six:

 The lucky Six! (六六大顺!)

This business is huge and complex and involves many people! (complex)

At both ends, external and operational state. From agents to municipal and government agencies, bankers, immigration, labour, police, trade, legal and foreign affairs staff.

These are the important people who facilitate and check the process and paperwork.

Money flows into a country, money needs to be able to flow freely 24/7 at any time! (infiltration)

"Sly Boy 7"

"Who are these big bosses...?"

- - anonymous 

Part Seven:

Sixty-Six Dashun! (legacy, legitimacy)

Isn't this just what we know in the movies?

In Asia, gangsters have been around for more than two hundred fifty years! Today, you can find these well-organized groups in Japan, Korea, China, Macau, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

As for other countries in Europe, Latin America and the Americas, they have less influence in Southeast Asia. However, they are established and established in our area!

Sly Boy 8"

"There is no Justice Bao (Bao Qingtian), only tomorrow"

- - anonymous 

Part Eight:

Eight steps to the sky! ( The will ) 八步登天!

Just the moment when you catch one, you teach the business a new lesson. Thereafter, new tricks and better ways to avoid past mistakes! (smarter)

In every crime there is a need to understand the entire organization, its functions, its assets and, more importantly, the cash flowing in and being transferred elsewhere!

You need an inside spy to recover and discover these complex interrelated businesses and counterparties that the business has been dealing with for five years or more!

Likewise, the business has spies in every country it operates in!

A spy or spy is just like any normal person! Spy is a job! Only ordinary people are qualified to achieve this goal, and smooth talkers are the least suitable.

Family background and current or past job titles are important considerations in recruiting spies.

This is the cunning world! (that's life)

"Sly Boy 9"

"Back then it was loyalty, now it is livelihood...a human weakness!"

- - anonymous 

Part Nine:

Long Nine! Mighty Nine! (constitute) 长长九九！强大的九!

The number nine has a deeper meaning! (three or six different permutations) is an auspicious symbol of Evergreen, and many Asian triad gangster businesses use this as the pinnacle of rank, documentation, and future succession. In ancient times, the police were also District 9!

The typical image of a big boss is a simple person who can also be famous, but they all respect dignity, are willing to be charitable, and keep a low profile in society. (extraordinary)

One common denominator is that today's businesses value money and prosperity over loyalty. It's a legitimate business! ! Don't be afraid of the sky, don't be afraid of the earth!

For more than 250 years, the power of Asian Chinese, no matter which country in Asia, the root and source, is the starting point of these organized enterprises! (ethnic chinese)

One final word of advice to the curious or greedy, don't join or you won't get out in your life, or you'll be in jail or dead! (no good endings)

"Sly Boy 10"

"The bigger the company, the bigger the network...!"

- - anonymous 

The ten parts:

Top Ten list? (big money)

The current situation is as follows...Taiwan, Macau, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand. These are highly active businesses expanding into Europe, Latin America and the Americas in legitimate business. (Even black/white/African people participate in these activities!)

For security reasons, there are several larger countries that cannot be mentioned.

All these businesses deal with each other, no bickering, just business first! It's not like Shanghai Tang in the movie, no, things have turned into legitimate business.

Ten of these top 10 businesses have been in business for 80 years, while many other pioneers ceased to exist due to lack of succession and territorial issues. Businessmen, Banks, Insiders, Relationships, Connections, Capitalizing on Talent!

On top of that, there are more than 10,000 active businesses employing millions of people, most of which 90% are in Asia. To put it simply, they are all Asian (Chinese) after all!

[7:01 pm, 27/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

====

REACH 449 -  What are your views on the new formula to determine public transport fares? How can the Government balance fare affordability while ensuring the financial sustainability of public transport operators?

(SK)

 26 Apr 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:58 am, 26/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

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Megan 😊

[10:02 am, 26/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

On Tuesday (25 Apr), the Public Transport Council announced that the formula used to determine public transport fares has been adjusted to include two fixed components to reduce swings in fare changes.

💬 What are your views on the new formula to determine public transport fares? How can the Government balance fare affordability while ensuring the financial sustainability of public transport operators?

In August 2022, PTC was tasked with reviewing the fare adjustment formula to account for changes in commuting patterns, and to balance fare affordability and the financial sustainability of the public transport sector. Such reviews typically take place every five years. 

The review was done after engaging with commuters in several focus groups and consulting widely with academics, public transport operators and the National Transport Workers’ Union.

📌 New formula for fares

The new formula for public transport fares is as follows: 

0.5 cCPI (inflation) + 0.4 WI (increase in wages) + 0.1 EI (fuel and electricity prices) – PC (productivity contribution) + C (capacity adjustment factor)

The formula will still take into account the year on year change in inflation, the rate of increase in wages, and fuel and electricity prices. However, the final 2 components were changed from previously variable components to fixed components. The new PC component reduces fare adjustments by 0.1 per cent, and operators are to make up for this reduction by being more efficient. 

On the other hand, the C component is a fixed component set at 1.1 per cent, based on actual and planned capacity improvements from 2020 to 2026. This 1.1 per cent largely reflects the improved connectivity and lower journey times arising from the opening of the Thomson-East Coast Line.

📌 Fare adjustment increases from previous years

PTC also announced that it has retained a mechanism that allows it to defer fare adjustments to subsequent fare reviews, taking into account social and economic conditions.

In the 2022 fare review exercise which excluded the NCF, the maximum fare increase was calculated to be 13.5 per cent but only 2.9 per cent - an increase of four to five cents more for adults who pay for their bus and train rides by card - was granted.

The remaining 10.6 per cent increase was carried over to the 2023 fare review exercise. In response to questions on whether public transport fares will go up this year, PTC Chief Executive Tan Kim Hong said that the formula is used to derive the maximum quantum for any fare hike, but there is a mechanism to moderate this taking into consideration social and economic factors.

However, the PTC emphasized that it remained mindful that deferred fare increases require additional government subsidies to be provided, and that it would exercise fare increases judiciously.

Transport Minister S. Iswaran also said the Government will keep fares affordable for all Singaporeans by funding public transport infrastructure and subsidising part of the operating costs. “We will continue to support vulnerable groups such as senior citizens, lower-wage workers and persons with disabilities with concessionary fares and public transport vouchers,” he added.

Currently, the Government spends over $2 billion in transport subsidies a year. Part of these subsidies are used to fund concessionary fare structures for senior citizens, lower-wage workers and PwDs. 

In particular, the Workfare Transport Concession (WTC) Card enables Workfare Income Supplement recipients below 60 years old to enjoy up to 25% off adult fares.  PWD Concession Card holders can also enjoy up to 55% off adult fares. The Government has also taken steps to make public transport services more wheelchair accessible.

👉🏻 https://str.sg/iowX

👉🏻 https://str.sg/iowh

👉🏻 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/public-transport-council-fare-review-formula-adjusted-inflation-commuters-bus-train-3442296?cid=FBcna

----

[10:10 am, 26/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: The formula has already been decided and would be implemented.

I'm just wondering if there's a need for our feedback?

Perhaps ask us in 4.8yrs later when the formula is going to be tweaked again or maybe 2-3 months before the formula is going to be changed.

[10:10 am, 26/04/2023] +~L: We should look at the revenue from CoE, and how much that subsidises the PT fares. I would like to see a correlation between CoE revenue and PT fare adjustments.

[10:11 am, 26/04/2023] +~L: Also the use of Concession Fares is effective and can be a good lever to use to ensure those who are not working and on lower household incomes can continue to enjoy very low cost PT.

[10:11 am, 26/04/2023] +Caleb: +1

[10:14 am, 26/04/2023] +~L: Is there any guidance for how operators can be more efficient. I'd hope they were constantly looking at that anyway. There is a danger they just reduce wages, and/or personnel, which doesn't benefit anyone. We don't want them to reduce costs and create safety issues, reduce service or make people unemployed. 

How does the Gov expect the 0.1% reduction in costs to impact the service?

[10:14 am, 26/04/2023] +SL: A further suggestion from a 3rd party lense for the benefit of everyone in future since we all are using public transport.

[10:15 am, 26/04/2023] +SL: It is a continuous improvement, I guess.

[10:15 am, 26/04/2023] +~L: I'd be interested to know who in Gov regularly uses and depends on PT, especially the Transport minister.

[10:16 am, 26/04/2023] +~L: It's an excellent service, and deserves subsidies, since it is an essential part of life and good for economic prosperity, social harmony and tourism.

[10:17 am, 26/04/2023] +~L: I think PT deserves our full support and we should be first looking to save costs elsewhere.

[10:26 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: "The Games of Moving People"

"Human movements and migrations are vast and can be in a variety of modes, from solo walking, driving, cruising, flying and to mass commuting,...each mode carries a cost and benefit marker/market and the higher the capacity/frequency of movement will cost more and not necessarily beneficial to some or all...?"

- - anonymity

[10:29 am, 26/04/2023] +TD: Do something about the road hogging Spandex Kamikaze cyclist vermin please.

[10:31 am, 26/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Sometimes I just don't know how LTA is able to justify the building of certain projects but I'm very appreciative that they did. 

There's no way they can justify it based on monetary aspects.  Example is the Jurong circular bridge which probably cost millions to construct that's used by relatively few cyclists.  A cheaper construction would just be steps for pedestrians and force cyclists to carry/push their bikes up.  But LTA built the circular ramp to make it easy for cyclists to be able to cycle all they way up the top.  It's shows forward thinking as it allows for wheelchairs/PMDs to make it across easily and safely.  

So I currently trust our civil service to do the right thing.

[10:42 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Kenneth,

These Public transport systems will always evolve, the efficiency will drive either costs or luckily profits. It can be a losing game!

Today, the formula is only good for the next two years!

One is energy transition costs, newer and proven technologies, and the other is capacity per day and per month and per year.

Therefore, the idea here is to continuously look out for the unknown variables as well as the predictably ones.

For example, an underground road, a road surface or a flyover road; each has the costs, with the underground road being the costliest, from the baseline line of 50%+.

Thank you for bringing it up.

[10:48 am, 26/04/2023] +Rama: None!

[10:48 am, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[10:53 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: When we speak about PT or public transportation...

We are dealing with the longer if not the longest time line of planning, implementation and maintenance!

It is a long term game!

Thank you.

[10:54 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Plus renewal too!

Reimagine and rebuilding!

Remembering that concept of DEMOGRAPHY?

Thank you.

[10:55 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: What are the costs of a lone cyclist ?

What are the costs of a car owner?

What are the costs of a nation's internal transportation?

[11:00 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: What if an increase of say 10 cents,  the public bus fare or the MRT?

Do we assume that the bus and MRT operators will reap a windfall from these multiples of ten cents?

Per person, per trip, per cost, per month and count onto the top of things?

Thank you.

Please do not be mistaken as non sensitive with regards to the cost of livings.

Fact or fake, it doesn't matter! Should a country Public transport falls Short of efficiency and less of expectations, what will be the scenarios?

Let's imagine all of it?

Chaos, road jamming and full of frustrate people from the joggers, commuters to the drivers!

Thank you.

[11:00 am, 26/04/2023] +SL: Is the WI figure covered those self-employed, part timer, and full time NS personnel?

[11:01 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: How about the disabled people in wheelchairs?

Thank you SL for categorizing things!

[11:12 am, 26/04/2023] +SL: 0.1 percent of PC, will it really push for an increase in productivity? 🤔

[11:21 am, 26/04/2023] +SL: Disabled persons, seniors, and students are covered by concession cards. However, it is unclear whether the wi cover the group I mentioned as the economic activity changed in these few years as my understanding of the mean wages Index covered full-time employees only. I might be wrong. looking for advice.

[11:28 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: 26 April, 2023

"The Choo-Choo Trains Story of SG"

Years ago, the MRT was heavily crucified by the public for the lack of maintenance that led to many malfunctions and trains stoppages! There was even criticism of poor succession planning; this case was the retirements of many senior staff that perhaps added to the loss of valuable experience of there senior staffs and the Junior ones were not able to bridge and or to comprehend the extensive and complexity of these multiple parts of the function of electric, electronic and mechanical interface!

Yes, lack of maintenance was/is, no excuse!

Looking back in time and starring it today, our MRT infrastructures have transformed and improved with lesser breakdowns compared to the last five years though it stil…

[11:42 am, 26/04/2023] +SL: Our government leaders did and continue to do a great job to let us have the best public transport in this world. Also don't forget the public transport operators that run the system and improvement can be seen over the years. The next phase maybe is seeing how these service providers can improve further in quality, and continue giving us affordable fair.

[11:44 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi SL,

Another transformation in progress...

We have ordered 400 electric buses and maybe in the near future autonomous drivers (6G) in less congested routes and areas!

Thank you.

[11:44 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Example of costs and or benefits!

[11:45 am, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: S’pore to get 400 new electric buses: Is less air pollution worth the higher costs? 

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/new-electric-buses-is-less-air-pollution-worth-the-higher-costs

[0:03 pm, 26/04/2023] +~L: Yes, definitely worth it. We save money and improve quality of life by people not getting respiratory diseases from the exhaust fumes chocking us at bus stops....! Electric Tech will continually improve. Singapore can be a world leader in Elec-Tech vehicles.

[0:03 pm, 26/04/2023] +~L: Yes, agreed!

[0:09 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Electric buses align with the green and sustainability policy of our government. The foresight from our leaders in caring for our mother earth, Singapore is leading this in this region and is the role model. 👏👏

[0:10 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: What makes SG ticks and triumph over many nations or mega cities?

One, is security within our parameters!

Two, the climate and weather, both are mild and manageable!

Three, our policies and people are generally stable and predictable!

That's what makes SG a safer haven!

[0:17 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Four basics:

Eat, Sleep, Work (learn) and Mobile.

So long these 4 important things are accessible and affordable, it will be alright to more than 80% of any population!

[0:17 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hawker food, Public housing, public transport and institutions of learning and job opportunities!

[0:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Guard these basics well..., there is no reason to oppose and all the propositions will emerge as one energized people, aka social compact?

Who needs opposition unless?

[0:22 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Don't waste time with pathetic opposition!

[0:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Checks and Balances...

Unbalanced or continue to check or all balanced!

This transport issue, is it balanced or unbalanced or needs everyone to check and balance it!

So how to balance this big weighing scale of costs, BENEFITS and public perceptions?

Calling policymakers...!

[0:27 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: From babies to the teens and the seniors are receivers of goods and services.

The bulk of adults (adulthood), they are the contributors of our existential and our existence as a nation!

[0:36 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Ownself check ownself, discipline ownself, promote is not the way!

[0:39 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Is our public transport ready or Future built for climate change?

Heavy rain pouring will cause thousands of commuters soaking wet or stuck at the MRT stations , bus Depot or bus stops unable to transit to work, to school or to activity!

How about the hot scorching sun?

Thank you.

[0:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Self checks perhaps referring to Individuals and not so for the policymakers...

Thank you.

[0:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Have diversity when crucial decisions in the making!

At multiple levels of discussions to find not only solutions but the blindspots that even experts may fail to see!

Thank you.

[0:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Grey area when not reported openly and fairly by sph/mediacorp

[0:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Public and policymakers, hand in hand in a compact set-up!

[0:43 pm, 26/04/2023] +~L: Healthcare too :)

[0:44 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew,

In previous chat, anonymity mentioned about the concept of Fact or fake or fair or unfair; it is an illusion!

An illusion doesn't mean it's not in existence!

It is more than the millions of brains and eyes could comprehend and digest, aka information!

Thank you for bringing it up.

[0:48 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, healthcare, especially for our ageing citizens!

The younger generations will see and learn these interventions of life and life stations!

So what is hope and how about aspiration and lastly trying to compact our society as One united people!

It is not an illusion, it is possible to achieve but the pain to BALANCE all these social challenges must start NOW, for the future can never be known! Aka unknowns unless we have the abilities to "remotely view" the Future?

Thank you for bringing this important fact of life.

[0:51 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: One MEANS is...

Let's not stop these Public consultations stop soon, by this June or by the end of 2023?

"You see, life goes on and on and life changes now and thereafter, it is paramount to continue these Social engagements or you are on the next path of Out of  Touch and the rest will be History...?"

- - anonymity

[0:57 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Key is all of us are HUMAN, ...

Even Lai Tzu, to some was a living sage!

In Short, no human is an expert!

In unison, perhaps, will be the beginning of a force! A force with good intentions and not otherwise dealing with unintended MEANS!

Thank you 

To all policymakers, especially the young, the bright and smart ones..

"Never forget the origin and never forget the power of unity; for whatsoever things, tangible or intangible, from a simple decision to a relationship; think more and embrace compassion and continuity. . For life ITSELF is flowing non-stop and you happen to be in this game of planning on behalf of a nation, that's so important!"

- - Yours Sincere, Anonymity

[0:59 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: It is so easy to win all hearts and all souls!

It is even easier to win over your opponents, lock, stock and barrel!

How to do it?

Who needs opposition when you can find the opposites!

BEYOND Reality

..!

Thank you.

[1:01 pm, 26/04/2023] +Poh S Lim: The formula for the calculation of fares by the PTC is much too complex for the layman to comprehend and even so the data available for any meaningful analysis is limited as well as too dynamic that we just have to accept at face value that the PTC is fixing the fares in good faith for the public. 

Concessional fares to protect vulnerable populations of customers such as the unemployed is good but it places a higher burden on the rest of commuters. Nevertheless concessional fares are necessary as I believe most people will consider freedom to travel in affordable cost as a fundamental ‘right’ in today’s modern society.

[1:02 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: I personally think it's just a cover to justify price increases . Its ironical that the members of the PTC are the type that do not take public transport and you don't actually have any commuters inside it

[1:02 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Complexity in play...

Can also be simplistic too!

Thanks for bringing it up.

[1:03 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Price increases are inevitable!

How to win hearts and souls?

It is more than PR and marketing!

[1:04 pm, 26/04/2023] +Caleb: +1

[1:04 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Unfortunately, it's nothing but PR and marketing

[1:04 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: U can't win hearts and souls when the issue is the wallet

[1:05 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: No hearts and souls there

[1:06 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Using a Hammer to remove a punch of sunk screws?

Using an electric drill to remove these Rusty and embedded screws?

Or using a saw to cut through these holes?

The idea is there are many ways to solve a hardened and stubborn fixture!

Thank you.

[1:07 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: What are u referring to as a hardened and stubborn fixture ?

[1:08 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: The fact that pple cannot accept price increases ?

[1:08 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: The solution is actually simple

[1:08 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Ensure wage increase keeps up with costs

[1:09 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: If not, then you can never remove pple's concerns about the wallet. Sugercoating or changing the tools only goes so far

[1:09 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: By increasing the price of your cake,...

Assuming you will gain more buyers, the faster way of baking and meeting demand 24/7 or your customers will have not much choices but to continue to buy your cakes?

[1:11 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: U can include massage chairs all you like or faster frequency but there is a limit to how much u can increase value. Those who take public transport are usually those who already don't have other choices short go walking or cycling to work

[1:11 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: So for them cost is still the bottom line. I also find it hard to imagine adding all these " niceties" will not load more costs on the consumer

[1:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Public transport is still affordable, that's fact!

[1:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: This are usually done more for premium services where they want to differentiate themselves from a cheaper offering

[1:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: I don’t expect out government leaders to run day to day operations but hv the ability to choose the correct candidate to run the organisation.

For SMRT, previous 2 choices were bad ones. How can career SAF commanders who know next to nothing about train operations run SMRT? These saf commanders brought in people they trusted, also from saf who didn’t know trains.

At least gov got the correct person this time. I hope gov learn from this and don’t make same errors.

[1:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: This doesn't mean it's a justification to hence increase prices. It is a slippery slope

[1:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Work to increase wages

[1:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Then everyone wins

[1:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Not saying it's easy of course

[1:15 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Slippery and friction?

[1:17 pm, 26/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: What's most important is how to keep prices down because it's always up even when oil prices are down..we trust the government and the body that does it. It all depends on the people involved how innovative they are. Everyone can simply solve it by raising prices so no amount of calculations can convince us. We know when you're playing with numbers. Only impact would be lost trust in government

[1:18 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: How to build extra capacity or ridership?

Borrow from your neighbor?... Malaysia -SG HSR!

[1:18 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: SG uses LNG

[1:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Marginal increase cannot be avoided

[1:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: This may lead to a wages-price spiral that perpetual cycling on rising wages with rising living costs and vice verse till the whole economic system breaks apart, i.e., economic collapse.

[1:22 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Breakdowns or losen of the social compact..

[1:22 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: From an economic Activity perspective, continued rising prices will lead to the demand for wages increasing.

[1:24 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Arguably, structures and linkages of SG micro economies on the whole are stable!

Human to human aspect is another matter that needs closer attention to it.

Thank you.

[1:26 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: As per an IMF article in aug 2021, Economic causes are one of the drivers of social unrest... 😱

[1:52 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Lets switch to higher gear to discuss and to explore...

China, from 2008 to 2020, spent (in red) over $900 billion on their domestic railway systems, commonly known as the HSR.

Flip it?

If we scale down to our systems of transportation from bikes, cars, buses and trains, what were the costs  and benefits from 2008 to 2020? And 2020 happened to be in the mist of the pandemic!

[1:54 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: The period to include recessions, slowed down and growths...

[1:54 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Let's switch to higher gear and discuss.

Thank you.

[2:00 pm, 26/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

On Tuesday (25 Apr), the Public Transport Council announced that the formula used to determine public transport fares has been adjusted to include two fixed components to reduce swings in fare changes.

💬 What are your views on the new formula to determine public transport fares? How can the Government balance fare affordability while ensuring the financial sustainability of public transport operators?

In August 2022, PTC was tasked with reviewing the fare adjustment formula to account for changes in commuting patterns, and to balance fare affordability and the financial sustainability of the public transport sector. Such reviews typically take place every five years. 

The review was done after engaging with commuters in several focus groups …

[3:11 pm, 26/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Firstly, cannot really comment on the formula - which I believe the public transport fare is derived from a complex pricing math model.

This is the domain of the transport specialist.

2. However, coming from a logical point of view, the following parameters would have build into the pricing formula to ensure transport fare is affordable and transport operators business is sustainable :-

a. Price affordability to commuters

b. Operating costs of transport operators

The operating costs of transport operators should take into account :-

i. Efficiency in operation (without unnecessary wastage) that should take into account :-

- Labour cost

- Automation to beef up productivity and reduce oversize manpower cost

- Ability to achieve SLA (Service Level Agreement) to commuters - formulated by Transport Authority in tandem to customer satisfaction

- Energy efficiency

- Maintenance cost

- Revenue from non-transport source - such as advertisement, leasing out of retail spaces etc.

- Government subsidies on vulnerable groups such as students, elderly, disabilities, lower-wage income group.

ii. Factor in inflation due to unexpected global supply disruption

- Energy price hike

- Material (eg. spare parts) price hike

2. As long as the complex public transport pricing math model formula take all the above into account ---- then it will be an objective, rational, sustainable and fair pricing formula --- as it will have address 2 important objectives :-

a. Price affordability to commuters

b. Business sustainability to transport operators.

[3:29 pm, 26/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

3. Of course, commuter ridership and commuter volume - will determine the viability of the public transport.

The more people take public transport - the lower the transport fare - as higher fare revenue - will make transport operators more profitable - hence less incentive to raise transport fare to cover transport operating cost.

4. Some MRT lines are heavily used - eg. Red line, Green line, Orange line - while some lines are light - less passengers.

- Not sure how will this translate into transport fare for the various lines. 

- The heavily patronized lines will have subsidise the more lightly used lines. But I noticed most of the time, the lightly used lines are redundant lines to those heavily used lines.

Eg. Brown line - TEL line - can also go Orchard and Dhoby Gaut - backing up Red line and the Orange line.

- So if the more commuters take the newer backup lightly used lines - than there commuting pattern will be more evenly distributed - and reducing cross subsidy across the line ----- just some mulling thoughts.

[3:29 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: 26 April, 2023

An Inclusive Decision-Making Model?

Today, our people have reached a higher level of education standards and most citizens are educated if not highly educated! 

Besides reaching out to the thousands of citizens for their opinions or views on various issues, that is one good way, a good starting point to connect and engage our citizens - REACH!

What is a divest committee?

Diversity can mean all walks of life;  it includes the members of the public from the young, the middle age, the seniors, Experts and Policymakers.

Up to 25% will be members of the public with NO political party affiliations NOR representing any interest group, of sound minded with minimum education from any IHL.

An example elsewhere, the jury system. The jury that pre…

[3:38 pm, 26/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Since on the topic of transport - just one slight mention - with the soaring COE prices across the categories - there are some voices to urge "allow average Singaporeans to own car" -- for social needs such as the needs to send babies to grandparents, nurseries to take care so both parents can worketc, send elderlies to see doctors, buy groceries for those household with inconvenience public transport (those stay in ulu areas) or those work in ulu areas.

2. Some of this voice feel that maybe creating another extra category that meet this criteria to bid for COE reserve for Singaporean citizens only - and put a maximum COE cap below $60,000.

[3:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Any consideration to expand the car-sharing on car petrol - the current car rental for an electricity model is expensive for item #2?

[3:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Current petrol car-sharing platforms do not have sufficient vehicles for sharing to cater to the short-period demand in item #2.

[3:45 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Typo, I means to meet demand for item # 1 instead of 2.

[3:46 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: My big finger pressed the wrong keypad.

[3:47 pm, 26/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well, I feel that allowing some valves for some household to get access to cars maybe needed though I support car light - using public transport.

I no longer own cars though I have been driving cars for decades.

Public transport now serve me fine.

But I do see the value of access to cars for some household such as the examples I listed above.

So addressing the soaring coe may be needed.

Else it may unnecessary turn into a political issue which we should minimise - as the leadership transition is vital for our future survival at the backdrop of very challenging external environment.

[3:47 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Babies and seniors..

[4:00 pm, 26/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

On Tuesday (25 Apr), the Public Transport Council announced that the formula used to determine public transport fares has been adjusted to include two fixed components to reduce swings in fare changes.

💬 What are your views on the new formula to determine public transport fares? How can the Government balance fare affordability while ensuring the financial sustainability of public transport operators?

In August 2022, PTC was tasked with reviewing the fare adjustment formula to account for changes in commuting patterns, and to balance fare affordability and the financial sustainability of the public transport sector. Such reviews typically take place every five years. 

The review was done after engaging with commuters in several focus groups …

[4:02 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: So, u mean keep wages low and keep hiking prices ? That isn't gonna work either

[4:05 pm, 26/04/2023] +William: If the gov fully supports 100%, WFH would affect us lesser. (Jobs that able)

And suggest giving a concessions card, which my wife got it but not me 🙄, to those earning less than 60k yearly. 😊

[4:05 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Car lite is good as it is environmentally friendly, discourages waste, and maintains sustainability, an example: A 3 generations family with grandparents and babies may need a vehicle for bonding activities during the weekend, and it is challenging to use public bus and train with the number of members in the household with the different aging group. 

The only option is car renting, private hire, and taxi for the family. Theoretically, this will discourage the family from visiting various locations on the same day. I m not sure consumer activity, bonding with relatives and friends will be affected as well from a behavioral perspective.

[4:08 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: The wage increment should be aligned with productivity increase for sustainability. Wages increment should not be the solution for a price increase.

[4:09 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: I can also turn it around and say that business productively can be increased to avoid increasing costs

[4:09 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: And hence prices

[4:09 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Of course I m not asking for wage increase with business growth

[4:10 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: But just increasing prices and keep wages flat just means more profits for business owners

[4:10 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: As someone astutely mentioned

[4:10 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: When oil goes up price goes up, when oil goes down, prices stay up because " there are other costs involved "

[4:11 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Without

[4:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Its seductive messaging that is trotted out too often in Singapore . Wages must be low or businesses will be fleeing the country , yet u don't hear the same warnings when prices keep going up

[4:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: 26 April, 2023

"Assumptions and assuming...?"

To laymen, this transport formula is meaningless; the unintended outcome is a common belief that this formula will always mean fare increase?

The communication of this formula should be better explained in simple examples of the variables + fixed and each variable, the meaning and how it arrived as one element of this formula.

To educate the public this formula so that they will accept and agree with the fare increase, the reasons and the use of this money. 

As for any fare decrease, not much to explain about?

[4:15 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Does anyone know who comprises of the PTC? I brought up the point just now that the members are all relatively well off people who prob drive to work. Won't it make sense to have some actually commuters inside the committee?

[4:17 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Is the price increased because the cost of material/goods import going up, which factors cannot be controlled by businesses in Singapore, which results in the cost being passed down to the consumers?

[4:18 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Good question but does the PTC share this ?

[4:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: The composition has somewhat changed since former district judge Richard Magnus stepped down recently.  However, no clear indication of actual transport commuters in the committee.

[4:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: I think most are elites leh

[4:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: I mean one of the members I'd a judge 😂

[4:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Is

[4:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: 26 April, 2023

An Inclusive Decision-Making Model?

Today, our people have reached a higher level of education standards and most citizens are educated if not highly educated! 

Besides reaching out to the thousands of citizens for their opinions or views on various issues, that is one good way, a good starting point to connect and engage our citizens - REACH!

What is a divest committee?

Diversity can mean all walks of life;  it includes the members of the public from the young, the middle age, the seniors, Experts and Policymakers.

Up to 25% will be members of the public with NO political party affiliations NOR representing any interest group, of sound minded with minimum education from any IHL.

An example elsewhere, the jury system. The jury that pre…

[4:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: The 0.5 ccpi + 0.4 wi + 0.1 ei in PT computation reflect this.

[4:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: What does those mean ?

[4:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Again, how are those ccpi and ei calculated

[4:21 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: How much profit is set for the transport companies ?

[4:22 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Which are the main costs that businesses cannot control and have to be passed to consumers

[4:22 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Ccpi is the core cpi published by govt. Like wise i think the energy index is from govt statistic.

[4:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Now, not sure

[4:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Then u also ask, how can consumers bear those costs. Won't the consumers similarly be bearing the same increased costs that they have no control . Like fuel goes up, power bills also goes up for eg

[4:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: So who helps them?

[4:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Double whammy

[4:24 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: If u think about it

[4:24 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: If costs are going up, then companies are charging their customer more by passing the cost down

[4:24 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Won't they be then paying their employees more since they will make more money ?

[4:25 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: If not, then where is the money going ?

[4:44 pm, 26/04/2023] +~L: Shareholders pockets. C Suite bonuses.

[4:45 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Yeah

[4:52 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/inflation-energy-and-wage-costs-to-have-larger-impact-on-fare-adjustments-than-formula-changes-analysts

[4:56 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: 26 April, 2023

How about increasing the road tax for luxury cars, followed by big capacity or high value motorbikes? Up to $1,000 annual road tax payable for these big cars. Commercial vehicles unchanged.

How about ERP for luxury cars and high-end motorcycles? Up to $8 per entry and motorcycles at $2 per entry, the whole day?

These luxury fees collected can help towards the public transport expenses.

[4:56 pm, 26/04/2023] +TD: This is good to know

[4:56 pm, 26/04/2023] +Caleb: +1

[4:57 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Robinhood concept...

Tax the abled folks and help the folks in need!

[4:59 pm, 26/04/2023] +TD: Should just implement COE and road tax for bicycles

[5:00 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: MPA should look at the leisure boat fees too.

Under 50 feet, above 50 feets, more than 100 feet and lastly, the big fat ones!

Are these taxable avenues?

[5:01 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Subject to Vicom tests?

[5:02 pm, 26/04/2023] +Fulgrim: Did the employees get good raises ? 🤣

[5:04 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Not sure but depends on definition of good raises!?

[5:05 pm, 26/04/2023] +TD: And only on Road going bicycles. Need plates and insurance as well

[5:06 pm, 26/04/2023] +TD: Since a lot of these AMDK can drop 5 figure sums on a bicycle, I don't see why they cant top up for COE and insurance if they die die want to use the roads

[5:10 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: because bicycle is a form of health exercise espically after our PM tok to biking in a few of his walk about people start thinking is a form of endorsement followed by a few other mps

[5:10 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but these govt people did not endorse them to ride like idiots in their so call tour de merlion

[5:11 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: instead PCN riding was great encourage but the tour de merlion riders find it too crowded and kiddy

[5:11 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: well suggestion is tear away the PCN build so many for wat

[5:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: expand the road

[5:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: let more car and cyclist fight over the limited space

[5:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Taxi and Private hired fares going up too? Hope not?

Are the stakeholders like private hired cars and taxis allowing a differentiation price for seniors and the disabled people. These vulnerable people are the most affected by this increase in taxi and Private hired way of moving around!

During off-peak, 20% discount from the peak prices?

By issuing vouchers to offset transport cost may not solve the longer term of utility.

[5:12 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: those who wanna tour de france make then put on erp device too and place erp gantry on those routes by tour de merlion

[5:13 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: taxi far had never been up for so many donkey years till recently

[5:13 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: all thank to pte hirers market

[5:13 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: $2 per ERP entry.

[5:13 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: look public should not complaint about PHV cos public were the one to push the govt to open up

[5:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i remember durin gthe pre covid days for concerts nites

[5:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: pax are paying up to 300 per trip from changi to town

[5:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: taxi ... well for limo is control price per trip about 60-70 that time

[5:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: There is always a rational price to pay for services or goods...

[5:14 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: normalc taxi we are the one eating grass meter only

[5:15 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but during those times did anyone say expansive nil

[5:15 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: instead they claim taxi is expensive till today

[5:15 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so for those who say taxi is expensive please continue to support ur dear PHV cos they are the one that sets the bar for dynamic pricing dun blame the taxi

[5:16 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if not happy still please take the MRT or bus

[5:18 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: This Public transport price adjustment exercise will no doubt cause unhappiness, though it will be a short spell of no longer than 6 months! That's how typical human memory works!

After the increase comes all related or non related inflation of prices from 5% onwards. That's called market sentiments in play!

It is impossible to police any profiteers because it is a dynamic Economic system all in play!

[5:18 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also when we talk about increased for PT note IT DOES NOT INCLUDE PHV AND TAXI

[5:18 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Consumers' decide...

[5:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: remember taxi is a luxury transport is not under public tansport

[5:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Sooner or later, its an ecosystem!

[5:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that is one o fthe reason for donkey years the fair for taxi was at so low till many taxi drivers got pissed off

[5:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: u tell that to the govt lor

[5:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Sick elderly need taxi or PVD to transit to doctor.

[5:19 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: it will never be if will long ago will be induced as public transport

[5:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Various MEANS of transiting

[5:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is a mode of transport but dun understand why cannot be public transport for taxi

[5:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: An ecosystem

[5:20 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: mabe is held by a pte ltd

[5:21 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Grab or NTUC or Private bus operators?

[5:21 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: maybe

[5:21 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: "Human movements and migrations are vast and can be in a variety of modes, from solo walking, driving, cruising, flying and to mass commuting,...each mode carries a cost and benefit marker/market and the higher the capacity/frequency of movement will cost more and not necessarily beneficial to some or all...?"

- - anonymity

[5:21 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: grab is 100% pte ltd

[5:22 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: of cos we dun need to know who are one of the major share holder

[5:25 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Comparatively to bus or MRT, taxis are the premium service of transportation.

It is also an important vehicle mode of transport.

[5:25 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: impt no reh is been so mis used and misunderstand

[5:25 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Friction creates accident

[5:25 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: only thos ein the inudstry will know

[5:26 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: frankly residents here all very entitle mindset

[5:26 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so let them fight good for hospital, workshop, insurance

[5:27 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if wanna talk about public transport be sure to up the delivery of service first

[5:27 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: breakdown of any form should not exist

[5:28 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: look at japan rail system (one of the best and insane on time and hardly breakdown)

[5:28 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Petroleum can be an addiction?

In the 1900, petroleum led the world from mechanization to industrialisation.

In 2000 and onto 2100, renewable energy will lead to the Digitisation of this world.

So how are the old petroleum owners gonna react or transform themselves?

[5:29 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: In Search of perfection...

[5:30 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Higher costs because of low ridership.

Well maintained and costly too.

[5:30 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Frictions create fruition.

[5:32 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: When the clock turns midnight, so will the fare go up 50%!

Your heart pumps a bit faster too, trying to beat the clock?

[5:33 pm, 26/04/2023] +Uncle Law: Public Transport operators should not be a profit driven company. It should be based on sustainability in ensuring profits goes back to upskill of staffs, maintenance and etc.

And not go back as bonus or high salary for the management or board of directors.

[5:35 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i am refering to PHV surge fare.....

[5:38 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: PHV uses analytics according to supply, demand and timing vs competitors.

Thank you.

[5:39 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Not for profit?

NGOs?

[5:39 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: the point i am driving is consumers not PHV companies they can do whatever high tech stuff but hardly u hear people screaming phv is expansive

[5:39 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Uncle Law, hope things are great at your end!

[5:39 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Willing to pay

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: when the fare they are paying is crazy at times yet people still willing to pay compare to taxi fare in teh end taxi got it for being expensive

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not the willingness to pay is the mindset

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: 300/ 120

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: 40 / 80

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Click and grab a cab!

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Uncle Law: Thanks. Busy with work.

[5:40 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: booking fee of 3.3 people say expesnive but the journey might cos less than a phv ride

[5:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: then they will say no cab

[5:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is the hands of the public that drive our cab population down to under sub 10k now

[5:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: What if the cabbies became a grab?

[5:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: while phv thanks to the public is more triple more than cab

[5:41 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Ageing too

[5:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: how aging are our cabby age

[5:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: u see more and more pme joining them

[5:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: That's a revelation!

[5:42 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: till u in the industry than uwill know how blood sucking grab is

[5:43 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that's not a good news for pme to join taxi or grab

[5:43 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but does the govt care ?

[5:43 pm, 26/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is still a job / occupation

[5:43 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Structural unemployment?

[5:43 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, a proper way of making a living, though is tough!

[6:00 pm, 26/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

On Tuesday (25 Apr), the Public Transport Council announced that the formula used to determine public transport fares has been adjusted to include two fixed components to reduce swings in fare changes.

💬 What are your views on the new formula to determine public transport fares? How can the Government balance fare affordability while ensuring the financial sustainability of public transport operators?

In August 2022, PTC was tasked with reviewing the fare adjustment formula to account for changes in commuting patterns, and to balance fare affordability and the financial sustainability of the public transport sector. Such reviews typically take place every five years. 

The review was done after engaging with commuters in several focus groups …

[6:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: Y

[6:23 pm, 26/04/2023] +Rama: 🤷‍♂️

[6:26 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Tokyo metrol cost average 250 JPY, it is about 2.50 SGD equavalent in today fx rate. It is much more expensive as compared to Singapore.

[6:29 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: Renewable will only lead when scientists/investors resolve the energy storage issue. Otherwise, it remains an alternative to fossil fuels.

[6:29 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Thanks SL for digging the data!

[6:30 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Next 20 years in transition to transform and get rid of petroleum...

[6:32 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: What if MRT and public buses are barely making or it has all along losing money (aka tampa Wang)?

These infrastructures are not cheap to run, to maintain and to upgrade!

[6:32 pm, 26/04/2023] +SL: The ultimate goal of lower down the use of fossil fuels is achievable.. Timeline is Those that are interesting.

[6:33 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: Transformations and thereafter generative!

Thanks SL for bringing it up.

[6:46 pm, 26/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[6:55 pm, 26/04/2023] +Smiley face: 26 April, 2023

To: Our Distinguished Leaders, PTC and All Honorable Members 

"The Games of Moving People"

"Human movements and migrations are vast and can be in a variety of modes, from solo walking, driving, cruising, flying and to mass commuting,...each mode carries a cost and benefit marker/market and the higher the capacity and frequency of movements will cost more and not necessarily beneficial to some or all,...Is it a producer's surplus or consumers benefitting the most?"

- - anonymity 

China:

The world's longest, biggest and most ambitious rail project - HSR! 

This over a billion people country has proven time after time that the social costs and the economic benefits may not always be aligned, worse it brings more deficit than profits! This instance is the high speed rail system that spans more than 40,000km with 31 rail lines and only 5 of which are breaking even; this dynamic transportation game of moving people!

So what's the current benefits and importantly, the costs?

Taken from the Bureau of Statistics of China, the entirety of the HSR has been running into the red and the cumulated loss was $900 billions from 2008 to 2020 and it's counting.

The obvious benefits are numerous from convenience to connectivity.  For commuters who are not rushing, they can choose an overnight Shenzhen to Shanghai train which cost  $139 that saves one nite of hotel stay in Shanghai or more savings for not taking a flight! That's consumers' benefits or consumers' surplus!

And how about other mega projects like the Three Gouges dam, the North-South water transfer project and the HK-ZH-MO bridge? All of these people moving projects are crucial infrastructures to gain at the same time all of these examples carries a continuous costs to China! 

Are these affordable projects? In the longer run or it will amortize itself over time and what experts and people will call it, on the hindsight, it's WORTHINESS?

Afterwords:

"The Choo-Choo Trains Story of SG"

Years ago, the MRT was heavily crucified by the public for the lack of maintenance that led to many malfunctions and trains stoppages! There was even criticism of poor succession planning; this case was the retirements of many senior staff that perhaps added to the loss of valuable experience of there senior staffs and the Junior ones were not able to bridge and or to comprehend the extensive and complexity of these multiple parts of the function of electric, electronic and mechanical interface!

Yes, lack of maintenance was/is, no excuse!

Looking back in time and starring it today, our MRT infrastructures have transformed and improved with lesser breakdowns compared to the last five years though it still has its hicks up now and then!

And yes, the retail space that was once incrementally purpose built is adding to the revenue of MRTC (established 1983)! 

And not to forget, a token of appreciation to President Ong, Min Mah, Min Khaw and the past Ministers by ensuring continuity and enduring the public scrutiny - our Choo-Choo trains! 

Power shutdown at North-South, East-West lines: Past major train disruptions

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/power-shutdown-at-north-south-east-west-lines-past-major-train-disruptions

https://mothership.sg/2015/07/the-worst-mrt-breakdown-in-spores-history-occurred-on-smrts-16th-annual-general-meeting-on-7715/#:~:text=Possibly%20the%20worst%20MRT%20breakdown,SMRT's%2016th%20Annual%20General%20Meeting.

Tender called for 400 electric buses in the largest purchase of its kind by LTA 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/tender-called-for-400-electric-buses-in-the-largest-purchase-of-its-kind-by-lta

[7:00 pm, 26/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====

REACH 448 -  What are your views on the points raised during the debates on the President's Address? How can we continue to uphold values like participation, integrity and inclusivity in our political process?

(SK)

 24 Apr 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:09 am, 24/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10.15am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:15 am, 24/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

As the debate on the President's Address wrapped up in Parliament last week, Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong stressed that there is no place for populism and political opportunism in Singapore, citing the division and polarisation that has taken root in developed democracies abroad. 

“If you look at many of these countries, populism has taken root and populism has damaged greatly their societies, divided and polarised their people,” he said, explaining that populism is politics that distorts the facts for political advantage and will damage Singapore in the long term.

💬 What are your views on the points raised during the debates on the President's Address? How can we continue to uphold values like participation, integrity and inclusivity in our political process?

Key takeaways from the debates are as follows:

📌 No place for populism, political opportunism in S’pore

Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong stressed that the Government rejects populism and upholds honesty and integrity in policymaking, adding that the Government and the Opposition should call each other out if either should fall short of these standards.

Earlier on Monday, DPM Wong had called on the opposition to offer a serious alternative agenda and be upfront about the trade-offs, instead of putting forth opportunistic or populist ideas that chip away at trust in the Government. 

Mr Singh agreed with DPM Wong that calling each other out ought to work both ways, but noted that variations of the Worker's Party's policies - such as anti-discrimination legislation, minimum wage and redundancy insurance - were being considered by the Government.

📌 English proficiency valued but it should not be sole criterion for new citizenship applications

“The knowledge of English at the working level, while helpful, should not be a defining or indeed a limiting factor, which might happen if you introduce it as a test, as a single point test,” Minister for Culture, Community and Youth Edwin Tong said. The minister also said that an English test may not be the best marker of an applicant’s ability to integrate in Singapore.

He pointed to the country’s immigration framework, which was “tightened significantly in 2009”, that considers a broader range of factors, including family ties to Singapore, whether the applicant has studied here or has done National Service. These other factors would be “equally, if not perhaps in some cases, more effective” as a marker of integration.  

Mr Tong noted that the Constitution currently states that one of the markers for naturalisation is working knowledge of any of the four official languages.

📌 Being more open with data

The Government should become more open to releasing data, and not be dismissive or “breezily” use national security or sensitivity as reasons for withholding information without good reason, said Leader of the Opposition Mr Pritam Singh.

In moving this motion on the debate on the President’s Address, Mr Murali Pillai (Bukit Batok) had said that the “nature of the electorate is changing and today, a new generation is emerging”.

Mr Singh said Singaporeans seek a fairer, more inclusive and more caring society, and greater openness with sharing information will be fundamental to a refreshed social compact.

👉 https://str.sg/i4Fc

👉 https://str.sg/i4yP

👉 https://str.sg/i4Fk

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/english-test-new-citizens-pr-applications-pritam-singh-edwin-tong-3436806

---

[10:19 am, 24/04/2023] +Liangwei: 1) Give due credit to each other. Eg if WP suggests a good idea , do give credit n vice versa. It will build a nicer culture. By all means call out n debate

2) Greater transparency of data is helpful. The default should be release of data unless there are clear reasons not to do so.

[10:21 am, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Ruling party will never do away gutter politics!

[10:29 am, 24/04/2023] +~L: "offer a serious alternative agenda and be upfront about the trade-offs, instead of putting forth opportunistic or populist ideas that chip away at trust in the Government." - definitely agree. 

One solution is to encourage constructive critical thinking in Singapore. The opposition, I think,is falling back on easy, time-proven techniques to appeal to emotional instincts, because they need to feel relevant. Building an opposition in Singapore will take a very long time and should focus on trust and not quick wins.

[10:29 am, 24/04/2023] +~L: Agreed

[10:31 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: only in an idea world will one party give praise to another

[10:31 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: politics is like class room -> which top student will want to see the competitor fare better?

[10:35 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: even in the great land of the freedom see the way the 2 parties bitch about one another .. is a good example politics will never be fair nor clean .. thus whatever rubbish freedom and democracy ... they claim, a country govt good or no good is how the society well being is

[10:38 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: populism, political opportunism -> seems like is the only tactic use by the opposition on the face they voicing out for the people, does the current winning care yes but not that much cos whatever they do will be condemned by the people (which is natural as life has shown whoever is in power will have another voice of discomfort around)

[10:40 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: English proficiency valued but it should not be sole criterion for new citizenship applications -> i agree on this looked at those who can speak english of native english speaking countries or from india. are they willing to follow the practices' of when in room behave like Roman? NO and yes is a strong no here cos socially we can see how many of these people try to inject their culture and way of life back home into our society (this is very disgusting and self center mindset).

[10:41 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: a good example from a certain website in singapore some of these so call indians will state their last name while looking for jobs or rent of housing in singapore.. this is part of their screw up mindset that hey in india my last name belong to a upper class thus society have to give me face and priority, while the whites many will see asia as a place where they are one notch up

[10:42 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just like how us cannot stand to see a an asian countries better than them not to mentioned they might not be even happy to see a EU country better than them

[10:42 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thus the more important aspect is the ability to merge with the society where one is going to work or migrate the roots of the family

[10:43 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Being more open with data -> depending lah certain data cannot any how release

[10:43 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like in a company only top mgt will have access to the most sensitive data.

[10:44 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so is natural to understand some data will be keep away from public eye, what good does it do for the public with these data more gossip on the ground? the fine pick more bones?

[10:45 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also are these data really the data or had been tweak ..... which is common in todays world

[10:45 am, 24/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Agreed.

And if WP (or anyone in parliament for that matter) asks for data to be revealed, just reveal the data.  Don't tell us why it is not relevant in 101 different ways and wasting everyone's time.  Just reveal the data and let us be the judge if it is relevant or not.

[10:46 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: I don’t think any country will lump citizen with PR :))

[10:52 am, 24/04/2023] +SL: Populists promote the homogeneous group of “A” vs. “B” and the antagonistic relationship between both groups will affect the society's unity and divide those within society 😱

[10:54 am, 24/04/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Am quite certain that the person asking for data in parliament is not silly enough to ask for data to be made public that can harm the security of singapore.  If it is, perhaps the data can be shared with the person in private and the person shares with us us a sanitised version of the facts.

[11:01 am, 24/04/2023] +SL: What type of data cannot get from Statistics Singapore? Micro or macro data for policy suggestion formulation? 

The following form is available. 

https://www.singstat.gov.sg/our-services-tools-surveys/statistical-enquiries/data-request-form

[11:02 am, 24/04/2023] +SL: The faq mentioned:

Frequently Asked Questions

What kind of reply can I expect?

The reply will

Point you to online resources (free or fee-based)

Offer you relevant customised fee-based statistics(subject to data availability) You can ask for a non-obligatory quotation for customised statistics when filling up the form.

[11:07 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Types of Data

1) Working in progress or working papers, a preliminary research in progress with no conclusion or the final findings.

2) Sensitive, only available to selected individuals or cabinet members or a committee who are sworn by the secrecy acts.

3) Sensitized, selectively attainable through institutions though not publicly accessible.

4) Desensitized, publicly available information.

[11:09 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Perhaps, WP is seeking level 2 clearance, or at level 3 to view and give alternate solutions or investigate or  launching their research?

[11:10 am, 24/04/2023] +TD: MOM has been lumping Citizens together with PR forever

[11:12 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: In the US secrecy protocol, the above are levels to consider.

From the White House and into each agency and each committee, there are limitations in terms of assess and access of information or data.

One concern is leakages and their next is misinterpreting data.

[11:12 am, 24/04/2023] +SL: Is those statistics required for policy professionals required are real-time data and not available in other open sources?

[11:12 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Lump or separate or segregate...

[11:13 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: Can I ask if non local see the data will it consider safe ?

[11:13 am, 24/04/2023] +TD: I believe a lot of people have been asking for employment statistics that seperates Singaporeans from Singapore Residents - yet to see

[11:14 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi SL,

WP intent and frustration perhaps lies in the "us not included in the WIP"

Thanks for bringing it up.

[11:14 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: In 2014 to 2015 I think a lot of scholarship holder are non local serve in a lot of public places right ?

[11:15 am, 24/04/2023] +TD: Also - why are Foreign worker Quotas tied to SC and PR numbers?

Shouldnt it be SC numbers only since PRs are FOREIGNERS?

[11:15 am, 24/04/2023] +Dan: Populism is distorting facts to gain political advantage is a very strong statement.

[11:15 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi KL, 

There will be a certain level of clearance in order to work or assess a ministry or an agency data, work process and impeding policies changes and so on..

Thank you

[11:16 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: But before they assign to usa for placement they quickly wanted to find a husband to go with them :))

[11:16 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: It show a lot I also did not realise till 2019

[11:17 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Popularity contests happened in school days!

Moreover we are talking about a bigger dynamic that is a contestation between the proposition and the opposition of a political game!

The idea is extreme or excessive popularity...

Thank you.

[11:18 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi KL,

One thing cannot stop, courting and going out with your dates...

Thank you.

[11:20 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Categorizing according to legal status that is citizenship and so on...

How about age groups, five years spread.

Thanks.

[11:21 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Perhaps, it can be done in CLOSED DOOR meetings and under the oath of a higher than the OSA!

Thanks.

[11:27 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: "Data can be meaningful and powerful...

Data can be distorted and inaccurate."

- - anonymity 

The process of obtaining data  MUST be carefully quantified before you qualify that the data collected are worth every data point as a whole and turning into a big data for analytics.

When? 

Data scientists start the process of analytics, using AI or non AI, the key is the quiry must be highly specific so that the ends will be accurate so will be the applications towards policy making or crafting new ones.

How?

It a meticulous process of mining and sorting out these data points.

Thank you.

[11:29 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: It not about dating but intention

[11:30 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: "Allowing the opposites to bridge over the proposed gate keeper,...over the course of time, the opposite will become  properly sitting in..., Are you comfortable sitting with the opposite?"

- - anonymity

[11:31 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Intention or hidden agendas, that's human nature!

Is a personal matter, likes or loves... 

Thank you

[11:31 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: somehow i have an impression singapore is doing charity and maintaining good diplomatic relation by offering "scholarship"in our uni, while a good percentag eof our population cannot attend u due to NS and to prevent uni from running into red

[11:32 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: even if they hold public office position who are we to say wah lau why like that cos look at our dying population (chicken and egg theory again) and if ALL public office is run by singapore den the pte sector how still need to import more right

[11:33 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: on parliament / govt data -> i think somewhere many years ago some oppo ppl got leak some data which is meant for behind doors ..i could be wrong ..

[11:33 am, 24/04/2023] +KL: I know I know they will say u from em3 :))

[11:34 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Allowing all boys to proceed with their 1st university degree and then go for NS...

Any implications to our competitiveness, our micro economies, future careers, HDB, procreation and so on?

[11:34 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: this will go back to the not debate of NS again

[11:35 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: people have to remember we are a botak land

[11:35 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Just don't sell to third parties or to foreign countries!

[11:35 am, 24/04/2023] +Rama: 😞😳😠

[11:35 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: the only revenue we have is human beans no beings ahhh

[11:35 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: without these beans whatever economy and plan will all fall thru

[11:36 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun everything got IT mah got AO mah see what happen to ICA and DBS ahhh

[11:36 am, 24/04/2023] +SL: I don't understand why wip data is needed. My understanding of the legislative branch: write up in memorandum and statement need holistic past data, which used to support the draft bills that will be put up. Isn't it?

[11:36 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: The quality of workforce matters.... besides having a big population.

[11:37 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: behind all these tech you still need reliable IT minds and workers

[11:37 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: aiya smile face hit the same note .. hahahaha

[11:38 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: WP wants to make policy too!

Inclusiveness, that's what they are driving into...

So what is TRUST and this case TRUST AMONG THE HONORABLE MEMBERS of parliament?

TRUSTING or not so TRUSTING?

Thanks, SL

[11:39 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: they make policies ... ? policies which touch the ham or my heart of allow me to have more than 5 cars per household

[11:40 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or make sure every one in singapore MUST AND DIE DIE MUST SPEAK english

[11:40 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: How about reconfigure policy from highly sensitive to normality?

WP can assess and collaborate from the bottoms to the mid?

[11:40 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: 5 cars per household, that is not possible!

[11:40 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is better they go source for more credible candidates and people who can put up better topics ...

[11:41 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: why not mr touch my ham in the heart is already inidcating that

[11:41 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: must make it easy for singaporeans to own a car

[11:41 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: English plus a second language not just  Chinese, Malay or Tamil..

Things changed!

[11:42 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Affordable or needs or wants?

[11:42 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: car is not a need

[11:42 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is a luxury item in our land

[11:43 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: How to source for candidates?

The PAP and WP, both have their means...

Do you know the means?

Thanks.

[11:43 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: affordable or not is up to the govt to control assuming coe is really controlled by th emarket force (demand and supply)

[11:44 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Yes!

Thanks, Ah Heng.

[11:44 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to determine what is a good candidate of a new citizen is not only a language thing there are more criteria to consider of cos i am sure our application do not have based on your country of origin lang (to enable applicant to filled up)

[11:45 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also a person might know english but is up to one prerogative to use or not use it, like myself auntie in market speak mandarin to me i die die want to speak hokkien so will i be discriminated?

[11:46 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: maybe i go ntuc try next time

[11:46 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: see if any kaypo will discriminate me

[11:46 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Present job attained and the sector.

Years in SG?

Number of kids?

Age of this applicant?

Highest education?

[11:46 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Pls test the system.

Thanks.

[11:46 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also for the high network is their investment

[11:47 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like u msia u think they will die die say ehh u must pass our berhasa melayu before u can apply for the what new retirement plan in msia

[11:47 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: or like Thailand before u can apply that retriement plan in thailand you must pass the intermediate thai lang

[11:48 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Of cos, if a billionaire or multi millions brings in big Money to invest...sure!

How long this big money stays is another matter!

Money flows and money goes...

[11:48 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Money talks!

[11:48 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no the firstthing that shout on the application form ... HOW MUCH IS UR ASSETS TO BRING IN .. HOW MUCH IS YOUR MONTHLY INCOME .. ETC ETC

[11:48 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: MONEY talks and honey will walk...

[11:49 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ok dun say much say ourself if you go to japan one will also try to speak abit of their language right even as tourist

[11:49 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Analytics will show ...

[11:49 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Try SPEAKING English...

[11:49 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so what makes one thing those who stay here will forever speak their own lang ok i know certain nationality will die to their caste system

[11:49 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: It takes time to immerse...

[11:50 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Self Referencing....this concept.

[11:50 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and is a beauty of us singaporeans because we are multi racial we accomodate and we understand other races in our land thus when we travel we try to understand other culture and be like them

[11:51 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so what is this call for NEW CITIZENS to speak english .. ehh frankly some of the new citizens non chinese i dun understand the shit of what they say ok

[11:51 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Clever Singaporeans rather than being ignorant folks...

[11:51 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Chinese Also can..

[11:52 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: "In life, we human find our fits. Besides career or job and dreaming big, we have a long list of wishes, ideas and considerations to feed and to satisfy. At each portion of life, hopefully, we will gain a sense of fulfilment, settlement and fittings in our mind and there on moving forward with stride and confidence- anywhere and any moment !'

- - anonymity

[11:52 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: frankly the chinese are now more aware of they social behavior's now then other nationals on this small land who think they are still in their own motherland bringinin toxic culture and social system while some try to inject their idealistic ways of life when they DO NOT EVEN LIVED IN A MULTI CULTURE SOCIETY

[11:54 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: in short no political party is 100% right but ask ur self and really touch ur heart and tongue IS ONE READY OF TODAY OPPO TO EVEN CHECK THE RULING PARTY ?

[11:54 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: for me is a no cos like time both parties had lost men of wisdom and foresight

[11:54 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: inface globally

[11:55 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: many wise men who had foresight and wisdom to run a country are gone .....

[11:56 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: people who have the skills to play the political game are no longer as suave as those from the past .. where a word from them will rise the fire in to to do certain thing, to feel belong

[11:56 am, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: HUMANs are born and gifted with this thing, EGO!

pls research on this thing and you will see many possibilities and challenges!

How to tame this hidden thing?

The more successful you are, the mighty this thing inside you!

Thank you.

[11:58 am, 24/04/2023] +Rama: A common denominator is required!

[11:58 am, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Ceca Indian!

[11:59 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: den i tell u singlish and whoever say is not official please look up in oxford dictionary (if anyone remembers what is a dictionary)

[11:59 am, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is a lang else the terms of our singlish will not be in there

[0:01 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Tell that to GCT!

[0:01 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i sonly recently added to oxford lah

[0:01 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is after his time

[0:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we need to be fare and based on facts cannot happy happy wack people

[0:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: else what diff it makes to mr touch my ham like saying it take 3 yr to own a car in singapore and 14mths to own a car in usa

[0:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Add a few hokkien lingo into the proper Oxford English speaking community?

[0:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Cost of livings?

[0:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Why GCT?

[0:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: cannot hokkien is hokkien is a chinese dialect

[0:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Any bad about CECA?

[0:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: COE not equal to cost of living

[0:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but cai png is a very good indicator of cost of living

[0:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: I see, is a dialect not many understand...

Thanks.

[0:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Caste consious!

[0:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Remember his comments about singlishnon PCK!?

[0:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: When Indians from India or UK or elsewhere arrive into SG, do they still hold onto this caste?

[0:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: well at least 40 percent of the population understand guys service in ns, wang lei live show etc

[0:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Phua CK, a comedy

[0:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: 40% of 3 millions, then and now..

Thanks.

[0:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[0:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: evn th eprc and some blue collar indians can speak a few words of hokkien ...

[0:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: What so bad about CECA?

BENEFITS is what my matters most!

Thanks.

[0:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ceca is a trade agreement bad or not i dun know

[0:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but results of the treaty is the high influx of the personnel from that country which brings along their toxic culture of social caste system

[0:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Every Morning,...Three things inside a PM or Chairman mind ...

BENEFITS, benefitting and benefited!

[0:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: GS was contemplating migration while gct was serious about routing out singlish.

[0:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[0:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Reciprocation?

[0:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: espically in our society cannot have such toxic mindset / practice ... the same goes for western culture / mindset is above asian no we all are equal

[0:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like our pledge based on equality ....

[0:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no reh hahahahah i dun see chinese / majority of the non asian

[0:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: though they do bitch about our system this and that which is common lah

[0:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: like we bitch about other country when travelling ya

[0:14 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Constitution say 4 natural languages - Chinese, English, Malay, Tamil - should be out working languages.

So is Pritam Singh proposal that English language as mandatory test for new citizens (supported by the 80% gullible 500 cna survey poll) - tantamount to infringing our Constitution?

To be blunt:-

If Pritam Singh proposal goes through - it will change the social fabric of Singapore society whereby :-

1. Those that speak English become a dominant race.

Then Chinese, Malays, Indian that don't speak English plus many others - who are not conversant in English - including our majority of elderly Grandparents, and Parents who can't speak English cannot be citizens of Singapore.

This tear into the social fabric of our Singapore society!

A populist proposal that look good on the surface - but has a big destabilising effect on our nation racial mix as a whole.

[0:15 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: danny > bingo u brought out the words -> english speaking will be the new standard thus a new social caste system will be born

[0:15 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Do we laugh at other systems?

[0:16 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not luff is bitch aka gossip aka compare ...

[0:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: danny -> well said aka no foresight ... A populist proposal that look good on the surface - but has a big destabilising effect on our nation racial mix as a whole.

[0:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Is the Indian construction workers or Bangladesh workers, likewise not so good or ideal?

So are these Indian workers part of CECA?

What is important is these construction workers are doing the hard and dirty works for the progress of our nation.

Not sure about caste...

Thank you

[0:20 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: When people complain about CECA it's never about the blue collar bangalahs. It's the asshats in Chennai Business park and other places

[0:20 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Don't divert the topic.

[0:21 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: these blue colloars will not have time for their caste system cos they slog all day under the sun

[0:21 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: I worked in an MNC where the HR and 2 of the division managers were CECA vermin. Their racism and favouritism were plain to see.

[0:22 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is those who comes here think the country owns them and cannot do without them spreading their caste system among their own clustered circle that are the most dangerous

[0:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is a hypocrite mindset for us to say no lah no such things excist in singapore

[0:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but on ground we all know

[0:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: we all heard the stories

[0:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: some of us even encounter

[0:25 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thus is lang mor impt or the understanding and openness to ditch ur social culture and learn and immerse one self to a new social norm important ....

[0:26 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: How to solve this problem?

[0:29 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: thing they are already on the track on this already ... else there will not be a wording that says English proficiency valued but it should not be sole criterion for new citizenship applications

[0:29 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Don't underestimate them!

[0:29 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: 😳😠🤦‍♂️

[0:29 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[0:30 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: hypocrisy, adaptation, cultures, values, languages...

[0:33 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Immersion course?

2 hours course?

Do and don't and existing bad behaviors or habits of migrants in video?

What are our local norms and acceptable behaviors and common habits?

[0:34 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: No test required...

Self Referencing program.

[0:35 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Waste of time and resources! These

Foreign imported singaporeans will pay lip service only!

[0:35 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: What are ways?

[0:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: None!

[0:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Let it go... tolerates?

[0:39 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: These intend to step on us locals!

[0:40 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: HUMANs are born and gifted with this thing, EGO!

pls research on this thing and you will see many possibilities and challenges!

How to tame this hidden thing?

The more successful you are, the mighty this thing inside you!

Thank you.

[0:40 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Really?

[0:44 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: SGbully, load videos all these unpleasantness regardless of which race, which nationalities...post it!

[0:47 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: You have locals bullied security guards and road bullies ramping on the roads?

Are these social flaws a universal one or specifically at certain nationalities or races?

Ego?

[0:49 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Ceca Indian/Pinoy/Prc arrogance knows no boundaries!

[0:49 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Search various social media sites!

[0:50 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Arrogance...ok!

[0:52 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Does SG itself also have an invincible "CLASS" system?

The highly or abled and the common or simple people?

Sounds similar to the caste?

Is it true or no basis to compare?

Thanks.

[0:56 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes it does!

[1:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +Jimmy Chew: Sadly it does.

[1:16 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: How many categories in this class?

[1:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: 🤷‍♂️

[1:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Hi, Mid, Lo

Hi hi, mid-Hi, lo-Hi, 

Mid-hi, Mid, Mid-low

Lo and Lo Lo

[1:25 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Be BRAVE to know and cannot avoid!

[1:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Respect is still the word as long as we are part of the society

[1:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: in fact no one is rightfully above another being

[1:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Ideally...

[1:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: yeah ideally lor

[1:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Pride and dignity....ego

[1:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: juat like ideally data shoudl be open to all

[1:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Reality is...

[1:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ideally oppo shoudl have constructive arguments

[1:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ideally we shoud have a higher ratio over imports

[1:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Ideally yes, practically any of national security issues.... Sensitized and desensitized data should be ok to access...

[1:39 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: So what is beyond the reality?

[1:39 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: Illusion ahahahaha

[1:41 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Beyond MEANS one can see it through and through!

[1:42 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Reality is NOW!

[1:43 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: in todays world reality and illusion is a very thin line some might say is an oasis ....

[1:43 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Beyond is Beyond NOW, TODAY, BEYOND!

FUTURE is another paradigm shifter!

[1:43 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Fake and fact, both aren't reality! Is an illusion!

[1:44 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Another populist policy propose by WP - is to use more and more of our reserves (60% NIRC to be used for running yearly budget) to replace GST rise of 2%.

2. By doing so, WP is systematically depleting our reserves to the effect of raiding our reserves - to take an easy way out by digging into our piggy banks.

3. What this means is that :-

a. Our reserves will have lesser and lesser capital to generate more interest income and produce more NIRC to fund our running yearly budget and less capital to be plough back into our Sovereign Fund to earn more income.

Eg. Assume we use 60% as our NIRC from our reserves instead of 50%.

This mean 10% more will be used instead of being plough back to our Sovereign Fund to earn more income.

In 2021, our NIRC is $20.3 billion. 10% more is $2.03 billion.

If every year, $2.03 billion are used to finance our yearly fiscal budget, in 10 years we will lose :-

$2.03 billion x 4% interest x 10 = $21.112 billion --- we will lose $21.112 billion in our reserves --- to earn more interest as well as save it for our younger people and our future generations.

b. Our younger and future generations will have lesser and lesser reserves - to safeguard themselves during future crisis and rainy days.

c. We are using and spending more of our future generations money to make ourselves comfortable - which is irresponsible.

If LKY generations do that to us, now we will be poorer and worst off.

4. I am quite annoyed when WP and PSP suggest using land sales to be use of running budget to replace GST increase as well as using more and more of our reserves by increasing our NIRC ---- this will further deplete our reserves - leaving less and less lands and money for the future generations.

5, Hence, I am of the view that WP is in effect adopting populist policies and taking an easy way out to solve our budget problem - but creating a dire financial situation that will greatly impact our future generations.

[1:44 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Archetypes vs Stereotypes?

[1:44 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: totally agree

[1:45 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: danny thus metnioend erlier these oppo are just saying thing to stir shit in the society

[1:45 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to just touch the surface of the matter which lay men voice out

[1:46 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Funds are up and so can it go down!

A fixed or incremental fund will yield a fixed or stable percentage of income!

[1:47 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: "In life matters.., there is no need for the opposition unless the proposition cannot find the opposite and entrapped between the right, the center, and the left of matters...?"

- - anonymity

[1:47 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Have they!?

[1:49 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: It is so easy to adjust them...

[1:49 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Andrew just curious.

Previously you always have been supporting the government.

But recently, noticed that you are quite discontented.

Just curious is there something happen that make you unhappy?

[1:52 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: The ways of water!

"Water flows from the highlands to the lowlands. Water is soft (soft), and water can harden too (hard)! Get the combination of soft and hard right and you will understand the power of water!

- - anonymity

[1:54 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: I'm a fence sitter, neither here nor there depending on the issues

[1:54 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: "The pinnacle and the end game is TALENT identification and classification."

- - anonymity

[1:55 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: The bottom line is that we will never see 👀 a viable and capable opposition government!

[1:55 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I see.

Well we have high demand of a good government.

We should also apply the same standard to WP MPs and the other oppositions.

[1:55 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Opposition politicians have no calibre for cabinet positions!

[1:56 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: I have to agree. Certain PAP policies (okay a lot) irritates me, but when I see the bullcrap the WP comes up with, I end up on the fence.

[1:56 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: agree if we expect our govt to of certain std

[1:57 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: the same shld apply to the opposition

[1:57 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no concession

[1:57 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: fair grd

[1:57 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: to be fair - a lot of the PAP cabinet CMI also.

[1:57 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Which policies perhaps need to relook at?

[1:58 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: The lowest of opposition MP cannot match those ruing party MP who don't make it to cabinet positions!

[1:58 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: CECA, Car light, FT, HDB, PR. off the top of my head.

[1:58 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I read in a news somewhere whereby Pritam Singh say voters expect higher standard from PAP candidates, but correspondingly WP candidates can be lower (to that effect) - which I try to search for this news snippet I read but I lost it ----- I cannot accept this argument.

2. Pritam Singh say he don't expect a revolution to replace the whole goverment, but he want more seats up to 1/3 of the Parliament.

3. If more and more WP candidates of lower quallty is allow into Parliament and less and less higher PAP quality candidates enter the Parliament - then our standard of governance drops, policies that will benefit Singaporeans will also of lower quality.

4. Hence I expect opposition, WP candidates must be of similar quality of those in PAP if not better.

As voters, we cannot demand less.

Because accepting lower qualtiy candidates will means --- the Singapore population as a whole will suffer - in the event one day, we see a fluke election outcome - whereby the less qualified opposition take over the government.

What will become of Singapore?

Our lives, livelihood, our wealth, our property, our future generations - will be "colder than water".

[1:58 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: it boils to the point that real leaders or men and women of capabilties are gone

[1:58 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Ah Heng, Andrew are two potentials!

Thanks.

[1:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i can only go there and clean table and chairs niah

[1:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Recently about the most irritating is the NEA's push to force the cost of carbon neutrality down onto the consumers

[1:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and i dun speak english well, already minus one by oppo

[1:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: in this current inflationary climate, it's criminal

[1:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: I can only go there to be amused!

[1:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[2:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Andrew, you are definitely better than the opposite members...

Thanks

[2:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Any alternate game plans?

[2:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: NMP Walter Woon I respect for having introduced the MPA.

[2:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: why you asking me? I'm not being paid a million to solve this

[2:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: lol

[2:01 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Mandarin plus a bit of hokkien...

The idea is you are as good as others, given the pedestal to stand and talk!

Thanks.

[2:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hahah u mai suan .. parliment is a holy place

[2:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: 1) the plastic bag thing is nonsense.

Plastic bags in SG's context are more environmentally friendly than the alternative.

NEA's policies writ large seems to be wholesale lifted from AMDK countries and cut and pasted into SG without consideration for localization

[2:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: lay men sten din will get burn one

[2:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i mean step in

[2:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: bloody Amy Khor is a malaysian born prata woman, flipping on things she said in the past

[2:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree!

[2:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i dun wan to be burnt by the flames of righteous

[2:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: The older a person is regardless of age or race...this person will bring values and Valuables onto the table!

More rooted and relevant to local and or region!

[2:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Not surprising!

[2:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree

[2:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ahh this must be hear by the MOM  and the many companies

[2:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

As the debate on the President's Address wrapped up in Parliament last week, Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong stressed that there is no place for populism and political opportunism in Singapore, citing the division and polarisation that has taken root in developed democracies abroad. 

“If you look at many of these countries, populism has taken root and populism has damaged greatly their societies, divided and polarised their people,” he said, explaining that populism is politics that distorts the facts for political advantage and will damage Singapore in the long term.

💬 What are your views on the points raised during the debates on the President's Address? How can we continue to uphold values like participation, integrity and inclusivity …

[2:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: WHEN a person who has good character and pleasant personality and most importantly, selfless and humble is the archetype to represent a community aka MP!

[2:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: in fact if gvt really care .. is the grassroots that have to be truthful

[2:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Pass from one ear in to another out only!

[2:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: not like sheeps

[2:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Don't get me started on the kampungs of Spandex Kamikaze cyclists empowered by LTA.

[2:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: road hogging retards

[2:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: bloody grass roots all like sheeps only

[2:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: NEA and LTA issues.

Thanks

[2:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: up stairs say yes all will yes yes yes

[2:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: there are a few grassroots i know who had been vocal but was deem as opposition in the end they gave up

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but neither did they join opposition

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: North Korea?

"One dictates and the bottom is full of followers...so what is above this dictator?"

- - anonymity

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Only if you follow blindly are you accepted!

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: that's how we kill those who have the passion to service not for fame nor benefits

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: tell me about that

[2:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: 😳😄🤷‍♂️

[2:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: as in yeah .. i agree hahahahaa

[2:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: anyway sian lah talk here talk there same topic

[2:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dog bite dog world

[2:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Many Singaporeans are pragmatic and realistic people! At least 50% of them behave like this.

Does  that means they ignore and maybe they are well aware of what politics are in their favor or nothing?

[2:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: I would'nt say gone. I'll go they have no incentive to join politics given the current system

1) look at Tik Tok's CEO. Singaporen. Hwa Chong Boy.

2) Look at Shanmugam. Brilliant legal mind. Look at his Replacement in the wings - ET - whom the legal society laughs at.

It's not we don't have talent. Talent seems uninterested in joining politics.

[2:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Don't forget Tharman but ignore IR!

[2:14 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Example too obvious =) everyone loves tharman

[2:14 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[2:15 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Another populist policy proposed by WP - is to push for "minimum wages" across the board.

2. As we all know, different industries have different demand for workers' skills and wage benchmark.

3. Proposing a "minimum wages" across the board without productivity growth - is too simplisitc by blunting our wage competitiveness vis-a-vis that of our neighbouring countries which have a lower wage base.

This will in effect make our business uncompetitive and our worker uncompetitive - and push business out of Singapore.

4. Hence another easy way out, a populist policy to solve our wage problem for our workers - by WP (again reflecting the poor quality of the WP candidates).

5. PWM (Progressive Wage Model) - a benchmark wage based on the respective industries pegged to productivity outcomes and stepped progression --- is a better model to help our local workers increase their wage income - and at the same time ensure our business maintain its competitiveness due to higher productivity - to ensure the wage cost are keep in check.

For eg. without automation, workers will have lower productivity such as a food assistant can only make let say 100 popiah a day.

But with automation that can make popiah 1000 a day in which the food assistant is trained to operate - than production increase 10 times - which justigy a higher pay - as business no need to employ 10 workers to produce 1000 popiah a day. 

1 worker who can operate the machine will do.

6. Hence PAP candidates display a higher quality in policy making - and make Singapore business and workers enjoy higher income - as compared to WP candidates that will drive business cost up, make our workers uncompetitive - and make Singapore worst off.

[2:28 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Another populist policy - is to urge government to release data in Parliament.

2. I support the releasing of data that will benefit Singapore as a whole - but will not lead to compromising our National Security - whereby bad actors or foreigners can exploit to make us worst off, or penetrate our security causing harm to Singaporeans.

3. Sometimes, oppositions and public will perceive as some common sense data are harmless --- and we want it out of curiousity or we want the data to advance our personal agenda.

But by releasing such data ---- may in fact harm us as a whole.

4. a. To quote an example, some of our Sovereign Funds and financial reserves cannot be made public, because foreign financial bad actors with massive monetary hoard could use such financial data to attack our currency - and make massive financial benefits at our expense.

In one of the Asia Financial crisis, a few foreign financial speculators launch a coordinated systematic attack on Asian currency system causing many SE Asia countries to fall one by one - Thailand, Indoneisa, Malaysia etc - Singapore also affected though with lesser extent due to our strong financial reserves to stop the attack.

Malaysia even have to introduce "capital control" to stop the financial outflow.

b. In one most recent foreign events, a US airman leak of data - put Ukraine in a very dire situation by releasing data that their air defense missiles are running out - that lead Russia to do many aerial bombing knowing that Ukraine has run out of air defense missiles.

5. Hence, in the absence of knowledge how releasing of data will harm our National Interest and everyone of us -- don't get upset and be rile by WP and opposition of demanding data to be frivolously release - because data can kill us more than anything else.

[2:32 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: As mentioned by a previous gic head many years ago, outsiders can manipulate the basket of currency our reserve are made of so disclosure is out of the question!

[2:35 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes.

That's why be careful of what WP say.

Scrutinized it 360 degrees and exposed their pitfalls.

If we don't WP will harm us more than it helps us.

That's why I feel very annoyed that voters should accept a lower quality candidates as MP - for opposition like WP - because their ideas will sink Singapore.

[2:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: As WP LTK once said, I have no interest in a cabinet position but only to act as a check and balance.  This kind we don't need for our country!

[2:40 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

A poor quality candidates check and balance - serve very little purpose except to irritate our government and play to the gallery to rile the voters.

I rather an oppositions to be of higher quality and can propose alternative solutions that make policy making better to serve our population.

Check and balance is too low a standard

[2:40 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Shadow government

[2:41 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As per what WP offer in the parliament today.

I am not impressed.

[2:50 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Another populist and simplistic ideas push by WP is to propose "redundancy insurance" as a compassionate policy to help retrenched workers.

2. The policy on paper looks good - but has anyone study the implications?

3. Pritam Singh mention that our Government is also looking into it.

However, in the absence of details, and in the absence of how to address the pitfalls of a redundancy insurance - I will not support it or rule it out as of now.

4. But I will want to point out the pitfalls of a "redundancy insurance" based on WP's proposal :-

a. Currently business and individual workers already have to set aside certain percentage of their salary to be put in CPF.

How are redundancy insurance to be financed by business and individual workers?

Are the business and workers to further set aside additional salaries to purchase the redundancy insurance on top of the contribution to CPF?

Then how much take home pay left for individual workers?

Then does it means that business will factor in redundancy insurance cost by lowering salary paid to workers to keep its business cost low?

b. Assuming a retrenched worker receive monthly redundancy payout - how long will it last.

If it last for years, it will reduce the worker's incentive to look for jobs, get themselves train to look for jobs - as looking for jobs, get trained is tough - and with redundancy payout --- it will blunt people's motivation to look for jobs --- and Singapore business and economy will be greatly impacted.

[2:56 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

5. In fact, I feel that Government implementing "Train and Placement" programme - to ensure retrenched workers get up to date skillsets that business want and make placement to jobs by participating companies make more sense.

Because it will ensure retrenched workers get the most direct help in skill training and get a job immediately upon completion of training.

6. Also, during the duration of training, government provide training allowance to the trainees, so that they will have monthly allowance to feed themselves and their familites while receiving training.

7. Once they secured a job after training through placement, virtually they will earn salaries --- and hence there is no need for "redundancy insurance" - that will put additional burden on business in terms of business cost and additional burden on individual workers to set aside additional salary to pay redundancy insurance premium - and have lesser take home pay.

Also redundancy payout will not blunt workers motivation to look for jobs after retrenchment.

[2:57 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: PWM is the way forward

[2:58 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So honestly do you feel WP do a good check and balance job in parliament?

I don't feel so.

I am not impressed.

Their alternative proposal are half baked and cannot stand up to scrutiny.

[2:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: No substance!

[3:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: The sad thing is that they will probably hold on to SengKang. 

Supposedly very strong support base

[3:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: I am hoping for it to be a one time win only!?

[3:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Hoping for the same. But seems unlikely. Much unhappiness on the ground.

[3:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: actually no need to scrutinize  if a low level education person like me can see the crack

[3:06 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Why unhappy, over what?

[3:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Let's laugh...lol... wait

[3:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: credit due when the old oppos guard i will say yes they ask the govt good question till well sux thumb

[3:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/jhNrkZll-_c

[3:07 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Usual stuff. GST. Plastic bags. CECA. COE. FTs. The usual issues in edmw.

[3:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but now these groups of is just echoing what the ground people feel but just echo solution is like very high level...

[3:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: Another lol... wait

[3:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/kfLqrbER9Q4

[3:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: TOC is is like talkingcock.com reincarnated.....

[3:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: seng kang people are blind sad to say espically when is suppose to be an estate of younger generation

[3:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: very sad

[3:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: on a fair scale some pap candidate are not worth to be in their estate also

[3:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so best is break up GRC

[3:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: let all man of worthy fight 1:1

[3:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: The woke issues resonate more strongly with the SK peops.

[3:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree!

[3:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[3:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree

[3:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: WP playing that woke game well.

[3:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: den we will know who is really doing the job

[3:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: all appointment holder have and must remember their mthly allowance each cents is from the public

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and each same is toil with blood and sweat

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: sorry each cent

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Ruling party scratching their heads to estimate the odds in their favour!

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is not only ruling party

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: it includes the oppo too

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: I'll like to ask something. Ivan Lim.

What do you all think of him as a candidate? Heard he's running again

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Waste of time to consider them!

[3:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: not just walk around the grond, paste on face book show how hard working by walking or selling news paper

[3:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: disclaimer = I know him personally

[3:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: well if he is running put him in single estate and fight man to man

[3:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun ride on grc

[3:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Will full time MP work in anyone favour!?

[3:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: full time mp should not have any public interest as share holder or board of directors

[3:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: one is paid to service the public and community not here 20% there 10% there another 20% etc

[3:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree

[3:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[3:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: else dun take so much allowance

[3:14 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Think he might die even if fighting against the sengkang Raeesah Khan. He got slimed badly.

[3:14 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree

[3:14 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: take a nominal fee of $! dollar will do i dun feel so pain

[3:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i know some of the public idea is i dun care who is good or bad as long as there is some one to check on the ruling party

[3:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: ehh like that might as well put wang le inside

[3:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: he also can do the check

[3:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and he sure voice out for the public no need oppo

[3:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is such mentally of the public that affect productive discussion in the session but the same goes for current govt also

[3:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: 2 sides have these kind of funny people also

[3:19 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to be a member of parliament there must be some caliber for for some reason the oppo suddenly slide now and is like some picky person nib picking at small things instead of the bigger picture

[3:19 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and keep seeking to win attention

[3:22 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I have a strange feeling that GE may come sooner than 2050 for 2 reasons:-

a. The PM is growing older 71 years old already and will want the younger DPM to take the helm earlier.

b. The external factors could suddenly turn catastrophic

eg. Russia Ukraine war turn very nasty and pull in NATO.

China and Taiwan suddenly fight.

Global supply chain severely disrupted.

$3 trillion trade route cut.

$60 trillion economies - China, EU and US lock in war.

2. Hence we will need all the best brains in the government.

We cannot have lower quality candidates in the parliament.

We cannot have WP or oppositions in parliament of lower quality to do the check and balance.

We need top brains to tie us through a very challenging time.

[3:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: now that u bring this up

[3:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: oversea news paper already speculating we going for early poll

[3:24 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Taiwan foreign minister warns of conflict with China in 2027.                                           US intelligence believes that Xi Jinping, China’s leader, has ordered the country’s military to be ready by 2027 to annex Taiwan.                                                                  https://sg.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-conflict-072111083.html

[3:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +KL: Maybe I raise one small question in event if we recycle plastic bottle collect sgd 0.10 (32 Sen) will all other country ppl bring plastic containers to sg to recycle? Esp our neighbours :) wanting to reduce plastic and in the end increase ? Cos their oil is subsidised

[3:24 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Is Singapore heading to the polls this year, as ‘electoral drums start beating’?

An election is not due until 2025, but recent speeches by PM Lee Hsien Loong and his designated successor Lawrence Wong hint at an earlier vote.

Against a backdrop of global troubles and internal issues, a decisive win in a snap vote would give Wong an ideal start as the nation’s fourth premier, observers say 

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnNjbXAuY29tL3dlZWstYXNpYS9wb2xpdGljcy9hcnRpY2xlLzMyMTc5MzIvc2luZ2Fwb3JlLWhlYWRpbmctcG9sbHMteWVhci1lbGVjdG9yYWwtZHJ1bXMtc3RhcnQtYmVhdGluZ9IBcmh0dHBzOi8vYW1wLnNjbXAuY29tL3dlZWstYXNpYS9wb2xpdGljcy9hcnRpY2xlLzMyMTc5MzIvc2luZ2Fwb3JlLWhlYWRpbmctcG9sbHMteWVhci1lbGVjdG9yYWwtZHJ1bXMtc3RhcnQtYmVhdGluZw?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

[3:27 pm, 24/04/2023] +YT: Can't read.  Pay wall.

[3:28 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: PM Lee Hsien Loong and DPM Lawrence Wong have recently urged citizens to continue to give the PAP broad support. Photo: EPA-EFE

Politics

Is Singapore heading to the polls this year, as ‘electoral drums start beating’?

An election is not due until 2025, but recent speeches by PM Lee Hsien Loong and his designated successor Lawrence Wong hint at an earlier vote

Against a backdrop of global troubles and internal issues, a decisive win in a snap vote would give Wong an ideal start as the nation’s fourth premier, observers say

Topic | Singapore

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Kimberly Lim

Kimberly Lim

Published: 9:30am, 23 Apr, 2023

Singapore’s ruling People’s Action Party (PAP) has been strengthening its me…

[3:28 pm, 24/04/2023] +TD: Here you go

[4:02 pm, 24/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

As the debate on the President's Address wrapped up in Parliament last week, Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong stressed that there is no place for populism and political opportunism in Singapore, citing the division and polarisation that has taken root in developed democracies abroad. 

“If you look at many of these countries, populism has taken root and populism has damaged greatly their societies, divided and polarised their people,” he said, explaining that populism is politics that distorts the facts for political advantage and will damage Singapore in the long term.

💬 What are your views on the points raised during the debates on the President's Address? How can we continue to uphold values like participation, integrity and inclusivity …

[4:30 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: https://theindependent.sg/netizens-react-to-edwin-tong-saying-significant-proportion-of-singaporeans-throughout-our-history-didnt-speak-english-well/

[4:34 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

4 natural languages is our working languages.

English is one of them.

It is in the constitution.

The netizens don't understand LKY's intent when he push English as a working language.

But he draft the Constitution to ensure our social and racial mix are intact. 

Hence the 4 natural languages in the constitution.

[4:35 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

English is needed to learn Western technology.

Now many advanced technology are coming out from China.

[4:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Will changing the constitution provide some indicator to fdi? 🤔

[4:38 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

What is fdi?

[4:39 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Foreign direct investment 🙏

[4:39 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Changing constitution to English only means - all our racial mix is mess up.

Angmoh and English speaking people take over.

[4:40 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No more 4 races.

[4:41 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Are we going to turn away European and non English speaking investors? That will affect the financial and properties industries?

[4:42 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No we welcome all.

4 natural languages in our constitution put us in good stead.

[4:43 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

We welcome western people as well.

[4:45 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Great. Loosing the connectivity with Asia/Europe financial hub (Tokyo, Hong kong, Frankfurt - some talent may be speaking English) might be a risk.

[4:47 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Zurich continues with an issue; their non English speaking talent may be relocating.

[4:48 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Lesson for us!?

[4:50 pm, 24/04/2023] +~L: Hmm, Caucasian currently just few % of the population, compared to over 70% Chinese descent. Does that mean Chinese have taken over?

[4:51 pm, 24/04/2023] +~L: I think you might mean a better balance between 4 races, which is currently:

Although Malays are recognised as the indigenous community,[3][4][5][6] 75.9% of the population are ethnic Chinese, with ethnic Malays and Indians comprising 15.0% and 7.5% respectively. Together, the three largest ethnic groups comprise 98.4% of the citizen population.[7] The remaining 1.6% comprises members of "Other" races, which comprises largely Eurasians. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore

[4:52 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes.

This is what I mean.

[4:56 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: The wipo 2021 key number on page #7 look like not all are from English speaking western country. There are non English speaking western countries, right?

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo-pub-941-2022-en-world-intellectual-property-indicators-2022.pdf

[4:59 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why I say:-

1. Conversation English for them (not the test type).

2. Spouse optional.

3. Their children will be conversant in both English and 2nd language.

We won't lose alot of integration because they also join RC activities as volunteers.

They can integrate very well.

[5:00 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our country will not lose out on integration and use of English language as working language.

At the same time, we can ensure the balance of social and racial mix - without making English compulsory for citizenship.

[5:01 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: In the competitive world, the current setup is our strength. Why for we to destroy our strength for something? which I don't understand what the ultimate aim is?

[5:01 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Point 2 for me is to be as Point one.

As for integration by way of involvement RC activities, do we have any statistics !?

[5:02 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I don't have.

But are we better integrated with the current new citizens?

I don't find any integration gaps with the new citizens.

I feel they are like one of us.

[5:03 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: The topic of populism, is the English test considered one of these? Is there any enlighten please 🙏

[5:04 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: I don't see any integration at grassroots level so not one of us.

[5:08 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: I thought we were open societies that welcomed foreigners. Am I wrong in this assumption, or do we only welcome English speaking foreigners to contribute to our nation? Please enlighten me 🙏

[5:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no lah

[5:09 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: people are asking for NEW CITIZENS they must undergo a english test to ensure they can comms in singapore

[5:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but the issue on the flip side is this more impt compare to the ability to integrate ?

[5:10 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is like as if our forms of application is not in english

[5:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and what makes whoever feels english test is a must that after this test they will integrate well to be new citizens?

[5:11 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[5:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: 🤷‍♂️

[5:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i think danny got a list of explanation listed out already which is going to be more of the negative rather den positive

[5:12 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: also what if i die die dun wan speak english even i am local

[5:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so will i be discriminate also

[5:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: as far as i am concern i see singapore english as 1 of the platform for communication while most of teh time we comms in SINGLISH

[5:13 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Eg. In my areas living in HDB

1. I have a China national mother and an American kid.

2. An Indonesian speaking family who speak Bahasa Indonesia very well.

3. An Indian family from India.

4. A Filipino family.

5. A China national family.

They integrate very well with the neighborhood and eat local food.

We exchange greetings when we meet.

Some speak English, some mandarin, some Malays, or we just exchange greetings saying hello.

No Integration gap.

I just feel they are one of us.

As they stay in HDB, I presume they are either new citizens or PRs.

[5:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: many of us dun comms in Q

[5:14 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: i think they wan people to speak Queens English hahahaha

[5:15 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And their children wear our SAF uniform.

They serve NS.

[5:16 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Ño

[5:16 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[5:16 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Great

[5:16 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: I saw this extraction from the cna news articles shared in this chat:

“In his speech, the opposition leader spoke about foreign spouses who may have difficulty with an English-language requirement in citizenship or PR applications. 

He pointed out that the Workers’ Party’s 2020 manifesto called for the “fast-track naturalisation” of foreign spouses on long-term visit passes, subject to conditions such as having at least one Singaporean child.

An English requirement for foreign spouses could be one of the criteria for fast-tracking such applications, he suggested.”

The concern is “foreign spouses having difficulty in English difficulties..... “ is the proposal asking the talent to break off with her/his family before applying for citizenship/ PR? Is this proposal in the national interest? I don't understand. 🤷‍♂️

[5:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: what i dun understand is foreign spouses only

[5:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: what about family that migrate here as a whole

[5:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: frankly whatever thinks oppo say dun waste time reading too much

[5:17 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: they are seriously a waste of time now

[5:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: there are better things to focus on

[5:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Based on preliminary pro/con analysis, it looks like the impact of the action is significant

[5:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: hurh u mean if cannot comms in english is a big issue

[5:18 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is there no other lang

[5:19 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: those that kick up a fuss is self righteous local

[5:19 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and pardon me ahh their bloody ancestor also cannot speak english that time can can one chicken and one duck still comms with angmo and other races

[5:19 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if really want to put it more crude

[5:20 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no one teach these people who are self righteous to have baby but they still can find a way to make babies so why not in everyday life matters

[5:21 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: article  12 of the Singapore constitution protects from discrimination....?

[5:22 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: small matter make a bukit timah looks like K2

[5:22 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Has it been applied in court!?

[5:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: A real kampong environment, promoting this kampong spirit is 👍🙏

[5:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Gotong royong is long dead!

[5:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: now got say hello and bye very lucky already

[5:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: say more ppl say u busy body hahahaha

[5:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yup

[5:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Is it focused on solo application, and the rest don't come to apply?

[5:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: 😄🤷‍♂️

[5:24 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: grassroots also no ask and talk so much u talk so much for what people think

[5:25 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: actually that motion seems to target more of one nationality

[5:25 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if i may suggest

[5:25 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: and without saying it tends to point to that country that starts with C

[5:26 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Show face closer to election!

[5:26 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: I don't know. Is there any case of discrimination due to non English speaking? Kindly please share 🙏

[5:26 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: because besides that country and J whicih other country cannot speak english (minus the Afrika continent)

[5:26 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: o the 4 year see one time  season is here again to some hahahaha

[5:27 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: South America!?

[5:27 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: there is latino i think spanish

[5:27 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Yes

[5:28 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: but more or less they still speak abit of english

[5:28 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so near to US

[5:28 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Why a good cooperation behavior among neighborhoods no longer exists? Is it because we don't all speak English?

[5:29 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: age of change (some one mentioned earlier)

[5:29 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: people likes their privacy

[5:30 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: some are unknown to the new culture thus rather keep close to their own kind (new citizens)

[5:30 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: It looks like the English language is not the primary root cause of integration. It sounds like because most of us are busy. Isn't it?

[5:30 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: just assumptions

[5:31 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: If this is true, is this motion in the national interest?

[5:32 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Mexico

[5:33 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Korea, Taiwan, Switzerland, French, Germany, Russia, and many countries in the African and South American continents?

[5:34 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: so having listed so many we are in the right direction?

[5:34 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: to make those who wants to be here or even invest here to take an english test ?

[5:34 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: when actually we have 4 offical lang?

[5:35 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: I was puzzled. What precisely is the motion trying to achieve if it considers from national interest?

[5:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: no national interest

[5:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: is more of comms skill

[5:37 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: as i see it

[5:38 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: if talking about national level then we will loose out more if msia really draw out a better investment plans similar to thailand retirement plan

[5:44 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: “Another potential flashpoint Mr Singh cited: the growth of family offices and the inflow of foreign wealth here.

He noted that there are murmurings of discontent among Singaporeans who see foreigners engage in a buying spree of properties.” 

What type of policy is going to propose for the growth of the family office with new data? The current situation seems like welcomes them as Singapore is one of the prominent financial hub. The current government policy looks to be running smoothly, and is the new proposal to divert the ultra rich to other country and stop the development here? I am puzzle.. 😱

[5:44 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Likewise

[5:54 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: ICA relooking approach to system upgrade - preschedule implementation usually will not run during office hours or peak hours, and it is generally done by batch. Not knowing what is happening on site/offsite that day that caused glitch. 🤷‍♂️

[6:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: The FOI act in the USA seems like it covered more than national security and defence......

The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) gives any person the right to request access to records of the Executive Branch of the United States Government. The records requested must be disclosed unless they are protected by one or more of the exempt categories of information found in the FOIA. Records that, generally, may be protected from disclosure are: Properly classified material; limited kinds of purely internal matters; matters exempt from disclosure by other statutes; trade secrets or commercial or financial information obtained from a person and privileged or confidential; internal agency communications that represent the deliberative, pre- decisional process, attorney work product, or attorney-client records; information that would be a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy; law enforcement records to the extent that one of six specific harms could result from disclosure; bank examination records; and oil well and similar information.

[6:05 pm, 24/04/2023] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

As the debate on the President's Address wrapped up in Parliament last week, Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong stressed that there is no place for populism and political opportunism in Singapore, citing the division and polarisation that has taken root in developed democracies abroad. 

“If you look at many of these countries, populism has taken root and populism has damaged greatly their societies, divided and polarised their people,” he said, explaining that populism is politics that distorts the facts for political advantage and will damage Singapore in the long term.

💬 What are your views on the points raised during the debates on the President's Address? How can we continue to uphold values like participation, integrity and inclusivity in our political process?

Key takeaways from the debates are as follows:

📌 No place for populism, political opportunism in S’pore

Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong stressed that the Government rejects populism and upholds honesty and integrity in policymaking, adding that the Government and the Opposition should call each other out if either should fall short of these standards.

Earlier on Monday, DPM Wong had called on the opposition to offer a serious alternative agenda and be upfront about the trade-offs, instead of putting forth opportunistic or populist ideas that chip away at trust in the Government. 

Mr Singh agreed with DPM Wong that calling each other out ought to work both ways, but noted that variations of the Worker's Party's policies - such as anti-discrimination legislation, minimum wage and redundancy insurance - were being considered by the Government.

📌 English proficiency valued but it should not be sole criterion for new citizenship applications

“The knowledge of English at the working level, while helpful, should not be a defining or indeed a limiting factor, which might happen if you introduce it as a test, as a single point test,” Minister for Culture, Community and Youth Edwin Tong said. The minister also said that an English test may not be the best marker of an applicant’s ability to integrate in Singapore.

He pointed to the country’s immigration framework, which was “tightened significantly in 2009”, that considers a broader range of factors, including family ties to Singapore, whether the applicant has studied here or has done National Service. These other factors would be “equally, if not perhaps in some cases, more effective” as a marker of integration.  

Mr Tong noted that the Constitution currently states that one of the markers for naturalisation is working knowledge of any of the four official languages.

📌 Being more open with data

The Government should become more open to releasing data, and not be dismissive or “breezily” use national security or sensitivity as reasons for withholding information without good reason, said Leader of the Opposition Mr Pritam Singh.

In moving this motion on the debate on the President’s Address, Mr Murali Pillai (Bukit Batok) had said that the “nature of the electorate is changing and today, a new generation is emerging”.

Mr Singh said Singaporeans seek a fairer, more inclusive and more caring society, and greater openness with sharing information will be fundamental to a refreshed social compact.

👉 https://str.sg/i4Fc

👉 https://str.sg/i4yP

👉 https://str.sg/i4Fk

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/english-test-new-citizens-pr-applications-pritam-singh-edwin-tong-3436806

[6:13 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: in California, the shop only accepts these bottle with California Redemption Value bottle for recycling.

[6:20 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This family offices bring in money, create wealth for banks to manage, create jobs.

If they don't come we are in deep trouble.

[6:22 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

In summary, if WP is our current government implementing their policies - I think Singapore will have belly up.

[6:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Don't let it happen!

[6:23 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Need the voters support.

Our coming years is very treacherous.

[6:23 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Agree

[6:31 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Isn't data available in parliament reports, statistics Singapore, respective agencies, and publicly available sources? 🤔

[6:34 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: It may also affect the global financial center index, ultimately costing our jobs.. Hence I don't understand why real data on it is needed?

[6:35 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why data only offer need to know basis.

Any unnecessary data can do us more harm than good.

[6:41 pm, 24/04/2023] +KL: So u saw they invest in ? How do you know they create jobs ? Without data ?

[6:42 pm, 24/04/2023] +KL: I tiagong some bank can increase workload without head count

[6:43 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Salary increase!?

[6:43 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I am not saying no data needed.

I am saying data provided need to know basis.

And sufficient data for the public that won't harm our interest.

Not unfester information that harm us.

[6:43 pm, 24/04/2023] +KL: 2%

[6:43 pm, 24/04/2023] +Rama: Not worth!

[6:45 pm, 24/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[6:46 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Singapore to Create Up to 20,000 Finance Jobs in Five Years

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-15/singapore-to-create-up-to-20-000-finance-jobs-over-five-years

[6:47 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: From bloomberg, reported last year September.

[6:48 pm, 24/04/2023] +KL: How many will go to local ?

[6:49 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: Isn't it should go to local? Mom doing the quality check on foreigners if needed, right?

[6:52 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: There are jobs that can be outsourced offsite... 

If the family office did not come to Singapore, there is no single penny locals can earn from various support works, I guess.

[6:55 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: There are 8 competitors of wealth management centers against Singapore in this world

[6:59 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That is why Pritam Singh WP cannot make it.

[6:59 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No strategic vision for Singapore

[6:59 pm, 24/04/2023] +SL: From a regulatory perspective, strict AML/KYC controls and suitability rules have levelled the playing field with other wealth management centres and have increased

the burden of onboarding new offshore clients. In addition, a shortage of qualified RMs with appropriate language and advisory skills has led to a talent war between global wealth managers, resulting in higher RM compensation as a proportion of total revenues compared to other WM centres.

Page 24...🙏

[7:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +Ah Heng: dun wwaste time on this guy and that hum guy

[7:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +Smiley face: 24 April, 2023

To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members 

"How to include, integrate and compact?"

Three levels of Policy Leaders (PL) :

Community

Regional

National 

The idea is to create an active platform to a two-way active engaging people, to trust one another, and the same time to co-create policies through meaningful contributions from the citizens point of views and the difficulties faced by the policymakers. 

Creating an ecosystem of clarity, trusting, divesity and responsible citizenry.

Citizens with policymakers via zoom or in person and or informal Whatsapp group chat. 

CPL

At the community level, policies related to the town and ground issues. It is a good platform for senior grassroots leaders and/or MP to be part of or …

[7:00 pm, 24/04/2023] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Very populist, appeal to voters only.

[7:00 pm, 24/04/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====