REACH 380 - What are your views on the level of support for nurses? What more can be done to ensure Singapore's healthcare system and healthcare workers are well-supported?
(SK)
01 Aug 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:46 am, 01/08/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Welcome back! ๐
⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰
House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:
1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views.
2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.
3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.
4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.
5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential.
Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms
We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.
Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.
The topic will be posted shortly.
Thank you
Megan ๐
[10:01 am, 01/08/2022] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
MOH announced on 31 July that more than 25,000 nurses serving in the public healthcare clusters will receive a special payment package of between 1.7 and 2.1 months of their base salary. Health Minister, Mr Ong Ye Kung, mentioned that nurses “are deserving of another payment” as the Covid-19 pandemic is still ongoing and remuneration must be addressed if Singapore is to keep building manpower in its healthcare sector - which it will need to do amid an ageing population and more international demand for qualified healthcare workers.
๐ฌ What are your views on the level of support for nurses? What more can be done to ensure Singapore's healthcare system and healthcare workers are well-supported?
Mr Ong also noted that the pandemic has increased demand for well-qualified healthcare workers in many countries who may see Singapore as “an attractive source for qualified manpower”.
He said more must be done to support nurses, including streamlining unnecessary administrative work, introducing technology and improving IT systems.
He added that Singapore must continue to recruit good foreign nurses, given its small population. Said Mr Ong: “We will continue to find ways to entrench the feeling amongst foreign nurses that they are an integral part of the Singapore healthcare family, and they can continue to develop their careers in Singapore.”
๐ Over 25,000 nurses in public healthcare clusters to get special payment package from Dec 1
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/more-than-25000-nurses-serving-in-public-health-care-clusters-to-receive-between-17-and-21-months-of-base-salary?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg
๐ Nurses to receive 'retention payment' to keep them in profession: Ong Ye Kung
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/nurses-to-receive-retention-payment-to-keep-them-in-the-profession-ong-ye-kung?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg
๐ Nurses to get additional payments in move to ensure healthcare jobs in Singapore remain attractive
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/nurses-enhanced-payment-package-salaries-healthcare-workforce-ong-ye-kung-moh-2844811?cid=telegram_cna_social_28112017_cna
----
[10:09 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Great move!
Nurse has been underpaid overwork for quite awhile. As compare to foreign counterpart they are well underpaid
[10:13 am, 01/08/2022] +Uncle Law: Monetary benefits is one thing. Some nurses, their passion is to serve in this industry, however due to the fluid demand and expectations, some unable to handle it.
Some perhaps choose to leave due to unable to balance family and work commitment.
Monetary rewards won't be sustainable in the long run, if system still continues the current way.
Perhaps the ministry can look into hiring support staffs for these nurses in the areas of administration or perhaps handling of patients.
[10:35 am, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Does this give better work life balance!?
[10:41 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Some jobs just don’t have this luxury
[10:41 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐
[10:41 am, 01/08/2022] +jimmy chew: For some
[10:42 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Unless we are prepared to pay even more for more staff headcount for better shift arrangements
[10:44 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: I think the daily work schedule can be looked into to provide more rest / break for the work teams.
Given that ther is always a labour crunch, regardless of sector, it wl take time for more staff to be recruited.
Meanwhile, ther needs to be a review of the internal workflow & employee benefits , to complement the monetary benefits being offered.
This wud be more sustenable than $$ rewards.
Can OYK set up an internal team to look into this ( review curr work schedules & recommend benefits in kind),
and ensure tt it's rolled out / executed fairly across the board for healthcare workers?
The team shd include key personnel fr the nursing team, operations & possibly even admin as schedules impact not only on those who work it, but also on those who have to plan , execute & run it.
๐
[10:47 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Of course, it goes without saying tt the opinions and suggestions of the workers - in this case - the nurses, shd be sought first.
[10:47 am, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: 1 August, 2022
Good morning everyone
"Who needs who most?"
- - annoymous
Shortages of Labor:
Regardless of what trades or professions, now is a crunch time for qualified workers to switch employer or to move overseas to start a fresh working environment, especially for singles workers.
For healthcare workers, the resignation and moving to another country to work is (will be) a common phenomena. Likewise for other trades, Spain is looking for Philipino domestic helps that have a minimum of 5 years working experience in Singapore and or Hong Kong. Previously, it was harder to access into Spain or some EU nations for these "homecare" jobs.
- - in progress - -
[10:52 am, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Workers want 4-day week in S'pore; some employers have started to offer this option
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/workers-want-4-day-week-in-spore-some-employers-have-started-to-offer-this-option.
What will be the impact and significance should a nation adopt a 4 days workweek...
[10:55 am, 01/08/2022] +Eunice Chia: for some jobs, we can learn to set OUTPUT KPIs -- work performance and salaries be outcome based.....
I recall reading about Sheraton Hotel in Singapore (i believe) -- their chamber maids are required to clean XX number of rooms to YY quality -- and once that is done, they can leave -- moving away from the 7 to 3 type of fixed shift work.
So i believe with some creativity/flexibility -- shorter working hours can be achieved.
[10:56 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Shift work is slightly different they usually work much short days… due to long working hours (12hours shift)
So on average they work 15 days for shift workers.
[10:56 am, 01/08/2022] +KSFoong: What is the agenda behind to push for 4 days work week? Not all works could have this luxuary! At this moment, if companies could manage their resources for 5 days properly, it is good enough. The issue is, many org are now under resourced. Or not optimized in their work areangement.
[10:56 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: The crunch of most shift workers are the shift work..
Similar to production workers… hence the shift allowance.
[10:58 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: 4 full productive working days… not easy lol…
Mindset have to be correct to adopt that
[11:07 am, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: What's up?
Frontline workers like police, nurses, cleaners, domestic helps, teachers and so on, these civil servants be granted 4 days work week? This assumption is where private sector workers enjoying the refreshed 4 days work week likewise for public servants while others work week unchange.
What will be the entire cost structure be, secondly assuming digitization will pick up all slacks to buffer any lost in time, service quality and productivity?
[11:26 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Not true.
I used to do shift work.
It is up to the company to define the hours duration.
In general, we can flw guideline of 8 hours per shift.
12 hours is "not standard" across the board.
[11:27 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Thus, if nurses r now working 12-hr shifts, then the first thing I wud look into is to shorten the shift hours to perhaps 10 ?
[11:27 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Yah there are also 8 hour shift
[11:27 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Those will work normal days
[11:31 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Sadly there is no down time.
Hence means someone within the group will have to cover the missing 2 hours.
Which is quite dynamic. Any similar industry that practice such handover?
[11:31 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Basically, shorter hours may mean more shifts, given tt ther are 24 hours in a day.
Ther r peaks and troughs throughout the day.
Wher ther is a peak, that is wher more workers r needed during tt block of hours.
Hence , it is up to the scheduler to plan the shifts in such a way as to hv overlap between shifts to cover the peak period.
Then go lean (less) on manpower off peak.
Since SG is so into tech, perhaps OYK can look into the use of robots / AI to help plug those gaps, and thus help manage the labour crunch?
[11:32 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: In oil and gas there are a team that is on standby days which get paid for being on standby. Any similar practice outside?
[11:33 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Gd idea ...
Hv a standby team.
[11:33 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: If the so called down time which have lower headcount during those down time.
[11:34 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: In restaurant, they work split shifts.
Rest in between peak hours.
[11:34 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: We have it for CERT team in case to fight fire or to take over shift when people is unable to make it like MC etc
[11:35 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: The rest time are not paid usually… ๐
[11:35 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: And with short time usually employee can’t do much… is employer benefit from those down time.. having to pay lesser for low peak time
[11:35 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Yup...
Rest time in btn not paid .
So far, I hv not heard anyone complain abt such a system.
๐
[11:35 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Cause no choice
[11:36 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Ya lor.
[11:36 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Not want
[11:37 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Hey, Ken,
Maybe u & me can offer consultancy service to OYK to help look into their scheduling, eh ?
Wat say you ? ๐
[11:37 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Haha… most company have planner for manpower… ๐คฃ
Headache job.. don’t want
[11:37 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: One day can change 5 to 10 times… try do at my side
[11:37 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐ฅฒ
[11:38 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Specially on days that are more Xiong we see more MC and urgent leave lol
[11:38 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: I know, right !
One MC and u won't hv time to eat the rest of the day!!
๐คฆ๐ผ♀️๐คฆ๐ผ♀️
[11:39 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: In this case, the planner needs to be more creative.
[11:40 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: I mean, to solve the nursing manpower issue.
[11:41 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: They wl nd to start w looking into wat processes need wat manpower at critical hours .. and work off tt ..
[11:42 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Cannot employ traditional forward thinking ..
[11:42 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: How creative also need relationship bah.. planner for manpower need soft and hard skill… unless company is top down if not planner is like shit job
[11:43 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Or power transfer for internal shift to make own judgment… which lose the weight on the planner. Just plan once then the internal settle
[11:43 am, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Automation alone cannot bring this down
[11:44 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Agree ...
[11:44 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Need to see Japan.. lol think they have tried some form to reduce further
[11:44 am, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Not across all industry
[11:44 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Was a army duty planner ๐ฅฒ
[11:44 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Life was tough..
[11:44 am, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Hope our government is doing this
[11:46 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: I am doing it for my company.. digital transformation
[11:46 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Doing AI judgment usually visual automation checking for some parts
[11:47 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Lol AI is a big word.. more like programming ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[11:47 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Like visual checks for gusset printing.. manual checking becomes more software assisted etc
[11:47 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: ๐ค soft touch, Ken.
Those days r over.
Sori to hear u had a hard time.
Me fr Retail industry.
Roster planning not my fav either.
But agree tt all types of skills r needes.
Esp in relationships ... Kena *@*@ by fellow colleagues is not a great feeling.
Planner is always misunderstood by the workers... Even when they're doing their best to "be fair" to everyone.
[11:48 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Okok.
Overstretch on my end ... ๐
[11:48 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Haha planner is the worst job… not treat like human..
everyone easy job, then try to twist you lol…
[11:49 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Need to use the planning as fair as possible then use it also like carrot and stick sometimes
[11:49 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[11:49 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Need to present in excel.. then put wish list ๐ headache
[11:49 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Just employ robots to fill in the gaps,
Like dispense medication at regular timings.
Req less manpower to supervise.
But it does help take some time off for nurses to attend to more critical needs of other patients.
[11:49 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Lucky I good with excel can automate a bit lol
[11:50 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: They are already doing in KKH
[11:50 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Auto dispenser
[11:50 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: A&E pharmacy can see
[11:51 am, 01/08/2022] +RH: Just using as example ...
Perhaps they hv robots in pipeline to do other functions ... Not yet deployed?
No time to google for wat's avail out ther ....
[11:51 am, 01/08/2022] +jimmy chew: Yeah a friend Went overseas to be trained use the planner tool. He shared you can't please everyone
[11:52 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Polyclinic we see them use bar code to stock for vaccine also…
So can reduce the need to stock take etc
[11:52 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: And auto check for vaccine expire and won’t dispense if expire
[11:52 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Reduce the nurse checking time
[11:53 am, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Haha.. when humans are involved…
[0:02 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: The coming years, the concept of "just in time" (JIT) perhaps will evolve into running out of time (abrupt & disrupt) and many "just in case" plannings for unforseen situations?
[0:05 pm, 01/08/2022] +RH: ... Interesting concept ๐ค
[0:05 pm, 01/08/2022] +RH: Aren't these alredi happening now ?
[0:08 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Wait.... Hi RH
[0:09 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Be more kiasu, forget 4-day work week - let's go for 3
https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/onmymind-be-more-kiasu-forget-4-day-work-week-lets-go-for-3
[0:14 pm, 01/08/2022] +RH: Hi ๐
[0:18 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Healthcare (competitive and combative) :
Targeted staffs from ICU, CCU, OT and cancer care nursing specialists are highly sort after by many nations to pump up their healthcare needs. Hopefully, through restructuring work loads, refining work incentives and attractive perks just to retain these valuable human assets from seeking employment in overseas!
[0:31 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Great
[0:32 pm, 01/08/2022] +jimmy chew: https://www.boredpanda.com/employee-quits-job-over-sandwich/?utm_source=com.google.android&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic
[0:33 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Think all levels are important
The lower skill ones can be majority foreigner as they can be easily acquired as compare to high level ones.
The level of money plus respect we give them are rather low as compare to others first class nations.
Many still can’t shake of the butt cleaning nurse, which they don’t just do that.
[0:33 pm, 01/08/2022] +jimmy chew: I understand from a friend from healthcare that she quit because of management
[0:34 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: With lower levels filled there will be more placement for specialise for local nurses to progress in turn earn a bit more
[0:34 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: An area that needs to be addressed as monetization for retention only goes so far!
[0:34 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Yup
[0:50 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/uGh_3enJlgA
[1:16 pm, 01/08/2022] +RH: Job prospects r another motivating factor for retention of workers.
If not, then work so hard for wat ? ๐
[1:44 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Two components, pay package and job satisfaction.
[1:53 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Respect also is key
[1:54 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Nursing is a risky, dirty, hard-work but noble job.
2. Nursing is risky - because like doctors they are frontline staff facing patients and expose to patients' secretion of saliva, nasal fluid, excretion, urine, body discharge and body contact --- which give rise to spread of bacteria, virus and disease.
3. Nursing is a dirty job - because they need to clean up patients' discharge and secretion.
4. Nursing is a hard-work job - as they need to physically attending to the patitents, assist them if they are bed-ridden, unable to walk alone, or use the toilets to clear their physiological needs.
5. But Nursing is a noble job - because nurses is part of the medical team that help to alleviate the sufferigns of patients.
6. With the poppulation aging, nursing role become increasingly important as more nurses will be needed as aging population will require more medical care than younger population.
7. And compounding the needs of nursing, covid pandemic, monkeypox and other medical needs - further add strain to our nursing demand.
8. Hence the retention payment to nurses come timely - as we are also facing competition from the private sector for nurses as well as overseas recruitment of nurses - as overseas countries are also short in supply for nurses due to the World pandemic.
Competitive pay will stem the temptation of nurses to quit - when the demand of the job is tough.
9. However, pay is only one part of the equation to retain and attract nurses to join the profession.
Other factors need to be in place to make nursing attractive - so that it will make our public healthcare sector able to attract, recruit, and retain nurses in the public healthcare sector.
Notably:-
a. Career path - there must be a clear and transparent career path, scholarship and progression for nurses to climb in the nursing profession - so that nurses feel that nursing is a professional job and not a high pay mundane jobs.
Other than patient care, nurses will be exposed to medical knowledge, administer medicine, surgical procedures and many other specialise medical/biological/psychological knowledge - that will make nursing interesting and diverse specialised path for progression.
This will be a good way to attract people to nursing - and prop up the image of nursing. As this "technical path" may excite nurses who are attracted to the "medical knowledge" and the professional image attached to it.
Also there should be a "management path" - whereby nurses who aspire to progress through the management pathway by managing a team of nurses - can pick this path.
b. Scholarship, continuing education - will be another means of attracting nurses to take up the nursing career - as there are recognition of nursing as a noble professional profession - that have good career progression and that entail saving lives.
c. Nurses are treated as partner of a medical team - and not merely helpers or assistants.
d. Administrative works should as far as possible be handled by another team of administrative staff instead of being done by nurses - so that nurses can concentrate on solely handling patient care, medical specialise works, administer of injection, medicine, take part in surgeries etc.
e. Digitalise operation, AI mundane tasks, robotise mundane works etc - to alleviate nurses from mundane works --- will also help to relieve nurses from more mundane, physical works - so that nurses can be more focused in patient care and medical works.
f. The challenges of recruiting, attracting and retaining nurses - will hence elevating the nursing role into a more professional medical role - while using digitalisation, automation, robotisation, AI and employing administrative staff - to handle the mundane, physically demanding work and administrative works.
[2:02 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: A valid medical necessarily profession
[2:04 pm, 01/08/2022] +Poh S. Lim: I am fully supportive of the government’s response. Healthcare worker were and are frontline people. The Covid19 pandemic only brought this to the fore as the need to battle the pandemic rested mainly on the labour and sacrifices of these heroes, not just here but everywhere around the world. I think they are deserving of this gesture that we, the public through government can show to them.
[2:04 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
There is a need to upgrade the image of nursing profession - as a vital part of the medical eco-system.
Only then it will be attractive for local and foreign talents to join the nursing job.
[2:05 pm, 01/08/2022] +Poh S. Lim: In my opinion there are two professions which is underrated but bear a significant impact to society: healthcare and education.
[2:06 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Money alone in whatever way or amount will not work alone without considering workload, support from management and peers. Dealing with difficult patients, family members, relatives without adequate support and understanding from hospital management will still drive some out of the profession.
[2:06 pm, 01/08/2022] +Poh S. Lim: Singapore’s move to appreciate these two professions is strategically forward looking and bodes well for our future
[2:07 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Education is another issue. Teaching staff on holiday don't always get to enjoy the holidays with having to multi task fir next semester.
[2:08 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: I hope sooner than later
[2:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: An excellent and robust healthcare system is important for any nation. One lesson learned from the covid pandemics is a country's abilities to scale up and master resources in extreme crunching times and desperate moments such as capability and capacity within one's healthcare system.
[2:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Yes
[2:12 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Mr Rama, how are you
[2:12 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Fine at the moment
[2:12 pm, 01/08/2022] +Poh S. Lim: Sooner is better
[2:13 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Call me Andrew by the way. Rama is my late father sir name.
[2:14 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew...
[2:14 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: ๐๐๐๐๐ค
[2:45 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: 1 August, 2022
"The Singapore Brandname and The Stepping Stone"
In the global arena , Singapore name itself carries a high marks for high quality outputs.
This case , whether is healthcare or homecare workers, when a new foreign nurse enters our hospital systems, he or she will graduate with a good record of competency ( 5 or more years of service) so much so that many nations are willing to hire them at premium salary!
What is it like working in Europe or Australian or New Zealand hospital likes? What are the attractions these countries could offer to qualified people beside renumerations? How's the weekends like in these countries? What's the after work hours relaxation likes? The summation of thsse tangibles and intangibles will be the decider for these skilled and efficient people a once in a lifetime chance of moving to anyone of the abovementioned country - perhaps what many would brand them as Ex-Singapore?
- - in progress - -
[3:02 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Competitive and Combative :
What if certain country offers a permanent or natural citizenship to targeted spectrum of talents? Let's say if one foreign talent worked for 10 years will be eligible to be considered for PR or more than 15 years of continuous staying and employed in the designated field of works shall qualify for full citizenship? These may be some of the perks, attractions and hopes for getting talents into one's country?
How about exceptional and rare talents seeking for PR? What the policymakers going to counter, to offer to her/him or wait and think or signed them in?
[3:51 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Chicken supply in Malaysia has stabilised, surplus can be exported: Agriculture minister
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/chicken-supply-malaysia-has-stablised-2849491?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_01082022_cna
[3:54 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well let them come.
We have more choices.
My favourite chicken rice stall increase their price - half chicken by $3 and whole chicken by $6.
I boycott eating chicken.
[4:01 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Experience and Learning Curve (Cost) :
Any medical system, the stakeholders especially for hospitalised patients, the delivery of medical cares must not be slacked simply it is about life and death!
The known fact of any process of manufacturings or services, the quality of the end products or services matter alot. A high quality and a high reliable product will yield many trophies of praises and the ultimate champion of brand!
There is no short cuts or fast methods in achieving the ultimate prize that is to drive the process to its excellence! How to achieve excellence in a product or service, it is the process of assuring quality control at each stage of a production or a process. Where are the vital checks and recheck using AI or heuristic?
Afterall, products or services will have it experience and learning curves, there is a price to pay for, everything! As for consumers (patients), how satisfied these products or services were?
"climbing Mt Faber versus climbing Mt Everest, the differences are stamina, skills and timing (lucky) ...?"
- - annoymous
[4:01 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Compete with Indonesia in time to come.
[4:02 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
More competition - lower price.
Good for consumers like us.
[4:06 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Wrong move by them๐คฃ
[4:08 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Their export ban backfire.
[4:09 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: They did to kill their pig farmers…
Didn’t think they will do for chicken ๐คฃ
[4:10 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Economic mismanagement.
[4:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Old saying, don't count the eggs before it hatch...
[4:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: They just forget we have Indonesia neighbours ๐
[4:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Indonesia would be super happy
[4:12 pm, 01/08/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why don't let monopoly behaviour dominate the market.
Always diversify to safeguard ourselves.
[4:16 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Covid-19 wave in S'pore likely to subside further this week, says Ong Ye Kung
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/covid-19-wave-likely-to-subside-further-this-week-says-ong-ye-kung
[4:23 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Regular Covid-19 booster shots could become the norm, says Ong Ye Kung
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/regular-covid-19-booster-shots-could-become-the-norm-says-ong-ye-kung
[4:25 pm, 01/08/2022] +65 9836 3112: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7zBRLAD-oA
[4:27 pm, 01/08/2022] +BL: Hopefully optional. I've had a booster and 6 months later got covid. It wasn't bad for me, so might not choose a booster. Others had it very bad so might be good for them. Seems like a very unpredictable virus!
[4:32 pm, 01/08/2022] +65 80321288: How long should one wait before getting a booster if Covid positive in early July?
[4:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors
Please be reminded to keep to the topic that is being discussed.
๐ฌ What are your views on the level of support for nurses? What more can be done to ensure Singapore's healthcare system and healthcare workers are well-supported?
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan ๐
[4:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: HSA approves Covid-19 AstraZeneca jab for people medically unsuitable for vaccination
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/hsa-approves-covid-19-astrazeneca-jab-for-people-with-compromised-immune-system
[4:41 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Possibly
[4:43 pm, 01/08/2022] +BL: very happy to see the support announced so far. I imagine it's a stressful job, so reduced hours per week, frequent vacation time and wellness programmes would be welcomed I'm sure.
[4:45 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Will this complement or destroy our human body natural immune system!?
[4:47 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Additional perks:
Annual leaves of up to 30 days depending of seniority and or years of service.
THRIPLE pay for public holidays.
Spouse and children subsidised medical services including hospitalisation.
Annual wage adjustment, special one-off and or NWC guidelines.
Air ticket to home country for every 4 years of service.
[4:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Midnite shift transport allowance.
[4:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐ ๐
[4:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: what's the flip side? the cost wil be passed down to the patients and we will see spiralling heathcare costs again?
if these benefits are to be given it shld be from the profits already generated by the hospitals and shld not be passed down to the patients under the pretext of increase in costs
[4:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Who pay ๐ ๐
[4:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Within reasonable not super peaks ๐
[4:50 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Cleaner also equally important.. should we give them similar perks?
[4:50 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: 5 days work, is it operational viable, going forward...
[4:50 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Landscape workers too
[4:52 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew and Ken, the entirety, the medical environment.... Doctor s too
[4:53 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: The whole kaleidoscope
[4:54 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Well defined, inclusively
[4:55 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: A to Z of every job in the entire medical community
[4:56 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: One year of completed service will yield one day of annual leaves.
[4:56 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐ don’t think is really fair
Perks small advantage I agree.. but their income come from
People as well..
So with all the perks are we prepare to pay 3 to 4 times the hospital bill?
[4:57 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: The law of additions...
[4:58 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: All perks comes from income, like google have so much perks purely due to their income is very high..
similar to oil and gas..
so in order to enjoy such benefits the end consumer has to pay
[4:58 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: When you pay peanuts, you may get....
[5:13 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Letters of commendation from patients or their family members will win monetary incentives...
[5:14 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Monkeys
[5:16 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Any thought on continuing process reengineering and redevelopment?
Nurses are critical to healthcare institutions; it is a good thing with steps taken to boost their morale and retain them. However, maintaining a high standard of service by keep increase the numbers of healthcare workers with the existing processes may not be sustainable and economical. Process reengineering might not come with the purchase of high-cost healthcare equipment or compete with developed countries that will pay higher salaries to attract them to work in their country.
[5:19 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: This is not medical service this is bribery ๐
If medical only based purely on incentive. Might as well don’t do
[5:20 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐คฆ♂️
[5:20 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi SL,
Always a need to check the process, simply work improvement.
[5:20 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Have you seen how the feedback structure in place in companies… they push for such recommendations only those who push have better service? ๐ฅฒ
[5:21 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: A clinical process that consists of 10 steps may only need 70% to complete. The remaining are noncritical steps that a well-defined process can handle with the support of appropriate systems. Imagine we are in a clinic. What do you think are duplicated efforts?
[5:24 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: From patients, though it might create situations whereby medical staffs pushing for positive appraisals from patients or family. It has to be a one way, verified by supervisor.
[5:25 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Check and balance is essential. Any thought about why every station needs a check and balance? Is the routine process unclear to the staff, or is it too complicated that staff cannot follow and hence influence the staff taking a shortcut, therefore need check and balance?
[5:26 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Hugh!?
[5:26 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: I don’t agree on overly incentive the medical staff will no long help out of professionalism.
It takes out the meaning of being in medical to help people not just for money. I don’t agree
[5:27 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Yes
[5:28 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Those people that work years without such issue…
Due to calling… we are here to help them make life easier, not make them bunch of money minded people.
[5:28 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: From a process optimization perspective, a complicated process, I guess, is not a good process, especially during emergency times.
[5:30 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: How about letter of complaint.... What's the deal...
[5:31 pm, 01/08/2022] +danielhl chua: Agree that our healthcarr workers are overworked and fatigue is dangerous especially when the things they do involved public healthcare.
Rem blunders like giving 5 pfitzer vaccination shots at 1 time. The pregnant lady who loses baby after 2hr wait at NUH. These are some the things that would not have happened if nurses are not understaffed and overworked. Monetary incentive will not have helped them.
Pls look into their workload and review accordingly. Is our healthcare system ready for another emergency? If SAF has a redcon system, what is our redcon system for our healthcare workers?
[5:32 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi SL,
Consequential and Complex game....
[5:32 pm, 01/08/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: I do not have any nurse acquaintances however in talking to my doctor friends I have the sense that they are suffering from covid fatigue. Perhaps we need to “stand down” some of the more tiring covid related procedures that nurses and doctors have. Ask them for what they think can be changed or stopped to improve working conditions and efficency.
[5:34 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Well said...
[5:34 pm, 01/08/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: why the emphasis only on the healthcare section. how about our education system? teachers who had to pivot during the covid years. they were equally under tremendous stress but dont recall seeing any incentives rendered to them? are they less important.
[5:35 pm, 01/08/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: even to day teachers are still pivoting btw online and in person classes. doing administrative roles and reporting that are not part of their main responsibility that is teaching
[5:35 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Minister Ong highlighted On that unnecessary administrative work is absolutely right. This is a pain area for healthcare workers, a low-hanging fruit that can be tackled and yield an extremely high return on efficiency.
An area of concern is, pls don't let the vendor of the IT system decide what a healthcare organization can use and how to use it.
[5:36 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Paper is required due to lapses ๐
I am from ISO background… it was there because in the past something happen over the years it adds up.
And to remove not so easy
[5:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +danielhl chua: Cos today's topic on healthcare~ We will talk about educators another day~ ๐
[5:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: no one talks about educators
[5:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Unless you found alternative to the paperwork. Cannot be remove cause no one will bear the responsibility if something happen due to the removal of the paperwork
[5:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I think healthcare workers are more afraid that the work risk - infected family members unnoticing
[5:38 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Not don’t but try to go within topic… teachers are well paid. But workload is crazy ๐
[5:38 pm, 01/08/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: educators received the incentives based on the norm Civil services bonus provided
[5:38 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I think today's topic is healthcare.. Teacher's topics maybe in future discussion
[5:39 pm, 01/08/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: then shld look at the pay package of healthcare workers too.. clinician nurses and doctors dont come cheap too
[5:39 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Err depends.. nurses and doctors for the hours they put in… a bit different.. cannot compare apple and oranges
[5:39 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: One take care of live their other educate life’s
[5:40 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: All jobs has its perks and down side.. you pick the job, knowing what shit you in.
[5:40 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Yea, control over control was added and resulted in more staff required to check the control staff that check the operation staff
[5:41 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Checklist will only increase ๐
Sad but true… I implement them easy.. but remove need higher management ๐
[5:42 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: With multiple approval and risk assessment๐คฃ
[5:42 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Hence I told my guys… do properly.. I don’t want to implement more stupid checklist for no reason
[5:42 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Thanks Ken, this bring up another crucial topic. The hospital leader, division leader, ward leader etc. what is their role? Int they run the hospital?
[5:43 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Why want to remove.. status quo nothing goes wrong lol…
Remove something goes wrong your fault
[5:43 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Pick your poison
[5:43 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I don't think John Hopkins hire a nurse to run the whole hospital but not the ward right?
[5:44 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Not easy to beat the system… culture is hard to break… hence legacy system is slower than startup cause they don’t have so many checklist
[5:45 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: They have too many checklist (baggage) to save guard
[5:45 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Agree
[5:46 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: I am the person to implement countermeasures… and easiest way is to add another point to the checklist..
no one can’t fault you..
for me I don’t add stupid checklist unless that’s the last choice
[5:46 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Sunshine Pooh,
Experienced public teachers turnover to become private tuitor.
Experienced public nurses turnover to become private nurses.
Perhaps is it the stress of work or unhappiness or other personal reasons of inconvenience that resulted in resignation of nurses or teachers? Its worth deeper thoughts and investigations too.
[5:46 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I agree that this happens not only in health care but in commercials. 6pm go home without anything happening the best.
[5:47 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Or I have no answer to that problem… and yes it works ๐คท๐ป♂️
People see problem solved ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[5:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Ken,
Perhaps. Just in case (JIC) approach.
[5:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Between these two, how much positivity has come about to reduce unnecessary admin work!?
[5:49 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: To remove someone have to passion with a group behind to support the change. To reduce unwanted or necessary paper work is hard. Cause is a cost centre.
Anyone know successful implementation to cut paperwork? I know companies that practice lean will have some form
[5:50 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: One concern to consider is the organization in terms of staff will become gigantic. Mgmt may choose to hire an outsourcer to fill the station as this will make the HR headcount look nicer. The quality will drop, and the SOP will not be able to control the quality of services on outsourced staff.
[5:51 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Regardless of how the contract signed
[5:51 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Nah not really a issue.. as long as auditor is strong…
Outsource staff are easier to push for change as a customer
[5:52 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: So depends on your downstream and the support of the outsource management
[5:52 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: I work with half my staff outsourced.
[5:52 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: It is harder to push change within own stake holder
[5:53 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Cutting paperwork may not be adopting lean practice, it maybe just a simple process optimization
[5:53 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Sad
[5:54 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Not so sure not in the structure want to learn but company not adopting so can’t learn much
[5:54 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: You are lucky ๐
[5:54 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Yes…. And lots of soft skill to build relationships
[5:54 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: I am paid to chit chat and small talks with people on the ground
[5:54 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐คฃ
[5:55 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: It takes hours… not easy…
And need attend all company dinners ๐ซ
[5:57 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Watch your physical and mental health
[5:58 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Covid so off 2 years
[5:58 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Going back soon
[5:59 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I think the original purpose of healthcare can help stakeholders continue brainstorming on how to help Singapore advance its healthcare system, level up the healthcare workers, and make Singapore a top brand in affordable healthcare with world-class healthcare workers. I strongly believe Salaries and profit is not the only way to achieve that.
[6:00 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Age has catch up meanwhile so take care
[6:00 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Agreed
[6:00 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Wow, pls always take care. ๐
[6:00 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Sense of purpose… is required
[6:01 pm, 01/08/2022] +Ken Loh: Lol seems like you guys know what I going through ๐
[6:01 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I firmly believe with a sense of purpose; anything is possible to achieve.
[6:02 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Couple of decades back, there were many researchers and scholars studied how SIA maintained its on board quality service and the larger corporation itself.
The consensus was one thing, that is managing quality and production process (service product) always demand a special pair of eyes and dedication to fine tune any lapses or duplicates of functions and or roles in an organisation - these studies was SIA! What laymen called it, taking ownership of things!
"how to solve and smoothen the bank tellers Q line, daily and peak days?"
- - annoymous
[6:03 pm, 01/08/2022] +Rama: Great
[6:06 pm, 01/08/2022] +danielhl chua: Again, I want to reiterate that we have seen how the healthcare sector plays a pivotal role during the Covid period and if Singapore foresee during another pandemic, our current healthcare system can sustain the rising numbers of patients. We need to practise a little bit of Kiasuism and think of the "what ifs" here. Now, I think we are not ready.
[6:06 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Management support is essential. The question is how to gain their support... The answer maybe is the achievement of industry KPI that better than others. This will set a precedent for others in the worldwide industry to benchmark this organization, the ROI, the profit, etc.
[6:08 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: For performance, pay and motivation (PPM. These three big challenges and variables, for so long, Operational management, Change theories and motivation gurus could not derive a perfect formula to tackle all these 3 biggie at a go....
[6:09 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: From the mgmt's perspective, they will have their priority.
[6:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: If you are an owner of 10 shops, nine shops making a profit, the only shop I help you run is in deficit with high staff costs. What will you think of me? ☺️
[6:11 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Rosabeth Moss Kanter book "World Class" circa 1993 is a good book to start reading and build that knowledge further
[6:12 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: Cut lost, this looser, 1
[6:14 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: What is taking ownership...
You run an entity regardless of size or form with passion and not a hobby...
[6:15 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Consider this as a charity, if you are a well respect donar. I guess you will change me if why my charity staff operation cost is so high.
[6:18 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: No charity, for entering a public toilet. You pay twenty cents as entrance fees....
Regardless one runs a company or a country.... Do you applies JIT, or JIC or just simply relax (JSR) .... Choice is yours...
[6:29 pm, 01/08/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/5uAYnSpp3hQ
[6:33 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Is it may be good to consider RN with the perspective of becoming a nursing practitioner that is in line with the western medical industry that maybe form part of the member of the Singapore medical council? This may boost the job career of nursing.
[6:37 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: I think I only saw “advanced practice nurse” under the NURSES AND MIDWIVES ACT 1999. Not sure this destination is same as the nurse practitioner in western medical industry
[6:43 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: NP, according to nurse.org.
A Nurse Practitioner (NP) is an Advanced Practice Registered Nurse (APRN) that has completed the required nurse practitioner schooling: either a Master's of Science in Nursing (MSN) or a Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP). They can serve as either a primary or specialty care provider.
[6:46 pm, 01/08/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
[6:50 pm, 01/08/2022] +SL: Island wide, some polyclinics have auto dispensers I think
[6:57 pm, 01/08/2022] +jimmy chew: should have a whistleblower hotline like they did for the construction industry and banks to to report irregularities of work and bad management and practices
[7:00 pm, 01/08/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
=====
No comments:
Post a Comment