REACH 284 - How do you think we can protect the vulnerable and unvaccinated while ensuring minimal disruptions to daily life? (SK)
15 Oct 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:57 am, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! ๐
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[10:20 am, 15/10/2021] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
New rules forbidding unvaccinated people from dining in at hawker centres and coffee shops kicked in on Wednesday (Oct 13), with similar restrictions to take effect in malls and large standalone stores in a week (Oct 20).
NEA, which manages hawker centres, and the Singapore Food Agency, which handles coffee shop operators, had earlier said that they will be working with stallholders to advise unvaccinated patrons against dining in. Checks on the vaccination status of diners will be done by safe distancing enforcement officers, who will do this selectively as part of their patrols, said the agencies.
๐ฌ How do you think we can protect the vulnerable and unvaccinated while ensuring minimal disruptions to daily life? How often do you do and your family do your Antigen Rapid Tests? How are you adapting to these costs of protection?
MTI and Enterprise Singapore (ESG) had earlier clarified that exceptions will be made for those who can show proof that they need access to childcare or medical services within malls. However, these concessions will not be extended to unvaccinated caregivers of children attending tuition or enrichment classes in malls, unlike those going to childcare centres and pre-schools.
A spokesman for Enterprise Singapore (ESG) said on Thursday (Oct 14): "Childcare centres or pre-schools are key services typically required by parents who need to return to work."
Since the new rules were announced, clinics and private healthcare providers have also reported an increase in people coming forward to get their jabs and booster shots.
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/unvaccinated-caregivers-cannot-enter-malls-to-take-kids-to-tuition-and-enrichment?
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/more-getting-covid-19-shots-since-vtl-news-and-dine-in-ban-for-unvaccinated
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/vtl-likely-to-see-some-import-of-covid-19-but-that-will-have-little-impact-on
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/hsa-probing-unauthorised-distribution-and-supply-of-sg-diagnostics-antigen-rapid
๐https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/29-people-to-be-charged-with-covid-19-breaches-committing-offences-in
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[10:21 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: *How often do you do and your family do your Antigen Rapid Tests? *
Zero, unless gov/company provide
[10:21 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: ART in Sg is very expensive
[10:22 am, 15/10/2021] +Stan: Totally agree!!
[10:24 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: we don't test for flu virus or dengue that much too
[10:24 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: moving toward endemic
[10:27 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: we already need to buy mask and hand sanitiser for protection.
I don't see the need to buy ART for self test on a weekly basis
[10:28 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: or Gov to allow us to use medisave to buy these ART kits?
[10:30 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-healthcare-workers-coping-cases-nurses-doctors-2237801
'I haven't seen the daylight in ages': Pressure on healthcare workers as COVID-19 cases spike
Singapore's soaring COVID-19 cases have placed significant strain on its healthcare system. CNA speaks to seven hospital workers about the challenges they are facing.
My comments:
That's why I strongly support the government vaccination differentiated measures to nudge the last harden group to vaccinate.
We need to be tough to make them vaccinate to save themselves and our society and not subject disproportionate burden to our healthcare system, finance, and Economy.
My close friend private comments (not for public): .....
My comments:
Agree.
I know there are some grey areas that some may genuinely not suitabe - but thave are a very small minority and can look at case by casee basis. Everyone is treatable - as there are many options out there - just have to pick the right one.
But we need to be tough on those frivolous majority that are eligible but refused.
We should plan to address this frivolous majority first and then look at the gray area.
Now most anti-vaxx are holding onto the gray area real concern to press their own frivolous case.
Thus there is a need to get tough on this majority eligible but defiantly refuse to vaccinate - and held everyone back.
My close friend private comments (not for public): .....
My comments:
Agree.
My position basically cover the eligible but anti-vaxx and the eligible elderly.
Pregnant one I did not press the case - though they are encourage if doctors say they are eligible.
But pregnant women are vulnerable - as they carry the lives of their baby and themselves.
As they are not vaccinated, they need to be kept out of circulation as the daily death spike - to protect themselves and their babies.
The same go for elderly and adults not vaccinated - the vaccination differentiated measures - is to keep them out of circulation - so that they won't get infected and succumb without vaccination protection - as daily death and hospitalisation spike.
My close friend private comments (not for public): .....
My comments:
Yes.
That's the challenge the government is facing.
So I think the government is taking the current vaccination differentiated measures seriously.
I think this is our last chance to resolve the vaccination of the last harden group.
The louder the noise they make - the greater the indication the measures are working. Important for the Government not to cave in - and press on. I think we will see good vaccination results among this group more than 1 month later.
My close friend private comments (not for public): .....
My comments:
Specialist won't want to mandate vaccination for the seriously ill elderly.
They will just advise the patients that vaccination will protect them.
It is still up to the patients and their families members to make the decision.
Thus vaccination differentiated measures - want to force them into a corner and make their right decision for themselves.
Without forcing them to make their choice under a do or die situation - they will just procastinate.
Thus I feel that some will give in and vaccinate.
While some will decide otherwise - and retreat into their hermit corner.
But either way they are protected from the deadly spike pandemic.
Anyway, seriously ill elderly should be kept out in circulation in the mall and dine-out - as if they are infected - they will very likely to succumb as casualties.
Moreover, if they are seriously ill elderly, they are not likely to be so healthy to walk around the mall and dine-out.
So vaccination differentiated measures are appropriate for them - as we are seeing few thousands spike per day, hundreds hospitalised per day, hundreds in oxygen support/ICUs and big sinlge digit and double digits death per day.
My close friend private comments (not for public): .....
My comments:
Yes agree - for some of this very serious cases.
But logical deduction short of official statistics that all these gray areas are only in the thousands I believe - not the 77,000 defiant that are eligible but refused for whatever frivilous reasons.
It is this harden but frivilous majority latching onto these few thousand minority's genuine case - to press their frivolous cause and refuse to vaccinate - but put a tremendous burden on our Society, our healthcare system and our National finance.
It it this frivolous majority we are going after and not the minority genuine cases.
Minority cases still can be dealt with after we handle the majority harden group.
There are so many vaccine options out there and there must be one that is bound to be suitable to the small minority genuine cases.
If not mRNA, we have the non mRNA - inactivated virus, protein sub-unit and others. we also have the nasal spray, the merck oral prevention pill, the monoclonal anti-body treatment drugs and many others.
If this minority are so fragile that not even one is suitable (which I seriously don't believe) - they won't have survive by now - because they will not also be able to take other medications for their current medical conditions.
My close friend private comments (not for public): .....
My comments:
Yes. I know.
That's why I say the last harden group not easy to deal with and very painful to resolve. The key is "Don't cave in. Press on".
Thus we need combination of selflessness, wisdom and compassion to resolve it.
And a heavy dose of stamina, preserverence, patience and wit.
We cannot lose - because the price of losing - bear down heavily on our Society, our Economy, our Finance, our Healthcare system, our Trade, our Airhub, our Seahub, our Social interaction and our Nation.
=====
[10:30 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. That's why when the covid pandemic break out - we are actually fighting the war at 3 fronts :-
a. The covid virus.
b. Keeping the Livelihood, Economy, Finance, Business and Jobs afloat.
Lastly the latent but a potent threat which is the 3rd group :-
c. Anti-vaxx group and the vaxx-hesitancy group.
The last group is in fact the hardest to deal with - because they are in the midst of us - and some are our loved ones.
[10:30 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Top virologist says Delta defeated, predicts 6+ months of COVID quiet for Israel.
3rd jab booster defeated Delta in Israel.
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMibWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRpbWVzb2Zpc3JhZWwuY29tL3RvcC12aXJvbG9naXN0LXNheXMtZGVsdGEtZGVmZWF0ZWQtcHJlZGljdHMtNi1tb250aHMtb2YtY292aWQtcXVpZXQtZm9yLWlzcmFlbC_SAXFodHRwczovL3d3dy50aW1lc29maXNyYWVsLmNvbS90b3Atdmlyb2xvZ2lzdC1zYXlzLWRlbHRhLWRlZmVhdGVkLXByZWRpY3RzLTYtbW9udGhzLW9mLWNvdmlkLXF1aWV0LWZvci1pc3JhZWwvYW1wLw?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
[10:33 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. MOH Ong YK indicate that Singapore is on trajectory to achieve 90% vaccination. 90% is a good target. But is it good enough?
a. 90% is good, but not good enough - because it means the last 10% adults especially elderly are not covered. And especially elderly are the most vulnerable and need full vaccination to protect them.
Some people say 90% is good enough no need 100% - does it means the remaining 10% are expendable and can be sacrificed - especially if they are your loved one?
Of course not.
Hence 100% vaccination must be the goal to cover everyone - as even 1 death is one too many.
b. Small pox R0 = 5 to 8 and chicken pox = 8 to 9 ---- all required 100% vaccination to curb the pandemic. This is past empirical evidence.
US study reveal that the R0 for Delta = 9, Malaysia condition exceed 10 (where one infected person can transmit to 9 or more person).
Correspond to smallpox and chickenpox pandemic ---- this means that to curb Delta covid where R0 = 9 or exceed 10 --- then only 100% vaccination can curb the covid pandemic - as per past pandemic.
What is so difficult to understand - to correspond Delta covid outcome to smallpox and chicken pox outcome - that we need 100% vaccination to curb the covid pandemic?
c. Another justification to support 100% vaccination is that if one acquire Superhuman Immunity, infection number drop significantly, so are hospitalisation number, oxygen support, ICU and death.
This is illustrated in real scenario where 3 Countries demonstrate such traits that have acquire Superhuman Immunity :-
i. Israel acquired Superhuman Immunity through :-
SuperHuman Immunity = 2 jabs vaccinated immunity (Pfizer-BioNTech) + 3rd jab booster (Pfizer-BioNTech).
- mark by significant drop in infection number, hospitalisation number and death.
ii. Demark and Norway acquired Superhuman Immunity through :-
SuperHuman Immunity = Natural Infection Immunity + vaccinated immunity
--- but note :- both Denmark and Norway suffer high casualties - death and hospitalisation with multiple spikes - before they stabilised after a big majority of the total population acquire SuperHumanity from infection follow by vaccination.
--- Thus 2 jab vaccination is the underlying foundation to acquire Superhuman Immunity.
- So does it means that the remaining 10% don't need 2 jabs vaccination and can acquire Superhuman Immunity (when vaccination is a pre-requisite to acquire Superhuman Immunity)?
- It is a no-brainer that 100% vaccination is a pre-requisite to acquire SuperHuman Immunity - if Singapore want to transit to endemic safely.
c. Some say allow Medical conditions to be exempted from Vaccinated Differentiated measures.
- Does it means that without vaccination - this medical conditions people can survive a covid infection when they are allowed to roam freely in mall, remove mask to eat in food courts and hawker centres - and won't succumb to covid?
- The disproportionate elderly death reveals that unvaccinated elderly are the one that die from covid infection and many come with medical conditions.
Isn't it all the more this group of people should be protected and not allow to roam mall and dine-out freely?
- There are so many types of vaccines out there - be it the mRNA types, non-mRNA types like inactivated virus, protein sub-unit and many others.
There are bound to have one type that is suitable for each and everyone. Else I can't see how this medical conditions people can take other medication to survive - as any one medicine will come with some side effects.
2. Thus I will like to reiterate a point - whatever lame excuses the anti-vaxx people want to come up with to want to get exemption from vaccinated-differentiated measures --- Government should stand firm and persevere. The anti-vaxx people only made up of 5% of the total population - they are of a very little minority - but very vocal.
Stand firm, resolute and don't cave in.
The louder the voice we hear from the anti-vaxx --- -the higher the chance we will get the anti-vaxx to vaccinate - because the vaccinated differentiated measures has obviously pain them.
We are closer to 100% vaccination - as long as we don't give in - and all the more tighten the screw further.
No pain no gain.
Until we see 100% vaccination - then we can celebrate as a Nation!
[10:33 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
How to derive the 100% vaccination?
((R0-1)/R0)/% vaccine efficacy
= ((9-1)/9) / 88%
= 101%
Note :- vaccines efficacy according to various study - local and overseas range from 40%, 50%, 66%, 88%, 95% - depending on when the vaccination is taken.
I took 88% the higher range for calculation - and it say >100% vaccination for total population is required!
[10:33 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Note :- Singapore study shows that after 6 months vaccination, efficacy drop to 40% against Delta.
If I calculate base on 40% vaccines efficacy it means more than 100% vaccination is required - which requires Booster.
[10:38 am, 15/10/2021] +Timothy Low: 90% vaccination rate is good enough. Impossible to achieve 100% vaccination rate so no point keep harping about it whenever the chat is reopened for discussion
[10:38 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So the current casualty rate is good enough?
[10:38 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Israel propaganda comes back again? ๐คฆ๐ป♂️
[10:39 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: That’s local Israel news… a bit Bias
[10:39 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Elderly vaccination rate is 89% now.
[10:39 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Unless WHO recommend… if not I doubt the reliability of the news outlet
[10:40 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well you can take their statistics and interpret.
[10:40 am, 15/10/2021] +Timothy Low: I don’t think you get it. What I meant is it’s impossible to achieve 100% vaccination rate, given the fact that some cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons
[10:40 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: Ok this I agree.
[10:41 am, 15/10/2021] +Timothy Low: So you need to understand there is no point advocating 100% vaccination rate when it’s entirely impossible
[10:41 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
WHO always one step slow.
It will take the experience of countries before making recommendations.
WHO did not recommend mask wearing until some countries did it first.
[10:41 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: To what percentage? Any data bias? Why WHO don’t use them as source or recommendations?
[10:42 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: So better than Israel just try what they think is right… and we just follow blindly?
[10:42 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So you can take it as pint of salt while Israel will declare Delta wave over soon.
[10:42 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: They declare a lot of times
[10:43 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: First vaccination completion, we see the spike came back
[10:43 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
We can don't follow blindly but just keep suffering high casualty daily.
[10:43 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: So 3rd booster? Works?
Takes time to see
[10:43 am, 15/10/2021] +Timothy Low: It’s funny that how Israel declared to defeat Delta and yet Singapore didn’t arrange VTL with them
[10:43 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Israel, Denmark and Norway already emerge from their Delta wave
[10:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: no direct fight to Israel...
[10:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Could it be they just let it completely spread rather than vaccinated? ๐คฃ
[10:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: no many ppl go there to travel also
[10:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Timothy Low: Ah I see
[10:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: They will jab the Palestine in Israel?
[10:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Data I am sure not complete
[10:45 am, 15/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: What?
[10:45 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Not all will trust the vaccination program
[10:46 am, 15/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: So what are you implying by saying this?
[10:46 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: I am saying there maybe Bias in data…
[10:47 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: For them to look good… and tension there is real… not about the religion issue
[10:48 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Sorry if I put it too bluntly
[10:48 am, 15/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Then perhaps you could have said that instead of your previous statement which I find quite inflammatory don't you think?
[10:48 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: I understood.. I apologise for that
[10:50 am, 15/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Let's just discuss the policies and initiatives respectfully. Try not to involve religion, race or otherwise as it may be too sensitive in a large group chat setting to accurately discuss.
No worries, cheers for participating in the discussion!
[10:51 am, 15/10/2021] +Timothy Low: Now I think we need to address one issue: Will those who are unable to be vaccinated due to medical reasons feel discriminated? How do we make them feel that it’s for their protection?
[10:51 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Mainly is to point out the data bias in the study. And may not be accurate to use as model for study in terms of implementation.
[10:51 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Unwilling participant and data collection may not be accurate.
[10:59 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
For that matter, government is making 30 years and above eligible for 3rd booster jab
[11:01 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: The likelihood of people taking will be much lower….
[11:01 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: First no extra incentives..
Second no difference in treatment from those fully vaccinated 2nd time.
[11:01 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well just got to accept more casualty for the trade off
[11:02 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-oct-14-deaths-locally-transmitted-hospital-icu-moh-2243956
Youngest COVID-19 fatality in Singapore reported with 23-year-old person among 15 more deaths
[11:03 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
207 death and still counting.
2 young unvaccinated adults death.
[11:03 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Someone say is still pretty small as compare to 4000 death in pneumonia ๐คฃ
[11:03 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Yearly
[11:04 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Lol… government employee frontline is a must to go
[11:04 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
506,552 have received booster shot.
100,000 registered.
[11:06 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Sudan, the size of France, has a vaccination rate of 1:500, which 0.2% - Covid is not going away for years, we must be prepared for that. We are lucky that we have made amazing progress in Singapore. Europe and Nth America are large land masses, wealthy and have safety in numbers. Singapore is tiny, so we are able to manage, but we are surrounded by Countries who are large, and developing so not able to cope. We have a unique position and need a unique solution. Vaccination is a must. Protection of Borders is a must. Internally, we need to take reasonable precautions, but not be overly anxious.
[11:07 am, 15/10/2021] +CQ: Can MOH provide more information about the "underlying conditions" for the 23 and 34 yo fatalities please? These are young adults and I'm sure the young people would be concerned.
[11:07 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Count the
Healthcare workers
Teachers
Government employees frontline
More than half there Liao ๐
[11:08 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Half of the elderly take so your number is about there ๐
[11:09 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: No choice lol
[11:11 am, 15/10/2021] +Jess Sunga: True
[11:12 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Those cannot choose to vaccinated really gonna be hard for them ๐
[11:15 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: If all people able to get vaccinated do, then the number of unvaccinated will be very low, and we can relax the restrictions.
[11:21 am, 15/10/2021] +Anthony: More & more causualties for the fight with Covid ,
But data just making us feel good only
However, Reality again & again telling us our protocol or measure wasn't good enough to curb the infection rate number down it means more people will be dying soon
But the way Government seems feels good on current situation stIl have the mood to compare Covid & premounia
Every Casualties telling our Big ( G ) U have to do more in order to saves people lives
Otherwise Vaccinated it's seems like just another National Campaign not meaningful at all
[11:26 am, 15/10/2021] +Anthony: Every ART kit sold at convenience store Pharmacy cost $10-, just 1 kit
Did government realise that?
However ,after weeks of discussion regards the price
It's remain so expensively
The price more expensive then our painkiller
Can low income work afford to buy & get tested
The answer is simply NO
[11:26 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: The dormitory issue yesterday ๐
Shows how over work our healthcare is… MOH no instructions to them.. workers cannot go out.. fear of infection ๐คฆ๐ป♂️
[11:27 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/workers-at-jurong-dorm-allege-neglect-frustrated-with-lack-of-medical-care-for
[11:33 am, 15/10/2021] +Charles Johnson: Most so called co-morbidities or underlying illnesses are lifestyle diseases, ie the product of modern diet, lack of exercise etc. 90% of diabetes, hypertension, obesity and others stem from poor dietary choices. It would be helpful and beneficial for MOH to share the nature of all co-morbidities as just like vaccination, knowledge is power. In this case the power to control our destinies and lead healthy lives by making smart choices.
Unfortunately Singapore has one of the highest rates of chronic illness / comorbidities in Asia. Namely high BMI, Diabetes, hypertension and cancers in their various forms. When you succumb to illness it’s often a reflection of biological not chronological age (ie an unhealthy 20 year old may have the body of a 50 year old).…
[11:34 am, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
How other countries are implementing Covid-19 vaccine mandates. Singapore is in the list - "Sharpen Vaccination Differentiated measures". https://www.straitstimes.com/world/how-other-countries-are-implementing-vaccine-mandates
[11:36 am, 15/10/2021] +Charles Johnson: Private ART test kit in Malaysia retail Pharmacy is SGD 6 per piece (and that’s with profit…) … someone’s making a ton of money …
[11:38 am, 15/10/2021] +CQ: Thanks! Indeed, knowledge is power. As some commenters on social media mentioned, at this rate, we should be avoiding those underlying conditions rather than covid itself. Although those comments would've been made with an element of scorn and belittling, it would definitely be useful to know what conditions these young patients suffered from which contributed to their untimely demise.
I was thinking could be cancer, immune diseases eg lupus, congenital heart diseases etc? But if it was something more common like asthma, I think it would serve as a huge wake-up call to those who think "I'm young, I'm OK".
[11:38 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: Alot are making a ton of money....
[11:41 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Err manpower cost and warehouse space a bit different…
Not apple to apple totally.. but yes earn quite a bit.
[11:42 am, 15/10/2021] +Anthony: Reasonable price the price should be $1-2dollar for one ART Testing Kit
Simple as that
ไบบๅฝๅ ณๅคฉ listen to it ( G )
[11:43 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Hundreds pay $125 every day for unnecessary 7 day PCR test. Same test abroad is $50.
[11:43 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Cost and development… no company don’t do free.. no charity ๐
[11:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: I wonder what's the profit margins in Sg
[11:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: I say unnecessary because returning travellers already test negative once, but those who already here who test positive only have to do ART.
[11:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: And NTUC Unity is not doing it a fair price to consumer
[11:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Charles Johnson: Yes lupus / cancer etc are major risk factors (thankfully rare but increasing incidence locally). The issue is the common comorbidities that we often are lulled into thinking we are too young to get sick or just blissfully unaware of the life changing consequences.
Common comorbidities:
High BMI
Smoking (yes it’s an illness unfortunately)
Alcohol overuse (more than 2 standard drinks per day for men and 1 for ladies.. messes up mine response)
Pre-diabetes (means sugars not high yet but body is starting to feel the strain .. pre-dates full diabetes by 10 years)
Hypertension
High cholesterol (an indication of chronic ill health even without symotons)!
[11:44 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Cost of recall, cost of storage, cost of not selling ๐
Now many supplier.. so should be competitive in pricing as compare when it first came out
[11:45 am, 15/10/2021] +Anthony: That's why ,how to be Unity very hard
No money can't afford to test spreading into more people
[11:45 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Smoking is an illness? Ok, well it can be cured. People just choose not to and create a burden on our healthcare system .
[11:46 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: Then buy from online shld be much cheaper?
[11:46 am, 15/10/2021] +Charles Johnson: This was actually taken from a Pharmacy in Kuching Sarawak, so costs also include transshipment / air freight from KL. I think it’s apple to apple ..
[11:47 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Err technically… but can trust? ๐
[11:47 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: But let's not talk about that of course. Covid kills a small fraction of the people who die from smoking related illness, but no, let's not talk about that.
[11:47 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Manpower and storage price very different I can ensure you that..
[11:48 am, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Do u really trust a test kit from unknown brand from Kuching Msia?
[11:48 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: Lazmall is official shop.
Some other platform will say it's official from the seller
[11:48 am, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Looks damn dodge...
[11:48 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: ๐คท๐ป♂️ that I really don’t know
[11:48 am, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Maybe it's those kind of test kits that r always covid negative. ๐
[11:49 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: Lol
[11:49 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: All these like not bring approve to be use in SG lei
[11:49 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: How the store selection process… only unless government say ok then I will buy
[11:49 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: If not test useless waste money and cannot claim ๐คฃ
[11:49 am, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Some company can claim for buying for work use
[11:50 am, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Someone learnt how to monetize covid. Maybe we will keep it, like we learnt to monetize smoking. Good reason not to mandate vaccinations. ๐
[11:50 am, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: A negative only ART kit shd b quite useful for majority of e population. ๐ U can't be blamed for what u don't know...
[11:51 am, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: They are only being fair to their competitors
[11:51 am, 15/10/2021] +Charles Johnson: Actually kits are all generic, even Roche outsource to China manufacturer. Hsa approval is a paper documentation.. not actual testing. We do not have testing capability or capacity.
[11:53 am, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Manufacturing is one part... QC is another. Dodge brands don't do QC well.
[11:55 am, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Btw just checked e Roche SD biosensor kit is manufactured in KR, not China...
[11:57 am, 15/10/2021] +Desmond: Eh the test strip is made in KR, the plastic is China…
Just like Apple, designed in California, assembled in China ๐
[0:12 pm, 15/10/2021] +Charles Johnson: Malaysia MOH has price control
[0:27 pm, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Wah like this then everything is made by the World liao.
[0:28 pm, 15/10/2021] +Desmond: ๐ฌ
[0:28 pm, 15/10/2021] +Desmond: That’s supply chain
[0:48 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Every S'pore household to receive 10 ART Covid-19 self-test kits: MOH
The Health Ministry will be conducting another round of distribution of antigen rapid test (ART) kits, as Singapore heads towards a new normal where frequent testing for Covid-19 becomes common.
More: https://str.sg/3qhh
[0:51 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Received an SMS from MOH to carry out a self ART Test? You are eligible to collect Antigen Rapid Test (ART) self-test kits from vending machines located at selected venues.
๐Find your nearest vending machine here!
➡️https://www.gowhere.gov.sg/art
[1:08 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Wow, Reach moves fast ๐
[1:09 pm, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: It's 9 Oct news
[1:09 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: ๐๐ป๐๐ป
[1:10 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: Not good news.
When u rcv in SMS fr MOH .. ...
Or loosely translated , means ...
"There's a CoVid case near you" ...
[1:12 pm, 15/10/2021] +En: On the topic, I ART only when I need to go back to office, and fortunately provided by company. so far I haven’t bought any yet, so not so familiar with costs. I remember at the start ran out of stock, how’s the availability like in store now? Paiseh I don’t go out much, hehe ๐
[1:13 pm, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: It's widely available now
[1:13 pm, 15/10/2021] +John Cheong: Can get from Pharmacy
[1:14 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: The red box one - Now got promo @ $9.90 a box, instead of $13, or $18.60 for set of 2, from Guardian.
Or u can get another brand 5 for $46 at Unity.
[1:15 pm, 15/10/2021] +En: Cool thanks! Think at some point I heard people cannot get their hands on ART kits, not sure if still true ๐ค
[1:15 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: ๐๐ปred box
[1:15 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: I've seen at Watson's, Guardian, Unity.
[1:16 pm, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: Now promo 9.90
[1:16 pm, 15/10/2021] +En: Thank you for your advice! ๐ค
[1:16 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: Some medical halls may also hv.. Not sure... But u can chk it out.
I got mine fr my TCM medical hall.. FYI, at the time when the stores ran out.
[1:22 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiENxmQJG2s8WEltqS4x7f324qFwgEKg8IACoHCAowjuuKAzCWrzwwpoEY?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
Pfizer Asks F.D.A. to Authorize Its Covid-19 Vaccine for Children 5 to 11.
The agency has promised to move quickly on the request and tentatively plans to meet on Oct. 26 to consider it.
A decision could come soon after Halloween.
[1:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: Despite our best efforts, diehards wl be diehards ... This grp of ppl won't change!
[1:29 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Ah.. lol nice way to evade ๐คฃ
[1:30 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Why don't they have a TT token?
[1:31 pm, 15/10/2021] +Thomas: My father don't have a phone. So is a problem for elderly . Especially now a days accessing healthub or government website require singpass. We have no other phone to access for 2fa. Suggest to allow caregiver or family members to log on for them to access government services especially healthhub
[1:31 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Also, on TT theu can update the app so when we scan it can show if we are vaccinated also, that would speed up the queue at the malls.
[1:32 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: And when we tap the light could go green or red depending if we are vaccinated
[1:32 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: Simple improvements would make a big difference
[1:33 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: I went out ytd to run some errands ... 1st time in 3 weeks of WFH...
Went to the central market place... 4 coffeshops + HDB nbrhood shops + clinics, etc.
Here's wat I observed :
* No enforcement officers...
* Ther was a prominent sign on the counter of the fish soup stall (I patronised), reminding us to verify our Vax status if dining in.
The stallholder Did Not ask me abt my Vax status when I told him I was dining in.
I asked the stallholder abt it.
His reply : "No need la ."
* Then I went to buy drink fr Drinks stall - far corner of coffee shop.
As the stallholder was giving me my drink, the boss lady asked abt my Vax status if I was dining in.
I showed her .
So, only the drinks stall lady felt compelled to do so but the rest of the stalls…
[1:39 pm, 15/10/2021] +Smiley face: Australia's Sydney to end Covid-19 quarantine for international travellers
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/covid-19-infections-linger-near-record-levels-in-australias-victoria
[1:40 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: ๐๐ปhow is NEA gg to enforce? Like I mentioned earlier, ther r 4 coffee shops in one central area. No EO .. Left to drinks stallholder to chk (but not compelled to do so). Stallholder also cannot possibly keep an eye on other stalls to see if they chk - they also nd to do their biz... ๐คท♀️
[1:40 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
See the vaccination differentiated measures working.
[1:42 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: My money is on then shutting down before X’mas because of another outbreak
[1:44 pm, 15/10/2021] +Smiley face: South Korea eases coronavirus gathering curbs before switch to 'living with Covid-19'
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-eases-coronavirus-gathering-curbs-before-switch-to-living-with-covid-19
In the Seoul area, gatherings of up to eight people will be allowed if a group includes four fully vaccinated people, and in other regions, up to 10 people will be allowed to gather.
The relaxation will also allow outdoor sports events to take place in front of crowds, rather than behind closed doors as at present, if 30 per cent of all spectators are fully vaccinated, Mr Lee Ki-il, deputy minister of health care policy, told a briefing.
[1:49 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: It's a dbl-edged sword.
Those who finally drag themselves to get vax cud be due to..
1. They nd the social interaction fr dining in.
2. They feel devastated when not able to.
3. Their turn has come to get the alternative vaccines (Sino---). There's a long queue for those.
My nbr just got vax a few days ago w Sinopharm ... She had booked months b4.
Therefore, we cannot say tt it is totally becoz of the vacc-diff measures, altho to some degree, it does help nudge these ppl fwd.
On the other end of the scale, I still hv frens not vax (MOH rec not do so due to their sickness, whatever) + diehards / nvr change type.
[1:50 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: So, I'm afraid u can't get ur 100% fully vacc!!
[1:50 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
We can set high benchmark and shoot for it.
One more Vaccinated, one life safe.
If we set low benchmark, then it means we are letting go some - that if we presevere, we can change their mind and save them.
If we say - leave no one behind - we literally say it and do it.
Until and unless we have exhausted all efforts - then destiny take over.
If we give up on them without trying, then half the battle already lost.
[1:57 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: Since u put it that way...
Setting a benchmark...
I guess we can always aim for it, but we know the possibilities... ๐
[2:02 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Eg my niece got her 1st mRNA jab. Her face subsequently swollen and develop fever.
2. The doctor say don't take 2nd jab.
3. She and her father discuss and want the 2nd jab.
4. I advise why don't consider Sinovac - and this will still be 2 jabs.
5. But my niece and her father still want to try mRNA as the protection is better.
6. After calling up, she go for her mRNA 2nd jab and she is now happily protected without side effects.
It is the will of the person whether he/she want to vaccinate or not.
My niece make it.
[2:04 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. There are some heart patients that have done bypass, some with stents.
2. But they want vaccination to protect themselves.
3. After checking with the doctors, they take mRNA vaccines.
And they are now protected.
[2:04 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-03-cardiologists-covid-vaccine-heart-patients.html
Medical specialists say that those who have undergone patients have survived heart failure, had bypass surgery or other surgeries to replace or fix heart valves or put in stents, - COVID-19 vaccine can help them prevent further heart and health complications. Vaccines is highly recommended for such patients.
[2:06 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: Don’t think it’s fair to use such an example to promote 100% vaccination rate. This is just one case.
[2:06 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: ... To each his own.
Not everyone is strong-willed.
It takes a lot for a weak-minded individual to overcome their internal beliefs, thoughts & fears.
The grp we shd be targetting at r the diehard stubborn old goats (regardless of age).
[2:07 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: +1
[2:07 pm, 15/10/2021] +CQ: i mean... it does sound like a game of baccarat... instead of betting on Banker or Player, you're betting on the vaccine or bet on our weak immune system. imagine if you've just lost your first $500 bet on your first hand, how many will be prepared to double-down and bet on the second hand?
[2:07 pm, 15/10/2021] +CQ: +2
[2:08 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Well those who don't want to vaccinate - will live with it - if they can survive the covid.
[2:09 pm, 15/10/2021] +RH: ie.
Those who can but Just Won't ...
citing religion, age, fate, whatever.
[2:10 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: Hopefully many are already forced to be more socially responsible by the current measures. I would think to protect others, it would be to limit ones social circle to the same few people.
My family does not regularly take ART test unless they fall sick or may have come into contact with somebody who caught covid. And as we are all vaccinated we do not have any additional cost of protection. Except for buying disposable mask
[2:17 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: But I do agree if more people are vaccinated it would benefit Singapore as a whole. Especially currently hospitals which are overwhelmed with covid cases. I think the higher ups and Govt need to work that part. While hospital capacity increases, number of workers does not. This results in overworked staff.
Hopefully the tough measures provide the push for those who are eligible for vaccination to step up.
I think we also need some campgain to change the mindsets of singaporeans. Especially entitled mindset where patients are demanding and rude to healthcare providers or calling A&E without having any reasonable concerns. I.E. gaining from the system as much as possible.
Imo too much hand holding from the government has also made some people overly dependent on the system and not able to make own decisions and cope when things happen. As seen from the home recovery program.
[2:23 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: https://youtu.be/kRVgUb8EH6s
Skip the first 5min … a bit long, but most of the questions on everyone’s minds are more or less answered.
Explains why our G implemented the differentiated measures as well … and also the (scientific evidence based) difference between deactivated virus vaccines and mRNA vaccines … whether a 3rd booster shot is required etc
[2:25 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: He also explained why 100% vaccination is not possible …
[2:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Rather than speculate based on our limited knowledge and medical expertise, i strongly suggest hearing the/a (real) Doctor out
[2:30 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://www.livemint.com/news/world/this-country-has-a-world-beating-99-covid-vaccination-rate/amp-11634199318578.html
This country has a world-beating 99% Covid vaccination rate.
[2:35 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore Vaccination rate of 85% is surpass by 5 other larger countries.
[2:38 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
All these countries set a high benchmark for themselves and shoot for it.
If we declare a low benchmark for ourselves, we lose focus and stamina when we reach our benchmark - and that means we intend to let go the remaining unvaccinated people without even trying.
Where hopefully, those who we intend to let go are not our loved ones.
[2:40 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Eg. We say 90% vaccination is good enough, which 10% are we letting go?
Are the last 10% comprising your loved ones?
[2:46 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: Fully 99% of Palau's population over 12 has had both shots of vaccine for the new coronavirus, the International Federation of Red Cross (IFRC) said, citing government figures which also show that this amounts to 16,152 people
They only have 16k people
[2:46 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: Lol
[2:47 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So how many percent you intend to let go?
Which group are they?
[2:47 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: It’s up to the individual to choose whether they want to vaccinate. Whatever consequence happen is for them to bear
[2:49 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore is only 5.45 million.
5 other countries have much larger population and achieve better percentage than us.
Have we done our best?
[2:51 pm, 15/10/2021] +Caleb: Talking about cost of protection.
I hope we can use our medisave for WHO EUL of vaccinations. Like SINOPHARM
[3:14 pm, 15/10/2021] +Boon: Agreed. It’s too expensive as a daily consumable.
[3:19 pm, 15/10/2021] +Laurent: https://youtu.be/B_W7QV1JtZY
Ivermictin is the solution and all governments are still lying to us
[3:20 pm, 15/10/2021] +Sally: Yes agreed
[3:22 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Ivermectin is horse de-worm medicine.
Ivermectin is anti parasite drug.
CV19 is a virus, not a parasite.
[3:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: You are in the wrong group my friend. None of us here are horses.
Brad Bowyer's group is on Telegram.
You can post your theories there.
[3:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +Laurent: what do you think there is in the Merck pill
[3:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +Laurent: Merck is the developer of Ivermictin
[3:30 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors, please be reminded to post content relevant to the topic that is being discussed. We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
[3:30 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Joe Rohan = Actor, Comedian, Podcast host
Joe Rogan might have played doctor when acting.
Joe Rogan NOT REAL DOCTOR
[3:33 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: You mean Merck had been selling the world variations of horse de-worm medication all this while????? ๐ฑ
[3:35 pm, 15/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Pfizer develops Viagra.
Does it mean Pfizer has been injecting Viagra on everyone globally?
[3:35 pm, 15/10/2021] +Rama: Wow
[3:35 pm, 15/10/2021] +Rama: Hugh
[3:35 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors, please be reminded to post content relevant to the topic that is being discussed. We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
[3:42 pm, 15/10/2021] +Smiley face: Malaysia may open borders to the fully-vaccinated from some countries: Muhyiddin
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/malaysia-may-open-borders-to-the-fully-vaccinated-from-some-countries-muhyiddin
[3:46 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Come to think of it…Moderna did not produce anything prior to the CV19 vaccine … so … there is actually NOTHING in the vaccines??? ๐ฑ
[3:47 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Wondering now of all Frenchmen are as hilarious delirious
[3:52 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: The COVID-19 so call vaccines, can not stop infection, can not stop spreading. Need a 3rd jab after 6 months. Then 6 month later? How to define fully vaccinated then?
[3:52 pm, 15/10/2021] +Rama: Exactly
[3:55 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Vaccination does not prevent you from catching CV19.
It lowers the likelihood/probability of catching CV19.
It reduces the symptoms when you do catch CV19 so you don’t die as easily.
[3:56 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: And watch the interview with Dr Leong … answers the above questions
https://youtu.be/kRVgUb8EH6s
skip the first 5min …
[3:56 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: PM promised vaccination is voluntary, not compulsory. And since 85% is fully vaccinated at current definition, then just open everything everywhere.
[3:56 pm, 15/10/2021] +Eric Lau: only 3rd point more valid.
[3:58 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: watch the video lah .. this question also answered
[3:58 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: https://youtu.be/kRVgUb8EH6s
[3:59 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: You also .. please watch and listen … from the real professionals/experts
https://youtu.be/kRVgUb8EH6s
[3:59 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: It is still voluntary for non-essential workers by the way
[4:01 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: Dear Joseph, it seems to me only things input by you are right or correct information. Others who do not agree with you, their sources are suspicious.
[4:03 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Did you watch it?
I am not in the video ๐ And i am not the originator of the video/content
Why are you so afraid to watch/listen to it?
[4:04 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: Watch/listen.. then if you still disagree, then fine … but watch:listen first.
I watch every conspiracy nutcase video that is sent my way … that’s why i understand why there are people who would choose to believe those things
[4:08 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: I also wonder why some people can type very very long msg here. I use mobile phone to input something while free a bit at work. Some seems can use WhatsApp on Laptop or PC.
[4:09 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: I can not open your tube at work
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: YouTube I mean
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2021] +jimmy chew: yes, using what's app on PC, can type long long haha, too long and every body sleeps. Need to be concise to the point and clear, which is a difficult to do.
[4:16 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: maybe i am jobless ๐คท♂️
[4:17 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: You ever watch those conspiracy nutcase videos? Or read what they write? What any of us write here … no matter how long .. also no fight bro ๐
[4:18 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: But i have to say… it’s usually very well done … nice face … good voice … solid storyline … lots of intrigue and mystery
[4:18 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: a lot of facts thrown in as well
[4:20 pm, 15/10/2021] +Joseph: but … the simple facts are used to promote the nonsense … so simpletons can relate to the simple facts … and then will automatically believe the rubbish conspiracy theories … and finally feel smart about themselves … like they got it .. while everyone else didn’t ๐ฑ
[4:24 pm, 15/10/2021] +Smiley face: Specialists are experts on means. Every specialist should also be able to step outside his special field and consider the end... The end and purpose of economics for me is the physical and spiritual well-being of men, women and children... Theoretically - I am interested in anybody and everybody's well-being.
Practically - I have to limit my aspirations to what is possible - What is possible?
- - Ernst Friedrich Schumacher (1911-1977)
[5:14 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: If I am unvaccinated against Covid-19, how can I still enter shopping malls if I need to?
Unvaccinated individuals are no longer able to visit attractions, dine at hawker centres and coffee shops or enter shopping malls without proof of a valid reason and prior testing for Covid-19.
More: https://str.sg/3coj
[5:25 pm, 15/10/2021] +An fan: Looking forward to a sharp decrease in Covid-19 numbers
[5:56 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: Which 5 countries?
Anyway if it’s true, Singapore is top 6 out of 195 countries, how is that bad?
And who is ‘we’?
[6:03 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: I'm confused, is it either a letter or a covid test, or both? I'm hoping it is the latter.
[6:03 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: AND prior testing OR prior testing?
[6:03 pm, 15/10/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Short answer: yes we’ve done the best we could. And there is no ‘best’ solution, just optimal one based on specific context. Comparisons are not meaningful without context. Singapore is a very small and urban city state without a real hinterland, and should never be really compared with the likes of HongKong. It cannot even be compared with Israel as Israel’s territory is larger. Singapore is unique in its situation and vulnerability so our solutions have to also be unique to us.
[6:08 pm, 15/10/2021] +CQ: I read it as "and", cos you need to have a valid reason to enter the mall, and negative PET is your proof to show that you're ok. But I can see how it's not written as clearly as it should've been.
[6:14 pm, 15/10/2021] +Ben: If someone has a negative test result why do they also need a letter? Just adds an unnecessary complication.
[6:14 pm, 15/10/2021] +CQ: ๐คท๐ป♀️
[6:16 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Good that PM Lee and my sentiment is in synch.
Even 1 death is too many.
This is setting the benchmark high - and shoot for the goal.
[6:16 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: I think because the tough measures are to encourage vaccination, if they allow just test result without valid reason then there will be people who will choose that instead of vaccinating
[6:18 pm, 15/10/2021] +Smiley face: Dynamic: Population
South Korea 51.7 million
Seoul 9.9 million
Malaysia 32.3 million
Kuala Lumpur 8.2 million
Israel 8.8 million
Tel Aviv 4.2 million
Singapore 5.45 million
[6:23 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: I don't think anyone disputes that "1 death is too many", it's the means of achieving so that's the issue here.
Personally, I agree 100% vaccination is the target goal (I.e I don't think govt goes out to say "let's aim for 85%"), but realistically, the number will be lower after accounting for those ineligible and those unwilling.
The question is whether we should make it mandatory, and I personally feel we need not so so at this juncture. Some people do have legitimate concerns, some are just antivax. Regardless of the reason, mandating an experimental vaccine might be overly draconian at this juncture. Yes, the pros might outweigh the cons, but the cons might mean more to some others. We can encourage, we can disincentivise, but ultimately It should be…
[6:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: only saying this cos I can tell you're a strong advocate of compulsory vaccination to achieve 100%, just wanna share my views that it's not that i don't care about the lives of others when I don't support 100% vaccination.
Nothing further from me on the vaccinated/antivax stuff๐๐ป๐๐ป
[6:26 pm, 15/10/2021] +CQ: ๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป
[6:26 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I have no strong disagreement with you.
[6:27 pm, 15/10/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
As long as can save 1 additional life, don't give up.
[6:30 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: ๐๐ป๐๐ป. But back to the topic at hand, I think govt needs to make ART more accessible. $10 a piece, i doubt many would test "regularly" unless really no choice.
I for one test weekly because of job requirements. But if it's not provided by govt, no way am I spending $10 every week to do ART. Would probably onyl do so if I'm unwell
[6:31 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: Many have said this before, $10+ per kit is not sustainable for the long run ๐ hope govt can give subsidies! Or at least idk maybe distribute kits to lower income more frequently? Perhaps the next distribution exercise can only be for lower income group
[6:32 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Friends, family of passengers allowed to enter Changi Airport arrival halls from Oct 15
In an update on its website on Friday, Changi Airport said family, friends and professional services are now allowed to pick up passengers from low-risk countries and regions in the arrival halls.
More https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/friends-family-members-of-passengers-allowed-to-enter-arrival-halls-at-changi
[6:38 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: But even with more distribution, would there be more usage? Many people may not have used their kits yet since they are not unwell and don’t see the need to.
Unless they are more careful and are living with those who are vulnerable
[6:40 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: True that, seems like a chicken egg thing ๐
[6:41 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: I know someone who wanted his staff to do weekly art (even though their sector is not required to do so), but some staff complained about having to spend $
But true, even if people have it also might not use regularly๐
[6:42 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: If only there's an ART thermometer. Put in mouth wait a while then know whether positive or negative ๐คฃ
[6:44 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:44 pm, 15/10/2021] +Adrian: Hope they can make validate the breathalyzer kits or maybe even saliva test kits. If there's sth reusable, that would be great
[6:44 pm, 15/10/2021] +Angelica: Probably for distribution, makes more sense if government only distribute to those who would use it. E.g need to collect from vending machine. Would deter people from needlessly ordering
[6:45 pm, 15/10/2021] +Kevin: Good night Megan
[6:59 pm, 15/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:59 pm, 15/10/2021] +Smiley face: 15 October, 2021
To: Distinguished Ministers And All Honorable Members
"BURST - The Bubble Of Travellings! "
(ๅคๅพช็ฏๅๅ ๅพช็ฏ)
"Do the difficult things while they are easy and do the great things while they are small. A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step."
- - Lao Tzu
Main:
Don’t have fear of failure. What will I do if I fail? What will be its consequences? It’s all our mind game. We have to push ourselves for new challenges...
Metaphorical - -
How Covid clean is a nation?
For the purpose of discussion, a fiction, a country will not retain its foreign visitors from leaving due to positive test results at the last 24 hours or critically 4 hours at the airport prior to checking in and boarding the airplane, the cruise ship or the tour bus to return to their home country.
Why this country will ensure that all departing visitors "passed" the swab tests?
Simply in two words "REPUTATION & HOSPITALISATION"! Would a country strictly identify positive cases out of these thousands visitors that will subject to quarrelling and the ultimate issuance of the Quarantine orders? What's the visitors overall experience of this country? What's the frequency of revisiting this country? Were the Covid measures overly secured or laggingly loose? Are hotel frontliners showing warm, confidence and able to communicate and connect in their daily interactions with the guests?
What's risk and is it risky?
Assuming a daily arrival of 10,000 visitors, what is the RISK of infection from these valuable visitors? We assume a 1% hit rate that is 100 visitors for every 10,000 arrivals over a staying period of up to 7 days or more. We further stratified infection risk from 1% risk to 0.2% which is 20 visitors per 10,000 will need hospital needs couple it with a very low percentage of 0.5% cross border contaminations into the host country's domestic population, this case C-19 variant. Is this model risky? Perhaps no, simply under covid situation the actuarial science has the metrics to verify and support such risk, this case the first step in the right direction of opening up!
Safety Tools:
Visitors - -
The Tourism board should initiate a briefing and education program for our tourism frontliners at airport, attractions and accommodations level. To train many smart clusters of tourism frontliners to confidently project our core abilities in handling Covid or crisis in a steady logical manner.
How to attend to visitors' enquiries, challenges and needs related to C-19? Make available on Internet and relevant places, a simple little folded paper brochure showing SHORT steps to mitigate C-19, crucial hotlines including 995/999, and all embassies phone numbers, emails and address.
Home Ground - -
A travel and handy Covid First-Aid kit measuring 32cm x 32cm x 8cm made of plastic material either compressable or a plastic box. Budget up to 1 million kits for families and offices.
In it are compartments to fit a Thermometer, an Oximeter, a few ART, one dozen Masks, Small refillable bottle Hand Sanitiser, Wet wipes and Paracetamol tablets, importantly a simplified SOP in mitigating Covid risk and instruction sheet for further actions and crucial hotlines.
Living with Covid is to accept the convergence of risk and risk appetite that is to let things function and loosen the grib in managing risk towards an optimise level, to be specific this case are economic activities, medical capacity and public health. A few bold step at a time, perhaps a ten minutes quik haircut in the mall is safe and eventually full services /amenities to all that's smart and inclusive!
Summary:
To sum things up, converge and unify safety tools and simple instructions for our visitors and our citizens.
A country REPUTATION of being clean and covid safe will be the keys in the success of its implementation of cross border travel initiatives that will consequentially be a muscular driver of economic activities, trade progressions & integrations and differentiates from other nations. Being unique, be different and avoiding a habit of "monkey see, monkey do" approach: importantly to seek every small advantage, that's simply an "unfair advantage" over others!
A brave new world, afterall, 99% of all visitors and locals are potentially asymptomatics? Let's open our minds, lightened our hearts and embrace a reset - a new norm of FUN, FREE & EASY experience for ourselves and our visitors! As the old saying goes " the rest is history...! "
Afterwords:
Risk Assessments:--
Dynamic - - Population
South Korea 51.7 million
Seoul 9.9 million
Malaysia 32.3 million
Kuala Lumpur 8.2 million
Israel 8.8 million
Tel Aviv 4.2 million
Singapore 5.45 million
Norway & Singapore - -
https://youtu.be/_ItkYhFiGBI
Malaysia - -
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/malaysia-may-open-borders-to-the-fully-vaccinated-from-some-countries-muhyiddin
South Korea - -
South Korea eases coronavirus gathering curbs before switch to 'living with Covid-19'
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-eases-coronavirus-gathering-curbs-before-switch-to-living-with-covid-19
SIA - -
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/sias-airbus-a380-plane-to-return-to-service-to-be-used-for-vtl-flight-from
Bali - -
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-reopens-bali-to-foreign-visitors-as-quarantine-rules-weigh-on-traffic
https://youtu.be/YV5ww_J2D0g
Cancer - -
According to National Cancer Institute (USA) , as at 25 September 2020, the cancer mortality rate is higher among men than women
189.5 per 100,000 men
135.7 per 100,000 women
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/understanding/statistics
Quotations:
"In Anno 1703, I called at Johore in my way to China, and he (Sultan 'Abdu'l Jalil Ri'ayat Shah) treated me very kindly, and made me a Present of the Island of Sincapure, but I told him it could be of no Use to a private Person, tho' a proper Place for a Company to settle a Colony on, lying in the Centre of Trade, and being accommodated with good Rivers and safe Harbours, so conveniently situated, that all Winds served Shipping both to go out and come into those Rivers.
- - Alexander Hamilton, a British Trader (1727)
Specialists are experts on means. Every specialist should also be able to step outside his special field and consider the end... The end and purpose of economics for me is the physical and spiritual well-being of men, women and children... Theoretically - I am interested in anybody and everybody's well-being.
Practically - I have to limit my aspirations to what is possible - What is possible?
- - Ernst Friedrich Schumacher (1911-1977)
- - END - -
======
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