REACH 283 - What are your views on the recently announced vaccination-differentiated measures? (SK)
13 Oct 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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[10:00 am, 13/10/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
From today, unvaccinated people will not be allowed to dine in or enter malls and large standalone stores.
Nonetheless, MTI and Enterprise Singapore (ESG) have said in a joint statement that exceptions will be made for unvaccinated people who need medical or childcare services, but they must show proof that they require such services. Unvaccinated individuals working in malls will continue to have access to their workplaces as they already undergo twice-weekly testing.
💬 What are your views on the recently announced vaccination-differentiated measures?
Separately, Minister Grace Fu said that hawker centre and coffee shop operators would be required to remind patrons that they should not dine in if they are unvaccinated. She added that enforcement will be "very selective and pragmatic", so as not to inconvenience the large majority of vaccinated diners.
A week’s grace period from 13-19 Oct has also been given for mall operators and others to become familiar with these measures.
Explaining the rationale for these measures in a video put up on FB, Minister Lawrence Wong said, "We are looking out for these unvaccinated people because the risks are higher.”
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/stricter-rules-for-those-unvaccinated-against-covid-19-to-take-effect-from-wednesday
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/why-we-need-covid-19-booster-shots-tighter-curbs-lawrence-wong-ong-ye-kung-answer-key
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/food-stall-owners-to-check-if-customers-are-vaccinated-spot-checks-to-ensure-rules-are
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[10:02 am, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: Just make vac mandatory just like child vac.
We going thru so much just for the 10% minority.
[10:15 am, 13/10/2021] +Dan: Reminds me of the movie Minority report~ annex them before they commit crime.
[10:15 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Vaccination differentiated measures - I support.
2. Mandatory vaccination - I support.
3. Because to transit to endemic - total population need to develop Superhuman Immunity.
4. To acquire Superhuman Immunity - Vaccination immunity is a pre-requisite.
5. So 100% vaccination is essential - for the Nation to transit to endemic safely.
[10:15 am, 13/10/2021] +Adrian: While I understand the intent of this new measure, just have two thoughts:
1) it's hard to totally enforce this new measure (i.e how to stop someone who claim he/she is going for medical, but actually does sth else?). Hence, I wonder how effective this measure would actually be. Plus, it has also caused quite a bit of unrest. Hence after weighing the pros (hard to enforce, and thus might not be effective) and cons (much unrest, displeasure towards govt, potentially fueling more anti govt & anti vax sentiments), not sure if this was a good move in hindsight.
2) it's always hardEr to "take away" something from people (e.g. unvax cannot go mall), as compared to not giving them something (e.g. only vax can go mall). The comms and message that's being sent is d…
[10:15 am, 13/10/2021] +jimmy chew: there are real reasons why some cannot be vaccinated
[10:17 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/infection-vaccination-superpowers-experts-answer-051247696.html
Infection + Vaccination = Superpowers. How Experts Answer 'Do I Still Need the Vaccine' Question.
[10:20 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
183 death - failure to acquire Superhuman Immunity - is the main reason why vaccination is a pre-requisite.
Even 1 death is too many.
[10:21 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Every death in Daily announcement - is painful to bear.
[10:24 am, 13/10/2021] +An fan: When everyone talks about mall restrictions to unvaccinated, there is new restrictions to vaccinated people too. Only 2 can go together. Why?
[10:25 am, 13/10/2021] +An fan: 1.5% seniors make up 2/3 ICU beds, then restrictions should limit to these seniors only.
[10:28 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/why-impact-long-covid-could-outlast-pandemic-2238096 Why impact of ‘long COVID’ could outlast the pandemic.
[10:30 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The impact of unvaccinated people on the health care services will outlast the pandemic - and impose tremendous burden to the country finance and health care services.
Hence vaccination is so essential to prevent long covid.
[10:32 am, 13/10/2021] +John Cheong: "A large study based on data from a US health plan published in the BMJ in May found that 14 per cent of people infected with the coronavirus developed one or more related complications requiring medical care beyond the acute phase. But so did 9 per cent of people in a control group. Some symptoms might occur by chance or be triggered by stress and anxiety.
Social restrictions, lockdowns, school and business closures, loss of livelihood, decreases in economic activity and shifting priorities of governments all have the potential to substantially affect mental health, according to a study that appeared on Oct 8 in the Lancet."
[10:36 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: What is the penalty if Unvax are caught dining in, and who gets the penalty - venue owner or diner or both? They get told off and if they do it repeatedly there is a fine. Seems really vague and won't be taken seriously.
[10:37 am, 13/10/2021] +John Cheong: I think differentiated measures for the unvaccinated - for the time being - is necessary to allow the health system to transit back to a more normalized state, given the many thousands of asymptomatic individuals that will be out and about with the new measures.
Vaccination should still remain a choice for individuals but the unvax should recognize these are reasonable consequences of the choice they have made and they have to wait for things to settle down before life can become more "normal" for them.
[10:37 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: In Europe I was asked to show my Covid Vaccination pass (same as TT) in each restaurant as soon as I walked in. I realise that is harder to do in Hawker and Food Courts though.
[10:37 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Also, how does someone know if a letter is official and what determines 'neccessary' to go in to a mall?
[10:38 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: I worry this is a policy that is unenforceable, confusing and will create a lot of stress and worry. Why not just be clear? Vaccinated or Vaccine Exempt, or No Entry.
[10:39 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Everyone has a choice. Get Vaccinated or Don't go to Malls. Simple.
[10:40 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Exactly - Simple Choice. Clear Message. What I read now is fluffy, ambiguous and open to abuse. This lack of decision making makes our society weak and unproductive. What happened?
[10:52 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Many countries in the world, even the most free and democratic countries such as US, UK, EU, etc implemented vaccination travel lane and allow only vaccinated people to dine in, enter mall and other places.
Some countries like US, Canada adopt mandatory vaccination.
2. Many Asia Pacific countries also adopt the same.
3. So Singapore should not shrink by less than 5% unvaccinated adults and elderly objection.
4. Vaccinated differentiated measures is a mainstay policy adopted worldwide.
So Singapore policy is appropriate and above board.
[11:00 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
5. The last 5% minority group will be the harden group.
6. Government must stand resolute supported by the vast majority of the people on this vaccinated differentiated measures and get the remaining people vaccinated.
7. Only then, we can prevent overwhelming our healthcare system, transit safely to endemic and help the whole population acquire Superhuman Immunity - the only safe path to endemic.
8. Denmark and Norway show the world that once superhuman immunity is acquire by the total population - endemic is possible and the whole economy can reopen safely
[11:03 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
9. There are so many mRNA and non mRNA type of vaccines - where at least one type is suitable for any people.
10. Giving excuse that some people cannot be vaccinated is a very lame excuse.
11. Hence the government must not be fool by the lame excuse that some people cannot receive vaccination.
[11:06 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
12. The nation and the economy cannot be hold back and held hostage by some defiant 5% minority who refuse to vaccinate.
13. Good to hear that 77,000 elderly has yet to vaccinate. Down from 80,000.
Press on....
Eventually we will succeed.
[11:07 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZWh0dHBzOi8vcGgubmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20vaG9uZy1rb25nLXJpc2tzLWdsb2JhbC1zdGF0dXMtYXMtc2luZ2Fwb3JlLW9wZW5zLXVwLXRvLXdvcmxkLTAyMjQwNTE2NS5odG1s0gFtaHR0cHM6Ly9waC5uZXdzLnlhaG9vLmNvbS9hbXBodG1sL2hvbmcta29uZy1yaXNrcy1nbG9iYWwtc3RhdHVzLWFzLXNpbmdhcG9yZS1vcGVucy11cC10by13b3JsZC0wMjI0MDUxNjUuaHRtbA?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
Hong Kong risks global status as Singapore opens up to world.
[11:08 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/border-closures-delta-variant-vaccination-rates-vaccinated-travel-lanes-2234886 Delta variant makes COVID-19 border closures unsustainable in Southeast Asia.
[11:09 am, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/vaccines-prevent-severe-covid-even-061606008.html
Vaccines Prevent Severe Covid, Even From Delta, Reveals Latest Study in Hope for Fight Against Covid.
[11:36 am, 13/10/2021] +CQ: Not too happy with the vaccine-differentiated measures, cos with the new exceptions and exceptions to the exceptions, it's impossible to enforce.
Here's one example: One can gain entry to the mall by saying "I going to tarpau" and is let through. But once he's through, you cannot control where exactly he goes. He can taupau, but he can also go "since I'm here, let me swing by NTUC to buy something", then pop by the bakery to buy breakfast for tomorrow morning, "my hair a bit long, go cut hair", then enroute to the food court "ooh, new iPhone, no queue! Lemme go in and take a quick look", then finally go and buy lunch, and on the way out, buy a bubble tea.
How do you control that? If the checks are only at the entry points, once they cross "customs", they'r…
[11:37 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Agreed- this is an ill-thought through policy and seems like another knee-jerk reaction to a tiny minority of complainants who don't want to get vaccinated.
[11:39 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: The problem is that it makes the government look weak and undisciplined. I'm sure they are not, but the constant tweaks and compromises to the policies after they are announced is really poor management and communication. Why not think it through and get it right first time?
[11:41 am, 13/10/2021] +KSFoong: This morning, i went to a coffee shop to take my breakfast, the stall owner asked me to show my vaccination status. He told me if i am not able to show him i m vaccinated, he cannot sell me dine in food. I can only hv take away package food. A responsible hawker👍
[11:41 am, 13/10/2021] +CQ: Yeah. So either stick to their guns and blanket ban, or don't rollout until all the details have been considered and consulted. This just looks like a joke.....
[11:44 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Yes simple as that. How do they not know how to do this?
[11:45 am, 13/10/2021] +CQ: I have my thoughts, but that veers into the political realm which we're not supposed to discuss in this chat. So.... 🤷🏻♀️
[11:46 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Not discussing politics. This is about policy management and communication management. Non political and non partisan.
[11:47 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: It's also about what is the right policy for Singapore, how we are perceived internally and internationally.
[11:49 am, 13/10/2021] +CQ: Well, the thoughts I have would tread a very thin line between politics and policy implementation, so I'd rather not risk it.
[11:50 am, 13/10/2021] +Ben: All it takes is someone to check and consult on the policy before it gets announced. I'm sure we on this thread will be happy to provide feedback before they make it official!
[0:04 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: +1
[0:06 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: +1
[0:15 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Just another policy measure for the sake 85%population who had being fullyl Vaccinated wish to enjoy ( NN )daliy life Kill off 15% Population freedom to dine in at eateries & freedom to shopping needs, The reason Those Who's UNVAXED easy to to catch virus
If so we can just simply apply this measure more than an year ago.
Why now
We simply too selfish
That's All
[0:15 pm, 13/10/2021] +John Cheong: +1 thanks for sharing this. Majority will try to make this happen well. No policy is 100% foolproof.
[0:16 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: ... and how many 'responsible' hawkers wl ther be?
When it gets busy, w queues, or when biz is slow, wl the same hawker stick by the rules or give it a quick miss... "after all, no one is looking or checking... I nd the biz... " ?
Or tt the hawker will not forget to ask every customer his Vax status?
U know, humans r creatures of habit. If they dun adapt to the new situation, they wl lapse bk into their old ways , out of convenience & familiarity.
And then again, no one said it's the Hawker's or stallholder's responsibility to chk status. Someone assume the job has bn done at entry point. They r just ther to sell their wares, not be sentinels for the gov!
So many possibilities on how this differentiation policy can go wrong
... back to enforcement again...
With thousands of stalls, how do we ensure differentiation btn Vax / UnVax?
... I'm afraid it's bk to the drawing board for the gov, on this... 🤦🏼♀️🤷♀️
[0:18 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: Yes...
Like putting it thru feedback channels like this first.
Why hv feedback channels, if the gov is just gg to announce such measures will nilly, which they r unsure of?
[0:19 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: *willy nilly
[0:29 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: I hv frens who r still not vax.
Some r diehard, stubborn old goats.
Some r waiting for Novavax.
Some r just too afraid of the after effects, what-not ... Just either mis-informed, ill-informed, or just plain dun flw news, dun understand, dun care.
While I empathize w how they feel, on the other hand, if they make up
the remainder 15%, a minority ,
Why then is the gov expending so much energy & time on them?
We shd look to how the majority can now live with CoVid (the UnVax too - how to live, not be ostracised).
Coming up w differentiation rules for Vax vs UnVax sounds like we r fighting against ourselves over.... ??? What? For wat purpose?
Also, if the whole point of this is to lighten the load on our health system,
Then please bolster up the physical resources for tt,
Hype up the call for more voluntary medical assistance, tell the UnVax to stay home,
(which, btw, the frens I mentioned earlier, r alredi quite happy to do so).
Tt means the gov is wasting their time on a grp of ppl who dun care. So, laissez-faire, gov!
[0:31 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: I think the 15% includes under 12s too! Maybe there are just 77,000 people we are all focused on. Maybe it's time to move on and focus on other issues. Either the 77,000 are a problem and we need them to stay home, or they are not a problem and we can stop talking about it.
[0:32 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: Oh. Agreed.
We're talking abt the 77k adults, then.
Tks!
[0:34 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: A truly miserable figure ... Is it worth bending over backwards just for such a small grp who won't or r resigned to their fate by now, anyway?
[0:36 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: Gov shd also ensure ample supply of alternative vaccines, since this grp claim they hv various medical conditions tt preclude them fr taking our nationally approved ones.
[0:40 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Only 5% adults and elderly unvaccinated.
Not 15%.
The remaining 10% are young children still not eligible to vaccinate yet.
[0:43 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: I think we should focus now on discussion of the 10% of innocent kids whose lives are being severely compromised due to covid and can do nothing about it. How are we going to help them? The future leaders, home builders, workers and security of our country? Seems like they have had very little support or attention.
[0:43 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: 10% of population I mean.
[0:43 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: My kid has just been told he can play football again, but only 2 players on the pitch. What a joke.
[0:44 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: Point proven.
Stubborn old goats, like I said.
One's personal choice.
In this case, I see it as selfish too - the rest of the family has to walk on eggshells ard him... Not tt they aren't, since they appear to be responsible ppl - but the virus doesn't differentiate.... 🤷♀️
[0:48 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: Many of my other frens hv tried convincing such stubborn diehards... Never ending excuses why not to be based...
We've all given up.
So, at this stage now, let's move on w life.
Focus on the majority, since the minority hv alredi made their choices & r sticking w it.
We hv to learn to live not just w CoVid , but w this grp of diehards.
C'est La Vie!
(That's Life!)
🤷♀️
[0:49 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/covid-19-south-korea-panel-debate-how-live-2240966
South Korea launches panel to debate 'living with COVID-19'
[1:04 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Convincing the doubters: Why some younger people are reluctant to get the COVID-19 vaccine.
While the focus has been on getting older people to get vaccinated against COVID-19, there are also some younger people who are reluctant to get the jab.
CNA speaks to hesitant individuals, including some who have now decided to get the vaccination.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/unvaccinated-new-rules-malls-hawker-centres-covid-19-vaccine-2235856
[1:10 pm, 13/10/2021] +RH: * be vaxed
[1:11 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Israel finds COVID-19 vaccine booster significantly lowers infection risk.
Superhuman immunity acquire through 3rd booster.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-finds-covid-19-vaccine-booster-significantly-lowers-infection-risk-2021-08-22/
[1:17 pm, 13/10/2021] +N: It's terrible. If you are so sure vaccination is the right way, why not make it mandatory. And if you are not sure, why discriminate.
[1:18 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Before delta come in, sg only has 30+ deaths, now 183.
[1:20 pm, 13/10/2021] +Nee: No it includes only eligible population
[1:20 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
If we still tidak APA - and not do what is right - easily death can go up 4 figures.
[1:25 pm, 13/10/2021] +REACH: Stricter rules for those unvaccinated against Covid-19 kick in at hawker centres, coffee shops
More: https://str.sg/3qVH
[1:25 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/librariesprovider5/covid-19-chart-(pr)/fig-2-(7-sep).png
[1:25 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: As of 7TH SEP 2021
[2:03 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Daliy cases more then 2000+ for weeks now
Are we have no better idea to stop the infection rate down
Instead have to pointing 15% population for not taking up Vaccination &
Stopping to go eateries & shopping
But can we curb the number down the answer is obvious ( NO )
[2:04 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/covid-boosters-pfizer-says-israel-data-shows-third-shot-restores-efficacy-to-95percent.html
Pfizer says Israel data shows third Covid shot restores protection from infection to 95% as it makes case to FDA for boosters.
[2:04 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Just let it go , That's more like a ✌️✌️ New Normal✌️✌️
[2:05 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: So is it 85% of total population including kids, or 85% of eligible population excluding kids? Seems to be some contradictory charts!
[2:05 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
You suggest letting more people die.
This is what you want.
[2:05 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: 85% including kids
[2:06 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: So this indicates it is 85% of total population including kids, so around 5% of eligible population have not taken it up, correct?
[2:06 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Got it, thanks
[2:06 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
You suggesting hospitals overwhelm and medical staff work until death.
[2:06 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Coz ,already happen
[2:07 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: So we won't make vaccine mandatory because of a few % that are stubborn, but we will create confusing policies no one can enforce or understand to placate them?
[2:07 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Previous measure didn't work well.
That's the situation now
[2:08 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
So what you suggest don't work and many government in the world will enforce vaccination.
If want privilege - vaccinate.
Else don't complain when privilege is withdraw from the unvaccinated.
[2:09 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Give & Take leave some space for those who are Vaccinated ,Be kind to one & another
[2:10 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The country, society, taxpayers money is not be held back, wasted on defiant unvaccinated people - causing a big burden to the nation.
The government need to get tough on those defiant.
[2:11 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Maybe I too kind for that ,Plus I do carry 人情味 iin my heart ❤️
[2:14 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: 留一条路,, 让人走，大家都好
你说是吗😉😉
[2:15 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
When time need to be tough government need to get tough.
When daily death number rise, there is no time to be sissy - and government getting tough is the right approach.
The economy have been lockdown for too long - and enough is enough.
Only 5% recalcitrant ones - holding back the entire nation - no need to be nice to them.
[2:16 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Tell that who die one by one.
You nicety sounds very hollow and uncompassionate.
It is like smiling nicely to the dying as they die.
[2:18 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-comirnatyr-receives-full
[2:18 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Singapore can join China become Communists Country get it 黑心的你
Tougher like U 大男人主义🤣🤣
[2:19 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: The approved vaccine is Comirnaty.
[2:20 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: That is the Brand name for Pfizer
[2:21 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Different
[2:21 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Better than hypocrisy who pretend to be nice - but see people dying that can be save by a jab.
Can dispense with such nicety.
[2:22 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: It's the same inside the bottle. Comirnaty is the EU brand name, but it's the same vaccine.
[2:22 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Can say that who has die with your "good" heart.
[2:22 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: We can assume so. Legally we do not know.
[2:23 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Congratulate ,U can move to China live that with Xi Jiping Comrade
[2:24 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Tough Guy Tough Decision maker
[2:24 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: lol yes we do unless there is evidence it is not. Otherwise we are just sheep to conspiracy theorists.
[2:26 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
You can visit their wake and praise the death - well done unvaccinate and die.
You Nice you support their cause.
[2:28 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: There is no such vaccine Comirnaty on market at all. We are told something else is same as it.
[2:28 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: Dont pretend to be 大好人，Mr 大男人主义
[2:28 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: Zzzzzz...
[2:29 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: This Chap forget , just another idiot only😝😝
[2:30 pm, 13/10/2021] +Jerick Tan: Danny, you may not be right in criticising him. These deaths are not caused by unvaccinated or vaccinated people, but irresponsible people. Even you're vaccinated, if you still mingle with others frequently, you're going to cause more deaths than an unvaccinated person who practices good social distancing.
[2:30 pm, 13/10/2021] +Anthony: U just want to save Government Money ,after all not your money
[2:31 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Pfizer-BioNtech is still under emergency use, if I understand it correctly
[2:31 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: We were given Comirnaty here in Singapore. it just a brand name of a vaccine made by Pfizer. Pfizer make many vaccines, they needed a name for this one. It's hard to pronounce and spell, but it's their choice I guess! 😂
[2:31 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: it even says it is the same in the text you posted
[2:34 pm, 13/10/2021] +Jerick Tan: We need to get rid of this polarising lens that labels the unvaccinated as irresponsible and the vaccinated as responsible. These two groups are not monolithic or homogeneous; for more constructive conversations, we need to make finer distinctions
[2:34 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine#:~:text=Today%2C%20the%20U.S.%20Food%20and,years%20of%20age%20and%20older.
[2:35 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Not sure where you get your news or how old it is. Best go to the official sources.
[2:35 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: If they are the same thing, where there’s an “and” there
[2:36 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Read the whole sentence. " xxx and xxx have the same formulation"
[2:36 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Thus if from Pfizer website. You may click the link to read full 48 pages
[2:37 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Yes, the key word there is "read" - please read it.
[2:38 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Then why this one we used still under emergency use. To avoid legal action in the future?
[2:38 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: ?? Sorry, I am not able to spend more time on this. There is a vaccine which has two different brand names, but is the same vaccine. It has been fully approved in the US by the FDA, it has not yet been fully approved by the EU.
[2:39 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Same formulation to be doesn’t mean same thing. If it is same thing you don’t need to use different names
[2:39 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Indeed, most Countries in the world is extending privileges to those vaccinated in the form of vaccinated travel lane, dine in and visit to mall and many places.
See the SDA actively checking people on vaccination status.
Good job!
[2:39 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Many products have different names in different countries. Cars, shampoo, food etc. It's no different.
[2:40 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: If that’s the case, good.
[2:45 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Already expecting those anti-vaxx to make noise and the noise will grow louder and louder.
Stand resolute and tighten the screw.
It will bear results.
[2:50 pm, 13/10/2021] +REACH: 2,409 travellers from eight countries approved to enter S'pore under Vaccinated Travel Lane
More than 2,000 travellers have been granted a pass to enter Singapore under a quarantine-free travel scheme, after the first day of applications opening for visitors from eight countries.
More: https://str.sg/3qjJ
[2:52 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well done, Singapore finally has commence to revive our Air hub and welcome only vaccinated overseas travellers.
Vaccinated people are welcome!
[2:53 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Overseas travellers not coming so soon yet right? Can not ask them to go into malls or attractions by 2 people only.
[3:09 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: 🤣
Think they be coming for work or on a need basics I guess.
[3:16 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/covid-boosters-pfizer-says-israel-data-shows-third-shot-restores-efficacy-to-95percent.html
Pfizer says Israel data shows third Covid shot restores protection from infection to 95% as it makes case to FDA for boosters.
[3:18 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
3rd jab booster can bring the RT < 1 and R0 down significantly.
In other words, infection number and hospitalisation number can drop significantly with 3rd booster shot - as reveal by Israel data.
[3:22 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Well I thought leisure travel. The whole foreign family breaks into groups of 2 to eat or wander around. Actually it is ok too, maybe. If not lost.
[3:33 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hence vaccination is the right strategy to bring us back to pre-pandemic state.
And vaccinated differentiated measures should be our mainstay policy - for domestic social interaction as well as overseas vaccinated travel!
But do brace for more and more noise from the few minority anti-vaxx group - and stay resolute and not bend to their objection.
We shall prevail and eventually emerge as a fully 100% vaccinated State.
[3:36 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Visited 3 malls and see that staff and SDA conscientiously checking the vaccination status of all the people entering the mall.
Though longer queue form than usual, very please to see government are taking vaccination differentiated measures seriously and people are cooperative.
[3:37 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Agreed - very good! Personally I'm frustrated about having to pay $125 just now for a 7 day PCR test when even positive people only have to a home ART test. The lady on the phone said "gov is looking to change the policy" - yea maybe spending too much time fiddling around with mall entry policy to address this.....
[3:38 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: reunite with family perhaps. it's been a long time.
[3:38 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The more noise we hear from the anti-vaxx - it shows the more effective is the vaccination differentiated measures.
I believe by more than 1 month, vaccination rate should shoot up quite significantly.
[3:39 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Yes Gov should not have caved so quickly.
[3:40 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Government should stand resolute.
It will bear result.
[4:39 pm, 13/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We want to HEAR MORE from you!
We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan 😊
[4:40 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: the Q to the mall is horrible... But I understand that Gov is trying to slow down the spread of the virus.
[4:41 pm, 13/10/2021] +Smiley face: Some hawkers, diners confused as stricter Covid-19 rules kick in at hawker centres, coffee shops
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/some-hawkers-diners-confused-as-stricter-covid-19-rules-kick-in-at-hawker-centres
[4:41 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: angry with the long Q, but understandable that we are still in a pandemic situation
[4:42 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Long queue because people don't know how to get their TT app open and ready to show? Should be as quick as when we all had to do that last year before the tap in and out was working.....
[4:43 pm, 13/10/2021] +Smiley face: Queues form at malls as vaccination status checks begin under new Covid-19 measures
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/queues-form-at-malls-as-vaccination-status-checks-begin-under-new-covid-19
[4:44 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: the tablet or HP is slow ...
[4:45 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: people also don't know need to tap their token or hp on the mall tablet/HP
[4:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: slow in scanning and check is it have been vax or PET pass
[4:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: yeah, and if they're using the SafeEntry checkpoint, they need to check the patron's app separately or they have to use the SafeEntry Biz app to check the vaccination status. so it's now a 2-step verification process
[4:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: oh dear.... why are these things so painful. 🤦♂️ Not sure about the use of TT for safe entry. It didn't seem to accomplish much. Maybe we just move forward now showing our vaccine status. It would make life a little easier.
[4:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: do we still need SE all mall
[4:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: ?
[4:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: if moving towards endemic
[4:48 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: agreed - seems like this can be dropped now.
[4:48 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: or maybe just for entry into shops not the mall itself.
[4:50 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: all these steps and regulations are beginning to seem unnecessary and quite frustrating. If needed, how about Vaccination to get into the mall, and SE for getting into the shops, if thats really needed. After all we either have token or bluetooth for SE that automatically tracks us anyway.
[4:53 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Biochip comes on the way, embedded under skin, not only vaccinated or not, also show all your status, licences, and Bank accounts, home address and so on…..
[4:54 pm, 13/10/2021] +Rama: Government tracking device
[5:00 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: We're already being chipped and tracked, and it's voluntary! It's called a mobile phone.
[5:00 pm, 13/10/2021] +Timothy Low: If this is really the case, the religious will all the more won’t want to be vaccinated
[5:00 pm, 13/10/2021] +Rama: Biochip voluntary!?
[5:01 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: ya, don't think MOH will inform everyone in the mall that positive case was in the mall.
If not now I think everyone will get a SMS by now
[5:02 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: excellent point - so why request SE into the mall?
[5:02 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Technically it is possible. Imagine you do not need to carry anything to buy food.
[5:03 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: you do know that mobile phone tracks EVERYTHING right? then got social media, you use GPS, you do your online banking, order food, order groceries, shop on Taobao, pay by credit card etc etc. it's a major network out there.
[5:04 pm, 13/10/2021] +Rama: Percentage of population that don't know? Any issues for them?
[5:05 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: don't know doesn't mean it's not happening. they can try going off the grid.... as long as they avoid all CCTVs, don't use ATM don't use credit card, don't use the banking system, don't use mobile phone...
[5:07 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Just steering the conversation back to this so REACH doesn't miss it.... 😂
[5:08 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: hmm, think MOH got say last week that malls have higher risk of getting the virus
[5:08 pm, 13/10/2021] +Caleb: that's why need to implement, only vax then can go into mall
[5:09 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: i think the current manner of implementation is best described as a "bandaid approach". what looks like is a problem, we just paste something over it and fix the leak. somewhere else got leak? paste another bandaid over it.
[5:09 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Yes, show Vax and enter, no need to show Vax and also do SE
[5:10 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: I did not mean the vaccines had any things to do with biochip, please do not get me wrong. Talking about tracking, reminded me something about biochip so I type here.
[5:10 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Safe entry is still require if a big cluster is form - so that remedial action such as closing the mall - if many infected cases come from the mall.
2. Checking vaccination status in the entry of the mall ensure unvaccinated people don't sneak in.
3. Dine in checking vaccination status to ensure that only vaccinated can dine in - not the unvaccinated that are allow in to see doctors or bring the kids in and out of school.
4. Longer queue may form while doing the checking - but a necessary measures to keep infection number down as covid is raging.
Also a good way to train people on tolerance, patience and endurance.
[5:14 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/queues-form-at-malls-as-vaccination-status-checks-begin-under-new-covid-19?utm_campaign=stfb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
"An unvaccinated patron who wanted to be known only as Ms Sue, 40, is making the most of the current grace period for malls before the rules kick in on Oct 20.
" I'm going to go out every daythis week to meet people, and use up some vouchers," said Ms Sue, who was worried she would be stopped from entering malls on Wednesday.
She added that she will also be going to Spotlight at Plaza Singapura to "stock up on things I cannot get next week"."
🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
[5:14 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: 1. Yes, but SE is still needed to enter the shops etc so that safety net is already there. Don't need it at the entrance too. 2. Yes, as now 3. Yes, as now. 4. Back to number 1. Incidentally why do you feel government needs policies to 'train' people in those things?
[5:16 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Because not all people got discipline.
[5:16 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: This is just ridiculous and exposes the shortsightedness and poor management of this policy. Talk about making a mockery of what we have all been working so hard to avoid this last 20 months.
[5:16 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: and this policy is in place to 'train' a small number of people in how to behave?
[5:16 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: 🤷
[5:17 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: You've lost me totally. If that is the purpose pick a better time and way to implement it.
[5:17 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: I'm going to assume that is not what this policy is about.
[5:17 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Unless all people vaccinate.
[5:18 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: and what about number 4 - which was already addressed in number 1?
[5:18 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Then many restrictions can be lifted.
[5:18 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: True and a lot of time, energy and money saved.
[5:19 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: So because of 77,000 people we all have to go through this checking and queuing etc etc
[5:19 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: if we were all vaccinated then there would be no need for this.
[5:20 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Now you know why a small minority imposing a big burden on the nation.
[5:20 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: 👍 😂
[5:23 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Not always
[5:23 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: How ironic ... same people who can't live without smartphones are the ones complaining that G is tracking them. What important dat/secrets do these people hold that the G would need to go to such lengths to track them I wonder 🤔
[5:23 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: 🙂
[5:26 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Worried about G surveillance, but think nothing about sharing information with a facebook friend whom you have never met in person before. The irony is thick indeed,
[5:29 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Already here by the way ....... At the other end of the spectrum ...
https://emag.medicalexpo.com/the-rise-of-biochipping/
[5:31 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Its called a smartphone 😂
[5:32 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: I don't feel that this should be burdened on the unvaxxed. There is much more going on in controlling an epidemic than vaccination alone.
Like many have said, focus greater efforts than on a small percentage of population.
Besides, to be endemnic doesn't need all to be vaxxed right?
It is precisely these measures which have made such views come to the forefront, because that's the nature of differentiation.
Wanting more to be vaxxed is good, but doesn't have to result in blame. I personally would draw the line at blame and discrimination when it comes to viewing and tackling problems.
[5:35 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The differentiation about vaxx and non-vaxx is more death among the unvaxx.
[5:36 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
And the significant proportion of unvaxx hogging the ICU and hospitals
[5:38 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Glad you are here! Why? REACH would like us to share right? Are you the regulator here? Need brainstorming.
[5:39 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Maybe we can get some good ideas while arguing.
[5:39 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: I can appreciate these comments. But vaxxed spreading and in hospital also not low. My point is no need to make this group of people appear to be the only scapegoats.
[5:40 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: E.g., we don't say underlying conditions or aged people don't enter mall... Quite high proportion too.
[5:41 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
50.1% in ICU, oxygen support and majority death come from unvaccinated out of 77,000 unvaccinated people.
The very small minority imposing undue disproportionate nation medical resources.
This explains the need why differentiating the vaxx and non-vaxx is important.
[5:41 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Whatever it is, it's temporary, everyone be responsible and tide over this in time.
[5:43 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: It's ok, I can appreciate your sentiments, I just have differing views on "5% holding back the entire nation".
[5:44 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Simple as that the world government is adopting such differentiated measures and have been working well.
Then our government should not relent and should further tighten the measures.
Good result to get the unvaccinated is imminent - as we hear the noise get louder.
[5:45 pm, 13/10/2021] +Rama: https://mothership.sg/2021/10/unvaccinated-petition-singapore-malls/
[5:45 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes it is the 5% holding back the entire nation.
US president, EU leaders and UK leader say the same.
[5:45 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The pandemic of the unvaccinated.
[5:45 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: My impression is to be endemic and living with covid doesn't mean all must be vaxxed, unless someone somewhere has defined it this way.
[5:46 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Oh... hmmm...
[5:46 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-09-05/the-unvaccinated-are-a-risk-to-all-of-us
The Unvaccinated Are a Risk to All of Us
[5:47 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes continue to count the death daily - make up of majority of the unvaccinated.
[5:48 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/24/biden-says-unvaccinated-americans-are-costing-all-of-us-as-he-presses-covid-vaccine-mandates.html
Biden says unvaccinated Americans are 'costing all of us' as he presses Covid vaccine mandates.
The pandemic of the unvaccinated.
[5:50 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Good the vaccination differentiated measures is working effectively.
It has drive deep into the desire of the unvaccinated.
By more than a month times - should see the vaccination rate go up.
Government should stand firm and tighten the screw further.
No pain no gain.
[5:50 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: The bloomberg article doesn't explain how the mutation is different in vaxxed and unvaxxed.
Except to explain the nature of mutations. And that mutations could spread fast. Which is a normal expectation.
No worries I could try research more comprehensive articles
[5:52 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: No, I am not a/the Regulator and I did not once try to stop anyone from "sharing" even when I think they are just sharing rubbish.
You shared..... I read ... I shared my thoughts on what you are sharing. Honestly I don't see what there is to argue. You share some (conspiracy-nut) theory based on something you do not understand and cannot prove, I read, I show you examples of what you might be missing - information gaps - that led you to believe in that rubbish... you read, or maybe you did not.. and you get upset. 🤷♂️😂
Education and learning is a 2-way street. I am not the one who cannot accept that someone has an alternate view. You are free to disagree with my input (of your input).
It is not my fault that what you thought were enlightened/original thoughts, are mostly what many others would term "conspiracy-nuts speak".
[5:53 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: In France, which is a much more open society than Singapore there rules on Unvax are strict. No public transport. No restaurants. No entry. The message is clear. You choose not to be vaccinated then you also choose no entry.
[5:55 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: It is you think what I read are not right. Not everyone. Even if I am wrong, REACH know there are people like me.
[5:57 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: Yes.
The number of hospitalisation needs derive by the unvaccinated disproportionately impose a big burden on the nation.
If this 77,000 are vaccinated and 3rd jab booster are roll out to those eligible - then we can go back to pre-pandemic.
[5:58 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Anyway please just share your views. So I know other views too.
[5:59 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: I know everyone here would like to end this pandemic ASAP, though we have different views.
[6:00 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Yes, I agree and wonder what the problem is. A few thousand people sure, there will always be some, but 5% is a very high number. Even if 10% of those have a medical condition that leaves 200,000+ across all ages that are refusing the vaccine.
[6:01 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Sure. I have acquaintances who are like you. Quite a few actually ....... so I am not surprised. What you all are sharing, is very similar. Q, Qanon, 4chan etc .... all "gems." 😂😂😂😂
We all usually have a good laugh.... sometimes we do our own sharing in response... every time, your kind gets upset 🤷♂️ 😂
[6:05 pm, 13/10/2021] +REACH: Record number of 96,000 people get financial aid from ComCare amid Covid-19
The number of individuals receiving financial aid from ComCare, a key social safety net for low-income Singaporeans, was the highest in its last financial year since it was set up in 2005.
More: https://str.sg/3qjD
[6:05 pm, 13/10/2021] +An fan: Not upset at all, miss you since you did not show up until 1 hour ago. I maybe even more childish than your acquaintances, then REACH can feedback to G too. Quite some people like me.
[6:06 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
That's why this differentiated measures have step on the pain toes of the unvaccinated.
Many will give up their misguided belief and get jabs.
And will reduce the needs to go hospitals.
And for those whose anti-bodies wane and get their 3rd booster jab - likely that hospitals needs for those vaccinated will also go down.
Then we will be ready to go endemic.
Now infection number still too high and hospitalisation number and death also too high.
Thus the last harden group will be the hardest to break through - but I think it pain them now - and we should see good vaccination results soon if government don't cave in.
[6:08 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
All these are undue financial burden on the nation and the people.
We can stand tough to resolve this once and for all - no matter what anti-vaxx people throw at us and the government.
Press on...
[6:15 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Yo Joseph sorry missed this reply, so many messages 😀
I think it's hard to compare, I suddenly thought about the example of an entire platoon willingly get punished because one soldier made a mistake, hahaha.
I was stepping back and thinking, infection is the danger, and vaxxed or not, spread still happens. People will die. On this, it's the similar in the sense, 1 is too many.
But I guess we have gone past controlling spread, to protecting health system.
It may be quite unfeasible to show (test result) on a daily basis, I'm just saying that whether one is infected or not is just as important as whether one is vaxxed or not.
In addition to my comment about vax status differentiation, well, aged people and those with underlying conditions are also high…
[6:17 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: I read an article FDA experts refrained from endorsing a 3rd booster. Didn't say why. Seemed counter intuitive and maybe different from the stand of WHO or other health authorities.
[6:19 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Israel finds COVID-19 vaccine booster significantly lowers infection risk.
Superhuman immunity acquire through 3rd booster.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-finds-covid-19-vaccine-booster-significantly-lowers-infection-risk-2021-08-22/
[6:19 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/covid-boosters-pfizer-says-israel-data-shows-third-shot-restores-efficacy-to-95percent.html
Pfizer says Israel data shows third Covid shot restores protection from infection to 95% as it makes case to FDA for boosters.
[6:19 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
3rd jab booster can bring the RT < 1 and R0 down significantly.
In other words, infection number and hospitalisation number can drop significantly with 3rd booster shot - as reveal by Israel data.
[6:20 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/moderna-covid-booster-fda-staff-doesnt-take-stance-says-two-doses-protect-against-severe-disease.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.tencent.xin.sharetimeline
[6:20 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Yah, just mentioning a different view I came across, for consideration.
[6:21 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: So, let Israel and FDA clarify for the benefit of all of us 😀
[6:26 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Maybe political. Many countries dont have enough for 1st dose let alone a 3rd.
[6:28 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Perhaps, US definitely does/will have enough though.
But I'd rather leave political agenda out of it cos it works both ways.
[6:30 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Sadly, often what different US news outlets say, must take with pinch of salt, another barrier to differentiating facts and viewpoints.
[6:31 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Due to the presence of differentiation - vaxxed or not -more “burden” would have to be borne by one group compared to the other.
Currently, the lesser of 2 evils is to place this “burden” on the smaller population of unvaxxed, in the hopes that the larger population will have to bear less of it.
Your proposal is to do the opposite? 😅 Cos there is currently no ideal situation that would allow both to be “unburdened”.
I don’t quite agree that “whether one os infected or not is not as important as whether one is vaxxed or not” since it is shown that it is not as dangerous to catch CV19 when you are vaxxed, compared to when unvaxxed.
I do agree with what someone else said, that the recent cases/data seems to show that the older folks, regardless of vaccination status are at high risk of falling seriously ill if infected. So maybe age, rather than vaccination status should be where we draw the lines. Also probably easier to implement.
[6:44 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Of course not opposite, I also agree and mentioned about elderly and underlying conditions as another risk group.
It occurs to me, your point does hint at something: The presence of differentiation.
How about the absence if it. I don't view it as it automatically means the burden shifts to the majority.
The past 1.5 years, we had good results, there was no differentiation.
More factors at play. Similary the latest surge isn't only due to absence of differentiation.
But differentiation in earlier guise was somehow palatable. When vaccination rate was lower.
So I prefer we can do without it.
[6:45 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: I mean in current guise, as severe as it is for unvaxxed group.
[6:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: 👍🏼
[6:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Stay safe everyone
[6:47 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: I think restricting the unvaccinated as such is quite extreme.
Does the Govt have a set target or must we achieve 100% vaccination rate?
I think it’s quite tiresome that restrictions just keep mounting on. Since the restrictions not only affect unvaccinated but vaccinated as well. Staff that need to perform checks etc. Families who are made of both parties..
If this is only for the short term to reach a reasonable goal I think it’s fine. But to drag out until 100% vaccination rate is overkill imo.
I think the fear of side effects may be real for some so.. e.g.I know someone who got really bad rashes from moderna vaccination. And now it’s been a few months and he still has rashes.
[6:48 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-herd-immunity-90-percent-2021-8
Getting to herd immunity will require 90% of people to be vaccinated against COVID-19, experts say
[6:50 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
For R0 = 9 like Delta variants, 100% vaccination is essential.
[6:52 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/11/french-study-vaccines-cut-covid-deaths
French study of over 22m people finds vaccines cut severe Covid risk by 90%.
[6:53 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore/90-eligible-population-will-be-fully-vaccinated-next-month
90% of eligible population will be fully vaccinated by next month
[6:53 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: The past 1.5yrs we had uniform restrictions and i think that in part is due to the lack of differentiation. Rightly so, since it took time for the number of vaccinated to increase.
Now that an overwhelming majority of the population is already vaccinated, it makes sense to consider differentiated measures. Why restrict the vaccinated as if they are unvaccinated? You can argue that we should treat the unvaccinated like the vaxxed, but that, is obviously higher risk, since the unvaxxed may be more vulnerable.
I am not arguing for differentiated measures. I am indifferent to G policy on this. i firmly believe that we should all be responsible for our own health at this advanced stage of the pandemic/almost endemic.
If left to me to decide, i would left th…
[6:53 pm, 13/10/2021] +Ben: Not sure i understand this: "Currently, the lesser of 2 evils is to place this “burden” on the smaller population of unvaxxed, in the hopes that the larger population will have to bear less of it. " What is the burden you are referring to and why is it less of a burden on the larger population?
[6:53 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
90% vaccinated not good enough.
Must reach 100% vaccination.
[6:54 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Merck pill coming .. 3rd booster available .. 5-12 probably can be safely vaccinated y by early next year… i think those are the milestones to watch for.
[6:54 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Government shack man
Earlier thought all the public service messages will be ok, target 85%, then delta throws curve ball. And we caught off guard with surge.
100% is impossible. Over 90% should be.
[6:55 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: Hopefully govt goal is not booster shot for everyone. I disagree with everyone getting a 3rd dose...
[6:55 pm, 13/10/2021] +CQ: it's a neverending shifting goalpost lor. 60% vax, then 80%, now 100%, still not good enough, need 3rd shot, maybe 4th, maybe 5th...
[6:55 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Well, I think annual booster was always on the table, all virus mutate...
[6:55 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: Have to follow the thread between ZC and I
[6:56 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Haha scrolling up, I also always very scared to think about this...
[6:56 pm, 13/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
My goal post never shift.
It is always 100% vaccination based on R0 = 9.
[6:56 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: no need to scroll .. just click/tap on the message.. it will bring you to what the reply is in relation to
[6:56 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: How Danny you will never be satisfied. 100% quite hard leh...
[6:57 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Yeah I think we quite each other each time
[6:57 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Quote
[6:57 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: R0 = 9 still holds the same even for vaccinated people?
[6:57 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Let's see how 90% does for us...
[6:58 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: The hypothesis was based on what factors and parameters?
[6:58 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: Lol
[6:58 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: That’s ur own message how’s that reliable
[6:58 pm, 13/10/2021] +Smiley face: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/unvaccinated-new-rules-malls-hawker-centres-covid-19-vaccine-2235856?cid=telegram_cna_social_28112017_cna
[6:59 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: Good, I'm just saying I think there are still people who are allergic to smallpox, so hard to get 100%. Practically 100% perhaps is what you mean.
[6:59 pm, 13/10/2021] +ZC: *allergic to smallpox vaccine
[6:59 pm, 13/10/2021] +Joseph: But briefly… the restrictions/reporting processes have been gradually lifted/simplified for the vaxxed population compared to previous months.
Some form still in place because obviously there will be the unvaxxed who do not agree and will flout the restrictions. So, more compliance from 1 group will allow less restrictions on the other.
[7:00 pm, 13/10/2021] +Angelica: Hopefully Govt can consider unvaccinated with medical exemptions...
[7:00 pm, 13/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
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