REACH 279 - Stabilisation Phase (since 27 Sep 2021). What are your thoughts on the high number of community cases? What additional precautions or lifestyle changes have you and your family taken to stay safe? (SK)
17 Sep 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:30 am, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
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[10:32 am, 04/10/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
At a press conference on 2 Oct (Sat), the Multi-Ministry Taskforce (MTF) noted that despite the current wave, which has seen more than 2,000 cases daily, 98 per cent of those infected had either mild symptoms or were asymptomatic.
The MTF said many of these cases were mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic, hence Home Recovery was possible. Home Recovery, among several other measures, is to ensure the healthcare system and healthcare workers are not overwhelmed, and can continue to care for the critically ill.
💬 It has been a week since we entered the Stabilisation Phase (since 27 Sep 2021). What are your thoughts on the high number of community cases? What additional precautions or lifestyle changes have you and your family taken to stay safe?
These updates come as the country gears up to tackle up to 5,000 cases a day, which MOH says could happen by mid-October. Finance Minister Lawrence Wong said that people should not get too anxious or fearful about the daily number of cases.
Urging for patience on reopening further, Minister Wong said: "Our overall strategy (for) reopening has not changed, but this is the first time we are experiencing such a big wave and it is causing tremendous stress on our healthcare system and our healthcare workers."
The MTF also revealed a suite of efforts which aim to boost our healthcare and response capacity to cope with the rising cases. These include ramping up the capacity at hospitals and treatment facilities, as well as the likely expansion of booster vaccination for more groups, such as healthcare workers, front-line workers and those in other vulnerable settings.
At the same time, vaccinated migrant workers with Covid-19 but no symptoms will also be able to recover in dedicated facilities in their dorms. Regular testing of migrant workers will also shift away from PCR tests to more self-administered but supervised ARTs.
At the press conference, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said that Covid-19 healthcare measures on what people should do will be streamlined and simplified, so that people can better remember and understand the protocols.
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/covid-19-healthcare-protocols-to-be-streamlined-and-simplified-ong-ye-kung
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/icu-capacity-to-be-ramped-up-covid-19-treatment-facilities-to-have-3700-beds-by-end-oct
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-could-see-5000-daily-covid-19-cases-by-mid-oct-but-most-will-have-no-or
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/vaccinated-migrant-workers-with-covid-19-but-no-symptoms-can-recover-in-dedicated
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[10:35 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: First make ART test kits more affordable. It should be in the affordable range (e.g. $1 per kit) that every person can afford to test 1 time daily, given it is to be self administered and can chalk up to test once daily.
[10:36 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: In this manner, home recovery and self detections can be more easily accessible by every one and measures to minimise the spreading rate can be more effective.
[10:37 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: If administering ART is $13 for each test, it won't be possible to have effective catch and minimize spread. The faster the person detects, the faster the person can take action to isolate, minimise contagion, and recover.
[10:38 am, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: +1
[10:41 am, 04/10/2021] +Caleb: +2
[10:42 am, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: personnally i feel again communication is going to mislead people with the recent "sooner or later everyone is going to get it" this will sure to setup some cracks in the society where people will start to ignore Home recovery / testing / masking ....
[10:43 am, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: +3
[10:43 am, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: the attention still should be not to overwhelm our healthcare system as is NOT exclusive to covid cases
[10:43 am, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: thus self and home reovery were introduction hoping to minimised load on healthcare and to prevent more social infection
[10:44 am, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: but to go about telling people ehh sonner later u will get also whats there to be shy about getting covid
[10:47 am, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: is like telling people i tell u A but infact no need do A since everyone will be the same zombies also in time to come,
[10:48 am, 04/10/2021] +RH: +4
[10:50 am, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: It is possible that at least some of the people who have tested positive and who are turning up at our hospitals with mild symptoms may have done so out of fear, causing unnecessary strain on our healthcare system. More effective messaging/communications from G/MOH is probably required to address this issue.
[10:51 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: Secondly, take more caution to protect those yet eligible to be vaccinated (i.e. below 12 years old). As mentioned before on the measures,
1. Identify all parents with children below age 12. Set that all working parents with children below age 12 to WFH by default even after 24 Oct, until the corresponding age group has vaccination protocol available in Singapore.
2. Provide more support for parents with children with infants and toddlers and preschool (age below 5). Increase childcare leave for this group of parents until vaccination is available to this group of children. This is because younger children are still building up their immunity system and are more susceptible to severe covid conditions.
3. Stop families with young children to dine in completely even after 24 Oct until vaccination for young children is available.
[10:53 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: For preschools, infant care and childcare, teachers are mandated to be vaccinated and perform ART every day (this is why ART costs must be made affordable).
[10:53 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: For primary schools, teachers are mandated to be vaccinated and perform ART every alternate day.
[10:54 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: For secondary schools and above, teachers are mandated to be vaccinated and perform ART at least once a week.
[10:54 am, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: All above can be revised once vaccination protocols for age 0 to 5 and age 6 to 11 are made available in singapore.
[11:43 am, 04/10/2021] +Anne: +5
[0:33 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Most serious illness, hospitalisation and death come from the elderly groups as well as adults who are unvaccinated.
2. Unless more efforts to get the elderly and adults to get vaccinated and elderly to get their booster shot.
3. We won't be solving the root cause of overwhelming the hospitals.
[0:54 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: TraceTogether 'not cleared' issue for Covid-19 home recovery patients to be resolved soon: Ong Ye Kung
People who have recovered from Covid-19 at home, but find that their TraceTogether app still shows they are "not cleared", will have this issue resolved in the next few days, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung in Parliament on Monday (Oct 4).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/tracetogether-not-cleared-issue-for-covid-19-home-recovery-patients-to-be-resolved
[1:11 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Despite all evidence showing children are at negligible risk, I do agree with this approach in order to reassure nervous parents. Same for the following comments about primary secondary kids. However I do not think WFH should be required, nor HBL.
[1:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Great to see this approach by government. It's exactly the right messaging and based on evidence and observation. Well done.
[1:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Good to see the facilites ramped up in anticipation of the increase in cases.
[1:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: I beg to differ. Coz the parents will be exposed to greater community infection when they take public transport or work in offices as the community cases rise. Once they are infected, who to care for the younger children? And if they are infected, they are most likely to pass to their children as they may be asymptomatic.
[1:41 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/2-month-old-baby-was-vomiting-like-the-merlion-before-she-was-diagnosed-with-covid 2-month-old baby was vomiting ‘like the Merlion’ before she was diagnosed with Covid-19.
[1:45 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
If no 100% vaccination, we are not out of the wood yet.
More efforts to get all elderly and adults Vaccinated first.
Then when children vaccines are ready, got to get the children vaccinated.
Then we are more ready to go endemic.
Now restrictive measures must still be in place.
[1:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Good question about how infected parents care for young children. What do the current guidelines say? Yes, children do get covid and usually get fever for a day or two from what I understand. They are not immune, and no parent wants their child sick of course. Maybe WFH should be optional for the next few months yes.
[1:46 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
WHO rate Singapore as very high Risk.
[1:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Great to see they all recovered so fast!
[1:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Are there any countries like Singapore considered low risk?
[1:50 pm, 04/10/2021] +Timothy Low: https://mothership.sg/2021/10/mother-ivermectin-hospital-church/
Perhaps authorities should take actions
[1:53 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: No quarantine and no testing when entering the UK if fully vaccinated. Although a test seems a small ask, and not requiring this seems reckless, it does make sense removing quarantine for fully vaxxed who do test negative.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/oct/04/englands-travel-traffic-light-system-replaced-and-testing-requirements-to-change?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
[1:55 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Very obvious that the government is trying the vaccination immunity + natural infection immunity to achieve the superhuman immunity - as we are currently described to be covid naive.
2. But the underlying foundation is that everyone must get full Vaccination.
3. Hence 100% vaccination must be the foundation.
4. Everyday, we see elderly and unvaccinated people die or hospitalised with serious illness.
5. Government must communicate what other strategy to get the elderly and unvaccinated adults get their full vaccination or booster.
6. Else our endemic goal will be a very remote goal
[2:00 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: 😱😨🤦♀️😔🤷♂️
[2:01 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ken Loh: 😡😡
[2:04 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/ivermectin-not-approved-treatment-covid-19-consumers-strongly-advised-not-self-medicate HSA added that it will take strong enforcement action against anyone who engage in the illegal sale and supply of medicines such as ivermectin.
Anyone convicted of the illegal sale of these medicines could be fined up to S$50,000 or jailed up to two years, or both, under the Health Products Act.
[2:06 pm, 04/10/2021] +Dr Farshad: Interesting to watch
[2:11 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Govt to announce decision on HBL extension for primary schools later this week
An announcement will be made later this week on whether home-based-learning (HBL) will be extended for primary schools, said Education Minister Chan Chun Sing.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/govt-to-announce-decision-on-hbl-extension-for-primary-schools-later
[2:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Please nooooooo!
[2:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: If there is a reason to continue HBL I hope they are clear why.
[2:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: It may be children cases being hospitalised are rising.
[2:17 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Let's see if there is information on that first.
[2:19 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/israel-will-require-a-booster-shot-to-be-considered-fully-vaccinated Israel 3rd booster shot - showing sign that they are curbing the Delta waves.
[2:20 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Don't worry .. if you really don't want your kids at home, you can always send them to school
[2:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: I just read a case about a girl 15 who died from covid just 4 days after diagnosis. As a parent this strikes me with fear, and my instinct is to keep my kid home and away from everyone. I am not insensitive, and do understand how anxious a time this is
[2:22 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Thanks, this doesn't apply to me as we are both WFH, but good to see there is an option for parents who need it
[2:22 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: but obviously not enough to want to keep the kids at home 😂
[2:23 pm, 04/10/2021] +KS Foong: Where is this news come from?
[2:23 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Well, I try to be rational too. This is the point. We cannot allow Covid to keep out kids locked up at home for months and months.
[2:24 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: So.... you just don;t want your kids at home 🤔
[2:25 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Israel 3rd booster shot - decrease infection number by 54%.
Hospitalisation number also decreasing.
This should be the statistics we should be seeing to determine if we are ready for endemic.
Hence 100% vaccination must be our resolve and our goal.
Failing which crying for endemic is premature.
Even WHO and world won't believe us even if we declare endemic.
We must do the hard stuff back up by statistics.
[2:25 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/johor-confident-of-meeting-90-covid-19-inoculation-target-by-end-october "Now, though we are quite worried about the number of cases in Singapore, which has increased to 2,000 cases a day, we will still continue discussions with Singapore (for the border reopening)," Johor said.
[2:26 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Even Johor is wary of us
[2:26 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: It is upsetting to read, be warned.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/02/portsmouth-teenager-dies-of-covid-on-day-she-was-due-to-get-vaccine?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
[2:26 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore’s coronavirus cases could reach 10,000 a day in next two weeks.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEHcey4s1A7-x_tZvgN0aMyoqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMLuzxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
[2:26 pm, 04/10/2021] +KS Foong: I search around for this news, no way i can find it from recognised source!
[2:27 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
HK report that we are out of control.
Even we declare endemic, other countries won't believe us - and won't endemic with us.
[2:27 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: COVID is not keeping the kids in. Its the adults. So if YOU feel that its safe for your kids to be out, then just do it. Ultimately, we are responsible for our own risk assessment and actions. HBL is an alternative for those who do not want to take the risk of their kids catching CV19.
[2:27 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: I want kids to get their education, social activity, exercise and not to live in fear. The reality is that risk of illness and death is almost negligible. I have met many kids and parents who had covid for a day or two. That's the context of this.
[2:27 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Really?
[2:29 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: then get in touch with like-minded parents/kids and make your own arrangements. HBL does not stop u from doing that
[2:29 pm, 04/10/2021] +KS Foong: Someone just sent a link. It is not a local case. It happened in the UK.
[2:29 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Yes, and I support freedom of choice for the parents. As I said, it's understandable parents are worried and keeping HBL is a good thing for those who want it.
[2:29 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ken Loh: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3094965/
[2:30 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: I didn't mention it was a local case. Is that relevant?
[2:30 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-cdc-says-travel-warning-on-hong-kong-was-made-in-error US raise HK alert in error but maintain alert level for Singapore.
[2:30 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Yes I sent the link.
[2:30 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: agree, in the end whatever advisory is given there is and repeat there is NO existing law / regulation that states humans in singapore must stay home. The unwell of cos have to stay home but the rest is up to your own decision and responsibilities. The bottom line which many fail to admit is once u are out HAVE TO be Socially responsible and for your own actions
[2:31 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: If HBL is optional then fine. I think we keep agreeing.
[2:31 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: else why are we still seeing life as normal for many -> joggers, cyclist, kids at playground, people going to work, etc
[2:31 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Even US raise our alert level.
So the world is not ignorance.
They will monitor our statistics and rate us accordingly.
We declare endemic is immaterial to them.
Other countries won't believe us and endemic with us if our number goes out of control.
[2:32 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: in fact to certain extend it seems a large percentage of people had already given up hope of the numbers
[2:32 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: How are joggers and cyclists related to HBL?
[2:32 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: people are going about still hopefully being socially responsible ....
[2:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Boon: +1
[2:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Quite obviously, there is a majority of parents who prefer to err on the side of caution during this period, and have accepted that certain sacrifices are in order eg. socialising and outdoor activities for the kids will require more effort/planning.
For those who prioritise social interaction over safety accorded by HBL, there is the option to send your kids to school.
As for play/outdoor time, that is still dependent on your schedule unless your kids are somehow enrolled in some outdoor/adventure school that spends all the time outside.. otherwise during this period, most PE and CCA are anyway suspended even without HBL
[2:38 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. So we must do things right and go back to basics.
Declaring endemic when we are not ready do more harm to us than good - because if our infection number and hospitalisation number and death keep going up - the world is not going to believe us even if we declare endemic.
The world won't endemic with us - and will keep us out.
2. Get our basic right.
3. Get unvaccinated elderly and adults people vaccinated.
4. Give booster shot for those who need it.
Study the outcome of Israel 3rd booster shot.
And if the result is good and safe - we have to emulate.
4. Get children vaccinated when the vaccines is ready.
5. Achieve 100% vaccination.
6. Only then we will be able to see the infection number, hospitalisation number and death go down.
7. Then we can declare endemic.
Only then the world will believe us and endemic with us.
8. Else our endemic war cry sounds very hollow - as the world won't believe us.
[2:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: then get in touch with like-minded parents/kids and make your own arrangements. HBL does not stop u from doing that
[2:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: and interaction is mostly limited to small groups/"social bubbles" whether in class or during break times
[2:45 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/time-to-live-again-in-copenhagen-denmark-moves-into-post-covid-19-mode Time to live again in Copenhagen: Denmark moves into post-Covid-19 mode. In the subway station behind the airport exit, the travellers tear their masks off. There are about 60 people in the carriage. Only one passenger keeps his mouth guard on.
[2:48 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Denmark can declare themselves endemic because their infection number, hospitalisation number and death keep going down with high vaccination rate.
The world believe Denmark because all their statistics reflect they are ready for endemic.
Our all vital number keep going up and we war cry for endemic - no one in the world believe us.
Until and unless we keep the number down in sanity. Then we can war cry for endemic - and the world will believe us.
[2:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: thus till the day we can control and show the numbers are constantly low at an agree or set treshold, endemic shoudl not be on our lips socially .... but guess it started on the wrong footing
[2:52 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: Yes.
[2:53 pm, 04/10/2021] +Timothy Low: For our case our case numbers will go down eventually.
[2:53 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Outcome determine we are ready for endemic or not.
Not our lips.
[2:55 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Their vaccination rare is lower than ours. I don't see why tearing off masks on the train is good, although for large spaces outdoors they seem unnecessary. Maybe we could move to not requiring masks in parks and beaches, only indoors and along pavements.
[3:01 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: I do think the G/MOH needs to re-think their messaging.
First decide - based on science/data - if Singapore has achieved Endemic or not. We are way past being cautious and hedging both sides. We have been arguing and shifting stance for almost 2yrs now, and everyone is fatigued. Its time to pick a side.
If the decision is that we are confident of what is to come with "Endemic-living", then shift the messaging accordingly. Give everyone the confidence that should the situation deteriorate (which is most likely going to be the case), the G/MOH is ready for it. Which means no backtracking just because daily infection numbers hit 5000.
Convince everyone that you (G/MOH) really know what you are doing eg. expect the rise in daily cases, but show us (if that is the truth) that most (90%?) of cases are mild; unvaccinated kids recover quickly with no long-term effects (99.9%?); vaccinated and recovered patients gain hybrid immunity etc
If the decision - again science/data based - is that its not the time to declare victory yet, then say so. CLEARLY.
Identify milestones and deadlines for everyone to look forward to. Then, keep to it unless significant discoveries along the way mandate a change.
Just remember, people will judge whether your decisions are to save your career or to save the people. And we/they will let you know what we/they think of it when GE next comes around.
[3:04 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
2 ways we can go endemic:-
1. Natural infection immunity + vaccinated immunity = superhuman immunity.
(Denmark and Norway do this with many death) - now they can endemic.
2. Israel and Singapore do vaccinated immunity + booster or Natural infection Immunity.
(Less death) - only when all vital number go down then we can endemic.
Watch out for Israel outcome - I think their trajectory is going very well.
So we must achieve 100% vaccination plus booster.
And if the number turn out well - we can declare endemic.
[3:04 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Longer waiting times as Singapore's healthcare capacity impacted by recent 'exponential rise' in Covid-19 cases: Janil
Senior Minister of State for Health, Dr Dr Janil Puthucheary, cited this as an example of how the recent "exponential rise" in Covid-19 cases in Singapore has impacted the country's healthcare capacity.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/longer-waiting-times-as-singapores-healthcare-capacity-impacted-by-recent
[3:06 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: https://youtu.be/_ItkYhFiGBI
Let s follow Norway
[3:07 pm, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: And this must include the younger children vaccination as well.
[3:08 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes. 100% vaccination including the whole population (including the children).
[3:10 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Over 11,000 firms sign up for antigen rapid test kits from Government
4,200 companies have already received the kits and the rest will get theirs later this week as Singapore transits to being a Covid-19 resilient nation, amid a high vaccination rate.
These free kits, which are provided to eligible employees who work on-site, will help them test themselves weekly over a two-month period.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/over-11000-firms-sign-up-for-antigen-rapid-test-kits-from-government
[3:11 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Yes, but I wonder if this has got to do with people being overly fearful because of the official message about CV19.
Not suggesting that CV19 is like the common flu, but using it as an example, most people will just pop a pill and stay home to rest. We only go to the doctor if the symptoms persist/worsen.
Is it time to start reinforcing the message that not all positive cases require an immediate trip to the clinics/hospitals?
Will providing clearer guidelines, for example what kind of symptoms to look out for; age (maybe?); certain underlying ailments, etc, for when someone should head to the clinic/hospital for assistance?
[3:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: If it's not time to do so, then, please explain why not (children below 12 not vaccinated?) and pen in a tentative deadline/event (Merck oral medication? Vaccination approval for children >12?) so we all have a common objective/deadline to look forward to.
[3:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Excellent thinking, very well put!
[3:18 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Yes agreed. Positive test results alone do not require trips to hospitals. Base the trip to hospital on symptoms. Even a slight fever can be treated at home.
[3:19 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: Personally I’m not alarmed or scared of the high number of cases but covid is coming closer to home for me. For the past year none of my family/friends/colleagues have gotten covid but recently one of my friends got covid.
As for my family, they are worried about the case numbers and do find it quite scary as they consider themselves to be part of the vulnerable group.
Since the start of the covid thing my whole family in general was already quite cautious so we haven’t taken any further precaution as we do already minimise social interaction and obey mask wearing rules etc.
I see some opinions here that things should be made mandatory. E.g vaccination or WFH for parents with young kids.
While there are situations where wfh (e.g circuit breaker or heig…
[3:19 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: This is very important yes. A common clear goal that the community understands and see progress towards. We had that with vaccination rates before National Day and it worked.
[3:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Yes, personal responsibility is an important part of the solution.
[3:26 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/hong-kong-overtakes-us-in-covid-19-vaccinations-after-slow-start
Hong Kong overtakes US in Covid-19 vaccinations after slow start.
Hong Kong joins a raft of others in Asia, including Singapore, mainland China, Cambodia, Malaysia and Japan, that started later but are now outperforming the US in protecting against the virus.
[3:28 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Many Asia countries following Israel and Singapore way of endemic.
That's vaccinated immunity + natural infection immunity or booster = superhuman immunity.
Not the other way - use by Denmark and Norway (with more death).
Singapore is not there yet.
[3:30 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
For people fully immunised with Sinovac Biotech’s Covid-19 vaccine, adding a Pfizer/BioNTech booster shot may yield greater protection than a third Sinovac dose, new research from Turkey suggests.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKFnsIyjUgfy1wpkp-XCUDsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMNvwrAU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
[3:31 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
For those who take 2 Sinovac shots - Turkey experience is to get Pfizer-BioNTech or moderna vaccines as the booster 3rd shot to be effective.
[3:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Actually this sounds just like hydrid-immunity that was cited in earlier studies...
mRNA augmented with immunity gained from encountering the virus
Since SinoVac is based on inactivated virus tech, the immune response is similar (and safer) to someone who caught CV19 "naturally"?
[3:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: had been asking this around but no official word aka mrna shots can combine with non mrna? for locally
[3:35 pm, 04/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: 🤷
[3:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: Parents won't be able to decide wfh because it depends on employers. Govt step in becoz they can mandate employers to get their eligible employees to wfh.
[3:36 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: 0.5 per cent of those vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer were infected with Covid-19: Ong Ye Kung
Around 0.5 per cent of those who have been fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been infected with Covid-19, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said on Monday (Oct 4).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/05-per-cent-of-those-vaccinated-with-moderna-or-pfizer-were-infected-with-covid
[3:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: So maybe, MOH should (assuming not already) study the possibility of a booster with the aim of achieving hybrid immunity? ie. mRNA vaccinated persons to take a SinoVac booster and vice versa.
[3:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +65 9830 3652: I'm thinking of Novavax
[3:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Probably works as long as it is inactivated virus tech based
[3:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: Wonder why there are so many cases recently. Self detected? because each household got 6 test kits? and test requirements going to work? Most are asymptomatic right? Or they feel something wrong then test positive?
[3:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Trace Together
[3:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: and availability of self test kit
[3:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: 1 person in the household test positive, the rest test regardless of asymptomatic or not
[3:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: and then close contacts of those close contacts
[3:43 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: seems most are asymptomatic
[3:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: But all along we use TraceTogether. How come the cases numbers jump so much? The test kits give fause alarm or not? Maybe common flu only?
[3:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: in the beginning people are more cautious .. over time, fatigue and over/false-confidence creeps in ...
[3:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: it is definitely not a "common flu" yet
[3:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: and .. this is the delta variant
[3:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: which has a much higher transmission rate than the "original" strain
[3:50 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: in general i believe the ground got many are waiting to hear such news mrna + no mrna regardless of brands
[3:57 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: There is no outbreak at any restaurants or aircon dining places right? And no school mass infection either?
[3:58 pm, 04/10/2021] +Caleb: +1
[4:01 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: how does a restaurant and school without SMM, differ from a workers dorm?
[4:02 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: they don't/ Thats why we know that if there are no SMM in place, there would have been outbreaks arising from restaurants, aircon dining places and schools. You seem to have forgotten about the Jurong Fishery Port cluster, or the wet market clusters etc ...
[4:04 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: I mean if restaurants and schools can cope well then we can still have 5 people dining there and no need home based learning. School can open as usual.
[4:04 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: It's not about the "place" but how people normally interact in those places versus the transmission mechanism of the CV19 viurus
[4:07 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Not sure Why still MOH not changing their strategy!
I am feeling like
After this PSLE
They might announce CB !!
(I hope i am wrong)
[4:07 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: Wet market sometimes there is almost no social distancing at all. Very difficult to control. I go to wet market twice a week. Only the Q to make payment has 1 meter distance.
[4:09 pm, 04/10/2021] +Caleb: https://str.sg/3qJ3
Hospital breaking down liai
[4:09 pm, 04/10/2021] +Caleb: Liai
[4:09 pm, 04/10/2021] +Caleb: Liao
[4:09 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: maybe because the community numbers are already rising and from recent past experience, we can predict that if things are left status quo, that will be where new clusters/outbreaks will arise from?
[4:09 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Testing testing testing
Is definitely WRONG APPROACH
Those who needs attention they might not be receiving, and in the end we might see What happend overseas!!
(PEOPLE DIED AT HOME)
deffinatly MUST STOP THEOR MISTAKE
[4:10 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: And you have been doing that unvaccinated, unmasked and unaffected? or have you taken your own preventive measures?
[4:10 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: So instead of CB
Might even announcr total lock down!!
If this rate goes on..
[4:10 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: have you tested yourself with the ART kit?
[4:11 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: seems we have 2 worlds now
[4:12 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: one that ok with testing and current
[4:12 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: one that do not agree with testing and wants cb
[4:12 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: if the day comes with no testing and numbers are still climbing will the society shut up and carry on
[4:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: the reason why the govt want testing is is to curb known infection in the socity
[4:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Test ONLY THOSE WITH SYMPTOMS
[4:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: No need to test Asymptotic
[4:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ken Loh: Unlikely.. tighten only bah…
CB will bleed more money tighten give lesser
[4:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: is to instill responsibility (socially) once u are with a close contract or have received the warning
[4:13 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Just because they are under QO
[4:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: dun test can every one just affect each other cos is not written on the forhead i am infected
[4:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: trust me
If they can not handle situation ASAP
In emergency manner
Many elderly will end up serious infection.
(Regardless of vaccine)
[4:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: the mad rush now is because the system was not gear for this big response
[4:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: thus is very impt people should news and procedure
[4:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: No point test and keep Jamming the MOH Work
And those really need Attention
Left behind!!
[4:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ken Loh: As long as ICU can handle this will go on.
Just poor medical workers 😔
[4:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Deffinatly not the way
[4:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: we can keep complaining but despite effort by the govt to spelt out the correct communication ecause people are not reading it
[4:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: 👍
[4:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: What about these elderly (as per above shared article)
3 days waiting for MOH call to admitt the elderly..
Their situation might suddenly worsen!
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: ultimately, the measures are also to protect the biz owners ... I have noticed quite a few popular restaurants in my area that are closed for biz today and I suspect it is because there were patrons who tested positive. G only requires the restaurant to close for a day to conduct deep cleaning, but the restaurant/wait staff will have to self-isolate/QO (for 10 days?)... can you imagine if there were no enhanced SMM in place, and the many OTHER PATRONS, unknowingly would have visited many more restaurants/shops/etc before being notified/identified as close contacts...and then a % of these will definitely be positive cases.. can you imagine how many more restaurants would have to close?
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ken Loh: ICU number don’t seems to increase as patient just die 😅
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +RH: Ther r mass infections in schools, just not reported.
Either u dun hv children of school going age or do not know of any.
Infections in adults tt cause their whole family to be in QO, or students themselves getting it from family members.
Then whole class is told to test & get SHN.
Tt is wat led to HBL.
I know becoz I m in touch w the industry.
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: I am deffinatly not complaining
I am cautioning
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: share this to all your friends that will clam their fear (but is only for the tech save, at least from my view) the oldies will need help
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: covid.gov.sg
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: i got this from another group and i think is not bad
[4:16 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: at least it tell me not to do certain things an to do certain things
[4:17 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Testing every one every day is definitively wrong
[4:17 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: also certain FB pages like mothership have come out a chart.. can use the chart for reference as well
[4:18 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Even 3 or 4 weeks HBL i am OK with it
Whether you believe or not from past 1 year plus Never ATE OUTSIDE (just grab food tapao only)
I am extremely cautious those who are reading my chat from padt year.. they know.. (my girl who has asthma yet to get vaccine... As not 12 yet..!)
So i am always mor cautious
[4:18 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: certain group of people will have to test every day but to ask the society as a while to test every day i think is overkill lah seriously .. you pocket so big to buy all the ART?
[4:20 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: but again the word of communication from the task force have to be right and direct
[4:20 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: dun mislead people or may people guess more
[4:20 pm, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes certain group of people will have to test everyday. But at least everyone should test once a week? That is why ART should be made more affordable.
[4:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: den that where some people are saying to stop testing ... so to test or not to test hahahaha
[4:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: so the number will look pretty like what vietnam is doing
[4:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: we cannot have the cake and eat it all for this situation
[4:24 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: I wear mask of course. I try to keep distance from people at wet market. If there are too many people I just leave. Every noon I walk a while under the sun if there is sunshine. If someone one cough or sneeze nearby I will hold my breath and quickly walk away. And I keep wiping all handles I may touch at office and lifts’ buttons too, this is a habit developed more than 15 years ago after I saw someone didn’t wash hands after coming out from washroom. I have not tested yet. My daughter just tested this morning. Negative of course.
[4:27 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: frankly my take to test: house hold to test per week (good for check) / close contact have to art daily even for care taker of the infected / people who cannot work from home due to occupation matters alternative days of testing (this is infect a very dangerous group since they are out in the open on nearly daily where can be a carrier or to be carrier
[4:27 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: the break point is after testing people must know what to do ...... which i think MOH is ramping up the resources and messages .......
[4:28 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Yday also i shared..
Not spamming
One final time will ne sharing
1. Change the approch of HRP nad HQO
2. Do not get Tested Unless There is symptoms
3. When mild symptoms just allow them to visit Pharmacies /GPs and get medication (Govt should provide free Medicine for poor)
4.when to Rush to emergency give clear instructions to pharmacies/GPs.
Equip people how to use Oxymeter, especially those who unable to read and follow instructions.
5. Give attention to all elederly with even mild symptoms can not wait 3 days, as Infection might suddenly cause severe illness (check overseas data you know what i am talking about)
4. For children and infants and pregant woman Open separte channel to give assurance, even with mild symptoms this group need Strong support via tele doctor.
5. Do NOT ASK even the Infected To test EVERYDAY. This is Really ridiculous way
As it ADDS ON STRESS to the Patient who is recovering or Quarrentine at home.
I heard PCR too hard on children, so Only test PCR for children who are having Symptoms. ART is good enough. That too not every day please
5. Most important Tele doc availability seems Very hard to get. First increase that support.
If can not just open Pharmacies for the people to seek help.
6. Not getting through MOH line/no tele doc/ no instructions/ no answers by Gov agencies can PANIC those infected. That's precisely i am saying DO not test if no symptoms.
If unable to handle cases, it's ok to take A PAUSE. I don't think Singapore goes Hungry By locking down For few days (deffinatly NOT)
might suffer GDP. Its ok
As long as lives are intact. And deaths are less.
[4:30 pm, 04/10/2021] +Anne: An unvaccinated friend of mine found a new job some time back as a piano teacher. As she would be teaching young children she had to do ART test 2x a week. Her employer, a music school, just had a piano teacher resign because she was unvaccinated and refused to do the 2x a week ART test due to the high cost (piano teachers don’t earn that much), so she resigned. My friend then declined the position - same reason. My friend cannot work full time as she is looking after her children and is also a part time caregiver to her elderly parents. As she cannot afford the ART tests, she chose to remain unemployed even though she needed the money. So it would be good for the G to change the testing to, say, once a week, or lower the cost of the ART test kits. It’s a pi…
[4:30 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: MOH and SAF ironing out ‘teething issues’ with Home Recovery Programme: Ong Ye Kung
The issues include timeliness of notification and conveyancing, and improving communications, he said, in response to parliamentary questions on the home recovery programme (HRP).
More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-home-recovery-programme-ong-ye-kung-2219846
[4:31 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: And to Go with Endemic stage this strategy is a must
EVEN if 100% Vaccination happend
Because simple even with vaccines we can get infected.!
[4:32 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Some employers ask employees to test every day if they come to the office
[4:33 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Good to know that you have always been more cautious than what G/MOH prescribed.
So try to understand that the guidelines are the "minimum/baseline" for people who are not like you. Who do not self regulate when there are no guidelines and actually look at the restrictions and see lines that should be circumvented/crossed.
[4:33 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: if the policy set in mah for this period staff who needs to go to the office will have to art test before going in since default is work from home
[4:33 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: This is what another Big mistake to go with endemic!!
Deffinatly not this way!
Testing People who are asympotamatic even after fully vaccinated..
Infact cause more stress and Panic than What Covid can cause.
[4:33 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: As I said before if it is endemic we have to follow Norway
Stop tracing stop wearing mask stop testing
[4:33 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: oo sorry that is for ad hoc going to the office
[4:33 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Can not
stop wearing madk
[4:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: so assume if a person have to go in ad hoc tuesday to thursday den hahahah art lor
[4:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Mask is Compoulsory.
[4:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: stop wear mask , stop tracing . stop testing
[4:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: hahahahah get ready for more infection and death only
[4:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: already now it cause panic already
[4:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: well if really wan near endmeic ruling
[4:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: why not look at china
[4:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: (disclaimer i not sure what is going to happen after this week) but currently they are travelling in their annual masses again life is so call normal again
[4:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +RH: Govt to announce decision on HBL extension for primary schools later this week
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/govt-to-announce-decision-on-hbl-extension-for-primary-schools-later
[4:36 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: So it is not endemic
[4:36 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: The government has a narrative problem
[4:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Did we wear mask for the flu?
[4:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +RH: Many households affected... With home recovery, students in affected households ultimately also get drawn in... No need to go to school to get infected. 🤦🏼♀️
[4:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: den i ask is covid a flu?
[4:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: they might belong to the same family but is of different purpose
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: can i say a cough is similar to tb?
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I think this could be the desired end goal. Still an endemic, but it's a work in progress.
I think mask and testing will be the last to go
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes this is will be grave mistake
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry no medical experts here
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Parliament: Home recovery programme didn't start well but 'things are improving day by day' - Health Minister Ong Ye Kung
Singapore's home recovery programme (HRP) was not fully ready to deal with the surge in Covid-19 patients, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said in Parliament on Monday (Oct 4).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/parliament-home-recovery-programme-didnt-start-well-but-things-are-improving-day-by
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +RH: Yup.
Identified as 'close contact' ?
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: final puzzle is till we globally know how this work there is no endemic
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: like UK
[4:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: infect yoyo every day death rates too
[4:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: but is endemic
[4:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: usa too is call endemic but they are are not socially dangerous ? but singapore is ... duh
[4:40 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: i think putting a human now in eu or us have a higher change to get infected then here in singapore (cos we got personnel smm in place)
[4:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: i think you are missing the point of the test.
The test is not to punish or force someone to vaccinate. It is to protect OTHERS.
Especially in the case of your friend who is going to be in close contact with young children who are unvaccinated.
Let's put it this way, I will never send my child to any school/enrichment class where the teacher is not vaccinated regardless of how frequently the teacher/school may claim an ART is done.
To me its very simple. Most people who are eligible, but refuse to be vaccinated are also the same ones who will avoid testing and/or are overconfident of their ability to counter the virus.
So even if your friend were hired, she will probably also not get any students once the parents find out she is unvaccinated.
[4:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Why i am saying No testing for asymptomatic is, precisely not Stress the Health care sysmptom
Those who need care Need to focus on them.
And world is yet to reach Endemic
Deffintaly not so soon.
So it will be A grave mistake to take SMM/Mask mrasures.
These must be in place.
Just stop testing Asymptomatic.
Amd stop asking people to submitt ART everyday.
Trust me half of the Moh calls will reduce.
And they also can open up Mobile clinics
Especially where the number of Infections
High.
(But must be in open air area, not an aircon/closed room)
[4:43 pm, 04/10/2021] +RH: R u sure?
I m reading loads of backlash on Telegram QO Support grp tt has > 20k subscribers, 10% of whom r active in tt chat.
Situation varies case by case but mostly seems to be left on their own, unable to get the help MOH promised.
MOH is overwhelmed, unable to cope w the rising cases in home recovery.
Tt is the impression I'm getting.
Ther r also not enuff MOH staff in tt Telegram grp to advise / assist all the queries.
REACH... Pls take note & look into it.
[4:44 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Europe has stopped wearing mask and life is back to normal
[4:44 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Why Singapore can not?
[4:44 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Because some in the MTF are still looking to the 0 case policy
[4:44 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: The Government narative is inconsistent
[4:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Thomas: https://sg.yahoo.com/news/zealand-admits-no-longer-rid-064915677.html
[4:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: this lady is an extremist covid
[4:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: SAF has came in now, I think things will get better👍🏻👍🏻
[4:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Thomas: Even the strictest country finallly admit . Have to live with virus with current vaccination
[4:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I don't think MTF is going with a zero covid policy though. That's not the impression I'm getting
[4:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: if it s endemic go back to 2019 lifwe
[4:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: life
[4:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: For me more simple
Almost
Whole this year
Despite my girl PSLE year
I have Never took Lessons at center
(Some even i paid for whole semestet..i let go
As they saif no online lessons)
I opted only ONLINE lessons.
Includimg piano. Precisely because Even teacher is vaccinated, we do not about other childten family !
Those children mighy be asymptomatic/family infected and still spread to Teacher.
So only half danger is solved by asking teacher to test.
But if Unvaccinated despite the eligibility i dont even allow even friends to enter my house.
[4:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Because they are yet to live NORMAL
Normal is when is neglible death rate.
And also need to wait 3months to declare that Normal!
Lets wait and watch
[4:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Curious this! Singapore has a disproportionately high number of new cases compared our vaccination rate. Very odd considering we have more restrictions in place as well.
[4:49 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: I can only assume those other countries have a Herd Immunity level that means they are not getting new cases.
[4:49 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly
I am reading as well.
Thats the reason
I told the current Strategy went wrong!
[4:49 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Agreed
[4:50 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Those who are saying
Open up open up
Kindly read the chat
And Understand people frustration in that group.
Very sad state.
Those who requird attention also unable to get 😟
[4:50 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: This is true. I'm here and see very little covid concern.
[4:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I think it's also because of our population density. That could be one potential reason
[4:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: the government is following the Israel playbook
[4:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Soon booster will be generalized
[4:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: agreed, same here.
[4:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Simple
They dont test asymptomatic
As you are there you can find out more details and share with us
[4:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Israel will require a booster shot to be considered fully vaccinated
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/israel-will-require-a-booster-shot-to-be-considered-fully-vaccinated
[4:52 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Yes, by country that is probably the case.
[4:52 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I agree with this, hence I fully support the current tightening of measures for govt to sort things out for now.
Hopefully now with SAF help things get better, plus rampint up of healthcare facilities, we can try to open up once again
[4:52 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: It's not related to test numbers. It's a % of those tested. More tests doesn't mean a higher percentage.
[4:54 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: Maybe we will in future. We should.
[4:55 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: we need to build stronger imunne system not over protect ourselves
[4:55 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Singaporean should messed up with bacteria from young
[4:56 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: I was thinking that wearing a mask should be done by the person who is already ill. Not people who are well.
[4:57 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: But it’s easier for everyone to wear mask as people may not comply with that
[4:58 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ben: We really need to get to personal responsibility. Asking the whole country to always wear a mask because a few people might have flu and not wear their masks is not going to be acceptable.
[4:58 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Agree
But this is not the right time for this approch
[4:59 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: Sorry didnt get it.
I am bad at maths (between i hv ZERO idea why and what Helen and Ivan did😃)
[5:00 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: By right as long as one is sick shld wear mask but our asia culture have no such practise... The best we do cover ur mouth but still now many sneeze or cough into the air all these while😀
[5:01 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: Too late our kids are very disconnected with nature.. no more sand at playgrd, no more drain catching fish, no more tree climbing etc hahahha
[5:01 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: This is Deffinatly not thr Right time to discuss about removing mask regulation.
Please la everyday people dying :(
[5:02 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: Singaporeans have low imune system because they are scared of bacteria and lived their all life with wet tissues
[5:03 pm, 04/10/2021] +Ah Heng: and before covid already with hand sanitizer hahahahahaha
[5:05 pm, 04/10/2021] +Laurent: All bad things to do
[5:24 pm, 04/10/2021] +Elena Woo: Why she doesn't want to get vaccinated?
[5:28 pm, 04/10/2021] +Suma pamu: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/icu-bed-occupancy-rises-53-amid-exponential-rise-covid-19-cases-2219831?cid=FBcna
[5:28 pm, 04/10/2021] +Thomas: I believe the company should provide the ART and not staffs.
[5:34 pm, 04/10/2021] +Smiley face: Decision on HBL extension for primary schools to be known later this week
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/govt-to-announce-decision-on-hbl-extension-for-primary-schools-later
[5:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: Do people wear masks properly? And do they change mask every 4 hours or wear whole day long? I see people put mask on their arm while eating then put on again after eating. We may have standby masks just in case it drops or you wear it more than 4 hours or you are too close with someone coughing or sneezing.
[5:36 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: ? I dont understand where ur coming from. The point I was making was that if we say that only sick people wear mask, people who are mildly sick etc might not obey. So its safer when everybody is wearing mask.
[5:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +An fan: Yeah you are right. Everyone needs to wear.
[5:37 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: Those in the unarmed security industry have to wear one mask per twelve hour shift
[5:38 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I think this is to disincentivise those who do not wish to be vaccinated. It's a carrot and stick concept. Personally, though harsh, I think the stick should be given to the individual, not the company, because it's the individual's choice
[5:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: Agree with this👍🏻 easier and more practical enforcement
[5:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: For business to thrive, personal choice holds no ground
[5:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: Yup, hence i don't think companies should pay for the individual's choice to not be vaccinated, but the individual pays for his/her choice.
[5:41 pm, 04/10/2021] +Smiley face: New Zealand abandons strategy of eliminating Covid-19
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/new-zealand-extends-auckland-covid-19-lockdown-but-eases-some-curbs
[5:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I know someone who initially didn't wanna be vaccinated, but after the VoRT strategy came out she decided to just do it because too troublesome otherwise
[5:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: If don't pay, no job
[5:43 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: (although she felt cheated cos she thought no need swab but in the end she also kena RRT🤣🤣)
[5:44 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: Freedom of choice thrown to the wind
[5:50 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Hmmm,,, because in Europe, the people have zero respect for their elected leaders. The situation here is slightly different.... most Singaporeans have common sense
[5:51 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: That’s not true for germany. They still wear mask indoors.
[5:57 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Australia and New Zealand's Covid strategy is purely based on isolation because their vaccine take-up rate is low.
Does not take a genius to know that this is unsustainable, especially when other major economies open up.
[5:58 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Foreign interference one of the most serious threats faced by S'pore; law considered for over 3 years: Shanmugam
Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam on Monday (Oct 4) described the covert escalation of foreign interference tactics targeting Singapore's multicultural make-up as one of the most serious threats faced by the Republic, with its people remaining largely oblivious to the dangers.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/foreign-interference-one-of-the-most-serious-threats-faced-by-spore-law
[6:04 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Masks will most likely still feature prominently. Again, do not need the G/MOH to mandate the wearing of masks, but simply by exercising common sense and consideration for others, just like HK post Sars.
[6:05 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: probably can be explained by our high test rate
[6:10 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: +1 reminds me of my NS days, when the most advanced weapons/equipment - which I never knew we had until then - are suddenly displayed for the benefit of the inspectors scoring us for the annual Best Combat Unit competition.
Spoken like one who surveys the ground from the Ivory tower ....
[6:12 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: I think the issue is not that nobody believes that in Europe, they are behaving like there is no pandemic ... the question is, SHOULD WE?
[6:14 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: hmm isnt this maybe because we have kept such a tight lid compared to the other countries where many of the people were already infected hence they have developed immunity and do not get infected again. This immunity is probably stronger than getting vaccinated. Furthermore we have more rigirous testing that most of these countries and hence catch more cases.
Also singapore is much more densely populated than most of these countries as we are a city state. hence the virus spreads faster.
With this new delta variant it is also much more contagious. I saw in a CNA documentary that 1 sneeze from someone infected with alpha releases 1 million viral particles compared to delta varient, 10 million viral particles. Furthermore dela variant usually is only dormant for 1-2 days compared to alpha varient 5-10 days. Hence the virus spreads much more quikly
[6:15 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: I agree more with the China approach.
No masks if you don't feel like it, free movement, test only if symptomatic, BUT harsh and targeted lockdown as soon as a cluster is found.
[6:17 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: maybe we should.. and hopefully not only because the G/MOH mandates us to
[6:19 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Herd Immunity unlikely ....Herd Mentality definitely
[6:19 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: 😱😨😅😅🤣
[6:20 pm, 04/10/2021] +CQ: I agree we should (as is commonplace for people in Japan, korea, Taiwan etc), and anyone who's sick shouldn't be out and about. Just stay home and stay away from other humans! I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that.
[6:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Did you use a condom, when AIDS was raging and there was no effective therapeutics against the HIV in the 80s/90s? Know of someone who gained natural immunity against HIV/AIDS?
[6:21 pm, 04/10/2021] +Rama: 😱😅🤣😅😂
[6:23 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Agree ... except that there are many asymptomatic carriers ... so don't test unless symptomatic, and don't wear mask unless ill, then might as well just don;t wear mask 😅
[6:24 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: How is aids/HIV virus related to covid lol.
[6:35 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: in response to Laurent’s comment “we need to build stronger imunne system not over protect ourselves”
[6:36 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: but thats HIV and AIDS, its nothing like covid except the fact that both are viruses. but there are millions of different viruses in the world
[6:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Actually you are wrong.
Retroviruses (HIV) and Coronaviruses (CV19) are actually close relatives.
Anyway, the comparison is about whether it is a virus that our body can form naturally immunity in time without help from vaccines before it kills us or not.
[6:39 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: but HIV and AIDS have no cure or vaccine
[6:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: wouldnt it be more comparable to compare covid and influenza? not a sex disease lol
[6:42 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: there are very effective therapeutics now that suppressed the HIV’s ability to cause AIDS, allowing a carrier to lead an otherwise “normal” life.
There are a lot of parallels between HIV and COVID.
For starters, carriers are mostly asymptomatic while infectious.
[6:43 pm, 04/10/2021] +CQ: I think the closest comparison is chickenpox, our parents used to bring us to "chickenpox parties" because they believed that the younger you get it, the less severe it'll be. I don't know if that's indeed the case, but at least anecdotally, that seems to hold true. But back then, they didn't have the knowledge that the virus will continue to lay dormant for years, just waiting for a chance to flare up again as shingles. The chance is now greatly reduced if you're vaccinated.
I wonder how many of the old parents would be kicking themselves now for intentionally exposing their child to the virus thinking that it's better to get it over and done with before PSLE or O levels.. Probably none. 🙄
[6:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: Again, if you think about it clearly, the transmission mechanism is closer to HIV than influenza in that the transmission is successful because of social interaction.
Influenza patients exhibit symptoms which warns healthy individuals from getting too close.
HIV and COVID transmits asymptomaticallu through social interactions.
[6:45 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: You don’t need to have sex to catch HIV
[6:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: and i thought this should have become common knowledge after almost 3 decades 🤦♂️
[6:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: but the social interactions are vastly different....
[6:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: lol...
[6:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: China is going with the zero covid strategy though, with their closed borders. Don't think sg can do that 😅
[6:46 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: one is through sexs or needles, other is by talking and sharing food lol
[6:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: ok.. if it helps .. you can catch COVID19 by having sexual relations with an infected person as well. 🤷♂️
[6:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: lol
[6:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: yea but HIV/AIDS interactions are a subset of covid interactions
[6:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: 🙄
[6:47 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: lol
[6:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: how many % would catch covid from sexual relations???
[6:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: hello...
[6:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Adrian: I'm amused at how the convo has developed 😂
[6:48 pm, 04/10/2021] +Angelica: hahaha
[6:49 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: i blame the French 😂
[6:49 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: lol
[6:54 pm, 04/10/2021] +Joseph: talking and sharing food? 😳
[7:00 pm, 04/10/2021] +Smiley face: 4 October, 2021
To: Distinguished Ministers, DMS And All Honorable Members
The Rhythmic Of Quarantine - The 1-2-3 Of Unwinding Towards the Path Of Endemic
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”.
- - Leonardo da Vinci
Stop local mobility or global travelling will slow transit and transmission of C-19?
This is the primary concern of the global communities and governments. However the twenty months of sciences and data also shown that the current D strain is of a lower lethal breed less than 0.5% mortality rate, though higher contagion characteristic, vulnerable to older people and possibly children.
Main:
Fact, a country's medical resources are the first liner of this covid attacks that leads to many unintended consequences and human inconven…
[7:00 pm, 04/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
====
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