REACH 285 - How are you adapting to the new COVID-19 measures? (SK)
18 Oct 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:29 am, 18/10/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! 😊
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Megan 😊
[10:31 am, 18/10/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
It has been about a week since the Covid-19 Home Recovery Programme (HRP) became the default care arrangement for everyone, except certain groups (10 Oct). COVID-19 testing and healthcare protocols had also been made simpler (11 Oct), bringing an end to quarantine orders and leave of absence notices. Under the new protocols, there are only be three sets of rules: people who have symptoms and test positive; those with no symptoms but test positive; and close contacts of a positive case. The revised healthcare protocols also mean that Singapore's Covid-19 strategy now rely heavily on antigen rapid tests (ARTs), which typically produce results in 15 minutes and can be self-administered. Vaccination differentiated measures have also kicked in on 13 Oct, to protect unvaccinated individuals and reduce the strain on the healthcare system.
💬 How are you adapting to the new COVID-19 measures? For those who have tested positive for COVID-19 and stayed home to recover, or recovered on a healthcare facility, how has your experience been?
Singapore reported 3,058 new COVID-19 cases as of noon on Sunday (Oct 17) with nine more people dying from complications due to the virus. 5,918 patients were recovering at home, with 2,986 patients in community care facilities and 734 patients in Covid-19 treatment facilities. There were 1,651 patients in hospital, up from 1,464 on Saturday, with 327 patients requiring oxygen support. There were 66 patients in intensive care.
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/9-more-singaporeans-die-of-covid-19-3058-new-infections
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/home-recovery-the-default-covid-19-care-arrangement-for-everyone-from-sunday
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-quarantine-orders-scrapped-simpler-rules-to-be-rolled-out-in-singapore
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/stricter-rules-for-those-unvaccinated-against-covid-19-to-take-effect-from-wednesday
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/askst-if-i-am-unvaccinated-how-can-i-still-enter-shopping-malls-if-i-need-to
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[10:36 am, 18/10/2021] +Elena Woo: The cost of ART kits has to really come down to be affordable. Test kits are test one time then throw away and $10+ for each kit is very costly. It should come down to max $1 per kit so that all can come forward to test themselves responsibly at home.
[10:39 am, 18/10/2021] +jimmy chew: Agree 👍
[10:40 am, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Need to start removing some of the legacy rules from last year now we are approaching endemic. Bring back music and TV in bars. Allow kids to play football in teams. Open up offices. Allow groups of people to eat together. Basically strip away the nuanced rules and have a general rule that requires vaccination or a negative test result to attend/participate.
[10:42 am, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Unless there is evidence that 3 people eating together in a restaurant, or 8 kids playing football together creates significant risk, then why have such a rule that prevents these things?
[10:42 am, 18/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: We need to crack down on fake news spread by anti vax groups. It is diluting the efforts and endangering our seniors and children.
[10:42 am, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Incidentally I see groups of people play basketball together casually, but organised sport doesn't allow this. Makes no sense.
[10:43 am, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Make it simple. Show a Vaccination or a negative test result, otherwise you cannot participate/ enter
[10:43 am, 18/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Fully agreed.
[10:43 am, 18/10/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Fully agreed.
[10:44 am, 18/10/2021] +jimmy chew: Just curious, What's the breakdown and reasons for the 1651 patients admitted. Is there any trends that we can detect to prevent it from happening? I am sure they're investigating and maybe just give a heads-up. Truth Will help citizens make better choices
[10:45 am, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Agreed. Information helps us take personal responsibility, and keeps us and our families safe.
[10:51 am, 18/10/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Agree. An ART test kit at $10 per test means if you test consecutively for 3-4 days is $30-$40+ & for people who have limited means but have higher probability of exposure, they may not test as often. Test kits should be made a affordable as possible to make it more widespread.
[10:52 am, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: +1
[11:10 am, 18/10/2021] +Cross finger: Whatever happens, need to allow same household to eat together: parents out with young kids need to feed them and the current situation where you have to split a family across multiple tables is ridiculous - and the parents inevitably having to go between the tables creates a risk which sitting at the same table does not.
[11:21 am, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1878904698964022&id=100005335308340&sfnsn=mo
This graph is more meaningful then MOH one?
[11:56 am, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Yes totally ridiculous. We all travel together, live together and arrive at a restaurant and have to sit apart. An overseas friend describes it as Bureaucracy Gone Mad. Surely no one deliberately intended this?
[11:58 am, 18/10/2021] +Laurent: 👍
[0:18 pm, 18/10/2021] +Elena Woo: Eating out takes down the masks, whether go between tables or not the risk is already exposed to unvac young kids. Shd not allow young kids to dine outside if possible.
[0:23 pm, 18/10/2021] +joseph: +1
[0:23 pm, 18/10/2021] +joseph: +1
[0:27 pm, 18/10/2021] +Cross finger: I think this is to protect SQ: I have three kids under 8 - only way my wife and I can eat with them outside the home is on SQ!! 🤣
[0:28 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Haha.
[0:30 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: How many illnesses have there been from kids eating out? Really need to make policies based on evidence not assumption, and logical. Currently kids can eat out but cannot sit with both parents. How does that make any sense?
[0:31 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. The current infection number hover around 3,000 plus every day.
2. Death slightly below 10 or sometimes double digits.
3. Wonder when can we see a downward trajectory towards 100 infection and minimal or zero death.
[0:32 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/covid-19-cases-in-uae-drop-below-100-in-boost-to-post-virus-goals UAE one of the highest vaccinated Country in the World - declare covid pandemic over.
[0:32 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is the 3rd Countries in the world after Denmark, and Norway to do so.
Israel will be the next potential one after UAE.
[0:33 pm, 18/10/2021] +Cross finger: Why should kids who cannot get vaccinated suffer to protect those who choose not to get vaccinated?!
[0:35 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Fair point. The dine in limit of 2 people makes no sense considering we all have to be vaccinated anyway!
[0:35 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: This is an example of policies that made sense 6 months ago no longer being relevant, and hindering our lives.
[0:37 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. All these countries are mark by high vaccination rate, fall from high infection number, fall in hospitalisation and low death number.
2. Also the low infection number, low hospitalisation and low and zero death stabilise and plateau.
3. Only if we can achieve this scenario, then we can happily declare ourselves endemic and consider covid no longer posing a threat to our public health safety.
[0:38 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/illegal-to-flood-govt-hotlines-or-incite-others-to-do-so-enforcement-action-to-be
[0:40 pm, 18/10/2021] +YT: This is tantamount to the DDOS attacks employed by cyber criminals.
[0:42 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: Volunteers don't need this doing their level best!
[0:44 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. UAE 10 million people population but less than 100 infection case per day down from 4,000 cases. Nearly 95% drop in infection with no death.
2. Singapore 5.45 million people clock more than 3,000 per day with single to double digits death.
3. Definitely we are at a high infection stage far from endemic.
[0:48 pm, 18/10/2021] +Timothy Low: Perhaps MOH should take actions and ban such websites: https://www.truthwarriors.info/sg-cases/
[0:51 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. I can be very sure that if we loosen restrictions now, our infection number will shoot up to 5,000 infection cases a day.
Hospitalisation number will go up and death will go up.
2. If we don't see a downward trajectory in infection number, hospital number and death soon - we should not think of loosening any restrictions any time soon.
[0:51 pm, 18/10/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya agree with all 3 pts.
[1:01 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Taking the statistics of Delta waves that rages in countries with high and low vaccination rate - high infection number, hospitalisation number and death - will rage on up to 70 days to 3 months.
2. During this heightened period where Delta run amok - the prudent measures are to :-
a. Tighten restriction measures - which we have already done and should hold on to it until it do a downward trajectory.
b. Ramp up vaccination rate among the unvaccinated.
c. Give booster shot to those where anti-bodies wane.
3. Only then countries manage to bring the population to land safely from the covid naive state to the endemic state.
4. Any actions to the contrary will introduce a multiple spikes within a spike.
[1:03 pm, 18/10/2021] +Valli: +1
We need the cases to go down.
Monitor for vaccinated people:
1) the death rate;
2) the extreme effects on the body if Covid +ve
3) health sector - if they are able to manage if vaccinated people start falling ill which requires hospital care
4) we don’t want death rate to rise because of staff fatigue or lack of care in the hospital
[1:11 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. UK, US and some EU countries do exactly the contrary by declaring freedom Day, without mask, big events when their vaccination rate is at a relatively high level - now the face spike and multiple spikes within a spike.
3. Denmark, Norway, UAE and Israel do exactly the following :-
a. Tighten restriction measures.
b. Ramp up vaccination rates among the unvaccinated.
c. Introduce booster to those waning anti-bodies.
4. We can see these discipline countries - Denmark, Norway, UAE and even potentially Israel declaring endemic mark by stabilise low infection number, hospital number and low or no death.
This is the authentic statistics that guide us - whether we are ready to declare endemic - not just because we have high vaccination rate - we call ourselves endemic - where high infection number, hospital number and death - tell a totally different story.
4. We will be foolhardy and try loosening restriction measures by defying reality.
[1:26 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Fully vaccinated rate at 85% and hendak kaki for very long.
Don't seem to be going up to hit 90% fully vaccinated.
[1:32 pm, 18/10/2021] +YT: Maybe cos the rest are below 12 years old?
[1:33 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
5% about 77,000 still adults and elderly.
About 10% 500,000 (I can't remember the exact figure) are children below 12 years old.
[1:34 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/2021/07/15/covid-19-nearly-80-of-kl-residents-have-received-two-vaccine-jabs-says-annuar-musa Covid-19: Nearly 80% of KL residents have received two vaccine jabs, says Annuar Musa.
Total KL population = 8.2 million.
6.56 million KL population vaccinated > 5.45 Singapore population.
[1:53 pm, 18/10/2021] +Anne: Dear G, in the first place, if you want non urgent feedback from the ground, you should not have provided telephone numbers for people to call, since your call centre is already flooded with other urgent matters. You could have provided an email address or feedback form instead. I am not saying what those people who intentionally flooded the hotlines with insincere feedback is right. What I’m saying is, why create unnecessary trouble for yourself by offering telephone hotlines for such feedback?
[2:05 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: Good point
[2:07 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: +1.
Smart national
Gov need to be smart also. Go digital!
[2:08 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: 😂😅🤣🤷♂️🤦♀️
[2:11 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Why would numbers go up by letting kids eat with their parents? Number might go down by changing this because splitting a family exposes them to more risk.
[2:18 pm, 18/10/2021] +Timothy Low: I believe G understand the frustration but it will be easier for the coffeeshop and hawker centre operators to "one-size-fits-all" to limit each table to 2. I can imagine the logistics nightmare if otherwise
[2:21 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Just curious, how many per group can go out or assemble?
I thought is still 2?
Come come we discuss spilt table - when only 2 per group is allow and 2 per dining table for vaccinated is allow?
Then are we suggesting loosening beyond 2 per group as infection spike?
[2:24 pm, 18/10/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Hotlines are not “feedback” lines, they are emergency lines, like 995, but specific to MOH or similar. People who intentionally flood these community resource lines with malicious intent (including instigators) need to be brought to task.
[2:34 pm, 18/10/2021] +Anne: The G provided these hotlines for people to give feedback on the mall ban issue. These numbers were given in the news article.
[2:35 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Malaysian govt will make life tough for those who refuse Covid-19 vaccinations: Health minister Khairy. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/malaysian-govt-to-make-life-tough-for-those-who-refuse-vaccinations-minister
[2:38 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
We need to acquire the art of doing ART:
(1) how to perform an ART correctly. How to interpret the result correctly. Although it is not rocket science, everyone in the household should know and learn including children and elderly.
(2) time the ART such that as a household we optimize our precious ART kits (or expensive to many people). Eg Dad works on-site and needs testing once a week. Mom WFH most of the time but needs testing if she needs to work at client's place etc. Kids? Elderly? If the household members come together and able to spread out their tests within the week, it can be more effective as a gauge when a household is infected vis-a-vis everyone tests on the same day every week.
(3) after each ART, write name, date and time on the test kit and take a photo of it before discarding the kit. Some agencies do accept such submissions within reasonable time frame and that will help reduce wastage and discomfort of repeated tests.
(4) Better still if there is a household record book of tests from all household members. Then when someone in the family is positive, we can deduce the likelihood of occurrence. It may be helpful in communicating to visitors to forewarn them. Home visits not likely to be captured by Tracetogether.
[2:42 pm, 18/10/2021] +Poh S. Lim: No, it was a hotline for home recovery, not reporting mall surges, therefore in the article it was referring to a hotline to assist a specific population.
[2:46 pm, 18/10/2021] +Poh S. Lim: @Anne please do read the article properly . There are really malicious actors out there to create disruptions and must be held accountable for their actions
[5:39 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: The pandemic has taken a toil in my relationship with the friends, colleagues and my external families.
I did visit my uncles and aunts, to bring them some fruits and cake, but I felt that its not the same.
The conversation usually revolves around "staying safe". Having a family meeting over Zoom is just not the same. Technology can never replace physical interactions.
If there is a "Happiness Index" for me. Mine has hit rock bottom and its still in the declining trend.
As Covid situation prolonged, the Gov has to take into account people's fatigue in their policies. I quote Aristotle "Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that …
[5:53 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: I was just thinking, but if Gov is to offer a gleam of hope~ for everyone to celebrate Xmas, New Year Day, next year's CNY in their household if we achieved 95%- 99% vaccination, we may be able to encourage more ppl to get vaccinated. Offer an alternative, and collectivism will do the rest.
[5:55 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: Too late to consider deepavali!?
[5:56 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: Haha. Andrew. Ya~ too late. 2022 mainly.
[5:56 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: 🤷♂️
[5:58 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: 4 nov is 2 weeks later. U shld know the timeline for 2 vaccinations.
[6:01 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: Will the next update on 241021 help!?
[6:02 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: 6 more days left lai
[6:02 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: no update by the gov yet is it back to 5 dine-in
[6:06 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: We can only hope~
[6:07 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-covid-19-approach-not-flip-flop-ong-ye-kung-2251796
[6:07 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: Waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel~
[6:09 pm, 18/10/2021] +Dan: Min. Ong said it in feb for the aviation industry, said it again in sep and now. I hope he gives us something concrete.
[6:11 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: 😅😂🤣🤷♂️ so not flip flop!?
[6:11 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Vaccination doesn't seem to be the problem. We have maybe the highest rate of vaccination in the world. We have too many rules for what we can and cannot do depending on who it is with, where it is etc. Just simplify. Vaccinated, excempt or have a negative test should be the criteria. If people qualify for those then allow is to take personal responsibility.
[6:12 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Why cannot 4 vaccinated people eat in restaurant but they can eat at home together? It's a daft rule.
[6:13 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: Vaccination comes with personal responsibility yes but health care services are drawn in when things don't go the right way.
[6:17 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Ok, so if vaccination is not the solution, then what is? We live like this until when?
[6:17 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: Other countries have high COVID cases for the past 1 year
[6:17 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: We already established I thought that there is time to ramp up health care resources if needed.
[6:17 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: while we just started...
[6:17 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: so...
[6:18 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Odd that we have less restrictions last year, lower vaccination rate and way less cases. Anyone understand how that is?
[6:19 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Remember when 8 people could go out for dinner?
[6:20 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: this year is delta, different variant
[6:20 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: different gamr
[6:21 pm, 18/10/2021] +jimmy chew: UK just announce Delta Plus.. haha
[6:22 pm, 18/10/2021] +jimmy chew: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-17/u-k-covid-case-load-prompts-gottlieb-call-for-urgent-research?srnd=premium-asia
[6:22 pm, 18/10/2021] +CQ: the Pro Max come out already anot? 🤣
[6:29 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/20/denmark-appears-have-beaten-covid-19-now-here-is-how-it-did-it/
Denmark appears to have beaten covid-19 — for now. Here’s how it did it..
Danes trusted government and health authorities to make responsible and competent decisions to fight the pandemic, which for the most part they did.
The Danish government and authorities in turn trusted the people of Denmark to behave responsibly and follow the guidelines.
[6:30 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: Still doesn't answer why people can eat at home together but not in a restaurant.
[6:30 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
For that matter, Denmark, Norway, UAE and Israel - all have the same discipline and same traits.
1. They trust the government.
2. The government trust the people to behave responsibility.
[6:30 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: to be fair for everyone who follow the rules of 2 pax per group lor
[6:40 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: This was screenshot last week. Now flip prata
[6:40 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: 😨😱🤦♀️😟🤷♂️
[6:41 pm, 18/10/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
S'pore's Covid-19 strategy not a 'flip-flop', helps prevent massive number of deaths: Ong Ye Kung.
Covid-19 infection numbers have shot up in recent weeks and there have been more related deaths.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spores-covid-19-strategy-not-a-flip-flop-helps-prevent-massive-number-of-deaths-ong-ye
[6:45 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: But why have the rules for kids under 12?
[6:46 pm, 18/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:49 pm, 18/10/2021] +Caleb: Like?
They are exampted, cause not eligible for vax
[6:51 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: The rule is that they cannot sit with both parents at a restaurant
[6:52 pm, 18/10/2021] +Ben: I agree they should be exempt from the rules
[6:55 pm, 18/10/2021] +Angelica: Those around me and my family are not affected as we are all vaccinated.
However I do feel that the new measures do result in a lot of inconvenience with regards to not just eating out but helping loved ones who are hospitalised.
Speaking from personal experience, one of my relatives is in the hospital for some other issue but contracted pneumonia, he is quite old already and was very cold but the nurses only give him blanket which didn’t help. Not being able to visit directly and see what’s going on and pass things directly (need to use butler service) made it difficult to help him. In the end my aunt had to pass him heat pack and socks late at night so he can sleep properly.
Furthermore, the head nurse in charge of him changes everyday, so there’s no …
[6:56 pm, 18/10/2021] +Angelica: Think because it’s hard for staff to tell whether ppl are actual family or friends meeting up lol
[6:57 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: MOH needs to address the mental well being of frail elderly and adolescent.
[6:57 pm, 18/10/2021] +Angelica: Tbh I also think the limit to 2 pax is extremely restrictive.... 😥
Hopefully can increase group size soon...
or maybe because even vax people are getting sick so Govt scared
[6:57 pm, 18/10/2021] +Angelica: Yea
[6:58 pm, 18/10/2021] +Rama: Yes
[6:59 pm, 18/10/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:59 pm, 18/10/2021] +Smiley face: 18 October, 2021
To: Distinguished MTF, DMS And All Honorable Members
BEAT IT! Or Beaten!
Counting down?
At midnite of 31st December, let's beat it and receive 2022 as a New Year! To our population, to our visitors and to the world, Singapore is fully open and a conclusive endemic!
How to Simplify & Unify?
By further reducing the SMM, it is the best positive signal for all to comprehend and accept risk.
A New and even Simpler public health advisory of stay-home and rest for 48 hours. Don't feel well, then proceed to a clinic for evaluation.
No need for ART/PCR, doctors will conduct these verifications to determine if it is covid or other illness. The cost of these tests will be paid by MOH.
If it is Covid positive, MC for another 48 hours.
For 95% of infected cases DO NOT NEED further medical interventions after 48 hours of self checks, self isolates and self heals. The 5% will need further observations either through telemedication or CCF or proper hospitalisation. If we dissect the 5% into finite numbers, according to MOH statistics only 0.5% of the overall infected cases need further or serious medical cares.
How about Economy & Community?
If we continue to sustain within these national SMM for the next 3 months or longer, the unintended consequences are FEARFULNESS and stigmatisation of human to human and place to place of this Covid attacks!
Simply to put it in reality, our economies will be under TREMENDOUS stress and attacks!
What about Healthcare & Hospital resources?
Be able to implement up to 50 ICU beds within 8 hours including manpower and equipments. Within 24 hours, we will have 150 ICU beds? The assumption is we have the RESERVED stockpile and locale ready to be activated if needed. This is an important assurance to calm the population and progress into endemic.
How about the future waves of variant/ infection?
Surely it will come and go! Importantly we have learned to be smarter and swifter in handling such scenarios simply out of experienced and exposures! Yes, our infrastructures have been through the stretch and the length of the Covid challenges. To our best abilities, once again we will persevere and BEAT IT!
Afterwords:
Are we ready?
By implementing dine-in for 10 pax. The table mix will be 8 fully vaccinated and 2 unvaccinated.
- - END - -
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