REACH 245 - Phase 3HA-2 (SK)
18 Jun 2021 (11am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:47 am, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
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[10:50 am, 18/06/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Special testing operations for staff and tenants who work in parts of Redhill and Tiong Bahru will be conducted from June 18, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) on June 17. The testing operation comes as more cases were confirmed in the Tiong Bahru neighbourhood on Thursday, including one that was unlinked. 17 more people were also added to the Bukit Merah View food centre cluster, bringing the total number of cases in the cluster to 56.
π¬ Do you think Singapore is ready to move into the next stage of reopening on Monday as planned, or should we take a more cautious approach to the easing of measures?
In an Instagram and Facebook post on Wednesday (June 16), Mr Wong noted that Singapore is now in the first stage of its reopening following phase two (heightened alert) restrictions, and that further relaxation of the rules was due to take place next Monday, including allowing dine-ins at eateries.
"Unfortunately, we now have new cases breaking out and a major new cluster in Bukit Merah. Given these developments, we are evaluating the timing and scope of the next stage of reopening. The multi-ministry task force is studying the situation carefully with public health experts, and will provide further updates soon," said Mr Wong, who is co-chairman of the task force, in his post.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-evaluating-timing-scope-of-next-stage-of-reopening-amid-latest-outbreak-of-covid-19
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/bukit-merah-view-food-centre-cluster-grows-to-56-special-testing-operations-for-eng
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/clusters-in-north-east-swiftly-brought-under-control-with-testing
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[10:51 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: we are ready. lock down bukit merah just like TTSH... all to get tested...
[10:51 am, 18/06/2021] +Rama: I rather err on the side of caution and push dine in to 280621
[10:51 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: I see ppl commented that area alot no mask, can SPF do something
[10:52 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: activate all the resources
[10:52 am, 18/06/2021] +Rama: Along with SDA
[10:52 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: no mask should not be our weakest point for the virus to come in
[10:55 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: thought gov say want it to be epidemic.. so why so concern about new cluster in Bukit Merah?
[10:57 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Gov got to ‘learn to carry on with our lives even with Covid-19 in our midst’... lol
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-will-have-learn-carry-our-lives-even-covid-19-our-midst-pm-lee
[10:58 am, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Reopen on time with tweaks:
1. Dining in 2 pax
2. Decrease density of diners
3. Max sit in dining timing imposed
4. Mandatory wipedown procedures in between diners enforced by on site inspections
In lieu of the above:
- Vaccination done or in process, or
- On site rapid test
[11:00 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: maybe gym can open, but mask must be on
[11:00 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: and with HEPA filter
[11:00 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: like in hospital and air plans
[11:00 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: plane
[11:02 am, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Is everywhere π
[11:02 am, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Good idea but may be very costly to implement. But it's time to relook at 'smelly' buildings
[11:05 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: is either the open for Business , or close until don't know when.
Business decide lor
[11:06 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: think is best to be prudent still
[11:07 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: the devil is in the crowd for too long this time ....
[11:07 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: or we do a 4 weeks CB?
[11:07 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: kill the devil
[11:07 am, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Agree. I also feel that re-opening should proceed but with enhanced precautions.
The stallholders would probably have stocked up on perishables in preparation for re-opening for biz. A sudden u-turn will cause significant impact to our hawkers.
To balance the need to contain/prevent another outbreak, an enhancement and enforcement of safe distancing and hygiene would be helpful.
Hire/employ more cleaners and/or supply sufficient sanitizers/disposable cleaning cloth so that patrons can wipe down the tables/chairs/utensils before/after use.
[11:08 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: or maybe can do this
[11:08 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: craxy idea
[11:08 am, 18/06/2021] +Valli: With the ease that this new Delta variant is spreading, a more cautious approach is needed.
Hotspots like Dine-in, gyms, etc should be avoided for now until we can close the clusters & bring down the community cases.
[11:08 am, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Glitch in DBS banking services with customers double charged for transactions on credit, debit cards
DBS customers have flagged a glitch in the lender's banking services, with several of them claiming that they were double charged for transactions made on credit and debit cards.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/banking/glitch-in-dbs-banking-services-with-customers-double-charged-for-transactions-on
[11:08 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: different zones to be open for 2weeks for business
[11:08 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and be review if can carry on for another 2 weeks
[11:11 am, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: I shudder to see laxed cleaning practices esp in food centres
[11:11 am, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Before all recent events
[11:31 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Many more not going to trust bank liao. More ppl don't want to go epayment
[11:32 am, 18/06/2021] +Kevin: 14-18 June transactions are affected.
[11:42 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Dear REACH, what would be more cautious approaches from what SG has done today? Does being more cautious means a longer time in semi-lock down in the society, so that it is "good" for the society? Is this more cautious approach really that good if (a) there is a growing trade off with mental health in SG, and (b) tradeoff with employment and business health?
[11:45 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: With US, EU and other countries all opening up - and since SG would maintain an open border - shouldn't the govt and society accept that there will be a level of infections and it is more important that our preparations are sufficient, disciplined and ready? For example, ICUs and self-testing kit availabilities for people to take self-preventive care and to know there is more professional care available if needed. To me, this will be a more cautious approach.
[11:46 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: So, yes, SG should reopen on Monday. With SG's open borders and the rest of the countries all opening up regardless of infection rates, there is unlikely a good time to reopen.
[11:47 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: The whole phase 2HA period. Never see Gov asking ppl who are sick to see doc promptly.
Gov have missed that opportunity
[11:47 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Govt need to also take care that all these "should we open", "should we not open" uncertainties can also mean mental pressure on the society. More holistic considerations are needed and needs to be demonstrated. Thank you.
[11:49 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: 2 more days to Monday. And Gov still can't make a decision to announce is it to proceed or what
[11:49 am, 18/06/2021] +CQ: Erm... They did. That's a message that has been said repeatedly.
[11:49 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Is it. I never see lei
[11:51 am, 18/06/2021] +CQ: LW will be so sad. π And it's in the daily updates in all the news articles as well. That message is a constant.
[11:52 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Means gov fail to communicate...
[11:52 am, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Think the sentiments are either CB (and for businesses get max financial support) or open up. 2HA was beneficial from infection control perspective but was harmful to businesses.
[11:53 am, 18/06/2021] +CQ: I don't think they failed. They did communicate, and repeatedly via various channels. I don't think it's their fault if people choose not to see/hear.
[11:54 am, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: I think they need to do much more...
[11:55 am, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Information fatigue?
[11:55 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Or maybe people has become immune to the messages/distracted by other more pressing things on the mind...
[11:56 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: π
[11:56 am, 18/06/2021] +CQ: Maybe, but then cannot say govt didn't communicate cos people choose to tune out.
[11:58 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: True too, although it may not because people has chosen to tune out (but it just happens). Eg/ how many years has SG been having anti-littering messages... yet, has it been effective?
[11:59 am, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Clear your own trays in hawker centres needed fines to incentivise people coz messages without fines haven't really worked!
[11:59 am, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: π
[11:59 am, 18/06/2021] +CQ: I would dare say I'm generally quite critical of the steps taken by govt esp if it's "think halfway". But this pandemic handling, I think they quite poor thing. Keep everything open for economy, people complain they not prioritising people's health. Lockdown to protect people and limit spread, people complain about businesses, mental health abd dunno what. So what you want sia. No wonder LW's wrinkles getting deeper. π
[0:02 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: These are all important issues that need balancing. So, I think the assessment should be whether has a consistent and holistic balance been achieved; that minimises unnecessary angst and uncertainties.
[0:02 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: Things like littering, they've done both the hard approach (law enforcement) and soft approach (campaigns). If it still failed, is it the govt's failure in educating, or is it the "student's" refusal to learn? Think about it.....
[0:04 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: π€π
[0:04 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: I think in the circumstances, it's already quite minimal. Close any tighter and we'll need to tap on ah kong's money again. Too loose and then people see the numbers escalate, govt gets cussed out again.
[0:07 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Exactly. Could the govt and media reporting focus be too much on the daily infection numbers (a narrow focus), so much so that the overall context (our medical system's readiness, etc) has been overlooked? Say today's number is 30. Should this be a big worry? Are we micro managing things too much?
[0:07 pm, 18/06/2021] +65 9740 5395: Yes. Like the tray return…
[0:22 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/indian-variant-r-number-7-172540264.html
High Vaccination rate of at least 80% with 2 doses will be needed to stop Delta variants - according to UK study.
[0:23 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/delta-variant-fuelled-50-rise-in-england-covid-19-prevalence-15030942
Delta variant fueling the rise of infection cases in England.
[0:30 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: https://youtu.be/6NsHfBQw42w
[0:31 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. To reach endemic stage, 80% double dose Vaccination rate must be achieved.
2. Else we will see many hospitalisation, oxygen support and even death.
3. UK and Indonesia with onslaught of Delta variants - experience these.
4. Can Singapore accept this?
[0:35 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Bukit Merah View food centre cluster grows to 39 cases
http://www.asiaone.com/singapore/covid-19-bukit-merah-view-food-centre-cluster-grows-39-cases?utm_source=mobileapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=native-share
My close friend comments:- without dine in, the cases spread so fast.
My comments:-
Yes.
That's why now dine-in is a big issue - because afraid that it will become a source of superspreader events.
Wonder without dine-in, how the variants can spread so rapidly.
Outdoor some more.
My close friend comments: Bopian, have to up vaccination rate
My comments: Open air, no dine in big cluster. Proof point that the variant is highly contagious.
It reminds me of how covid spread in Wuhan.
It was an open market.
You are right, we have to depend on high Vaccination rate to help us to stop this covid-19 variants.
[0:39 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Also Wuhan no one wear mask and no Vaccination.
Thus not surprise the covid spread so fast.
Down here, everyone wear masks. And I believe many have begin Vaccination.
Wonder how come our market and hawker centre still can spread so fast.
[0:40 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Look at Malaysia number.
2. Taiwan number.
3. India number.
Can we take such a hit?
[0:48 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:-
1. The above is a screenshot from MOH website.
2. There was no timeframe stamp for the collected statistics. Presume all three bars are tabulated from the same timeframe?
3. In the absence of data for the population segment who are exposed to infection, the comparison of those who are vaccinated with 1 dose and those unvaccinated, showed small differences.
4. Only those fully vaccinated with 2 doses seems to fare very well.
5. Taking UK as a reference, where UK is now hit with Delta variants, their infection number and hospitalisation go up - because their people are predominantly receiving 1 jab - which mirror Singapore real life situation for those who are vaccinated with 1 dose and those who are unvaccinated and vaccinated.
5. Until we reach a very high percentage of fully vaccinated, looks like we cannot treat covid as endemic (mild flu) and stop watching the numbers.
6. My comments :-
Yes agree.
To declare endemic stage, we need to be 100% sure - supported by facts and number on the ground - because we are dealing with many people's lives.
[0:51 pm, 18/06/2021] +Valli: One of the reason why we need to be cautious now.
We cannot follow like other countries in opening up too much even when their cases were high.
No matter how much we could be prepared in stocking up on medical needs, once the Delta virus goes out of control, cannot imagine what will happen.
If this happens, Inevitably we will see the death rate going up, & foresee what is happening in other countries that is loosening their controls.
It is better to tighten our measures now & bring the clusters & cases down & monitor before relaxing the measures taken now.
[0:53 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: Agree
[0:55 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. The greatest mental health - is to see people infected, see hospitalisation go up, see ICU overwhelmed, see death.
2. Not whether can eat outside, or more freedom.
[1:00 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The moment we see this happening, no countries in the world - will want to open their border for you.
Don't be fool by endemic.
Endemic happen where :-
1. Infection number go down.
2. Vaccination rate is at herd immunity.
3. Hospitalisation number go down.
4. ICU go down.
5. Death none or negligible.
Other countries won't be fool by declaring ourselves endemic when the number is still rising - and open their border for us.
[1:03 pm, 18/06/2021] +Dilasan. J: Convenience should not be prioritized above life.
As long as majority of the population is not fully vaccinated, we should constantly be vigilant and not ease our guard.
keep the controlled measures in place until the its clear that the situation is under control. It will be more disruptive to reopen and them immediately fall back into a lockdown if cases spread again.
All the effort and sacrifice for the past few weeks would go to waste if it happens
[1:22 pm, 18/06/2021] +Elena Woo: I don't think we are ready to move to next stage yet.
[1:38 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Only 2 doses Vaccination is effective against Delta variants.
2. We are only at 35.23% still very far from 80% herd immunity effective against Delta variants (according to UK study based on transmission rate).
3. We are no where near endemic stage.
[1:39 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Let's go back CB
[1:39 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: So that we can go further
[1:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Jamie Bethany Koh: i m also wondering - for this new bukit merah/redhill/tiong bahru cluster, how many of the people who got infected are vaccinated/not vaccinated?
[1:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Radical:)
[1:41 pm, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Guess 30:70?
[1:51 pm, 18/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: On one hand I really yearn to dine out with my friends, on the other the cases seem bad and I’m worried as well. I’m sure many people share same sentiments. I know many F&B shops are getting desperate and throwing wrench into the works might cost them even more money. But yet the fear of increase in cases is there. This is really a tough dilemma. Whoever is making the decision and whatever the decision may be, I will fully support it. I trust our gov to be guided and principled to make the best decision for all of us. My 2.14 cents.
[2:05 pm, 18/06/2021] +Smiley face: MTF.
Min Wong, Min Gan, Min Ong, DMS, Honorable Members
Thesis: "If I had $1 left, I would spent on PREVENTIONS than CURE...!
-- Ian T
FACT: The larger the NUMBERS of the infected will derive a mutation phrase well into many variants. Only the significant strain will be classified, in this case is DELTA for understanding purpose.
Should a future variant that is out of control, with ultmost urgency, we may have to RELOOK into procedures, tools and remedies! That's not the path towards in solving a big evolving problem!
Having mentioned DELTA strain, it is a fact there is a new surfacing DELTA+ variant in India as we discussed. The depth and length of this DELTA+ is yet to be QUANTIFIED like its u…
[2:32 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Is it spreading fast or are we just catching it more frequently
[2:35 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: We still don't know the effect of covid in these new cases. The recent lorry driver from Malaysia didn't know he had it and felt fine. Was he contagious even? We might be in a situation where the virus is present but not contagious and not particularly harmful. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm saying we don't know.
[2:36 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/uk-says-delta-variant-60-per-cent-more-transmissible
Rapid spread of 'more transmissible' Delta variant throws England’s re-opening into doubt
[2:36 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: We need to dive a but deeper into the numbers now. Just monitoring how many times we find someone has covid isn't helpful. If we are seeing all the cases, but no one is getting ill then that's a different problem. If it really is everywhere in the community and highly dangerous, wouldn't we be seeing the consequences?
[2:37 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/covid-19-cases-in-jakarta-surge-50-in-past-week-amid-rise-in-delta-variant
Delta variants trigger a surge of 50% infection in Indonesia.
[2:37 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKUtVXZoknvtdqL4jqqgMRkqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowjujJATDXzBUwiJS0AQ?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
Delta variants will be the dominant covid strain worldwide - now in 74 countries.
[2:37 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/delta-variant-fuelled-50-rise-in-england-covid-19-prevalence-15030942 Delta variant fueling the rise of infection cases in England.
[2:38 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Yes a huge rise in UK cases. How ill are people from it, and were they single double or zero vaccine dose people?
[2:39 pm, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Hence the endemic characterisation. But it'll be useful to have more data on Delta variant specifically.
[2:39 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
More than 3 million Singapore residents unvaccinated.
[2:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, this is the biggest threat
[2:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: maybe remain to 2HA, those want to go out go out, those want to stay home, stay home
[2:41 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Malaysia Delta variants casualty.
[2:45 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. 1 wrong move - we may end up like Malaysia.
2. If we make major mistake we may end up like India.
[2:45 pm, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: back to the statement let's be predrudent and each be socially responsible
[2:46 pm, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no matter how fancy the preventive measure ahh once we have 5% of idiots in society who refuse to go with the flow ... breech will happen again
[2:46 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Very odd so much time and effort is out into encouraging people to take the vaccine. If its good for people and necessary for society why not make it mandatory? Put this effort into something more useful, or share their vaccines with other countries that are desperate for them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/17/netherlands-offers-free-pickled-herring-as-covid-jab-incentive?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
[2:47 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, I'm leaning towards mandatory once everyone who wants it has been given it
[2:47 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: While the numbers are eye-catching, is lock-down, clamp down and social restrictions the only ways to move forward in the foreseeable future? There is constantly news of new variants and new spikes. As long as SG's borders remain open (and rightly so), won't SG constantly have cases too? If so, does it mean that we will constantly be locked down/socially restricted? This can't be a sustainable solution... right?
[2:48 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Correct. That's why vaccination is the key.
[2:48 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: π Agreed!
[2:48 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: We need to learn to live with and manage cases.
[2:48 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Although vaccination is also not a silver bullet...
[2:49 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Isn't it? We may need boosters etc, but history shows only way to eradicate viruses is through vaccination.
[2:49 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Totally agreed. How to live with, and not avoid, with this Covid situation is key for us!
[2:49 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, which is why the daily update of 15-20 cases is no longer telling us much on its own
[2:50 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Haha.. I don't know why I am finding myself so agreeable with you :) Agreed! But it takes time. So, what and how do we live during the transition period towards a lower controllable rate of Covid infections?
[2:52 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Beyond 55% Vaccination rate, infection number fell significantly.
[2:52 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. To declare an endemic stage, we need to achieve 3 important milestones :-
a. Inflection Point - we must reach an inflection point of at least 55% full vaccination rate - and at the same time, we see 3 conditions happenings :-
i. Infection number go down significantly
ii. Hospitalisation number go down significantly.
iii. No death (or minimal mortality).
b. Herd Immunity - to reach the 2nd phase to endemic stage, we need to achieve a vaccination of at least 90% - to be considered at herd immunity.
The above 3 conditions of infection number, hospitalisation number and mortality - must also be met.
c. 100% vaccination rate - through Mandatory Vaccination.
Even with Herd Immunity of 90% vaccination is not good enough to declare endemic stage - because 10%, 556,000 people are unvaccinated.
We cannot declare ourselves as endemic stage - and treat covid-19 as mild flu - because it will still infect 556,000 unvaccinated people - and will still cripple our hospitals and ICUs.
2. Only declaring Mandatory Vaccination - and make the last group that refuse vaccination - vaccinates --- then we can declare ourselves in endemic stage - and "Everyone is protected from covid-19" --- and we can treat covid-19 as mild flu.
[2:53 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Can post the article don’t just extract? So we can share if the source is good
[2:53 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. I only believe in science and math.
2. Guided by outcome.
[2:53 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Good understanding for people that want to read
[2:54 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Haha, yes you are asking all the good questions and making the good points, that's why we are agreeing! We are living through the transition now. Without more granular information.ation on where these cases are coming from and how serious thye are, we cannot answer that question. If cases are coming from clothes shops and libraries, then you identify the common pattern and cut off access to those places. If eating in restaurant means no masks and too much interaction between staff and customers then you close those places. If however, a case means a mild headache for a day then you dont take such drastic measures.
[2:54 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: Hahahaha... agreed! Reporting only the number of cases without context is not telling much.
[2:55 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: ππΊ :)
[2:55 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
You can take it I read it from many sources and consolidate the findings.
Unless I am doing a dissertation, than I will probably quote all the sources.
[2:56 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Great idea haha
[2:56 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: what context u want?
[2:56 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: thought they gave in a night report
[2:57 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Hmm some stuff you post are decent… and seems like expert advice, so you consolidate yourself π
[2:57 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes. You can assume that.
[2:58 pm, 18/06/2021] +Boon: In the spirit of discussions, what does the # of cases tell us? It tells us that today is higher or lower than yesterday, and where these cases are located. Is this the ONLY input that should go into the big decision of whether or not SG should endure a longer restrictive lock down?
[2:59 pm, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Nope
[3:09 pm, 18/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: nice example ya
[3:10 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Dining in allowed from June 21 but only in groups of 2, as S'pore opts for calibrated Covid-19 opening
Dining in can resume from next Monday (June 21), but only in groups of up to two people instead of five as previously announced, said Minister for Trade and Industry Gan Kim Yong on Friday (June 18).
The group limit will be increased to five from mid-July as part of this "calibrated approach" to opening, barring unforeseen circumstances in the virus situation, he added at a press conference by the multi-ministry task force on Covid-19.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/dining-in-allowed-from-june-21-but-only-in-groups-of-2-as-spore-opts-for-calibrated-covid
[3:12 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Mandatory swabbing, SMS alerts for those who visit places on the same day as Covid-19 cases
There will be mandatory swab testing for people who have visited hot spots on the same days as Covid-19-infected persons, the multi-ministry taskforce on Covid-19 said in an update on Friday (June 18).
They will receive health alerts via SMS from the Ministry of Health (MOH).
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/mandatory-swabbing-sms-alerts-for-those-who-visit-places-on-the-same-day-as-covid
[3:12 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Correct, and they have a lot more information from the TT. I'm in favour and support gov decisions as I trust their action on the pandemic, despite a couple of slips ups. However, I'd we are asked for public opinion then we need more info to respond intelligently.
[3:14 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Good decision. Would prefer more if all vaccinated but I can see that hard to implement.
[3:15 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Good, let's take proactive approach
[3:15 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Also would prefer more if all live together, but again hard to enforce.
[3:16 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: So all things considered I support these small steps towards opening up and monitoring the situation.
[3:17 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: hawker centers got no safeentry... SMS to who ah?
[3:18 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: πLatest COVID-19 News
➡️ Group sizes for indoor, mask-off sport and exercise activities can resume with two from June 21
https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/group-sizes-for-indoor-mask-off-sport-and-exercise-activities-can-resume-with-two-from-june-21
➡️ Mandatory 14-day routine testing from mid-July for staff involved in higher-risk activities such as F&B and hairdressing
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/mandatory-14-day-routine-testing-from-mid-july-for-staff-involved-in-higher-risk
➡️ Extended govt support for F&B, hawkers and other sectors hit by Covid-19 measures
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/extended-govt-support-for-fb-hawkers-and-other-sectors-hit-by-covid-19-measures
[3:20 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Dine in 2.
Still not too bad.
[3:21 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: Group of 2 = can paktor. 3rd wheels not allowed, zi dong a bit pls! π
[3:25 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: "Given the increased transmissibility of viral strains, we will use Trace Together and Safe Entry data to strengthen our ringfencing around cases to prevent large clusters from arising," MOH added.
[3:25 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: u mean MOH have not been using these data?
[3:26 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: Dining-in to resume from Jun 21 but in groups of two, not five https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-dining-in-resume-groups-of-2-people-jun-21-moh-15040520#.YMxKjn_qhhg.whatsapp
[3:31 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Lol
[3:31 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Baby papa and mama cannot bring you out cause government say cannot 3 people ππ
[3:31 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/some-cases-in-bukit-merah-market-cluster-had-queued-at-popular-stores-for-30?utm_campaign=stfb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
I'm reminded of all those FB posts about how the hawkers so poor thing, go support them, then half of SG show up to queue for the food. Want to help them but end up kena cluster....
[3:32 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Not sure how to help them also.. many don’t go office
Canteen, hawkers near office sure all die out as we drag on
[3:32 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: I see long Q to get swab test...
[3:33 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: Singaporeans' national hobby: queueing
[3:34 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: For anything
[3:35 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: Good thing BTS meal is by delivery only. It'll sure be a repeat of the Hello Kitty craze
[3:35 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: Y
[3:35 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Sinovac also got queue lor
[3:35 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: π€£π€£
[3:37 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: can advise all people to open their TT app or bring their token whenever they leave their house?
[3:37 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: even go downstairs open letter box
[3:39 pm, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: If the Govt makes it mandatory immediately, I am quite sure there were be protests everywhere and while many more will be raging on social media about how arrogant the Govt is to force them to do it π
I think the trouble is that the general population nowadays is much more vocal and has more time and resources to challenge the Govt compared to our previous generations. It’s a byproduct of our Nation’s success that the majority feels successful enough that they think/feel that they are more capable/smarter than the policy makers π
Anyway, i won’t be surprised that it will become (indirectly) mandatory if we don’t hit the 70/80% mark by year end.
Times like these make me miss leaders like LKY even more. We need more leaders who can focus on saying/doing what’s right, rather than being politically correct.
[3:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Agree π
[3:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Citing the example of the Bukit Merah View cluster, he said 32 per cent of cases have been vaccinated, but 50 per cent of people have yet to received vaccination.
The rest of the cases have either received just one dose of vaccination, or have not yet derived full protection afforded by the two doses of vaccination.
"This does support the view that vaccination does protect you and reduce the risk of you getting infected, as opposed to those who are not vaccinated," he said.
[3:40 pm, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Probably only until we get to 80% fully vaccinated
[3:41 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: 50 per cent not yet being vaccinated. That is the national wide numbers right?
[3:42 pm, 18/06/2021] +Peter T Ng: Present climate: must also be seen to do the right things.
Sinovac accessibility will be a big help to the vaccination effort
[3:43 pm, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Data so far seems to suggest that people who are vaccinated, do not get very ill even if they catch CV19.
It’s like how the common flu used to be deadly … but now, the mortality rate is so low that no one bats an eyelid when someone squeezes.
It’s all to do with vaccines and therapeutics.
[3:45 pm, 18/06/2021] +Murphy Choy: https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/expats-in-singapore-hong-kong-watch-with-envy-as-world-opens-up-033924640.html
[3:49 pm, 18/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: This is what’s reported for general consumption.
Does not mean it’s the only consideration for the policymakers.
[3:58 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: 14 new Covid-19 cases in community; 2 imported
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/14-new-covid-19-cases-in-community-2-imported
[3:59 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Vaccination begins at special education schools, 85 receive jab on first day
Vaccinations for students at special education (Sped) schools began on Thursday (June 17), including at the Cerebral Palsy Alliance Singapore School.
Education Minister Chan Chun Sing said in a Facebook post late on Thursday night than about eight in 10 of eligible students in Sped schools here have registered to get vaccinated.
A total of 85 of them received their first dose on Thursday.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/vaccinations-begin-at-special-education-schools-85-receive-jab-on-first-day
[3:59 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Why 14 days? Should be every 3 ideally.... if not then 7 at most
[4:00 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Under 12 should be exempt, they obviously all live together!
[4:01 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Queues should be limited to 5 people
[4:01 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Distribute home self test kits?
[4:02 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: Yes once most are vaccinated it's easier to madate it
[4:08 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Not accurate lar… more for those that use weekly… once off one no point getting.
[4:08 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ken: Cause no experience may not test it accurately
[4:11 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:
But only 5 were under quarantined. Means 9 have been moving and spreading virus π°
My comments:
Sigh....
Now you see our dilemma.
At one hand I support gradual opening up - so that business can survive.
On the other hand, all these stealth cases quietly spreading.
[4:16 pm, 18/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: No choice but the concern is there but also need to reopen and haiz
[4:17 pm, 18/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: We need try our best to keep cases low while reopening
[4:19 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: SafeEntry Gateway check-out boxes to be rolled out at malls, other high footfall venues https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/safeentry-gateway-for-check-outs-malls-hospitals-15040538#.YMxXB_pjIu8.whatsapp
[4:20 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That's why I 50-50 - not encouraging grand opening (by declaring we are at endemic stage - and free for all like the west) - but not discouraging gradual opening.
I am quietly delighted that 2 dine in is allowed.
[4:20 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: thought Gov say no need check-out, they can check what time we leave the place.. lol
[4:21 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: π€·♂️
[4:31 pm, 18/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: 101% agree
[5:08 pm, 18/06/2021] +Smiley face: Thailand LATEST situations:
Population of 70 millons and divided into 77 provinces (towns, municipals and provinces) .
11 (or more) are infected with Delta variant.
More than 500,000 unemployed in F&B and Tourism related trades.
More than 50,000 F&B from small eateries to Michelin star restaurants closed. Loss of revenue over $60 million per day from F&B industry
Sriracha Tiger Zoo in Chonburi is bankrupted, selling elephant for B$3 million each!
Phuket is opening July, visitors need not quarantine BUT proof of vaccination 14 day prior to arrival. Accommodation offers US$1 for first nite stay for participating hotels only.
Afterwords:
What's are the unemployment figures for Malaysia F&B and Tourism related trades?
What is the daily lost in re…
[5:10 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: π±π¨π€¦♀️π
[5:22 pm, 18/06/2021] +Phyllis: Wow. @☸️ Danny εΏ you've got a partner π
[5:24 pm, 18/06/2021] +Smiley face: ... We are ALL in the same boat...
[5:28 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: πππ
[5:43 pm, 18/06/2021] +Ben: So can 5 people get takeaway and sit in the park together? Just curious how "eating out but not in a restaurant" is counted...
[5:44 pm, 18/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: π€·π»♂️
[5:45 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Outdoor. Risk lower baj
[5:45 pm, 18/06/2021] +Caleb: Bah
[6:10 pm, 18/06/2021] +YT: Let's say a coffeeshop had 15 tables. That's 15 times 2 pax without masks, yakking, spewing droplets, and coughing or sneezing away. 30 people. Cleaners wipe the tables and go from one table to another.
No thanks. I would continue to do da bao until the community cases stabilize.
[6:11 pm, 18/06/2021] +Rama: Likewise
[6:12 pm, 18/06/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:-
This virus has been around in Singapore for 18 months.
Let's revisit what was first principle in infections control?
Ensuring healthcare capacity not overwhelm, leading to deaths and serious consequences. Correct?
In the absence of vaccines, we have to shut slow economic activities which then leads to an evil twin - economic downturn.
Now, we are in a much better position.
10Jun Straits Times reported more than 80% healthcare personnel vaccinated.
Also reported were age 45 and above who are vaccinated or have booked their vaccinations is close to 75%. What does this mean? We need to know the numbers of this high risk group who are more susceptible to serious covid and deaths. Are all 75% already vaccinated by now?
What's the probability of jamming up the healthcare capacity now compared to 18 mths ago?
If not, then we can confidently and steadily move towards reopening.
The infection will increase, can we then move our focus towards accommodating the infected which are highly likely to be mild in isolation centres because they are younger?
We have just lost our number one position as the most competitive economy and drop to 5th spot in a short span of 12 mths.
The virus is not going to stop circulating, can we look at the proportion of high risk groups such as the front-line workers and elderly.
We may see higher infection numbers but say if they are mostly mild cases, is that a concern?
I don't have the numbers. There are but risky numbers and not-so risky numbers. Can we shift our perspective shifting and ask why we can't reopen steadily?
[6:26 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: I'd also rather tarpau. The only thing I miss about eating out is korean bbq where the tarpau isn't quite the same, but won't die. I'm prepared to give up this luxury so that someone's mother/father/grandmother/grandfather/uncle/aunt doesn't kena covid and die, however low this chance may be. I won't die if I don't dine out, but someone may not be that lucky with the virus.
[6:34 pm, 18/06/2021] +YT: Well said!
[6:35 pm, 18/06/2021] +YT: I also miss mookata. And I think those hawkers or restaurants doing mookata or steamboats will suffer and many may fold. But for the greater good, I believe it's best to keep every one safe and not to overwhelm the Healthcare system until even those who don't have covid can't get medical attention.
[6:38 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Study of 29,000 people on quarantine in S'pore shows vaccines can prevent infection and severe disease
A local study analysing the data of 29,000 people on quarantine in Singapore, including those unvaccinated, has found that Covid-19 vaccines offer 79.1 per cent protection against Covid-19 infection.
A similar study done in Britain found vaccination offered 88 per cent protection, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on Friday (June 18).
"We are 79 per cent, so not very far off," added Mr Ong, who was speaking at the press conference held by the multi-ministry task force tackling Covid-19.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/study-of-29000-people-on-quarantine-in-spore-shows-vaccines-can-prevent-infection-and
[6:39 pm, 18/06/2021] +CQ: I think mookata and steamboat also selling tarpau, like they pack their soup stock separately and pre-cook the dishes and what not. It's not the same, but still barely hanging in there. The ones that totally burst will be the drinks stalls.
[6:45 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Megan
[7:00 pm, 18/06/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
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