REACH 239 - Views whether to lift Phase 2HA or more cautious approach (SK)
03 Jun 2021 (11am - 7pm)
REACH
[0:39 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! 😊
⏰ We will be opening the chat from 1245pm to 7pm today. ⏰
House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:
1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views.
2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.
3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.
4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.
5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential.
Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms
We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.
Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.
The topic will be posted shortly.
Thank you
Megan 😊
[0:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
💬 Do you think Singapore is ready to lift the heightened measures imposed since 16 May or should we take a more cautious approach to opening up?
A total of 27 people at MINDSville@Napiri Adult Disability Home have tested positive for COVID-19, forming a new cluster. Four of the cases were included in MOH’s daily case update on Wednesday (2 Jun), while 22 will be added to the case count today (3 Jun) after their test results have been verified. The first case emerged on May 31.
In a statement on Wednesday (2 Jun), MSF said that upon the confirmation of the first case, the Home immediately took additional measures to ensure the health and well-being of all residents and staff. Testing has been administered for all 255 residents and staff, and the Home has also halted all admissions to and discharges from the Home, disallowed all visitors, and completed a thorough cleaning and disinfection of its premises.
MOH said the overall number of new cases in the community has decreased from 165 cases in the week before to 126 cases in the past week. The number of unlinked cases in the community has also fallen from 30 cases in the week before to 27 cases in the past week.
👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-mindsville-napiri-adult-disability-home-27-cases-14934222
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/minds-home-with-27-covid-19-cases-say-residents-have-not-been-on-outings-or-gone-home
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/nursing-home-staff-among-new-covid-19-cases-infection-among-those-who-went-to-sengkang
------
[0:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Yes. Gov have to take the responsibility for opening up ppl to fly in and never do enough virus scanning within the community.
[0:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: It seems like Gov is always reacting but no pro active enough in fighting this virus
[0:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Gov waited until got outbreak then do something.
[0:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +jimmy chew: I think the government is taking into consideration all factors, it's not easy to balance freedom and control, too tight people complain too lax people complaint. I feel for them, do encourage that they are doing an excellent job. I find that they are proactive as compared to other countries. So I encourage them, they can be do better for sure. I am happy that it's all well thought out, system based and data based, and that they are open to admit if react quickly when they lack. But please don't let the person who did the PMD involved. that was not properly thought out. haha
[0:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +james: For your own reading and awareness pls. I saw the Vimeo video below. Long but worth the watch. Otherwise u can read the transcript.
Effective Covid Treatments
Dr. Peter McCullough is a uniquely positioned leader in the medical field and has been the world's most prominent and vocal advocate for early outpatient treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection in order to prevent hospitalization and death. This interview on May 19, 2021 presents important insight into the influences on the entire medical landscape since Covid19 began and the orchestrated suppression of effective covid treatments in driving policy towards mass vaccinations.
https://vimeo.com/553518199
Dr. McCullough is an internist, cardiologist, epidemiologist, and Professor of Medicine at…
[1:02 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: * Do you think Singapore is ready to lift the heightened measures imposed since 16 May or should we take a more cautious approach to opening up?* Yes, because the community cases are very low, many more people are vaccinated, we have better control and handling of outbreaks, people are more responsible. We should allow eat-in dining, being outside etc, up to 2 households (since it is households not headcount that matters). Outdoor sporting activities up to 10 people.
[1:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I want to emphasise that restrictions should be based on households not headcount. If 5 people live together, then why can only 2 of them be together outside or in a cab? Makes no sense.
[1:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Also, those fully vaccinated should not be restricted. I understand this may not seem fair to some, but we need to start opening up our country and our economy and this is the best way to do it.
[1:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I spoke to someone today who attended a sports event in the US. 150,000 people were there. He was not concerned because he is fully vaccinated. Yes, it's not 100% reliable, but then nor is the flu vaccine. Yes, people will still get Covid, but we cannot eradicate it. We need to start living our lives again.
[1:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: I think we need to take a more cautious approach in some areas:
- *QUARANTINE CONFIRMED CASES IN DEDICATED FACILITIES
Relax restrictions in some areas with enhanced monitoring and enforcement:
- allow dining-in at F&B establishments with restricted numbers, safe distancing and more enforcement officers
- Better training and empowering enforcement officers
- Limit/restrict passenger load on Public transport so that safe distancing measures can be observed
- Establish rules/guidelines for "social bubbles" so that friends and families can maintain contact/interaction which is very important. Maybe create a registry and mandate the use of contact tracing tools eg. Trace Together Tokens.
[1:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: At least let's try to be careful and reasonable, but restricting vaccinated people defeats the points of the vaccine.
[1:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Agree that we need to live our lives again... but attending a mass event like that just because he is vaccinated is irresponsible in my opinion. The vaccinated person is quite well protected from CV19, but there is still a possibility that he can be a carrier and can infect another person. I think we should at least wait till the majority of the population is vaccinated first.
[1:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: We are still in the early stages of understanding the disease and how the vaccines can/cannot work. I see taking the vaccination partly as being part of a live trial that will eventually lead to improvements. Its not only about gaining "freedom".
[1:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Valli: The relaxation rules can be a little later,
1) need to get almost 80% vaccinated
2) need to contain & close the current clusters first
3) maintain the existing strict border controls until the neighbouring countries show improvement and only allow vaccinated & Covid negative travellers in.
[1:18 pm, 03/06/2021] +Valli: Am curious why still allow these travellers in?
[1:20 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: That means maintaining the current restrictions for at 6 months or so.
[1:20 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Especially not mandating Quarantine.....
[1:24 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: We should be more cautious. There are still many new clusters popping up every week. If we can just tahan maybe another 2 weeks till end of June Holidays I can say with confidence we will flatten the numbers to almost 0 community cases. This will be new Ministers showcase. My 2.14 cents
[1:29 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Singapore vaccination rate has not reached the inflection point - that can slow the spread of the covid mutants Delta - as we seen in Israel (more than 55%) and US (about 50%)
2. Singapore 1 dose is about 40.7% (2.28 million) and 2 dose is about 31.5% (1.76 million).
3. In addition, unlike US and to a small extent Israel - Singapore is a very compact city-state - where people live very closely together. Our margin for error is very small.
Any cluster will spread very fast among people (especially we still have many - in fact a big majority of unvaccinated people among us).
4. We have not reached the inflection point not to mention herd immunity of 80% herd immunity (to curb the infection mutants).
5. Based on yesterday numbers of link and unlink numbers --- the numbers are still quite high - double digits in total.
6. And the infected clusters - are 35 ---- all still open and not close.
7. And it appear in every part of Singapore --- not confine to one region - where we can effectively ring-fence them.
8. Hence, I am of the opinion that relaxing the current Phase 2 HA restriction after 15 Jun 2021 - is still premature.
It will lead to more clusters and more unlink numbers.
9. From today until 15 Jun 2021 -- if we still do not see the 35 clusters safely closed and the unlink number go down and the infection number go into a low single digits or zero and vaccination number not ramping up to at least 55% ----- I will propose to extend the Phase 2HA until such conditions are attained.
10. We must be guided by science and the infection number - in our opening up.
11. We should be careful not to hasten our opening up - while the math of infection number and science --- are not in synch with the public health safety.
[1:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: be preduent people
[1:32 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: dun get complacent and head big
[1:32 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: slap 2x in the face not enuff
[1:32 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: will strong echo to continue current state till end of june at least
[1:33 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: reduce the chances of open and close like aussie
[1:40 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. The current covid Delta mutants has dominated the world and its infectious rate is 1.5 times faster than the original covid.
2. Vietnam covid mutants hybrid Alpha and Delta are as infectious if not worst (under study by WHO).
3. These 2 mutants are now the dominant strain in Asia Pacific (not in US, and the West) except UK (who have a large South Asia residents).
4. We thus have to be more prudent and not follow US, Israel and EU in maskless and open up too prematurely.
5. UK PM Boris Johnson is in 2 mind about quick opening up of UK economy as covid mutant Delta has spread as most of their residents has only 1 jab - not sufficient to withstand the infectious Delta strain.
6. Johnson is urging their residents to quickly go for 2nd jab.
[1:41 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/scientists-call-uk-speed-second-192053199.html
Scientists call on UK to speed up second Covid jabs as India variant spreads
[1:42 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/britains-covid-19-deaths-fall-to-zero-fuelling-demands-to-end-lockdown
Britain's Covid-19 deaths fall to zero, fuelling demands to end lockdown
[1:42 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/india-variant-starts-third-wave-170340881.html
If India variant starts a third wave, England’s Covid rules may have to stay
[1:43 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/england-maps-spread-indian-variant-three-weeks-154700041.html
How fast covid-19 Delta can spread in 3 weeks in UK.
[1:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: there is an article in china about the 1st case of delta .. 1: 61
[1:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: And why SHN only?! Why not Quarantine in a facility???
[1:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: so based on that calculated imagine 61:3721.......
[1:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: think there was a chat on this yesterday not much feedback too
[1:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: i was asking the same if those incoming pr / singaporeans are postive why SHN only
[1:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: unless the intent was to list them as suspect positive?
[1:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: SHN are for those waiting for test results and close contacts right?
[1:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Once you positive NCID will catch you to quarantine liao
[1:47 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. UK mainly got 1 jab.
2. See how fast covid-19 Delta spread in just 3 weeks.
3. UK people are spread very thinly due to large land mass.
4. Singapore population density is very compact.
5. By using math, if we compute the fast infectious rate, population density, the number of unvaccinated people (more than UK people) - we may get more clusters, infection number and unlink cases in 3 weeks - if we prematurely open up without containing our link and unlink cases, closing all our current clusters and ramp up our vaccination rate to at least achieve 55%.
[1:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: see the keywords NEW CASES ......
[1:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is not suspect or suspected ...
[1:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: this had been going on for the longest time
[1:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: unless there is a new definition some where NEW CASES = including suspected cases
[1:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: It seems that everyone is keen to maintain some kind of restrictions, which is sensible. We can't just go back to 2019! I think we do need to be more selective in the measures. Let's not have restrictions for the sake of restrictions, but actually use the data we have to be more intelligent about what restrictions are needed.
[1:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Mixing Households is where we saw problems. ICA officer for example. But in all the eating out we had for many months here there were no cases at all. Is eating out really a problem?
[1:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I understand the ICA officer did actually spread it during a meal out :)
[1:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: But it was because the households were mixed that it spread so quickly.
[1:56 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Our border barriers are where the focus needs to be.
[1:56 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 1. Tighten border control and reduce ability to cross contaminate between arrivals and residents (workers)
[1:57 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 2. No mixing of households
[1:57 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 3. Maintain WFH
[1:58 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 4. Allow Vaccinated people to mix for recreation
[1:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: 4 is risky
[1:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: many results we see are those that are vaccinated also
[1:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: that's where complacent resides
[1:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is like what US and UK is happening jab / mask off / no safe distance
[2:00 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Maintain masks for vaccinated people, just allow them to mix.
[2:00 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We don't see many positive cases for vaccinated people. Hundreds of Millions have been jabbed.
[2:01 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: refer to danny input , i agree with what he says
[2:02 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Which bit?
[2:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Does it make a different how many people are vaccinated to allow Vaccinated people from different households to meet?
[2:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and dun forget though situation is contain we are still in sweeping stage
[2:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, we are also 2 more weeks away from easing restrictions.
[2:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: this is where complacency steps in ...... the focus is still have to weed out as many as possible to make sure forth coming instance can be controll
[2:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: 1 week lah where got 2 weeks
[2:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: True, 10 days :) 13th right?
[2:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I don't understand why it is complacency to allow vaccinated people from different households to meet each other. Still wear masks, wash hands etc.
[2:07 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: UK is complacent because at 55% vaccination they allow everyone to meet vaccinated or not.
[2:08 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We have not seen a fast spread from the clusters. Our cases have been consistent or reducing from 20-ish a day.
[2:09 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We cannot eradicate this and to try is to keep locking down and staying home. It will cripple our economy and that will have even worse effects.
[2:09 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Allowing vaccinated people to meet each other is a positive and effective step forward.
[2:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: we are not crippling
[2:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: crippling means more shut down
[2:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: this stage is good
[2:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: the bare minimium at least
[2:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: if we open up just one step more am sure will be back at the previous stage all happy den a few week later shit happens
[2:12 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: ok, at what point do you think we allow eat-in and household mixing, and who should be allowed to do so?
[2:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Valli: For the time being as cases are still not contain yet, & the unlink cases still lingering in the community,
Will not use Vaccination as reason to ease the measures.
Vaccination to safeguard self & not for mingling.
We still need to restrict the number of pple outside.
These measures help to prevent complacency from setting in, for now.
[2:19 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. In my opinion, I will like to propose the current Phase 2HA restriction to be extended for another 1 month.
2. This Phase 2HA restriction can be relax to Phase 2 if the following conditions are met :-
a. 35 Open clusters - close and no more infections (ie. link number) from these clusters.
b. Infection number go back to single digit or zero.
c. Unlink number in single digit or zero.
d. Vaccination rate of 2 doses reaches at least 55%.
3. Our opening up from Phase 2HA to Phase 2 - should be guided by math and science.
[2:21 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: will say keep the current situation for another 2 weeks
[2:22 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and review before the putting the key into extension or relaxation
[2:22 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: am sure we going to see more of these clustered as ghost had been among the society for the longest time
[2:22 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: and seriously speaking no one have a concreate grasp of how covid spread
[2:22 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: 1 week can be tehory A
[2:23 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: next week is theory B
[2:23 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: deb before theory C comes we are hit by mutants variant
[2:23 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is a multi front fight
[2:24 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Vaccination of 55% doesn't help those who are not vaccinated. Will you endorse different restrictions for those vaccinated and those not?
[2:24 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Do you mean until the end of June?
[2:25 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: True. We can look to other countries though and see patterns.
[2:25 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: The US is seeing a big fall in cases despite removing restrictions. The UK is seeing a small increase.
[2:25 pm, 03/06/2021] +Valli: With increasing clusters, could extend to July or even August.
[2:26 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, if it spreads.
[2:26 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Vaccination rate of 55% is only the inflection point not herd immunity (80%) - and should only be one of the condition to move from phase 2HA to phase 2 - if all other conditions are met.
[2:27 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, I'm wondering why you include Vaccination is a condition at all, since you don't think Vaccinated people are safe to meet at the moment.
[2:28 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: vaccin is to low ur percentage of getting hit
[2:28 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: it does not iron coat you from getting hit
[2:28 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: if u see the ratio of how fast this new variant is is simple maths
[2:29 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: What about vaccinated people who have tested negative in the last 3 days? Should they be allowed to meet and eat out?
[2:29 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: If we are not rolling out breath test and DIY kits, why not allow those people to mingle?
[2:29 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Why do we not impose these restrictions when there is a flu virus - which kills more people than Covid?
[2:29 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: 1:61: 3xxx: if we can afford to handle a 10k and above positive case well i say by all means open
[2:29 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: If two people are vaccinated and test negative, are we really seeing they are at risk?
[2:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: thus govt is very careful to mentioned they are looking at means to make sure regular testing is available going forth thus returning society life to certain extend
[2:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: How many vaccinated people are getting and spreading infections?
[2:30 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Mid July 2021.
At any point in time if all the conditions to relax the restrictions are met eg. End Jun 2021, government can consider opening up to phase 2 in 1 week time.
2. Why 1 month?
3. Covid Delta are known to be infectious up to 3 weeks.
4. After 3 weeks, if no more infection after another week - confirm infection curb and can open up.
5. Our opening up - must be based on and guided by science and math.
[2:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 1 in a 5,000,000 maybe?
[2:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Stella Yip: Balanced approach:
(1) Many F&B biz is dependent on dine-in.
- Please allow dine-in to save biz
- G can enforce enhanced safety measures, we all want to be safe. When next table talk and laugh loudly dun know if got covid released into the common air space.
(2) Reduce grey areas.
- Can mask down smoke on spot but cannot walk around
- Can mask down eat/drink on spot but cannot walk around
- Not discourage exhalation mask, BAN exhalation mask. Some may pretend it is filter mask not exhalation mask, how can staff stop these ppl at entry point if G dun educate and issue SOP?
[2:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: What is the math telling us about vaccination spread? It looks like almost zero.
[2:32 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Vaccination is not 100% foolproof if the majority are not vaccinated.
Vaccination only work very well when the majority are similarly vaccinated.
[2:33 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Vaccinated people don't live in a vaccum, the majority among us are still not vaccinated.
[2:35 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: base don these few days of trendss i think is extended
[2:36 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: the whole region in baking this delta cake and am sure we dun wan to be in the top 5
[2:39 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Note that only 2.28 million people either get 1 or 2 doses.
Our population is about 5.65 million.
Majority of 3.37 million people are not vaccinated.
So the unvaccinated are in the majority.
[2:39 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes so let's not open up for non vaccinated people until 80% achieved, but allow vaccinated people to mingle
[2:41 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1 dose effective rate is 33%.
2 doses efficacy is 88%.
Against the most infectious covid-19 Delta.
The odd stack against fast spreading - if put into math model - project a fast spreading among the community - if we now open up the restrictions prematurely.
[2:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I think we should allow vaccinated people to dine in, that's a simple low risk step forward to easing measures. Staff would also need to be vaccinated or test negative every 3 days.
[2:43 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Unless everyone forehead is stamp with vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Break up the family - those vaccinated stay together, unvaccinated move into a camp for unvaccinated people.
Baby cannot vaccinate have to live in childcare for unvaccinated.
[2:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Huh? Singpass shows if you are vaccinated. Don't need a stamp on your head.
[2:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: All childcare under 12 will be for unvaccinated...
[2:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Stella Yip: Should G test ppl vaccinated abroad to be sure that they were indeed vaccinated before they are allowed to mingle with ppl vaccinated by G? Too many fake docs from overseas?
[2:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Households can stay together obviously, that's the point. Don't manage numbers based on headcount, manage based on Households.
[2:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, they can take the test that shows antibodies are present
[2:47 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Administrative nightmare!
Discontentment will arise.
Until the full immunisation schedule is put in place - unified approach such as the current phase implementation need to be put in place.
[2:49 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Now with mask and social distancing measures - even with SDA, Police go around enforcing - there's still so many breaches.
Anyone think distinguishing Vaccination and unvaccinated policy - easy to implement?
It will be an administrative nightmare, and there will be more abuses - virus can break through faster.
[2:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Stella Yip: Sounds good. Is it expensive? Hope not too expensive until become deterrent
[2:56 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Unless we see the number coming down.
And all the conditions for relaxation met.
Restrictions should still maintain.
Relaxation is a passport to higher infection number and will make it worst.
We should be guided by number - math and science - not gut feeling.
Don't happy happy relax and then when infection go up - quickly close again.
The population morale will be hit more adversely.
We should do the right thing - not happy happy thing - that later turn out to be wrong.
[2:57 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes - what are the numbers and science telling us? Seems like we didn't see a big spike these last few weeks, which we would have done if it was as virulent as that.
[2:58 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-jun-2-community-455-sengkang-west-avenue-testing-14930718
24 new community COVID-19 infections in Singapore; cases detected among visitors to shops at 455 Sengkang West Avenue
[2:58 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-mindsville-napiri-adult-disability-home-27-cases-14934222
27 COVID-19 cases at MINDSville@Napiri Adult Disability Home in Hougang
[3:00 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/all-26-hua-zai-food-outlets-closed-until-june-14-due-to-likely-covid-19-transmission
26 Hua Zai chicken rice stall - suspected of chain transmission.
All over Singapore.
[3:01 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
If these are not uncontrolled state - what is?
[3:16 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Airport food court.
2. Anchorvale food court.
3. Hua Zai food chain
All are the big source of transmission.
Are we learning a lesson from it - or we fool hardy - happy happy die die must open - when numbers and facts tell us that food chain is the super spreader events?
A good number vaccinated are infected through food source.
Are we blinded to such facts?
[3:20 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: So what is Tracetogether for?
[3:20 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Gov still can't trace it
[3:21 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevin: TraceTogether is to trace together as one nation one Singapore
[3:24 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Trace to import cases
[3:26 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: 👏🏻👍🏻
[3:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: How many of these were vaccinated? I think we all agree unvaccinated people are at risk.
[3:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes and that is why unvaccinated people need to avoid places, and not be allowed to eat there.
[3:32 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We have to show our TT on arrival, why not show the Vaccination through Singpass?
[3:32 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
93 vaccinated people are infected in this current wave.
Vaccination is not 100% guarantee.
[3:33 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: no it's not 100% we know that. We do need to know - how contagious is a vaccinated person? how ill do they get (mild headache?)? How many vaccinated people have transmitted to other vaccinated people? These are the useful questions to answer so we can take a measured approach and not just be scared into submission.
[3:34 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Fully vaccinated people - 12% can break through as efficacy is 88% against Delta variants.
2. 1 jab - 67% can break through as it is only 33% effective.
Vaccination don't make us become superman.
[3:35 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Do we need to be Superman before we open up again? If so, then we are stuck at home forever. ;) No one is saying Superman. I think we should accept as human beings we might get ill sometimes, common cold, flu, covid, stomach upset, dengue etc.
[3:36 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We don't have a Dengue vaccine, but still go out when Mosquitos are present.
[3:36 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We don't have cancer vaccine, but still let people smoke
[3:36 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We do have a Covid vaccine but are stopping people go to eat.
[3:37 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I don't think anyone here is going to change anyone's mind and likely we will start repeating ourselves :)
[3:37 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: It's all good feedback though and I respect everyone's opinion.
[3:38 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Until all the conditions are met.
I support extending the restrictions.
My personal desire to open up no matter how I like - won't override the national interest - that put the whole nation at risk.
[3:38 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I don't have the answer, nor does anyone else. We just have our best guesses, hopes and fears!
[3:39 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: In the end, Gov will look at all the options and use the best data they have to balance with public opinion. I suspect the measures will be extended until end of June when the school holidays end.
[3:39 pm, 03/06/2021] +Rama: Same Here
[3:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Or cut short the June holidays?
[3:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Then Sep longer holidays
[3:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Or year end
[3:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: When majority have been vaccinated
[3:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +Anne: Since we still have community cases with some still unlinked, I suggest we take a more cautious approach to opening up. Some areas we can look into:
- to allow dine in for 1 person
- to restrict people per event or museums / libraries based on sqm per person rather than absolute number
- all with proper social distancing of 1m with masks or 2m without masks (when eating / drinking)
- help building / facilities management on measures to improve ventilation and/or other areas
[3:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Good idea but is it feasible? Cos we are vaccinating the school children in June right?
[3:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Can allow 1 pax dine in
[3:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Or outdoor dine in
[3:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Anyway most parents are WFH
[3:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Shane: I saw people commenting that they are open earlier today. Not sure if it is really closed as it should have been. Maybe there were some new development ?
[3:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: No I mean schools are used as inoculation centres
[3:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Huh
[3:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: They go CC and ITE
[3:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: ITE got convention center space
[3:53 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
35 community cases.
How to relax phase 2 HA?
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Cos the old folks home 22 pax count into today’s numbers
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Most from the special need center
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: I guess it’s backdated cases
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: But they are all vaccinated
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: So no symptoms
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Sorry my bad special need center
[3:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: So maybe those that have been vaccinated, have to be test more often?
Since they will not have symptoms
[3:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Until majority have been given a chance to be jab
[4:00 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: 45 new Covid-19 cases in S'pore including 35 in community, 22 of which part of MINDSville@Napiri cluster
There were 45 new coronavirus cases confirmed as at noon on Thursday (June 3), taking Singapore's total to 62,145. Thursday's figure comprised 35 new community cases, said the Ministry of Health (MOH).
Twenty-two of Thursday's community cases were from the MINDSville@Napiri cluster, where 255 residents and staff were tested following a 37-year-old female resident's positive test on Monday.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/45-new-covid-19-cases-in-spore-including-35-in-community-22-of-which-part-of
[4:09 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: Police ramp up crime awareness during Covid-19 to fight scams
Police had to ramp up crime awareness during the Covid-19 pandemic as scammers targeted unwitting victims, said Assistant Commissioner of Police Zed Teo.
Scammers had moved to e-commerce sites and claimed to be selling masks and hand sanitisers, he told the media earlier this week.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/police-ramp-up-crime-awareness-during-covid-19-to-fight-scams
[4:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Daphne See: Omg
[4:23 pm, 03/06/2021] +Rama: Criminals will look for opportunities still during these times
[4:34 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CPpZXKOHwNz/?utm_medium=share_sheet
[4:34 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Haiz
[4:34 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Saw that too
[4:34 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/27-covid-19-cases-in-mindsvillenapiri-in-hougang-residents-have-not-been-on-outings-or
This one also problem
[4:37 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We do need to start looking at the seriousness of the infection. One case is not the same as another. What is happening with recovery? Hospitalisation? ICU?
[4:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: https://www.facebook.com/129011692114/posts/10157941851652115/?d=n
[4:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Maybe we should Jap by the whole family in the house
[4:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: If someone don't want to jab, all cannot jab then
[4:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: For that house
[4:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Err then if one don’t want jab all cannot jab? 😅
[4:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Ya
[4:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Some due to medical reason then how?
[4:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Can jab SINOVAC right?
[4:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Not sure why it is not under the national vaccination program
[4:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Lol cause not many want to take
[4:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Maybe not efficient rate not high
[4:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: I wonder if we can jab more than one type? Since sinovac no one want
[4:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Means these grp very poor thing. Got to pay to get SINOVAC
[4:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: Can. The Prof say one. The one always on TV
[4:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Oh… maybe I go take after my jab finish
[4:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ken: Don’t mind being test subject for study
[4:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: [Sent by Gov.sg – 3 Jun]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 35 new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.
Based on investigations so far, the cases are in the community, and there are no new cases in the dormitories.
There are 10 imported cases, who have already been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 45 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh030621update
[4:56 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: Hidden Covid-19 cases in S'pore community 'very concerning': Lawrence Wong
The "hidden" Covid-19 cases that continue to circulate within the community remain a cause for concern, said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong on Thursday (June 3), adding that the recent coronavirus outbreak in a home for intellectually disabled adults is a "stark reminder" of this fact.
➡️ Facebook Video : https://fb.watch/5UkbPdIfpT/
➡️ Media Report : https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/hidden-covid-19-cases-in-spore-community-very-concerning-lawrence-wong
[5:01 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: In Singapore we have 2 serious cases. 2. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
[5:02 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevin: Hidden Covid-19 cases in S'pore community 'very concerning': Lawrence Wong
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/hidden-covid-19-cases-in-spore-community-very-concerning-lawrence-wong
[5:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Elena Woo: Concerning is alr too late. Virus already creeped through from overseas to community via the borders.
[5:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: 😂
[5:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Big drop in recreation time, but still we have cases. Does this mean they are not linked?
[5:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Big increase in residential time - and we see more cases. Does this mean being outdoors is better?
[5:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: u mean ofc
[5:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: and malls?
[5:07 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: People are at work less. But still we see cases. Maybe we need to understand better how this is spreading. Look at the evidence and target that, rather than the blanket ban on everyone and everything.
[5:07 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: 👍
[5:08 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Small drop in Supermakets and Chemists:
[5:09 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 40% had at least one dose of the vaccine and making good progress.
[5:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +CQ: One thing I've noted is that whilst our experts have said that public transport is safe and therefore don't list them, there's literally nothing accounting for how the positive cases get to the malls/offices. It's not like they teleport.
In contrast, places like Australia include public transport in their daily list of "where the positive cases have been to".
[5:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Not a much change in cases over the last 30 days, despite the restrictions
[5:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Elena Woo: I agree
[5:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Changes over the last 60 days. Are the restrictions making much difference?
[5:12 pm, 03/06/2021] +Elena Woo: Esp if the people are travelling longer distances like more than 30 minutes? E.g. from tampines to jurong.
[5:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, this would be a useful study
[5:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: tracetogether app or token will idendify these people as close contact?
[5:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: maybe remove ezlink card, scan the TT app or token instead
[5:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: lol
[5:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Buses and Train traffic, down as expected.
[5:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Hence we shouldn’t lift out the Heighten Measures
[5:14 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Maybe - but where is the evidence the HA is making much difference? That's why I propose allowing some easing for vaccinated people as a way to start opening up.
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: allow outdoor dine in?
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes we should be concerned, so let's be proactive, not just shut ourselves away.
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, for one this seems a very appropriate step forward.
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +CQ: Al fresco dining? 😏
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: ya
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +CQ: With a side of bird poop? 🤭🤭
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Sounds a bit European, lol
[5:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: but not many shops will have tese
[5:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: these
[5:16 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Good that Minister Lawrence Wong are in synch with me
[5:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: True, but at least the ones that do can work.
[5:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I think he is in sync with everyone. We are all concerned. It's what we do about it that matters.
[5:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Cases have fallen down you can see the graph every night
[5:18 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 31 cases are the highest in a week.
[5:20 pm, 03/06/2021] +CQ: I would even go as far as to say that the mere fact that the graph is not an exponential hike shows we're doing something right.
[5:26 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: 👍🏻 well said!
[5:28 pm, 03/06/2021] +CQ: Not well said lah. Maybe it's my bar that's on the ground after 1 year of desensitising to the numbers. 🤭
[5:40 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: i hope you realise that this statement is untrue, The only reason we have less deaths from CV19 is precisely because of the restrictions we had, and continue to have. Just have to look at what's happening in India.
[5:42 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: No you’re exactly right
[5:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Seeing how we contain the infection numbers quickly and the trend is coming down is precisely the point that our measures are working
[5:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Now is not the time to rest though we need to reduce it to single digit for community cases
[5:44 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Imagine NDP and F1 period we have lockdown
[5:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: I think the focus should be on how to contain the spread.
What we do know, is that vaccinated persons can still catch CV19.
We also know that it is paramount, to isolate infected/infectious persons and people who had been potentially exposed to the CV19, as soon as possible to limit the spread.
So, to address the above, it would help to (1) limit the number of unique/different contacts ie. create exclusive "social bubbles" of reasonable aka small group sizes and (2) be extra diligent with Trace Together check-in/out, TT tokens etc.
And most of all, be socially responsible and encourage others to be as well. Act/behave with the intent to protect not just yourself, but everyone around you. If we can do that. then we have a good chance to get life back to "normal".
[5:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: It's not true or untrue. It's a question not a statement. I realise it's an extreme point, but we need to shake off the fear that the virus kills everything it touches. The evidence shows that it is a terrible virus yes and contagious, but we don't know how the current cases are suffering. If 40 people get covid and a fever for 2 days, does that mean closing the country?
[5:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +An fan: https://twitter.com/ingrahamangle/status/1400068686199803904?s=24
[5:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: It might if we lockdown as soon as 10 people are reporting cases. We have to learn to manage not lockdown.
[5:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: I disagree
[5:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: We may view it as normal but other countries won’t
[5:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, and in that case restrict all household mixing. Stop it entirely. That's a measure that makes sense.
[5:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: If we say no big deal just ignore soon cases will be spreading out of control
[5:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: You don't think we need to learn to manage it?
[5:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: And other countries will just ban their citizens from traveling to our country
[5:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: End up we get the short end of the stick
[5:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: The West is managing with it, not locking down. I think they are going too far.
[5:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: No one is saying that
[5:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I'm saying manage it, not ignore it.
[5:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Hence I support HA at least the time being
[5:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Yes, we all do I think. Until the 13th.
[5:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: What we do know, is that a rising number of infected carriers = faster and more mutations
The first strains identified in Wuhan, was contagious, but had a very low mortality rate.
The subsequent mutations have resulted in highly contagious/infectious strains.
Will subsequent mutations result in versions that are highly contagious + more deadly? The maths and science says yes.
Are we going to wait till we have a strain that is highly contagious+deadly before we "surrender"? Will it be too late by then?
[5:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Some are saying continue it
[5:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We don't know that for vaccinated people.
[5:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: The spread by vaccinated people might be very low and symptoms almost like a headache.
[5:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Do we lock down because people get a headache? No.
[5:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I'm asking what the effects are of all these new cases. Are they serious, ICU, hospital? Many are not even showing symptoms.
[5:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We need to understand the context not just react to a number.
[5:56 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: We also know for a fact, that if we do not suppress the number of infections, even at the current low percentage of patients who will need ICU care, the number of cases will overwhelm our medical facilities/system.
Don't forget that CV19 is not the only illness that our medical system is taking care of. I personally have experienced our hospital sending a hospitalised relative home earlier than initially planned because the hospital needed to prepare for the rise in CV19 cases. This happened just before the current Phase 2HA restrictions kicked in.
[5:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: It seems that the vaccine has so far helped to suppress the symptoms of infected persons so they do not fall extremely ill. However, the medical evidence so far is still not conclusive because it might have helped that the viral load is not high. This in turn, is likely helped by the fact that we have effective measures in place eg. wearing of maks etc.
But, vaccinated carriers are still infectious and can spread the virus to others, the majority of whom (according to our vaccination rate/data) are still not vaccinated.
[6:01 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Now with our current vaccination rate, we cannot follow the west example of treating covid like mild flu and open up.
2. It will be foolhardy and suicidal as the majority are not vaccinated.
3. We only can treat covid as in endemic state - when 100% of population are immunised - so that no unvaccinated people will get infected and succumb to serious illness or death.
[6:02 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: still on the topic to open or close ahhh
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Do you need to have your skull cracked open by a hammer to understand that it is going to hurt a lot and will probably result in serious damage?
Not everything should be learnt through direct/personal experience. Learning through observation/others' mistakes also works...esp. when making the mistake can potentially be fatal.
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: open lor, whoever want to go out, go out
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: I support continuing HA until we get single digit community cases
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: answer is IS NOT UP TO US TO DETERMINED
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: hahahahahah
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: i support HA for 2 more weeks
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: but Reach asking us
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: lol
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: after all whats the issue now
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is not CB
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: reach is collecting feedback niah
[6:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: maybe go in CB?
[6:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: to listen to how the grd feel
[6:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: will it help?
[6:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Caleb: if CB for 2 weeks
[6:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no we will not go into CB unless overnite we hung by 4 figures value
[6:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: just stay as HA is good for certain business and people
[6:04 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: However HA can be adjusted for more events if cases are coming down
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: stop arguing economy ... if crash on day 1 of HA will crash already we will see ppl becoming super man
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Eg outdoor or al fresco dining as others suggested
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: dun be complacent is the key
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: at this point
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: abit of results head big
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: also not everytime the west is correct in their approach please
[6:05 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: when u eco society and business die
[6:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: u think the west will be angel to save you in such times
[6:06 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is every country for themselves now
[6:09 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The trajectory is going up, not down.
And there are 3 options that Government can consider :-
1. Relax phase 2 HA.
- Guarantee the infection number will go up.
Not a good option.
2. Extend phase 2 HA by another month and quicken the pace of Vaccination - infection number will hold steady and when Vaccination rate go up - the infection number will go down.
But this will take sometime - thus the need to extend phase 2 HA.
3. Further tighten phase 2 HA to 2 EHA (Enhanced Heightened Alert).
This will help to reduce the infection number faster as Vaccination will also help.
But this is not my preferred choice - as it will impact the economy, business and jobs.
My preferred option is 2.
[6:09 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: It is not zero, One of the recent cases - nurse from TTSH was vaccinated but got infected.
I can hear your frustrations, but, what is important to understand here, is that the number is low now, because of all the other measures we have in place - group size limits, mask, social distancing, no clubbing/partying, music in restaurants etc to have the volume lowered so that patrons do not need to shout over the music to be heard....
Like I said, you just need to look at what is happening in India - which is also vaccinating its population - to understand that vaccination on its own, especially when the majority are not vaccinated yet, is insufficient.
[6:10 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: we dun speak for the society but here are the few small voices from the grd ...
[6:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: again like i said earlier do we want to be slap the 2nd time in the face ...
[6:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: that's the question
[6:11 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is siutaion really so bad 90% of business are dying
[6:12 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: All very good points from the ground here
[6:12 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: in fact i think anything to do with food is making a good business
[6:12 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Hope the MMTF consider seriously before lifting the measures
[6:12 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: cos ppl have to eat ya
[6:13 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: is those selling non food and services that is suffering
[6:14 pm, 03/06/2021] +Joseph Ong: Do you live alone?
Do you have kids who are too young to be vaccinated?
Do you have parents/relative you live with who is unsuitable to be vaccinated due to health?
Do you understand that this pandemic requires all of us to be selfless rather than selfish in order to be defeated?
I have taken my first shot and will be completing my 2nd shot in the coming days... but I still think its more prudent to keep restrictions in place. Why? Because it is not just about I, me and myself.
[6:14 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: We have help for them the gov using 800million
[6:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: not enuff de like taxi driving one day earn 50 enuff ?
[6:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then you want to lift the HA restrictions?
[6:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: for self enuff for those who need to feed family of say 3 (min) is barely doable
[6:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Get slap in the face again?
[6:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: did i say that
[6:15 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then what you saying?
[6:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: did u see what i was saying ...
[6:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: nvm
[6:16 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: On one hand you say must be prudent don’t anyhow lift HA on the other you saying ppl not making ends meet so I assume you infer to reopen?
[6:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: to continue is best we keep status quo for now espically at the border (yesterday and today there were queries about "cases"id but given SHN"..... should not this be given quaratine
[6:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: If not just say out what government should do and don’t beat around bush
[6:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Go straight to the point
[6:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Do self employed need more help?
[6:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: yawn ..
[6:17 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Or what?
[6:21 pm, 03/06/2021] +Matthew: I think we cannot generalise.. some f&b do well, some non-f&b do well, some self-employed do well this period... and there are those within the exact same industries and lines that dont do well. It is not possible for a good govt policy to cover everyone and everything.
[6:22 pm, 03/06/2021] +Matthew: Alot of people are suffering in terms of finances due to covid, and it's not realistic or possible for the govt to bear all the losses for the people (by giving grants and monies).
[6:27 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: no one is asking for extra $$ from ah gong here but to open based on economy is dying, business need to survive i think is not a valid reason at this stage
[6:27 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: espically calling to help fnb
[6:28 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: like some of the ideas provision here not to say they are not good but not that this stage of things are being handle
[6:29 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: If we just react to a number we could be taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, or a skull(!). I'm asking what the observations are for current cases. We have 550 active cases and 2 in Serious condition. What are the others like? I'm not suggesting we get as many people as infected as possible to see happens. There are 20-30 cases reported everyday but nothing about their seriousness.
[6:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: last time round i hear of ppl complaining bto delay so cannot close, no workers to clean the road cannot close, what else ooo yeah want eat outside cannot close , back to these group if the numbers does one day jump like the past how will you feel, that is to the extend of maybe worst den CB we faced before .....that will really see more shop wind up
[6:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Why? Won't the numbers just go back up after that? We need a more intelligent approach than just picking a number....
[6:30 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: but everyone also have there needs and view
[6:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: like i mentioned again end decision IS NOT US THESE FEW LITTLE KITTENS MEOWING HERE to make the decision else it will be us sitting at the press conference arrowing each other for an answer
[6:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: got prize ahhh if govt follow ur decision
[6:31 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: % is almost zero. Of course some vaccinated people will get infected. But how seriously? Do they also spread it?
[6:32 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: suck it up whatever we think just give it to Reach the brains will know how best to handle ... maybe mix here patch there -> new approach which we did not think off
[6:32 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I am agreeing with the current measures, just looking to loosen them up after June 13th especially for vaccinated people.
[6:33 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: It's not insufficient if non vaccinated people stay home and vaccinated people don't spread it. That would be very satisfactory and allow our economy to open up.
[6:34 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I am the only one in the house to be vaccinated so far, my wife is soon and my kid is only 10.
[6:34 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: I'm not suggesting anyone be selfless, equally I am not saying we close our borders and shut everyone inside. No one is being so extreme on either side.
[6:35 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: ben bottom line is vaccine ppl are not special also .. we are even more dangerous then those who are not vaccine cos our symptoms are stealth ....
[6:35 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: i i read correctly what some are explaining here
[6:35 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: thus blanket rule now is still the best
[6:35 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: loosen up no need to fight for it
[6:36 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: i will say read between the line and answer is already given to u
[6:36 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We don't know that. I'm asking if there is any evidence that vaccinated people are contagious, and if they are do they spread a very mild version.
[6:37 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: If you hear a lion roar do you hide in your cave and starve, or go see where it might be and work around it?
[6:40 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: No if it would then what’s the point of vaccination and HA?
[6:43 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Because unless we eradicate it and close the borders, cases will indeed re-emerge occasionally, just as they did this time.
[6:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: Under the current Phase 2 (Heightened Alert) measures that came into effect on May 16, dining-in at food and beverage outlets is not allowed and gatherings are limited to two people. Work from home should also be the default.
[6:45 pm, 03/06/2021] +Kevinn Wang: think the work fr,m home default better change to mandatory hahahaha else how to ensure human movement is reduce
[6:46 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:47 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: I disagree. What we are doing is to buy time to vaccinate as many people as we can and delay the spread until more are vaccinated.
[6:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +An fan: Yeah, the daily reported 20+ cases, very serious or mild only?
[6:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Once majority are vaccinated then we can treat it like common flu
[6:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Ok, so stay on HE until Sept?
[6:48 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: See above
[6:49 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: ☝🏻
[6:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +An fan: The vaccines are still experimental.
[6:50 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: Ok, we are at 40% now, maybe 50% by June 13th :)
[6:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: We are at around 180,000 per week currently
[6:51 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Don’t sprout nonsense pls
[6:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: 1.7 million not even close to 40%
[6:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 50% of population is how many?
[6:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 2.281.154
[6:52 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: First dose
[6:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Taking all residents 5million
[6:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: You didn't say fully vaccinated so be more precise or don't accuse others of nonsense
[6:53 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: 2.281 is just shy of 50% for a first dose
[6:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: I won’t consider 50% majority
[6:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Ben: OK 51% then, for a technicality
[6:54 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Possible
[6:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: So June is critical period as we vaccinate the kids
[6:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: HA until June end
[6:55 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Then we can talk about lifting all measures
[6:58 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Save the old and young and we can reopen
[6:59 pm, 03/06/2021] +Smiley face: Stability and progression are not mutually exclusive
"... Stability and advancement must always be in balance.”
-- Li Ka-shing
[7:00 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/if-youre-vaccinated-can-you-transmit-covid-19-what-we-know
COVID-19 Transmission After Vaccination: What We Know
- Scientists are still working to figure out how well COVID-19 vaccines prevent vaccinated people from transmitting the virus to others.
- Health experts caution that until the majority of people are vaccinated, we should continue to wear masks in public, regardless of our vaccination status.
- Once enough people in the community are vaccinated, the risk of transmission after vaccination becomes less of an issue.
[7:00 pm, 03/06/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[7:02 pm, 03/06/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes and no.
[7:03 pm, 03/06/2021] +Alvin Lim: Gdnite Megan
=========
No comments:
Post a Comment