REACH 157 - Tracetogether Token (SK)
26 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:50 am, 26/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,
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Megan 😊
REACH
[10:58 am, 26/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢
What do you think of the Trace Together-only Safe Entry scheme, which will be mandatory at all public venues?
There is no need for Singaporeans to rush to collect the TraceTogether tokens, said Minister-in-charge of the Smart Nation Initiative Vivian Balakrishnan on Sunday (Oct 25).
The contact tracing devices can currently be collected at 38 community centres, but will be available at all 108 community centres by the end of next month. Dr Balakrishnan said that from Monday, Singaporeans are advised to collect their tokens from their own community clubs and use the Token Go Where website to see when the schedule for distribution would begin in their areas.
Dr Balakrishnan said: "I would also make the assurance that the implementation of the TraceTogether-only Safe Entry programme will not proceed until we make sure that everyone has access to either a token or the app and is comfortable using it."
The multi-ministry task force tackling Covid-19 on Tuesday (Oct 20), with TraceTogether-only SafeEntry to be rolled out progressively from this month, and that by the end of December, checking in with the TraceTogether app or token will be mandatory at all public venues in Singapore, including restaurants, workplaces, schools and shopping malls.
What is TraceTogether-only SafeEntry?
TraceTogether-only SafeEntry is the only way members of the public can check in at a public venue by using the app or token.
Currently, other options for checking in with SafeEntry include scanning the SafeEntry QR code with your phone camera, or the SingPass mobile app, or the bar codes on your NRIC.
You will not need to do any of these once TraceTogether-only SafeEntry is implemented.
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/what-do-i-need-to-know-about-compulsory-tracetogether-check-in-from-end-december
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/collect-tracetogether-tokens-at-nearest-cc-no-rush-necessary-vivian-balakrishnan
👉 https://token.gowhere.gov.sg
+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.
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Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:00 am, 26/10/2020] +: It's a good move to ensure that everyone is "covered"
But I wonder if those who already have the app should still go and collect the token anyway when it's more of a priority for those without the app?
Caleb
[11:01 am, 26/10/2020] +: optional lor
[11:01 am, 26/10/2020] +: if u still want to token, can still go collect
[11:01 am, 26/10/2020] +: *the
+ changed the group description. Click to view.
[11:03 am, 26/10/2020] +: https://token.gowhere.gov.sg/ need to link on the app too
[11:03 am, 26/10/2020] +: for ppl to read up on the mobile app
Rama
[11:03 am, 26/10/2020] +: App may be affected by isp network or phone battery low so physical token helps.
Berny
[11:04 am, 26/10/2020] +: I think it will be nice if it means making everyone collect and use the physical token instead of the app, although I know that it means moving backwards for the smart nation initiative, but there are bound to be some people who turn off their bluetooth when they are not required to show/scan.
[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Straits Times
Workplace convenience, saving phone battery power among reasons for rush for TraceTogether tokens
Fabian Koh
PUBLISHED OCT 24, 2020, 7:12 PM SGT
The draining of smartphone batteries, convenience in the workplace and security concerns were among the reasons given by those who rushed to collect their TraceTogether tokens on Saturday (Oct 24).
Mr Rudi said that even though there is a TraceTogether smartphone app, he prefers not to use it as it drains his phone battery.
"I work as an IT engineer in a pharmaceutical setting. As I enter many labs and facilities, I can't bring my phone around all the time," he added.
" I also don't want to leave my phone's Bluetooth on all the time for security reasons."
Sales manager Ho Kai Peng, 37, who was there to collect seven tokens for her family, said: "Some of my friends have the app, but I worry that it's battery draining. I don't carry a power bank around with me."
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[8:52 pm, 20/03/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
(1) If bluetooth don't need to do pairing to work - with exchange key - then it will be a big security loopholes.
(2) A hacker can just turn on his bluetooth, get 1m - 5m near you - and download a malware into your smartphone, do middleman attack - and steal all your data.
(3) This is precisely my security concern --- in turning the bluetooth wireless on.
(4) Even with pairing and security pin - I am already concern about its static key that can be easily hack.
[2:24 pm, 21/03/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
(1) Assessing the use of Tracetogether Mobil Apps - to help in contact tracing.
a. Concept very good - as it is a good productivity tool - that can facilitate MOH in contact tracing.
b. Mobile apps - security is deem sufficient as no personal details are downloaded or exchange between phone - only temp id that are securely stored in each handphone. Info. only released upon contact to Authorities only - and no lost of personal data to unknown parties.
c. The only problem is - this mobile apps use a communication technology (blue tooth security)that is security vulnerable - with no or very fragile security --- that allows hackers to hack any handphone quite easily.
d. Why does the mobile apps require "bluetooth" to facilitate the use of the mobile apps?
i. bluetooth distance is about 10m (unblock) or about 1 to 5 meters if many obstacles.
ii. also bluetooth within range (when turn on) will be able to detect any bluetooth devices within its smartphone (so any infected person with handphone bluetooth turn on) --- will be detected an download to the mobile apps.
iii. when the 2 person exceed the distance of 10 meters - the bluetooth signal drop -- and indicate the 2 person devices are no longer in close contact - so bluetooth is a good comms for contact tracing.
(2) But the problem is bluetooth security is a big concern.
a. Bluetooth use no security or very fragile security (static key with only a 6-5 pin key) - that can be easily hack by a man-in-the-middle attack.
b. Hacker once see a guy or gal turn on the Tracetogether mobile apps --- will know that he/she use bluetooth (without even need to turn on his devices to detect any bluetooth signal).
c. Hacker will simply download a malware to his "pair bluetooth" devices if no bluetooth security or after hacking a bluetooth 5-6 pin key --- will download a malware ( and then leave).
d. Each time the hackee do eCommerce transaction eg. do banking, buy or sell share, access his CPF, etc ---- the malware with keylogger - will capture the hackee id, password, the SMS OTP that drop into his handphone and pipe them to the hacker server --- who will then use hackee id, password and sms otp to access his banking, share, cpf ----- and transfer their money, sell their share, transfer out the cpf balances etc to the hacker account --- each time the hackee access the internet via 4G or secure wi-fi to do their digital transaction.
e. The above is what the hackee is preparing to lose - by "attracting bluetooth coronatrojan" into their handphone --- and hacker only need to infiltrate once --- but steal always --- without the hackee knowing.
Now then what is a more secured way to to Tracetogether mobile apps?
aka datang .....
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[6:14 pm, 14/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. There's no financial incentives to hack a Bluetooth token as there are no sensitive user bank credentials to be stolen.
2. Apps stored in the token is encrypted. Even if hack and stolen is not useful to the hackers.
3. No financial loss to public users.
4. That's why I support the Bluetooth token.
----
[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
But people's preferences will also be taken into account, as some Singaporeans have given feedback that they prefer using the token to the app, said Dr Balakrishnan.
"I want to provide people with that option, because the key thing is participation - the overall participation in the TraceTogether programme," he said.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] +: Hahaha let's wait for the Bluetooth Monologue
[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] +: Lai liao
[11:08 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Straits Times
WP calls for minimum wage 'right now' while PAP, PSP cite need for higher productivity: IPS forum
Grace Ho
Senior Political Correspondent
UPDATED OCT 23, 2020, 4:47 PM
Progress Singapore Party (PSP) assistant secretary-general, Mr Francis Yuen, said wages are just one part of overall business costs, and the key is to raise productivity and reduce over-reliance on foreign workers.
When asked if there is consensus in the Workers' Party on how soon should Singapore implement a minimum wage, Sengkang MP Louis Chua said the party is keen to do it "right now".
The WP does not see a minimum wage and Singapore's Progressive Wage Model (PWM) as diametrically opposed, he said.
The PWM - a framework where workers can earn higher salaries as they upgrade their skills - has been the subject of robust debate in Parliament.
The WP is pushing for full-time Singaporean workers to be paid a minimum of $1,300 a month.
Progress Singapore Party (PSP) assistant secretary-general, Mr Francis Yuen, said wages are just one part of overall business costs, and the key is to raise productivity and reduce over-reliance on foreign workers.
"It should not be a system where foreign workers are brought in because they are cheap."
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My comments:
PAP and PSP talk more sense - because PWM is anchor on economic ground.
Both advocate the need to improve productivity before raising wages.
WP say raise wage right away, don't care about productivity.
If minimum wage is bulldoze through, there will be 3 consequences :-
a. Increase prices of all its products or services - with no corresponding increase in quantity or quality - and consumers will not buy - business suffer.
b. Fire local workers - and employ foreign workers.
c. If business cost increase, but no increase in business profit - either reduce local staff, employ foreign workers or fold up.
Now I have more respect for PSP - who throw away partisan thinking by supporting PAP's reasoning in dropping minimum wages but implementing PWM - by embracing ideas that are sound and genuinely help Singaporeans and Singapore.
[11:08 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
-----
Research done by :-
IZA World of Labor
Evidence based Policy Making
Joseph J. Sabia
San Diego State University, USA, and IZA, Germany
Proponents of minimum wage increases have argued that
such hikes can serve as an engine of economic growth
and assist low-skilled individuals during downturns in the
business cycle.
However, a *review of the literature provides
little empirical support for these claims*.
*Minimum wage increases redistribute gross domestic product away
from lower-skilled industries and toward higher-skilled
industries and are largely ineffective in assisting the poor
during both peaks and troughs in the business cycle*.
*Minimum wage-induced reductions in employment are
found to be larger during economic recessions*.
Cons - Minimum Wage
- Increases to the minimum wage redistribute the
composition of industry-specific productivity in
ways that harm some low-skilled workers rather
than produce net economic growth.
- Minimum wage increases reduce employment
more for less-skilled individuals during times
of macroeconomic recessions as compared to
expansions.
- Minimum wages are not well targeted to poor or
near-poor individuals across the business cycle.
- Minimum wage increases are ineffective at
reducing poverty during both business cycle peaks
and troughs.
[11:08 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Conclusion :-
Government, Union (compromising worker leaders representing workers) and Business (include all industry sectors) - Tripartite Alliance - shoot down "Minimum Wages" and adopt "Progressive Wage Model" (PWM) - by raising workers' productivities and then raise their wages. (not raise the minimum wages - with no corresponding increase in productivities).
This wage policy will go a long way to solidify Singapore business and labor competitiveness vis-a-vis the World Labour market.
This will ensure that investors will continue to invest in Singapore, business can continue to survive and thrive, Singaporean workers can improve their productivity and at the same time fetch higher salaries.
[11:10 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
WP calls for minimum wage 'right now' while PAP, PSP cite need for higher productivity: IPS forum
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/wp-calls-for-minimum-wage-right-now-while-pap-psp-cite-need-for-higher
Ken
[11:10 am, 26/10/2020] +: Min wage have to come with productivity if not.. higher wage with same productivity 🤦♂️
Caleb
[11:11 am, 26/10/2020] +: Have u talked to the team in gov tech on ur concern?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:12 am, 26/10/2020] +: Hahaha wait for Desmond to spawn 😂
[11:13 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is the most important gist of why PWM is better than minimum wage.
It is our National competitiveness.
We have to go by objective, transparent based policy decision making.
Not partisan based politics.
[11:14 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This tracetogether token Vs tracetogether apps is the most talk about topics.
That's why tracetogether token is recommended.
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-king-covid-19-state-of-emergency-13350514 King disallow PM Muhiyiddin from declaring state of emergency.
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I see how Trump cause havoc to US and the world.
I also see how Malaysia politics degraded into a state that now become a government of turmoil and changing government like changing clothes.
I just hope that Singapore will not end up like that.
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hopefully Singapore politics will not end up like Malaysia.
Else the whole country will suffer.
Caleb
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: there is a group chat in telegram by govtech
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: u can post ur concerns there
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: search for: TraceTogether
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Actually, they are all very intelligent e.g. To use emergency law to protect themselves. Why not put their minds for larger good?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: and not spam here hah
[11:16 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Actually PM Muhyiddin declaration of emergency measures is a very smart move.
Political moves are forbidden, parliament are suspended, oppositions cannot move motion to topple the government, election is postponed.
Yes if politicians can work together for the larger good - country will not have so much headache.
Look at trump, republicans and democrats - alot of infighting.
Look at Malaysia politics - all self interest.
That's why I worry about Singapore with more fractious groups coming out.
Is Singaporen voters wise enough not to follow the footsteps of Malaysia, US and so many other countries?
I don't know.
Probably not in our generation times, but I worry for our children and grandchildren.
REACH
[11:17 am, 26/10/2020] +: Singapore to import electricity from Malaysia under two-year trial
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-import-electricity-malaysia-two-year-trial-energy-13373336
Caleb
[11:17 am, 26/10/2020] +: Wow. If they sudenly cut off how
[11:17 am, 26/10/2020] +: Am concern on national securty
[11:18 am, 26/10/2020] +: SAF will be very busy
[11:18 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My handphone run out of space to install telegram.
It is ok, I have registered volume of posting in REACH apps here.
Govtech have noted my comments - hence the government is now issuing tracetogether token - which is safer.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:18 am, 26/10/2020] +: Hahaha so true but we'll have our backup plans lah we all know Malaysia not that friendLEE one
Caleb
[11:21 am, 26/10/2020] +: u can submit your concen here too, for them to reply u directly https://support.tracetogether.gov.sg/hc/en-sg/requests/new
[11:21 am, 26/10/2020] +: govtech are very responsive to feedback so far my experience with them
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:22 am, 26/10/2020] +: While I like the idea of having a fallback such as a physical token, having too many people who don't actually need it and then they start misplacing it will be troublesome
I'd rather that we only have the same few groups to have it who don't readily have access to the app due to whatever reasons, makes the admin load lighter than if say everyone was to have it when they don't actually need to have it.
[11:22 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
No problem I have good contact in Govtech.
They have responded.
Caleb
[11:23 am, 26/10/2020] +: and their response is? use the token?
[11:23 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEJu3yT-e1raHvZob1EPPcGsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMOySxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
China digital yuan (DCEP - digital currency electronic payment) - leave HK behind.
Singapore as yuan currency exchange got to take note of the development - and see how Singapore can integrate with China digital yuan to maintain our financial hub as yuan currency exchange - and not be left behind.
[11:23 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://blockchain.news/news/alibaba-founder-china-richest-man-jack-ma-digital-currency-redefine-money
[11:24 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I believe Singapore earn alot as financial hub - offering currency exchange and earn from:-
1. Commission
2. Currency exchange (currency fluctuations)
Eg. 1% earning of $100 billion - our banks earn $1 billion.
Thus we must be nimble and strategic to keep our currency exchange hub.
Ken
[11:25 am, 26/10/2020] +: Lol the game of throne really is killing Malaysia
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:26 am, 26/10/2020] +: OMG What a name
Honestly ah in this day and age a monarchy doesn't work, who cares about a King actually?
Ken
[11:26 am, 26/10/2020] +: But the king help them make it official 🤣
[11:27 am, 26/10/2020] +: Need a neutral party
[11:27 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
They suggest 2 options:-
1. Use tracetogether apps
2. Use tracetogether token.
If we aren't comfortable with 1 choose 2.
Ken
[11:27 am, 26/10/2020] +: If not they would have kick them out long ago... is to keep the game balance
[11:28 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
That's why, my fear is - will Singapore politics end up like Malaysia or US?
[11:28 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
One day..….?
Ben
[11:29 am, 26/10/2020] +: People are not clear why location needs to be tracked through scanning the code. Proximity based tracking is fine as it doesn't record location.
Ken
[11:29 am, 26/10/2020] +: Possible.. people want more say in things to be more fair
REACH
[11:29 am, 26/10/2020] +: Entrepreneurs try to find opportunity amid the COVID-19 uncertainty
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/covid-19-uncertainty-entrepreneurship-singapore-start-ups-13339650
Alvin
[11:30 am, 26/10/2020] +: It’s good but only if there are clear steps and options made available to the general public.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:30 am, 26/10/2020] +: It is still pretty inefficient even with both SE and TT. If let's say some big area kena, how we know which part exactly? End up whole big area must tio quarantine
[11:30 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Because virus can be left behind in a location eg. Lift, toilet, food court etc and need to be disinfected.
Ben
[11:31 am, 26/10/2020] +: I assume toilet are cleaned everyday... and there is no SE on most toilets
Alvin
[11:31 am, 26/10/2020] +: The current issue is tokens are high sought after, so the roll outs must continue until everyone has them before implementing the TT in shopping malls etc
[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
But end up with too many fracture parties and factions like Malaysia or partisan politics like US - and the whole country and people suffer.
Singapore is too small and have no strategic space and depth for such politics.
We will suffer tremendously if one day we end up like Malaysia or US.
Ben
[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: By the time a person tests positive, and the TT is reviewed and all the locations recorded several days will be gone. Is the plan to contact those locations and close them all for several days for cleaning to talk place?
Alvin
[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: There will also be the possibility that ppl might lost their tokens in public places.
[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: So the tracing might not be accurate
Ben
[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: If so, OK, its just not clear what the purpose is since we are all using TT anyway.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: Exactly the point I mentioned
Then lagi effort just to do the replacement, etc
Ben
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: I guess the system is flawed but better than nothing.
Ken
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: 🤷🏻♂️ we will not know.. let the people decide you can decide also just vote.
Alvin
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: The problem is ppl might use their handphone TT app after losing their token
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: I'm surprised ST isn't being updated as frequently as TT, is gahmen ruling in favour of TT then?
Alvin
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: End up token is tracing and tt app also tracing
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: Going to have headache
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: So I insist on my point, no token if you already have the app
Caleb
[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: updated? as in?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: If not become like some lost sonar beacon down there beeping forever
Alvin
[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: We become quantum particle exist in two places at the same time
[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: Lol
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: When unobserved hah the beauty of unknown science
Caleb
[11:36 am, 26/10/2020] +: when u lost the token, call them then will take take note lor
[11:36 am, 26/10/2020] +: then when u replace, is all backend records during contact tracing ma
Rama
[11:36 am, 26/10/2020] +: Unlikely we will go the route of our northern neighbours or america.
[11:38 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I am not so sure, as can see how voters swing in recent election.
I am not feeling comfortable.
Rama
[11:40 am, 26/10/2020] +: The laws here gives stability to investors, citizens and foreigners.
[11:41 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hopefully Singaporean voters are wise enough to vote correctly and not end up like Malaysia or US.
Rama
[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: Agree
Berny
[11:41 am, 26/10/2020] +: let's not derail to politics... shall we?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:41 am, 26/10/2020] +: Ya lor later must grind the rail ._.
[11:42 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3106874/hong-kong-battling-potentially-deadly-superbug?utm_content=article&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR24K3w9Y26liBzlYtTedsUqre6larYRLwMCQc54I1mZGPH7sNHEx54UHK0#Echobox=1603456701
Berny
[11:42 am, 26/10/2020] +: then SMRT need to OT overnight till early morning to repair and replace the rail liao
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: Imagine a full day without train service 😱
Berny
[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: I'm fine with that, good excuse to show up late for work
Caleb
[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: just WFH
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:44 am, 26/10/2020] +: What if we do move into a 15-minute city idea where your workplace will be some co-working area and not a centralised office building?
Berny
[11:44 am, 26/10/2020] +: my job nature doesn't allow that, i'm a site staff not hq staff
[11:45 am, 26/10/2020] +: that won't happen to me, I take care of condo, which are scattered all over the island
Caleb
[11:45 am, 26/10/2020] +: I don't condo-ne!!
Rama
[11:49 am, 26/10/2020] +: 😅😂🤣
[11:51 am, 26/10/2020] +: The only monarchy i have respect for is the late king of Thailand.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:53 am, 26/10/2020] +: Speaking of Thailand, when we look around us, we're the only stable country right now
Indonesia has its protests against what omnibus bill, Thailand also some sort of political turmoil
Malaysia is no need say anything you and I also know one
REACH
[11:53 am, 26/10/2020] +: Dear contributors, please continue to provide your views and stick to today's topic, thanks! :)
Rama
[11:54 am, 26/10/2020] +: That was fast.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[11:54 am, 26/10/2020] +: I think enough has been said already
WilsonLeong
[11:54 am, 26/10/2020] +: Just go to near your place to collect it
Rama
[11:55 am, 26/10/2020] +: Check for the nearest collection point as the locations are added.
[11:56 am, 26/10/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/10/submit-nmp-nomination/
Jeffery
[11:57 am, 26/10/2020] +: Good scheme to force people to use
REACH
[12:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Smooth start to Singapore's first pre-event Covid-19 screening
The opening of Singapore International Energy Week (SIEW) 2020 on Monday (Oct 26) saw the first ever pre-event Covid-19 swabbing taking place.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/smooth-start-to-singapores-first-pre-event-covid-19-screening
Dan
[1:12 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I have collected my device on Sat, I have been to several public places on Sun. Not one allows the use of the tag for safe entry. All required me to scan QR code. I think public places like the malls need to expedite the use of the tags, before public finds it redundant and cumbersome to bring it out.
Caleb
[1:14 pm, 26/10/2020] +: https://support.safeentry.gov.sg/hc/en-us/articles/900002740723
Rama
[1:15 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes
Berny
[1:22 pm, 26/10/2020] +: End of the day, we cannot totally eliminate the use of safe entry, certain area just doesnt have the budget for a new laptop and/or scanner
[1:23 pm, 26/10/2020] +: eg. condo and maybe industrial estates or some smaller shops
[1:24 pm, 26/10/2020] +: having said that, it is still good to make people bring along their token/app when they go out because the name says it all, "trace together"
Rama
[1:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I am all for it.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[1:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I think the coverage is there already, problem is the acceptance on the other side as Dan mentioned
Alvin
[1:39 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Can’t bro cos not everyone collected. Unless they allow token scanning, QR code and NRIC scanning.
[1:39 pm, 26/10/2020] +: That’s a lot of methods to scan liao
[2:09 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
'We're not going to control the pandemic', says White House chief of staff as US COVID-19 cases spike
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/united-states-covid-19-pandemic-control-mark-meadows-13373810 Statement of the year - from Trump Administration.
CQ
[2:11 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yah. There's no 2nd wave if you're not even past the first wave.
[2:12 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Total failure.
Just give up and surrender.
----
[2:15 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
That's why good government very important.
CQ
[2:15 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Failure is for those who have tried. If you don't try, you can't be said to have failed.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[2:16 pm, 26/10/2020] +: LMAO
[2:17 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well Trump never tried.
[2:17 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
It's always others fault.
Never his fault.
CQ
[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yah, and that's why he's never failed.
Rama
[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Utter flabbergasted!
[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahahaha.
Well 9 more days, we shall see.
Rama
[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] +: His trademark for his presidency!
[2:19 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahahaha.
Luckily we don't have such government.
Rama
[2:20 pm, 26/10/2020] +: We never will!
[2:21 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hope so....,
Rama
[2:28 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I see Lim Tean/Kenneth Jeyaretnam as somewhat similar to dotard!
Berny
[2:30 pm, 26/10/2020] +: This sentence is very dangerous
Blue and White Flag Guy
[2:31 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Dangerous but true
Alvin
[2:31 pm, 26/10/2020] +: 🤭
Berny
[2:31 pm, 26/10/2020] +: subjective la, I think the best way is not to put in any names
Blue and White Flag Guy
[2:32 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Sorry ah I can't agree with you, who the hell forms a party and then during broadcast only he speaks?
Berny
[2:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I don't know, I never watch the broadcast 🤭
Rama
[2:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes
Blue and White Flag Guy
[2:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Now you know lor
RP different case lah if Kenneth tio SHN I won't say much but pfffft PV is not PV, is Lim Tean Party 🥳 😂
[2:35 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Malaysia's PM faces calls to quit after failed bid for emergency rule
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-pm-muhyiddin-faces-calls-quit-emergency-rule-covid-19-13374324
[2:37 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Unstable government - goodness how to tackle covid and the economy.
Feel very sad for Malaysia.
Rama
[2:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes
Alvin
[2:45 pm, 26/10/2020] +: 😴
REACH
[4:13 pm, 26/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 26 Oct]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 1 new case of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.
Based on investigations so far, the case resides in a dormitory and there are no cases in the community.
There are 2 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 3 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh26octupdate
Caleb
[4:14 pm, 26/10/2020] +: on TT-only SE, can I clarify is it all public venues by end of year or selected public venues?
[4:14 pm, 26/10/2020] +: cause different news state different
Rama
[4:19 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Shock over comment that low-wage workers “only need to worry about food and death”
https://theindependent.sg/shock-over-comment-that-low-wage-workers-only-need-to-worry-about-food-and-death/
[4:19 pm, 26/10/2020] +: 😨😱
Berny
[4:21 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Are we ready for inflation? If yes, then go for minimum wage
[4:22 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And we must remember, with inflation, the $1,300 will become smaller and we are back to square 1
[4:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And can someone enlighten me, how can a 1 room rental flat incur $120 utility bill per month?
Ken
[4:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Lol
[4:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: You saw that too
Berny
[4:26 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Thats the average consumption of a typical 3-4 room flat with aircon leh
Ken
[4:26 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Rental should be around $20 to $30 max
Berny
[4:26 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And the subsidy should be quite good
Alvin
[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Where?
Berny
[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Good as in frequent
Anne
[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Then we’ll see the CPF MSS moving target again.
Berny
[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: In the article, middle part where theres a breakdown
Ken
[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: As in $120 a bit too high
Alvin
[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Electricity and conservancy charges maybe possible
[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Include waste disposal and water
Berny
[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Also, that article did not state the financial assistance provided, eg. Sso, msf or cdwf or comcare
Caleb
[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: public transport need $100
[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: thought should have subsidy PT
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:30 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Idk about the subsidy but $50 voucher is not enough for me that's for sure
Caleb
[4:30 pm, 26/10/2020] +: should be on workfare income ma
Anne
[4:32 pm, 26/10/2020] +: $100 per month for medical. Hmm...
Ken
[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Current rate
[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: What kind of subsidies they get roughly
Ken
[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: To qualify
Berny
[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Last para got my attention
Ken
[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Don’t add up $100 I think
Berny
[4:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: If they can potluck, why not make it a norm?
Ken
[4:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: The trap comes when people are at the borderline won’t want to stop getting help and if they earn more they get less help
Berny
[4:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Instead of waiting till no money
[4:35 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And her transport cost is high
[4:36 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Every month i spend slightly below $100 from jurong to bukit timah
Ken
[4:36 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Transport reasonable if they work far
[4:37 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Mine transport to work is $3 plus daily..
Berny
[4:37 pm, 26/10/2020] +: With the low income (sorry, I forgot the name of the scheme) concession card?
Ken
[4:37 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Assume only goes to work and don’t travel anywhere else
Berny
[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: They get cheaper ride though
Ken
[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: The one I posted lor
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Workfare?
Berny
[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Ahh yes
Rama
[4:42 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Senior citizens concession card. Sgd0.42 Monday to Friday before 0745.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:42 pm, 26/10/2020] +: If can avoid MRT rides, you will be able to save more
Alvin
[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Before 7.30am
Rama
[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Sgd 0.92 otherwise irregardless of distance.
Alvin
[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: But likely it’s monthly concession
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: This one also increased in price, last time still affordable for myself, now $128 out of the question
Alvin
[4:44 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Last time was $120 right?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:45 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I believe so
[4:48 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Though last time maybe because my card is NSF concession, I only had to pay $85
Ken
[4:49 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Inflation 😅
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:51 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Anyways it has to do with your trip patterns a lot
So when you travel less, be it $85, $120 or $128, you won't actually need it
[5:10 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Suggest the following, rather than tamper with minimum wage:-
1. Govt co-subsidies food voucher, get big organisation to participate and get food vendors to sell at cost with slight profit for the 32,000 low income workers.
2. Ramp up the implementation of PWM with pace.
3. Until these groups of low income people have upgraded through PWM - continue to maintain them with this scheme.
4. Don't bulldoze policy that is wrong for the sake of speed.
Use mitigation measures to cushion the affected people, but ramp up speed with PWM.
[5:13 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Doing things wrong to correct a wrong won't make things right.
Do the right things, but if not able to get it up fast, use mitigation measures to cushion the immediate impact - while speeding up what is the right things to do.
[5:14 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Use objective, transparent, evidence based for policy decision making.
Don't rush with wrong policy just for the sake of speed.
[5:31 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Rushing wrong policy with speed - become a train wreck.
Rama
[5:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Damage control will be costly
anfan
[5:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Will necessary households exempt GST help?
Berny
[5:51 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Very hard to implement, how can a grocery store (eg. Mama shop) "remove gst" from their pricing? Another issue will be the verification part
anfan
[5:52 pm, 26/10/2020] +: That is true
Rama
[5:52 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Not likely
Jimmy Chew
[6:00 pm, 26/10/2020] +: like the PMD
Rama
[6:02 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes
Caleb
[6:09 pm, 26/10/2020] +: There is GST Voucher given
[6:25 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
📢 Topic 📢
What do you think of the Trace Together-only Safe Entry scheme, which will be mandatory at all public venues?
My close friend comments:-
It is a necessary move. if not, how do we get the population to carry safe entry token or enable safe entry app? Unlike wearing masks, it is not easy to spot any persons not using safe entry. And if we don't have a critical mass, when there s an outbreak, we will be slow in detection
Rama
[6:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes
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