REACH 152 - Help for disabled and caregivers (SK)
15 Oct 2020 (12pm - 7pm)
REACH
[12:00 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,
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Megan 😊
REACH
[12:02 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢
How can we further provide support for people with disabilities (PWD) and their caregivers, to build a more caring and inclusive society?
Speaking in Parliament on Wednesday (Oct 14), Ms Phua said Singapore has made major strides over the years in addressing the needs of people with disabilities (PWD). However, there is still not enough community awareness and support for persons with disabilities, and they still face social stigma.
Minister of State for Social and Family Development Sun Xueling said more is being done, such as better support to transition from school to adult life and guidelines for insurers to treat PWDs equally unless justified.
👉🏻https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-more-support-needed-for-disabled-in-areas-like-healthcare-and-jobs
+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.
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Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:04 pm, 15/10/2020] +: We will have to break down (no, no pun intended on this, I sumpah to you all) the word "disability" and categorise them according to physical, mental and others
Perhaps we can do this right now, make it something like a brainstorming session in a workshop or something, make it more engaging :3
Stella
[12:24 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Err. The first time that come to my mind is their mental wellness. My relative's neighbour is a young lady on wheelchairs. She is often talking very loudly and laughing very loudly. The rest of her family are soft spoken and gentle people. I hope there are more activities for wheelchair people. Can include water sports whereby they can move around unassisted and freely.
Rama
[12:26 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Able bodied differently but not disabled! Workplace must be conducive to their physical condition and adapt to make them feel equal.
REACH
[12:34 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/covid-19-libraries-to-resume-more-services-from-tuesday-oct-20
Ken
[12:38 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 🤣🤣🤣🤣
[12:38 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Finally some house rules..
Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:39 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I curious who the one force REACH type out Point 4 but confirm not G2 cuz here only got Point 2 people 😂
Ken
[12:40 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I have some close friend that are physically challenged I can help with the discussion and even ask him to join to give feedback I am pretty sure he has lots to complaint 🤣
Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:40 pm, 15/10/2020] +: If he join hor the chances of him coming here quite slim cuz I think got until G7
Ken
[12:42 pm, 15/10/2020] +: http://www.asiaone.com/health/cerebral-palsy-didnt-hold-him-back?amp
He actually has lots of feedback on straits times and is quite a paralympian.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:45 pm, 15/10/2020] +: As in not necessarily G2 but G1 (quiet), G3 (noisy), G4, G5 (chaotic), G6 or if it exists, G7
Ken
[12:47 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Lol how come you know all?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:48 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Whatever happens in one group can affect the rest with a wide REACH of group shutdowns like last time got one Carol, anyhow whack everyone, in the end she kena shifted to other G, dk where only
Ken
[12:49 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Lol... quite busy with my baby just born
So now more quiet need more rest time
[12:50 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 😅 see the discussion still quite active
[12:52 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Growing up with PWD, is not easy.
https://www.theexpatfairs.com/no-storm-too-rough-for-jovin-tan-a-hero-in-the-eyes-of-many/
Can have a read on his life. Being his friend also not always easy as we have to keep in mind location where he can access, who want to sent him home.
Pretty much after sometime we call him out much lesser. It is normal but how to make it inclusive generally mindset has to change.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:53 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Honestly SG isn't that inaccessible as compared to many places liao so again we cannot take things for granted
Also, a point about inclusivity is to not make it so that it becomes a form of exclusivity
Ken
[12:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.netflix.com/jp-en/title/81156863
Or have a rough understand on their struggle can watch this show.
[12:56 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Wheelchair accessible station only recent years but at least we are trying to improve. But still limited a
Blue and White Flag Guy
[12:56 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Another point is we should all keep a lookout for people with physical disabilities and be prepared to help them when the situation calls for it
I remember an uncle on wheelchair trying to go up a slope by grasping on the handrail, so dangerous! I then went to help push him up
Stella
[1:04 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I had conducted finger knitting and arm knitting classes at IC2 Jurong whereby some participants had zero vision. Their learning ability for handmade is no less than the participants at NTU workshop, despite low/zero vision. I hope they will have equal opportunities in our United SG plans so that no one is left behind.
[1:29 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
(1) Caregivers are often a very stressful group for the disabled.
Support group for the caregivers will be helpful for caregivers.
(2) Disabled should be categorised into mental and physical.
Support groups for mental disabled and physical disabled will be helpful for these 2 groups of disabled.
(3) Support group can be in 2 forms :-
a. Remote support eg. Whatsapp chatgroup support group - for caregivers and separately for the mental/physical disabled - to allow them to discuss their experience, gain emotional support or discuss solutions to their problems they encountered.
b. (i) Monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly discussion group or counselling group - for caregivers or for the mentally/physical disabled.
(ii) Facilities to house and treat mental/physical disabled - when the need arise to help disabled recover if they feel unwell or relapse. Ensure the mental/physical disabled received regular treatment and take medication to control their illness.
By doing so, they are well to live normally and live well - which will be good for them, their caregivers, family members and the society at large.
(4) Hopefuly, the above approach can help disabled and caregivers to live a better and fufilling lives --- and less stressful lives or worst in some reported extreme cases - lead to unfortunate events to the disabled or the caregivers.
Rama
[1:30 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes
[1:30 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Worth exploring further with all stakeholders
Alvin
[1:34 pm, 15/10/2020] +: This is one of the groups that have fallen between the cracks.
Some of them (partial disabled) are actually well functioning and may love to work. Depending on their desire, we could assist them in matching with suitable work.
Others may be totally disabled and we need to focus more on their wellbeing, both physical and mental.
My 2.14 cents
[1:34 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Most important, caregivers should not be left alone to deal with the stressful situation.
Disabled must also not to be left alone to fend for themselves.
Treatment must always be regularly administered to the disabled to ensure they are well and have access to professional medical help.
Only then both the disabled and caregivers can be well and have less stressful situation to deal with.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[1:34 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Those who can work should always be allowed to! Gives them the motivation too!
Stella
[1:35 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Oh yes! Allowed and given opportunity to.
REACH
[1:40 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-employers-given-warnings-for-illegally-deploying-maids-could-be-fined
Ben
[1:46 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Interestingly the word disability in itself is disabling. A preferred term might be imparied. Someone being described as disabled means they are incapable, and have no ability.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[1:47 pm, 15/10/2020] +: impaired would still be a term for "disabled" so there is no way we can have inclusivity if we see them as such
Anne
[1:48 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Is handicapped a better word?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[1:49 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Would still be a disability thing because people already know what it means, and heavily associates it with wheelchairs
Rama
[1:50 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Agree
Anne
[1:52 pm, 15/10/2020] +: In horse racing, a handicap race is where they try to add weights to the faster horses. The aim is for all the horses to reach the finishing line at the same time. Of courses in reality it doesn’t “work”. So maybe handicap may be a better term rather than disabled.
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Rama
[2:19 pm, 15/10/2020] +: launch-air-bubble-which-may-allow-leisure-travel-without-need?utm_source=Telegram&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=STTG
[2:25 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Straits Times
Most S'pore public servants will have secure Internet access on work laptops from Nov 2
Lester Wong
PUBLISHED 15 October 2020
The majority of the 146,000 public servants here will be able to access the Internet securely without the need for a separate device come Nov 2, thanks to a new remote browsing technology solution.
Secure Internet Surfing (SIS) will allow public servants to use their work laptops when surfing the Internet for information. They will also be able to log in to social media sites to make text-based posts, as well as open links directly from e-mails and documents, the Smart Nation and Digital Government Group (SNDGG) said on Thursday (Oct 15).
SNDGG said the roll-out of SIS, which was made possible by recent advances in remote browsing technology, will improve productivity across the public service.
Remote browsing technology works by creating an isolated container which handles all Internet content accessed by the user and prevents direct interaction between government systems and malware or viruses lurking on the Internet.
The container can also be configured to filter out certain types of content deemed unsafe to further reduce the risks of malware infection and data theft.
Public servants on SIS will also be able to upload files to the Internet, but only for approved websites.
--
Posted on :- 12 Nov 2018
Ricky Lim
Virtual browser can be a permanent solution to resolve the Internet temporary Internet Surfing Separation (ISS).
A separate physical internet device need not be procured to do the virtual browser.
The same intranent end device can launch virtual browser to browse Internet without needing to use separate internet device to surf Internet.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
PROTECTION OF STAFF INTERNET SURFING
Posted on :- 06 Aug 2018 03:17PM (Updated: 06 Aug 2018 03:27PM)
Ricky Lim
Virtual browser solution will be like the VMWare VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) ThinApp or Citrix thin client - whereby it inherit the following security features :-
(1) It operates with a virtual server.
(2) The virtual server will maintain a golden virtual desktop clone.
(3) When the desktop client login to the virtual server, the virtual server will download a virtual desktop clone to the client.
(4) the virtual desktop client - come with its operating system and web browser - that is logically segregated from the client physical desktop.
(5) It means that users can make use of the virtual client to browse the internet - but any files cannot be saved into the desktop physical client and vice versa.
Thus any attack from the internet via the virtual client will be limited to the virtual client and cannot take over the physical client that connect to the intranet.
(6) When user logout from the virtual server, its virtual client will disappear.
This is a safe approach to browse internet without physical separation from the internet.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
This is the same concept of :-
色即是空，空即是色。
"Physical is Virtual, Virtual is Physical".
Like · Reply · 1m\
Ricky Lim
It should be noted that :-
(1) The Virtual Server that dish out virtual clients to the desktop users - should be hosted in a Public DMZ - protected by the following slew of security measures :-
a. Firewall - where ACL is to filter inbound and outbound internet traffic restricted to Public DMZ only and not allow to enter the Intranet.
b. SSL Decryptor - to decrypt web content to allow for deep packet inspection.
b. APT (Advanced Persistent Threat) - to perform Virtual Patching for zero-day attack, deep inspection on content, application and user, sandbox detonation for unknown threat, flag, display and alert known threat.
c. Full Web Reverse Proxy, and Forward Proxy.
d. WAF - Web Application Firewall to protect against SQL injection, Cross scripting.
e. IPS - Intrusion Prevention System to monitor, detect, alert, respond, protect against known threat and unknown threat.
Like · Reply · 1m
[2:26 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/tech/most-spore-public-servants-will-have-secure-internet-access-without-needing-separate-device
[2:31 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hmmm.
Take 2 years to implement......
[2:33 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: After singhealth APT (Advanced Persistent Threat) by State Hackers.
Desmond Koh
[2:34 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Don anyhow assume 😬
Rama
[2:35 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Til the next hacking!
[2:36 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well hackers hack through the internet.
[2:37 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
The full technical details of singhealth hacking have been reported in the newspaper.
=========
[2:42 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
A typical APT that compromise a client with poor security through internet, take control over a server with poorly protected server, and then access all the data in the server.
REACH
[2:46 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Singapore and Hong Kong have agreed in principle to set up an air travel bubble.
There will be no restrictions on travel purposes but travellers will have to test negative for COVID-19 before their trips. https://cna.asia/351HhLR
[2:47 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
20 Jul 2018 05:29PM (Updated: 20 Jul 2018 06:10PM)
Ricky Lim
CSA ascertained the cyberattackers first accessed the network after breaching a front-end workstation, and managed to get privileged access to the database over time while also showing sophistication in cleaning up their digital footprints when doing so.
--
This sounds like an Advanced Persistent Attack (APT) - by hijacking a legitimate workstation through remote access, steal the password (at least the administrator password of the database) and do a sweeping copies of the database for eg. via SQL.
SingHealth network infrastructure that run independently seems to be independent from the Ministry - and may lack the security rigour of the more protected IT infra.
Like · Reply · 1m · Edited
Ricky Lim
Cleaning up digital footprint - is a very sophisticated process - and will require specialise knowledge in all the equipment, system software, databse and security equipment.
Minimally, the hackers will need to clean up device logs, system logs, access logs etc of say the routers, firewalls, LAN switches, IPS, OS of servers, databases, apps etc --- along the way as it navigate its way through ---- and the hackers need to know intimately all the devices, system, security, software etc - to be able to clean up all the digital footprint.
To do so, the hackers must be able to steal the administrator or supervisor passwords of all the devices, software etc and know which files, logs etc to clean up.
This sounds like a State-level jobs - not any novice hackers or self-learned hackers can stage such a sophisticated attacks.
Hence such attacks is known as Advanced Persistent Attack or the APT.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Also wonder did Singhealth IT system put under the SOC (Security Operation Centre) SIEM CII monitoring - to pick up suspicious hacking attack going on --- where mass copies or manipulation of the database ---- will have been picked up as illegitimate access by the SIEM.
Alarms and alerts will be triggered the moment such illegitimate access are conducted and remedial actions can immediately be taken.
Also notice that "jump host" security via oob mgt - is not implemented - as front-desk workstation can be used to access database as database admin doing administrator function via front end.
In retrospect, if all the equipment, security devices, servers etc uses "jump host" security and oob mgt - the hackers may not be able to do such a front end attack - as device management is separated from front end access.
Also device management can only be access via "dedicated jump host" access only locally - and not accessible by remote management or remote access.
Singhealth should take note.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
Look like SingHealth has still not under the CII monitoring yet.
Like · Reply · 1m
'Adeeb Ashraf
Can tell it is not as "complex" as it seems if the attacker was already identified. High chance that whatever entry point was used had a weak application
Like · Reply · 40m
Ricky Lim
Not true that the ability to identify the attackers - means the attacker is not sophisticated or is not conducting a "complex" hacking operation.
(1) Digital footprint can be traced to the attackers (unless all the footprint) are removed - which look like the hackers though sophisticated are not able to fully removed - as they must have left some digital trace and thus subsequently detected.
(2) Doing reconnaissance to identify a weak workstation that able to remotely controlled and compromise or infected with botnets -- without being detected is not easy.
(3) Breaking the workstation password, breaking the database supervisor password to launch SQL mass copies of the database to steal information - are not easy.
(4) Able to penetrate many layers of IT security undetected and did not raise any alerts and alarms - are not easy.
All this require very high skill and sophistication of the hackers.
Like · Reply · 1m
Ricky Lim
The hallmark of State sponsored attack - that is the Advanced Persistent Attack are:-
(1) Advanced persistent presence
(2) Remote access and remote management
(3) Abiltiy to avoid detection of its illegal access and evade security measures
(4) Automated data mining to steal data - and pipe back to the hacker server
(5) Connect and disconnect quickly - and remove forensic digital footprint
- The Singhealth attack seems to have all the above features - the hallmark of State sponsor attack.
Like · Reply · 1m
Alvin
[2:48 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 🤭
Rama
[2:48 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Rouge states!?
[2:49 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Sensitive.
But we need to protect our IT infrastructure very well.
Alvin
[2:50 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I’m actually more worried about 5th Column
[2:50 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
What is 5th column?
ALvin
[2:51 pm, 15/10/2020] +: locals who are sympathizers to external nations
[2:51 pm, 15/10/2020] +: they will influence and convince majority to sway their thoughts to their objectives
[2:52 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
That one leave it to ISD to handle.
Technical personnel concentrate in securing the IT infrastructure well.
REACH
[2:52 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Thanks everyone for the sharing but sincerely appreciate if we can stick to the topic. 🙏🏻😁
Rama
[2:57 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes
[2:57 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Ywah
[2:57 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes
[2:57 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yup
Boon
[3:04 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Caring and inclusiveness are societal values. Therefore, for these values to be present, they need a whole of society effort - parental examples, leadership examples, from school and reinforced in family and society. But it’s one of those things that are so easy to say than do; especially with challenges like elitism, them-versus-us, “I am too busy”, “I am the victim”, “I need to survive first”, or “you cannot make it and it’s your own responsibility” mentality. So, these societal challenges need to be tackled/reduced, for a more caring and inclusive society - for all. Thanks.
Rama
[3:06 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes
[3:14 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/10/increase-fine-employers-deploy-workers/
[3:14 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Wth!?
REACH
[3:16 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-parents-of-singaporean-children-born-ahead-of-estimated-delivery-dates
Ken
[3:18 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Lol my EDD oct 6
[3:18 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 🤣 Born sep 22
[3:23 pm, 15/10/2020] +: The thing is why October 1st? 🤔
Many will complaint 😥
REACH
[3:28 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-about-70000-families-getting-means-tested-pre-school-subsidies-after
CQ
[3:40 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Oohh!! Congratulations!!
REACH
[3:40 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Singapore confirms 3 new Covid-19 cases, including 2 imported. There are no new cases in the community.
https://str.sg/J64S
Alvin
[3:49 pm, 15/10/2020] +: exactly
[3:49 pm, 15/10/2020] +: but dun wanna say liao cos will get angry only lol
[3:49 pm, 15/10/2020] +: every unfair/unjust policy passed sg ppl will remember it one
REACH
[3:54 pm, 15/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 15 Oct]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 1 new case of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.
Based on investigations so far, the case resides in a dormitory and there are no new cases in the community.
In addition, there are 2 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 3 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh15octupdate
CQ
[3:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I wouldn't say it's unfair or unjust, but if you decide to implement something, there always has to be a cut-off somehow. Otherwise it'll be never-ending. And where there's a cut-off, there will be some people who would just miss out and will be unhappy.
Alvin
[3:58 pm, 15/10/2020] +: yes
[3:58 pm, 15/10/2020] +: to those unaffected it'll be ok
[3:58 pm, 15/10/2020] +: but those who fall short of a bit they will feel unfair
[3:58 pm, 15/10/2020] +: imagine your baby 30th sep
CQ
[4:04 pm, 15/10/2020] +: i think what has to come out a bit more in terms of messaging is that this isn't just a grant to support families in raising kids during difficult times (otherwise everyone with kids below 21 should get it) or an additional "reward" for those who decided to have kids and popped during circuit breaker (that's the general baby bonus), but it's actually a reward for those who decided to have kids despite the uncertainty brought about by covid. so these would be those who decided to have kids during circuit breaker (cos nothing else better to do at home) or a bit earlier, which from the timeline, they seemed to have drawn the line in the sand as "conceived on or after 1 Jan 2020".
Blue and White Flag Guy
[4:05 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Hahahahaha interesting viewpoint actually
CQ
[4:05 pm, 15/10/2020] +: that's how i see it lah, and that's why the "reward" also extends into 30 Sep next year, so if you decide to "start working hard" this year, you can still catch the cutoff
Alvin
[4:07 pm, 15/10/2020] +: the question now becomes you have a kid cost of the money?
[4:07 pm, 15/10/2020] +: * the question now becomes you have the kid cos of the money?
Ken
[4:08 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Wonder if people will delivery early so that can catch the ending date
[4:09 pm, 15/10/2020] +: $3k for some is one to two months pay 😅
Alvin
[4:09 pm, 15/10/2020] +: if no, then then why need to give this cash payout?
if yes, then isn't the gov encouraging the wrong thing
CQ
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: well, that's always the $10k question right? are people having kids because of the baby bonus? Does it actually add to the "pros" column when a couple decides whether to make one?
Alvin
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: money isn't the solution
Rama
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Work life balance!?
Ken
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: With it, help to reduce the worry of having kids..
But then again if you go C class ward
Rama
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Cost of living!?
Ken
[4:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Is almost free the delivery
[4:11 pm, 15/10/2020] +: So the cash enough for baby first 6 months
CQ
[4:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: exactly, money is never the solution. but when people are surveyed about "why are you not having kids ah?" and "what's the hardest part about raising a kid", one answer that comes up is inevitably "oh, cost of raising children". So when money keeps coming up as one of the problems, of course money is one of the proposed solutions.
REACH
[4:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/future-of-hdb-living-will-be-smart-and-sustainable-and-keep-pace-with-ageing
Alvin
[4:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: not really
[4:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: the cost of raising a kid is astronomical
Ken
[4:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Depends on how you want to raise the kid
Alvin
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: i remembered reading it in a parents website before
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: around 500k from birth till college
Ken
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Tuition is optional
Alvin
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: and this was a couple of years back
Ken
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: College the kid find ways to pay themselves
[4:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I pay my own college
Alvin
[4:14 pm, 15/10/2020] +: so you're the judge and jury now?
[4:14 pm, 15/10/2020] +: dictating ppl to follow your path?
CQ
[4:14 pm, 15/10/2020] +: but the whole underlying reason why people choose to have kids are already wrong. the older generation believe that you have kids so that you have someone to take care of you when you're old, but that's a totally wrong reason. a child is not your insurance policy. you should have a child because you want to, not because you're afraid to die alone!
Ken
[4:16 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 👍 yah kids is not to take care of you... if they will is a bonus.
But also depends on how you bring up the kid to be.
[4:17 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Money is not so much.. if more of time to teach and company the kid which is priceless
CQ
[4:19 pm, 15/10/2020] +: exactly! but the starting premise for a lot of couples are already wrong. and that's why they see the kid as a burden. and totally doesn't help if there are underlying tensions in the relationship to begin with. a child is NOT a glue in the family. quite contrary to that, a child is an amplifier. if the relationship and family dynamics is positive, the child will amplify that positivity. but if there is tension and unhappiness, a child is not going to fix that and in fact amplifies the unhappiness. so any counsellor, social worker, elder, or "well-meaning friend" who says that having a child will save the marriage is spreading fake news ok? it DOES NOT!!!!
Ken
[4:20 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Having kid is stressful for sure..
[4:20 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Lots of micro tension
CQ
[4:21 pm, 15/10/2020] +: yah... like whether to run to the kid on the very first whine or not can also become a quarrel
Ken
[4:21 pm, 15/10/2020] +: How to care for the kids, who spend more time caring for them, who spend more money , etc etc...
For me money not so much of a issue... which I think really helps a lot as one less issue to worry about
[4:21 pm, 15/10/2020] +: But not enough sleep is real 😱
CQ
[4:21 pm, 15/10/2020] +: oh yes!!! 🐼
Ken
[4:22 pm, 15/10/2020] +: But having them sleep on you the feeling cannot be described
Alvin
[4:23 pm, 15/10/2020] +: to me, having a child is an inspiration of the future for singapore and the world and human race in general, i would want them to be all they could want to be and more
CQ
[4:23 pm, 15/10/2020] +: awwwwwwwwwwww
Alvin
[4:23 pm, 15/10/2020] +: there will be lots of sacrifices but it's worthwhile in the end
Rama
[4:28 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes
[4:29 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Agree
CQ
[4:29 pm, 15/10/2020] +: i was chatting with a friend the other day and he was asking "why is there a need to keep increasing population and increasing GDP? Resources are short because of overpopulation, you'll never have enough what." sounds like he subscribes to the Thanos school of thought...
Alvin
[4:31 pm, 15/10/2020] +: with my baby now, i'm looking at the future and planning alot more nowadays
[4:32 pm, 15/10/2020] +: reading and understanding the policies and the world around us and implications
[4:32 pm, 15/10/2020] +: cos you will start to have a vision of what type of world they will grow up in
[4:32 pm, 15/10/2020] +: and will want to build that type of world for them
[4:45 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Because human don't want extinction.
Human want comfort lives.
[4:46 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Just like all living things species and plants are focus on life continuation.
The 12 dependent origin of life.
CQ
[4:47 pm, 15/10/2020] +: by his argument (not mine): "you can have a comfortable life and everything you want if human population reduce to like 6000. plenty of resources to go around". 😒😒😒 yah, that's why i say he Thanos school of thought
Ken
[4:48 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 🤣
[4:48 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
6000 extinct faster.
6 billion extinct slower.
12 dependent origin of life - senses, consciousness, feeling, desires etc all play a part in human, Living things life continuation.
[4:50 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
无极生太极。
太极生两仪。
两仪生四象。
四象生八卦。
八卦生六十四卦。
CQ
[4:50 pm, 15/10/2020] +: imagine... only 6000 in the world and still can't find a mate..... #foreveralone
[4:51 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahahaha.
A mate multiply ....
m@dm@n
[4:51 pm, 15/10/2020] +: lol, if left only 6000, he better know how to live without electricity and internet, and know farming, hunting and survival skills
CQ
[4:52 pm, 15/10/2020] +: really ah. not my view. just sharing the boliao late night conversations with the friend. obviously i need whisky, ah boh i smack him already.
[4:53 pm, 15/10/2020] +: he say ah. "no need! you have all the food and resources left behind by everyone else who kena snapped. you have plenty to live on, just need to know how to scavenge. electricity can just go and find generator and fill with petrol/diesel, which you can scavenge from the tanks in the cars left behind. and who needs internet?"
[4:54 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is the math of binary...
CQ
[4:54 pm, 15/10/2020] +: -takes a swig of whisky-
Alvin
[4:54 pm, 15/10/2020] +: your friend obviously haven't live in isolation for a period of time
[4:54 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 6k siao
CQ
[4:54 pm, 15/10/2020] +: obvs not!!
Alvin
[4:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: i think current pop size of the world is ok
[4:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: with covid19
[4:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: it's wiping out quite some number liao
[4:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: i think nature will balance everything out
[4:55 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Talking about 6000 for world population....
Stay tuned to some happenings....
CQ
[4:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: with the crowds after the MRT lines broke down last night, i'd say we can afford to reduce a bit lah....
m@dm@n
[4:56 pm, 15/10/2020] +: lol, its not even full force back to work
CQ
[4:56 pm, 15/10/2020] +: i know right???!!! it's crazy!!
[4:56 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.yahoo.com/news/us-sent-60-spy-planes-052643390.html All these are signs of confrontation preparation. Guam refuelling tankers drill reflect unusual activity.
[4:56 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
China satellites can track US stealth fighter F22 through high resolution optical observations and AI tracking of its flight that can integrate with radar.
Radar can't detect the stealth fighter.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/china-sending-more-gaofen-satellites-131733255.html
[4:56 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Xi Jinping tells marines to focus on ‘preparing to go to war’ in military base visit during southern China tour
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiELARwgBjNF1NDPnR3Z13hwMqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMKqaxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
[4:56 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Anyway, I still worried about our Taiwan base and Guam.
Unpleasant things are brewing, and one day it may break out.
All the above are sign of confrontation preparation...
Blue and White Flag Guy
[5:00 pm, 15/10/2020] +: This world can do a lot with a lot less people 🤭
CQ
[5:01 pm, 15/10/2020] +: So... 6000?? 🤭
Boon
[5:11 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 👍
Rama
[5:16 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://goodyfeed.com/mrt-breakdown-circuit-breaker/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=active
[5:17 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Orchard Towers fatal brawl: One of the accused walks free, given conditional warning instead https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/orchard-towers-fatal-brawl-conditional-warning-man-accused-consorting-alleged-knife?cid=telegram_tg-single_social-free_26012019_today#.X4gTj8iYPc0.whatsapp
Valli
[5:29 pm, 15/10/2020] +: That is why Trump has done the right thing in stopping Huawei technology in US. And even Tik Tok.
[5:36 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Our G should be alert on China investments relocating into Spore.
If things get out of control ...
[5:37 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Even though it creates employment opportunities
[5:38 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I think we don't want to take sides who is right and who is wrong.
We just want to stay out before they fight - so that our people and military assets will not suffer collateral damage.
Anyway I am not a fan of trump.
The current tension is instigated by him to boost his re-election.
[5:40 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Our economic relationship and investment with China is very strong at all level.
From here onwards, this region economy are tie very closely to China's growth.
US are getting more remote.
[5:44 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Anyway China high tech sector is not taking US tech sanctions lying down.
It has spur China to develop a dual technology track, dual currency track and dual economic track to counter US all pervasive challenges.
China will emerge even stronger.
[5:45 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://cntechpost.com/2020/10/12/smic-achieves-breakthrough-in-7nm-process/
China SMIC achieve breakthrough in chip development.
[5:46 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
China breakthrough in chip development - and wrangle out itself from US strong tech in semiconductor.
REACH
[5:52 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-another-25-million-in-covid-relief-measures-for-singapores-sports
[6:03 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Trump has catalyse China to be even stronger at a hasten speed - and will be able to match US at every front.
Rama
[6:04 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Gamble will not pay off!
[6:06 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
US election: China’s trade gap with United States was 43 per cent bigger in September than when Donald Trump took office
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3105354/us-election-chinas-trade-gap-united-states-was-43-cent-bigger
Rama
[6:07 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/10/bilahari-kausikan-us-election-2020/
[6:10 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
China will win the trade war and wean off American technology in 7 years, strategist says
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/china-will-win-trade-war-reduce-reliance-on-us-tech-strategist.html US companies will lose a big market - unable to sell to China - and China companies will compete head-on with American companies at all front.
[6:19 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
In short, PM Lee's most feared "bifurcation" - in technology, economic and finance - has occured.
Break up into 2 main branches - US and China has occurred.
And the chances of escalation into WW3 is increasingly likely.
Yes someone mention 6000 people in the whole world can happen.
[6:20 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Trump make all this possible in a short 4 years.
Rama
[6:24 pm, 15/10/2020] +: He seems to be able to bluff his way through with the electorate these past four years.
[6:25 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Previously Mr LKY has coaxed Mr Deng Xiaoping to integrate with the world market economy and join WTO is to prevent bifurcation and head-to-head competition and confrontation between US and China through mutual benefits and win-win outcome.
The world have peace for half a century.
Trump unravel this in a short 4 years of his presidency.
[6:26 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Let us see the humanity fate in 2 to 3 weeks time - whether humanity is destined to peace for another 50 years.
Rama
[6:30 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes
Jimmy Chew
[6:30 pm, 15/10/2020] +: No sure if the Simpsons did a story on it. One of their episode indicated Trump to be president. It happened 😍
CQ
[6:32 pm, 15/10/2020] +: yah! Simpsons predicted a lot of things. maybe the writers are time travellers.....
[6:32 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Unfortunately, the world did not understand Mr LKY and PM Lee's wisdom.
Jimmy Chew
[6:33 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Until today we don't 😍
Rama
[6:36 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Great foresight
REACH
[6:38 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-koh-poh-koon-spars-with-workers-party-mps-on-minimum-wage-says
[6:39 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
$1,300 minimum wage?
[6:40 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well can make this a topic next time and let us debate whether minimum wage can jadi or not.
REACH
[6:41 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Dear Contributors, the chat will be extended to 9pm. Thank you :)
Rama
[6:44 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-koh-poh-koon-spars-with-workers-party-mps-on-minimum-wage-says
[6:49 pm, 15/10/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
[12:14 pm, 07/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
To solve problems and pursue fresh ideas - fresh ideas must be workable and withstand the veracity of the test.
It must not bring unintended consequences.
For example, will like to bring attention to 2 fresh ideas - minimum wages and retrenchment insurance that cannot withstand the veracity of test.
[12:15 pm, 07/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
-----
With reference to the above news article - Parlimentary debate on Minimum Wages and Retrenchment Insurance
Part 1 :- The benefit or consequences of implementing Minimum Wage
Discussion with my close friend :-
a. Minimum Wages
My close friend comments :
- Minimum wage model has no meaning when level too low. Any higher, employers don't want or cannot afford.
- The economic prof is western world educated. They have welfare system cannot just Copy and paste.
My comments :-
- Yes. Minimum wage don't conform to economic principles of demand and supply.
- Every industry sectors are different.
Eg. Lift technician sector minimum pay is different from security sector and different from cleaners job.
- Cannot enforce a universal minimum wage across all sectors.
- Progressive wage model is based on each industry sector manpower demand and supply and wage grow is commensurate and must grow in tandem with economic output and productivity indicators.
- PWM is coin by economists based on strong economic fundamental.
- Minimum wages is a blunt tool that do not take into account economic fundamental.
My close friend comments :-
- PWM also very difficult
- Can only consider for very low skilled sector because cannot let people starve. Other than that I cannot see how it is useful
- In today's context bubble tea is basic necessity to many people. How much should min wage be?
My comments :-
- PWM is a difficult model to implement but workable.
Eg. Security guard starting pay is $1500 - when he do 2 hour patrol rest 2 hour. He work one shift of 8 hours including rest.
- With PWM, he is trained to operate CCTV, video analytics, video storage and editing, backup and archive video files and monitor on screen for 3 hours rest 1 hour and work 1 shift of 8 hours.
His salary increase to $2,500 after he pass his course for example.
- Another eg. 3 cleaners supposed to sweep a mall and can complete in 1 hour per floor. He is paid $1200.
- But under PWM, he is trained how to operate a cleaning machine, and he can cover 3 persons job in 1 floor. He is paid $2800 for example.
My close friend comments :-
-: Low wage earners, can consider. Cannot broad stroke set for everyone
- Even job sizing was difficult. Remember?
My comments :-
- Yes PWM is only for low wage earners not PMETs.
- Because low wage earners have very narrow, low skill, define sets of job requirements - unlike PMETs that is more complex, required complex and complicated skillsets that come with Uni or Poly educations and training.
- Hence PWM only apply to low wage earners to help to uplift their skillsets confined to specific sets of skills.
- It cannot be apply to PMETs who have a larger job scope, more complex, more sophisticated skillsets required, that produce higher value economic outputs and profitability to the companies.
My close friend comments:-
- He copy from western countries but forgetting that unemployment can collect allowances. Here you peg minimum wrong, the person is priced out. So what happen? He become unemployed and go hungry
My comments:-
- Yes. That's why PWM must be implemented for each different sectors.
- And they are formulated based on the peculiarities of each industry sector.
- So you see whether minimum wage can work or not?
- That opposition economic prof theory of minimum wage is nonsensical - when map onto economic principles.
-----
[12:15 pm, 07/09/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
-----
Part 2 - The benefit or consequences of implementing Retrenchment Insurance
b. Retrenchment Insurance
My comments:-
- Retrenchments insurance is meant to provide temporary relief to people when they suddenly go retrenched.
- But it have many drawbacks if implemented - because it does not solve the problems of sustained earnings for the people.
- The drawbacks are :-
(i) Retrenchment insurance blunt people's motivation to work. If people received monthly retrenchment benefits, where is the motivation to work? No need to work also got money to take, then why work?
When this happen, Singaporeans no longer want to work - our workforce get depleted and business without workers will leave Singapore - and our Economy will collapse.
(ii) Also who pay for the retrenchment insurance premium?
- Some people say Employer pay. This means retrenchment insurance will add additional cost to business - and it means employers will reduce the salary of each workers or worst, no incentives to employ Singaporans as Singaporean workers are more expensive.
- Thus, business will either employ more foreign workers or leave Singapore.
- Then some people say, make Singaporean workers pay for the retrenchment insurance premium.
- What this mean is that - If pay by Singaporean workers, they will have less disposable income to spend for their daily living.
- Also currently, Employers and Singaporean Employees are already putting in money for CPF --- by forcing employers or employees to set aside money for retrenchment insurance premium --- it will make Singapore uncompetitive to the World labour market.
- Unless Singaporean workers set aside some money to buy their own insurance as savings ---- for rainy days - in the event some career crisis happens.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: PWM is definitely better than universal minimum wage model, just like how there's never a one-size-fits-all solution to anything in mobility
REACH
[6:58 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢
We want to continue hearing from you! What do you think of the Progressive Wage Model (PWM) as part of efforts to lift wages for lower-income workers?
Stating that the Government is not ideologically against having a minimum wage, Dr Koh said the PWM was effectively a minimum wage tied to a skills ladder, and takes a different approach to uplifting the incomes of low-wage workers.
He noted that under the PWM, the Government can work with each industry to address its specific concerns and challenges, so as to arrive at a consensus and basis that the different stakeholders can support.
Dr Koh also said the Government has committed to working with its tripartite partners to extend the PWM to all sectors.
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-koh-poh-koon-spars-with-workers-party-mps-on-minimum-wage-says
Alvin
[7:00 pm, 15/10/2020] +: PWM is definitely superior as it has granular control over different industries and roles.
[7:01 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Minimum wage is a broad stroke but doesn’t help if some roles are already above the amount
CQ
[7:08 pm, 15/10/2020] +: A PWM is better than a universal minimum wage, because if you apply minimum wage across the board, it applies to everyone and it shocks the system because the SMEs' operating costs suddenly go up. And as much as people say "yes, we should implement min wage", the million dollar question is always "who pay?". When costs go up, the costs are inevitably going to be passed down to the customers. And to those people who whine about the chicken rice going up by $0.50, guess what....?
A PWM is applied sector by sector after studying the feasibility and what's the appropriate level to set the wage at. so it's more tailored at a sector-appropriate level and not a generic rule which may or may not be suitable across all industries. A PWM is also advantageous because it provides a sense of progression/promotion for the individual, which gives a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction from a psychological/social perspective.
However, a PWM falls short because it takes a much longer time to be implemented compared to min wage, so while the PWM gets rolled out progressively, there are people struggling to survive below livable income. By the time it reaches one sector, the cost of living might already have caught up with the earlier PWM sectors, so we're always going to be playing catch-up and there will always be people left behind. And because PWM is rolled out by sectors/vocations, there may be some jobs which fall between the cracks if they don't fall neatly into either category.
Ben
[7:09 pm, 15/10/2020] +: agreed
[7:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes, Minimum wage becomes a floor that is set across many industries.
[7:10 pm, 15/10/2020] +: 👍
CQ
[7:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/seven-arrested-suspected-theft-budget-grocery-vouchers-police-13286530?cid=FBcna&fbclid=IwAR0p1ZrzbCluvfGmDCTqdMFZzsS0tyXo2EXwAY08RHzST0QYCWwft0m14wc
wah eh........ this is not cool man
Blue and White Flag Guy
[7:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Why they never go steal people's hearts 😂
REACH
[7:15 pm, 15/10/2020] +: awwwwwww
Blue and White Flag Guy
[7:15 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Eh OG Megan go sleep la today you not on duty 😆
Rama
[7:52 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I go with this unless overwhelming on the minimum wage consideration. Business costs must be factored with due respect for survival.
YT
[7:55 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I hope that the government will not just be pro workers but also pro business. With a minimum wage, many small businesses will see their costs go up. Passing the costs on to consumers may not always be workable. In the end, businesses are worse off.
Rama
[7:56 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Agree
[7:58 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I came across Parliament: Short-term work passes can fill skills gap in disruptive industries while S'poreans are being trained, says Leon Perera, Politics News & Top Stories - The Straits Times using SGNews https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sgnews.singaporenews
Jimmy Chew
[8:12 pm, 15/10/2020] +: sounds interesting, won't know until you try
[8:13 pm, 15/10/2020] +: automation may help
Stella
[8:16 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Whatever the wage, the integrity of the citizens should be protected. A pte ltd company with any amount of foreign ownership (not local sole prop small biz or local small citizen owned pte ltd biz whereby money multiplier effect will mostly benefit SG economy) operating in SG should pay a full time wage sufficient for the staff to live and feed his family without asking G for financial assistance. Doesnt make sense for G to subsidize citizen with welfare and stuff when that citizen has a full time job with foreign owned companies in SG.
[8:19 pm, 15/10/2020] +: This may attract more investors to take on SG citizenship rather than PR.
[8:20 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I think Haidilao boss has taken up SG citizenship. But do correct me if I got it wrong
WilsonLeong
[8:21 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Yes he and his spouse is Singaporean
Stella
[8:22 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Thanks for confirming, Wilson.
WilsonLeong
[8:25 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Both of them is very humble person. They don't really got air.
Stella
[8:25 pm, 15/10/2020] +: wah Wilson, u know these 2 big shots personally?
WilsonLeong
[8:26 pm, 15/10/2020] +: I met them during my course of work.
Stella
[8:28 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Good for u 👍
REACH
[8:44 pm, 15/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/dpm-heng-swee-keat-singapore-has-to-stay-open-and-linked-to-the-world-and-be
REACH
[8:45 pm, 15/10/2020] +: Dear Contributors!
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Megan
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