REACH 149 - Encourage ePayment for business and consumers (SK)

09 Oct 2020 (12pm - 7pm)

REACH

[1:16 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ Chats will be opened till 7pm today. ⏰

Please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group. 🙏🏼

REACH

[1:18 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

How do you think we can encourage more people and local businesses to use e-payments?

The Heartlands Go Digital programme, which was announced on Thursday (Oct 8), is part of the Government's broader revitalisation efforts in the heartland. The programme was launched to help about 20,000 retailers and food and beverage enterprises in the heartland to keep pace with digitalisation and adopt e-payments as well as other digital commerce solutions.

It will offer discounted solutions from five digital solution providers - Carousell, Fave, Grab, Nets and Shopee. Businesses can tap preferential discounted rates for e-payments and gain online visibility through promotions and advertising on these platforms.

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/business/new-programme-to-help-20000-enterprises-in-singapores-heartlands-adopt-e-payments-digital

+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

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[1:30 pm, 09/10/2020] +: pay them 10cts for every transactions

[1:34 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Eliminate merchant fees being directly passed down to consumers. Tell consumers cash got a lot of germs.

If related to e-wallet, give consumers interest rates or rebates or points.

[1:35 pm, 09/10/2020] +: pass to consumer, they do it in sim lim square, folks will opt for cash

[1:36 pm, 09/10/2020] +: To your first point: Apa???

[1:36 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I agree cash got lots of germs, but I still prefer holding cold hard cash tbh

[1:37 pm, 09/10/2020] +: This topic again? I think we covered it quite thoroughly the last time.

[1:37 pm, 09/10/2020] +: If i'm lucky, I might find notes which have printing error, or nice numbers which can generate more cash for me

[1:37 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Lots of input from many of us

[1:37 pm, 09/10/2020] +: What has merchant fee have to do with handling cash ah

[1:39 pm, 09/10/2020] +: actually, the best way out is to restrict the number of small change transaction each store is allowed to carry out per month

[1:42 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1.  Business must see the incentive to go epayment.

2. Consumer must also see the incentive to epayment.

Only then both business and consumer will be incentivise to use epayment.

For eg when I use epayment, I accumulate cash incentive which I can use to offset payment.

Then I will often use epayment to make payment because it is a form of discount when I make purchases.

[1:42 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

Global cooperation necessary to digitalise shipping industry and enhance global trade

8 Oct 2020

Digitalising the shipping industry can enhance global trade, but it will require stakeholders around the world to cooperate, said Senior Minister of State for Transport and Foreign Affairs Chee Hong Tat on Thursday (Oct 8).

As supply chains are becoming increasingly complex, with many parties spanning multiple countries, he said shipping is a key component, as it carries 80 per cent of the world's trade.

"Digitalisation is a national imperative for Singapore, to help us overcome our inherent constraints in size and resources," said Mr Chee.

He said that MPA will be rolling out the second phase of the digitalPORT @ SG, a platform to digitalise port processes, next year. It will enable just-in-time marine services for vessels calling on Singapore's port, based on real-time data, and will save vessels up to two days in turnaround time here, said Mr Chee.

Singapore is currently part of the Maritime Autonomous Surface Ships Port Network looking at how autonomous vessels can communicate with ports, and the DigitalOCEANS effort to set common data standards and exchange data with other ports to make port clearances more efficient, said Mr Chee.

"As the busiest transshipment port in the world, Singapore is also ready to serve as a test-bed for new initiatives and ideas from the global maritime community," he said.

In what he called a "mammoth task", Mr Chee stressed that the IMO has a vital role to play in leading the digital transformation of the shipping sector

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Danny Lum 07 Jul 2019 06:52AM

Solution - 3 steps process

(1) Plug nodes into critical market and ports - through joint projects, investments, joint ventures, industrial park, joint R&D etc. Eg. Chongqing CCI, Greater Bay Area in Guangdong and HK ports, Shanghai ports in Yangtze Delta, Vietnam ports, ASEAN ports, Indonesia ports, Australia ports, New Zealand ports, India ports etc ---- will be critical for us to link all them up by "smart precise investment and joint projects".

(2) Build virtual connectivity via Digitial Economy, market access, friendship, business contact, trade deals and agreements, trade, business, travel etc. ASEAN centrality, RCEP, CPTPP, BRI, Singapore FTA with India, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore FTA with China, Singapore FTA with Russia etc.

(3) Build up critical cores of port facilities, warehousing, logistic chain, transport connectivity, port-of-call, bunker facilities, all-in-one services, MRO etc - and link up with Step 1 and Step 2. ---- as well as with our FTA with EU, US, Africa, India, Russia, Africa etc ---- that will ensure they will ply into Singapore ports.

Solutions to Problem 2-

This is called :-

第二招 - 色是空，空是色。

- build physical nodes, and achieve integration with virtual connectivity and integration,

- through virtual connectivity - build physical maritime routes and physical connectivity back to Singapore ports.

Like · Reply · 1m

[1:44 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's incentive must be seen as discount to consumers.

Business must see epayment as cost savings to them - then it will incentivise business to adopt epayment.

[1:47 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

When incentives are given to business and consumers, those who use hard cold cash will have to pay more - which don't make business sense.

Hence the pull and push factors will drive more business and consumers to switch to epayment.

[1:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: and to add on, some shops actually pass down the charge for using credit/debit card payment to consumer

[1:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: which u won't have this issue with cash

[1:50 pm, 09/10/2020] +: What about support for sustaining the move of smaller businesses to these new form of payments? Apart from education, finance might be an issue too for shops which have been using traditional cash registers all their life

[1:51 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Notice that traditional banks has no tie up with the epayment platform like shoppe, fave, grab, carousel - then banks have no incentive to catalyse epayment - because these epayment platform cannibalise the traditional banks business.

Only nets, MasterCard, visa got tie up with traditional banks.

[1:56 pm, 09/10/2020] +: NETS is own by the 3 big local banks

[1:56 pm, 09/10/2020] +: lol

[1:57 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I don't see how that will harm the banks when DBS is the one spearheading with the e-payments with PayLah and with the other major banks following

[1:57 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Eg when I use paylah, I long long time will get some $ as cash incentive.

But when I use paywave, I got monthly cash incentive.

Tendency is I will keep using paywave because the cash incentive is very good.

[1:58 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But what about grab, carousel, shoppe etc?

[1:59 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

WeChat and alipay cannabalise China banks.

Now China govt go for digital yuan that will cannabalise WeChat and alipay.

[2:00 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Please stop spelling it as Shoppe, it's Shopee. And Carousell, not Carousel.

[2:01 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

same in Singapore, all these epayment platform will compete directly with traditional banks.

When digital banks license are awarded, the competition will be even more fierce.

[2:08 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Even though I have nets for a few decades, I don't use it because it provides no cash incentive.

Now even when I top up my ezlink, I use paywave, because it offers cash incentives kao kao.

So money incentive counts. Because it will help to switch consumers preference.

4Ps - price move people's preferences.

[2:10 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

2 more Ps - Promotion and Place.

Beat competition kao kao.

[2:15 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

Eg. Wirecard epayment platform - got to go for liquidation.

No support from banks.

So I trust banks affiliated epayment - because it got strong cash reserves backing.

[2:30 pm, 09/10/2020] +: add a C - Covid19 and you will have an outbreak cluster

[2:31 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: Hahahaha.

[2:31 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but really, the way to go is to restrict the amount of cash flowing into the market

[2:32 pm, 09/10/2020] +: especially the smaller denominations below $50

[2:32 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Imagine this: you go NTUC buy something, cashier tells you no small change, whats next?

[2:36 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I was told to use my credit or debit card !

[2:36 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I have not used cash in NTUC for many years already, because paywave give very good cash incentives.

I recall a lady in front of me accumulate more than $150 in cash incentive using paywave and she bought her groceries free of charge.

So what makes me want to use cash?

[2:36 pm, 09/10/2020] +: so there you go, it forces you to use e-payment right?

[2:36 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Debit card or credit card is paywave.

[2:37 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Yes

[2:37 pm, 09/10/2020] +: so long story short, restrict the small denomination from circulating in the market, why not remove all? Some seniors may not be able to catch up with technology, so having some in circulation will give them some buffer

[2:38 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Agree

[2:38 pm, 09/10/2020] +: can't totally eliminate cash

[2:38 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but can minimize it's usage and encourage more digital payments with incentives like cheaper prices

[2:38 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Yes

[2:39 pm, 09/10/2020] +: not eliminating la, just restricting the numbers in circulations

[2:39 pm, 09/10/2020] +: circulation*

[2:39 pm, 09/10/2020] +: eliminating it totally will be a nice vision, but will only take place after 2030 when people get used to epayment

[2:43 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Familiarity.. old folks cash is king 👑

[2:43 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Min OYK mentioned sometime ago, government aim is to do without cheque book by 2025 in the foot steps of Sweden

[2:43 pm, 09/10/2020] +: When the non smart phone user moved on

[2:44 pm, 09/10/2020] +: the banks are not prepared for this

[2:45 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I asked RHB and SCB on the potential payment instruments for companies who issue cheque payments, both bank says no directives yet

[2:46 pm, 09/10/2020] +: While it's a good move to remove cheque from the system, there are no alternative means for companies to use

[2:46 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Online banking there is limit

[2:46 pm, 09/10/2020] +: on a personal level, of course you can do fund transfer or paylah etc, but companies you cant

[2:46 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Cheque book is very useful

[2:46 pm, 09/10/2020] +: that is possible for company, but how do you prevent embezzlement?

[2:46 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Cheque offer security for big amount, also can post date cheque.

Cash transfer if wrongly transfer - that it.

[2:47 pm, 09/10/2020] +: i thought banks want to get rid of checks/cheque because it's expensive to clear them

[2:47 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Just minimise cash usage is good enough

[2:48 pm, 09/10/2020] +: double authentication like Banks are doing payment for banks to banks

[2:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: so if I issue 30 cheques per month, I should receive 30 calls from bank? Is that how it works?

[2:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: or rather, correction, 1 call per month for that batch of 30s*

[2:50 pm, 09/10/2020] +: No. Unless something wrong with your signature

[2:50 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but no more cheque already, what's there to sign?

[2:50 pm, 09/10/2020] +: There is cheque

[2:50 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I mean after 2025

[2:51 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Wait till then

[2:51 pm, 09/10/2020] +: oops, refering to electronic payments, authentication at company level, payor and Manger or if 1,000,000 get a Director to approve payment

[2:51 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I might be wrong, but MAS have yet to set the directions after 2025

[2:51 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Imagine paylah $100,000 but use wrong handphone number.

[2:52 pm, 09/10/2020] +: wa, that is really risk imo, I can work with my manager and siphon 1k per month and it wont get detected until audit

[2:52 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 👍 they talking for a very long time

[2:52 pm, 09/10/2020] +: there are stuff which we can foresee and we have to take pre-emptive measures

[2:52 pm, 09/10/2020] +: that is how we can stand out from the crowd

[2:53 pm, 09/10/2020] +: a group of 100 candidate turn up for an interview, all asking for same pay and same qualification, this are some of the ways to make you stand out among the rest

[2:53 pm, 09/10/2020] +: that is where the company i'm working taught me

[2:54 pm, 09/10/2020] +: another classic example is: during the start of the covid19 dorm outbreak, orders came down to site staff to seek approval from the mcst to deny entry to anyone who stays in dorm

[2:54 pm, 09/10/2020] +: the thing about cheques is that it gives an added layer of corporate governance in terms of signature verification, so you can designate joint signatures for cheques exceeding a certain amount. you can't do the same with electronic payments.

[2:56 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 1 of the suggestion, which is pretty interesting imo: HQ prepares the payment (or the person issuing cheque), approver (or the cheque signatory) login to interbanking and "approve" the funds virtually

[2:56 pm, 09/10/2020] +: sounds viable, it may work, but so far I think only RHB is working towards that direction

[2:56 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Also you do not need to know bank account details about the party you send cheque to. You also can ask someone to bank in the cheque.

[2:57 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but that's still a single point of authorisation. it offers no protection against a rogue authorised signatory who's making doddy payments.

[2:57 pm, 09/10/2020] +: *dodgy

[2:58 pm, 09/10/2020] +: you can have double approver

[2:58 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And the various epayment have transfer limit.

Once you hit the limit, transaction cannot go through.

Thus cheque is still a necessity.

[2:59 pm, 09/10/2020] +: another suggestion was to "submit" the list of invoice together with the payment details to bank, with the signatories signed on a cover page, bank will then proceed to do the transfer for all, with an admin fee charge

[2:59 pm, 09/10/2020] +: technically possible lah, if the platform can build in the 2-level approval process within its platform...

[2:59 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but doing so is lppl, long process, process long

[2:59 pm, 09/10/2020] +: more work for banks compared to clearing cheques

[3:00 pm, 09/10/2020] +: no, then that's almost as good as "outsourcing" the corporate governance to the bank to verify and release payments based on the authenticity of the transactions. that's a role to be performed by the company, the bank isn't in a position to do this from a risk perspective.

[3:01 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but ultimately, talk so much and talk so long, we still have to see what MAS says

[3:01 pm, 09/10/2020] +: and only to scramble after the directive is out

[3:02 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Banks still issuing cashier orders and cheques - and they are widely used.

[3:02 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Even when internet is down. Your phone ran out of battery or online banking service is not up. Cash and cheque work fine

[3:03 pm, 09/10/2020] +: yep, COs are used in conveyancing.

[3:04 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Exactly, stop pushing for full cashless system, it'll only cause chaos, even if we "have the most reliable power supply out there"

[3:04 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Cheques and cashier orders must be part of the financial system.

It is ok to promote epayment specially for smaller amount.

For bigger amount, cheques and cashier order are safer instruments.

[3:05 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I've said this before, in a fully cashless society, everyone will be bankrupt overnight if power or internet is gone (maybe for awhile, maybe for good) 

Don't ever eliminate physical cash

[3:05 pm, 09/10/2020] +: yah, i totally agree. i find that cash transactions are usually faster. just pass the $2 note to the aunty, rather than having her key in to the terminal, get it ready, you tap, then wait for it to go through..... so lehcheh

[3:06 pm, 09/10/2020] +: There's still more of a human element when it comes to finding change too, like some of the cashiers will simply ask if you have a certain amount, to make the calculations simpler, etc 

It becomes a short conversation which regardless of the pandemic, is how we stay human

[3:07 pm, 09/10/2020] +: yah, otherwise might as well just have vending machines...

[3:09 pm, 09/10/2020] +: actually, i prefer having vending machines

[3:09 pm, 09/10/2020] +: they are 24/7 operational, can buy food anytime

[3:09 pm, 09/10/2020] +: or whatever one wish to purchase

[3:09 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Not if you shift basically everything into vending machines

[3:09 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but you won't have your freshly fried curry puff......

[3:09 pm, 09/10/2020] +: then again, overall cost will go up

[3:10 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Too high up, there'll be too many middlemen involved

[3:10 pm, 09/10/2020] +: rental, electricity, manpower to replenish goods, maintenance, etc

[3:10 pm, 09/10/2020] +: and then we will have fellow kung fu experts kicking the machines, like lift buttons

[3:13 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 🤣

[3:14 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Overall bad idea, 

You can encourage digital adoption, but not at the expense of legacy cold hard cash of which I've already explained it's importance

[3:14 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Alot of scam happens because of epayment.

For big amount cheques can stop such scam for big amount.

Bank can stop it during intermediate period when clearing the cheque.

Bank transfer is immediate transfer and scam succeed immediately.

[3:14 pm, 09/10/2020] +: again, we can't have nice things unless the majority of us learn how to take care of, and not abuse the good things. correct me if i'm wrong

[3:15 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I don't suppose that's the point

[3:16 pm, 09/10/2020] +: LTA gave us rental bicycles for our last part of the journey, people steal it, dump it and abuse it.  LTA let us use PMD for convenience and reduce carbon footprint, people abuse it, modify it and started fire

[3:16 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Again, that isn't the point

[3:17 pm, 09/10/2020] +: it takes 2 hands to clap, LTA mis-managed it though..

[3:18 pm, 09/10/2020] +: No one got that right, it's simple for people to say, it's not easy to handle it from a PTA perspective

[3:19 pm, 09/10/2020] +: oh, those are actually linked to the vending machine idea 🤭

[3:19 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I don't see how 

The vending machine idea is already out

[3:20 pm, 09/10/2020] +: but there are still cases (although lesser now) of people abusing vending machines

[3:21 pm, 09/10/2020] +: like rocking and tilting them hoping for freebies to drop

[3:21 pm, 09/10/2020] +: We don't have to talk about vending machines in the first place though

[3:21 pm, 09/10/2020] +: okok, i'm sorry then, for going off topic

[3:40 pm, 09/10/2020] +: i bet to differ...

https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltagov/en/newsroom/2017/3/2/non-award-of-bicycle-sharing-tender.html

The ongoing plans by the private dockless bicycle-sharing system operators have obviated the need for a government-run system backed by government grants.

LTA put the fault and responsibilities to the bike operator but not the users... this is akin when Grab driver speeding kana summon but the summon is issued to Grab instead of the driver to infringed the speed limit..

[3:42 pm, 09/10/2020] +: so in 2017 LTA think is ok for the private to run wild... and when the wild fire burns... they have to control it.. such as the famous licensing fees!

https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/bike-sharing-licensing-fees-cannot-be-used-to-pay-debts#:~:text=A%20licensing%20rule%20was%20introduced,is%20valid%20for%20two%20years.

[3:42 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Uh huh I really don't know why we're talking about all these

[3:42 pm, 09/10/2020] +: haha cos i got triggered hahaha

[3:43 pm, 09/10/2020] +: @Berny mentioned about the shared bike and i happened to saw it lol

[3:43 pm, 09/10/2020] +: that went off topic though

[3:44 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 😅🤣😂

[3:46 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Super off topic even though it's my domain 

I feel as though we haven't actually reached any form of conclusion on the actual topic today

[3:47 pm, 09/10/2020] +: The collapse of most bike sharing company (excluding obike) was due to the mis-managment of thinking by LTA...

A licensing rule was introduced last year. At a cost of $60 per bike - comprising a $30 licence fee and a $30 security deposit - Mobike had to pay $1.5 million in fees for its fleet of 25,000 two-wheelers. The licence is valid for two years.

as is a new playground, most are new players, ok, Mobike & ofo big player have their own issues on the viablelity of the business model la

[3:47 pm, 09/10/2020] +: ok i stop my rant liao haha oops, sorry for off topics

[3:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: For the rest unhappy about LTA do feel free to PM me

[3:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

How do you think we can encourage more people and local businesses to use e-payments?

The Heartlands Go Digital programme, which was announced on Thursday (Oct 8), is part of the Government's broader revitalisation efforts in the heartland. The programme was launched to help about 20,000 retailers and food and beverage enterprises in the heartland to keep pace with digitalisation and adopt e-payments as well as other digital commerce solutions.

It will offer discounted solutions from five digital solution providers - Carousell, Fave, Grab, Nets and Shopee. Businesses can tap preferential discounted rates for e-payments and gain online visibility through promotions and advertising on these platforms.

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/business/new-programme-to-help-20000-enterprises-in-singapores-heartlands-adopt-e-payments-digital

[3:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Hihi here’s a recap of today’s topic :)

[3:52 pm, 09/10/2020] +: This will be a long haul effort but we have to start someshere and adapt along the way

[3:53 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Support epayment for business through incentives.

2. Keep cash in circulation.

3. Keep cheques and cashier orders in the financial system.

Let market decides their used by weighing their cost and benefits.

Don't use legislation to cut off their usage eg. Cheques usage.

Cheques and cashier order usage are still in high demand.

[3:54 pm, 09/10/2020] +: old habits die hard

[3:55 pm, 09/10/2020] +: China old embrace we chat payment 😛

[3:55 pm, 09/10/2020] +: my friends say no one uses cash 😜

[3:55 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I say keep cash, don't blindly follow the world

[3:55 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Only incentive can change people's habits if people find it useful to change.

By hard legislation is not the way.

[3:59 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 10 new Covid-19 cases in Singapore, including 9 imported

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/10-new-covid-19-cases-in-singapore-including-9-imported?xtor=CS3-18&utm_source=STiPhone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-10-09%2015%3A10%3A06

[4:02 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My old habits of many years change just in one night when I discover paywave offer good cash incentives.

For decade, I have been using paywave to pay in NTUC and other retail shops. 

I use cash only to buy food from coffeeshop or f&b that have no epayment.

[4:17 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

For outlets that charge extra when using paywave, I used paylah and if no SQ QR code, I use cash.

REACH

[4:19 pm, 09/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 9 Oct]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 1 new case of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.

Based on investigations so far, the case resides in a dormitory.

In addition, there are 9 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice or isolated upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 10 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh9octupdate

[4:21 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And any payment that is more than 4 figures - I use cheque and no epayment.

I set all epayment limit to low hundred to prevent online scam or fraud.

[4:22 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So :-

1. Epayment

2. Cash

3. Cheques and cashier orders

Are all necessary part of the financial system.

Cannot just use legislation to eliminate any of the financial instruments.

[4:52 pm, 09/10/2020] +: We’ll see if this takes off. There’s resistance from heartlands shop as there were additional overhead costs to the using of such digital payment systems. Offering discounts (I assume to these heartland merchants) won’t cut it unless there are like hundreds of shoppers who come to the shop and leave empty handed cos they don’t have a certain payment system.

[4:53 pm, 09/10/2020] +: If the shop says nope pls pay cash, ppl will still pay cash and that’s the end of the story.

[5:03 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Normally cash incentive is offer by banks tie up with epayment platform.

As consumers often have saving accounts or other accounts kept with banks - banks can offer cash incentive as a bundle approach.

Epayment platform that doesn't have bank account or other bundles can't offer cash incentive.

Thus I see epayment platform difficult to take off without working with banks.

Paywave work with banks in a bundle approach - that is why banks can offer cash incentives to both consumers and businesses.

[5:04 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Visa and MasterCard are paywave epayment platform.

[5:05 pm, 09/10/2020] +: 👍👍👍

[5:15 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Putting aside the discounts and govt subsidies that will go away, what are the real benefits to consumers, hawkers, and other cash-economy mon-pop businesses of using mobile e-payments over those that are available today?   Are there agencies looking into these platform's terms and conditions to ensure fairness and equitability for small businesses?

[5:17 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Yup. Cash is still legal tender...

[5:38 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Some neighbourhood clinic only accept cash.

[5:45 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Yes exactly cos there’s cost associated with digital payment platforms.

[5:47 pm, 09/10/2020] +: If there’s a cost that merchants have to pay for using it, while cash doesn’t have any costs associated to it, they won’t move to the platform unless you throw in online platform and delivery along with it.

[5:48 pm, 09/10/2020] +: I wonder why China dont have the issue of credit card high fees for merchants for their QR payment

[5:48 pm, 09/10/2020] +: or they ban visa and mastercard right

[5:48 pm, 09/10/2020] +: ?

[5:49 pm, 09/10/2020] +: If they have 50 pax walk-in customers per day but using the platform increases their sales by another 100pax per day then yes they will move to the platform simply cos they will earn more even if they pay for the platform.

[5:51 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because I think WeChat pay and alipay also perform as digital banks.

Singapore is trying to award digital banks to such epayment platform.

Alipay, grab, etc are trying to bid for digital banking license - head on competition with traditional banks.

[5:51 pm, 09/10/2020] +: ERP charges to go up by $1 at 2 sets of gantries along CTE from Oct 12

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/erp-charges-to-go-up-by-1-at-2-sets-of-gantries-along-cte-from-oct-12?xtor=CS3-18&utm_source=STiPhone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-10-09%2017%3A10%3A48

[6:00 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Haha once I was late and I used the CTE. I got charged ERP and the traffic was a crawl

[6:01 pm, 09/10/2020] +: They should increase it and make it movable haha if not the users are sitting ducks

[6:01 pm, 09/10/2020] +: qr code payment fees is much more lesser than the fees for credit card

[6:02 pm, 09/10/2020] +: setup cost is also much simpler and cheaper

[6:02 pm, 09/10/2020] +: now with covid, we use QR code for SafeEntry

[6:03 pm, 09/10/2020] +: hopefully ppl will be used to it for PayNow too

[6:04 pm, 09/10/2020] +: https://www.npr.org/2018/10/22/658808705/thousands-of-swedes-are-inserting-microchips-under-their-skin

[6:04 pm, 09/10/2020] +: maybe this will make it hip, just wave your hand and pay

[6:04 pm, 09/10/2020] +: and pay haha

[6:05 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's mean epayment platform can start to accept deposit for saving account and FD account and even start to offer Insurance service etc like a bank.

[6:10 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This digital banks are targeting SMEs and small businesses offering them loans that are shun by traditional banks who need collateral as pledge to secure a loan.

Digital banks don't use collateral as pledge, they use digital data to assess this sme risk before granting loans.

[6:12 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Thus for this digital banks to also offer epayment platform to this small business make sense because they can bundle services together and offer them cash incentive - with saving account, FD account, loans, Insurance and epayment in one bundle services.

[6:16 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

By doing so, sme and small businesses can grow as they have assess to digital banks loans at a low cost - in which they don't have now - as traditional banks don't loan them due to credit risk.

[6:29 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Golden Mile Complex to be conserved, with incentives to attract developers in future en bloc sale: URA https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/golden-mile-complex-to-be-conserved-with-incentives-to-attract-developers-in-future-en?utm_source=Telegram&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=STTG&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

[6:34 pm, 09/10/2020] +: COVID-19: One-off S$3,000 grant for parents of children born in the next 2 years

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/baby-support-grant-parenthood-population-indranee-13240666

[6:50 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is the reason why small business don't have cash incentive from traditional banks.

[6:54 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

To me, the compelling reason for epayment adoption is necessity. So, when we need to transact online, we need an epayment mode. 

As to what form of epayment modes and which services, then incentives play a big role in getting merchants and consumers to choose and even switch.

When epayment becomes prevalent, we can then start to mandate and those using cash becomes the minority and find it difficult transact. Eg. If we travel to china, we almost need to ensure we have alipay or life becomes inconvenient.

So, what are the transactions that the population are engaged in and need to transact frequently? So when Chinese nationals turn to taobao to purchase stuff then, they all have a common epayment mode, then when this was extended? Boom! Pervasive epayment adoption. Similarly, ask the merchants. 

Ezlink is a mode where majority of population uses. NETs too and increasing as people get use to hailing rides, adoption of Grab pay also goes up. adoption arising from need is important. 

Then encourage extension of usage. But new epayment players continue to enter this space. Then there s confusion of how many eWallets must I have? Then I get bribes by incentives switching around. Is that healthy? In a free market, let there be competition and spill blood. By if gov would like to facilitate some form of consolidation, then look at adoption rate, and some form of merger?

REACH

[7:06 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

+ changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group.

[8:57 pm, 09/10/2020] +: Golden Mile Complex to be proposed for conservation, incentives will be offered: URA

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/golden-mile-complex-proposed-for-conservation-incentives-13240674

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