REACH 159 - Open more green lanes to China, Australia (SK)

30 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[11:35 am, 30/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

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Megan 😊

REACH

[11:37 am, 30/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

Singapore had earlier announced unilateral green lanes for all forms of travel from Brunei, New Zealand, Vietnam and all other parts of Australia except Victoria. 

China and Victoria have just been added to the list, as they have comprehensive public health surveillance systems and have successfully controlled the spread of the Covid-19 virus.

All  travellers from China and the state of Victoria in Australia will now be able to enter Singapore and not be quarantined from next Friday (Nov 6), if they pass a Covid-19 test on arrival. 

Singapore’s move to unilaterally open its borders to these two places means tourists and travellers flying in can go about their business without serving a stay-home notice if their PCR (polymerase chain reaction) test is negative. 

The same applies to Singapore citizens, permanent residents and long-term pass holders returning from these two places. 

What are your views on the expansion of green lane countries for all forms of travel?

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/singapore-to-allow-travellers-from-china-australias-victoria-from-nov-6-no

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-opens-borders-to-china-australias-victoria-from-nov-6-what-other-travel-arrangements

+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

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Caleb

[11:40 am, 30/10/2020] +: about COVID, I not sure the number of test done to army and BMT. cause they also stay in dorm type.

[11:40 am, 30/10/2020] +: Our gov is like reactive

[11:40 am, 30/10/2020] +: See the Changi airport works caught the virus then start to have proactive 1 time screening and go on a routine testing.

[11:41 am, 30/10/2020] +: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1600281113493050&id=100005335308340&sfnsn=mo

[11:41 am, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes. Singapore tourism need tourists.

China is our largest tourist group.

Also the biggest spender.

It will boost our air travel, retail, hotel, f&b, taxi.

We have to let them come in.

[11:41 am, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes. Opening up border will bring up the active cases.

But as long as they don't infect local community, then is ok.

We need to keep the economy going.

But must not overwhelm our hospitals.

Kelvin Tan M L

[11:43 am, 30/10/2020] +: +1

Caleb

[11:44 am, 30/10/2020] +: By Dec 31? cause the last distribution of the token is end of dec.

[11:45 am, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

[2:06 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore economy is not possible to move into positive territory if we depend on our domestic economy alone.

Because our domestic market of 5.6 million is too small.

And we don't have domestic air travel because our land space is too small.

We need external market, trade, international travel, foreign investment etc - before our economy can move back into positive territory.

I will not be surprised that the parliament will put forward policies on surgical, systematic, safe opening up of our air hub, air travel, access to external market etc - to boost our business and create jobs.

[11:46 am, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

[2:34 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

In other words, I propose the "ring-fence" approach to air travel, tours, green lanes, MICE etc - that includes testing, safe distancing, segregation of overseas travellers from local community, isolation, quarantine - from airport, transit areas, hotels, tourists spots, f&b, retail, tour bus, convention areas, meeting place, event halls etc - to reboot our economy.

MOT Ong YK call it the "air bubbles" or "air corridors".

I hope parliament can provide more details on this aspect - and how it will help to reboot our external economy and travel - albeit doing it safely and no cross infection into our local community.

YT

[11:47 am, 30/10/2020] +: Our very first cases came from there. Never forget. Hopefully no hasty decisions just because of money. Just saying...

Caleb

[11:47 am, 30/10/2020] +: Is it ALL or selected places?

Many are unsure of this

[11:48 am, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

[12:26 pm, 17/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

We have to maintain our air hub, air travel through organised travel, group insurance and health test - through bilateral arrangements with countries - to ensure covid will not be imported - but targeted MICE, tourism, retail, f&b can be safely arranged for foreign tours to preserve our air hub, aviation sector and our retail.

Else our air hub may demise.

[3:23 pm, 17/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our keyword, our strategy is known as  "ring-fence".

Ring-fence tours, ring-fence MICE.

Singapore did very well in ring-fencing our dorms, aged home, hospitals, schools, work place, air transit, malls etc - to prevent infection spreading.

Similarly, we can extend our ring-fence expertise into organised tours and MICE - so as to reboot our air hub and tourism sector.

[2:22 pm, 17/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also air plane 200 passengers per flight, easy to organise hotel, tour bus, retail visit, tours, f&b and maintain social distancing and covid test.

[5:01 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our tourism and air hub use to generate $25 billion to our economy every year.

Can we target a step up approach to hit $10 billion first.

Then 3 months later to $15 billion.

Another 3 months to $20 billion.

And then finally to $25 billion by using:-

1. "Ring-fence" air bubbles - from each events at each place of activities.

2. "Safe tunneling" air corridors - end to end tunneling approach from airport, to various places like hotels, food, tourists spots and back home.

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[11:51 am, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Need Chinese travellers to come in and revive hospitality sector.

Caleb

[11:52 am, 30/10/2020] +: When they come in, must have TT app/token with them at all times?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:03 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Ya lor is this communicated to them? It's as if gahmen agencies not on the same page with one another

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[12:13 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

People Bank of China for the first time allows digital yuan to be converted to physical yuan.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiENLI3RCD6VqX9UxT-QGGf0sqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMKqaxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

[12:13 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. This spell good news to Singapore as offshore yuan currency trading house.

2. We can still maintain our role as yuan currency exchange - while exploring how to integrate with China DCEP digital yuan.

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Fulgrim

[12:19 pm, 30/10/2020] +: How to implement this property is the crux. Already got some staff at Changi kena covid Liao.

[12:20 pm, 30/10/2020] +: The biggest issue however is if other countries will even let their citizens out. So far all are playing safe

[12:20 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Even our own government so far still doesn't encourage pple to go overseas for holiday

[12:22 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hospitals staff are treating covid patients but yet not infected.

Changi airport staff must maintain the same PPE as we open up our doors to more overseas travellers - to thoroughly test the travellers before allowing them in.

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REACH

[12:23 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/covid-19-test-lab-at-changi-airport-slated-to-open-in-the-first-quarter-of-2021

Valli

[12:25 pm, 30/10/2020] +: No matter from which country , 

2 weeks SHN should be the protocol for the time being since Gov is opening up to many countries. 

We cannot be complacent bcos imported cases is on the high side.

[12:28 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/robinsons-to-close-last-2-stores-in-singapore-due-to-weak-demand-13412924                                                             Business is bad for retail - have to close down - and Singaporeans are losing jobs.

Valli

[12:31 pm, 30/10/2020] +: But countries with high cases are not bothered about their people going overseas & infecting others .

anfan

[12:53 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Taiwan has no local case for more than 200 days. Not fair to serve 14 days SHN for Taiwan travellers.

Alvin

[1:04 pm, 30/10/2020] +: We should form green lane with countries that mandate (or at least cultural norm) of wearing masks in public.

I.E Taiwan HK Japan

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:04 pm, 30/10/2020] +: North East Asia basically!

Alvin

[1:08 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Yes

[1:08 pm, 30/10/2020] +: East Asia

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:09 pm, 30/10/2020] +: They da real masked riders lol

Alvin

[1:09 pm, 30/10/2020] +: 🤭

[1:09 pm, 30/10/2020] +: This May pressure other countries to mandate wearing masks to be included into the green lane/air bubble

[1:10 pm, 30/10/2020] +: I believe if everyone in the world wears masks in public the infection rates will fall

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:10 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Actually good idea sia, like a filter!

Spencer

[1:16 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/vUtT6PGQfiKTCBj7R0ZYIg?typeid=158

[1:16 pm, 30/10/2020] +: You need to read that if you really believe Taiwan's "Forever Zero Report"

Stella

[1:17 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Provided not valve mask. If wear valve mask then only protect wearer, does not protect others.

Alvin

[1:20 pm, 30/10/2020] +: I think cloth or surgical masks should be ok

[1:20 pm, 30/10/2020] +: I’ve seen some wearing valve masks in sg also

Stella

[1:21 pm, 30/10/2020] +: yes

[1:21 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

We need to take calculated risk but not reckless.

1. Test thoroughly and make sure not infected.

2. Overseas travellers must wear masks like us.

3. They must adopt safe distancing measures like us.

4. They must scan SafeEntry, tracetogether.

5. So the chances of them infecting us very slim.

Previously, the overseas traveller got infected, don't know, didn't wear masks, and we don't wear masks, they infect us.

Now everyone wear mask and take precautions.

So the chances of overseas travellers infecting local community - quite slim.

Stella

[1:21 pm, 30/10/2020] +: yes, mostly foreigners

[1:21 pm, 30/10/2020] +: when i see valve mask people, i walk far far away

[1:23 pm, 30/10/2020] +: if anyone dont already know why valve mask is a selfish mash during covid 19 times, please google, plenty of articles on this.

Ken

[1:25 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Cause easy to breathe and no one say ban

[1:25 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Only advice to not use it

Stella

[1:26 pm, 30/10/2020] +: ya lor

[1:27 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Bcos G never ban so boh bian, just have to keep a lookout and stay away from valve mask people

CQ

[1:28 pm, 30/10/2020] +: so if you have valve mask meeting valve mask... hur.........

[1:29 pm, 30/10/2020] +: that's why it's mask + social distancing and not just mask alone.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:29 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Technically on theory nothing will happen lol :3

CQ

[1:30 pm, 30/10/2020] +: yah lor, cos i see fellow valve mask, i siam

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:32 pm, 30/10/2020] +: No lah if valve meet valve, both out no in, so these two won't kena anything while the rest suffer lor

Stella

[1:41 pm, 30/10/2020] +: U wear valve mask??

CQ

[1:41 pm, 30/10/2020] +: no i don't

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:41 pm, 30/10/2020] +: You never see ah 

She say she siam

Stella

[1:41 pm, 30/10/2020] +: TQ

CQ

[1:42 pm, 30/10/2020] +: i didn't realise it's a one-way valve, i've always thought it was a two-way free flow of air and whatever droplets, so that's why i thought it was totally useless. i only learnt today that it's really a selfish mask!

Ken

[1:44 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Haha.. oh well.. people are selfish 🤷🏻‍♂️

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:45 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Fishmongers I say, they sell fish!!

CQ

[1:46 pm, 30/10/2020] +: actually Lazada and Wish are also starting to sell thinner masks for summer, cos "easier to breathe". it's really following the letter of the law but not the spirit lor

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:46 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Anyways it's now pretty much up to those who know and eventually gahmen to once again make it clear that efficacy of the mask is superr important, and we cannot sacrifice it for say easy breathing or more comfort, etc

CQ

[1:48 pm, 30/10/2020] +: but you also can't quite control if people want to buy online, and even if you specify the thickness, it's not like you can go around checking how thick the masks really are....

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:48 pm, 30/10/2020] +: At least make the effort to educate, maybe some really don't know, doesn't mean they're totally selfish

CQ

[1:49 pm, 30/10/2020] +: yah that's true...

Stella

[1:50 pm, 30/10/2020] +: who should make effort to educate?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:50 pm, 30/10/2020] +: People who know about this (i.e. u) and eventually gahmen since there's no word from them

Ken

[1:50 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Lol haven’t see bubble tea mask? 🤣🤣

CQ

[1:51 pm, 30/10/2020] +: what bubble tea mask????

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:51 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Don't tell me got straw sticking out :3

Ken

[1:51 pm, 30/10/2020] +: 🤣🤣🤣

Stella

[1:51 pm, 30/10/2020] +: aiyah i tot PT volunteering 🤭

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:52 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Since when?

Stella

[1:52 pm, 30/10/2020] +: wah this is good

CQ

[1:52 pm, 30/10/2020] +: OH MY GOSH!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Stella

[1:53 pm, 30/10/2020] +: when u push for it

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:53 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Honestly it shouldn't be our responsibility if MOH doesn't even say anything to begin with 

Later another Nimama case

CQ

[2:00 pm, 30/10/2020] +: i do take the effort to tell my folks lah, just to make sure they don't buy the valve masks just cos it's cheap and claims to make it easier to breathe. i wouldn't know if they go on to tell their friends or i hope they don't wu dai boh dai keep hanging out at the coffeeshop or park

Valli

[2:02 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Agree

Stella

[2:03 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://totobobo.com/shop.html

[2:04 pm, 30/10/2020] +: this is filter mask, not valve mask

[2:04 pm, 30/10/2020] +: if old folks dont mind looking a bit less normal, can buy for them

[2:05 pm, 30/10/2020] +: SG product

[2:05 pm, 30/10/2020] +: my friends wear this when they cycle

REACH

[2:07 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Singapore’s unemployment rate climbed to 3.6% in September. The number of retrenchments is expected to hit 9,100 in the third quarter.

https://cna.asia/3mAiAgL

Caleb

[2:16 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Mandatory in mrt?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:17 pm, 30/10/2020] +: No, currently still more like "can you please do it?? Pleaseeeeee???" rather than "You must do it"

Caleb

[2:17 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Thought they say public transport is low risk

[2:17 pm, 30/10/2020] +: 🤭

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:18 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Low risk is low risk but we also know when it becomes high risk 

It's half damage control half truth

Caleb

[2:19 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Mandatory but not compulsory.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:20 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Technically the word mandatory isn't that threatening as compared to compulsory 

Could be desensitisation, could be our perception of the word when compared to other synonyms

[2:28 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Travellers entering singapore should complete watching an educational video regarding sg latest fight covid measures. All travellers must comply accordingly. No excuse for ignorance.

Question is Chinese travellers are tested upon entering singapore. Before the tests results are known, in the mean time, are they free to roam around?

There lies the risks. China itself is bracing for second wave in view of coming cold winter months. How can we be sure to react quickly?

Stella

[2:30 pm, 30/10/2020] +: I thought now got quick result test kits already, so should use those on incoming. Or are those quick result test kits not readily available yet?

[2:32 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Those are not PCR test faster but not so accurate.

Not sure Singapore position on which test we are using.

Boon

[3:19 pm, 30/10/2020] +: There is never a "good time" to say when to open and common sense Prudence and safeguards are important for Sg to sustain its opening of "green lanes". There is a single point of failure though, on the complete reliance of PCR as the only filter of SHN or no-SHN. PCR of the nasopharynx (and we assume this is the PCR) may be really sensitive and effective, but these are also probability-based.   Are there additional (simple) filters in hotels and locations of where these inbound visitors would stay e.g. daily temperature checks? Are hotels briefed on what to do in case there suspected Covid cases happen, and what are the safeguards to mitigate a temptation by businesses not to report suspected cases in case it hits business again?

[3:21 pm, 30/10/2020] +: The announcement of Singapore's unilateral green lanes, if accompanied by common sense prudential safeguards in Singapore, would be comforting. And that economic health is being balanced with care for human health.

REACH

[3:54 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Singapore reports 9 new Covid-19 cases, including 1 in the community and 7 imported.

https://str.sg/JufW

REACH

[4:09 pm, 30/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 30 Oct]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 2 new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.

Based on investigations so far, 1 is in the community, and 1 resides in a dormitory.

There are 7 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice or isolated upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 9 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh30octupdate

REACH

[4:13 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/dengue-residents-landed-houses-higher-risk-mosquitos-13414182

[4:20 pm, 30/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Wonder why not dispatch more male wolbachia mosquito in the landed estate areas so that aedes female mosquito cannot breed.

Caleb

[4:29 pm, 30/10/2020] +: too large surface area I guess

[4:29 pm, 30/10/2020] +: cant product enough wolbachia mosqutio

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:31 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Hahaha not enough "woohoo" to produce the males, the irony!

Caleb

[4:43 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Woah

REACH

[5:19 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/quick-build-dorms-7-built-8-more-to-be-ready-by-2021-says-desmond-lee

REACH

[5:58 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/private-hire-cars-to-be-sent-for-regular-inspections-with-new-p2p-framework

REACH

[6:09 pm, 30/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/89000-have-received-covid-19-support-grant-10000-successfully-applied-for-second-round

REACH

[6:45 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Dear Contributors!

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Megan

Alvin

[6:46 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Gdnite Megan!

Rama

[6:46 pm, 30/10/2020] +: 🤙👌✋🙏👏👍

REACH

[7:01 pm, 30/10/2020] +: Hi REACH Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Have a good weekend and good night!😴

Megan ☺

+ changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group.

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REACH 158 - SHN for oversea travellers (SK)

28 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[6:24 pm, 27/10/2020] +: SAF could use rapid COVID-19 tests during large-scale events like graduation parades

The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) is trialling the use of antigen rapid tests (ART) for large-scale events where faster turnaround of results is critical. 

This includes events like graduation parades and important conferences, or when rapid contact tracing is needed after a COVID-19 case is reported.

Graduation parades, like those marking the end of Basic Military Training, are currently being held in the form of smaller, decentralised ceremonies.

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/saf-covid-19-rapid-tests-large-scale-events-graduation-parade-13383710

REACH

[7:23 pm, 27/10/2020] +: TraceTogether tokens to be distributed one constituency at a time from Thursday

The distribution of TraceTogether tokens, which has been ongoing at 38 community centres (CCs) for the past six weeks, has been temporarily suspended so that the tokens can be distributed one constituency at a time.

This is to prevent long queues from forming at certain CCs, which was what happened last weekend following the announcement that the TraceTogether app or token will be required for SafeEntry check-ins across a range of popular venues from December.

The Smart Nation and Digital Government Office (SNDGO) said on Tuesday (Oct 27) the new mode of distribution will begin on Thursday, starting with Marsiling CC.

More: https://str.sg/Juoo

REACH

[8:32 pm, 27/10/2020] +: Travellers from more countries allowed to serve stay-home notices at own place of residence

Travellers from more countries will be allowed to serve their stay-home notices at their own place of residence when they arrive here from Nov 4.

These countries include Estonia, Fiji, Finland, Japan, Norway, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Turkey, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) in a statement on Tuesday evening (Oct 27).

Travellers from these countries can apply to opt out of dedicated stay-home notice facilities from Nov 2.

More: 

- https://str.sg/JuoT

- https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/updates-to-stay-home-notice-and-charging-policy-for-travellers

REACH

[11:37 am, 28/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat until 7 pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

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Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. Thank you.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Megan 😊

REACH

[11:40 am, 28/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

What are your views on travellers being able to serve their Stay-Home Notice (SHN) at their places of residence?

Travellers from more countries will be allowed to serve their stay-home notices at their own place of residence when they arrive here from Nov 4.

These countries are Estonia, Fiji, Finland, Japan, Norway, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Turkey, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) in a statement on Tuesday evening (Oct 27).

Travellers from these countries can apply to opt out of dedicated stay-home notice facilities from Nov 2.

This is conditional on them fulfilling certain criteria, such as having not travelled to other countries aside from the ones mentioned in the last 14 days prior to entry. 

They must also be staying in their place of residence alone, or only with household members who are also serving stay-home notices and have the same travel history and duration.

However, as the list of countries will be consistently updated according to public health risk assessment, “all travellers must be prepared to be subject to the prevailing border measures upon entry, including stay in dedicated stay-home notice facilities and payment, where applicable”, said the MOH.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/travellers-from-more-countries-allowed-to-serve-stay-home-notices-at-own-place-of

👉 https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/updates-to-stay-home-notice-and-charging-policy-for-travellers 

+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

REACH

[11:42 am, 28/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 28 Oct]

Use TraceTogether for SafeEntry check-in

You may use either the TraceTogether (TT) App on your phone or the TT Token for SafeEntry check-in. 

📱 Download the latest version of the TT App for your phone: www.tracetogether.gov.sg

If you need the TT Token:

✅ You can collect from 29 Oct - ONLY at your designated Community Centres/Clubs

✅ Check token.gowhere.gov.sg for your collection venue and start date

❌  No Token collection on 28 Oct. Restocking in progress. 

❌ You DON’T need the Token if you have the TT App

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Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:44 am, 28/10/2020] +: Exactly! Don't complicate matters if you already have the app lor seriously ah some chao sinkies

Alvin

[11:54 am, 28/10/2020] +: Might as well say if got smart phone you don’t need the token cos with smart phone you can download the app

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:55 am, 28/10/2020] +: The "panicc" is unnecessary one lor 

People don't realise why got token meh? It's because gahmen trying to REACH those that don't have the app ma

Rama

[11:57 am, 28/10/2020] +: It reduces cost which is good.

XaniceAfcai

[11:58 am, 28/10/2020] +: Disagree. Some have smartphone but can't bring ard due to some reason. Hence, token will be good.

Also some no data..

Alvin

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: How will MOH ensure that these travellers don’t step out of their residences? What about their family or friends that come in contact with?

Valli

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: negative covid19 test done & declared before arrival to Singapore should be made compulsory irrespective of which country they are from

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: Red zone isit

Alvin

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: Exactly lor

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: I would also prefer token

XaniceAfcai

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: Yes. So token will be gd.

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: I saw ppls hanging onto their neck

Alvin

[11:59 am, 28/10/2020] +: Won’t accidentally turn off the app by mistake with the token

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Ok then we should work on the possible exceptions

[12:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Ya I already see some elderly with it

[12:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Meanwhile tampering is another story 🤭

Alvin

[12:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤦🏻‍♂️

[12:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: That’s why we can’t have nice things

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Hanor

[12:03 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Imported infection is now our highest infected numbers every day.

2. But we need to open our borders for business.

3. Putting overseas travellers into dedicated facilities is expensive.

4. Thus allowing them to SHN is another good alternative.

5. Safeguard such as monitoring they remain at home until their quarantine is over is necessary.

6. Using technology and surveillance become necessary to ensure they don't infect the local community.

Rama

[12:11 pm, 28/10/2020] +: There's a device given i believe is a  distance tracker so stray beyond a certain distance triggers a notification to the agency doing the monitoring

Alvin

[12:14 pm, 28/10/2020] +: There is such a thing? 🤔

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:15 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Not like last time do the occasional check-in thing ah?

Rama

[12:16 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I saw it during a news channel on mediacorp some time back.

Ana

[12:17 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think it's a good move. My concern is with the MOH announcement about lack of government funding and private insurance coverage for covid19 treatment

Alvin

[12:19 pm, 28/10/2020] +: OIC but I suppose this can be taken off right?

[12:21 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think they need to install a gateway Bluetooth device in their home.

They also need to wear a tamper proof Bluetooth and GPS device like a watch.

If they walk out of their home, the gateway Bluetooth cannot detect the wearer device and will send alert to immigration.

The GPS chip will send notification to immigration the exact location of the wearer.

If they attempt to cut or remove the device they wear, an alarm will also be sent to the immigration.

Rama

[12:22 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I guess so but no regular update to service provider will trigger either a visit by them or video call.

Alvin

[12:24 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Oic I think I read this somewhere as well

[12:24 pm, 28/10/2020] +: But in terms of efficiency this isn’t good

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: But still got gap must close

Alvin

[12:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Technically those who are on SHN shouldn’t be able to scan their ID or SafeEntry outside during their confinement

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If they scan then how ah, red alert? Arrest on the spot? 😂

Alvin

[12:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: So a blacklist should be enforced on shopping malls etc for those on SHN

[12:26 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Can’t scan

[12:26 pm, 28/10/2020] +: So they will be denied entry

[12:26 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Such technology easy to R&D and implement - but very effective to track and ensure people stay at home if quarantine.

All you need is Bluetooth antenna, GPS chip, 4G SIM card.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:26 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Ya but should also give the staff on-site to deal with them

Alvin

[12:26 pm, 28/10/2020] +: That way even if the flout the rules they can only be outside in open spaces

[12:26 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Yes onsite staff should reject their entry

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:28 pm, 28/10/2020] +: But if say deny entry should also still record their info and detain them somewhere or something 

I know it'll kind of be costly to the facility management cuz need to find somewhere to detain the bodoh and then afterwards need to disinfect the entire area zzz

Alvin

[12:32 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I dun think the security scan guys have the authority to detain anyone

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:33 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If not the suspect run away or something ma at least need to give them power through this denied entry log to take action against the runaway or something

[12:34 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why I say - no need Google map can also track the person location.

The GPS chip can easily pick up by Telco GPS extender and relay back to immigration.

[12:35 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Via 4G.

[1:02 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because if the wearer remove or cut off the watch strap, the circuitry will be cut off or a sensor can detect the circuitry is cut - and the 4G in wearer device will send an alert to immigration.

So tamper proof, foolproof.

[1:06 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And if the person attempt to switch off the Bluetooth gateway, immigration device cannot ping or traceroute the Bluetooth gateway device - that means the gateway is being tamper with.

The person gateway SNMP will appear red in the immigration network management system.

This mean the Bluetooth gateway is being tamper with.

So the gateway system is tamper proof and foolproof.

[1:08 pm, 28/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So no need 4G also can detect the Bluetooth gateway is being switch off and tamper with.

REACH

[1:19 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Iris, face scanning for immigration clearance at most checkpoints since July

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/iris-face-scanning-immigration-clearance-checkpoints-ica-13393148

REACH

[1:20 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Singapore economy to see more protracted recovery from Covid-19 than past recessions: MAS

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/singapore-to-see-uneven-and-protracted-recovery-from-covid-19-recession-amid-job?xtor=CS3-18&utm_source=STiPhone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-10-28%2013%3A10%3A43

----

[1:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Sounds like: don't go anywhere

[1:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Don't go where

[1:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Actually it's misleading. 

As not all places yet can scan with the token.

[1:53 pm, 28/10/2020] +: MY area have to wait till end dec then can take. http://token.gowhere.gov.sg

Means next year then gov will implement more places with TT-ONLY SE?

[1:53 pm, 28/10/2020] +: That's the issue!

[1:54 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Or does it mean, If can't scan in with token means not a must to do SE?

[1:54 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤭

[1:55 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Honestly I doubt there would've been so much issue with distribution if not for people rushing to get it when they probably don't even need it lor

[1:55 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Gov need to communicate more effectively.

[1:55 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤷‍♀️

[1:56 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Never ending fine tuning!😞😞

[1:56 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The information are all over the place/website.

Maybe need a ask.gov.sg website with all the gov info

[2:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The reason for rushing is due to ppl think gov will implement TT compulsory at shopping malls soon

[2:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Not a valid reason for those who already have the app 😠

[2:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think clear communication on when TT is compulsory should be stated

[2:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Ya. And what are the places. Is it all or selected

[2:01 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Eg TT compulsory only after everyone has token or app

[2:01 pm, 28/10/2020] +: News stated shopping malls cinemas etc

[2:01 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Actually isn't this the case? Or really miscomm?

[2:01 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I know. Is it ALL or what

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Everyone meaning? 100 percent. 

Means go everyone also must use it?

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Places in enclosed area with large groups of ppl will need TT

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Large grp is above 50?

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Likely

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: U see, gov never say clearly. We have to guess

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: So all rushing to get it

[2:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: No idea

[2:03 pm, 28/10/2020] +: But likely myself who like to have a token but will follow the distribution dates on my constituency I’m waiting for it

[2:03 pm, 28/10/2020] +: But cos I have TT app

[2:04 pm, 28/10/2020] +: So I won’t rush

[2:04 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Let’s just say this is Xiasuay Part 10

[2:05 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Thought this is part 2. 1 is the toilet roll

[2:08 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Actually can it be given out by the mask vending machine? Just need to bubble wrap the token

[2:09 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Oh cannot. Cause need to scan the QR code of the token and NRIC to store them for future reference.

[2:11 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Send by mail, may be feasible.

[2:13 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Very

---

[2:15 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Super super xiasuay la

[2:31 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Mask vending machine need to scan IC so means already got record, correct?  So why token cannot??

[2:33 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤷‍♀️

[2:34 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Now when issue at CC, need to scan the QR on the token.

[2:34 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I guess the thing is masks are of lower value than a token so cannot suka suka use NRIC

[2:34 pm, 28/10/2020] +: So it links the token to who it belongs

[2:35 pm, 28/10/2020] +: This project can rename confuseTogether liao

[2:35 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I like!

[2:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: ConfuseTogether cause citizens together as one to find gov info.

[2:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Govusion :3

[2:40 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Cool. Like fusion of things

[3:02 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Wait kena stolen :3

[3:04 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Registered mail la

[3:07 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Then back to the old problem liao lor

[3:11 pm, 28/10/2020] +: This one got ppl want to steal meh

[3:11 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If got people want to rip it apart, what makes you think no one will want to steal it leh?

[3:15 pm, 28/10/2020] +: when you collect, they will link the token to the person. that's why need physical collection.

[3:15 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Not only stolen but may end up in black market

[3:15 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Eg I sell away my token

[3:16 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Cos I take liao you can’t force me what I want to do with it mah

[3:16 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I can don’t register the token and sell it away

[3:17 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Hugh!?

[3:18 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The possibilities are endless so let's never think "this will never happen" because it could very well happen

[3:18 pm, 28/10/2020] +: no ah... at collection, they link the token to you. even if you sell it away, it's still tagged to you.

[3:19 pm, 28/10/2020] +: and not like the token would be of any value or utility other than contact tracing. so who would buy it on "black market"??

[3:20 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Caleb was suggesting mail to us instead of collection

[3:20 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The electronics? Who knows?

[3:21 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Reverse engineer etc

[3:22 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Other countries might want to take a look what’s inside

[3:22 pm, 28/10/2020] +: So true actually, remember that global cooperation thing? Even that one is case-by-case basis one

[3:23 pm, 28/10/2020] +: either way, i was trying to correct the misconceptions among my friends also. that it went from "not compulsory" to "mandatory", everyone need to collect etc etc. wah piang.... Can there be a clearer message to go out that the TraceTogether App still works and the token serves the SAME FUNCTION? omg i can't believe how many times i've had to say that to various people. unless you don't have a smart phone or don't have a phone at all, you don't need the token. one of the app updates has also resolved the battery drain issue, so really no need one...

[3:24 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think is user habit.

[3:24 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Like those who go out and use bluetooth earpiece

[3:24 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I guess some people don't have common sense thus the issue - I believe most of us here already know why we have tokens and whether we need them or not

[3:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Or those who sync there HPB tracker

[3:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Will always on their BT

[3:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If let's say you don't have reliable internet (not on postpaid) or your storage space fluctuates like mad (trust me, I've been there, seen that, suffered from that) then I would say get the token. Otherwise, just use the damn TT app

[3:26 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 7 new Covid-19 cases in Singapore, all imported

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/7-new-covid-19-cases-in-singapore-all-imported?xtor=CS3-18&utm_source=STiPhone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-10-28%2015%3A10%3A33

[3:27 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The token is the physical gap-closing device that reaches out to those who do not have the TT app 

Not a complement and not a requirement if you have the app 

Perhaps it really is gahmen's fault that the communications and PR wasn't done properly but to me I pretty much understand what is going on and already have the required app and perform SE check-ins everywhere I go with the exception of Public Transport facilities (I have my obvious reasons)

[3:28 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think it’s a comms issue pls expectation thing

[3:28 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Sinkies kiasi one so if you issue something for free ppl sure chiong for it

[3:29 pm, 28/10/2020] +: A simple way is send a letter to each household tell them the period to collect the token at which CC and what to bring along

[3:29 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think right now we have ironed out the few exceptions such as red zones, unreliable internet and storage fluctuations - we should continue to think of more

[3:30 pm, 28/10/2020] +: maybe should make them pay a deposit maybe $5.... it's not technically your property right? if you tamper with it, you can kena criminal charge.

[3:30 pm, 28/10/2020] +: On the letter, put that volunteers will not entertain ppl outside their collection period or outside their assigned CC etc

[3:30 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I don't see how a deposit of $5 can deter anyone though

[3:31 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Worse ppl will incentivize to sell it for profit

[3:31 pm, 28/10/2020] +: the deposit can only be refunded if there's no signs of tampering. and it turns away the "because free therefore must take or else i lugi" part of the population.

[3:31 pm, 28/10/2020] +: You don’t want to associate a value to this item

[3:32 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Not a good idea, people will see the token as much more than $5

[3:32 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If this COVID never end. The $5 will also be deposited like CPF lei

[3:32 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Otherwise all the scalpers and money minded ppl will start selling it etc

[3:32 pm, 28/10/2020] +: HAHAHA

[3:32 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[3:33 pm, 28/10/2020] +: And we want to encourage this grp of ppl to take and use the token

[3:33 pm, 28/10/2020] +: hmm... that's true also..... i stand corrected!

[3:33 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The poor will not want to pay this

[3:33 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think at the end of the day is to curb the number of people having these tokens when they don't need it

[3:34 pm, 28/10/2020] +: After all it's an accessibility/equity thing, but kena ruined by chao xiasuay kiasu sinkies

[3:35 pm, 28/10/2020] +: yah, totally....

[3:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: All I can say is: If you want to issue free stuff to sinkies, be prepared to issue to everyone.

[3:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: i saw social media comments that "eh, garmen poor planning, now all the old folks have to congregate and rush because they suddenly made it mandatory". no lor, just look at the picture on the article, number of old folks in that pic can count with 1 hand.

[3:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Be prepared to face issues first 😆

[3:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Otherwise ppl will say the system unfair how come others get they don’t get etc

[3:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: There will be no end to the complaints

[3:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If not ready to rollout to all, the need to tighten the issue period etc

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Eg low income elderly first etc

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: They received letter they collect first

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Actually so far so good that I see elderly people who really need the token already have it

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: "but then garmen say mandatory wor........" 🙄

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Those don’t receive letter wait for your turn etc

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Some special needs ones like I think from MINDS also have the tokens already

[3:37 pm, 28/10/2020] +: really, all the sheep. one move all must move

[3:38 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Really will argue to no end one

[3:38 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If really whole SG die die want the tokens I doubt there will be enough to go around the entire island either

[3:38 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Cos they will say the tokens are paid for by tax payers money

[3:38 pm, 28/10/2020] +: All of us are tax payers

[3:39 pm, 28/10/2020] +: As nauseum

[3:39 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Ad nauseumw

[3:39 pm, 28/10/2020] +: No end to it

[3:39 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I think gahmen need to come down hard on the statement that tokens are for those who need tokens, if you don't need don't go collect 

Strong comms necessary to send the signal

[3:40 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Who knew a simple distribution can become so complicated? Sian

[3:40 pm, 28/10/2020] +: hur.... maybe during collection, the staff have to ask "show me your phone". smartphone cannot collect 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[3:41 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I would take your statement as a joke but don't forget about the exceptions

[3:41 pm, 28/10/2020] +: of course it's a joke!!

[3:41 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Red zone - Your place of employment got red zone anot?

Internet - Postpaid anot? 

Storage space - Stable anot?

[3:41 pm, 28/10/2020] +: i really have no ideas how to get around the sinkies' chao kuans

[3:42 pm, 28/10/2020] +: chaotah already ma

[3:42 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 😆

[3:43 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If die die need to consider these 3 factors for exemption, those who want to collect the token should instead go through an application portal, submit supporting documents (workplace got red zone, telco bill, screenshot of storage space stats, etc)

[3:43 pm, 28/10/2020] +: For those with smartphones I mean

If you don't have smartphones, let's say you green channel liao

[3:44 pm, 28/10/2020] +: "aiyah.... want to make it mandatory still so mafan....." 😝

[3:44 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Tbh gahmen screw up first part already so bobian

They want complain let them complain, no supporting documents, no talk lor very simple like NS one

[3:46 pm, 28/10/2020] +: really whatever garmen do people also will complain one lah. just pick one position and go already, don't care what the trolls say

[3:46 pm, 28/10/2020] +: https://www.facebook.com/CriticalSpectator/posts/3300838556690515 

the main role of TraceTogether is saving the... economy.

[3:47 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Or alternatively just put them in a position that they can't really protest to so must guai guai follow if they really want to have what they want lor

[3:47 pm, 28/10/2020] +: about COVID, I not sure the number of test done to army and BMT. cause they also stay in dorm type.

[3:48 pm, 28/10/2020] +: maybe the mistake in comms was pegging the TT to Phase 3. so people think "once we got token then we can faster go phase 3".

[3:48 pm, 28/10/2020] +: For this token distribution thing ah don't entertain grey areas liao, black is black, white is white

[3:48 pm, 28/10/2020] +: and who say that 🙊

[3:48 pm, 28/10/2020] +: but everyone wishes to be Christian Grey.... 🤭

[3:49 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Could be a general belief because if let's say everyone has TT/token, easier to manage then therefore leads to a faster result (aka Phase 3) I guess

[3:49 pm, 28/10/2020] +: because of the roadmap. it's only one of the factors among a whole host of others, but of course people only zoom in on the easiest part lah.

[3:49 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Bth I’m hoping for phase 3 before Christmas

[3:50 pm, 28/10/2020] +: But now with delays likely will be later

[3:50 pm, 28/10/2020] +: How come your Btw become Bth :3

[3:50 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Auto correct lol

[3:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Cos I bth more than btw :3

[3:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Your autocorrect from English to Singlish?! 😆

[3:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: goes to show that you use bth a lot more than btw! 🤣

[3:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk0041RDeLIymdS8ZY05knw1br_sM5w%3A1603871393364&ei=oSKZX6fvFc349QP_nZGABw&q=tracetogether+compulsory&oq=tracetogether+com&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAxgBMgoIABDJAxAUEIcCMgUIABDEAjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjoFCCEQoAE6EAgAELEDEIMBEMkDEBQQhwI6AggAUJceWJ02YIZIaABwAHgAgAFsiAHGApIBAzQuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=psy-ab

[3:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤭

[3:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The funny part is phase 3 has more measures than phase 2. Is it we are going phase 3 because situation has improved or only because we have more stringent measure then can go phase 3

[3:52 pm, 28/10/2020] +: so TT app/token is compulsory and mandatory?

[3:52 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I would say situation has improved but we need to transition to the next phase carefully if not kena backfire then CB part 2 die

[3:54 pm, 28/10/2020] +: that's why giving out by constituency

[3:54 pm, 28/10/2020] +: aiya activate the election officers la, give out by polling district la

[3:54 pm, 28/10/2020] +: all will be able to get one. lol

[3:56 pm, 28/10/2020] +: i think stock availability is the limiting factor...

[3:56 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Our situation have improved and we have more measures for phase 3 so it’s yes for both your question.

[3:57 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Which is a good limiting factor 

DON'T NEED, DON'T GET!!

[3:57 pm, 28/10/2020] +: but sheep are gonna get it anyway. so those left behind boh bian have to wait

[4:40 pm, 28/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 28 Oct]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed that there are no new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection. 

There are 7 imported cases who had all been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore. 

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh28octupdate

[6:17 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Timeline: How a power fault caused an hours-long disruption on three MRT lines on Oct 14

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/timeline-power-fault-train-disruption-oct-14-13394236

[6:18 pm, 28/10/2020] +: 🤦‍♂️ how it disrupted is really haiz

[6:20 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Failure to isolate at buno vista mrt station triggered the situation.

[6:22 pm, 28/10/2020] +: The train operator had said on Oct 15 that the disruption was caused by a breakdown in the insulation of a power cable along the Tuas West Extension, as well as an attempt to restore power to two MRT lines without first isolating the fault. 🤦‍♂️

[6:25 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Next chapter, what will the amount be fine for the mishap?

[6:31 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Some small fly to be punished and case closed.

[6:34 pm, 28/10/2020] +: always the kachang putih that gets thrown out the window

[6:35 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Thrown under the train in this case.

[6:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If it's equipment failure I wouldn't blame it totally on those who were working with the equipment

[6:36 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Besides, SMRT has a strong SAF culture 

And it takes a long time to change that

[6:38 pm, 28/10/2020] +: well, what to expect when they keep parachuting ex SAF people to the top right...?

[6:39 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Exact the lee

[6:39 pm, 28/10/2020] +: SAF not even like SAF liao hahahaha

[6:45 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Why is there an impression that the suspended personnel are junior staff ?

[6:45 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I heard SAF management style more advanced. They have  compulsory after actions reviews. My friend let SAF and regret because the company he work all Yes Sirs a plenty 🤣

[6:46 pm, 28/10/2020] +: My friend say I no yes man 😂

[6:48 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Easy to say. Boss say tomorrow don't need to come to work 🤣

[6:49 pm, 28/10/2020] +: because if dua liap enough, the name will come out already lor.. i guess lah

[6:49 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I wouldn't say junior, I would say insignificant - as long as your name not big enough, nobody cares who you are one

[6:50 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Say no to yes men!!

[6:50 pm, 28/10/2020] +: say yes to no men!

oh wait...... 🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆😆😆

[6:50 pm, 28/10/2020] +: equals to zero!!

[6:51 pm, 28/10/2020] +: If sormeone can make decision to switch one power to another .. these are not junior engineering  role .  No essential service organisations  would leave such decision to juniors .

[6:53 pm, 28/10/2020] +: To the higher-ups, they only want to do damage control while the root issue will never be solved until another major problem happens

[6:53 pm, 28/10/2020] +: It’s obvious that a technical decision was made and it is wrong .  Unfortunately the supervisor agreed to the wrong assessment  , so both required  to attend recertifications .

[6:54 pm, 28/10/2020] +: that's why it's the technician and his/her supervisor mah. so i don't think it's fresh-fresh, but probably won't be that senior/dualiap cos those will be in office blowing aircon and then point finger and call for root cause analysis when things go wrong.

[6:55 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I suspect that The root of the problem is due to SMRT don’t have good quality rail engineering staff at the moment .   SMRT has to improve this piece of essential skills

[6:56 pm, 28/10/2020] +: I'm definitely going with your conjecture

[6:57 pm, 28/10/2020] +: That someone can always say he made the decision based on what was presented to him.

[6:58 pm, 28/10/2020] +: And are we focusing too much on the HR side? What about the equipment then? Should maintenance have been done earlier rather than wait till it started to fail?

[6:59 pm, 28/10/2020] +: i mean, the initial issue at tuas ok lah, that one not their fault. it's the subsequent decision to pull the power from buona vista and reading the indicator wrongly which is an oof lah.

[7:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Ya the DP

[7:00 pm, 28/10/2020] +: Hi REACH Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Good Night!😴

Megan ☺

-----

REACH 157 - Tracetogether Token (SK)

26 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:50 am, 26/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 11 am to 7 pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. Thank you.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Megan 😊

REACH

[10:58 am, 26/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

What do you think of the Trace Together-only Safe Entry scheme, which will be mandatory at all public venues?

There is no need for Singaporeans to rush to collect the TraceTogether tokens, said Minister-in-charge of the Smart Nation Initiative Vivian Balakrishnan on Sunday (Oct 25).

The contact tracing devices can currently be collected at 38 community centres, but will be available at all 108 community centres by the end of next month. Dr Balakrishnan said that from Monday, Singaporeans are advised to collect their tokens from their own community clubs and use the Token Go Where website to see when the schedule for distribution would begin in their areas.

Dr Balakrishnan said: "I would also make the assurance that the implementation of the TraceTogether-only Safe Entry programme will not proceed until we make sure that everyone has access to either a token or the app and is comfortable using it."

The multi-ministry task force tackling Covid-19 on Tuesday (Oct 20), with TraceTogether-only SafeEntry to be rolled out progressively from this month, and that by the end of December, checking in with the TraceTogether app or token will be mandatory at all public venues in Singapore, including restaurants, workplaces, schools and shopping malls. 

What is TraceTogether-only SafeEntry?

TraceTogether-only SafeEntry is the only way members of the public can check in at a public venue by using the app or token.

Currently, other options for checking in with SafeEntry include scanning the SafeEntry QR code with your phone camera, or the SingPass mobile app, or the bar codes on your NRIC.

You will not need to do any of these once TraceTogether-only SafeEntry is implemented.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/what-do-i-need-to-know-about-compulsory-tracetogether-check-in-from-end-december

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/collect-tracetogether-tokens-at-nearest-cc-no-rush-necessary-vivian-balakrishnan

👉 https://token.gowhere.gov.sg

+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

----

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:00 am, 26/10/2020] +: It's a good move to ensure that everyone is "covered" 

But I wonder if those who already have the app should still go and collect the token anyway when it's more of a priority for those without the app?

Caleb

[11:01 am, 26/10/2020] +: optional lor

[11:01 am, 26/10/2020] +: if u still want to token, can still go collect

[11:01 am, 26/10/2020] +: *the

+ changed the group description. Click to view.

[11:03 am, 26/10/2020] +: https://token.gowhere.gov.sg/ need to link on the app too

[11:03 am, 26/10/2020] +: for ppl to read up on the mobile app

Rama

[11:03 am, 26/10/2020] +: App may be affected by isp network or phone battery low so physical token helps.

Berny

[11:04 am, 26/10/2020] +: I think it will be nice if it means making everyone collect and use the physical token instead of the app, although I know that it means moving backwards for the smart nation initiative, but there are bound to be some people who turn off their bluetooth when they are not required to show/scan.

[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

Workplace convenience, saving phone battery power among reasons for rush for TraceTogether tokens

Fabian Koh

PUBLISHED OCT 24, 2020, 7:12 PM SGT

The draining of smartphone batteries, convenience in the workplace and security concerns were among the reasons given by those who rushed to collect their TraceTogether tokens on Saturday (Oct 24).

Mr Rudi said that even though there is a TraceTogether smartphone app, he prefers not to use it as it drains his phone battery.

"I work as an IT engineer in a pharmaceutical setting. As I enter many labs and facilities, I can't bring my phone around all the time," he added.

" I also don't want to leave my phone's Bluetooth on all the time for security reasons."

Sales manager Ho Kai Peng, 37, who was there to collect seven tokens for her family, said: "Some of my friends have the app, but I worry that it's battery draining. I don't carry a power bank around with me."

----

[8:52 pm, 20/03/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

(1) If bluetooth don't need to do pairing to work - with exchange key - then it will be a big security loopholes.

(2) A hacker can just turn on his bluetooth, get 1m - 5m near you - and download a malware into your smartphone, do middleman attack - and steal all your data.

(3) This is precisely my security concern --- in turning the bluetooth wireless on.

(4) Even with pairing and security pin - I am already concern about its static key that can be easily hack.

[2:24 pm, 21/03/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

(1) Assessing the use of Tracetogether Mobil Apps - to help in contact tracing.

a. Concept very good - as it is a good productivity tool - that can facilitate MOH in contact tracing.

b. Mobile apps - security is deem sufficient as no personal details are downloaded or exchange between phone - only temp id that are securely stored in each handphone. Info. only released upon contact to Authorities only - and no lost of personal data to unknown parties.

c. The only problem is - this mobile apps use a communication technology (blue tooth security)that is security vulnerable - with no or very fragile security --- that allows hackers to hack any handphone quite easily.

d. Why does the mobile apps require "bluetooth" to facilitate the use of the mobile apps?

i. bluetooth distance is about 10m (unblock) or about 1 to 5 meters if many obstacles.

ii. also bluetooth within range (when turn on) will be able to detect any bluetooth devices within its smartphone (so any infected person with handphone bluetooth turn on) --- will be detected an download to the mobile apps.

iii. when the 2 person exceed the distance of 10 meters - the bluetooth signal drop -- and indicate the 2 person devices are no longer in close contact - so bluetooth is a good comms for contact tracing.

(2) But the problem is bluetooth security is a big concern.

a. Bluetooth use no security or very fragile security (static key with only a 6-5 pin key) - that can be easily hack by a man-in-the-middle attack.

b. Hacker once see a guy or gal turn on the Tracetogether mobile apps --- will know that he/she use bluetooth (without even need to turn on his devices to detect any bluetooth signal).

c. Hacker will simply download a malware to his "pair bluetooth" devices if no bluetooth security or after hacking a bluetooth 5-6 pin key --- will download a malware ( and then leave).

d. Each time the hackee do eCommerce transaction eg. do banking, buy or sell share, access his CPF, etc ---- the malware with keylogger - will capture the hackee id, password, the SMS OTP that drop into his handphone and pipe them to the hacker server --- who will then use hackee id, password and sms otp to access his banking, share, cpf ----- and transfer their money, sell their share, transfer out the cpf balances etc to the hacker account --- each time the hackee access the internet via 4G or secure wi-fi to do their digital transaction.

e. The above is what the hackee is preparing to lose - by "attracting bluetooth coronatrojan" into their handphone --- and hacker only need to infiltrate once --- but steal always --- without the hackee knowing.

Now then what is a more secured way to to Tracetogether mobile apps?

aka datang .....

-----

[6:14 pm, 14/06/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

1. There's no financial incentives to hack a Bluetooth token as there are no sensitive user bank credentials to be stolen.

2. Apps stored in the token is encrypted. Even if hack and stolen is not useful to the hackers.

3. No financial loss to public users.

4. That's why I support the Bluetooth token.

----

[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But people's preferences will also be taken into account, as some Singaporeans have given feedback that they prefer using the token to the app, said Dr Balakrishnan.

"I want to provide people with that option, because the key thing is participation - the overall participation in the TraceTogether programme," he said.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] +: Hahaha let's wait for the Bluetooth Monologue

[11:06 am, 26/10/2020] +: Lai liao

[11:08 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

WP calls for minimum wage 'right now' while PAP, PSP cite need for higher productivity: IPS forum

Grace Ho

Senior Political Correspondent

UPDATED OCT 23, 2020, 4:47 PM

Progress Singapore Party (PSP) assistant secretary-general, Mr Francis Yuen, said wages are just one part of overall business costs, and the key is to raise productivity and reduce over-reliance on foreign workers.

When asked if there is consensus in the Workers' Party on how soon should Singapore implement a minimum wage, Sengkang MP Louis Chua said the party is keen to do it "right now".

The WP does not see a minimum wage and Singapore's Progressive Wage Model (PWM) as diametrically opposed, he said.

The PWM - a framework where workers can earn higher salaries as they upgrade their skills - has been the subject of robust debate in Parliament.

The WP is pushing for full-time Singaporean workers to be paid a minimum of $1,300 a month.

Progress Singapore Party (PSP) assistant secretary-general, Mr Francis Yuen, said wages are just one part of overall business costs, and the key is to raise productivity and reduce over-reliance on foreign workers.

"It should not be a system where foreign workers are brought in because they are cheap."

-----

My comments: 

PAP and PSP talk more sense - because PWM is anchor on economic ground.

Both advocate the need to improve productivity before raising wages.

WP say raise wage right away, don't care about productivity.

If minimum wage is bulldoze through, there will be 3 consequences :-

a. Increase prices of all its products or services - with no corresponding increase in quantity or quality - and consumers will not buy - business suffer.

b. Fire local workers - and employ foreign workers.

c. If business cost increase, but no increase in business profit - either reduce local staff, employ foreign workers or fold up.

Now I have more respect for PSP - who throw away partisan thinking by supporting PAP's reasoning in dropping minimum wages but implementing PWM - by embracing ideas that are sound and genuinely help Singaporeans and Singapore.

[11:08 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

-----

Research done by :-

IZA World of Labor

Evidence based Policy Making

Joseph J. Sabia

San Diego State University, USA, and IZA, Germany

Proponents of minimum wage increases have argued that

such hikes can serve as an engine of economic growth

and assist low-skilled individuals during downturns in the

business cycle. 

However, a *review of the literature provides

little empirical support for these claims*. 

*Minimum wage increases redistribute gross domestic product away

from lower-skilled industries and toward higher-skilled

industries and are largely ineffective in assisting the poor

during both peaks and troughs in the business cycle*.

*Minimum wage-induced reductions in employment are

found to be larger during economic recessions*.

Cons - Minimum Wage

- Increases to the minimum wage redistribute the

composition of industry-specific productivity in

ways that harm some low-skilled workers rather

than produce net economic growth.

- Minimum wage increases reduce employment

more for less-skilled individuals during times

of macroeconomic recessions as compared to

expansions.

- Minimum wages are not well targeted to poor or

near-poor individuals across the business cycle.

- Minimum wage increases are ineffective at

reducing poverty during both business cycle peaks

and troughs.

[11:08 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Conclusion :-

Government, Union (compromising worker leaders representing workers) and Business (include all industry sectors) - Tripartite Alliance - shoot down "Minimum Wages" and adopt "Progressive Wage Model" (PWM) - by raising workers' productivities and then raise their wages. (not raise the minimum wages - with no corresponding increase in productivities).

This wage policy will go a long way to solidify Singapore business and labor competitiveness vis-a-vis the World Labour market.

This will ensure that investors will continue to invest in Singapore, business can continue to survive and thrive, Singaporean workers can improve their productivity and at the same time fetch higher salaries.

[11:10 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

WP calls for minimum wage 'right now' while PAP, PSP cite need for higher productivity: IPS forum

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/wp-calls-for-minimum-wage-right-now-while-pap-psp-cite-need-for-higher

Ken

[11:10 am, 26/10/2020] +: Min wage have to come with productivity if not.. higher wage with same productivity 🤦‍♂️

Caleb

[11:11 am, 26/10/2020] +: Have u talked to the team in gov tech on ur concern?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:12 am, 26/10/2020] +: Hahaha wait for Desmond to spawn 😂

[11:13 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is the most important gist of why PWM is better than minimum wage.

It is our National competitiveness.

We have to go by objective, transparent based policy decision making.

Not partisan based politics.

[11:14 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This tracetogether token Vs tracetogether apps is the most talk about topics.

That's why tracetogether token is recommended.

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-king-covid-19-state-of-emergency-13350514                                                                                              King disallow PM Muhiyiddin from declaring state of emergency.

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I see how Trump cause havoc to US and the world.

I also see how Malaysia politics degraded into a state that now become a government of turmoil and changing government like changing clothes.

I just hope that Singapore will not end up like that.

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hopefully Singapore politics will not end up like Malaysia.

Else the whole country will suffer.

Caleb

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: there is a group chat in telegram by govtech

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: u can post ur concerns there

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: search for: TraceTogether

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Actually, they are all very intelligent e.g. To use emergency law to protect themselves. Why not put their minds for larger good?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:15 am, 26/10/2020] +: and not spam here hah

[11:16 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Actually PM Muhyiddin declaration of emergency measures is a very smart move.

Political moves are forbidden, parliament are suspended, oppositions cannot move motion to topple the government, election is postponed.

Yes if politicians can work together for the larger good - country will not have so much headache.

Look at trump, republicans and democrats - alot of infighting.

Look at Malaysia politics - all self interest.

That's why I worry about Singapore with more fractious groups coming out.

Is Singaporen voters wise enough not to follow the footsteps of Malaysia, US and so many other countries?

I don't know.

Probably not in our generation times, but I worry for our children and grandchildren.

REACH

[11:17 am, 26/10/2020] +: Singapore to import electricity from Malaysia under two-year trial

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-import-electricity-malaysia-two-year-trial-energy-13373336

Caleb

[11:17 am, 26/10/2020] +: Wow. If they sudenly cut off how

[11:17 am, 26/10/2020] +: Am concern on national securty

[11:18 am, 26/10/2020] +: SAF will be very busy

[11:18 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My handphone run out of space to install telegram.

It is ok, I have registered volume of posting in REACH apps here.

Govtech have noted my comments - hence the government is now issuing tracetogether token - which is safer.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:18 am, 26/10/2020] +: Hahaha so true but we'll have our backup plans lah we all know Malaysia not that friendLEE one

Caleb

[11:21 am, 26/10/2020] +: u can submit your concen here too, for them to reply u directly https://support.tracetogether.gov.sg/hc/en-sg/requests/new

[11:21 am, 26/10/2020] +: govtech are very responsive to feedback so far my experience with them

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:22 am, 26/10/2020] +: While I like the idea of having a fallback such as a physical token, having too many people who don't actually need it and then they start misplacing it will be troublesome 

I'd rather that we only have the same few groups to have it who don't readily have access to the app due to whatever reasons, makes the admin load lighter than if say everyone was to have it when they don't actually need to have it.

[11:22 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No problem I have good contact in Govtech.

They have responded.

Caleb

[11:23 am, 26/10/2020] +: and their response is? use the token?

[11:23 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEJu3yT-e1raHvZob1EPPcGsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMOySxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

China digital yuan (DCEP - digital currency electronic payment) - leave HK behind.

Singapore as yuan currency exchange got to take note of the development - and see how Singapore can integrate with China digital yuan to maintain our financial hub as yuan currency exchange - and not be left behind.

[11:23 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://blockchain.news/news/alibaba-founder-china-richest-man-jack-ma-digital-currency-redefine-money

[11:24 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I believe Singapore earn alot as financial hub - offering currency exchange and earn from:-

1. Commission 

2. Currency exchange (currency fluctuations)

Eg. 1% earning of $100 billion - our banks earn $1 billion.

Thus we must be nimble and strategic to keep our currency exchange hub.

Ken

[11:25 am, 26/10/2020] +: Lol the game of throne really is killing Malaysia

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:26 am, 26/10/2020] +: OMG What a name 

Honestly ah in this day and age a monarchy doesn't work, who cares about a King actually?

Ken

[11:26 am, 26/10/2020] +: But the king help them make it official 🤣

[11:27 am, 26/10/2020] +: Need a neutral party

[11:27 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

They suggest 2 options:-

1. Use tracetogether apps

2. Use tracetogether token.

If we aren't comfortable with 1 choose 2.

Ken

[11:27 am, 26/10/2020] +: If not they would have kick them out long ago... is to keep the game balance

[11:28 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why, my fear is - will Singapore politics end up like Malaysia or US?

[11:28 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

One day..….?

Ben

[11:29 am, 26/10/2020] +: People are not clear why location needs to be tracked through scanning the code. Proximity based tracking is fine as it doesn't record location.

Ken

[11:29 am, 26/10/2020] +: Possible.. people want more say in things to be more fair

REACH

[11:29 am, 26/10/2020] +: Entrepreneurs try to find opportunity amid the COVID-19 uncertainty

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/covid-19-uncertainty-entrepreneurship-singapore-start-ups-13339650

Alvin

[11:30 am, 26/10/2020] +: It’s good but only if there are clear steps and options made available to the general public.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:30 am, 26/10/2020] +: It is still pretty inefficient even with both SE and TT. If let's say some big area kena, how we know which part exactly? End up whole big area must tio quarantine

[11:30 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because virus can be left behind in a location eg. Lift, toilet, food court etc and need to be disinfected.

Ben

[11:31 am, 26/10/2020] +: I assume toilet are cleaned everyday... and there is no SE on most toilets

Alvin

[11:31 am, 26/10/2020] +: The current issue is tokens are high sought after, so the roll outs must continue until everyone has them before implementing the TT in shopping malls etc

[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But end up with too many fracture parties and factions like Malaysia or partisan politics like US - and the whole country and people suffer.

Singapore is too small and have no strategic space and depth for such politics.

We will suffer tremendously if one day we end up like Malaysia or US.

Ben

[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: By the time a person tests positive,  and the TT is reviewed and all the locations recorded several days will be gone. Is the plan to contact those locations and close them all for several days for cleaning to talk place?

Alvin

[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: There will also be the possibility that ppl might lost their tokens in public places.

[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: So the tracing might not be accurate

Ben

[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: If so, OK, its just not clear what the purpose is since we are all using TT anyway.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:33 am, 26/10/2020] +: Exactly the point I mentioned 

Then lagi effort just to do the replacement, etc

Ben

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: I guess the system is flawed but better than nothing.

Ken

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: 🤷🏻‍♂️ we will not know.. let the people decide you can decide also just vote.

Alvin

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: The problem is ppl might use their handphone TT app after losing their token

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: I'm surprised ST isn't being updated as frequently as TT, is gahmen ruling in favour of TT then?

Alvin

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: End up token is tracing and tt app also tracing

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: Going to have headache

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: So I insist on my point, no token if you already have the app

Caleb

[11:34 am, 26/10/2020] +: updated? as in?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: If not become like some lost sonar beacon down there beeping forever

Alvin

[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: We become quantum particle exist in two places at the same time

[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: Lol

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:35 am, 26/10/2020] +: When unobserved hah the beauty of unknown science

Caleb

[11:36 am, 26/10/2020] +: when u lost the token, call them then will take take note lor

[11:36 am, 26/10/2020] +: then when u replace, is all backend records during contact tracing ma

Rama

[11:36 am, 26/10/2020] +: Unlikely we will go the route of our northern neighbours or america.

[11:38 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I am not so sure, as can see how voters swing in recent election.

I am not feeling comfortable.

Rama

[11:40 am, 26/10/2020] +: The laws here gives stability to investors, citizens and foreigners.

[11:41 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hopefully Singaporean voters are wise enough to vote correctly and not end up like Malaysia or US.

Rama

[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: Agree

Berny

[11:41 am, 26/10/2020] +: let's not derail to politics... shall we?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:41 am, 26/10/2020] +: Ya lor later must grind the rail ._.

[11:42 am, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3106874/hong-kong-battling-potentially-deadly-superbug?utm_content=article&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR24K3w9Y26liBzlYtTedsUqre6larYRLwMCQc54I1mZGPH7sNHEx54UHK0#Echobox=1603456701

Berny

[11:42 am, 26/10/2020] +: then SMRT need to OT overnight till early morning to repair and replace the rail liao

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: Imagine a full day without train service 😱

Berny

[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: I'm fine with that, good excuse to show up late for work

Caleb

[11:43 am, 26/10/2020] +: just WFH

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:44 am, 26/10/2020] +: What if we do move into a 15-minute city idea where your workplace will be some co-working area and not a centralised office building?

Berny

[11:44 am, 26/10/2020] +: my job nature doesn't allow that, i'm a site staff not hq staff

[11:45 am, 26/10/2020] +: that won't happen to me, I take care of condo, which are scattered all over the island

Caleb

[11:45 am, 26/10/2020] +: I don't condo-ne!!

Rama

[11:49 am, 26/10/2020] +: 😅😂🤣

[11:51 am, 26/10/2020] +: The only monarchy i have respect for is the late king of Thailand.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:53 am, 26/10/2020] +: Speaking of Thailand, when we look around us, we're the only stable country right now 

Indonesia has its protests against what omnibus bill, Thailand also some sort of political turmoil 

Malaysia is no need say anything you and I also know one

REACH

[11:53 am, 26/10/2020] +: Dear contributors, please continue to provide your views and stick to today's topic, thanks! :)

Rama

[11:54 am, 26/10/2020] +: That was fast.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[11:54 am, 26/10/2020] +: I think enough has been said already

WilsonLeong 

[11:54 am, 26/10/2020] +: Just go to near your place to collect it

Rama

[11:55 am, 26/10/2020] +: Check for the nearest collection point as the locations are added.

[11:56 am, 26/10/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/10/submit-nmp-nomination/

Jeffery

[11:57 am, 26/10/2020] +: Good scheme to force people to use

REACH

[12:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Smooth start to Singapore's first pre-event Covid-19 screening

The opening of Singapore International Energy Week (SIEW) 2020 on Monday (Oct 26) saw the first ever pre-event Covid-19 swabbing taking place.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/smooth-start-to-singapores-first-pre-event-covid-19-screening

Dan

[1:12 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I have collected my device on Sat, I have been to several public places on Sun. Not one allows the use of the tag for safe entry. All required me to scan QR code. I think public places like the malls need to expedite the use of the tags, before public finds it redundant and cumbersome to bring it out.

Caleb

[1:14 pm, 26/10/2020] +: https://support.safeentry.gov.sg/hc/en-us/articles/900002740723

Rama

[1:15 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes

Berny

[1:22 pm, 26/10/2020] +: End of the day, we cannot totally eliminate the use of safe entry, certain area just doesnt have the budget for a new laptop and/or scanner

[1:23 pm, 26/10/2020] +: eg. condo and maybe industrial estates or some smaller shops

[1:24 pm, 26/10/2020] +: having said that, it is still good to make people bring along their token/app when they go out because the name says it all, "trace together"

Rama

[1:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I am all for it.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I think the coverage is there already, problem is the acceptance on the other side as Dan mentioned

Alvin

[1:39 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Can’t bro cos not everyone collected. Unless they allow token scanning, QR code and NRIC scanning.

[1:39 pm, 26/10/2020] +: That’s a lot of methods to scan liao

[2:09 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

'We're not going to control the pandemic', says White House chief of staff as US COVID-19 cases spike

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/united-states-covid-19-pandemic-control-mark-meadows-13373810                                                                                Statement of the year - from Trump Administration.

CQ

[2:11 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yah. There's no 2nd wave if you're not even past the first wave.

[2:12 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Total failure.

Just give up and surrender.

----

[2:15 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why good government very important.

CQ

[2:15 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Failure is for those who have tried. If you don't try, you can't be said to have failed.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:16 pm, 26/10/2020] +: LMAO

[2:17 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well Trump never tried.

[2:17 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

It's always others fault.

Never his fault.

CQ

[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yah, and that's why he's never failed.

Rama

[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Utter flabbergasted!

[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hahahaha.

Well 9 more days, we shall see.

Rama

[2:18 pm, 26/10/2020] +: His trademark for his presidency!

[2:19 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hahahaha.

Luckily we don't have such government.

Rama

[2:20 pm, 26/10/2020] +: We never will!

[2:21 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hope so....,

Rama

[2:28 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I see Lim Tean/Kenneth Jeyaretnam as somewhat similar to dotard!

Berny

[2:30 pm, 26/10/2020] +: This sentence is very dangerous

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:31 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Dangerous but true

Alvin

[2:31 pm, 26/10/2020] +: 🤭

Berny

[2:31 pm, 26/10/2020] +: subjective la, I think the best way is not to put in any names

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:32 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Sorry ah I can't agree with you, who the hell forms a party and then during broadcast only he speaks?

Berny

[2:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I don't know, I never watch the broadcast 🤭

Rama

[2:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Now you know lor

RP different case lah if Kenneth tio SHN I won't say much but pfffft PV is not PV, is Lim Tean Party 🥳 😂

[2:35 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Malaysia's PM faces calls to quit after failed bid for emergency rule

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-pm-muhyiddin-faces-calls-quit-emergency-rule-covid-19-13374324

[2:37 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Unstable government - goodness how to tackle covid and the economy.

Feel very sad for Malaysia.

Rama

[2:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes

Alvin

[2:45 pm, 26/10/2020] +: 😴

REACH

[4:13 pm, 26/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 26 Oct]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed 1 new case of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection.

Based on investigations so far, the case resides in a dormitory and there are no cases in the community. 

There are 2 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore. In total, there are 3 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore today.

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh26octupdate

Caleb

[4:14 pm, 26/10/2020] +: on TT-only SE, can I clarify is it all public venues by end of year or selected public venues?

[4:14 pm, 26/10/2020] +: cause different news state different

Rama

[4:19 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Shock over comment that low-wage workers “only need to worry about food and death” 

 https://theindependent.sg/shock-over-comment-that-low-wage-workers-only-need-to-worry-about-food-and-death/

[4:19 pm, 26/10/2020] +: 😨😱

Berny

[4:21 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Are we ready for inflation? If yes, then go for minimum wage

[4:22 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And we must remember, with inflation, the $1,300 will become smaller and we are back to square 1

[4:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And can someone enlighten me, how can a 1 room rental flat incur $120 utility bill per month?

Ken

[4:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Lol

[4:25 pm, 26/10/2020] +: You saw that too

Berny

[4:26 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Thats the average consumption of a typical 3-4 room flat with aircon leh

Ken

[4:26 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Rental should be around $20 to $30 max

Berny

[4:26 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And the subsidy should be quite good

Alvin

[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Where?

Berny

[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Good as in frequent

Anne

[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Then we’ll see the CPF MSS moving target again.

Berny

[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: In the article, middle part where theres a breakdown

Ken

[4:27 pm, 26/10/2020] +: As in $120 a bit too high

Alvin

[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Electricity and conservancy charges maybe possible

[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Include waste disposal and water

Berny

[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Also, that article did not state the financial assistance provided, eg. Sso, msf or cdwf or comcare

Caleb

[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: public transport need $100

[4:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: thought should have subsidy PT

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:30 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Idk about the subsidy but $50 voucher is not enough for me that's for sure

Caleb

[4:30 pm, 26/10/2020] +: should be on workfare income ma

Anne

[4:32 pm, 26/10/2020] +: $100 per month for medical. Hmm...

Ken

[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Current rate

[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: What kind of subsidies they get roughly

Ken

[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: To qualify

Berny

[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Last para got my attention

Ken

[4:33 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Don’t add up $100 I think

Berny

[4:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: If they can potluck, why not make it a norm?

Ken

[4:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: The trap comes when people are at the borderline won’t want to stop getting help and if they earn more they get less help

Berny

[4:34 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Instead of waiting till no money

[4:35 pm, 26/10/2020] +: And her transport cost is high

[4:36 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Every month i spend slightly below $100 from jurong to bukit timah

Ken

[4:36 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Transport reasonable if they work far

[4:37 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Mine transport to work is $3 plus daily..

Berny

[4:37 pm, 26/10/2020] +: With the low income (sorry, I forgot the name of the scheme) concession card?

Ken

[4:37 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Assume only goes to work and don’t travel anywhere else

Berny

[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: They get cheaper ride though

Ken

[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: The one I posted lor

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Workfare?

Berny

[4:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Ahh yes

Rama

[4:42 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Senior citizens concession card. Sgd0.42 Monday to Friday before 0745.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:42 pm, 26/10/2020] +: If can avoid MRT rides, you will be able to save more

Alvin

[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Before 7.30am

Rama

[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Sgd 0.92 otherwise irregardless of distance.

Alvin

[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: But likely it’s monthly concession

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: This one also increased in price, last time still affordable for myself, now $128 out of the question

Alvin

[4:44 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Last time was $120 right?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:45 pm, 26/10/2020] +: I believe so

[4:48 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Though last time maybe because my card is NSF concession, I only had to pay $85

Ken

[4:49 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Inflation 😅

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:51 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Anyways it has to do with your trip patterns a lot 

So when you travel less, be it $85, $120 or $128, you won't actually need it

[5:10 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Suggest the following, rather than tamper with minimum wage:-

1. Govt co-subsidies food voucher, get big organisation to participate and get food vendors to sell at cost with slight profit for the 32,000 low income workers.

2. Ramp up the implementation of PWM with pace.

3. Until these groups of low income people have upgraded through PWM - continue to maintain them with this scheme.

4. Don't bulldoze policy that is wrong for the sake of speed.

Use mitigation measures to cushion the affected people, but ramp up speed with PWM.

[5:13 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Doing things wrong to correct a wrong won't make things right.

Do the right things, but if not able to get it up fast, use mitigation measures to cushion the immediate impact - while speeding up what is the right things to do.

[5:14 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Use objective, transparent, evidence based for policy decision making.

Don't rush with wrong policy just for the sake of speed.

[5:31 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Rushing wrong policy with speed - become a train wreck.

Rama

[5:38 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Damage control will be costly

anfan

[5:43 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Will necessary households exempt GST help?

Berny

[5:51 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Very hard to implement, how can a grocery store (eg. Mama shop) "remove gst" from their pricing?  Another issue will be the verification part

anfan

[5:52 pm, 26/10/2020] +: That is true

Rama

[5:52 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Not likely

Jimmy Chew

[6:00 pm, 26/10/2020] +: like the PMD

Rama

[6:02 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes

Caleb

[6:09 pm, 26/10/2020] +: There is GST Voucher given

[6:25 pm, 26/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

📢 Topic 📢

What do you think of the Trace Together-only Safe Entry scheme, which will be mandatory at all public venues?

My close friend comments:-

It is a necessary move. if not,  how do we get the population to carry safe entry token or enable safe entry app? Unlike wearing masks, it is not easy to spot any persons not using safe entry. And if we don't have a critical mass, when there s an outbreak, we will be slow in detection

Rama

[6:29 pm, 26/10/2020] +: Yes

==========