09 Jun 2020 (12pm - 8pm)
REACH
REACH
[6:00 pm, 09/06/2020] : Dear contributors,
Welcome back! Our chat will be open from 6pm to 10pm today.
Please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group.
Minister Lawrence Wong will deliver the second National Broadcast this evening on the theme, "Living with COVID-19" at the following times:
7.30pm – English Broadcast (CNA)
8.30pm – Malay Broadcast (Suria)
8.30pm – English broadcast with sign language interpretation (Channel 5)
9.00pm – Tamil broadcast (Vasantham)
9.30pm – Mandarin broadcast (Channel 8)
We will be posting some questions on the National Broadcast after the speech.
[6:10 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:-
My closed friends contribution :-
Business health safety risk :-
Rank by Michigan public health. 1 being least risky, 10 most risky in spreading covid
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/06/from-hair-salons-to-gyms-experts-rank-36-activities-by-coronavirus-risk-level.html
Detroit ranking for sports
https://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/2020/06/05/heres-how-25-sports-have-been-divided-into-high-moderate-low-covid-19-risk-categories/
1. As this covid-19 is unprecedented and no Countries in the World has experience in tackling this virus pandemic - the above study conducted by Michigan (on business health safety risk) and Detriot on sports --- can help to provide us useful information to form a baseline to help us to fine tune our approach and safety measures to safeguard against the virus infection - while we open up our Economy.
Ken
[6:11 pm, 09/06/2020] : Oh man buffet gonna be a thing of the past 😭
Ben
[6:12 pm, 09/06/2020] : Thanks for sharing! Useful.
[6:12 pm, 09/06/2020] : But badminton could return sooner. Should rate 1, like tennis:)
[6:13 pm, 09/06/2020] : Doctor waiting room is debatable. 🤔
CQ
[6:22 pm, 09/06/2020] : Yah, i thought the risk would've been higher!
[6:14 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is the study make by US Michigan who don't play badminton.
Our government need to do our own study to adjust and come out with measures to mitigate.
CQ
[6:25 pm, 09/06/2020] : The risk for offices depends on the seating arrangement. The risk would be higher for those in open concept spaces than those where there are individual rooms.
XaniceAfcai
[6:26 pm, 09/06/2020] : I wonder will or how hair salon will sanitise the scissor n comb after each hair cut..
Rama
[6:26 pm, 09/06/2020] : Good question!
CQ
[6:28 pm, 09/06/2020] : Some places do, like Quick Cuts has a little disinfectant box and they use disposable stuff. But not sure about the rest... I mean, I haven't seen my stylists wipe down.......... 🤔
[6:29 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
My barber don't.
That's why I feedback in REACH that some barber don't disinfect after every customer.
Rama
[6:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : Normal barber shops are worrying.
CQ
[6:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : Can bring our own sanitiser spritz next time! :p
Ken
[6:30 pm, 09/06/2020] : 🤣🤣 might as well spray down the barber
Rama
[6:30 pm, 09/06/2020] : Yeah!
[6:30 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
To sanitize the barber's tool?
Hahahaha
Ken
[6:30 pm, 09/06/2020] : If you guys know how we do sterilization of surface in a virus lab, those things they do outside really just for show let you guys feel good
CQ
[6:31 pm, 09/06/2020] : https://youtu.be/pyelx99_zFs
Cut hair like dis!! 🤣
Ken
[6:31 pm, 09/06/2020] : Better than nothing attitude don’t really works. 😅 either you do or you don’t. Half way really don’t help much just waste resource only
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:31 pm, 09/06/2020] : That's the point, reassuring people is key
They don't want to be safe, they want to feel safe so let them have it
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Ron Ho
[6:08 pm, 09/06/2020] : Misunderstanding Singapore
https://thebulwark.com/misunderstanding-singapore/?fbclid=IwAR0F3x3Xs9Mewth25h_GJGKAv76yklyLT-qqKFNFHHFAXM0wpjvUJuPambM
Ben
[6:03 pm, 09/06/2020] : And good news on opening up the airways, at least a little bit. This all helps with the narrative that Singapore will be safe and open for business. https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/singapore-airlines-has-first-passenger-flight-return-new-zealand-after-lockdown
[6:05 pm, 09/06/2020] : We should also shift the narrative from having a high number of Covid cases due to cramped overcrowding to being a result of effective and efficient testing programmes.
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Anne
[6:13 pm, 09/06/2020] : Trump may be onto something again—this time with UV light and disinfectant.
(The first was HCQ—he probably already knew the study against it was fake, even though 2 leading medical journals published it)
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-developing-coronavirus-treatment-that-disinfects-body-uv-light-inside-1508350
Ken
[6:14 pm, 09/06/2020] : 😅 anything that can kill virus can kill human. Oh well Trump just reducing his supporters, let him be
Anne
[6:15 pm, 09/06/2020] : WHO is seriously messed up. They like to tell the public one thing and behind closed doors another.
(This is the second time in recent months I’ve heard of them lying. The first time was even more scandalous).
https://apnews.com/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae
Blue and White Flag Guy
[6:15 pm, 09/06/2020] : Did he Garfunkle himself?
Ken
[6:27 pm, 09/06/2020] : Haha 🤣
Even if they do, how sure you are they are using the right UV? You know the difference between UV-A,B and C?
Anne
[6:28 pm, 09/06/2020] : Pasar malam drug (HCQ+zinc) and designer drug (Remdesivir) face off! Who will win?
A study against the pasar malam drug HCQ was recently exposed as fake.
The unbelievable part is that this fake study was actually published in 2 leading medical journals The Lancet and the NEJM. Makes you wonder how many fake studies are there in these 2 prestigious journals and whether our “local experts” read them like religious texts.
Is this the work of Big Pharma trying to block off patient access to cheapie and effective drug?
Remdesivir, the wonder drug touted by experts to cure Covid-19, was found to have only small benefit in large trial.
Trump has placed his bet on the pasar malam drug. I wonder which drug did our “local experts” place their bets on?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-01/gilead-drug-has-only-modest-benefit-in-large-trial-shares-fall
Ken
[6:28 pm, 09/06/2020] : Do for show one.... really public how many people really know how a UV light works
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[7:18 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I read with concern about this guy petition.
He got his technical facts wrong and misguided people into signing this petition on the use of tracetogether token.
YT
[7:20 pm, 09/06/2020] : Maybe the government can POFMA him! 😉
Min
[7:23 pm, 09/06/2020] : Definitely not. He and over 30k+ people raised their own privacy concerns and as citizens, these concerns are equally valid and needs to be addressed reasonable.
[7:23 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Pofma him is one viable option - to correct his wrong facts.
But not sure how the public take it.
Open forum like yahoo news forum has overwhelming negative response based on his misleading facts written in his petition.
Min
[7:23 pm, 09/06/2020] : Even as a joke I don't see the humour.
[7:25 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If his concern about privacy is based on correct fact - then I am not concerned.
But his argument about breaching of privacy is based on inaccurate technical facts.
Min
[7:27 pm, 09/06/2020] : His argument runs on hyperboles that's for sure, but we cannot have the attitude of oppressing and suppressing inaccuracies, rather address and adjustments and questioning why in the first place were there such extreme concerns? And from nearly 40k people.
[7:27 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Skip to main content
Singapore says 'No' to wearable devices for Covid-19 contact tracing
Wilson Low started this petition to Singapore Government
The Government of the Republic of Singapore proposes that wearable devices be adopted for use by the general population in near-future efforts to reliably achieve contact tracing of persons that have recently come into contact with a Covid-19 infected person.
Minister-in-charge of the Smart Nation initiative, Vivian Balakrishnan, announced the proposal on June 5. He cited poor inter-operability of the existing Trace Together smartphone app across various brands of smartphones as well as the Government's subsequent non-compulsory usage stance as reasons for developing a wearable device.
Such a device, if proven to be successful in trials - and subsequently made available to everyone - would allow contact tracers to locate a person's whereabouts based on their proximity to other persons' phones, cell towers, or potentially their wearable devices themselves.
This will be done regardless of whether the person has a phone or not; regardless whether their phone is switched off or on; whether that person is within reception of a cell tower or not; and regardless whether their phone has wifi or Bluetooth switched off or on.
The only thing that stops this device from potentially being allowed to track citizens' movements 24/7 are: if the wearable device runs out of power; if a counter-measure device that broadcasts a jamming signal masking the device's whereabouts; or if the person chooses to live 'off the grid' in total isolation, away from others and outside of any smartphone/device effective range.
All that is stopping the Singapore Government from becoming a surveillance state is the advent and mandating the compulsory usage of such a wearable device. What comes next would be laws that state these devices must not be turned off/remain on a person at all times - thus sealing our fate as a police state.
Thus, we reject the development of this contact tracing device. We view its advent and subsequent implementation with great suspicion and indignation. The claims that such a device be implemented 'for the greater good' and for 'the safety and protection of all Singaporeans' are false and baseless. According to media reports, the non-successful adoption of the Trace Together app can be superceded by the next step that state-sanctioned technological advancements can offer: and this is it.
The Government looks to the Covid-19 pandemic as the perfect excuse to realise what it has always envisioned for us - this country's populace: to surveil us with impunity, to track us without any technological inhibitions, and maintain a form of movement monitoring on each of us at all times and places. And to do so by decreeing it compulsory for all law-abiding persons to become 'recipients'.
We - as free, independent, and lawful members of the public of Singapore - condemn the device's implementation as blatant infringements upon our rights to privacy, personal space, and freedom of movement. We reject the notion that the non-efficacy of the Trace Together initiative be superceded by a regime that could potentially require all members of the public (regardless of their age, susceptibility to disease, or health status) to give up these rights under fear - not of infection from Covid-19 - but of prosecution by the state.
[7:28 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is what he has written which has many inaccuracies.
Min
[7:27 pm, 09/06/2020] : Does this say something about our style of governance? Global fears? etc.
Min
[7:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : yes but read my comments, its not about how much upon 100 his petition is based on accuracy, its about what leads to this fear and what concerns they ultimately have and address it well in a way that reaches them.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[7:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : Yesterday we talk about Wilson now then you talk about him? 🤣
Min
[7:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : in the end the gov tends to do what they think is right anyways.
Rama
[7:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : Y9
Min
[7:29 pm, 09/06/2020] : who are you addressing?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[7:32 pm, 09/06/2020] : In times like these, everyone wants to stand out as the expert or spokesperson, Wilson Low doesn't seem to be an exception
[7:33 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Pofma him is not to suppress what he say.
But to correct all his inaccuracies - in which he had misled so many people has sign the petition based on his inaccurate facts.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[7:34 pm, 09/06/2020] : If we want to talk POFMA, why don't gahmen go hunt down those who start spreading fake news? Only a few charged, what about the rest? Can lari?
[7:36 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
What he has done will not help to contain and fight the virus infections - but will impact people's lives and cause negative impact on the economy.
Ben
[7:45 pm, 09/06/2020] : Yes - it's not censorship. It's about fact-checking and providing accurate information to avoid misleading people.
[7:46 pm, 09/06/2020] : Maybe time for Gov to start sending a clear message of what the Dongle does and doesn't do.
[7:46 pm, 09/06/2020] : Or maybe the message needs to come from a variety of sources so gaining trust
[7:46 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If government is able to point out all the incorrect facts in his petition - this will means all those who sign the petition fall apart.
Rama
[7:50 pm, 09/06/2020] : Yes
Rama
[7:50 pm, 09/06/2020] : Exactly
Rama
[7:50 pm, 09/06/2020] : He needs to be corrected!
Rama
[7:51 pm, 09/06/2020] : Agree
Blue and White Flag Guy
[7:51 pm, 09/06/2020] : Can send undisciplined Singaporeans for "re-education"?
Ron Ho
[7:58 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
But what if it is using wrong facts?
And then misled others based on the incorrect facts?
Stanley
[8:01 pm, 09/06/2020] How do you know technically that there is no infringement on privacy
Are you the producer of the device
[8:04 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/covid-19-contact-tracing-device-will-not-be-an-electronic-tag-to-be-rolled-out-in-june
Read this and compare to what is written by that man - and see for yourself is he technically correct.
I am too lazy to do a point by point rebuttal.
Ron Ho
[8:58 pm, 09/06/2020] : Use private channel. No need to go public or use social media.
[9:02 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If he used the correct channel, even if he is wrong in fact, people can discuss with him and correct him.
And when discussion is anchor on correct facts, people can respect his differing views if it impact him.
But now he misled others in a public petition using wrong facts.
Then if he is not corrected, people will assume what he say is correct even though his facts is wrong.
Ron Ho
[9:09 pm, 09/06/2020] : If a person with incorrect information creates a public petition, that person could be damaging. And should be reined in and corrected.
[9:11 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is my point.
If his facts is correct and cause genuine concern - then no one will question him.
But what he say in the message is inaccurate and people responded based on his inaccuracies.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[8:05 pm, 09/06/2020] : Can I just add something? You're criticizing someone who's doing exactly what you do, isn't that a tad... ironic?
[8:06 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Let the authority do the fact check and corrections.
[8:08 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I say things with fact.
I don't do petition based on wrong facts.
And I don't misled others to join me in petition.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[8:08 pm, 09/06/2020] : Doesn't make you less like people that are like him though
[8:11 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
You also notice that I won't waste time in frivolous quarell.
Blue and White Flag Guy
[8:13 pm, 09/06/2020] : After being in this group with you for so long, most of us know your character so we know the line
And I respect you for respecting the line of expertise when coming to PT issues
I'm sure we can all be cordial and courteous so hope you do so to others too :)
[8:14 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
I respect everyone as equal.
I only deal with issues and not about people.
Desmond Koh
[8:41 pm, 09/06/2020] : eh chill eh chill....
Blue and White Flag Guy
[8:47 pm, 09/06/2020] : Haha funny you appear leh, was referring to you actually
You poor thing lah, always kena pew pew 😳
Desmond Koh
[8:47 pm, 09/06/2020] : we all agree that, contact tracing is required...
how to strike a balance between privacy and the greater well being is the key...
I still stand by the thinking that how Korea, Taiwan, China do their contact tracing is down right smack down without any privacy catered...
There is no right or wrong in a petition while the person's understanding of the token may not be fully accurate thats is why Vivian came out to explain...
Do note that the petition is created on premise of a misunderstanding on how contact tracing app work..
Desmond Koh
[8:48 pm, 09/06/2020] : i know u r talking about me, so i need to come out to defuse :)
Alvin
[8:49 pm, 09/06/2020] : govtech and other gov ministries are doing a good job don't worry
[8:49 pm, 09/06/2020] : the majority of public is supportive of the increased measures
Blue and White Flag Guy
[8:50 pm, 09/06/2020] : Glad we're on the same wavelength leh bro if he can respect me for PT, surely he can respect you for IT! 🙃
Desmond Koh
[8:53 pm, 09/06/2020] : Thanks! haha
IT is a wide topic, everyone have their own views and so often we might not be right at time....
only time will tell what is right or wrong and there are more important to worry!!
Such as what to eat for lunch and dinner when one had been WFH since Jan haha
Blue and White Flag Guy
[8:56 pm, 09/06/2020] : 🙏
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REACH
[7:50 pm, 09/06/2020] : Singaporeans must stay ‘disciplined and vigilant’, prepare for more challenging times amid COVID-19: Lawrence Wong
Singaporeans must stay “disciplined and vigilant” in the fight against COVID-19 as the virus is not likely to go away, said Minister for National Development Lawrence Wong on Tuesday (Jun 9).
“We have to be realistic and gird ourselves for more challenging times,” he said in a televised address.
“We must therefore adapt to COVID-19 and learn to live with it over the long-term. This does not depend upon Government actions alone. Every one of us, Government, businesses and individuals, must do our part. What’s critical is people’s behaviour and mindsets.”
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-vigilant-disciplined-lawrence-wong-national-broadcast-12819616
REACH
[7:47 pm, 09/06/2020] : 📢 Topic 📢
1. Which part of Minister Lawrence Wong’s speech was the most meaningful for you?
2. How can we adapt to COVID-19 and its impact for the long haul?
[7:49 pm, 09/06/2020] : 1. There is no formula for success.
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Desmond Koh
[9:16 pm, 09/06/2020] : erm.. only the the courts can determine if he got misled people or not.. we not the judge, AGC or Police, so we should refrain from assuming or judging...
As i said, minister already addressed the concerns, so is up to him if he want to be the man to correct himself given that he created that petition based on the available facts at that time :)
Also can i quote you, please?
We are all adults, we looks at facts and informations, we are not so easy to be misled by the sugar-coating of the petition :)
[9:18 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Correct.
I let the Minister correct him.
I am just concern about the 40,000 or so people who sign the petition.
Desmond Koh
[9:20 pm, 09/06/2020] : ok lor as you say so :)
I was thinking everyday so many petitions, if all need to be very accurate (single source of truth) i think minister will be very busy clear on the backlogs haha
[9:22 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
The impact of petition - will lead to failure of virus prevention that cost us $100 billion.
Is it serious enough to respond?
[9:23 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
40000 sign is not a small number of people.
Desmond Koh
[9:24 pm, 09/06/2020] : my goodness. these ppl sign blindly
Petition to dethrone Trump.
[9:24 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
What is this got to do with us?
Desmond Koh
[9:26 pm, 09/06/2020] : quiz time: think deepr
Petition to dethrone Trump.
[9:26 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Sorry I don't waste time on irrelevant issue.
Desmond Koh
[9:27 pm, 09/06/2020] : oops, this petition already closed, i not asking people to sign up haha
Blue and White Flag Guy
[9:27 pm, 09/06/2020] : See you're being rude again
[9:28 pm, 09/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Then tell me how to respond?
Blue and White Flag Guy
[9:27 pm, 09/06/2020] : But Megan see petition link, Megan whip out yellow kad! Hahaha
Desmond Koh
[9:28 pm, 09/06/2020] : deleted, sorry Megan!!
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