04 Jun 2020 (12pm - 8pm)
REACH
[12:00 pm, 04/06/2020] : ⏰ Our chat will be open till 8pm today ⏰
📢 Topic 📢
Contributors have mentioned that some employers have mindsets such as ‘too old to hire’. Or think that those with higher skills are simply ‘over-qualified’ or ‘not adaptable enough’.
How can we encourage employers overcome such mindsets, to help our middle-aged and older workers stay employable?
The chairman of the new National Jobs Council, Senior Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam, said yesterday that the Council will work in the coming months to grow jobs and training opportunities on a much greater scale than anything attempted before.
The council has 17 members, including eight ministers and representatives from the labour movement and business associations. It will oversee the design and implementation of the SGUnited Jobs and Skills Package announced by Deputy Prime Minister Heng Swee Keat in his Fortitude Budget speech last week.
"We must work together as a national team to grow jobs and training opportunities in the coming months, on a scale well beyond any past experience," said Mr Tharman. "It is a challenging task, but achievable with tight coordination, and the tripartite partners going beyond established ways. We will use every way possible to create these opportunities, in both the public and private sectors, and pay special attention to our middle-aged and older workers."
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/new-council-to-create-jobs-on-unprecedented-scale
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/manpower/no-one-is-too-old-to-hire-too-qualified-to-adapt-tharman
👉https://www.facebook.com/496904023672427/posts/3516492341713565/
----
Jeffrey
[12:09 pm, 04/06/2020] : Help employers pay a portion of the older workers salary so they would have a chance to be employed in the first place. Then it's up to order workers to prove that they are experienced yet adaptable.
Matthew
[12:13 pm, 04/06/2020] : As an employer, I’m prepared and very happy to hire seniors. But I am of course only prepared to pay what I think is worth for the work.
I believe that my staff should be remunerated based on their work and what they can do for the company, rather than based on gender or age.
I am reluctant to pay someone more solely because of his or her age, and I rarely pay much more for better education qualifications. Using an extreme example, I wouldn’t pay my receptionist more than $2,500 even if he or she has a MBA or has worked as an investment banker for the past 20 years. But I’m willing and happy to hire that same person if he or she is willing to accept the pay I typically pay my Receptionists (even though he may be “over-qualified”). That said, if someone has more experience in the field they are hired to work and it shows in their work, I am happy to pay more for such employees.
Depending on the type of work and experience, some employees must be prepared to take a pay cut if they are joining a new company.
[12:14 pm, 04/06/2020] : https://www.facebook.com/hengsweekeat/photos/a.202086256496574/3058208507550987/?type=3&__tn__=H-R
Ken
[12:15 pm, 04/06/2020] : Really depends on how old, my company pays 62 and above half of their current pay. And yearly contract.
Rama
[12:18 pm, 04/06/2020] : Seems fair
Ken
[12:19 pm, 04/06/2020] : Same work no bonus 😅
Usually offer to Senoir management only
[12:21 pm, 04/06/2020] : Sometimes is hard to find replacement where some position takes year to accumulate knowledge to take up the job.
Rama
[12:23 pm, 04/06/2020] : True
David Murugan
[12:54 pm, 04/06/2020] : Check out how much you will be getting this month https://go.gov.sg/ecsc2020
Bobby Tan
[1:08 pm, 04/06/2020] : Most employers do not trust seniors can work well or thinking that seniors poor in IT. To encourage employers to employ seniors , G maybe should subsidise 40% of seniors wages for 6 months. After trying our employers once got confidence on the seniors will remain hiring the seniors.
REACH
[1:13 pm, 04/06/2020] : Eligible Singaporeans to receive Care and Support Package cash payments from Jun 18: MOF
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/eligible-singaporeans-care-support-package-cash-payout-june-18-12802582
Ken
[1:17 pm, 04/06/2020] : Often they are underpaid, I have a senior that got force to leave at late 40s after working in the company for almost 20 years.
Finding hard to secure a job related (pharmaceuticals lead lab tech), when found often was given only yearly contract and no renewal after that. And pay is quite low as well, for the experience they have.
[1:30 pm, 04/06/2020] : Education
As we review how jobs can be shaped, employers mindset should be cultivated to shift towards finding a person best fit for the job - aptitude/talents/experience/learnability through understand how the non-measurable competencies can be assessed.
Systemic change through policies
Govt policies could look into quota by age for some job scopes/industries/nature of work (not dependent on physical competencies such as precision machinery etc).
This could be similar concept to existing quota that we have imposed on SG: foreigners ration.
Financial Incentives
A further step (as mentioned by others in this chat), could be financial incentives/tax rebates for employers.
Govt as Role Model
Civil service should set an example by hiring older workers. There are industries such as Comms/PR/policies/Engagement based work, that predominantly has younger staffers, only coz of facilitated rotation. Hiring dept do not consider older/more experienced workers.
Practice Fair Work Review
Even if older workers are hired, discrimination takes place during work review as older workers are expected to learn faster than younger workers as they are more mature. Even if it is a transition into a completely new industry.
---
Anne
[1:37 pm, 04/06/2020] : My experience with some seniors is they think they know better than you, are stubborn, and worse, they refuse to do anything outside their “job scope”. They don’t understand proactiveness, and that very often, to get things done, they have to do things outside their job scope. They also have no sense of urgency. They think they work as fast as the younger people, but don’t realize they actually work very much slower.
So, I understand why some employers are hesitant to employ seniors.
Miki
[1:38 pm, 04/06/2020] : I think there is 3 phase that we are looking into rather then keep giving money to citizens.
1. too old to be hire
Do they still have the ability to go into sociality cause if not we will not only trouble they rest working with them and lower their self esteem. Could we think in other ways that they can contribute in a safer ways? Such as giving them allowance when they contribute in CC.
2. Over Qualified
Over Qualified is it a problem? Or company cannot pay what they are qualified. Do probation help such as if they can hit a quota to earn the revenue then increase paid can be considered? For seniors citizens I believe if they work shorter hours and get lower paid I think they will be more happy.
3. Not adaptable enough
Then upgrade of skill is required...
actually there have many ways we can look into 😄
Connie
[1:40 pm, 04/06/2020] : The age divide may be caused by education. In the past work are design by functions n specialisation. I think many cannot adapt to a more fluid environment.
[1:41 pm, 04/06/2020] : More training to this group of ppl
Ken
[1:43 pm, 04/06/2020] : Sometime is not about the training but employer willingness to hire them.
Connie
[1:44 pm, 04/06/2020] : Mindset change on both sides.
[1:44 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Everyone will get old one day.
And will be subjected to the same perception and treatment.
Connie
[1:46 pm, 04/06/2020] : Very true. Technology changes too fast n people cannot catch up with the speed.
Ken
[1:47 pm, 04/06/2020] : Yup... I am also afraid when the time comes 😞
Ben
[1:47 pm, 04/06/2020] : Yes agree. Many options. Particularly WFH and shorter hours, even if a reduced pay
[1:48 pm, 04/06/2020] : It's about training regularly to keep skills current. Big problem to do nothing while things are changing, and then after 10 years expect everyone to catch up.
Bobby Tan
[1:49 pm, 04/06/2020] There is nothing to scare of technology changes. I am always on the learning. Like now learning on Zoom. Previously I learned office 365 SharePoint. I also always try to improve my excel skills.
Ben
[1:51 pm, 04/06/2020] : Yes, good attitude. Sg has good training centres too. We have a skill fund. Maybe rather than spending that fund learning to bake cookies people could learn vocational skills to keep them current in the workplace.
Anne
[1:51 pm, 04/06/2020] : 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
----
[1:59 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
(1) It is a well-known fact that many companies will displace middle-age or older workers and/or less receptive to hire middle-age and/or older workers.
(2) There are many reasons for the above trend :-
- older workers tend to have higher pay - due to salary increment over the years.
- new technology are coming up fast - and older workers may not be trained for it (some companies don't systematically trained their older workers or older workers don't have time or some not willing to get themselves trained). Fresh graduates or younger workers are being trained for the newer technology and will displaced older workers.
- Fresh graduates or younger workers (who are more up-to-date in technology) and lower salary demand and perceived to be faster and more agile - is more enticing to employers.
- Some companies also prefer to hire younger foreigners because they are cheaper and have the above same perception - against older workers.
(3) Then what remedies to help middle-age and older workers to get employment :-
a. For those displaced older workers, get organisations to participate in the recruitment of older workers programme (provide tax incentive for these organisations who participate in such programme) -
- Internship and Trainee programme and Placement for older workers
- Training and Placement programme for older workers
- Subsidise wages (of at least 6 months through co-payment by government for older workers) - who have the right skillsets for new jobs
b. If the above programme does not entice more organisations to take part - in recruiting older workers :-
- may have to consider mandating 20% to 30% recruitment of older workers per organisation per year through employment policies.
c. Government Ministries and Statutory Board should demo by example - setting aside 20% to 30% to hire older workers.
---
Connie
[1:46 pm, 04/06/2020] : Very true. Technology changes too fast n people cannot catch up with the speed.
[1:59 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
(1) It is a well-known fact that many companies will displace middle-age or older workers and/or less receptive to hire middle-age and/or older workers.
(2) There are many reasons for the above trend :-
- older workers tend to have higher pay - due to salary increment over the years.
- new technology are coming up fast - and older workers may not be trained for it (some companies don't systematically trained their older workers or older workers don't have time or some not willing to get themselves trained). Fresh graduates or younger workers are being trained for the newer technology and will displaced older workers.
- Fresh graduates or younger workers (who are more up-to-date in technology) and lower salary demand and perceived to be faster and more agile - is more enticing to employers.
- Some companies also prefer to hire younger foreigners because they are cheaper and have the above same perception - against older workers.
(3) Then what remedies to help middle-age and older workers to get employment :-
a. For those displaced older workers, get organisations to participate in the recruitment of older workers programme (provide tax incentive for these organisations who participate in such programme) -
- Internship and Trainee programme and Placement for older workers
- Training and Placement programme for older workers
- Subsidise wages (of at least 6 months through co-payment by government for older workers) - who have the right skillsets for new jobs
b. If the above programme does not entice more organisations to take part - in recruiting older workers :-
- may have to consider mandating 20% to 30% recruitment of older workers per organisation per year through employment policies.
c. Government Ministries and Statutory Board should demo by example - setting aside 20% to 30% to hire older workers.
REACH
[2:14 pm, 04/06/2020] : CPF contribution rates to stay the same despite COVID-19 economic downturn
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/cpf-contribution-rates-no-change-covid-19-economy-12802992
[2:19 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
(1) I have come across some managers who sing the tune of the higher management - to displace older workers and hire more younger workers to cut cost.
(2) In the end, some of these managers also got displaced - because they are also getting old and higher paid.
Rama
[2:26 pm, 04/06/2020] : Serve them right!
[2:28 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
The problem lies with the senior management.
Middle management just sing their tune and do the hiring and firing.
Rama
[2:32 pm, 04/06/2020] : Never thinking they are next in line!
[2:32 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
If senior management is not sold to the ideas of retaining older staff - the problem of hiring older workers won't get solved.
Then govt policy may need to kick in.
Rama
[2:32 pm, 04/06/2020] : Yes
Rama
[2:34 pm, 04/06/2020] : SM Tharman will have his hands full with his upcoming pet project on this!
Stanley
[2:36 pm, 04/06/2020] : He is the only respectable minister
Rama
[2:41 pm, 04/06/2020] : Agree
-----
REACH
[3:33 pm, 04/06/2020] : 517 new coronavirus cases, including 15 in community
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/517-new-coronavirus-cases-including-15-in-community?xtor=CS3-18&utm_source=STiPhone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-06-04%2015%3A06%3A41
CQ
[3:39 pm, 04/06/2020] : Wonder where the 15 are from, which sector has increased testing which led to these numbers getting picked up
Rama
[3:45 pm, 04/06/2020] : Hugh!? Phase one closed and CB extended!
[3:48 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
15 SC PR.
A big jump in local transmission.
Companies still scrambling to tell all their workers to get to office to work?
Desmond Koh
[3:50 pm, 04/06/2020] : No la
Of these, two are Singaporeans or permanent residents and 13 are work pass holders.
Peter T Ng
[3:53 pm, 04/06/2020] : Think these number will eventuality be merged
REACH
[3:54 pm, 04/06/2020] : [Sent by Gov.sg – 4 Jun]
As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed an additional 517 cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore.
Majority are Work Permit holders residing in foreign worker dormitories.
Based on investigations so far, 15 are cases in the community (2 Singaporeans/PRs, 13 Work Pass holders).
All 15 cases were close contacts of earlier confirmed cases, and have already been placed on quarantine.
MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.
go.gov.sg/moh4junupdate
[3:58 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Work pass holders not workers in the community?
Desmond Koh
[3:59 pm, 04/06/2020] : Erm you said 15 SC PR....
[3:59 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Correction, I should say 15 community cases.
[4:00 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Because work pass holders can also work in office spaces.
Ben
[4:12 pm, 04/06/2020] : Yes, good info to have
CQ
[4:13 pm, 04/06/2020] : MOH says these were close contacts of cases confirmed previously. So I guess they're already placed on SHN since then?
Ben
[4:14 pm, 04/06/2020] : Yes, although the WP are not in dormitories so still a valid concern
---
Hui Min
[4:32 pm, 04/06/2020] : Hi, sorry off topic, anyone having issue with singpass mobile? Am having issue yesterday and today as well.
Rama
[4:32 pm, 04/06/2020] : I do
Caleb
[4:33 pm, 04/06/2020] : ya
[4:33 pm, 04/06/2020] : use QR code and scan lor
[4:33 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Use singpass password.
No problem can login.
Hui Min
[4:34 pm, 04/06/2020] : Can't get the push notification too. Haha
Rama
[4:34 pm, 04/06/2020] : Likewise
Hui Min
[4:35 pm, 04/06/2020] : As in the app doesn't load at all to the main page
Caleb
[4:35 pm, 04/06/2020] : ya
[4:35 pm, 04/06/2020] : I mean scan QR for safeentry
Rama
[4:35 pm, 04/06/2020] : Don't work for me3
Caleb
[4:36 pm, 04/06/2020] : or password for Gov website login
[4:36 pm, 04/06/2020] : @Think it's important for Gov to communicate
[4:36 pm, 04/06/2020] : when ppl experience problem, do communicate to the citizens
[4:36 pm, 04/06/2020] : dont wait until ppl make noise
[4:36 pm, 04/06/2020] : and bang table and all
[4:37 pm, 04/06/2020] : and then fake news reach to everyone
[4:37 pm, 04/06/2020] : but gov news, takes very long to reach everyone
[4:37 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Can't be.
2 persons just login thru singpass password and 2fa.
Can access.
Caleb
[4:37 pm, 04/06/2020] : think it's just SPM have issue
Hui Min
[4:39 pm, 04/06/2020] : Ah got it. Sorry too used to the push notification. Missed out the tab next to it. Haha
[4:41 pm, 04/06/2020] : Thanks!
Alvin
[4:41 pm, 04/06/2020] : Might be the interface feed doesn’t work or have issue
[4:41 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yap I tried again.
Can login.
Hui Min
[4:42 pm, 04/06/2020] : Maybe is my network here, tried on 2 hp and both can't. Anw manage to get it via 2fa. Thanks! =)
Alvin
[4:42 pm, 04/06/2020] : Turn off WiFi and try
Caleb
[4:43 pm, 04/06/2020] : ya me too
Alvin
[4:43 pm, 04/06/2020] : If use data can means your network issue
Caleb
[4:43 pm, 04/06/2020] : too many ppl usingf
[4:43 pm, 04/06/2020] : lol
[4:43 pm, 04/06/2020] : dont know to laugh or cry
Hui Min
[4:45 pm, 04/06/2020] : Tried, still can't load
Ken
[4:46 pm, 04/06/2020] : Restart your phone?
[4:46 pm, 04/06/2020] : If worst comes to worst reinstall lor.. all else fail then don’t know Liao
Caleb
[4:47 pm, 04/06/2020] : do u guys realize, since SafeEntry started. SPM is lag ?
Hui Min
[4:47 pm, 04/06/2020] : Haha, I will try again later. Happens once in awhile, after try ok again. Maybe just too many users at that time.
Alvin
[4:51 pm, 04/06/2020] : Think it’s normal
[4:51 pm, 04/06/2020] : Cos everyone uses it to scan mah
[4:51 pm, 04/06/2020] : Convenient
Rama
[4:51 pm, 04/06/2020] : Oops, okay after updated
Hui Min
[4:53 pm, 04/06/2020] : 👍🏼
[5:02 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singpass and 2fa design to handle very high volume traffic and very high resiliency 99.99% to 99.999%.
So highly unlikely to fail.
Unless bug in the software code.
[5:03 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
It is used by all government services and even financial sectors for web login authentication.
That's why design to be failsafe.
[5:11 pm, 04/06/2020] ☸️ Danny 心:
And its availability is monitored 24 hours with dummy web transaction injection.
David Murugan
[5:46 pm, 04/06/2020] : Mine yesterday ok, but today having no network issue from morning till same.
Am using qr code reader too no choice for safe entry.
Boon2
[7:38 pm, 04/06/2020] : 1. Expectations need to be realistic on both sides. Attitude and preconceptions should be identified and awareness raised to both employers and older employees, so that expectation gaps can be understood and addressed. For example, older employees could have deeper formed habits, which can be perceived to be a lack of open mindedness/lack of adaptability.
2. Job characteristics and worker characteristics need to be better matched, and again, awareness needs to be raised. Jobs can demand overtime, physical exertions, hygiene and/or more invisible mental stress eg. from facing different customers emotions in customer services, etc. Therefore, it does not simply mean that a older employee should be attracted to a role that is behind a counter if he/she has to face customers who can be impatient and pressed for time. Serving food can require hygiene that customers can be picky about.
3. Support infrastructure needs to be available for the older employees. They need supervision too.
4. On training. Training should be vocation specific and skills-based to be useful for re-employment, continued employment and/or to allow older employees certain capabilities to achieve financial independence from doing their own SME business.
Alvin
[7:54 pm, 04/06/2020] : 📢 Topic 📢
Contributors have mentioned that some employers have mindsets such as ‘too old to hire’. Or think that those with higher skills are simply ‘over-qualified’ or ‘not adaptable enough’.
How can we encourage employers overcome such mindsets, to help our middle-aged and older workers stay employable?
We should ask ourselves why would some employers think this way about hiring older folks. Have they encountered an obnoxious old employee before? Maybe they were mistreated by senior ppl before? Or is it simply because it’s easier getting a younger and cheaper employee (local or otherwise) to listen to them?
Once you can identify some of the causes, you can fine tune the policies to let employers adapt to the new normal and hopefully it helps both parties achieve their goals.
Rama
[7:55 pm, 04/06/2020] : Very difficult without legislation and incentives!
Boon2
[7:57 pm, 04/06/2020] : Legislations and incentives are powerful but they are not necessarily always needed. Media can play important roles to highlight and encourage awareness of the causes.
[7:58 pm, 04/06/2020] : Discussions like this helps too.
Leonard Lau
[7:59 pm, 04/06/2020] : The skill GAP is there and expectation from younger employers tend to worry that aged workers can’t follow thru or cope . Thus it takes 2 hands to clap . Agencies has to educate the younger or tech employers to be more open minded as well as getting elder workers to accept these new norms .
Rama
[7:59 pm, 04/06/2020] : Media must tell it as it is!
[7:59 pm, 04/06/2020] : We all will grow old one day!
No comments:
Post a Comment