REACH 531 - What are your views on the proposed harsher sentencing option for high-risk offenders? What more can we do to ensure public safety is prioritised?
(SK)
31 Jan 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
31/1/24, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
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Megan ๐
31/1/24, 10:00 am - +REACH: *๐ข Topic ๐ข*
On Monday (22 Jan), Law and Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam clarified that while a proposed harsher sentencing option could mean that some dangerous offenders who committed serious crimes could be detained indefinitely, it was also likely that some would be detained for a shorter period.
Minister K Shanmugam made these remarks to clarify some misunderstandings and aspects of a new Criminal Procedure (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill that was recently introduced in parliament earlier this month.
*๐ฌ What are your views on the proposed harsher sentencing option for high-risk offenders? What more can we do to ensure public safety is prioritised?*
The proposed framework empowers the courts to apply a Sentence for Enhanced Public Protection (SEPP) on dangerous offenders, specifying an imprisonment period spanning from five to 20 years.
Addressing apprehensions, Mr. Shanmugam clarified concerns related to the possibility of offenders sentenced to an SEPP being detained for life or an extended duration beyond the current norms.
Mr. Shanmugam highlighted that those who fail to undergo rehabilitation and consistently pose a significant risk post their minimum sentences may face extended detention. Additionally, he acknowledged the possibility of some offenders being subjected to shorter detention periods.
๐ https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/proposed-harsher-sentencing-not-all-high-risk-offenders-detained-life-shanmugam-bill-parliament-4081656
๐ https://str.sg/nEnY
31/1/24, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group
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31/1/24, 10:08 am - +Bhavani: High risk offenders are a threat to public safety so should be imprisoned for life.
31/1/24, 10:10 am - +Rama: Fair but must apply impartially without interference.
31/1/24, 10:31 am - +Smiley face: 31 January, 2023
"Sanity and Proofing Beyond All Doubts"
"In the case of mentally disabled individuals who committed unintentional crimes of harm or hate or even horror proven to be mentally unsound and thereafter sentenced by court may find themselves harder to reunite and integrate back to one's home and loved ones, community and society at large....
31/1/24, 11:05 am - +Frankie Wee: I had trying befriendly at IMH she was disorder bipolar. Not easy to make her understand and unwilling share open heart talk. She would sometime very foul mind and aggressive
31/1/24, 11:08 am - +Frankie Wee: Ex-convict alway out and in jail again will be new SEPP under revise by lawyer.
31/1/24, 11:10 am - +Frankie Wee: What if it murder very high risk Ah’s serious sent death penalty.
31/1/24, 11:32 am - +Bhavani: If they are so mentally disabled that they have committed crimes harming other people physically, it would be dangerous to release them among the public
31/1/24, 11:33 am - +Bhavani: There is no way they should be among the community causing harm again
31/1/24, 11:34 am - +Bhavani: We have enough stresses to worry about, to also have to worry about threat to our lives
31/1/24, 11:35 am - +Bhavani: There is no way people who physically harm others dangerously can ever integrate back to the community and society at large
31/1/24, 12:02 pm - +Rama: The government gazette and the law society can shed some light.
31/1/24, 12:03 pm - +Rama: Selective offences only ismy belief not across the board.
31/1/24, 12:04 pm - +~.@: My take is that for this to be truly impartial, the court should be the one deciding and not the minister.. let the court justices review the condition. the minister is still a political office. we also dont want a risk of the rule being used to detain political opponents for extended period. the mechanism is of a good intent, but the execution is the one I don't agree with.
31/1/24, 12:05 pm - +Rama: My sentiments exactly!
31/1/24, 12:09 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
31/1/24, 12:13 pm - +Bhavani: Again DNA modification may be researched on to see if it can be done ethically of course, to change the behaviour of harmful criminals. Otherwise, it is dangerous to release physical harm causing criminals
31/1/24, 12:14 pm - +Rama: NO!
31/1/24, 12:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: How do it work? Use electric shock on the brain ๐ง ?
31/1/24, 12:17 pm - +Bhavani: Currently a lot of research is underway to assess if DNA can be modified to prevent diseases. Currently dna tests are already undergone by some criminals to find out if they have committed crimes
31/1/24, 12:17 pm - +Rama: Laymen cannot make such suggestions! Only we'll renowned academics and medical researchers.
31/1/24, 12:17 pm - +Smiley face: 31 January, 2023
"Sanity and Proofing Beyond All Doubts"
"In the case of mentally disabled individuals who committed unintentional crimes of harm or hate or even horror proven to be mentally unsound and thereafter sentenced by court may find themselves harder to reunite and integrate back to one's home and loved ones, community and society at large.
Nothing profound, the proposed stricter measures perhaps is to ensure the overall public safety and at the same consideration all questionable spectrum of mental disorders may continue to haunt a person for a longer period of time or in cases over a lifetime of mental instability even with medical interventions.
There are Psychiatric evidences to substantiate when mentally unstable patients encountering past experiences (unconscious) in present moment (un-conscious) may trigger them to commit illogical acts upon other innocence strangers at random or in a sequential momentum triggering undesirable social actions, once again, similar to previous convicted wrongdoings."
- - anonymity
31/1/24, 12:18 pm - +Rama: Must be published in respect renowned lnternational publication with comments from pros and cons for public consultation
31/1/24, 12:19 pm - +Rama: Very dangerous precedence to play God!
31/1/24, 12:19 pm - +Smiley face: Perhaps so, for the underlying complexity of the human mind and the following behaviors and the psychology of actions are full of questionable intentions... for good or bad or ugly?
31/1/24, 12:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: Ex-convert has mind and body is regularly itself. When he wanted come back from jail
31/1/24, 12:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: This habitat place he used to live there
31/1/24, 12:20 pm - +Rama: Psychology and psychology and psychology and psychiatry of the human mind is still not in depth enough.
31/1/24, 12:20 pm - +Rama: I meyn psychiatry and psychology together.
31/1/24, 12:21 pm - +Smiley face: Thousands of peered reviewed articles....all showing the limitations of understanding the entire faculty of the human Brain... unless we microchip into the Brain to further our knowledge of the plasticity of neurons and connectivity to act, react and counteract...
31/1/24, 12:22 pm - +Rama: Will take more than eternity.
31/1/24, 12:22 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, the first being qualitative and the later is quantitative.
31/1/24, 12:22 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/1/24, 12:23 pm - +Smiley face: Micro and nano connectivity that's beyond scientists' abilities in full to BRAIN MAPPING the human anatomy and neurology!
31/1/24, 12:23 pm - +Rama: So, don't tamper with human DNA!
31/1/24, 12:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68137046
31/1/24, 12:25 pm - +Rama: Hood Point!
31/1/24, 12:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: It would be useful to hack
31/1/24, 12:25 pm - +Bhavani: Yes maybe beyond human scientists, but AI might be able to solve the problem!
31/1/24, 12:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2F1s%2F2024%2F01%2F30%2F08%2F65302827-0-Elon_Musk_s_Nueralink_plans_to_test_the_chip_in_humans_at_least_-a-1_1706602187925.jpg&tbnid=EQ7Wxq6NezMTdM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fsciencetech%2Farticle-13022313%2FElon-Musk-Neuralink-brain-chip-guide-human-implanted.html&docid=HkzyS2JBYynsbM&w=634&h=383&itg=1&hl=en-sg&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&kgs=a783f18febf4771e
31/1/24, 12:30 pm - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/tN1lVwTHCMw?si=Ahv64_7_D9hSVoOn
31/1/24, 12:31 pm - +Smiley face: In Carl Gustav Jung's final words, the future of analytical Psychology...one is overwhelmed by new impressions and new possibilities.. the future generation has the advantage of a clearer than incomplete picture... and one now knows what must be known if one is to explore the newly discovered territory. (Carl Gustav Jung, 26/7/1875 - 6/6/1961)
31/1/24, 12:32 pm - +Rama: Ridiculous thought!
31/1/24, 12:33 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s helping sound control into brain function speech
31/1/24, 12:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: I though brain it’s helping eye reading inform
31/1/24, 12:36 pm - +Frankie Wee: Elon musk wanted show the world that he will make 100% human live from brain chip. What if I say brain chip shut down then he will become violence
31/1/24, 12:37 pm - +Smiley face: Computing derived from the early understanding of how the human being works...key is processing, storing and executing...
Today's advanced techniques are computing based know-how and the emergence of AI is a profound knowledge and breakthrough of humankind including sensory receptors!
"Sensors" and surveillance system!
31/1/24, 12:37 pm - +Smiley face: Brain!
31/1/24, 12:38 pm - +Smiley face: How to integrate human languages with machine languages ?
31/1/24, 12:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s understood he has no self discipline and violence. When his Brian come from generation dna ๐งฌ by his former parent were abuse from beginning learned
31/1/24, 12:40 pm - +Rama: ๐ณ๐๐๐
31/1/24, 12:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: Wonder why need chip brain humanity. Because he is adult but actual mentally disabled is brain never learned behaviour
31/1/24, 12:42 pm - +Rama: ๐คท♂️
31/1/24, 12:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: Human it’s common in the world not 100% true or honesty
Most is liars
Lie is good point
Lie is bad point
31/1/24, 12:45 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My close friend comments:-
I understand the good intent of SEPP but I'm concerned over the final decision of release rest upon the Minster of the day.
Does that mean we are mixing government powers and judicial powers?
What if one day, the people of Singapore voted in a bunch of morons ?
Letting them govern is bad enough, and they also encroach into judicial matters? ๐ค
31/1/24, 12:48 pm - +Rama: Likewise
31/1/24, 12:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: Exactly
31/1/24, 12:48 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: I second this.
It gives the minister so much power. They are the ones who decide who's guilty or not. If the minister is fair and just, is ok. But we can't guarantee that. Our ministers are not 100% perfect.
31/1/24, 12:49 pm - +Smiley face: Are you crazy?
"Disorders: ADHA, anxiety, behavioral & emotional, bipolar, eating, dissociation, obsessive-compulsive, paranoid, PTSD, psychosis, schizophrenia."
- - anonymity
Controlling your Body & thinking Faster?
How to send a signal and command your stomach to digest slower and optimise the process of oxygen and CO2? How about instructing your heart to pump according to your activity whether is walking, sitting or exercising at various intensity? And to act and react under highly stressed conditions such as a crisis or in an examination?...
31/1/24, 12:57 pm - +Rama: Too much currently in the hands of politicians!
31/1/24, 12:58 pm - +Rama: One example is ISA which long ago was the judiciary to decide until the government lost the case and the minister became the judge!
31/1/24, 12:59 pm - +Thailand words: Yes I agree. As now we are going back to 1960s. they side by side. They can do what they like . Even "c" do nothing. Where got F & S . School can forge signature and they doing nothing even the "SC" and "P" .
31/1/24, 1:02 pm - +Thailand words: Once they are the top the can do anything, even there is fair or justice. In order not the shame "G" . they will still cover up each other otherwise big news will be out and they got fire and throw out. Which "M" want this. They are holding high $ , who will go against $. Even they are fair, they will still follow the trend and became not fair
31/1/24, 1:03 pm - +Bhavani: No it's not ridiculous
31/1/24, 1:05 pm - +Thailand words: 16 years kana strong education. Whose fault , Not the child but it is the society fault. Here no longer like the past Lee situation, every fair and all problem rectify, without biased. Now is like rojak , every "M" side each other in other to cover themselves aso that they will not be the next to chop
31/1/24, 1:11 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
My close friend comments:-
The key is to vote for good wise men.
Doesn't mean vote opposition going to solve the problem.
31/1/24, 1:12 pm - +Thailand words: Vote for smart one that not scare of chop
31/1/24, 1:16 pm - +Simon: This message was deleted
31/1/24, 1:16 pm - +Rama: Unless ratified by future government
31/1/24, 1:17 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/1/24, 1:17 pm - +Rama: Yes
31/1/24, 1:17 pm - +Rama: Exactly!
31/1/24, 1:19 pm - +Thailand words: Tried be clean, They will make stories and sweep out . Not small stories but big one until so shameful. So which "M" can be fair and Justice unless they want to hit the top new create by the ................
31/1/24, 1:21 pm - +Thailand words: Unless Justice Bao alive as he not scare of these.......................... and willing to use his life to uphold justice. In this era, where got such ppl. Every one salute to $ . .....................said east , every one rush there without second thought to protect themselves.
31/1/24, 1:23 pm - +Thailand words: Just like the transport , think before do . After launch got problem, they hold back and big a news of how much they use to go back old system . This is show off. If they confident it works well , will this happen. All this is tax payer $ . Taking $ pay and trial is the worse decision
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Rama: Half past six LTA!
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I think there is a valid point for the bill.
Because hardcore criminals after serving their sentence - do continue to commit crime because they have not repented.
Thus they do post a threat to the society.
Hence additional measures will need to protect society from such hardcore criminals.
But of course, there is a need to ensure the additional measures are appropriate, not punitive or subject to abuse - because true enough, good government is not always a given in a democracy as populism can throw in a fluke government.
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Rama: ๐๐๐
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: He order sent them executive cut off head
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Thailand words: Now the other thing is school forge signature still can stay in school to teach, what moral is this. Teach the children to chaet lie forge document . These are rubbish .
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Rama: Valid yes but still suspicious intend is there!
31/1/24, 1:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t know how to believe real story
31/1/24, 1:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: Justice alway respond them SEPP every step case
31/1/24, 1:29 pm - +Thailand words: When old lee is around , there are lesser crime . After he pass on, all went up. What is ..............................doing ? Sleeping ?
Talking about hard core, who will go back unless situation force them. Outside everything is X , there is no sympathy around, every one is color blind. If I am a hardcore, I will chose go back free food , free lodging , everything is free and every one is not color blind. the hard core will be recognitions in there than out side as all are equal inside there.
31/1/24, 1:29 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/1/24, 1:33 pm - +Thailand words: Every thing has a root cause. Without looking at the root cause, no matter how hard they trim the leave , the culprit is still there. Before starting all these trimming , they will have to on how to treat the root and do prevention .
By give .................... high authorize, then if he dun like who ever he can anyhow blame others.
This is not "I" , while fist or wealth take control all .
A wise leader should look after the root cause and not his preference on dealing .
31/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: The ex-convict said I don’t care what minister set new SEPP. I will enjoy in jail eat and sleep. All this NOTHING life.
31/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Thailand words: I salute Old L . He run it so well but got ruin after he pass on. During his times, all are justice. He is always there to hear ppl out and do the necessary be it a "G" or what ever . He is a partial , justice leader
31/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Rama: Same application when CJ Suresh Menon mentioned some time ago that something must be done to prevent ex convicts from treating prison as a eternal home!
31/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Encouraging give a second chance by ex-convict is really hard accept
31/1/24, 1:36 pm - +Thailand words: Yup all free . And no colour sight ppl . Every one is equal inside , not like the society
31/1/24, 1:36 pm - +Rama: How many ex convicts are working in civil service and government link companies!?
31/1/24, 1:37 pm - +Thailand words: No matter how hard they encourage, also no use , it is how the society accept them and how "G" make society accept them without colour blind
31/1/24, 1:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: 10% of them or 60% are chance
31/1/24, 1:37 pm - +Thailand words: Wait long long , none of them .
31/1/24, 1:37 pm - +Thailand words: There is section that ex convict are not allow to work in "G"
31/1/24, 1:37 pm - +Rama: At what level? Rank and file/middle management?
31/1/24, 1:38 pm - +Rama: No issue
31/1/24, 1:38 pm - +Rama: My thinking
31/1/24, 1:38 pm - +Bhavani: Yes similar to what I said in earlier Reach feedback, criminality can also arise from severe injustice faced by criminals, like for example, if their parents get attacked for no reason and they face unbearable trauma from witnessing the ferocious attack and want to take revenge on perpetrator <This message was edited>
31/1/24, 1:39 pm - +Rama: Is society don't change, government must set example!
31/1/24, 1:39 pm - +Thailand words: Even "G" are colour blind , what do think of the society, of course they will color blind also.
31/1/24, 1:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore singapore changi prison how many prisons they had turn new leaf
31/1/24, 1:39 pm - +Rama: Agree!
31/1/24, 1:40 pm - +Rama: Society and government ostracized them!
31/1/24, 1:40 pm - +Thailand words: Wait long long , the need $ only . Do u think they will set example.
The school forge signature, it is "G" school. is this an good example
31/1/24, 1:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Chance are job offer them they must be well educated and behaviour
31/1/24, 1:41 pm - +Rama: Wow!
31/1/24, 1:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Unbelievable ex-convict can do well in O level result all high score
31/1/24, 1:42 pm - +Thailand words: Yes they are well behave and educate, but how long they can sustain when others looking at them differently and every thing so X. Might as well go in better.
31/1/24, 1:42 pm - +Rama: Perseverance and determination to turn over a new leaf!
31/1/24, 1:42 pm - +Rama: True
31/1/24, 1:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: SEPP nothing is change new policy prison
31/1/24, 1:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: Keep on out and in
31/1/24, 1:43 pm - +Thailand words: Dun forget, inside everything is free. and all ppl dun carry color spec. They treat each other equal . hence they are more able to pour out the trouble to each other without despite or look down
31/1/24, 1:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: True
31/1/24, 1:44 pm - +Rama: Yes
31/1/24, 1:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: But problem is mental and behaviour
31/1/24, 1:44 pm - +Rama: Yes
31/1/24, 1:45 pm - +Thailand words: Example, I put out a fire while other tried to rose the fire . If u will me , will u still keep putting off fire, u will not. The root cause of this is the ppl rose the fire , and we deal with it the keep putting off fire and let the ppl keep rose the fire. It will never end
31/1/24, 1:47 pm - +Thailand words: Rather than set up this. They should have organization without color spec and motive. hear them out , guide them, support them, and solve problem together, that a high "G" has the right to judge and causing more problem and CWP get more crowed
31/1/24, 1:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2022/10/26/malaysia-aims-to-cut-prison-occupancy-by-two-thirds-in-eight-years
31/1/24, 1:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: The same Singapore need cut down prison sentences
31/1/24, 1:49 pm - +Thailand words: If this the problem , we cannot do anything at the end of the day , who cause this ? Society ? PPL ard ? or himself all this are part of the root cause
31/1/24, 1:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Govt budget too spent on them no future in Changi prison for too and imprisonment
31/1/24, 1:49 pm - +Rama: Rehabilitation and re-entry into work force/society and family critical with adequate support!
31/1/24, 1:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Like that out and in
31/1/24, 1:49 pm - +Thailand words: "G" $ also go to dustbin doing nothing , throwing them in sea <This message was edited>
31/1/24, 1:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: They are being human by law
31/1/24, 1:50 pm - +Rama: Yes
31/1/24, 1:50 pm - +Rama: Not law but by birth and nature
31/1/24, 1:50 pm - +Thailand words: These group are alos clour blind, they just show off what they had did. Problem still persist on
31/1/24, 1:51 pm - +Rama: Money and time wasted with nothing to show!
31/1/24, 1:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: Being human by law
Justice can’t throw them sent them execution nor salvation or make them no pay
31/1/24, 1:54 pm - +Thailand words: who said nothing to show ? They show other ppl or world how good there are in helping them to turn new leaf. The fact or behind story is non. They are make as publication <This message was edited>
31/1/24, 1:54 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes it’s a lot spent on
31/1/24, 1:54 pm - +Rama: Percentage of genuine success! ?
31/1/24, 1:56 pm - +Thailand words: None, as they are doing it with heart but doing it of show off . Without looking how they feel and what they need
31/1/24, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *๐ข Topic ๐ข*
31/1/24, 2:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Amos Yee will be back Singapore when he is release in US prison
31/1/24, 2:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: He will be sent again prison here
31/1/24, 2:03 pm - +Rama: Pointless as rehabilitation won't work
31/1/24, 2:04 pm - +Rama: Then subject to interpretation
31/1/24, 2:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes that’s why mind and body are always against.
31/1/24, 2:06 pm - +Rama: So, should AI alter his DNA!?
31/1/24, 2:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: ๐ better for him put on chip brain ๐ง
31/1/24, 2:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Do we feeling cruel human on him into his brain into chip?
31/1/24, 2:10 pm - +Smiley face: Only if humankind cracks the code of life, aka DNA... then the speed of knowledge and technological breakthrough will be lightning faster than all known quantum computing and science!
Start by crashing and cracking the mind?
31/1/24, 2:16 pm - +Rama: ๐๐๐
31/1/24, 2:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: 100%
31/1/24, 2:17 pm - +Rama: Divine intervention will not allow
31/1/24, 2:29 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Like the matrix
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
"Online Criminal Harms Act to kick in from Feb 1, with special provisions for scams".
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/online-criminal-harms-act-to-kick-in-from-feb-1-with-special-provisions-for-scams#:~:text=Online%20Criminal%20Harms%20Act%20to%20kick%20in%20from%20Feb%201%2C%20with%20special%20provisions%20for%20scams
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
31/1/24, 2:36 pm - +Smiley face: Fantasy or Reality?
Most countries would disallowed people with criminal records access to their countries. Given the fact of migrations, would it not be prudent to check the status of foreign individuals seeking entry to a country; firstly to have a clean record, secondly, a clean bill of health and thirdly, the means to survive?
31/1/24, 2:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: If they are smoking or drug abuse before then will be thirdly and surviving in prison.
If they healthy and good exhausted in healthy have good emotional peace thinner.
Changi prison has nothing special
31/1/24, 2:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Malaysia going former president Nijb in prison luxuries
31/1/24, 3:01 pm - +Smiley face: Alcatraz?
31/1/24, 3:02 pm - +REACH: Dear Contributor @Rama
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31/1/24, 3:21 pm - +Smiley face: Fantasy or Reality?
Road accidents that caused severe damages or death. Part of the preliminary Police investigations is to dig into Both victim and driver mental health to disprove any foul play or existing mental disorders or intentional suicidal behavior. Are there past and or present traces of prescribed psychotic drugs, drugs overdose or drugs abused? All of these knowns and unknowns will form the bulk of legal challenges to the defense and the prosecution....
31/1/24, 3:25 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Looking at this Bill objectively, I think there is valid justification to :-
a. Ensure hardcore, recalcitrant and refusal to repent criminals - are kept out of the Society - as they will re-commit crimes and cause harm to the population - even though they may have finished serving their sentence.
b. Judge will be stressed out to meted out the maximum sentence - even though the crime may not merit it - if the Judge feel that the accused will re-offend after completing his/her sentence.
Sometimes, even the maximum sentence will not keep the offenders from re-offending again - if the offenders have not repented and refrain from re-committing crime.
c. Hence, I feel that most people will support the need to implement additional measures - rather than just relying on court sentence to deter hardcore recalcitrant and non-repentance criminals.
I feel that there are not much dispute or disagreement on this point.
2. Now is how to implement additional measures fairly to ensure hardcore criminals are keep out of the Society from causing harm, but at the same time :-
a. Ensure the additional measures are not being abused
b. Administer fairly
c. And an escape switch be allowed, if hardcore criminals have indeed repented and longer custody will not be necessary.
d. Another dimension is being raised - should Government and Justice functions be segregated - in administering criminal justice?
Let us examine this dimension in details later on.
31/1/24, 3:26 pm - +Rama: Point 2d -YES!
31/1/24, 4:00 pm - +REACH: *๐ข Topic ๐ข*
31/1/24, 4:01 pm - +Rama: 2b. Psychological and psychiatric evaluation plays a important part too along with impartial input from case officers.
31/1/24, 4:02 pm - +Rama: Point 2a. How to ensure independent audit!?
31/1/24, 4:06 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
*Should Government functions be segregated from Justice functions - in administering criminal justice?*
1. The issue being, Government is a lawmaker that make laws, debate in Parliament, get the law approved.
And Courts will judge based on the approved laws - in administering justice.
Hence the segregation of functions is clear and transparent - no conflict of interest.
And no one is above the law.
This scenario is particularly important as it introduce "check and balance" - whereby Government check on the Justice function (by amending laws to ensure Justice can carry out its job competently and objectively).
At the same time, Justice and check the Government to ensure abuse cannot take place and no one is above the law.
And particular applicable - if populist fluke incompetent government win the election in a democratic election.
2. On the other hand, if a good and competent Government is helming the Governance, then a caring and competent Minister who has the last say that encompass this new Bill is not an issue - because the Government job is to protect the population and the Society.
3. The concern raise by my close friend - is due to many examples that have recently arises globally --- too sensitive to raise here.
But indeed a rogue government - could have abused the additional measures - and keep people out of circulation.
4. So throwing another mechanism into discussion :-
- how about having an advisory panel comprising of professionals of the right calibre to advise the court?
5. There are pros and cons to each approach:-
a. Minister have the final say - to extend or shorten the criminals - based on experts advise - if indeed the hardcore criminals have repented or not.
- Pro :- A good, competent and caring Minister will be very efficient and effective - in safeguarding the population and Society, while ensuring the offenders right are not abused if the offenders indeed have repented and can be re-integrated into the Society.
- Con :- A bad Minister could abuse it - by keeping good people but non-supporters of Government out of the Society.
b. An independent advisory professional panel.
- Pro - Justice independent from Government. Professional advisory panel more objective and less likely to subject to abuse - if the independent panel is objectively selected.
- Con - less efficient and more time consuming to assemble a team of independent professionals. Still can be abused if selected by a bad government to do its biding.
Even if this independent advisory professional panel is decided by Court and not the Government - there are still cons to it, for example:-
- A bad government can retire the Judges and insert Judges that do its biding.
- Court may not have the expertise to look for and appoint competent and independent professional panel - and will have to rely on Government that have the resources and knowledge to do so.
6. Hence I stay neutral in either approach - that is Minister have final say or Independent Professional Panel --- as both approach have its pros and cons -- and both rely on a Good and Competent Government of the Day.
Hence electing a Good and Competent Governmen is paramount come the General Election.
Else no matter what mechanism put in to do the "Check and Balance" - a bad government can dismantle many things - and put the Country in a very bad state.
It all depends on the Wisdom of the Voters - to vote in a Good and Dependable Government - not a populist one that promise everything under the sun - but will sink the Country in near, middle or long term.
This is my "Honest Assessment" and also my "Close Friend Assessment".
31/1/24, 4:19 pm - +Rama: Point 2. Minister having the last say is an issue for me.
31/1/24, 4:19 pm - +Rama: Same for Point 5.
31/1/24, 4:20 pm - +Rama: Point 6 - Independent
31/1/24, 4:25 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The check and balance is, if a minister make abusive or wrong decision - voters can make a choice during election.
If independent advisory panel make a wrong decision - what will be the recourse?
Just thinking aloud...
31/1/24, 4:26 pm - +Smiley face: Ministers are given the peoples' mandates to decide...?
31/1/24, 4:27 pm - +Rama: Election time means live with five years of mistake!
31/1/24, 4:27 pm - +Rama: Seems to be taken for granted!
31/1/24, 4:28 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So independent advisory panel mistake have no recourse...
31/1/24, 4:30 pm - +Rama: Yet to be tested.
31/1/24, 4:30 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That means, independent advisory panel power is bigger than the minister - and there is no recourse.
31/1/24, 4:32 pm - +Smiley face: That's all folks!
Importantly, at the end of the day, all we want is a sane, safe and stable Singapore!
(้่ฆ็ๆฏ，ๅฝๆ น็ปๅบ，ๆไปฌๆณ่ฆ็ๅชๆฏไธไธช็ๆบ、ๅฎๅ จๅ็จณๅฎ็ๆฐๅ ๅก！)
31/1/24, 4:34 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/1/24, 4:35 pm - +Rama: Ownself check ownself, punish ownself, cover ownself, reward ownself is the issue.
31/1/24, 4:36 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Yes.
Voters check Minister.
Independent panel - ownself check ownself.
31/1/24, 4:38 pm - +Rama: Five years to live with a mistake is too long.
31/1/24, 4:39 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Independent panel mistake is eternal.
31/1/24, 4:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: Political and self integrity standards all minister must come clean and zero tolerance corruption
31/1/24, 4:40 pm - +Rama: Both has its setbacks
31/1/24, 4:41 pm - +Rama: Easier said than done.
31/1/24, 4:41 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
That's why I stay neutral - because there are no perfect solution.
31/1/24, 4:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Word louder than action
31/1/24, 4:42 pm - +Rama: Have to make a stand sometimes.
31/1/24, 4:42 pm - +Rama: Action seems timid.
31/1/24, 4:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: Trump no good
31/1/24, 4:44 pm - +Rama: Agree!
31/1/24, 4:44 pm - +Smiley face: How to draw the code?
Sanity and insanity, clean and dirty? Guilty and not guilty?
31/1/24, 4:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: The same Singapore support
31/1/24, 4:44 pm - +Smiley face: Good or bad?
31/1/24, 4:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hard justice
31/1/24, 4:46 pm - +Smiley face: Sending someone to death row is hard justice, by meaning of sleepless nites prior and after the sentence is carried out? The judges that decided....True or false?
31/1/24, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Hard to say in our local context.
31/1/24, 4:48 pm - +Smiley face: The same concept can be applied to retain or extend someone from the daylight of freedom and out of jail or mental institution?
31/1/24, 4:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: True basic on case lawyer battle to win client. But hardest is carry drug may sent to death penalty
31/1/24, 4:50 pm - +Rama: With proper diagnosis and recommendations. Not behind the scenes influence.
31/1/24, 4:50 pm - +Rama: Yes
31/1/24, 4:56 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Single ward yes. What about GRC
31/1/24, 4:57 pm - +Frankie Wee: Can let people voice mandates so minister will make decisions
31/1/24, 4:57 pm - +Rama: Exactly!?
31/1/24, 4:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singaporean people
31/1/24, 4:58 pm - +Rama: Public consultation is vague still!
31/1/24, 4:59 pm - +Rama: Outcome seems doctored
31/1/24, 5:00 pm - +Smiley face: Still mandate counts.
31/1/24, 5:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mental institution let have exam according. Release from jail they feeling freedom but nobody be there for him or her.
31/1/24, 5:01 pm - +Rama: True
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: Own self care ownself
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Yup
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Agreed self care
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: Then comes the LONELY MIND....
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Emotional and psychological support lacking
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes agreed
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Leading to!?
31/1/24, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: Then start to think...
31/1/24, 5:03 pm - +Smiley face: Old ways...
31/1/24, 5:03 pm - +Rama: Is life worth living!?
31/1/24, 5:03 pm - +Smiley face: Wait ...
31/1/24, 5:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Think oneself and bravo to step out to committee centre or church
31/1/24, 5:04 pm - +Smiley face: Jung agreed with Freud on the theory of Repression that explained the reasons of unconscious as unconscious, simply to say the conscious experience proving unconscious and causing conflicts was repressed thus became unconscious. Whether it was dream or manifestation of abnormality; thus proving consciousness had it not repressed would have remained conscious. For Jung who strongly believed that the unconscious mind acted autonomously means that the motivated conscious mind acted independently....
31/1/24, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Family social services!?
31/1/24, 5:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes social worker helping
31/1/24, 5:04 pm - +Smiley face: Limitations
31/1/24, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Hugh!?
31/1/24, 5:05 pm - +Rama: Workload stress
31/1/24, 5:05 pm - +Smiley face: Skill to help?
31/1/24, 5:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Workforce planning
31/1/24, 5:06 pm - +Frankie Wee: What he or she want to start plan
31/1/24, 5:06 pm - +Smiley face: Let's find out just how many qualified SW?
31/1/24, 5:06 pm - +Rama: Based on current means testing
31/1/24, 5:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Help them get better chance life than going back jail
31/1/24, 5:07 pm - +Smiley face: First happening....
31/1/24, 5:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Emotional intelligence must accepted who they are belong
31/1/24, 5:08 pm - +Smiley face: Identity crisis?
31/1/24, 5:08 pm - +Rama: Yup
31/1/24, 5:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: If he or she reject
There is nothing left in life alone even not enough saving for them
31/1/24, 5:09 pm - +Rama: Agree
31/1/24, 5:09 pm - +Smiley face: Second happening?...
31/1/24, 5:09 pm - +Rama: Still must help
31/1/24, 5:09 pm - +Smiley face: Physical, Emotional, Mental (PEM)
31/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cry or not
Stay away or not
Feeling more guilty without seek help
31/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Smiley face: Make it happen!
31/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Rejected will be more difficult
31/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Smiley face: Third happening?
31/1/24, 5:11 pm - +Frankie Wee: Finally if they have good life begin career or own business stall
31/1/24, 5:11 pm - +Smiley face: Engage & Integrate
31/1/24, 5:11 pm - +Smiley face: Third happening.... realization!
31/1/24, 5:11 pm - +Rama: That would be great
31/1/24, 5:12 pm - +Smiley face: Engage, Integrate, realize.
31/1/24, 5:18 pm - +Rama: ๐ค
31/1/24, 5:45 pm - +Smiley face: Let's think of the larger concept of "Active Living"...
31/1/24, 5:48 pm - +Rama: Community must come together
31/1/24, 5:49 pm - +Smiley face: When an individual turns to the extreme, it can be violence or or radical thoughts, or the end game of terror attacks....
What did it say about this individual mind/brain?
Loneliness and distance from family, workplace or school and the society at large!
Unable to connect meaningfully and the meaning of success is not in the consideration sets of this mind!
So how to re-engage this brain?
31/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Rama: Easier to deal with cluster than a lobe wolf
31/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Smiley face: What are the attributes of failure?
1) cannot find common ground
31/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Smiley face: 2)?
31/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Smiley face: 3) ?
31/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Smiley face: Declutter
31/1/24, 5:52 pm - +Smiley face: 2) level and intensity of engagements
31/1/24, 5:52 pm - +Smiley face: 3) ?
31/1/24, 5:52 pm - +Rama: 2) online influence without knowledge of family
31/1/24, 5:52 pm - +Rama: 3) peer pressure
31/1/24, 5:52 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, that's the environment...
Two prong.... internal and external
31/1/24, 5:53 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, usually that 5-7 folks
31/1/24, 5:53 pm - +Rama: Yup
31/1/24, 5:54 pm - +Smiley face: If you are ISD, you focus on groupings...
Then declutter to find that 1 or 2 !
31/1/24, 5:55 pm - +Smiley face: 4) the use of Soft and Hard tactics....Both the radic and the authority can use it.
31/1/24, 5:55 pm - +Smiley face: 5) ?
31/1/24, 5:55 pm - +Rama: Monitor social media, listen to coffee shop talk/other public places etc
31/1/24, 5:57 pm - +Smiley face: Coffee shops are an old venue for older folks...
The Youth of today do it other ways, only through penetrating into the group, you will begin to SEE and GOT IT...
Remember, Human are social animals and creatures of habits
31/1/24, 5:58 pm - +Rama: Recruitment while in university
31/1/24, 5:59 pm - +Smiley face: Yes....one avenue, poly, ITE, JC?
31/1/24, 5:59 pm - +Smiley face: 5) in search of that RING LEADER
31/1/24, 5:59 pm - +Smiley face: 6)?
31/1/24, 6:00 pm - +Smiley face: The penetrator!
31/1/24, 6:00 pm - +REACH: *๐ข Topic ๐ข*
31/1/24, 6:04 pm - +Rama: No public consultation or white paper!?
31/1/24, 6:04 pm - +Smiley face: 6) correlation causation fallacy
31/1/24, 6:04 pm - +Smiley face: You wish for one, you may just get one?
31/1/24, 6:05 pm - +Rama: Ok
31/1/24, 6:06 pm - +Rama: Also, why is the law society not allowed to participate, comment for or against publicly!?
31/1/24, 6:07 pm - +Smiley face: Perhaps, aka datang after 7pm?
31/1/24, 6:08 pm - +Rama: ๐๐๐
31/1/24, 6:08 pm - +Smiley face: Perhaps.....?
31/1/24, 6:11 pm - +Rama: The former head of the Singapore academy of law made a comment recently which it seems did not sit well with the government and had to resign after only three years! The law society some time ago comment on a school boy arrested and was taken to task by the government! Where is the right to comment fairly without being threatened indirectly it seems!?
31/1/24, 6:12 pm - +Rama: We have senior counsels with vast experience for what!?
31/1/24, 6:21 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
31/1/24, 6:21 pm - +Smiley face: Legal Jargon Time?
To quote Article 3 of the ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights. It says, "we (human) have a Red light against our being tortured or our being subjected to inhumane or degrading treatment"... in Article 10, "we have an Amber light right to freedom of expression"....unless it is necessary to do so for various reasons set out in the Article.
If there are needs to extract information from a terrorist.... that's the distinction between Red light and Amber light rights!
What is our constitution says comparing the ECHR standing?
31/1/24, 6:34 pm - +Rama: Are we terrorist or simply to be intimidated into submission! ?
31/1/24, 6:35 pm - +Smiley face: Perhaps, cases of non terror related....it should be Amber light rights, though that's according to ECHR !
31/1/24, 6:36 pm - +Rama: Beware of cross examination on the interpretation!
31/1/24, 6:36 pm - +Smiley face: The law is non presumptuous....
31/1/24, 6:36 pm - +Smiley face: Due process and the test of reasonableness...
31/1/24, 6:37 pm - +Rama: Due process is grey!
31/1/24, 6:37 pm - +Rama: Due process is costly emotionally, psychologically and financially!
31/1/24, 6:38 pm - +Smiley face: It's for the defense and the proposition to make an unique case out of it especially if there are no precedent cases to fall upon.
31/1/24, 6:39 pm - +Rama: Being held without trial is another torture!
31/1/24, 6:40 pm - +Smiley face: In between the red and amber!
One should look into the circumstances .
31/1/24, 6:41 pm - +Rama: Not in this country!
31/1/24, 6:42 pm - +Smiley face: With this SEPP, perhaps the judiciary may have to relook at the entirety from a legal and philosophical view
31/1/24, 6:43 pm - +Rama: With no interference!
31/1/24, 6:44 pm - +Smiley face: In the spirit of justice and equality.
31/1/24, 6:44 pm - +Rama: I am not hopeful!
31/1/24, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
31/1/24, 6:46 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
31/1/24, 6:47 pm - +Smiley face: Ethicist, legal scholars, international judges, senior lawyers, rep from various civic societies so on...a broad based expert team
31/1/24, 6:49 pm - +Rama: Social services professionals along with family services. Suitable Ngo/Vwo.
31/1/24, 6:51 pm - +Smiley face: Plus Psychiatrists and Criminal Psychologist
31/1/24, 6:51 pm - +Rama: Yes
31/1/24, 6:51 pm - +Smiley face: Plus Min Law, MHA
31/1/24, 6:53 pm - +Rama: Duly elected MP from the political divide who are trained lawyers themselves
31/1/24, 6:55 pm - +Smiley face: Yes.
31/1/24, 6:56 pm - +Rama: GPC are useless!
31/1/24, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 31 January, 2023
"Sanity and Proofing Beyond All Doubts"
"In the case of mentally disabled individuals who committed unintentional crimes of harm or hate or even horror proven to be mentally unsound and thereafter sentenced by court may find themselves harder to reunite and integrate back to one's home and loved ones, community and society at large.
Nothing profound, the proposed stricter measures perhaps is to ensure the overall public safety and at the same consideration all questionable spectrum of mental disorders may continue to haunt a person for a longer period of time or in cases over a lifetime of mental instability even with medical interventions.
There are Psychiatric evidences to substantiate when mentally unstable patients encountering past experiences (unconscious) in present moment (un-conscious) may trigger them to commit illogical acts (fantasy vs reality) upon other innocence strangers at random or in a sequential momentum triggering undesirable social actions, once again, similar to previous convictions."
- - anonymity
Fantasy and or Reality?
"Disorders: ADHA, anxiety, behavioral & emotional, bipolar, eating, dissociation, obsessive-compulsive, paranoid, PTSD, psychosis, schizophrenia."
- - anonymity
Controlling your Body & thinking Faster?
How to send a signal and command your stomach to digest slower and optimise the process of oxygen and CO2? How about instructing your heart to pump according to your activity whether is walking, sitting or exercising at various intensity? And to act and react under highly stressed conditions such as a crisis or in an examination?
If the Human brain are fully of neurons and wired up, so where are the nanochips to synchronise all sensorimotor functions of a body (like a bot)?
How to comprehend and MAPPING the complexity of the inner body specific and interrelated functions from the head to the toes? It's more than the flow of fluid, blood, and the expell of toxics like the posture of a yin-yang balance. (superoptimise)
Finally, how to avoid pitfalls such as the temptations of commiting crime of all kinds from the petty ones to the pretty serious ones?
Reality?
Road accidents that caused severe damages or death. Part of the preliminary Police investigations is to dig into Both victim and driver mental health to disprove any foul play or existing mental disorders or intentional suicidal behavior. Are there needs to assess a person's psychology of personality and behavioral under clinical testing to prove sanity of the person under arrest? Are there past and or present traces of prescribed psychotic drugs, drugs overdose or drugs abused? All of these knowns and unknowns will form the bulk of legal challenges to the defense and the prosecution.
Most countries would disallowed people with criminal records access to their countries. Given the fact of migrations, would it not be prudent to check the status of foreign individuals seeking entry to a country; firstly to have a clean record, secondly, a clean bill of health (including mental) and thirdly, the means to survive ( proven skills & money)?
Back to the Future?
In 1919 Karl Jung famously wrote a paper entitled "On the Problem of Psychogenesis in Mental Disease" and twenty years later followed by the second paper "On the Psychogenesis of Schizophrenia". The two papers combined in explaining the unconscious mental activity and the personal and collective unconscious of mental patients. Retrospective, a breakthrough (to some extend controversial) in the early years of understanding the human psychology, the association experiments, psychoanalysis, and the science of mental health.
Jung agreed with Freud on the theory of Repression that explained the reasons of unconscious as unconscious, simply to say the conscious experience proving unconscious and causing conflicts was repressed thus became unconscious. Whether it was dream or manifestation of abnormality; thus proving consciousness had it not repressed would have remained conscious. For Jung who strongly believed that the unconscious mind acted autonomously means that the motivated conscious mind acted independently.
In Carl Gustav Jung's final words, the future of analytical Psychology...one is overwhelmed by new impressions and new possibilities.. the future generation has the advantage of a clearer than incomplete picture... and one now knows what must be known if one is to explore the newly discovered territory. (Carl Gustav Jung, 26/7/1875 - 6/6/1961)
Are there existing medicines to balance the brain unknown deficiency from the basic of Vitamin D to more sophisticated uplifting psychotic drugs just to tame the brain? Perhaps, neuroscientists will have to dig deeper into the composite and the chemistry of our brain to intuitively prescribe countermeasures to fight the future of the ever growing and newfound mental disorders. And balancing is one cure to any human diseases.
Verdict?
What if its the clash of fantasy and reality in the human mind? And for Jung and Freud, perhaps, both would undisputedly agreed to this imaginary theory of the wonderful brain!
Importantly, at the end of the day, all we want is a sane, safe and stable Singapore!
Afterwords:
Legal Jargon Time?
To quote Article 3 of the ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights. It says, "we (human) have a Red light against our being tortured or our being subjected to inhumane or degrading treatment"... in Article 10, "we have an Amber light right to freedom of expression"....unless it is necessary to do so for various reasons set out in the Article.
If there are needs to extract information from a terrorist.... that's the distinction between Red light and Amber light rights!
What is our constitution says comparing the ECHR standing or IHR, or the UNHR?
- - in progress - -
31/1/24, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
31/1/24, 7:01 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
=====
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