REACH 528 - What are your views on DPM Lawrence Wong’s comments on the need to uphold the Government’s standards of integrity, incorruptibility, and propriety?
(SK)
19 Jan 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
19/1/24, 10:33 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
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19/1/24, 10:35 am - +REACH: 📢 *Topic 📢*
Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong said that the Government will "continue to do everything we can to uphold the highest standards of integrity, incorruptibility and propriety. That’s how we maintain the trust that Singaporeans have placed in us,” he told journalists on Jan 18. He added that the Govt's stance on corruption is non-negotiable and part of its DNA.
DPM's remarks came hours after former transport minister Iswaran was handed 27 charges in court - two counts of corruption, 24 counts of obtaining items from someone he had business dealings with as a public servant, and one of obstructing the course of justice.
💬 *What are your views on DPM Lawrence Wong’s comments on the need to uphold the Government’s standards of integrity, incorruptibility, and propriety?*
When asked, DPM Wong said the case would have “no impact” on succession and leadership transition, mentioning that the plan remains on track for its leadership transition to take place.
*_📌Response to Iswaran’s Case_*
On how the case would affect the plans on when to call the general election, DPM Wong said the Government’s focus is to continue and press on with its work, and redouble its efforts to improve the lives of Singaporeans.
DPM Wong, who is also Minister for Finance, said the investigations into Mr Iswaran were initiated by the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (CPIB), and since the Government has pursued the matter “decisively and proactively”.
Once CPIB completed its investigations and the public prosecutor assessed the findings independently, they decided to proceed with charges against Mr Iswaran, said DPM Wong.
📌 *_Upholding the Code of Conduct for Ministers_*
On the Code of Conduct for Ministers, DPM Wong said that the Code, which has been in place since 1954, is “not static” and continues to be updated.
“We will continue to review and update the Code, taking into account the experiences and learnings from this incident,” he said.
When asked whether the Government will tighten the process for political office holders to receive or reject gifts, DPM Wong noted that a code of conduct for Ministers is already in place.
For example, Ministers should not receive gifts that place them under obligation or in a position of conflict of interest.
“But I should also say when we look at our system in Singapore, it’s a system where we do our best to try and prevent and deter corruption. It doesn’t mean there will be no corruption,” said DPM Wong.
He also acknowledged that there will be many civil servants who are disappointed, shocked and saddened by the case, including those who have worked directly with Mr Iswaran.
“But I hope the civil servants will also see that what has transpired is the determination of the PAP Government to keep our system free from corruption,” he said.
👉 https://str.sg/wiUXe
👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/iswaran-corruption-case-affect-pap-lawrence-wong-general-election-4056481
19/1/24, 10:36 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group
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19/1/24, 10:44 am - +Frankie Wee: Mr Iswaran has long served govt for 30 years and his salary is much higher he must know that policy is uphold integrity and show public parliament.
However he showed up court and not wearing white part of member pap and he wanted to clearly his name focus on his own accordingly.
It’s biggest sadness abd disappointment on his resignation under circumstances <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 10:48 am - +Rama: Not moved as past corruption cases leaves much to doubt!
19/1/24, 10:51 am - +Frankie Wee: Story different from Mr K. Shanmugam and Mr Vivian Balakrishnan bought rental out house good class bungalow. They use own amount to pay.
19/1/24, 10:51 am - +Rama: No issue on his turn out as no longer in politics!
19/1/24, 10:52 am - +Rama: Another grey area of suspicion!
19/1/24, 10:53 am - +Frankie Wee: What is uphold integrity in policy matters all minster has salary earn and commission
19/1/24, 10:53 am - +Frankie Wee: Buy in and buy out
19/1/24, 10:55 am - +Frankie Wee: I think what that mean uphold integrity is a republic and we know what govt use this amount money spent for or investment.
19/1/24, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: Singapore has history arrested by CPIB arrested
19/1/24, 10:59 am - +Frankie Wee: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/BBLiem8dgwnaZxYq/?
19/1/24, 11:08 am - +Frankie Wee: Then I know
19/1/24, 11:08 am - +Frankie Wee: https://knowledge.csc.gov.sg/ethos-issue-19/integrity-fundamentals-for-singapores-governance-success/
19/1/24, 11:18 am - +Frankie Wee: What if were him.
Buy in
I would bought iPhone 15 pro max $2.5k
I would love to buy new car BMW M350i $300k
I would love to buy Sentosa cover apartment $10m
Nothing is against me corruption
Buy out
I gift my daughter for wedding cost $10m budget
I treat my friend for favour $500k
I sponsor to my clients $100k
Nothing is against me corruption <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 11:19 am - +Rama: <Media omitted>
19/1/24, 11:23 am - +Frankie Wee: Also I can rental out at GCB
19/1/24, 11:26 am - +Frankie Wee: Uphold integrity is internal governance and accountability for member whom owned stated must provide and not use public spent
Is it right??? Huh I am not smart enough
19/1/24, 11:27 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: the issue is not using own money to pay. the issue is the rental price that they got, how they obtained the rental information. Mr KS is the minister in charge of the dept that sets and accepts the rental prices. that dept also does repairs.
19/1/24, 11:28 am - +Frankie Wee: U must know the meant uphold integrity
19/1/24, 11:28 am - +Frankie Wee: Govt uphold integrity can use spent own money accordingly
19/1/24, 11:28 am - +Timothy Low: If a public servant who earned so much can still be tempted to be bribed with such a small amount of money (not as if he cannot afford it himself), it shatters to think how those lower ranked public servants will be concerned by his actions
19/1/24, 11:30 am - +Frankie Wee: Mr Ong is a boss setup idea F1 project did he bribe Mr Iswaran??? That’s project without approval huh… I am not enough smart
19/1/24, 11:30 am - +Rama: So, no need for further salary package increase as millionaire politicians can still be corrupted so what's needed is a Downward salary revision.
19/1/24, 11:31 am - +Rama: Grey area at the moment.
19/1/24, 11:31 am - +Timothy Low: Alternatively continue to increase salary package so that there is no need for corruption anymore?
19/1/24, 11:32 am - +Rama: No track record that it helps!
19/1/24, 11:33 am - +Sh Koh: Probably best way is a good CPIB mechanism. Good salary is not a solution.
19/1/24, 11:33 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: i support what the current gov is doing. try their very best to find good honest people; which is never going to be 100%. When integrity issues are found, do a thorough investigation and take the necessary actions quickly even though it is painful. We also hope that the investigating dept is also run properly. Even then it's not 100% but it's the best under the circumstances.
19/1/24, 11:34 am - +Bhavani: Money has no worth when there is environmental degradation all over the world and climate change causing terrible natural disasters. Money cannot repair when forests are already lost and we can never see them again.
19/1/24, 11:35 am - +Rama: Agree but with actual prosecution and conviction!
19/1/24, 11:35 am - +Rama: Greenery don't put food on the table.
19/1/24, 11:36 am - +Bhavani: When we lose greenery we also lose food
19/1/24, 11:36 am - +Bhavani: Not only we, but animals too!
19/1/24, 11:37 am - +Rama: More food and greenery don't grow a sovereign economy
19/1/24, 11:37 am - +Rama: Alternate your food choices.
19/1/24, 11:37 am - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Good salary does not necessarily ensure no corruption.
2. But good salary will ensure the brightest brain go into the civil service and the government.
3. Else if no bright brain go to civil service and the government but mediocre ones - Singapore will be in deep trouble.
4. Singapore won't be a trade hub, a financial hub, one of the highest sovereign wealth, an IT hub, a manufacturing hub, and many hubs...
19/1/24, 11:38 am - +Rama: Agree
19/1/24, 11:38 am - +Bhavani: Could you clarify what you mean by a sovereign economy as I don't understand the term
19/1/24, 11:39 am - +Rama: A sovereign nation.
19/1/24, 11:40 am - +Frankie Wee: Four condominium units at luxury developments Nassim Jade and Scotts 28, which are HPL properties, were bought in the names of Mr Lee Kuan Yew and Mr Lee Hsien Loong.
The matter was discussed in parliament and both ministers were cleared. It was determined that the purchases were above board and that the discounts – of 5 per cent to 12 per cent – were given to early birds.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ong-beng-seng-agc-decision-cpib-investigations-4056511
19/1/24, 11:40 am - ☸️ Danny 心:
5. Despite the current high salary offer by the government, the civil services are still losing top talents to the private sector - despite promotion and salary revision - because civil services pay cannot match up with salaries offered by wealthy MNCs. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 11:47 am - +Bhavani: A sovereign nation needs to protect its own greenery so food, shade and health can be ensured
19/1/24, 11:47 am - +Bhavani: Not just for humans but its animals too!
19/1/24, 11:48 am - +Rama: You need to draw up a budget for each ministry for the country you are intending to run. Please show a balance approach across all concerns.
19/1/24, 11:49 am - +Bhavani: Hi this is an argument that has been made for many many years. The truth is one should be willing to work for the nation for its own sake.
19/1/24, 11:51 am - +Bhavani: Not for monetary returns!
19/1/24, 11:52 am - +Rama: Our stable government of 58 years has been adjusting continuously towards a green economy.
19/1/24, 11:52 am - +Bhavani: The nation is worth more than money!
19/1/24, 11:53 am - +Rama: The foresight is well known by our leaders.
19/1/24, 11:54 am - ☸️ Danny 心:
6. Imagine there are no top brains in the civil services and the government:-
a. Will we wrangle ourselves free from water supply depending on the mercy of our neighbour eg. Coming out with desalination water, recycle newwater?
b. Ships bypass our ports if we don't have JV industrial parks and Eco city projects with China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Malaysia, etc. Transhipment, fuel bunkers, MRO etc.
Digital Economy etc.
All these are concepts coin by the brain of our top Ministers and the civil services.
d. Our top talents in Defence and Home Team to make our defence strong, nimble and effective deterrence to make Singapore safe.
A credible defence engineering industry and R&D to make our defence technologies at the forefront.
e. Sustainability food to ensure our food safety - with top talents in PhD, degree holders in food R&D - the like of water supply security.
f. Green energy sustainability - eg. Lng, solar energy, hydrogen gas, nuclear energy - eg. Modular nuclear reactor, nuclear fusion etc.
g. IT R&D in AI, machine learning, Generative AI, cybersecurity, Mobile Apps development, cloud computing, telecommunications etc.
There are so many areas that need our brightest brain in the government and civil services.
If don't pay good salaries in the civil services and the government - Singapore will be in deep trouble.
19/1/24, 11:54 am - +Bhavani: Yes I do agree it has been transitioning towards a green economy but this is not enough as people are worried about money all the time. People need to worry about greenery.
19/1/24, 11:54 am - +Rama: It never was!
19/1/24, 11:54 am - +Mac: <Media omitted>
19/1/24, 11:55 am - +Bhavani: I am just saying generally that a sovereign nation must not worry about monetary returns. I am not pointing out any government.
19/1/24, 11:57 am - +Rama: We look at how our country is doing and comment on the adjustments made along the way. International observers has given our government much accolades for achieving and implementing towards sustainability. So, being generic is pointless.
19/1/24, 11:58 am - ☸️ Danny 心:
Look at other countries even very developed and wealthy countries.
Their government have problems recruiting top talents into the civil services and the government.
Even despite their enormous wealth, their economy is facing many structural problems that Singapore has avoided because we have top brains in the government and the civil services.
Eg. Crumbling infrastructure, overbuilt houses, enormous debt, pension unable to give out to retirees and in debt, widespread corruption, etc. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 11:59 am - +Rama: Exactly!
19/1/24, 11:59 am - +Jimmy Chew: Embrace both generic and speciality
19/1/24, 12:00 pm - +Bhavani: my opinions are as valid as yours as everyone has a right to their opinion
19/1/24, 12:00 pm - +Rama: Adapt and adjust when feasible for local implementation.
19/1/24, 12:02 pm - +Rama: Too many broad comments with no explanation why is useful for Singapore.
19/1/24, 12:02 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And appealing for top talents to be of high moral values and forgo high pay to join the civil services and the government - for the sake of serving people is a fallacy and a fairy tale.
It won't work in this mundane world.
Because if they have empty stomach, unable to feed themselves and their families members & don't expect top talents to uphold the high moral ground - they will just move to the private sector - and Singapore as a little red dot will collapse.
19/1/24, 12:03 pm - +Jimmy Chew: It's conversations as long as not bribes hahahaha
19/1/24, 12:03 pm - +Bhavani: Please don't judge. government will judge for itself
19/1/24, 12:03 pm - +Rama: Danny's comments holds water as it explains somehow where Singapore is heading.
19/1/24, 12:03 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 12:04 pm - +Rama: To call out is necessary.
19/1/24, 12:04 pm - +Bhavani: There is no need to call out when my opinion is as valid as yours
19/1/24, 12:05 pm - +Bhavani: You are calling out just for the sake of calling out
19/1/24, 12:05 pm - +Rama: You need to be practical in voicing your opinion.
19/1/24, 12:05 pm - +Bhavani: I am being practical.
19/1/24, 12:06 pm - +Rama: I beg to differ
19/1/24, 12:06 pm - +Bhavani: I also beg to differ
19/1/24, 12:06 pm - +Rama: Hope to sew your comments become reality.
19/1/24, 12:06 pm - +Rama: See*
19/1/24, 12:07 pm - +Bhavani: Look I am not here to argue with you here. Each and every time you keep arguing not letting me voice my views <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:07 pm - +Bhavani: As I have said so many times this is not an arguing platform
19/1/24, 12:08 pm - +Bhavani: Government has allowed us to provide feedback here so my feedback is as valid as yours <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:09 pm - +Rama: Anyone stopping you!?
19/1/24, 12:09 pm - +Bhavani: So don't keep putting my views down
19/1/24, 12:09 pm - +Rama: Comments without substance needs to be called out
19/1/24, 12:09 pm - +Bhavani: By putting my views down, it's like you are trying to stop me from airing my views
19/1/24, 12:10 pm - +Rama: Only the government can do that
19/1/24, 12:10 pm - +Bhavani: It is your comments that have no substance
19/1/24, 12:10 pm - +Bhavani: Then stop putting me down
19/1/24, 12:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore nation is human being and mindful of money is everything
19/1/24, 12:11 pm - +Rama: You need to be practical in your approach
19/1/24, 12:11 pm - +Rama: Definitely
19/1/24, 12:11 pm - +Bhavani: How can you say my comments have no substance? Let the government tell me that
19/1/24, 12:12 pm - +Frankie Wee: Every time appear the news govt talking about money investment or spent on project cost
19/1/24, 12:12 pm - +Rama: Have they!?
19/1/24, 12:12 pm - +Frankie Wee: But nation is our human
19/1/24, 12:12 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 12:13 pm - +Bhavani: the government allows feedback they have not told me my comments have no substance <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: The reason why Mr Iswaran failed his own accordingly
19/1/24, 12:13 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore government and civil services is the smallest and nimble as compared to many countries.
This is to ensure they recruit top brains in the government and civil services - but keep the cost low - though paying good salaries to keep widespread corruption out and to ensure top talents will also make some monetary sacrifices not to join the private sectors but remain in the government.
So Singaporeans have to be careful - not to pretend to stand on high moral ground - and press down the salaries of political holders and the civil services.
Because the moment we make this big mistake - Singapore as a little red dot will vanish in no time - if top talents leave the government but helm by mediocre people in the government. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: Buy in and buy out no different
19/1/24, 12:18 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore consistently score the highest in the global nation competitiveness beating many superpowers and big developed countries - precisely we have the best government and the best infrastructure, well governed country as compared to the rest of the country in the world.
If gullible Singaporeans are to rock this pillar - Singapore will fall - and we as a whole stop to exist - and swallow by other big powers.
Just remember that. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:20 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
19/1/24, 12:23 pm - +Rama: Possibly
19/1/24, 12:23 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore is the 3rd richest country in the world.
Singapore GDP per capita PPP is the highest in Asia.
And yes, Singapore wealth - GDP per capita PPP has surpass Switzerland in 5th place.
The government say it, and has delivered.
Precisely because Singapore government and civil services are helm by top brains and top talents because Singapore pay well for their services.
19/1/24, 12:24 pm - +Rama: Possibly no chance of being fruitful!?
19/1/24, 12:24 pm - +Bhavani: I said can you stop putting me down?
19/1/24, 12:24 pm - +Rama: Great achievement for a small nation in such a short span of time
19/1/24, 12:25 pm - +Bhavani: This message was deleted
19/1/24, 12:25 pm - +Bhavani: Do I make unkind comments when u comment?
19/1/24, 12:26 pm - +Bhavani: Stop personalising your verbal attacks!
19/1/24, 12:27 pm - +Rama: Comments can be called into question as part of dialogue
19/1/24, 12:28 pm - +Bhavani: I am providing feedback not for any personal gain or anything
19/1/24, 12:28 pm - +Rama: Don't see it that way
19/1/24, 12:28 pm - +Rama: Likewise
19/1/24, 12:28 pm - +Bhavani: You cannot call it into question. Only the government has the right to do so!
19/1/24, 12:29 pm - +Rama: This is where you have a lot to learn.
19/1/24, 12:29 pm - +Bhavani: When you keep targeting my comments, then how can I see it any other way?
19/1/24, 12:29 pm - +Bhavani: You are the one who must learn to respect other people's views
19/1/24, 12:29 pm - +Rama: Try to be specific and practical.
19/1/24, 12:30 pm - +Bhavani: Please stop giving me advice as if you are a government official <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:30 pm - +Rama: You are getting it
19/1/24, 12:30 pm - +Rama: None of us here are
19/1/24, 12:30 pm - +Bhavani: Then stop advising me
19/1/24, 12:31 pm - +Rama: Commenting only
19/1/24, 12:31 pm - +Bhavani: You are always targeting my comments
19/1/24, 12:31 pm - +Bhavani: I base my feedback on valid media news
19/1/24, 12:32 pm - +Rama: Quote your reliable sources
19/1/24, 12:32 pm - +Bhavani: Sure I'll do that
19/1/24, 12:32 pm - +Rama: It currently leaves room for doubt
19/1/24, 12:32 pm - +Rama: Thank you
19/1/24, 12:33 pm - +Bhavani: 👍
19/1/24, 12:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
This is precisely a topic that will make LKY stand up from his coffin even if lowered - to dress down any gullible Singaporeans who suggest this suicidal notion - because it is an existential threat to all Singaporeans - a sure way to send Singapore into history - if we rock this pillar that ensure our survival, our continual existence and our prosperity.
19/1/24, 12:40 pm - +Rama: Totally agree!
19/1/24, 12:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And if people really think that paying $1 million to a Minister is a big deal, Singapore CEOs are fetching more than $10 million every year.
If Minister didn't sacrifice monetary benefits to serve Singapore, the $1 million salary is no big deal.
In fact, the $190,000 MP allowance is also no big deal.
The salary pay to middle level managers are more than that.
19/1/24, 12:49 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
If we don't pay good fair salaries to ministers, and civil servants, we will definitely be paying for corruption. I rather choose the former.
Then, it is the intricate execution to ensure performance and a fair incorruptable system.
19/1/24, 12:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Uphold integrity
19/1/24, 12:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: The way what they did
19/1/24, 12:51 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
How much is CEO paid in Singapore.
https://vulcanpost.com/837294/million-dollar-club-singapores-highest-earning-ceos/
19/1/24, 12:53 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
See how much private sector pay for their CEOs?
10 times more than the Ministers.
If no personal sacrifice by the office holders - they will rather join the private sectors - then Singapore will be doom. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 12:53 pm - +Frankie Wee: Government ministers all must have uphold integrity
CEO or director or business are free
19/1/24, 12:53 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🤣
19/1/24, 12:55 pm - +Rama: Bear in mind, MP are part time with multiple side income! Minister are allowed side income on the international stage. So, any wage increase is not justified!
19/1/24, 12:55 pm - +Rama: Don't forget president too!
19/1/24, 12:55 pm - +Frankie Wee: All minister non-smokers
19/1/24, 12:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: CEO or director some have smoke or gamble
19/1/24, 12:56 pm - +Rama: Sure non drinkers too!?
19/1/24, 12:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Minister must come clean and show public honesty
19/1/24, 12:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes
19/1/24, 12:56 pm - +Rama: Not likely! Only declare to PM+
19/1/24, 12:57 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hard to see
19/1/24, 12:57 pm - +Frankie Wee: True colour we never know
19/1/24, 12:57 pm - +Rama: Exactly
19/1/24, 12:57 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 12:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: LHL this year will step down and retire
19/1/24, 12:58 pm - +Rama: Finally!
19/1/24, 1:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think should have
19/1/24, 1:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Only finest winery expensive once drink in occasional
19/1/24, 1:03 pm - +Jimmy Chew: The bedrock of any good governance or leadership integrity. Even warren buffet talks about it
19/1/24, 1:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Most are non smoker in MP
19/1/24, 1:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Warren buffet is billionaire
19/1/24, 1:05 pm - +Rama: Our government integrity is clouded at times!
19/1/24, 1:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mr K.Shanmugam has luxury watches which is cost more than $300k
19/1/24, 1:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: All Minister is internal own spent
Why he rental out GCB house 🤔
19/1/24, 1:08 pm - +Rama: Possibly bought from his days as a SC.
19/1/24, 1:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Every time I see him in parliament and look at hand’s watch
19/1/24, 1:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: One day he lost money he had no worry everything is go for pawn and save himself rather than bankruptcy
19/1/24, 1:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Uphold integrity must have good deed to republic at cost all time
19/1/24, 1:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Make it pay tax everyday
19/1/24, 1:11 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 1:11 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 1:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: Anyone taken vaccine BBX 1.5 covid-19?
19/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: This year
19/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Rama: Not yet
19/1/24, 1:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: I had take one time vaccine then again another appointment mean I have to take 2nd time
19/1/24, 1:36 pm - +Rama: Hugh!?
19/1/24, 1:36 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t know and seek anyone advise here
19/1/24, 1:42 pm - +Christmas: huh i thot salary very high already and precisely to prevent corruption?
19/1/24, 1:44 pm - +Christmas: #2 is already the problem. so are we attracting people because they really want to serve? or because money is good?
19/1/24, 1:44 pm - +Rama: More likely the perks!?
19/1/24, 1:45 pm - +Christmas: money is only one factor. there are many other factors to take into account - interest, work culture, etc.
19/1/24, 1:46 pm - +Timothy Low: There is a Chinese saying called 高薪养廉, seems like the salary not high enough to keep himself corruption free ah
19/1/24, 1:46 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Contrary to what many people believe, salary in the government is barely competitive and not that high - if we are talking about top talents.
2. MNCs pay much higher - and some top talents in civil services move to the private sectors - and the government lose precious talents.
3. Contrary to what many people thought, alot of top talents in civil services stay in the government involve sacrifice in monetary benefits - because they like the jobs they are doing.
19/1/24, 1:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
4. I am not saying paying even higher salary will prevent corruption.
5. But salaries must be barely competitive - to stop big outflow of talents from the public sector to the private sectors.
19/1/24, 1:48 pm - +Rama: Remember the sacrifice of post independence 1965 first cabinet. Money is not everything when doing public ser!
19/1/24, 1:49 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
6. Ultimately, integrity, moral values - must be grounded in civil services - not to be entice by greed and take pride in what they do in the public sector.
19/1/24, 1:49 pm - +Rama: Public service is a sacrifice not a Privelege
19/1/24, 1:57 pm - +Terrie Wong: It is not quite a privilege when you find that you are unable to send your talented children overseas for further education (or medical treatments not available here)
Eg Case of EW Barker LKY remarked on.
19/1/24, 2:00 pm - +Rama: Go via scholarship or bond. Not many citizens already don't have the possibility too.
19/1/24, 2:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Let me quote an experience.
2. In civil services, a person was promoted 3 times, and the salaries was revised 3 times.
He has contributed in many projects and many Singaporeans public and civil services are currently still using the systems he has contributed.
3. However due to push and pull factors, he went to the private sectors.
The day he retire from the private sectors, his income is 70.5% more than his salaries in public sector.
8. So if people still say government salaries are so high - then should benchmark against private sectors that are paying for top talents.
It is actually peanut.
9. So don't jump to the conclusion that government sector salaries are very high - based on what we pay to top brains. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 2:11 pm - +Rama: Citizens too are earning peanuts and making sacrifices!
19/1/24, 2:12 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
10. Only after retirement, he continues to provide his service in public service on a voluntary basis without pay - when he has sufficient income to retire comfortably and feed his family members.
11. So I hope Singaporeans don't be fool by taking the high moral ground - that low pay, self sacrifice in the public sector will serve us well.
12. It can kill everyone of us - out of existence.
19/1/24, 2:13 pm - +Rama: With side hustle income, still need salary increase!?
19/1/24, 2:13 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If citizens can produce works that are highly valued will not be pay peanut in private sectors.
I can guarantee you.
19/1/24, 2:17 pm - +Rama: Be equal with the electorate
19/1/24, 2:18 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
It is market force.
Companies will pay a work well if he bring big profit to the company.
It is very fair.
19/1/24, 2:23 pm - +Rama: If a minister earning sgd1.2M yearly cannot face a ceo earning sgd12M, that person is in not for sacrifice Privelege but money!
19/1/24, 2:30 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic 📢*
19/1/24, 2:31 pm - +Rama: Same old story with no depth!
19/1/24, 2:32 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
A wise saying goes like this - everyone has a price.
Greed varies from person to person, and forms.
It could be money, it could be power etc.
My relative who is staying in a neighbouring country said during covid "gov officers" can come to the shop 2-3 times a day and find reasons to impose fines on their small business.
Fundamentals? These officers earn too little to even make ends meet.
When we pay good fair salaries, we would have stop the majority. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 2:33 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily wrong but subjective.
19/1/24, 2:37 pm - +Japanese words: Definitely agree.. pay fair we stop such nonsense.
But as government is the biggest employer in Singapore. Money comes from the people. If we pay them more, more money has to come from somewhere. Money don’t comes from thin air.
19/1/24, 2:37 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. A big global semiconductor fab face problems in its IT infrastructure in US.
Its IT HQ is in Singapore and the fab operations need to run 24 hours globally with data centre in Singapore.
There is a need to revamp the entire IT infrastructure globally that cross Europe, US and Asia Pacific (Singapore, Japan and Taiwan) but lack experienced IT professional that can perform such scale.
So that MNC pay relative high for an ex civil servant that have such experience to do the job in 6 months.
That ex civil servant manage the global IT infrastructure revamp within 3 months, within budget with no downtime and global manufacturing can run 24 hours during the IT infrastructure upgrade and at the same time implement a 24 hours security operation centre 24 hours monitoring the cybersecurity health of all its global plants without hiccup.
This is the high pay that global MNC willing to pay for the ex civil servant.
It is market force - the value service that a talent offer and how much employer willing to pay. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 2:38 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily true
19/1/24, 2:38 pm - +Japanese words: Paying high in government we might get more talent. But in return companies find it hard to hire talent.
19/1/24, 2:39 pm - +Japanese words: When you pay so much better… you see the SME a lot struggling to hire local grad. Business hard to evolve
19/1/24, 2:39 pm - +Rama: Possibly
19/1/24, 2:40 pm - +Rama: Government intervention for local priority hiring is tricky.
19/1/24, 2:40 pm - +Japanese words: Government has to pay slightly lower than MNC to ensure the balance.
The stability is for sure better and not such thing as mass firing… so far. The give and take being in government is to serve not just to earn better.
19/1/24, 2:41 pm - +Japanese words: If not who wants to work in private similar to Dubai. When government pays so well.. they draw all the talent away from companies
19/1/24, 2:43 pm - +Rama: Up to a point.
19/1/24, 2:47 pm - +Japanese words: That’s what I get from friend working in Saudi companies.
They perform so well that government ask them to join from their private wing 🤣
19/1/24, 2:50 pm - +Rama: Something like our GLC!?
19/1/24, 2:51 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If there are disruption to the 24 hours to the global fab operations, the loss to the MNC run into hundred of millions of dollars if not billions.
And if patent are stolen through cyber security breach, the loss run into multiple billion of dollars.
Paying 5 figures to that IT consultant is only peanuts.
So who say the market is not fair to pay talents?
It is whether the person is deserving of the pay or not. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 2:55 pm - +Japanese words: I am just saying being in government is part service to the people. Is not always dollars and cents.
The sacrifice they made, being a public figure is not easy. But don’t meant that we will have to pay for all the sacrifices they made.
The monetary value is up to a certain stage, in the end is still character.
19/1/24, 2:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
This I agree.
No dispute with this viewpoint.
19/1/24, 2:56 pm - +Rama: Public consultation is a must prior!
19/1/24, 2:56 pm - +Japanese words: I am pretty sure most of our ex minister are doing pretty well. Even after their time in service. Due to the connection they have over the years
19/1/24, 2:58 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 3:24 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And I was told that periodic IT disruption occur quite often to the global plants before the ex civil servant was engaged to revamp the IT infrastructure.
I say like that how can.
Full resiliency with cost effective solutions must be the core of the design. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 4:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic 📢*
19/1/24, 4:35 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR MORE* from you!
💬 *What are your views on DPM Lawrence Wong’s comments on the need to uphold the Government’s standards of integrity, incorruptibility, and propriety?*
Megan 😊
19/1/24, 4:49 pm - +Smiley face: 19 January, 2024
" Wrong & Right?"
"When things go wrong, is wrongdoing. When the correct thing is accomplished, is correct or there are better ways to do them? Right from wrong, wrong becoming right!"
- - anonymity
19/1/24, 5:01 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1 more comment.
Iswaran is not yet sentence unless proven guilty.
Until the court laid out all the facts - before we can ascertain whether corruption has indeed occur.
Now he is only charged based on prima facie evidence.
19/1/24, 5:02 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
But integrity and high moral in the government and civil services must be uphold at all times.
19/1/24, 5:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
19/1/24, 5:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Wow facts
19/1/24, 5:09 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
"PAP MP Christopher de Souza cleared of improper conduct as lawyer; 'extremely pleased' at being vindicated"
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/mp-deputy-speaker-christopher-de-souza-cleared-improper-professional-conduct-2222731#:~:text=PAP%20MP%20Christopher%20de%20Souza%20cleared%20of%20improper%20conduct%20as%20lawyer%3B%20%27extremely%20pleased%27%20at%20being%20vindicated
19/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Rama: I have my doubts on the interpretation
19/1/24, 5:10 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 5:14 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Just throwing a hypothesis:-
1. A big tech organise a big events, spend $1 million with hearty lunch throw in - to introduce a new tech and invite government to attend.
2. If government attend, is this corruption?
19/1/24, 5:15 pm - +Rama: No
19/1/24, 5:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: Nope
19/1/24, 5:17 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Then do we know what happen when F1 organise events for Iswaran to attend?
So we don't know the details.
Thus we cannot judge through social media.
Court must based on laws and ethics laid out by civil services - and objectively assess if indeed corruption indeed occur. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 5:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Uphold integrity must not accept big amount such party or ticket at high cost.
19/1/24, 5:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mr Iswaran should know his own political views. He should make an announcement event showed publicly
19/1/24, 5:19 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
That's why we don't know, then we cannot jump to conclusion.
Also why a Minister needs so many F1 tickets?
Is it for some purpose we don't know about?
Eg. To promote tourism by giving to foreign VIPs?
We don't know, thus we cannot pass judgement prematurely.
19/1/24, 5:20 pm - +Rama: Correct
19/1/24, 5:27 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
But based on prima facie evidence - cpib and Agc need to press charges - because on the surface level - it do look like impropriety has occurred.
Now it is up to the court to scrutinize all the facts, circumstances, hear the defense and check against the law, rules, moral ethics guidelines for civil services to determine if indeed corruption has occurred.
Only when judgement passed - then we will know indeed if corruption has taken place.
But there is also an appeal process - and until and unless the final Court determine the outcome, we cannot prejudge.
But at all times, government officials should uphold integrity and moral values without reasonable doubts - so as not to get into such uncomfortable position. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 5:32 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 5:33 pm - +Frankie Wee: Otherwise that suspect is a bribe of favour to ask for project or dealing a business in blackmail. Mr Iswaran got high salary should own use or repay to Mr Ong
19/1/24, 5:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: Now I understood what is meant for uphold integrity.
19/1/24, 5:34 pm - +Smiley face: Corporate World and Governing World?
Integrity and Propriety are the fundamental of all things.
In the earlier example of a $1.0m dinner or lunch, so long it has the clearance of a committee and is justifiable to spend it.
So what are the guidelines, rules and regulations in any of these large entity?
There must be sense and sensibility whenever money is concern because all office holders from the bottoms up are answerable to the shareholders or people.
By restricting on expenditures at times may not be smart moves especially in the pursuit of the advancement of technology or innovations.
What is a balanced approach and where are the grey areas and the Red lines?
19/1/24, 5:35 pm - +Rama: If he pleads not guilty and intends to contest all the charges, don't discount the possibility that he is genuinely innocent.
19/1/24, 5:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Another example is, why Iswaran need football tickets to see top performing soccer match that have nothing to do with F1 motor race.
To normal people, yes there are no relation.
But to a strategic person, it could be 举一反三.
You look at different things that are run successfully but of the same context - and how to transform it into motor races that attract crowd year after year.
This could be the angle some strategic people look at things. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 5:35 pm - +Smiley face: Due process...
19/1/24, 5:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mr Ong treat him what he though is not guilty either not wrongdoing
19/1/24, 5:36 pm - +Smiley face: The world of business, the dealings and the wheelings?
19/1/24, 5:36 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 5:36 pm - +Rama: Subject to interpretation
19/1/24, 5:36 pm - +Frankie Wee: Proof transactions beliefs
19/1/24, 5:37 pm - +Rama: Maybe border corruption!?
19/1/24, 5:37 pm - +Smiley face: Buy Taylor Swift tickets and give them to all your valued clients?
19/1/24, 5:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🤣
19/1/24, 5:37 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
So unless we hear from the defence, I withhold my judgement.
Unless the court find him guilty, I withhold my judgement.
19/1/24, 5:37 pm - +Rama: Good point
19/1/24, 5:37 pm - +Smiley face: Lack of judgement...a concept
19/1/24, 5:38 pm - +Rama: Lame excuse!
19/1/24, 5:38 pm - +Smiley face: Moment and momentum.... another concept.
19/1/24, 5:38 pm - +Rama: 🤷♂️
19/1/24, 5:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: What kind of minister must uphold integrity example dealing a business in event at dinner occasion who pay it? Is it govt pay or business pay?
19/1/24, 5:39 pm - +Smiley face: Looking for a sage/Saint to do it all right?
19/1/24, 5:39 pm - +Smiley face: Same goes for all office holders in the business world? Double standards?
19/1/24, 5:39 pm - +Rama: With all the guidelines and prior notification, should not happened.
19/1/24, 5:40 pm - +Smiley face: One cup cheers, followed by another liquor....in the moment of hi...?
19/1/24, 5:40 pm - +Smiley face: Not intentional?
19/1/24, 5:41 pm - +Rama: Or is it left to their PA to shoulder the blame for non due diligence!?
19/1/24, 5:42 pm - +Smiley face: Let's stay calm and united.... something is stirring...?
19/1/24, 5:42 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And if liquor throw in by business organiser to clink with VIP in a banquet, is it corruption?
19/1/24, 5:42 pm - +Rama: Yes
19/1/24, 5:43 pm - +Rama: Just refrain
19/1/24, 5:43 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
19/1/24, 5:43 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
19/1/24, 5:45 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
19/1/24, 5:45 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I only drink orange juice or soft drinks.
But when I see in TV, foreign heads do clink liquor with our leaders organised by say Bloomberg or other business organised events.
19/1/24, 5:46 pm - +Rama: Could be fake as per movie or TV!?
19/1/24, 5:46 pm - +Frankie Wee: Money wisely taxpayers
19/1/24, 5:47 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
It is true official events that come up in news.
19/1/24, 5:47 pm - +Rama: 🤷♂️
19/1/24, 5:47 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
So there are many grey areas.
Hence we cannot jump into conclusions without laying out all the facts.
19/1/24, 5:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: CHC KH pastor use this fund on behalf his wife $50m sing project and in return when auditor checking untaxed
19/1/24, 5:48 pm - +Rama: Sigh!
19/1/24, 5:48 pm - +Rama: 😳😡😖🤨🤦♂️😔🤨
19/1/24, 5:49 pm - +Smiley face: Standards or Standard Operation Procedures.
19/1/24, 5:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Touch the money in return without proposal untaxed
19/1/24, 5:49 pm - +Rama: I personally felt sentence was too short!
19/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Very fact and truth about self uphold integrity level what minister earn high salary in the world
19/1/24, 5:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes
19/1/24, 6:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic 📢*
19/1/24, 6:04 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Another thing come to mind, go for one soccer match good enough, why go so many different clubs match?
1. Eg, some clubs are more successful than others, some clubs have special crowd pullers - what can we learn from these clubs.
We have to be there to observe, ask questions, see for ourselves the intricacies - and then translate into how to make F1 successful year after year for example.
2. Then people may ask, Minister so rich, why don't pay himself.
Then a question arise, is this for F1, is it for official functions?
If yes why government officials pay?
Then should taxpayer pay? If not then if business don't pay, who pay?
So it is not so straight forward.
It is a judgement call.
But facts have to be established.
Court have to judge whether indeed corruption has occurred.
I am not saying Iswaran is definitely not guilty, I am saying we need to hear from both sides of the story, in the spirit of the law and justice - and let the court judge based on the law. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 6:05 pm - +Rama: Some clarity from potential prosecution witnesses Ong Beng Seng!?
19/1/24, 6:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
That's why we need to hear from all sides.
19/1/24, 6:06 pm - +Rama: Exactly!
19/1/24, 6:22 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Another thing:-
Like the flight on OBS private jet, if the trip is with OBS then this is just a form of tumpang.
Save taxpayers money.
Corruption?
Let court listen to all parties.
19/1/24, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
19/1/24, 6:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Also if Ong Beng Seng has the sole distribution right to F1 and no other competitors that warrant a tender.
Then if OBS don't host Iswaran, then which business will? <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 6:50 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily with OBS means okay
19/1/24, 6:51 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
So iswaran will have to book a SIA flight to go to the same place using taxpayers money?
19/1/24, 6:55 pm - +Rama: Let the facts come out in court.
19/1/24, 6:55 pm - +Rama: Hope the court case will clear the air.
19/1/24, 6:58 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
To conclude:-
I am not siding anyone here.
That iswaran is guilty or not.
I am only saying there are many grey areas.
Cpib and Agc are correct and press charges because prima facie evidence warrant it.
But it doesn't mean that iswaran is definitely guilty - without going through the due court process.
What we want from these proceedings is that, we want to uphold the integrity and moral values of the government.
At the same time, we don't want to punish a person incorrectly if indeed he is carrying out his official duties for the benefits of the nation.
But more care must be made to prevent such uncomfortable position.
However if facts indicate that corruption indeed happen, then justice must be administered. <This message was edited>
19/1/24, 6:59 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
19/1/24, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 19 January, 2024
" Wrong & Right?"
"When things go wrong, is wrongdoing. When the correct thing is accomplished, is correct or there are better ways to do them? Right from wrong, wrong becoming right. Let's stay calm and united!"
- - anonymity
Give your loved ones chances, give your neighbors chances, give your fellow colleagues chances (& from all foreign lands), give a stranger one chance, and give those who have fallen chances and those who are wrong chances too? Punish or reward?
Three human balances are 1) Physical, 2) Emotion and 3) Mental. Calmness will involve all the three things into a state of nil. Calmness is one good way to think alone and hopefully a person can see any problems clearer and a peace of mind too. Don't have to meditate if don't wish to.
It's all connected into one line and the larger humankind. Is it circumstances that caused human judgements or mistakes or more than this? See beyond the reality or face all ramifications to seek for justice? And for what causes and what will it derives?
And why so kind? Good heart will have good days...(心好有好日！)
- - in progress - -
19/1/24, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
=====
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