REACH 486 - What are your views on Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's National Day message? What more can be done to support the ageing population and improve provision of affordable housing?
(SK)
10 Aug 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
10/08/2023, 9:51 am - +REACH: *Dear contributors,*
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
10/08/2023, 9:58 am - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
In his National Day Message, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong spoke of the challenges that Singapore faces as it turns 58. PM highlighted the close bond between the Government and the people as key to Singapore navigating safely in a troubled world.
*π¬ What are your views on Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's National Day message? What more can be done to support the ageing population and improve provision of affordable housing?*
π *Public Housing*
Public housing schemes will be adjusted to keep them fair and inclusive for all, and ensure flats remain accessible and affordable for Singaporeans of all income groups.
More new HDB flats will be built in existing estates, like in Dawson. Such flats will naturally be in greater demand. Their launch prices and resale prices will reflect that.
π *Support for ageing population*
The Government is also making special efforts to adapt HDB estates and flats to serve a rapidly ageing population.
Estates will have more visible signage and designs, as well as more pedestrian-friendly zones and rest points. Community spaces will also be improved, with more active ageing centres built.
There will also be extra help for some older workers who have not built up enough Central Provident Fund (CPF) savings for retirement.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-special-bond-that-makes-singapore-exceptional-pm-lee
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/public-housing-schemes-to-be-adjusted-older-workers-to-get-help-with-cpf-retirement-savings-pm-lee
πhttps://www.pmo.gov.sg/Newsroom/National-Day-Message-2023
10/08/2023, 9:59 am - ~ REACH Phone 2 changed the group description
10/08/2023, 9:59 am - ~ REACH Phone 2 changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
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10/08/2023, 10:33 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR MORE* from you!
*π¬ What are your views on Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's National Day message? What more can be done to support the ageing population and improve provision of affordable housing?*
Megan π
10/08/2023, 10:46 am - +Anselm: If the young spends more of their CPF on housing, they’ll have lesser time to accumulate and grow their CPF, and thus have lesser cpf for retirement. Zero sum game
10/08/2023, 10:55 am - +Frankie Wee: How to balance housing affordability and CPF saving future net egg retire?
Rule HFE to approval or unapproved.
Younger start marriage at 30s
Their earn begin saving just 5 to 7 years in small amount when big amount spent HDB loan.
10/08/2023, 11:15 am - +Rama: Hdb homes must continue to be seen as appreciated in value over the years with whatever improvements and upgrades. I believe this can help monetize when considering lease buy back for the elderly.
10/08/2023, 11:16 am - +Smiley face: Unless you portion your disposal income to more than 25% to housings, then the monthly cash crunch will emerge. Thereafter, assuming this household is either single income or dual incomes; one or both incomes are stagnant for over 5 years to 10 years coupled with the rising costs of living and sudden emergency that will topple this household financial balance and further adding to the existing burden and commitments.
Will these scenarios happen?
10/08/2023, 11:17 am - +Smiley face: Assets Enhancement Concept...
10/08/2023, 11:17 am - +Rama: It can possibly happen
10/08/2023, 11:18 am - +Rama: We had ministers over the years give conflicting statements on appreciating and depreciation of hdb flats which saddens and trouble the electorate!
10/08/2023, 11:19 am - +Smiley face: Yes! Therefore, there are even more needs to advise especially our young generation to COUNT and do their MATHS before they aspire to own this and that....
A balancing act with prudence in mind! Do not over stretch this MONEY!
10/08/2023, 11:19 am - +Smiley face: Ups and Downs... that's life
10/08/2023, 11:20 am - +Rama: We need to sit down with all relevant parties to brain storm a answer for the electorate.
10/08/2023, 11:21 am - +Smiley face: Do you wish to see property developments HALF DONE OR NOT DONE AT ALL?
Buyers are the victim...in some countries!
So where is stability and how much accountability before we start the game of affordability ?
10/08/2023, 11:21 am - +Rama: Agree
10/08/2023, 11:23 am - +Smiley face: Yes, it's a sensitive issue when housing is concerned!
How to advise the people and some may misunderstand the government trying to dissuade them from owning larger flats?
Let's think of steps to explain the myst and magic of money, of debts and of retirements!
10/08/2023, 11:24 am - +Rama: Agree
10/08/2023, 11:26 am - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
10/08/2023, 11:27 am - +Smiley face: Watch it:
A property developer in HK has just dropped the bomb, aka selling the price at 30% discount of new apartments facing the harbour front!
Will HDB do the same just to afford it all?
Let's think deeper about how to play this affordability game safer; this is a big political challenge that needs to be dealt with the most sensitivity! More than marriage etc...
10/08/2023, 11:28 am - +Smiley face: China's real estate market roiled by default fears again
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/10/china-property-market-roiled-by-default-fears-country-garden-spooks-investors.html?__source=androidappshare
Bonds!
10/08/2023, 11:28 am - +Smiley face: CDL H1 profit falls 94.1% to $66.5 million on absence of divestment gains
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/cdl-h1-profit-falls-941-to-665-million-on-absence-of-divestment-gains
Balance Sheets Recession? One early Indicator of bad times is coming!
Finance costs is 10% of total Revenue and profits dropped almost 100%! Look at the Balance Sheets...
Revenue for H1 rose 83.6 per cent to $2.7 billion, from $1.5 billion a year earlier. This was due to strong revenue contributions from its property development segment, as well as revenue improvements from its hotel operations segment and investment properties.
Finance costs widened to $220.6 million from $99.5 million previously, mainly as a result of higher interest expenses and a fair value loss on financial derivatives booked in H1, as opposed to a gain registered in the previous year.
10/08/2023, 11:29 am - +Smiley face: In China, Wanda group gone, Evergrande group is gone and now is Country Garden on its way,...?
One reason that Cheung Kong sold its Kowloon harbour facing condos at 30% discount? It will affect HK property valuations and the selling prices of both the new and especially the value of the existing ones.
How will the business of mortgages react and the future interest earnings from it, the latest salvo of steep discount by Cheung Kong?
It is a new revelation of devaluation of the Systems of Property in HK.
Will these ripples hit other Asian countries?
The property market sentiments just not there all because of the impacts from the sluggishness of China's property markets.
How are the competing property developers strategies going forward?
Costs, Borrowings and Sales?
10/08/2023, 11:32 am - +Smiley face: Land sold after the 1997 handover from the British to the Chinese, SAR...the leases are 50 years for housing use except for recreational land...
SG public housing or EC or condors...are 99 years lease!
10/08/2023, 11:52 am - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
10/08/2023, 11:53 am - +Smiley face: "Helps: The highest priority given to Singaporeans who are Born in SG prior to 1923 and onwards...."
- - anonymity
10/08/2023, 12:45 pm - +Poh S Lim: Anyone has the statistics on the population of 100 years and above in Singapore? It would be interesting to know. Also, of this population how many would be without close relatives and are living alone.
If targeted assistance in “highest priority” is to be given, we need to know the numbers.
10/08/2023, 12:53 pm - +Smiley face: Agency for Ageing (AA) ?
An integrated govt agency overlooking all existential ageing issues and policies.
10/08/2023, 12:59 pm - +Rama: What's the difference from Agency for Intergrated care!?
10/08/2023, 1:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Insurance policy if they have bough IP
10/08/2023, 1:05 pm - +GLCM: With the influx of singles buying HDB, the issue of affordability is more acute. On the contrary, the bar should also not be skewed such that it attracts ppl taking advantage.
10/08/2023, 1:05 pm - +Rama: Agree
10/08/2023, 1:06 pm - +Smiley face: A robust Medisave!
Relook, rebuild the medisave as a whole; going forward the median costs of the top ten medical costs, peg against the median medisave account or average balance of the medisave accounts.
One way is to gather a new quantum to insure the under-covered members of Medisave.
10/08/2023, 1:08 pm - +Rama: Believe PM will address the issue of seniors who doesn't have enough in their cpf account which I believe will also cover medisave.
10/08/2023, 1:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: At least they don’t have mins $65k above and they need to top up cash beloved one.
10/08/2023, 1:10 pm - +Rama: Yes
10/08/2023, 1:11 pm - +Frankie Wee: Or they are choice gone and not wish carry the pain cost of living.
10/08/2023, 1:12 pm - +Smiley face: If $65k is the benchmark for medisave to be adequate for members; is it so much more that we relook at those members who fall short of this medical savings line?
Btw, the costs of medical interventions have gone up, DOD and YOY...
10/08/2023, 1:12 pm - +Smiley face: One cost of living is medical cost.
10/08/2023, 1:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: I had once in my memories of my late grandma. All relative willing help share her medical cost. But grandma says time to let gone and don’t wish to see everyone burden.
Suddenly she stop take medical herself and pass away it was sad day of old age health.
10/08/2023, 1:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: My grandma was born 1910 since she know Japan war in Singapore
She was maid servant British officer in White House.
10/08/2023, 1:21 pm - +Frankie Wee: FY we are present to future
I am sure our age reach old gold year we had much contribution enough to live on.
We thank to LKY for those years he pass away at 92
10/08/2023, 1:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.homage.sg/resources/nursing-home-singapore/
10/08/2023, 1:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: I support this will make them elderly stay happy without worrying.
And charity show will help them rising foundation.
10/08/2023, 1:38 pm - +JC: I find it sad that seniors are talked about as "issues" to be solved. What we have failed to do as a country is to foster a stronger environment that supports earlier and larger families - so that we can continue to have enough working population to support the older, retired population.
10/08/2023, 1:39 pm - +JC: We should be providing stronger and sustained incentives to larger families so people are encouraged to have more children. Give them even more priority and benefits in housing.
10/08/2023, 1:39 pm - +JC: More family leave days
10/08/2023, 1:39 pm - +JC: More educational support and grants
10/08/2023, 1:40 pm - +Redzuan: I believe it's not the monetary issue.
Manpower likely,
-who is taking care of our kids when they get old.
Not for us but for them.
π«£
10/08/2023, 1:41 pm - +JC: Otherwise we will never solve e "problem" of an ageing population.
10/08/2023, 1:41 pm - +JC: Highly subsidize IVF
10/08/2023, 1:44 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Elderly with sufficient CPF savings to retire is important. Hence the Government need to be on the toe to ensure that workplace discrimination against mature workers must not be tolerated and allowed to be carried out - so that at the official retirement age 67 or 68 years old - they will have sufficient CPF savings for retirement.
2. For those without sufficient CPF basic retirement amount, the top up will be a challenge, wonder how does and where does the Government tap the fund from to finance these elderly without overly burdening the Government coffer.
3. Providing more elderly friendly facilities is laudable as more Singaporeans are aging - and it will help elderly to live and get by more fruitfully and easily at their twilight years.
4. Notice that young couples have difficulty in balloting for the BTO flats in mature estate that are near to their parents and the price of the flats in mature estate are also pricey.
More details will be needed how to help young couples successfully ballot for BTO flats with affordable price.
10/08/2023, 1:45 pm - +~L: <Media omitted>
10/08/2023, 1:45 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ: <Media omitted>
10/08/2023, 1:46 pm - +~L: 38% increase in profits. Over $3bn in 6 months.
10/08/2023, 1:47 pm - +~L: Banking is a cartel. There is no real competition.
10/08/2023, 1:55 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Good point.
As we Seniors r moving on, we shd also be looking at our future gen.
10/08/2023, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
In his National Day Message, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong spoke of the challenges that Singapore faces as it turns 58. PM highlighted the close bond between the Government and the people as key to Singapore navigating safely in a troubled world.
*π¬ What are your views on Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's National Day message? What more can be done to support the ageing population and improve provision of affordable housing?*
π *Public Housing*
Public housing schemes will be adjusted to keep them fair and inclusive for all, and ensure flats remain accessible and affordable for Singaporeans of all income groups.
More new HDB flats will be built in existing estates, like in Dawson. Such flats will naturally be in greater demand. Their launch prices and resale prices will reflect that.
π *Support for ageing population*
The Government is also making special efforts to adapt HDB estates and flats to serve a rapidly ageing population.
Estates will have more visible signage and designs, as well as more pedestrian-friendly zones and rest points. Community spaces will also be improved, with more active ageing centres built.
There will also be extra help for some older workers who have not built up enough Central Provident Fund (CPF) savings for retirement.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-special-bond-that-makes-singapore-exceptional-pm-lee
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/public-housing-schemes-to-be-adjusted-older-workers-to-get-help-with-cpf-retirement-savings-pm-lee
πhttps://www.pmo.gov.sg/Newsroom/National-Day-Message-2023
10/08/2023, 2:14 pm - +Rama: π
10/08/2023, 2:15 pm - +Rama: Agree
10/08/2023, 2:21 pm - +Thomas: Do they have nursing homes for couple ? Else, they will be separated if they both need some nursing care
10/08/2023, 2:30 pm - +Smiley face: Should there be single or both seniors living in a flats, a few neighbors should be designated to watch and care for this seniors household. RC can assist and organise it
10/08/2023, 2:43 pm - +Redzuan: From the top it sounds like its workable... nowadays neighbours don't talk to each other.
10/08/2023, 3:01 pm - +Smiley face: Hi Redzuan,
Good observation!
Let's start to talk to one another rather than behaving like strangers in the block?
Thanks Redzuan for bringing it up!
10/08/2023, 3:02 pm - +~L: Ensure good public transportation in New estates so elderly people don't feel trapped.
10/08/2023, 3:02 pm - +~L: Have provisions for elderly who don't have wider family they can call upon. Especially regarding health care.
10/08/2023, 3:03 pm - +~L: Have learning and education centres to help elderly adapt to the new world, and even enable them to participate, or earn a supplemtary income.
10/08/2023, 3:03 pm - +Andrea: Ivf subsidies can help but the returns are still low. Couples who choose to delay having kids to build their careers likely would have the means for IVF.
Resources should instead be prioritised towards encouraging couples to get married and have kids earlier which has cascading effects including healthier pregnancies and babies. More news articles and info can be put out like the recent one on peak fertility vs career in ST (except that was only for subscribers).
Govt can also consider improving the third child priority scheme by reserving all 4/5rm/bigger new flats for them (currently only 5% of BTO / SBF flats), *and* provide housing subsidies based on how many children a family has.
10/08/2023, 3:05 pm - +~L: This is a fine line as it makes life harder for those who cannot or unable to form a family.
10/08/2023, 3:06 pm - +Rama: Yes
10/08/2023, 3:06 pm - +~L: Maybe there are reasons that people don't want to have kids, and we should think about that, rather than financial incentives and marketing tricks.
10/08/2023, 3:07 pm - +Rama: Gotong Royong spirit died long ago when kampong was demolished. Public housing has created close doors
10/08/2023, 3:07 pm - +Rama: Cost and work life balance
10/08/2023, 3:08 pm - +~L: Maybe we have created a highly competitive society where people feel they are insecure and unable to succeed, so they fall back on security over ambition.
10/08/2023, 3:10 pm - +~L: Yes
10/08/2023, 3:12 pm - +Rama: DBS Ceo Gupta recently said work life balance is baloney!
10/08/2023, 3:12 pm - +KL: Are u sure DBS have worklife balance ?
10/08/2023, 3:12 pm - +~L: ha, well he earns millions, what does he know about real life?
10/08/2023, 3:12 pm - +Rama: Seems a lot!
10/08/2023, 3:13 pm - +Smiley face: Circumstances?
1) It is always good to have someone to take care of and help either from family or relatives!
2) What about senior citizens who have no immediate family members or children working overseas?
3) And some seniors have children or relations problems?
4) Seniors staying with siblings or seniors co-live with a sibling who is also single or spouses passed on?
5) Are there some seniors who refuse all help?
So how to help them or let them live alone? Asian mindsets of face or pride or just don't know how to seek help?
10/08/2023, 3:13 pm - +Rama: Maybe not for him only!?
10/08/2023, 3:13 pm - +Rama: Valid issues
10/08/2023, 3:14 pm - +Smiley face: If the Perspective is of Western culture or the Asian hardwork mentally?
10/08/2023, 3:15 pm - +Rama: Asian hardwork mentality
10/08/2023, 3:17 pm - +Smiley face: If Asian perspective then perhaps Salami ...?
10/08/2023, 3:17 pm - +Rama: π€·♂️
10/08/2023, 3:18 pm - +Smiley face: Seriously, do people really think that by not working hard enough, salami will befall in front of you?
The world doesn't work this way or you are really a lucky chap?
10/08/2023, 3:26 pm - +Rama: Some do by gambling!
10/08/2023, 3:26 pm - +Smiley face: Baloney?
10/08/2023, 3:34 pm - +Smiley face: All BTO buyers. Stay double the MOP and receive monetary rewards of up to $50,000 into the CPF; **conditions applied...?
A better use of building resources, allowing those who need a home more than others to buy and shorten the Q-line & ratio of demand over supply. Lastly, an eco friendly way of sustainable growth of our HDB housing infrastructures to build even smarter homes of the future! (or rushing through to meet the Q...)...
10/08/2023, 3:34 pm - +Wilson Leong: This message was deleted
10/08/2023, 3:38 pm - +Rama: Exactly!
10/08/2023, 3:43 pm - +TD: He just wants his staff to OT for free. Everytime I hear The C-suites talking about treating the employees like a family, it always always means they want employees to do unpaid OT.
Pui.
10/08/2023, 3:47 pm - +~L: Do they invite them over for dinner to their houses each week, like we would family?
10/08/2023, 3:49 pm - +Rama: Agree!
10/08/2023, 3:50 pm - +Rama: No!
10/08/2023, 3:51 pm - +KL: LOL this already very kind if only think this way. This remind me of one old situation > the ex- FT boss often go to run at 5.30 PM and then off work . . but the staff work till 10 PM. Those other old ppl work OT will be say inefficient, use this opportunity to kept as record to ask them self resign if need to . LOL when ppl got maternal leave will need to work their share. 7 headcount become 4-5 headcount sometime. <This message was edited>
10/08/2023, 3:52 pm - +KL: Oops accidently share Excuse 101 : Method 3 .
10/08/2023, 3:52 pm - +KL: Very evil , not sure got karma or not. Better don't use wait got free IVF also no use. <This message was edited>
10/08/2023, 3:58 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
In his National Day Message, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong spoke of the challenges that Singapore faces as it turns 58. PM highlighted the close bond between the Government and the people as key to Singapore navigating safely in a troubled world.
*π¬ What are your views on Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's National Day message? What more can be done to support the ageing population and improve provision of affordable housing?*
π *Public Housing*
Public housing schemes will be adjusted to keep them fair and inclusive for all, and ensure flats remain accessible and affordable for Singaporeans of all income groups.
More new HDB flats will be built in existing estates, like in Dawson. Such flats will naturally be in greater demand. Their launch prices and resale prices will reflect that.
π *Support for ageing population*
The Government is also making special efforts to adapt HDB estates and flats to serve a rapidly ageing population.
Estates will have more visible signage and designs, as well as more pedestrian-friendly zones and rest points. Community spaces will also be improved, with more active ageing centres built.
There will also be extra help for some older workers who have not built up enough Central Provident Fund (CPF) savings for retirement.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-special-bond-that-makes-singapore-exceptional-pm-lee
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/public-housing-schemes-to-be-adjusted-older-workers-to-get-help-with-cpf-retirement-savings-pm-lee
πhttps://www.pmo.gov.sg/Newsroom/National-Day-Message-2023
10/08/2023, 4:03 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Will like the Government to consider increase the income eligibility for BTO flats for young couples or even consider for Singaporeans, there are no income eligibility restriction to apply for BTO flats.
2. The reasons being :-
a. When a young couple 1st apply for the BTO flats, their combine income are below the income eligibility and thus are qualified to apply for the BTO flats. But most of the young couples are not successful in the 1st try. I was told that some have been doing the 7 tries to apply for the BTO flats and still not successful.
By the time the young couples managed to get into the queue, their combined income would have exceeded the income eligibility and can no longer apply for the BTO flats - this is unfair to these young couples - and are forced to buy private condos that they will have difficulties in financing.
b. Young couples could have a high combine income at the time of applying for the BTO flats and may not qualified. But a high income career is not always a given - as disruptive tech, AI and other career disruptors like workplace discrimination or other factors could have disrupted the jobs of the young couples and the income can drastically drop.
Hence forcing Singaporeans young couples to buy private condo or apartment - instead of BTO flats - will make young couples stressful - especially in mid-career they lose their jobs and income.
Hence I will like to suggest that irregardless of income level, all Singaporeans couple should be allowed to apply for BTO flats - because private condos are not cheap easily cost a millions. A BTO flats are also not cheap - just below $1 million for good locations and amenities.
c. Hence to encourage young couples to marry and to have children - young couples should be made easily to own BTO flats - and not forced them to take up private properties that can be unaffordable - if there are mid-career crisis - as now stable career and jobs are not a guarantee.
Else young couples will be discouraged to have more babies with so much uncertainties ahead.
10/08/2023, 4:05 pm - +Rama: Means testing to be lowered!?
10/08/2023, 4:06 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Remove mean testing for all Singaporeans for applying to bto flats.
That is all Singaporeans youn couples can apply for BTO flats irregardless of income. <This message was edited>
10/08/2023, 4:09 pm - +Smiley face: Some are choosy over estate, facing off the flats and which floors are available?
Proximity to the workplace, schools and transportations etc
10/08/2023, 4:12 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Eg I come across 2 graduates couples working in a bank.
Their combine income exceed their income eligibility to apply for a BTO flat.
2. They however feel that they will be unable to finance a private condo.
3. Hence they postpone their marriage.
10/08/2023, 4:13 pm - +Smiley face: So what is the proposed adjustment of these income issues?
Baseline onwards?
10/08/2023, 4:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: Range income $3000 to $6000 per spouse. In mature
Range income $2000 to $4000 per spouse. In non mature
Hard cash spent on expenses and give allowance parent or loan study.
10/08/2023, 4:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>
10/08/2023, 4:15 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
4. Now I heard that the woman resign from the bank and looking for other jobs - so that their combine income fall in order to qualify to apply for BTO flats.
Wonder why policy need people to take such drastic steps in their career?
If they are both Singaporeans, they should be allowed to apply for a BTO flat and start a family and have babies.
The unnecessary restrictions will just make people postpone marriage and have babies.
10/08/2023, 4:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: If they have save hard cash to pay BtO by 50% down payment then mins income will be less burden
10/08/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
No baseline.
As long as they are Singaporeans they qualify.
10/08/2023, 4:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore need to adjust salary up. Basically on min purchase housing
10/08/2023, 4:19 pm - +Smiley face: How about Bank?
10/08/2023, 4:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: Harder because of interest rate all time high followed by FED hike
10/08/2023, 4:20 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
10/08/2023, 4:21 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
10/08/2023, 4:21 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
10/08/2023, 4:21 pm - +Frankie Wee: How do they apply HFE won’t approval them income mins
10/08/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The income eligibility criteria is flaw at the point of application of BTO flats.
Who can guarantee that young couples will earn high combined income throughout their work life?
Today they may have high income, the next day they may lose it - as jobs are so disruptive nowadays.
Hence forcing young couples to buy private property because their income eligibility don't qualify for BTO flats - is unfair to these young couples - because no one can guarantee their jobs and income are forever high income.
As long as they are Singaporeans, they should qualify for BTO flats.
10/08/2023, 4:22 pm - +Smiley face: Future incomes and Continuous employment...
10/08/2023, 4:23 pm - +Frankie Wee: Bank loan vs HDB loan
10/08/2023, 4:23 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
And these uncertainty will just make young couples - postpone marriage and have more children - it will backfire on the population TFR.
10/08/2023, 4:23 pm - +Frankie Wee: Most of them HDB loan more safe than bank loan
10/08/2023, 4:24 pm - +KL: depend a lot of ppl move to bank loan in 2020 when bank hit 1% now they cant move back to HDB loan
10/08/2023, 4:24 pm - +KL: So they will get issue sooner or later
10/08/2023, 4:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: HDB transaction sale index followed resale sold almost half million dollars windfall when new land building BTO from start price
10/08/2023, 4:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: If resale sold $2m HDB then bto start priced $800k would hurt ppl income mins
10/08/2023, 4:29 pm - +Smiley face: https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/infohub/educational-resources/3-differences-between-hdb-loan-and-bank-loan#:~:text=If%20you%20would%20like%20to,bank%20loan%20for%20your%20mortgage.
10/08/2023, 4:29 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Also when a young couples married and have children, the mother may have to resign and look after the babies.
Then their combine income drop - and if they are forced to finance the higher price private condo - their stress level go up.
But if they qualify for the BTO flat that are less pricey, they can continue to finance the BTO flat.
So why introduce income eligibility criteria for BTO flat and stress up the young couples if government seriously want to boost marriage and encourage young couples to have more children?
If they are Singaporeans, shouldn't be BTO flats make available to them irregardless of income level?
10/08/2023, 4:35 pm - +~L: If they are higher earners they don'
10/08/2023, 4:35 pm - +~L: don't need the subsidies housing - should keep that available for lower earners.
10/08/2023, 4:35 pm - +Smiley face: So what are the gauges to quantify what is affordable housing?
Location compared to private or EC or Condos?
Size of flats compared to the nearest EC or Condos ?
Cost Half or less ?
10/08/2023, 4:36 pm - +~L: Don't need to resign when having a baby - many families get a helper, or just take maternity leave, or get help from the family.
10/08/2023, 4:37 pm - +Smiley face: Single income, 1 kid or 2 kids?
Double incomes, 1 kid or more?
Double incomes no kid?
10/08/2023, 4:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: Work hard and harder keep on move income earn support family
10/08/2023, 4:37 pm - +Smiley face: Work life balancing....?
10/08/2023, 4:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: Balance correct and mind health come first
10/08/2023, 4:40 pm - +Smiley face: Cash, condos, car...?
10/08/2023, 4:41 pm - +Smiley face: To some, do these mean Balanced?
10/08/2023, 4:44 pm - +Smiley face: What are the jobs of the future?
Just like the Chinese kinder rhyme of "the three exceptional mice" (“δΈεͺθιΌ ”……θ·εΎεΏ«，θ·εΎεΏ«，δΈεͺ沑ζηΌη，δΈ€εͺ沑ζθ³ζ΅，ηε₯ζͺ，ηε₯ζͺ！)...
10/08/2023, 4:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: How about Ai take over human job and how we should get adjust salary when there is sale rising price
10/08/2023, 4:55 pm - +Smiley face: The growth and lifespan of any tree is asymmetric same for homo sapiens. A million years of truth and acknowledgement.
To understand the high, the low, the depth and the breathe will allow the arborists to trim each tree to a more sustainable shape and shade in order to withstand any uncertainties whether is a future climate change or a sudden change in the quality of the soil underneath these trees. To not forget to dig below the surface to assess the origin quality and the strata of the soil at depth and it is world difference from the above; an ecosystem of roots and transition of water and essential minerals from a foot long to more than a mile of rooting in three dimensions.
The Characteristic of becoming the Hyperion tree in midst of the sequoia forest, is never easy, an uniquely one in a million trees? So what's underneath it? Above all, no living things can escape mother's nature order like a severe storm or a strike of lightning!...
10/08/2023, 4:56 pm - +Smiley face: "The Future of the Human Capital: A New Eclosion of the Chrysalis World"...
10/08/2023, 4:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: Maybe 2030 is ready changed
10/08/2023, 4:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>
10/08/2023, 5:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Young and older keep on learning new skills with AI or new position
I would said accounting or retailer position no longer available
10/08/2023, 5:01 pm - +Smiley face: "The bigger a problem is the more we need the highest definition and through repetition and refinement all known knowledge of the liberal arts, the sciences and the technologies of the last 10,000 years with the help of AI; the previous, the present and the prospective solutions to solve or to resolve all challenges; likewise the derivative of all innovations. All said, these consolidations of the knowledgeable will be the largest universal data sets known to mankind since ancient Mesopotamia; it not a question of when but how soon? And that's the final countdown of the ultimate winners and losers of this game of counting, ratio of tangibles and intangible, and the homo economicus: all becoming possible!"
- - anonymity
10/08/2023, 5:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: I am positive accepting new learning and age is no issue.
10/08/2023, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: The New Dawn of Skills & Jobs!
Transformation, whenever this might singular word appears it means BIG CHANGES!
The old mantra of structure comes before form is the sour point of higher unemployment rates across the age group of working adults and more concerning is the young graduates who may not be equipped with the correct tools to handle this coming big change at all workplaces!...
10/08/2023, 5:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: 2030 I don’t know how is look alike future
10/08/2023, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: Great! Keep it going! Frankie
10/08/2023, 5:03 pm - +Smiley face: Before 2030!
Technologies and generative AI are improving every few months...x times
10/08/2023, 5:03 pm - +Rama: Likewise
10/08/2023, 5:05 pm - +Smiley face: Great! Andrew!
10/08/2023, 5:05 pm - +Smiley face: How to chart yourself and compete with others?
There are needs to see what others are spending on their people and the physical infrastructures in order to draw a preliminary chart of your future progressions. In the areas of technologies and manufacturing, there are five components of concerns that is e-commerce, logistics, technologies, digitisations and AI, and the overall trades of any nation....
10/08/2023, 5:06 pm - +Smiley face: That's what Michael Porter will say again, "the competitive nature of nations!"...
10/08/2023, 5:11 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. To sum up, as long as Government need to do well in the following areas, then Singapore future will be assured :-
a. Jobs - as long as people have a stable high income jobs - to ensure they can pay for their housing, their cost of living, housing and retirement.
b. Housing - ensure all Singaporeans (regardless of income) to have access to BTO flats..
c. Cost of living - income able to cope with high cost of living and yet able to save for retirement.
d. Healthcare - have sufficient money to fund their healthcare.
Then Government will be assured that People will continue to support the Government.
2. The challenges are :-
a. Jobs - can be increasingly disruptive due to disruptive tech, AI, age discrimination and other job disruptors.
b. Housing - I can see from my eyes that young couples seriously have problem bidding for their BTO flats - especially those near the parent's home - that is important to take care of the grandchildren.
Also, the income eligibilty criteria may make the young couples disqualified for BTO flats - and have to buy a high price private properties.
Couple with no guarantee stable jobs - due to threat of disruptive tech -- it will just add to the stress of the young couples who are planning marriage and have children.
10/08/2023, 5:21 pm - +~L: and Education... we need a more flexible and adaptable approach to Education. Learning by Rote and Memorising Facts is already become quite useless!
10/08/2023, 5:23 pm - +Smiley face: All these good social policies need a large amount of Money to drive through the ground. The alternative to fund these supports is via indirect taxes however given the headwinds of the current economic environments, it's tough to tax and tax it over and over like a "crushing can" !
It seems more so today and going into the next four quarters of the global economies outlook that the chance of a balance sheet recession will likely to happen sooner...things will slow down!
10/08/2023, 5:23 pm - +Smiley face: Change of time and tides...
10/08/2023, 5:28 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Sounds good but not practical.
Without setting salary limits, the situation wl become worse as more of those who earn higher income & can afford to buy condos, may outstrip those who just manage to meet the reqt.
And thus, those who r just under the limit may get pushed out of their chance to buy one.
An alternative wud be to adjust the ceiling limits with the current system
Or ....
Create a diff balloting system (somewhat like previous primary school reg balloting system),
whereby ther r 2 queues for 2 diff qualifying income limits.
Those who meet the lower income limit wl get a chance to ballot first, then the next tier of higher income limit wl get a turn.
In this way, all Singaporeans (as u propose), wl get a chance to buy a flat.
Something like tt.
π€ͺ
10/08/2023, 5:29 pm - +Smiley face: Differentiation strategy of allocating housings....
10/08/2023, 5:30 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
If young couples who are very affluent and want to live high living - they will buy private property anyway instead of applying for BTO flats.
Other high income earners who genuine want a home to raise a family and children - without having to commit high financial outlay to save for their retirement - they should be allowed to apply for the BTO flat - and not let unnecessary restrictions - stop them from doing so.
Because no one can guarantee their continuous income.
If they are Singaporeans, why discriminate against them?
10/08/2023, 5:31 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>
10/08/2023, 5:33 pm - +Smiley face: Cut it to 1 sigma.
10/08/2023, 5:36 pm - +Smiley face: Plato would be astounded...?
10/08/2023, 5:42 pm - +~L: The restrictions are there to allow lower income families access to housing, whereas the higher earning have more options. The restrictions are not unnecessary, there is a limited supply.
10/08/2023, 5:42 pm - +KL: frankly, i do agree w you. this policies will not help too many ppl. As there is another layer of restriction . I do think the policies will only benefit nation, banks and further push up the property prices. The middle layer and lower layer will be hit again in long run . Seem to me they trying to create the alchemist economics ( Using fiscal policies ) again to create additional GDP using housing. At one hand , it seem certain property price will keep going up . why they keep asking old ppl to give up part of their lease ? <This message was edited>
10/08/2023, 5:42 pm - +~L: They are not being discriminated against because they are Singaporean. The limited supply is being made available to lower income Singaporeans.
10/08/2023, 6:03 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. So that means that these higher income groups pay higher taxes to finance the lower income groups to public housing - but they themselves are being discriminated from access to public housing?
2. When they do well they are force to buy private house, but what happens mid way they lose their jobs and income?
They are laden with housing loans to pay and yet have to pay for cost of living - are there government assistance to them?
The answer is no - no town council rebate, no electricity bill rebate, gst voucher are cut for this group - and they are left to fend for themselves.
3. Do you think this group will be confident to raise a family and have more children when their future is uncertain?
4. Can the government and anyone guarantee their jobs and income?
If cannot, why government are not allowing them to bid for the BTO flat as other Singaporeans are entitled to? <This message was edited>
10/08/2023, 6:03 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
In his National Day Message, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong spoke of the challenges that Singapore faces as it turns 58. PM highlighted the close bond between the Government and the people as key to Singapore navigating safely in a troubled world.
*π¬ What are your views on Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's National Day message? What more can be done to support the ageing population and improve provision of affordable housing?*
π *Public Housing*
Public housing schemes will be adjusted to keep them fair and inclusive for all, and ensure flats remain accessible and affordable for Singaporeans of all income groups.
More new HDB flats will be built in existing estates, like in Dawson. Such flats will naturally be in greater demand. Their launch prices and resale prices will reflect that.
π *Support for ageing population*
The Government is also making special efforts to adapt HDB estates and flats to serve a rapidly ageing population.
Estates will have more visible signage and designs, as well as more pedestrian-friendly zones and rest points. Community spaces will also be improved, with more active ageing centres built.
There will also be extra help for some older workers who have not built up enough Central Provident Fund (CPF) savings for retirement.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-special-bond-that-makes-singapore-exceptional-pm-lee
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/public-housing-schemes-to-be-adjusted-older-workers-to-get-help-with-cpf-retirement-savings-pm-lee
πhttps://www.pmo.gov.sg/Newsroom/National-Day-Message-2023
10/08/2023, 6:05 pm - +Smiley face: HDB resale prices rise at slower pace of 0.3% in July; sales volume bounces back
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/hdb-resale-prices-up-by-slower-pace-of-03-in-july-volume-bounces-back
10/08/2023, 6:07 pm - +Smiley face: COE prices hit new highs for big cars, Open category; premiums up across the board
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/record-coe-prices-for-big-cars-open-category-premiums-up-across-the-board
10/08/2023, 6:11 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think that mean higher income but they taken loan to repayment other things like study loan or investment. They buy bto instead of EC when they are at risk EC
10/08/2023, 6:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: Financial very stable to pay
It’s up to ppl wish purchase bto
I believe if they choice EC without loan or fully paid.
10/08/2023, 6:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think look at charts π how much they can borrow bank at risk
10/08/2023, 6:16 pm - +~L: Why are they forced to buy Private housing? They can buy resale HDB, or go on a waiting list.
10/08/2023, 6:17 pm - +~L: Why do you think a family on a higher income has a more unstable/uncertain future than a lower income family? If a higher income family suffers a financial loss then they become a lower income family and are protected.
10/08/2023, 6:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Household income ceiling
To apply for a BTO flat, your household income must fall within certain limits. As of May 2023, the income ceiling for most BTO projects is S$14,000 per month. It's important to note that your income will be assessed based on the average monthly income over the past 12 months.7 May 2023
10/08/2023, 6:18 pm - +~L: 4. because they can afford resale HDB and we need to keep housing supply available for those who cannot afford resale hdb,
10/08/2023, 6:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: The more housing grants they get to help them less burden
10/08/2023, 6:18 pm - +~L: Yes, this seem to be a reasonably high level of income.
10/08/2023, 6:18 pm - +Sh Koh: If committed PTE ppty already...they are not as protected.
10/08/2023, 6:19 pm - +~L: Sure, but a higher income family will still have more money than a lower income family, even with the grants...
10/08/2023, 6:19 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That's why, don't place restrictions on Singaporeans.
Let them choose what is the financial outlay that are comfortable with in housing.
Government cannot assume that their current high income is guaranteed - as no can guarantee their job is stable and their income is guaranteed.
If young couples want to choose EC or private housing - that is their choice and the risks they want to take.
But artificially assuming others have such continuous high income at the point of application - is flaw and it will just deter such young couples from marriage or have more babies.
10/08/2023, 6:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: High income don’t get grant or little grant
10/08/2023, 6:19 pm - +~L: If they bought a private property then they can sell. They will not be worse off than a lower income family.
10/08/2023, 6:19 pm - +Sh Koh: Those higher income level shld be also granted opportunity to purchase certain BTO. Maybe those of higher price one.
10/08/2023, 6:19 pm - +~L: because they don't need it...
10/08/2023, 6:20 pm - +~L: Sure, maybe there can be a dual level scheme according to income.
10/08/2023, 6:20 pm - +~L: Remember that all the grants are effectively from public money. You give more grants to the wealthy that means higher taxes for everyone, or reduced services for everyone.
10/08/2023, 6:21 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t think Singapore ppl have richer
I believe 70% mid to low income group
30% less rich but live with family or break down financially
10/08/2023, 6:21 pm - +Sh Koh: Income shld not be the only criteria to determine eligibility. Cos some.may choose a prudent lifestyle and not always in rat race.
10/08/2023, 6:23 pm - +Sh Koh: And it also allows financial more enable to live on same living accommodation.
10/08/2023, 6:23 pm - +~L: True - maybe we need to look at the numbers here. How many people are benefiting and what their incomes levels are. How many are 'missing out' and what their income levels are. Numbers tell the story.
10/08/2023, 6:26 pm - +Sh Koh: The present grant sys already consider that.
10/08/2023, 6:31 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes.
This makes more sense.
10/08/2023, 6:32 pm - +~L: Also valid - what criteria options are there?
10/08/2023, 6:39 pm - +Sh Koh: Perhaps those who exceed the income ceiling is subjected to PHE criteria and no purchase of 2nd ppty after MOP for any scheme they use to apply fpr.BTO.
10/08/2023, 6:46 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
10/08/2023, 6:55 pm - +Smiley face: Buy what you can afford to repay the mortgage. Measure it by taking a 10/15 years timeline of repayment
At the end of the entire loan, you will have a sense of pride and achievement and a renewed meaning of years of hard work.
From there on, you can opt to right-size your next home.
The key is the service of your housing loan, a stable stream of income and avoid any disruption along this journey of owning your place, aka home!
Have faith in our public housing system, with 63 years of HDB; as citizens, we should be comfortable to expect nothing short of unaffordable flats or irrational policies along the years ahead. No surprises and stability is the key for all of us!
Happy National Day to All!
10/08/2023, 6:56 pm - +Rama: Live within your means. Don't envy your neighbour!
10/08/2023, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, Andrew! What a great way to end today's conversation....THANK YOU!
AVOID ENVY!
10/08/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>
10/08/2023, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
10/08/2023, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
=====
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